VoidWatch = Abyssea Without Good Atmas and It Sucks

[svengalis]

I always said to the people who wanted a challenge to go fight Abyssea mobs without Atmas because I remember how hard Abyssea was before Atmas. Now we have Voidwatch were we are basically fighting the same mobs in Abyssea but without Atmas. Bastok path is pretty easy. Sandy path is not that bad although that behemoth can get the best of you if you are not careful. Windy path just plain sucks. Lord Asag and Voidwrought have to be some of the most annoying NM in the game. And then there's the Jeuno path, which I thought the T1 were pretty easy until we got to Agathos.

Seriously I don't know what you "hardcore" players find fun about spending hours setting up alliances sometimes waiting for just one person to start a fight just to wipe to minutes later. SO MUCH FUN. Abyssea = Fun, Outside of Abyssea is lame.

I totally left out the terrible Atmacites that cost ridiculous amounts of cruor to upgrade.

[Arcon]

I totally left out the [..] Atmacites that cost ridiculous amounts of cruor to upgrade.

That's the only thing I can really agree with. No idea how some people manage to have millions of cruor to spend, but I'm still struggling for it. And 500k~1M per Atmacite is just pushing it.

Apart from that (and the drop distribution system) Voidwatch isn't bad. I don't know what you "casual" players find fun about having the game handed to you on a silver platter. Quotation marks for sarcasm, because I consider myself a casual player, and even I got fed up with Abyssea really quickly.

MMOGs are just that, massively multiplayer. While there's some solo content, there should be things you can't achieve with just a WHM mule.

[Tamoa]

I have no idea how you manage to wipe to Voidwrought at level 95. My ls kills that thing in 2-3 mins with less than a full alliance and capped lights too.

While I agree that upgrading atmacites is expensive cruor-wise, not all of them are worthwhile to upgrade, you know? I have 3 atmacites @ lvl 10 and currently sitting on 800k-ish cruor. Only use cells for the fights that can drop something you want. Join/make a cruor party if you find yourself really low on cruor.

Or alternatively, if you really dislike Voidwatch that much - just don't do it?

[Zaknafein]

Game is finally headed back in the direction it belongs in. Several issues with the loot distribution need fixing. Aside from that VW is very well designed. Challenging fights that require a multitude of jobs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

VoidWatch = Abyssea Without Good Atmas and It SucksYou relaize that the flavor is abyssea leeching into our dimention right? And you do get good atma. Go level them.

[Sparthos]

Game is finally headed back in the direction it belongs in. Several issues with the loot distribution need fixing. Aside from that VW is very well designed. Challenging fights that require a multitude of jobs.

Very well designed is a lottery system that randomly hands out rewards. Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.

The battle system itself is reused from ANNMs/Fay Augments.

[Greatguardian]

The fights are fun. The rewards are p cool. The loot system can get exceedingly frustrating, but I have no qualms with the battles or the concept itself.

The loot system has its issues, for sure, but it also solves a lot of the issues caused by older Endgame loot systems. Ninja-lotting is no longer possible. DKP and point/council systems are no longer necessary. Linkshells in general are significantly easier to manage. Instead of making leaders/administrators run around updating their Microsoft Excel spreadsheets every night, calculating attendance %'s, and dealing with the inevitable whining about X, Y, or Z drops, shell leaders are free to concentrate only on the battles themselves.

Voidwatch's loot system effectively removed politics from FFXI. I dunno how many Endgame shells the average poster here has run, but to me that's a damned nice change.

[Zarchery]

I don't like it either. That's why I don't do it.

Remember folks, just because new content is introduced doesn't mean it is mandatory.

[Monchat]

I always said to the people who wanted a challenge to go fight Abyssea mobs without Atmas because I remember how hard Abyssea was before Atmas. Now we have Voidwatch were we are basically fighting the same mobs in Abyssea but without Atmas. Bastok path is pretty easy. Sandy path is not that bad although that behemoth can get the best of you if you are not careful. Windy path just plain sucks. Lord Asag and Voidwrought have to be some of the most annoying NM in the game. And then there's the Jeuno path, which I thought the T1 were pretty easy until we got to Agathos.

Seriously I don't know what you "hardcore" players find fun about spending hours setting up alliances sometimes waiting for just one person to start a fight just to wipe to minutes later. SO MUCH FUN. Abyssea = Fun, Outside of Abyssea is lame.

I totally left out the terrible Atmacites that cost ridiculous amounts of cruor to upgrade.

If you don't have atma you can just use the cheats SE gave you: earthen armor, perfect defense and sentinel's scherzo. I cleared all T1~T3 city + voidwrougth @lv90 with MNK/NINx2 BRD WHM SMN SMN with a basic zerg using EA+scherzo from 100 to 50% and double perfect defense starting at 50%. Recharging 2H takes only 10min in abyssea too. Those 3 abilities are gamebreaking, and the atmacites are the most useless crap they came up with in VW.

[Greatguardian]

Atmacite of Discipline is retardedly broken. Miser's Roll + Discipline gives most 2-handers and Ranged attackers (basically anyone with an X-hit) a 2-hit WS build.

65+ TP return on Wildfire is pretty neat.

[cidbahamut]

The fights are fun. The rewards are p cool. The loot system can get exceedingly frustrating, but I have no qualms with the battles or the concept itself.

The loot system has its issues, for sure, but it also solves a lot of the issues caused by older Endgame loot systems. Ninja-lotting is no longer possible. DKP and point/council systems are no longer necessary. Linkshells in general are significantly easier to manage. Instead of making leaders/administrators run around updating their Microsoft Excel spreadsheets every night, calculating attendance %'s, and dealing with the inevitable whining about X, Y, or Z drops, shell leaders are free to concentrate only on the battles themselves.

Voidwatch's loot system effectively removed politics from FFXI. I dunno how many Endgame shells the average poster here has run, but to me that's a damned nice change.

