Give every job dual wield at 99

[Olor]

At 99, free us from having to choose a either nin or dnc sub to get dual wield. Open up the sub job possibilities with native dual weild for every job at 99

[Neisan_Quetz]

Dual wield only matters for single handers anyway. And of those, Pld still doesn't care, Dnc Nin and Thf have it already, and Blu can set it. That leaves ... ohwait.

[MDenham]

Dual wield only matters for single handers anyway. And of those, Pld still doesn't care, Dnc Nin and Thf have it already, and Blu can set it. That leaves ... ohwait.WHM and RDM, right?

Speaking of dual wield, it'd be nice if dual MAcc wands/swords beat accuracy-affinity staves at 99, but for some reason I don't see that happening.

[Neisan_Quetz]

OP's Job actually. I don't mind subbing Nin for dualwield on either. Chances are SE would do what they did with Thf and make it DW1 at a high level, so it would be superfluous at best.

[Zaknafein]

OP's Job actually. I don't mind subbing Nin for dualwield on either. Chances are SE would do what they did with Thf and make it DW1 at a high level, so it would be superfluous at best.

Dual wield tier 1 amounts to a whole lot of nothing if you have a basic understanding of game mechanics, and math.

Apparently those are not a requirement for posting threads.

[Urthdigger]

Weren't people asking a while back for samurai to dual wield great katanas?

[Rearden]

Dual wield tier 1 amounts to a whole lot of nothing if you have a basic understanding of game mechanics, and math.

Apparently those are not a requirement for posting threads.

Someone doesn't know what superfluous means.

[MDenham]

Weren't people asking a while back for samurai to dual wield great katanas?On this line of reasoning, Galkas with Dual Wield should be able to dual wield Tarus, who may have Dual Wield themselves.

[Hashmalum]

On this line of reasoning, Galkas with Dual Wield should be able to dual wield Tarus, who may have Dual Wield themselves.And the tarus are dual wielding pixies. Pixies who also have Dual Wield.

[Dew]

While we are at making duel wield GKs, lets make it so War can Duel wield Ukon and Bravura. Heck lets not stop there maybe some double shield action too. Lets also make some Duel wield staffs. Summoner can melee it up with Claustrum and Hvergelmir. That's double the win right there.

[Economizer]

WHM and RDM, right?

DW1 for all jobs would be so hot. At the least, you'd be able to get slightly better melee ability at all times, although you'd still want to sub Dancer or Ninja in many cases. Maybe a ranged attack item that grants the ability (unlike stuff like the Suppa earring) would be more realistic for making this happen? While even this does open up options, there are still consequences to even an item version (same with an item version of Wide Scan 1).

On more realistic DW adjustments, Thief should get DW2 at some point at the least, and we know BLU is going to get a higher tier via spells. Any one handed job would be thrilled to get the ability though. If I had to list the jobs most likely to get a tier of this, I'd probably have Beastmaster, Corsair and Ranger as the likely suspects. A mage can dream though, right?

[Atomic_Skull]

DW1 for all jobs would be so hot. At the least, you'd be able to get slightly better melee ability at all times

All the jobs that use 1H weapons either already have it or have no use for it.

THF DNC NIN BLU: have it already. Of these THF and BLU will always be using /NIN for shadows and DW3 anyway.

PLD: Should never take off shield.

RDM: Should always be using staves.

WHM: See RDM.

WAR: Should always use great axe.

[Soranika]

It honestly doesn't make sense to have dual wield on every job though. Maybe on WAR, but it seems like your reasons for for wanting DW on every job (which to be honest, you want it specifically on BST) is near the same as me hoping DNC would get their own native blink/shadows job ability because I really dislike subbing NIN.

[Babekeke]

The reason BST wants Dual Wield has nothing at all to do with faster TP building. In fact, It likely has exactly the opposite reason... I'll explain.

Right now, to Dual Wield 2 -PDT pet axes, BST has to sub NIN or DNC. Subbing NIN means you can keep shadows up vs a mob that doesn't AOE, however if the mob can AOE you, DNC can be better to cure yourself.

