Eleven Fajin boots!

[Frost]

We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin Boots dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The Three People that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the Eight Wasted other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.


Hmm... Seems like I'm not the only one...

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/Pbucket17/Red-Arrow.gif

[starfxcker000]

Please. <3

[Arylias]

Fo' Srs. Having 11 pieces of gear turn into THREE, is utterly ridiculous. Why should we even waste our time, if we can't do anything to control this?

[ThaiChi]

Yea.... my THF is 49, my RNG is 48. I'm going to level THF now, but getting a 2nd pair in the pool that i could do nothing about is really disheartening to the 95 THFs in our linkshell. Really, some people brought up a good point, I may as well not say anything when if I see another R/ex item in my treasure chest because it would be discouraging to my LS mates.

[Raksha]

18 kills:

3 gorgets (tossed)
1 faijin boots (sent to storage)
0 heavy metal

[Frost]

18 kills:

3 gorgets (tossed)
1 faijin boots (sent to storage)
0 heavy metal

Well I can One up you!

The same person got 5 Pouches of Heavy Metal, One other person got a pouch.
I got 3 gorgets, someone reported getting 6. a couple people also got multiples, Ironically no one that wanted it got it.

Two people got the Lux Pugio, Neither could use it.

But the best part is:

Eleven Boots dropped to Three People!

[Kuraudo]

If this is what the new endgame is going to be for a while then why not make it less rage inducing? I'm seriously starting to think that the developers are trying to make us quit.

Voidwatch would be perfect if the developers decided not to have the same item go to the same person again and again and AGAIN! Especially the really rare items like Coruscanti. Do the developers seriously expect us to keep farming this crap over and over again just to have the Coruscanti go to the SAME person AGAIN! To hell with that!

Please fix this!

[Rearden]

Hello! I see you are participating in Voidwatch.

This is working as intended.

[Arcon]

I love your sense of art and style and emphasis in the OP. That alone would have netted you a "Like". But yeah, this is just stupid. Not surprising though. I'm hard pressed to remember the last smart thing they did.

[DarkBass]

Lets see... Me and a fellow blue mage getting bodies we actually wanted, needed, can use in voidwatch goes into the catagory of 1% of the time. People getting multiples and people getting something they cant use goes into the catagory of 99% of the time. Something wrong with this picture? I think so. My guess that this happens is because its just too complicated to write code for boxes to check every individual to make it so that multiple R/EX items don't appear in chest. So please Square Enix I and perhaps others that agree with me ask you to impliment a simple remedy to this disheartening and infuriating situation. This remedy is one you've done with Abyssea that was very very smart. Its called "Add spoils to pool".

[Ihnako]

My guess that this happens is because its just too complicated to write code for boxes to check every individual to make it so that multiple R/EX items don't appear in chest.
SE allready has this sort of code implemented - remember Shinryu.

[Ash]

Seriously, its so insulting when you see a piece of R/EX you already got in your chest...such a waste. but i ll quote our good friend camate "its working as intended and a silver ore is your credit for winning!"

[Insaniac]

I've gotten 5 Ganesha's Masks. I didn't want any of them. The VW drop system is the worst drop system ever imagined. That is not an exaggeration. It is actually the worst drop system, in any game, ever.

[Raksha]

Well I can One up you!

The same person got 5 Pouches of Heavy Metal, One other person got a pouch.
I got 3 gorgets, someone reported getting 6. a couple people also got multiples, Ironically no one that wanted it got it.

Two people got the Lux Pugio, Neither could use it.

But the best part is:

Eleven Boots dropped to Three People!

Oh that reminds me, the only person who got coruscanti in those 18 kills can't even equip it.

[Quetzacoatl]

Lets see... Me and a fellow blue mage getting bodies we actually wanted, needed, can use in voidwatch goes into the catagory of 1% of the time. People getting multiples and people getting something they cant use goes into the catagory of 99% of the time. Something wrong with this picture? I think so. My guess that this happens is because its just too complicated to write code for boxes to check every individual to make it so that multiple R/EX items don't appear in chest. So please Square Enix I and perhaps others that agree with me ask you to impliment a simple remedy to this disheartening and infuriating situation. This remedy is one you've done with Abyssea that was very very smart. Its called "Add spoils to pool".

This. SO friggin' much.

[Twille]

The VoidWatch drop system is a joke. A horrible, horrible joke. Whether or not it's working "as intended" is irrelevant. It needs to be re-worked.

[Reiterpallasch]

SE allready has this sort of code implemented - remember Shinryu.
What about Shinryu? He has nothing to do with boxes <_<

[Tamoa]

Low drop rates is one thing, I can live with that. But the fact that one person can get the same ra/ex item multiple times, is beyond stupid. I'm going to assume SE made it like this so any ra/ex item can't be sold. But yeah, instead I have to watch a linkshell member get the same ra/ex body 3 times in 4 fights, once on main character and twice on mule, and neither character can equip it. I like voidwatch as an event, but the sheer randomness of drops and the fact that you cannot add any ra/ex item to treasure pool, is discouraging and infuriating and saddening all at the same time.