It presents its own set of problems though. Unless it's a Voidwatch only shell, leaders are still dealing with attendance spreadsheets to track DKP which can be spent during other events. The incentive to do Voidwatch is underwhelming at best. You cannot put in your time at all LS events and roll in thinking "tonight I'm gonna blow it all on that cool piece of armor I've wanted for days/weeks/months". Now you might roll in and realize that your linkshell isn't doing Voidwatch anymore because people got tired of playing the lottery or enough people got lucky and now the leadership has determined the event to be a waste of time. You're that one guy who still hasn't got a body piece? Too bad, the shell isn't going to spam several dozen fights just so you can walk away with more logs when they could be off at another event getting loot for everyone.

The leadership in my own shell has expressed frustration with the event and finds it difficult to integrate into the rest of the system. They all love the event, but the loot system is problematic for them, not to mention for everyone else who wants a body piece.

The loot system isn't a fix so much as it is a completely new set of problems to deal with.

[Greatguardian]

It presents its own set of problems though. Unless it's a Voidwatch only shell, leaders are still dealing with attendance spreadsheets to track DKP which can be spent during other events. The incentive to do Voidwatch is underwhelming at best. You cannot put in your time at all LS events and roll in thinking "tonight I'm gonna blow it all on that cool piece of armor I've wanted for days/weeks/months". Now you might roll in and realize that your linkshell isn't doing Voidwatch anymore because people got tired of playing the lottery or enough people got lucky and now the leadership has determined the event to be a waste of time. You're that one guy who still hasn't got a body piece? Too bad, the shell isn't going to spam several dozen fights just so you can walk away with more logs when they could be off at another event getting loot for everyone.

The leadership in my own shell has expressed frustration with the event and finds it difficult to integrate into the rest of the system. They all love the event, but the loot system is problematic for them, not to mention for everyone else who wants a body piece.

The loot system isn't a fix so much as it is a completely new set of problems to deal with.

Fair enough. The way I decided to handle this was to simply create a separate shell for Voidwatch, which I lead concurrently with my sack in my "Everything else" linkshell. Our event schedules don't coincide at all, so there's no conflict there, and the memberships are entirely independent of one another. People can be a member of both shells, or just one, it makes no difference to me.

Even if my "Everything Else" linkshell decides to start doing Voidwatch as well for the members who can't make my runs, it doesn't really bother me. I'd still go. It's not like I'm short on Voidstones, or unable to buy Dust if I was. Though one of the primary reasons that they haven't yet is because of how much Abyssea and Voidwatch screwed with their loot system. We had a homebrewed database system that our webmaster came up with that worked spectacularly for us for years. It just became a waste of time to do things as a large group in Abyssea, so the system was never able to properly adapt to it.

I don't think it's really even feasible to apply old FFXI rhetoric like points to Voidwatch. Those systems were created in the first place because of crap like 18 member alliances spamming fights to see 1 drop every week or two. They took a bad system and tried to make it equitable for all of the people involved. When everyone has a fair and equitable chance to start with, such systems are unnecessary. If you don't get loot, it's not because Sackholder A is a douchebag or because Hume F B likes to cyber with the Shellholder. It's just because you were unlucky.

With that said, ideally I'd like to see an Einherjar-esque system overall. Being able to walk away from 50 fights with nothing is terribly disheartening. Points for lower tier drops and NM-specific drops for high tier items, with a general drop rate increase at capped lights would be ideal for me.

[Malamasala]

I've always wanted a system where you gather points, and then use them to augment armors. Nothing says "awesome" as a system that lets you do exactly what you wanted to do.

[Reiterpallasch]

Voidwatch: Challenging yet realistically doable content that people from the easy-mode abyssea age call hard.

It's really no different than content that we had at 75. If you suck, your alliance of gimps is gonna get roflstomped by something a party of skilled players can take down no problem.

[Alhanelem]

Due to it's loot system, there's absolutely no point in having DKP or any kind of point/attendance system. All the loot is random anyway.

Still, to say Voidwatch sucks just because you don't have 100 atmas that make you super powerful is naive at best. It sounds to me like "Voidwatch is bad because it's harder than abyssea."

[Mahoro]

It presents its own set of problems though. Unless it's a Voidwatch only shell, leaders are still dealing with attendance spreadsheets to track DKP which can be spent during other events. The incentive to do Voidwatch is underwhelming at best. You cannot put in your time at all LS events and roll in thinking "tonight I'm gonna blow it all on that cool piece of armor I've wanted for days/weeks/months". Now you might roll in and realize that your linkshell isn't doing Voidwatch anymore because people got tired of playing the lottery or enough people got lucky and now the leadership has determined the event to be a waste of time. You're that one guy who still hasn't got a body piece? Too bad, the shell isn't going to spam several dozen fights just so you can walk away with more logs when they could be off at another event getting loot for everyone.

The leadership in my own shell has expressed frustration with the event and finds it difficult to integrate into the rest of the system. They all love the event, but the loot system is problematic for them, not to mention for everyone else who wants a body piece.

The loot system isn't a fix so much as it is a completely new set of problems to deal with.

This is exactly my viewpoint as a leader in my own shell. I LOVE the fights and the event itself. It requires a varied alliance setup, gets everyone coordinating and calling out procs (since there can be up to 8 procs at a time), and involves more than just "WAR work on Red, BLM/BLU work on yellow, etc." As a SH, it's great to see us working as a unit, and the battles are just the right amount of challenge after easymode Abyssea.

That being said, I HATE the loot system with a passion. It has been hard to integrate into our normal events too. All the non-rare/ex items worth over a certain amount are handed to the leaders for DKP lotting and selling for the LS bank. But now it has gotten to the point where we are only working on getting people clears for the warps/CS's and we only need rare/ex gear. Of course, that is the gear that is left to chance. So Voidwatch has caused some DKP inflation in our shell, because members get credit for coming but no DKP is coming OUT of the system. So we have to go back to a steady rotation of event type of VW/Abyssea/Neo-Dynamis. People will earn DKP in all 3 types of events, but only really spend it in Abyssea/Neo-Dyna.