Unfortunately, /DNC requires TP which isn't very easy to come by, and even harder in situations like closed battlefields where there's only the NM to build TP on. In this situation, /SCH /WHM or /RDM are much better options as you can replenish mp simply by /heal, not to mention far more refresh gear available, and sublimation/refresh from rdm or sch. But right now, you can only wield 1 x -pdt axe if you /sch /whm or /rdm

If this wasn't why the OP wanted DW for BST, I'm stumped.

[Economizer]

RDM: Should always be using staves.

WHM: See RDM.

I don't even have to break into melee situations to bust this, but those alone would break this misinformed statement.

Clubs and Swords inherently have better stats then shields. Tefnut Wand and a Templar Mace, or a Galenus for more cure potency then a Staff currently can give. Enfeebles have potency based on stats, so in certain cases having +10 MND will win out over more magic accuracy. Furthermore, for White Mage currently, the best cure set for maximum MP cured per cure currently uses a Tefnut Wand a shield. Getting Dual Wield would benefit this.

While one could argue that it wouldn't make sense from a flavor or balance standpoint (and perhaps it doesn't, I'm not saying it would make sense), arguing that it wouldn't be useful is just plain wrong.


The reason BST wants Dual Wield has nothing at all to do with faster TP building. In fact, It likely has exactly the opposite reason... I'll explain.

Aside from the obvious BST needs that you clearly pointed out, I'd say that being able to offhand a multihitter for TP will always win out over not being able to, even with Dual Wield 1.

While people serious about boosting melee damage will still sub Dancer or Ninja, it would work well in the situations you listed to be able to have melee as an option while you are focusing on something else.

Or for example, if you are a Red Mage, you could sub Dark Knight for more Sword weapon skills while still getting Dual Wield, or Warrior for more Sword weapon skills and double attack (which is very potent when used with even the lowest tier of DW).

[Neisan_Quetz]

*Than a buyable staff can give on Cure Potency

Please see Surya's Staff with Cure Potency augment.

Only Slow Para Blind and Addle(?) are directly affected by INT/MND from a potency standpoint for enfeebles (I have seen no evidence for Break and it appears to function similar to Bind as far as INT/Macc affects it), for the others they only give Magic Accuracy depending on dINT/dMND.

The problem with your last statement is that it isn't. Last time I saw math on it for Blu who has similar but better gear for meleeing than Rdm, Dual Wield III was better than Dual Wield II+Berserk (of course, DA was unaccounted for since you can set it regardless of sub), Unless you were benefiting from both Zerk and Aggressor, otherwise it was at best equal. Without at minimum dual wield 2 I don't see Dual wield I being very useful on Rdm and barely useful on Whm, and only for Tefnut/Templar.

[Camiie]

Whether it's ideal or not, WAR, as the master of weapons, should have always had dual wield available natively. It just makes sense to me.

To me, it makes sense for BST to have access to it. I always envisioned the BST as not only fighting alongside a beast, but fighting kind of like one. I always kind of wondered why they didn't use claws when I first started. Dual wielding could come off as a "wilder" fighting style than an axe/shield and thus be fitting for a BST.

As for RDM and WHM, while it wouldn't bother me, it doesn't make as much sense really. RDMs are fencers (and should have Fencer trait, by the way) which screams "single sword only." WHM feels more natural with a club/shield. I just don't really envision a cleric type class dual wielding.

[Soranika]

If I remember correctly, RDM use to be very deadly using a man hand sword, off hand dagger.... or was it the other way around? The current way RDM goes against what the job was envisioned to be. It's unfair to limit them to staves only.

As for WHM... Tefnut Want + augmented Genbu shield argument to not using a staff asside, does not need duel wield trait. Melee WHM are a novelty, but regular WHM can still survive just about anything through self curing. Curing speed, one of the most important things to me personally, makes subbing /RDM or /SCH much more preferable to subbing /NIN or /DNC.

I can understand where having a natural dual wield to every job is attractive, but it seems like a trait that would be out of place with much needed re-balance when you start to consider using another subjob. Nevermind the fact that BST are already one of the still one of the most self sufficient, solo jobs with even the most basic of gear.

[Nala]

on a side note there are a few more options other then a vulcan staff a RNG could use with dual weild and still sub something else like sam or war, so not all 1 handed jobs are capable of dual wielding.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Whether it's ideal or not, WAR, as the master of weapons, should have always had dual wield available natively. It just makes sense to me.