And no, we don't get equally compensated for our efforts in a vwnm fight. Getting ram horn, ram skin, ahriman tears and ebony log after killing Akvan, isn't being compensated, it's an insult. Even more so when someone who never ever plays mage (he has rdm and whm leveled but not geared or anything), gets the mage body - which he never wanted. At the very very least, getting one heavy metal plate per fight should be guaranteed.

[Insaniac]

Oh that reminds me, the only person who got coruscanti in those 18 kills can't even equip it.

Wait someone actually got one? This is the first time I've heard of one dropping. Not that I've been looking THAT hard.

[Insaniac]

What about Shinryu? He has nothing to do with boxes <_<
Shinryu and a lot of abyssea mobs for that matter won't drop loot if everyone in the party already has it. I assume this was to stop people from shout selling stuff on a whim. Either way the server performs a check on what items everyone has at some point and prevents it from entering the pool. I'm sure that code could be copy/pasted to chests easily enough. Not that it would fix anything. The loot system would still be terrible. Now if it performed the check and instead of making an item just not pop in your chest it made it pop in someone else's if you already had it, that would be a different story.

[Alhanelem]

We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin boots dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The Three people that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the Eight other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.

If you want them to nerf the drop rate into oblivion, sure. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

Basically, it can be one of two things:

Super-low drop rate and normal treasure pool distribution
relatively high drop rate (by comparison at least) and item goes to random people.

Sorry to be Negative Nancy here. But whatever the solution, they're going to be sure you have to do the fight a similar number of times.

[Tamoa]

In that case, I'd take the super low drop rate (not that the drop rate isn't pretty damn bad already) any day. So at least when the item drops, it'll go to someone who wants it and can equip it.

[Harukusan]

I don't like that metal and ra/ex drops share the same placement in boxes. The two should be individual from each other and contain no bullshit drops like wood or rocks... I would rather open a box with literally nothing in it than see a box full of worthless crap.

"Congratulations, adventurer! You defeated the one of the highest tier NMs of Voidwatch! Here, have this black rock. No really, it's all yours. ^^"

[SNK]

The idea of not being able to choose to distribute what items you get in your box to a loot pool is beyond retarded. I seen people with no melee jobs get DD bodies and vice versa multiple times.

Rare being rare is one thing but the loot distribution is stupid.

[Rearden]

If you want them to nerf the drop rate into oblivion, sure. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

Basically, it can be one of two things:

Super-low drop rate and normal treasure pool distribution
relatively high drop rate (by comparison at least) and item goes to random people.

Sorry to be Negative Nancy here. But whatever the solution, they're going to be sure you have to do the fight a similar number of times.

This is your opinion, not ours.

[Alhanelem]

In that case, I'd take the super low drop rate (not that the drop rate isn't pretty damn bad already) any day. So at least when the item drops, it'll go to someone who wants it and can equip it.
I'd honestly rather have more of the item produced. It's not like someone who can't use it yet can't save it for later.

Think about it. if the overall chance of you personally getting the item is the same by either method (Unless you go with people who will let you have the drop no questions asked), wouldn't it be better to see more of that item go around and have it be less rare overall?

Obviously I'd rather have both good drop rates and be able to choose who gets it. But as far as SE is concerned, you tend not to be able to have your cake and eat it too.

[Tamoa]

My main gripe with the loot distribution system isn't so much that people get an item they can't equip (yet). It's much more when the SAME person gets the SAME ra/ex item several times.

[cidbahamut]

I'd honestly rather have more of the item produced. It's not like someone who can't use it yet can't save it for later.

Think about it. if the overall chance of you personally getting the item is the same by either method (Unless you go with people who will let you have the drop no questions asked), wouldn't it be better to see more of that item go around and have it be less rare overall?

Obviously I'd rather have both good drop rates and be able to choose who gets it. But as far as SE is concerned, you tend not to be able to have your cake and eat it too.

What part of eleven R/E boots going to three people says "increased circulation" to you?

[Alhanelem]

My main gripe with the loot distribution system isn't so much that people get an item they can't equip (yet). It's much more when the SAME person gets the SAME ra/ex item several times.
Then I don't think it would be too much to ask for the same R/E item not to drop for someone who already has it.


What part of eleven R/E boots going to three people says "increased circulation" to you? See above. If someone already has it, they shouldn't get another one. Agree fully with that. Still, it's random. How many people did you have there?

[Arylias]

If someone already has it, they shouldn't get another one. Agree fully with that. Still, it's random. How many people did you have there?

We had a full alliance.