[Darkwizardzin]

Due to it's loot system, there's absolutely no point in having DKP or any kind of point/attendance system. All the loot is random anyway.

Still, to say Voidwatch sucks just because you don't have 100 atmas that make you super powerful is naive at best. It sounds to me like "Voidwatch is bad because it's harder than abyssea."

Its not just you... many people responding to this (myself included) feel the same way.

Sounds to me like the op needs to just play better (and help his teamates get better).

[Greatguardian]

This is exactly my viewpoint as a leader in my own shell. I LOVE the fights and the event itself. It requires a varied alliance setup, gets everyone coordinating and calling out procs (since there can be up to 8 procs at a time), and involves more than just "WAR work on Red, BLM/BLU work on yellow, etc." As a SH, it's great to see us working as a unit, and the battles are just the right amount of challenge after easymode Abyssea.

That being said, I HATE the loot system with a passion. It has been hard to integrate into our normal events too. All the non-rare/ex items worth over a certain amount are handed to the leaders for DKP lotting and selling for the LS bank. But now it has gotten to the point where we are only working on getting people clears for the warps/CS's and we only need rare/ex gear. Of course, that is the gear that is left to chance. So Voidwatch has caused some DKP inflation in our shell, because members get credit for coming but no DKP is coming OUT of the system. So we have to go back to a steady rotation of event type of VW/Abyssea/Neo-Dynamis. People will earn DKP in all 3 types of events, but only really spend it in Abyssea/Neo-Dyna.

This is essentially why we chose to divide the two. Some systems just aren't meant to be integrated.

[Kensagaku]

I personally love Voidwatch. I personally blow most of my scheduling points on it. xD My shell is an overall lowman shell (5-7 people at an event on average, with very rarely 9-10), and even so we have no problem getting through Voidwatch. It helps that our leader is a particularly epic PLD, but even so without the rest of the shell being epic isn't going to cover things. We generally go PLD + WHM (dualbox), SMN, BLMx1-2, RDM, BRD. Yes, this leaves us out on the JA procs and a fair number of WS procs but even so, probably 7-8/10 fights we're capping lights anyway.

Yes, some fights are tricky lowman. Our first Lord Asag, we weren't prepared, and when he charmed the tank we fumbled and wiped at ~15%. Second time was much smoother, because we adapted our strategy to it. Since it was hard to stun charm, I'd simply keep Ramuh out unless procing a BP (rarely did we need Earthen Armor for that fight, and I was outside party for it anyway) and toss out a Shock Squall to stun it for a bit. From there, the BLMs and I would keep a stun order to slow him down until the tank was good to go. We repeated this several times and won with ease.

But even lowman, many of the fights are simple as long as you plan and change your strategy to fit the battle and the people you have with you. For example, when we did Celaeno at first, we were getting torn apart with a melee-heavy setup. Ranged setup (RNGs, CORs, BLMs etc) didn't go as well either, though we did win. We switched to a magic setup, stun the Encumbrance move, and for the most part have not had much trouble since then. The principle applies generally.

In other words, this new content is properly challenging and certainly something to put effort into. The loot system needs to be reworked as everyone said (though after going 1/3 on a Strendu Ring, I'm happy anyway), but beyond that, it's something you actually have to work on. All I'm getting from the OP here is: "Voidwatch is harder than Abyssea, I want my godlike powers back so that I don't have to plan beyond maybe a single stun and some procs."

[Chriscoffey]

This reminds me of when the HNM LSs I joined could do fafnir (few minutes tops) and wyrms in 20-30 minutes (moderate party set ups) then seeing these "casuals" taking near an hour to kill the kings and HOURS to kill wyrms. If you want to play better do research and learn too.

This game isn't rocket science and part of a game's fun factor is overcoming it's challenges. It shouldn't be that you emo bitch and they make it baby mode just because you can't learn to get better. I think VW could have some decent potential if adjusted for some challenge. I still think the game is easy mode even with VW being how it is compared to before with all these damn adjustments.

EDIT: I really wish people could have played warrior 03 version and then play it today just for one example how far that job has came.

[Aliekber]

If they just put out 3 new Abyssea expansions every other year, it would probably be enough content to keep casuals satisfied for the rest of the game's lifetime. In this instance, I don't mean casual as in 'terrible player', but casual as in 'can't commit to regular events and deal with scheduling conflicts that come from requiring a group larger than a few players'. I still don't have everything I want from Abyssea, but not because I try and fail, but because I just haven't been able to spend the time necessary to get it all done (yet).

Voidwatch isn't for players like me (or, apparently, the OP), and that's fine. It would be nice if they could cater to both groups, though (although the Nyzul update stuff looks promising). Now that the template has been set, it's not like they couldn't just outsource any new Abyssea expansions, anyway.

[Lexin]

Oh no what are we gonna do there's no atma? /sarcasm off The fact I read people complain about how hard stuff is now and the drop rates are low is the reason I decided to sub again today. Loved the game pre-abyssea have not done much after.

[Soranika]

Well... not sure what to make of that. Sounds like a really horrible experience.

My only concern about VW is drop rate of anything of any real worth. I have about 1.3mil in cruor... which is only that low cause I drop a good 1.1mil on chocobo blinkers so I could by a 3mil item on the ah, but even before that I always had anywhere from 2.5mil to near 3mil in cruor. Considering the job I play in VW, I haven't even began to work on enriching atmacite. I don't brew either so I do literally have crour laying around for whan I really need it.

Crour investment in VW can also be met by using conquest points, imperial standing, or allied notes on the cells that multiply how much crour you get for completing them, especially if you don't spend much time in abyssea anymore. Honestly, there's nothing to complain about there if you're doing voidwatch on a regular basis now.

As for it being "Abyssea without good atma"... come now, abyssea spoiled you rotten. Be lucky we even have atmacite.

[Mirage]

Voidwatch sucks because it's "lol hold mob until max procs" and the retarded loot distribution. If those two were fixed, it might be pretty fun. The difficulty of the fights is a non-issue, IMO.