To me, it makes sense for BST to have access to it. I always envisioned the BST as not only fighting alongside a beast, but fighting kind of like one. I always kind of wondered why they didn't use claws when I first started. Dual wielding could come off as a "wilder" fighting style than an axe/shield and thus be fitting for a BST.

As for RDM and WHM, while it wouldn't bother me, it doesn't make as much sense really. RDMs are fencers (and should have Fencer trait, by the way) which screams "single sword only." WHM feels more natural with a club/shield. I just don't really envision a cleric type class dual wielding.

Being able to use all weapons doesn't make them masters of said weapons.

[Reiterpallasch]

They could give RDM the highest tier of DW in the game, and they'd still be the lowest tier melee.


Furthermore, for White Mage currently, the best cure set for maximum MP cured per cure currently uses a Tefnut Wand a shield. Getting Dual Wield would benefit this.
No it wouldn't.

[MDenham]

No it wouldn't.The best cure potency shield is still worse than the second-best cure potency club (Templar Mace - +10%), so yes, it would, in that it means that the WHM can still come /SCH rather than having to show up /NIN or /DNC.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They could give RDM the highest tier of DW in the game, and they'd still be the lowest tier melee.

Hardly...


10 words limit

[Soranika]

The best cure potency shield is still worse than the second-best cure potency club (Templar Mace - +10%), so yes, it would, in that it means that the WHM can still come /SCH rather than having to show up /NIN or /DNC.
Yet it's already quite possible to cap healing magic easily through various equipment set ups and use of abilities. There's no reason to duel wield two clubs just just to go around to say "Oh look at how much cure potency I have. You ignore the one shield that matters though, aside from the cure potency augment. Genbu's shield can also have additional - curing cast time as well as -10% physical damage reduction.

Cure potency isn't the only thing that matters for a WHM. Speed and survivability should be equally important. But regardless, your argument is pretty flawed cause the only real purpose you have for duel wielding is stat boosting when it's a combat related trait and should honestly stay that way.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yet it's already quite possible to cap healing magic easily through various equipment set ups and use of abilities. There's no reason to duel wield two clubs just just to go around to say "Oh look at how much cure potency I have. You ignore the one shield that matters though, aside from the cure potency augment. Genbu's shield can also have additional - curing cast time as well as -10% physical damage reduction.

Cure potency isn't the only thing that matters for a WHM. Speed and survivability should be equally important. But regardless, your argument is pretty flawed cause the only real purpose you have for duel wielding is stat boosting when it's a combat related trait and should honestly stay that way.

Macro's help with that. The quicker you cap Cure potency means more spaces open for MND, VIT and such.

[Soranika]

Macro's can be pretty unreliable of your multitasking and limited in lines per macro command. I have to deal with that a lot on DNC. It's painful without using a spellcast and/or playing on consoles.

[Dirtyfinger]

As stated, if you're going to be using 1 handed weapons you're better off just going /NIN. WAR would get no benefit from having native DW as what sub would you recommend using from a DD standpoint? Yup NIN.

[Atomic_Skull]

Clubs and Swords inherently have better stats then shields. Tefnut Wand and a Templar Mace, or a Galenus for more cure potency then a Staff currently can give. Enfeebles have potency based on stats, so in certain cases having +10 MND will win out over more magic accuracy. Furthermore, for White Mage currently, the best cure set for maximum MP cured per cure currently uses a Tefnut Wand a shield. Getting Dual Wield would benefit this.

Surya's staff +3: Cure potency +23%

[Elphy]

They could give RDM the highest tier of DW in the game, and they'd still be the lowest tier melee.

I see you have never encountered a melee rdm that knows how to successfully melee with rdm. The best, No. But hardly the worst.

[Atomic_Skull]

I see you have never encountered a melee rdm that knows how to successfully melee with rdm. The best, No. But hardly the worst.

And assuming player skill is equal exactly what jobs is a melee RDM better than?

Just being better than a garage sale THF wearing whatever he found in the laundry basket and dual wielding a thief's knife and heartsnatcher because he leveled it for TH and doesn't care does not mean that your damage doesn't suck.

[noodles355]

Oh great, another bloody rdm melee topic. Rdm, equally geared and played will always be worse at DD than a dedicated melee job, and every moron who says otherwise is trying to compare their view of a good rdm melee with a terrible [other DD].