[svengalis]

If you don't have atma you can just use the cheats SE gave you: earthen armor, perfect defense and sentinel's scherzo. I cleared all T1~T3 city + voidwrougth @lv90 with MNK/NINx2 BRD WHM SMN SMN with a basic zerg using EA+scherzo from 100 to 50% and double perfect defense starting at 50%. Recharging 2H takes only 10min in abyssea too. Those 3 abilities are gamebreaking, and the atmacites are the most useless crap they came up with in VW.

Yeah try telling that to the scrubs you pick up in pick up groups. The thing I love about Abyssea is even with scrubs you could still win the fight.

[Zaknafein]

Very well designed is a lottery system that randomly hands out rewards. Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.



Game is finally headed back in the direction it belongs in. Several issues with the loot distribution need fixing. Aside from that VW is very well designed. Challenging fights that require a multitude of jobs.

Your reading comprehension is fantastic!


The battle system itself is reused from ANNMs/Fay Augments.

Having done many ANNM, and fairy fights I never found them anywhere near as exciting or challenging @75.

[Greatguardian]

Yeah try telling that to the scrubs you pick up in pick up groups.

I didn't see many people winning T3 Einherjar or Salvage with pickup groups at 75 either.

This is Endgame, son. Pickups don't cut it any more.

Edit because you edited your post, EDITWAR: If a pack of scrubs can kill it, I can solo it. There is absolutely no point in designing content so that you can throw a bunch of random scrubs at it and win. Instead of spending "hours" trying to shout for "useless scrubs" in port jeuno, find some friends or create a linkshell and do VW on a schedule with people who don't suck.

[svengalis]

I don't have an LS to do voidwatch. Hardly anyone does it. So therefore I have to rely on pickup groups. I know what to do but it's so hard to getting people in pick up groups who know how to play their jobs. VW needs to be more casual.... LOL I thought SE was moving away from tedious content but guess I was wrong.

[Zaknafein]

Go back to abyssea if you want casual. Otherwise listen to what the man said, and join or make a LS for big boy content. Whiner.

[Greatguardian]

Pick your definition of Casual. I'm extremely casual. I lead a Voidwatch linkshell and we crush that shit.

Voidwatch needs to be more "EASY"? Nah.

Players who need Easy shit still haven't finished Abyssea. They still don't have AF3+2, nor do they have Empyrean weapons. If they really need content to do, they have plenty just staring them in the face.

Voidwatch was made for the people who have mastered Abyssea, who have everything they want from it, and are thus solid enough to do harder content. If you're not on that level yet, stick to Abyssea. If you are, well you really need to fix your shit then because Voidwatch should not be an issue for you.

[Zarchery]

I don't have an LS to do voidwatch. Hardly anyone does it. So therefore I have to rely on pickup groups. I know what to do but it's so hard to getting people in pick up groups who know how to play their jobs. VW needs to be more casual.... LOL I thought SE was moving away from tedious content but guess I was wrong.

So DON'T DO VOIDWATCH. Everything in the game doesn't have to be catered to appease every player. Sky, Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Abyssea, Voidwatch, probably some stuff I'm missing. There's a lot out there, and you don't have to do it all. There's oodles of easy stuff you can do with pickup groups, but some people won't be satisfied until that encompasses everything.

[Aliekber]

Voidwatch was made for the people who have mastered Abyssea, who have everything they want from it, and are thus solid enough to do harder content. If you're not on that level yet, stick to Abyssea. If you are, well you really need to fix your shit then because Voidwatch should not be an issue for you.

If you've got the manpower for it, yeah. I can understand the frustration at, essentially, doing the same fights with a different proc mechanic, but now it requires more people (e.g. Bellphoebe now vs. Carabosse at 75 before anyone knew about atma are remarkably similar fights).

To borrow an example from a certain story, Abyssea is Lord of the Rings if Frodo was also a Jedi. Voidwatch is Frodo losing that power and going on the normal quest as it happens in the books. What (I'm assuming) many people would like to see instead is Frodo remain a Jedi, but give Sauron the Death Star--which in this analogy means keeping Abyssea's lowmannability and ease-of-access, but making the monsters themselves harder.

There are lots of ways they can do this, but the prime example would be adding mobs that do instant-death 40' AoE if anyone with Double Weakness gets on their hate list at all, preventing Apoc-zombieing.

Short version: easy-to-access but difficult lowman content tends to be superior to faceroll alliance content that requires a set schedule. Difficult alliance content for the super hardcores should be on the list, but difficult lowman content for the non-sucky casuals is another category whose interests it's good to serve.

[Greatguardian]

If you've got the manpower for it, yeah. I can understand the frustration at, essentially, doing the same fights with a different proc mechanic, but now it requires more people (e.g. Bellphoebe now vs. Carabosse at 75 before anyone knew about atma are remarkably similar fights).

To borrow an example from a certain story, Abyssea is Lord of the Rings if Frodo was also a Jedi. Voidwatch is Frodo losing that power and going on the normal quest as it happens in the books. What (I'm assuming) many people would like to see instead is Frodo remain a Jedi, but give Sauron the Death Star--which in this analogy means keeping Abyssea's lowmannability and ease-of-access, but making the monsters themselves harder.

There are lots of ways they can do this, but the prime example would be adding mobs that do instant-death 40' AoE if anyone with Double Weakness gets on their hate list at all, preventing Apoc-zombieing.

Short version: easy-to-access but difficult lowman content tends to be superior to faceroll alliance content that requires a set schedule. Difficult alliance content for the super hardcores should be on the list, but difficult lowman content for the non-sucky casuals is another category whose interests it's good to serve.

This is true, but I think you're really overstating the difficulty of Voidwatch. I transitioned into it from a 4-5 person group that finished a bunch of Empyreans. While opening up recruitment, we still completed all of Part 1 VW with 7-8 people. Even now we only have maybe 9 at events, as we're looking to expand the roster.

Voidwatch shouldn't take a full alliance aside from needing procs and, maybe, needing to faceroll T3 Part 2 NMs.

[Leonlionheart]

I have no idea how you manage to wipe to Voidwrought at level 95. My ls kills that thing in 2-3 mins with less than a full alliance and capped lights too.

While I agree that upgrading atmacites is expensive cruor-wise, not all of them are worthwhile to upgrade, you know? I have 3 atmacites @ lvl 10 and currently sitting on 800k-ish cruor. Only use cells for the fights that can drop something you want. Join/make a cruor party if you find yourself really low on cruor.

Or alternatively, if you really dislike Voidwatch that much - just don't do it?

Not everyone is your LS <_<;;; You guys and like 3 other LS's seem to have taken all the good EG players on Asura

Not to say that Voidwrought isn't stupidly easy, most of the time in any PUG I've been in the problem is that the 3 DD are doing too much damage.

@OP: Suck less

[Aliekber]

This is true, but I think you're really overstating the difficulty of Voidwatch. I transitioned into it from a 4-5 person group that finished a bunch of Empyreans. While opening up recruitment, we still completed all of Part 1 VW with 7-8 people. Even now we only have maybe 9 at events, as we're looking to expand the roster.

Voidwatch shouldn't take a full alliance aside from needing procs and, maybe, needing to faceroll T3 Part 2 NMs.

The 4-5 Empyreans is the main difference between your experience and mine, then, so I'll take what I saw with a grain of salt. The group I went with had (I believe) no Empyreans other than me, and I wasn't on my Empy job (Bronagi) because I was late and got put on WHM.

I'll probably give it another shot once my Empyrean static finishes everybody else's weapons and we move on to something else, since that is realistically the only time I regularly get on every week.

[Leonlionheart]

The 4-5 Empyreans is the main difference between your experience and mine, then, so I'll take what I saw with a grain of salt. The group I went with had (I believe) no Empyreans other than me, and I wasn't on my Empy job (Bronagi) because I was late and got put on WHM.

I'll probably give it another shot once my Empyrean static finishes everybody else's weapons and we move on to something else, since that is realistically the only time I regularly get on every week.

Having a good MDT set is probably twice as important than having an emp.

[Aliekber]

Having a good MDT set is probably twice as important than having an emp.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

[svengalis]

So DON'T DO VOIDWATCH. Everything in the game doesn't have to be catered to appease every player. Sky, Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Abyssea, Voidwatch, probably some stuff I'm missing. There's a lot out there, and you don't have to do it all. There's oodles of easy stuff you can do with pickup groups, but some people won't be satisfied until that encompasses everything.

Um I'm pretty much done with Abyssea so I don't have anything else to do why would you give me such dumb advice?

[svengalis]

Go back to abyssea if you want casual. Otherwise listen to what the man said, and join or make a LS for big boy content. Whiner.

I don't have the time or patience for to make an LS move along please.

[svengalis]

Having a good MDT set is probably twice as important than having an emp.

I second this I see people with Empyreans getting trashed with VW. Your weapon is of no use to you if you are on the ground dead.

[svengalis]

Pick your definition of Casual. I'm extremely casual. I lead a Voidwatch linkshell and we crush that shit.

Voidwatch needs to be more "EASY"? Nah.

Players who need Easy shit still haven't finished Abyssea. They still don't have AF3+2, nor do they have Empyrean weapons. If they really need content to do, they have plenty just staring them in the face.

Voidwatch was made for the people who have mastered Abyssea, who have everything they want from it, and are thus solid enough to do harder content. If you're not on that level yet, stick to Abyssea. If you are, well you really need to fix your shit then because Voidwatch should not be an issue for you.

Something that can be done with a small group: 6 people? in a couple of hours or less.

[Kensagaku]

...Honestly, given that your tank isn't an idiot you could probably cover a fair amount of Voidwatch with 6 in a few hours. Make sure they have a decent MDT set (Not saying Aegis PLD is a necessity, though it does make life easier) and have proper healing support (usually a competent WHM does fine on their own, though a RDM can help a LOT). Add some BLMs (1-2 should suffice for stun/damage/proc purposes) who have a decent trigger finger for stuns, and bring a BRD/SMN for Scherzo/Earthen Armor. The SMN can even provide damage support and with the right subjob (usually /SCH or /RDM) can help a little with support where needed.

Boom, 5-7 people with that setup, and assuming that all of them have moderately good gear (not exceptional, but I'm not talking full-teal BLMs either), then you shouldn't have a problem with the city paths. I can't say much for Jeuno/Zilart, my shell only unlocked access to Jeuno last time we did VW so we have yet to attempt it.

One of the "problems" I've noticed - and I emphasize this because it's not necessarily a problem for those groups that are set to handle it - is that a lot of VW setups are very melee-heavy. Sure, they're good for getting those JA/WS procs, don't get me wrong. But the problem is that they either feed TP, or they kill too fast for lights, or they just get killed by an AoE because they don't pay attention or can't handle something. As I've stated previously, a magic-focused setup tends to be a lot easier for a lower group, and usually when I go (my shell is lowman so we stick to this method for survival's sake) my group can usually cap lights via magic procs. Very rarely do we not have 2-4 High Vulnerable magic procs, and combine that with some good damage on Syncronic Blitz, and we get capped lights on just about everything most runs.

Maybe try a different setup; it could help if that's what's giving you trouble.

[Kimble]

You don't really need to make an LS to do VW well.

Have a good low man group? Find another good low man group and team up with them.

Have a few spots left over? Set a seacom saying what you and and what time you are going. Good players will actually check seacoms.

Last resort, then shout to fill those last spots. Put them in easy positions, (DD, BLM if not having to worry about stun).

Not everything in pick up is bad. Remember, if big game LS no longer exist, then that means there are plenty of good players around looking for a way to do VW. It also makes it nice because people don't feel pressure to go. They can come to what they want. If they don't come, not a big deal, can just pick up another.