My Rdm out-DDs Wars in Dom Op parties, does that make me better or equal to war as a job? Hell no. It just means I'm a better player than said Wars, and was I on War myself, I would be doing significantly more damge still.

As far as bst goes: You're complaining you have to make a choice of shadows+pet PDT-10% against being able to cure with MP? Big whoop-di-doop. Almost all jobs have to make choices and sacrifices through subjob choices. It's part of the game, get over it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

On this line of reasoning, Galkas with Dual Wield should be able to dual wield Tarus, who may have Dual Wield themselves.
And the tarus are dual wielding pixies. Pixies who also have Dual Wield.In 3rd edition there was a feat called swarm fighting which you could take as long as you weren't and larger then small. It gave you +1 to attack and damage for each other ally in "the swarm" that also had the feat. Ah the good old days of the ball of writhing halflings.

[Economizer]

Surya's staff +3: Cure potency +23%

Sure, getting the best cure potency set you can with the Surya's Staff is easier to get then the best cure potency set you'd use with a Tefnut Wand, but using a Tefnut Wand will produce better cures. The math is very, very clear. As before, Dual Wield would benefit this - the best club is better then the best shield when gearing to cure.

Until the Surya's Staff can bring some Mind to the table, or grips start to have large stat boosts, the Staff option just falls behind in a variety of cases. It won't make or break the mage to have them or not, but ultimately, arbitrarily shutting out the option for analysis just because you don't want someone you want to sit in the back to hold a weapon that shares a category with something that can actually do damage is not very wise.


The problem with your last statement is that it isn't. Last time I saw math on it for Blu who has similar but better gear for meleeing than Rdm, Dual Wield III was better than Dual Wield II+Berserk (of course, DA was unaccounted for since you can set it regardless of sub), Unless you were benefiting from both Zerk and Aggressor, otherwise it was at best equal. Without at minimum dual wield 2 I don't see Dual wield I being very useful on Rdm and barely useful on Whm, and only for Tefnut/Templar.

I wasn't talking about comparing Dual Wield III to Dual Wield I or II. I was talking about comparing it to not having Dual Wield at all. Sometimes you can't limit your sub to Ninja or Dancer.


If I remember correctly, RDM use to be very deadly using a man hand sword, off hand dagger.... or was it the other way around? The current way RDM goes against what the job was envisioned to be. It's unfair to limit them to staves only.

As for WHM... Tefnut Want + augmented Genbu shield argument to not using a staff asside, does not need duel wield trait. Melee WHM are a novelty, but regular WHM can still survive just about anything through self curing. Curing speed, one of the most important things to me personally, makes subbing /RDM or /SCH much more preferable to subbing /NIN or /DNC.

I can understand where having a natural dual wield to every job is attractive, but it seems like a trait that would be out of place with much needed re-balance when you start to consider using another subjob. Nevermind the fact that BST are already one of the still one of the most self sufficient, solo jobs with even the most basic of gear.

White Mage melee certainly isn't a novelty if you are trying to solo anything as one. Curing yourself for five minutes won't kill a monster if you are the only one doing damage, even if you are casting every Divine Magic nuke and even Impact every chance you get. Not every situation in this game is an alliance battle versus mobs that will kill anything they look at that doesn't have over a few thousand health.

Of course, does a White Mage need Dual Wield natively? Does a Red Mage? Does Beastmaster? Again, like I said before, while it would be beneficial towards the classes, it does not necessarily make it happening a good idea from a flavor or balance standpoint.

[Babekeke]

And assuming player skill is equal exactly what jobs is a melee RDM better than?

Just being better than a garage sale THF wearing whatever he found in the laundry basket and dual wielding a thief's knife and heartsnatcher because he leveled it for TH and doesn't care does not mean that your damage doesn't suck.

Welcome to Red mage Melee theory: The only job in the game that can dual-wield 2 relic weapons.

[Economizer]

Welcome to Red mage Melee theory: The only job in the game that can dual-wield 2 relic weapons.

Hate to be a buzz kill, but the hidden effects on Relic and Mythic weapons don't function when placed in the off hand, at least from what I've heard.

As before, this is in no way an endorsement for or against Red Mage melee, nor one for or against Dual Wield for jobs that don't have it natively. Just a statement of facts.

[Urthdigger]

Honestly, I'm not surprised a RDM doesn't outparse "real" DD in a given situation. RDM can buff, cure themselves, and enfeeble the monster. For most real DD, dealing damage is pretty much all they do, with the only melee coming close in that department being DNC, but RDM has the better buffs, and it's not like DNC is top of the tier either. But on the other hand, I do not consider melee RDM useless.

I don't expect RDM to melee on high level NMs. You don't even want most of your real DDs to melee on those half the time. However, when farming pop items, or trying to get lights in abyssea, or fighting mooks in dynamis, or xping, or any other case where you're fighting monsters of only moderate difficulty, I have no problem with a RDM melee, assuming they're fulfilling their other duties as well.

[MDenham]

Hate to be a buzz kill, but the hidden effects on Relic and Mythic weapons don't function when placed in the off hand, at least from what I've heard.Even without the hidden effects, that's still two very good weapons paired together.

This also isn't an endorsement for or against RDM melee, just a commentary on the commentary.

[Quetzacoatl]

How 'bout I dual-wield facepalms to this thread

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Oh great, another bloody rdm melee topic. Rdm, equally geared and played will always be worse at DD than a dedicated melee job, and every moron who says otherwise is trying to compare their view of a good rdm melee with a terrible [other DD].

My Rdm out-DDs Wars in Dom Op parties, does that make me better or equal to war as a job? Hell no. It just means I'm a better player than said Wars, and was I on War myself, I would be doing significantly more damge still.

As far as bst goes: You're complaining you have to make a choice of shadows+pet PDT-10% against being able to cure with MP? Big whoop-di-doop. Almost all jobs have to make choices and sacrifices through subjob choices. It's part of the game, get over it.

I love that one person remarks on something said about RDM and you call it a RDM Melee topic, Exaggeration much!?

Seriously WHM was mentioned too, should we call it a WHM Melee topic aswell?

[noodles355]

Exaggeration much!?One person remarked on Rdm melee? Exaggeration much!? Pot calling the kettle black?

[Prothscar]

This is one of the worst ideas that I have read in a very long time, and since the official forums were opened I've seen more craptacular ideas than I likely ever will for any other medium in my life.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

One person remarked on Rdm melee? Exaggeration much!? Pot calling the kettle black?

I remarked on your one, single post. You remarked on the entire topic.. so no.. Your Point = NULL

[Soranika]

Oh great, another bloody rdm melee topic. Rdm, equally geared and played will always be worse at DD than a dedicated melee job, and every moron who says otherwise is trying to compare their view of a good rdm melee with a terrible [other DD].
Since when was this topic derailed into "another bloody rdm melee topic"? No one was discussing melee rdm or even damage potential or lack there for of but mostly generalization very, very briefly.



My Rdm out-DDs Wars in Dom Op parties, does that make me better or equal to war as a job? Hell no. It just means I'm a better player than said Wars, and was I on War myself, I would be doing significantly more damge still.
No one cares?



As far as bst goes: You're complaining you have to make a choice of shadows+pet PDT-10% against being able to cure with MP? Big whoop-di-doop. Almost all jobs have to make choices and sacrifices through subjob choices. It's part of the game, get over it. We went to talking about bst to whm, from combat application to stat boosting consideration of duel wielding. You have a poor way of summing up and digesting the contents of what's been discussed.

Rest assured, we're not singling out rdm melee, I picked on whm melee too so how about keeping your panties on a second and not barge in complaining instead of joining the discussion rationally... I guess if that's possible.

[noodles355]

I remarked on your one, single post. You remarked on the entire topic.. so no.. Your Point = NULL
I love that one person remarks on something said about RDMYou posted saying that one person commented about rdm melee, which was not justification for my outburst. So yes, that's an exaggeration and you're a hypocrite.

Since when was this topic derailed into "another bloody rdm melee topic"?If it has potential to turn into a Rdm melee topic, then it needs to be snuffed out early. That's that. There were a good 4~ replies about rdm melee, that's enough to send off the alarm bells and try and stop it.

We went to talking about bst to whm, from combat application to stat boosting consideration of duel wielding.What's your point? The argument I posted regarding bst is the exact same for whm too. But here, I'll re-quote the relevant section as you seem to have some sort of selective reading problem:

Big whoop-di-doop. Almost all jobs have to make choices and sacrifices through subjob choices. It's part of the game, get over it.