[Clou777]

Remember folks, just because new content is introduced doesn't mean it is mandatory.

i used to think like that at start of ToAU, so didnt pursue any mythics, now i wish i did for that beautiful nirvana which is next to impossible to get these days

[Vold]

Just for the record I read no one's posts except the OP because the answer is pretty simple:

Hardcore players have fun with this stuff because they are into MMOs. They socialize. They BS. They probably use things like vent. These are factors that matter more than what you're actually doing on screen. If the atmosphere around you sucks loads of penis then you are never going to have any fun. Once the fun is had, anything and I mean anything we do, no matter how easy or hard or a chore, it's no big thing. Hardcore players can have their beefs sure, but at the end of the day the person "next" to you makes life that much more smooth while playing a MMO.

I might not be hardcore like the hardcores in FFXI, but I am no stranger to being a hardcore player in other MMOs. I know how it goes. The right people around you makes any MMO experience infinitely better. When people click it's magic. So, hardcore players probably don't find VW anymore fun than you or I, but because they're doing it right so to speak when it comes to online gaming, they can live with it.

[Greatguardian]

The 4-5 Empyreans is the main difference between your experience and mine, then, so I'll take what I saw with a grain of salt. The group I went with had (I believe) no Empyreans other than me, and I wasn't on my Empy job (Bronagi) because I was late and got put on WHM.

I'll probably give it another shot once my Empyrean static finishes everybody else's weapons and we move on to something else, since that is realistically the only time I regularly get on every week.

I think we only actually use two of the Emps though. My Armageddon, and another Ukon WAR which is almost always on Non-GAxe proc'ing things. No, wait, one of the Paladins uses his Almace. So, 3.

Really, the biggest difference is getting Temp Items. It's not hard at all, but it makes the fights so much easier. Sven b'awwwwwwwwwwing about dying all the time? Go take the 20 minutes it requires to get the temp item periapts for unlimited Fool's, Fanatic's, and potions/ethers.

Being prepared and being not-trash (What melee worth a damn doesn't have MDT/PDT sets?) are the only real requirements for Voidwatch. OP is just being a whiny bitch.

[Soranika]

i used to think like that at start of ToAU, so didnt pursue any mythics, now i wish i did for that beautiful nirvana which is next to impossible to get these days
Oh god, this this this!

But anyone LOLing at OP's recent responses? There's a reason why a lot of us don't do shout groups for anything anymore. Only players that can get away with shout groups and not be full of scrubs are the Japanese apparently, which is one reason why they seem to absolutely refuse others to join them in VW.

There's a lot of factors that go into going through voidwatch successfully... although if anything was proven to me, some fights are damn near destined to fail. My LS went to go do vw at Ordelle's Caves to do a routine clear for those that didn't have their stuff up to IV. It LITERALLY kept spamming venom shower. We decided it was a lost cause, let the nm depop, went back into it and it didn't even use that tp move once. So unless we were doing something wrong on that first time, NM well at times put you back in your place.

Now if you're unable to make or find an LS and do what it takes to make your VW runs successful, give it up and do something else. VW is the definition of a hardcore, yet accessible to casual players because you can do it literally as much as you want and when you want. If you can't find an LS to join for your times, troll (not the definition as it's known online) around until you do. And most will make you prove your worth, and if you can't, there's no one to blame but yourself.

[detlef]

I agree with the OP that atmacites cost more cruor to upgrade than they should.

[Soranika]

I agree with the OP that atmacites cost more cruor to upgrade than they should.
It is notoriously known that people convert crour into gil. I see the cost of atmacite upgrade as a justifiable sink for them. You're forced now to decide how to wisely spend your crour. On brews, for VW, or cash in.

[Atomic_Skull]

Voidwatch's loot system effectively removed politics from FFXI.

This is actually bad. MMOs run on drama and politics, it's what energizes their community.

This is the reason why EVE Online has the best community of any MMO. It's community is so epic that what goes on there is actually known outside of the game to people who don't actually play it.

[Zaknafein]

This is actually bad. MMOs run on drama and politics, it's what energizes their community.


Says the level 1 mule account without enough sack to post from your main. The irony...

[Runespider]

Says the level 1 mule account without enough sack to post from your main. The irony...

Let it go already, it's been done to death and long forgotten by everyone except you. Post something constructive or useful to the topic maybe.

[MarkovChain]

Having a good MDT set is probably twice as important than having an emp.

Attempt to sound elitist ? MDT is completely worthless nowadays unless the spell one shots you without it obviously. Do you realise that you always have 30% reduction from combining shellV and a barspell ? Lastly There is this wonderful cheat given to us by SE. Sherzo+earthen armor for 95% damage reduction on anything worth caring about. Do you care if the spell will deal 400 or 450 damage ? No you don't. Hello cure VI. It's actually the other way around as you tend to not use pdt or mdt for severe damage to proc.

[MarkovChain]

I didn't see many people or Salvage with pickup groups at 75 either.

This is Endgame, son. Pickups don't cut it any more.


You are out of the loop. The entire JP community has been doing shouts salvage since forever. And voidwatch is obviously best done as pickup and unless what you claim everywhere, VW is easy and is not intended for people looking for harder content.


(What melee worth a damn doesn't have MDT/PDT sets?) .

Me. I don't use WS set anymore too and I'm about to get the best weapon in the game. Either you suck or you don't.
BG elitism 101 ? Where are you double daurdabla. This reminds me of the old "post your picture threads" where most red mages where posting super awesome gear with full AF+ HQ staves and epeen mdt/b/haste sets to compensate for their lack of duelists chapeaux(+1) and morrigans™

[Juri_Licious]

This is actually bad. MMOs run on drama and politics, it's what energizes their community.

I guess fighting with people is good for the community.

[Tamoa]

Yes Pchan, you hate BG and anyone who's ever posted there with a passion, you won't pass up a single chance to emphasize that, and you know what? WE GET IT! Now shut up about it already, it's getting like listening to a broken record/scratched cd. Jesus christ you hold a grudge like noone I've ever come across before.

[Eurell]

Yes Pchan, you hate BG and anyone who's ever posted there with a passion, you won't pass up a single chance to emphasize that, and you know what? WE GET IT! Now shut up about it already, it's getting like listening to a broken record/scratched cd. Jesus christ you hold a grudge like noone I've ever come across before.

Whats funny is he would still be there if he wasn't banned.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I always said to the people who wanted a challenge to go fight Abyssea mobs without Atmas because I remember how hard Abyssea was before Atmas. Now we have Voidwatch were we are basically fighting the same mobs in Abyssea but without Atmas. Bastok path is pretty easy. Sandy path is not that bad although that behemoth can get the best of you if you are not careful. Windy path just plain sucks. Lord Asag and Voidwrought have to be some of the most annoying NM in the game. And then there's the Jeuno path, which I thought the T1 were pretty easy until we got to Agathos.

Seriously I don't know what you "hardcore" players find fun about spending hours setting up alliances sometimes waiting for just one person to start a fight just to wipe to minutes later. SO MUCH FUN. Abyssea = Fun, Outside of Abyssea is lame.

I totally left out the terrible Atmacites that cost ridiculous amounts of cruor to upgrade.

If you want an easy game where you don't need parties, or alliances go play a single-player game.

[Mirabelle]

If you want an easy game where you don't need parties, or alliances go play a single-player game.

That's a BS statement. Single player games and MMO's are not comparable at all in regards to freedome of exploration, variety of quests and enemy encounters, and opportunities for character building. You will never get a similar play experience between single player games and multiplayer games. And remember, this is play, not work. Everyone that pays should be able to have fun, whether in large groups or small groups or solo. Maybe they can't do the same things but they should have similar opportunities.

[Zarchery]

Um I'm pretty much done with Abyssea so I don't have anything else to do why would you give me such dumb advice?

"Don't do things you don't enjoy in a video game" is dumb advice?

I guess if you have accomplished your every goal in the game, you might as well quit if all the remaining content doesn't hold your interest. I think it's unrealistic to expect this game to be equally entertaining for the rest of your life.

Thing is that if Voidwatch were as easy as Abyssea, you'd blow through that just as quickly and be right back where you started in a short time.

[Zarchery]

Game is finally headed back in the direction it belongs in. Several issues with the loot distribution need fixing. Aside from that VW is very well designed. Challenging fights that require a multitude of jobs.

I think it's more like the game is headed back toward including content for casual players and the more hardcore set, which is how it should be. Catering exclusively to one side is a bad idea. People like the OP seem to be unwilling to share. The attitude reminds me of racists who complain of the decline of white America because minorities are given equal rights.

[Reiterpallasch]

I don't use WS set anymore too and I'm about to get the best weapon in the game. Either you suck or you don't.
Really? I wasn't aware lvl 95 full usukane MNK could even use Ryunohige or Yagrush.

[Leonlionheart]

pchan might just be

the weakest link

[Shadowsong]

Me. I don't use WS set anymore too and I'm about to get the best weapon in the game. Either you suck or don't

So you are about to get the "best weapon in the game" and don't gear swap? So you are telling us you are Option 1? That you suck? So you want to get outdamaged by a lvl 85 WAR with a Vermiel Bhuj? How very Rosina-like
I think it's a fair statement to advise any new players to read what pchan says, then do the exact opposite.

And you're right, all damage mitigation is useless because whm's have cure 6. In fact, every tank should be naked with no protect and shell, I mean it makes no difference right? WHMs can cure you FOREVER! Tank about an Abyssea mentality, have you ever been in a Voidwatch alliance before? Like, on something hard?

[Atomic_Skull]

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9537/rage87336363.jpg


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3520/smilesmall.jpg

[Shadowsong]

This is proof positive adding photos to the forums was a win

[MarkovChain]

have you ever been in a Voidwatch alliance before? Like, on something hard?

VoidWatch is hard ? Bazaars are filled with plates and jeuno is filled with shouts.

[Arcon]

So you are about to get the "best weapon in the game" and don't gear swap?

Pimpchan's views on this are sometimes hard to follow, though I'll try to explain them to the best of my knowledge. Why change gear, when you don't need it to win? When you can just melee for three more minutes and kill it anyway? Why have an MDT set, when you can just have an extra WHM and Daurdabla BRD?

For the first part, I don't know just why he thinks that, but, apparently, to him, it doesn't matter if he takes a bit longer to kill, while other people strive for perfection, which maybe indicates that he just lacks that drive, but fails to explain why he's trying to get good items at all then (maybe he can explain that better), but don't you ever dare admit that you wanna have and use better gear, or else you suck, because he will assume you can't do it without that gear, apparently disregarding the fact that you had to do it without that gear to even get to that point, although, again, maybe he can explain what seems like a logical fallacy to everyone else better than me, considering his mind produced this line of thinking.

For the latter part, he just assumes that everyone has an arbitrary number of white mages and bards at their disposal, who have nothing better to do than farm Daurdablas for everyone for the ultimate purpose of curing and buffing one subpar DD while they take their sweet time killing things because they refuse to swap gear, which, again, is beyond me, but don't you ever dare mention that you don't have three white mages and Daurdabla bards in your LS who are braindead enough to cater to your every whim, or he will use one of his trademarked sarcastic retorts such as "Making friends is hard.", while failing to realize that all those "friends" of his are just a mix of deluded lackeys and mules (that he probably talks to).

At first I was hesitant to request an explanation from him on that part, having the best intentions for this thread in mind, however, reconsidered when I thought about how every post he makes derails any thread beyond recognition anyway, the current one notwithstanding, when I thought at least he could help us get that final nail in the coffin that is our opinion of him by explaining (or failing to) why he's being such an, and I believe this is the technical term, asshat.