I do love the arrogant tone of your post, when you haven't actually concidered what I wrote properly. "Oh! he sounds angry so what he says must be rubbish and I shall argue it because it being angry has made me angry too!"

[MDenham]

Seriously WHM was mentioned too, should we call it a WHM Melee topic aswell?Temper for WHM! :D

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You posted saying that one person commented about rdm melee, which was not justification for my outburst. So yes, that's an exaggeration and you're a hypocrite.

Well no, not quite.

But okay...

[noodles355]

I love that one person remarks on something said about RDM and you call it a RDM Melee topic.Well yes, quite.

[Soranika]

I do love the arrogant tone of your post, when you haven't actually concidered what I wrote properly. "Oh! he sounds angry so what he says must be rubbish and I shall argue it because it being angry has made me angry too!"
Seriously, calm your tits and stop taking everything as a personal offense.

If you read back to one of my last posts about duel wield, the last thing I said that it's combat trait and should stay that way. Yes, it's about making choices and sacrifices over what subjob you use, but pretty much everything else you bother to type is down right ignorant to the discussion out of paranoia that some one dissing the way you may choose to play your favorite job or whatever. In short, you lost credibility before your closing statement was made.

Edit in:

Temper for WHM! :D
I vote for Ternary Flourish on WHM.

[MDenham]

I vote for Ternary Flourish on WHM.Native Quadruple Attack, retroactive to lv85.

[Yinnyth]

At 99, free us from having to choose a either nin or dnc sub to get dual wield. Open up the sub job possibilities with native dual weild for every job at 99

If the idea is to open up more SJ options, the solution is not to give every job dualwield. The solution is to make other SJs equally useful in other ways.

When's the last time you saw someone sub blu or cor? bst is mostly only good as a sj for charm (an enmity tool), but even that is pretty weak. pup only gets used as a sj if the ADD trick needs to get used. The autorefresh from /smn ain't all that attractive now that /sch 1ups it. Most SJs are a terrible choice right now. It's no wonder you're using nin or dnc! Not only do they give you dualwield, but they give you sneak/invis methods, nin gives you shadows, and dnc gives you heals, sambas, steps, and flourishes!

The real problem is that other jobs don't have complimentary traits/JAs/spells at low levels. What would you sub on bst if you had native dualwield? Yeah, war, because of berserk, aggressor, double attack, provoke, etc. Lots of jobs need to have their SJ usability re-examined.

[noodles355]

Seriously, calm your tits and stop taking everything as a personal offense.Calm down. Oh wait, there's no actual anger in your post, so that doesn't really work? My bad.

(Psst, maybe you should try saying that to me too regarding my last post which you quoted, devoid of anything justifying a "calm down" really. If you don't want me to take things as a personal offence then dont write them directly at me?)

From your last post I have discovered a few things about you:
1) You like to make baseless assumptions to try and build an argument. Making something out of nothing. Sauce: "that some one dissing the way you may choose to play your favorite job or whatever".
2) You seem to think I care about how much credibility you think I have. (I couldn't care less. i don't owe you anything, and nor do you have any assets I'd be interested in)
3) You like to call justified arguments ignorant, without any sort of rebuttle. Unless of course the "ignorant" comment was regarding my comments on Rdm melee, which I thought we already covered was a tangent? The argument of "you must make choices and sacrifices, everyone else does on every other job" is still relevant.
4) Hvergelmir.

[Soranika]

Well this got no where fast. My bad for assuming your first post was an assumption that this topic would derail into rdm melee topic, assuming that my post towards had an "arrogant tone". My bad for assuming every retaliatory remark you made against Daniel was an attempt to defend yourself while at the same time trying to make a snide remark against him, which I assumed was cause you took grievance from even being addressed by some one not agreeing with your stance. Cause I mean, how could it not rub your the wrong way since it was directed at you, right?

You come in overreacting and make a jumble argumentative post that's over simplifying the pre-existent debate.

And seriously, a hvergelmir in my possession is bothersome to you that you have this baseless assumption in your head for what I may be using it for? ...Right.

But oh, on to important business...