[MarkovChain]

Why macroing gear on Ws is nearly useless ? I would just like to point out that I've the gear that everyone should have at this point aka AF3+2 and level 90 empyrean, so if you are not in this situation and eppeen your macro maybe you should revise your priorities.

answers :

(1) Mt TP set is nearly maxed out on STR as is.
(2) When I WS a mob it's right after it is proced (dynamis) and that would one shot it so why would I care ¿
(3) I heard in voidwatch you want to kill as slowly as possible, which surprisingly you don't mention.
(4) 80% of the time those 20 extra STR (optimitic assumption) will not speed up the fight because the Ws is going to one shot the mob anyway and what I care about is my procing speed.
(5) For the few Tough camps that require acc (like birds) I got focus and agressor which will cap my WS accuracy anyway so don't need extra beside the natural acc of my TP set.
(6) I eat red curry bun and all mobs have at least dia2 so yeah I cap att.
(7) ALL camps are limited by amount of mobs available even tough camp so that a real DD (like MNK, not DNC) will clear it NP so you will necessarily wait upon repop at one point.



Why do I farm a level 95 weapon ? Because I don't swap my weapons ? If you think macroing mdt or ws gear makes yoiu more efficient go ahead. You are wrong though.

ITT: empyrean farming is hard.

[Soranika]

Meh... I'd cut myself if I was force to heal a naked war because they felt damage resistance was pointless.

[Glacont]

I Love Abyssea for the god-mode and all the gear/weapons that come with it. That's never going to change for Me. I Value VW, because in essence it's old content beef-up. I enjoy seeing jobs come together, through strategy and not 'hit him till he falls routine', to take down a common foe. Not to mention, Paladins are brought back to the forefront. No disresepct to "any" other tanks out there, but I miss seeing the Sword and Shield across the board in action. Even Bards and Corsairs are once again useful, which is a plus in My Book.The only True downside of VW is the drop rate of gear. Useing points to build your atams is a grind, but from 04 to 11 we're all use to that by now.

[Seiowan]

I have several issues with Voidwatch, not least of all the amount of effort that goes into something with very little reward. Sorry, but the drop system and drop rates suck horribly. If SE really want to go forward with voidwatch for their endgame, this really needs addressing or people will simply not bother with it.

The fights should be difficult, but the rewards should reflect the extra risk involved.

[Glacont]

Quick question for everyone:

"Is the drop rate base upon your actions during gameplay or random?"

I've herd conflicting views and I really want to clear this up for My own personal reasons.

[Greatguardian]

Quick question for everyone:

"Is the drop rate baes upon your actions during gameplay or random?"

I've herd conflicting views and I really want to clear this up for My own personal reasons.

Are you asking if the drop rates can be affected by gameplay? If that's the case, then yes. You affect drop rates by increasing your various Light%s. Blue light increases the number of drops in your personal chest, and Red light increases the "quality" of those drops. White Light is also directly proportional to your %-chance to receive Key Items/Periapts from the NM.

However, unlike Abyssea, you aren't going to see each NM's "ultra rare" drop very often even with capped lights. Drops aside from the "rare" piece? Those are pretty common with capped lights. I have had to trash a couple Strendu Rings and Strendu Mantles because I already have them.

The main frustration from Voidwatch drop rates comes in the form of Bodies, which take the ultra rare slot. Not only are they hard to come by, but when you see a rare melee body load into a mage-only (or worse, a Mule) character's chest you're not very happy.

[Tamoa]

Quick question for everyone:

"Is the drop rate baes upon your actions during gameplay or random?"

I've herd conflicting views and I really want to clear this up for My own personal reasons.

Quite certain it's totally random - like 99% certain. Seen the good ra/ex drops go to people who, in comparison to others in the alliance, have contributed little to the fight.

Edit: looking at GG's post, maybe I misunderstood the question. He is right, you need capped lights to increase drop rates, however I'm certain your personal actions during the fight won't have any effect on what appears in your personal chest.

[Leonlionheart]

@Glacont: If you mean is it like Campaign and how VW used to decide who gets what drops/amount of exp? Then no, that has nothing to do with anything. There've been people dead the entire fight and getting bodies.

[Kimble]

Seriously don't listen to Pchan. He only does outdated content where, for the most part WS gear wont be a big difference but we all know he doesn't do Voidwatch at all because he thinks all the gear from it is crap.

So if he ever offers an opinion on it, its just stuff hes making up with no experience at all.

[Glacont]

Ok, I could be misreading everyone's answers. If I am then please correct Me:

1) Lights increases the 'chance' of desired drops, however, it is not 100% with cap lights. At the most Lights raises it from 0% to 50% chance? The other 50% is random at best?
2) And VW is unlike Campaign. Leon's testatment of K.O. Gamers winning bodies.

[Kimble]

Blue light raises the amount of items you can get in your chest. every 100% is one item in chest. Caps at 525% so 5 items 100% and 25% chance at a 6th time.

Red increases the chance at good items. caps at 500%. Many different ideas as to how that system works.

[Reiterpallasch]

Red increases the chance at good items. caps at 500%. Many different ideas as to how that system works.
100-299% yew log, 300-499% petrified log, 500% ebony log.

[Greatguardian]

Ok, I could be misreading everyone's answers. If I am then please correct Me:

1) Lights increases the 'chance' of desired drops, however, it is not 100% with cap lights. At the most Lights raises it from 0% to 50% chance? The other 50% is random at best?
2) And VW is unlike Campaign. Leon's testatment of K.O. Gamers winning bodies.

1) Yes. But it's not 50% for the ultra rare drops. There are different tiers of rare drops from each NM. There are common drops and rare drops at the least. Common drops aren't that bad with capped lights, 30% would be a decent estimate. Rare drops are just that, rare, even with capped lights. You can increase your chances with the lights, but they're still rare.

2) Right. Lights are for the whole alliance. As of yet, there is no penalty/bonus for any particular player in that alliance like Campaign.

[Atomic_Skull]

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8683/crazysmall.png

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1695/panther1011.jpg

[Shadowsong]

Why macroing gear on Ws is nearly useless ? I would just like to point out that I've the gear that everyone should have at this point aka AF3+2 and level 90 empyrean, so if you are not in this situation and eppeen your macro maybe you should

So you are a bad DD that likes getting outdamaged by level 85s without Empyreans?
I also like that you think af3+2 is good gear or that Empyreans are hard to get lol.
Hows that Usukane set doing?