White Mage melee certainly isn't a novelty if you are trying to solo anything as one. Curing yourself for five minutes won't kill a monster if you are the only one doing damage, even if you are casting every Divine Magic nuke and even Impact every chance you get. Not every situation in this game is an alliance battle versus mobs that will kill anything they look at that doesn't have over a few thousand health.

Of course, does a White Mage need Dual Wield natively? Does a Red Mage? Does Beastmaster? Again, like I said before, while it would be beneficial towards the classes, it does not necessarily make it happening a good idea from a flavor or balance standpoint.
If WHM is not a novelty, then what would be the application of a melee WHM outside of personal preference when doing things on your own time?

[MDenham]

If WHM is not a novelty, then what would be the application of a melee WHM outside of personal preference when doing things on your own time?Proving it's possible to do X on WHM.

It makes more sense in small groups, when the application of melee WHM is to retain WHM cure power while speeding up kills somewhat. (Obviously whether or not this is a good idea depends on the fight. For example, I'm not crazy enough to melee Chloris on WHM.)

[CapriciousOne]

All the jobs that use 1H weapons either already have it or have no use for it.

THF DNC NIN BLU: have it already. Of these THF and BLU will always be using /NIN for shadows and DW3 anyway.

PLD: Should never take off shield.

RDM: Should always be using staves.

WHM: See RDM.

WAR: Should always use great axe.

Biggest bunch of bs i ever heard given that tier I enspells affect both main and offhand weapon. RDM technically should've been had DW1 and DW2 already behind NIN and DNC of course with NIN the highest tier of DW followed by DNC, then RDM. I NEVER understood people who want to be RDM but never use a sword which they have an actuall skill for that improves accuracy but think RDM should ONLY use a STAFF for which they have no actual skill for and may only get a few paltry stat boosts for which make very little difference overall when they are still outshined natively by BLM and SCH. To each their own but complete BS in my opinion but whatever

[SpankWustler]

Biggest bunch of bs i ever heard given that tier I enspells affect both main and offhand weapon. RDM technically should've been had DW1 and DW2 already behind NIN and DNC of course with NIN the highest tier of DW followed by DNC, then RDM. I NEVER understood people who want to be RDM but never use a sword which they have an actuall skill for that improves accuracy but think RDM should ONLY use a STAFF for which they have no actual skill for and may only get a few paltry stat boosts for which make very little difference overall when they are still outshined natively by BLM and SCH. To each their own but complete BS in my opinion but whatever

My head is full of something. (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/8/87/Surya%27s_staff_%2B3.png)

Something that rhymes with "truck". (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/5/59/Trial3023.png)

Can anyone guess what is filling my head? (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/b/bd/Trial3036.png)

[Neisan_Quetz]

I idle in PDT Shamshir so nacht.

Still need oneiros grip so back to staff below 76% MP.

[Olor]

Dual wield only matters for single handers anyway. And of those, Pld still doesn't care, Dnc Nin and Thf have it already, and Blu can set it. That leaves ... ohwait.

BST, and BRD

:P

My two fave jobs

[Olor]

The reason BST wants Dual Wield has nothing at all to do with faster TP building. In fact, It likely has exactly the opposite reason... I'll explain.

Right now, to Dual Wield 2 -PDT pet axes, BST has to sub NIN or DNC. Subbing NIN means you can keep shadows up vs a mob that doesn't AOE, however if the mob can AOE you, DNC can be better to cure yourself.

Unfortunately, /DNC requires TP which isn't very easy to come by, and even harder in situations like closed battlefields where there's only the NM to build TP on. In this situation, /SCH /WHM or /RDM are much better options as you can replenish mp simply by /heal, not to mention far more refresh gear available, and sublimation/refresh from rdm or sch. But right now, you can only wield 1 x -pdt axe if you /sch /whm or /rdm

If this wasn't why the OP wanted DW for BST, I'm stumped.


Yeah this is exactly why I want dual wield for bst. Would love to be able to sub mages without taking a major hit to pet durability.

[CapriciousOne]

My head is full of something. (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/8/87/Surya%27s_staff_%2B3.png)

Something that rhymes with "truck". (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/5/59/Trial3023.png)

Can anyone guess what is filling my head? (http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/b/bd/Trial3036.png)

I was thinking more along the lines of something that rhymes with "spilt" but whatever