[Bigboy]

I'd honestly rather have more of the item produced. It's not like someone who can't use it yet can't save it for later.

Think about it. if the overall chance of you personally getting the item is the same by either method (Unless you go with people who will let you have the drop no questions asked), wouldn't it be better to see more of that item go around and have it be less rare overall?

Obviously I'd rather have both good drop rates and be able to choose who gets it. But as far as SE is concerned, you tend not to be able to have your cake and eat it too.

I think you may have missed the point. It's one thing for someone who can't use the item to get it. You are correct, they may be able to use it one day. It's a completely different thing for someone who already has the item in a group to be the person getting the item in the box. This is not a rich getting richer scenario either. It's a "Let's display to the player that a drop is being completely wasted here" scenario.

In short, I think the argument that not getting to choose who the items go to is valid, but the issue of items going to people that already have them is whats really wrong here.

[Sparthos]

Voidwatch - where you watch the same people send the drops you want to the void.

People have already stated that point systems would have worked to make this system function better but it's been ignored for whatever reason.

[Nianny]

Just to say I loved the emphasis the OP has. Made me chuckle. :)

[Reiterpallasch]

Shinryu and a lot of abyssea mobs for that matter won't drop loot if everyone in the party already has it. I assume this was to stop people from shout selling stuff on a whim. Either way the server performs a check on what items everyone has at some point and prevents it from entering the pool. I'm sure that code could be copy/pasted to chests easily enough. Not that it would fix anything. The loot system would still be terrible. Now if it performed the check and instead of making an item just not pop in your chest it made it pop in someone else's if you already had it, that would be a different story.
That's something that has been in the game for damn near forever, as it applies to all rare/ex items that drop everywhere.

[Insaniac]

That's something that has been in the game for damn near forever, as it applies to all rare/ex items that drop everywhere.
I guess I never noticed it before abyssea because nothing worth paying attention too had a high enough drop rate for everyone to have one.

[Alhanelem]

We had a full alliance.
If you had a full alliance and the same two people got half of that particular drop...

Maybe there is a pattern. Any consistency in their behavior?


In short, I think the argument that not getting to choose who the items go to is valid, but the issue of items going to people that already have them is whats really wrong here. I completely agree with this.

[Zirael]

We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin boots dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The Three people that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the Eight other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.
I did my first Quilins yesterday. 3 fights x18 people, 3 Pairs of Fajin Boots dropped in total. I got 2 of those in a row. Noone got body neck nor any dagger. I think 1 pouch with 6 plates dropped too.
Later on we did 3x Uptala, two Ace's bodies dropped, I got one of them (I have no job that can use it).
There's a VW LS on my server, they've been topping out their alliance with shout people and focusing on Pilx3 for the last week. There were ppl in that LS going 0/94 (as of yesterday's tally, they were shouting today again and probably will be tomorrow too, etc) on ANY R/EX armor-weapons from Pil alone. They keep count for bitter fun.
Welcome to Neo-Dragon's Aery.

[noodles355]

Shinryu and every single mob in the game for that matter won't drop loot if everyone in the party already has it.Fixed that for you. You can't get a Rare drop in the pool if everyone in the party/alliance already has it. This is completely different from Treasure Boxes.

[Phafi]

I did my first Quilins yesterday. 3 fights x18 people, 3 Pairs of Fajin Boots dropped in total. I got 2 of those in a row. Noone got body nor any dagger. I think 1 pouch with 6 plates dropped too.
Later on we did 3x Uptala, two Ace's bodies dropped, I got one of them (I have no job that can use it).
There's a VW LS on my server, they've been topping out their alliance with shout people and focusing on Pilx3 for the last week. There were ppl in that LS going 0/94 (as of yesterday's tally, they were shouting today again and probably will be tomorrow too, etc) on ANY R/EX armor-weapons from Pil alone. They keep count for bitter fun.
Welcome to Neo-Dragon's Aery.

Qilin drops a body?

[Yarly]

If you got the fajin boots, would you still be doing voidwatch? no.
They need you to keep doing things.

[noodles355]

If you got the fajin boots, would you still be doing voidwatch? no.Yes. Toci's Harness says hi.

[Deathbeckons]

the fact that the same people get the same items over and over tells me theres something wrong with the random number generator here. something is causing it to show favor where it shouldnt. its my opinion that s-e needs to rework the system for how things drop (that is, what items actually come up in boxes and who for) entirely.

working through the tiers and spamming mobs it always seems to be the same people in my ls getting items over and over, whereas ive gotten two ra/ex items i actually wanted for the first time after several months within the last week.

at this point i mainly did vwnm for the various ports because i enjoy being able to get places quicker.

[brayen]

voidwatch just outright sucks.
out of like 10? wins we gt about 3 pairs...2 to me<i have 0 use fo them> and one to someone else...long story short they all got tossed. This has happened a bunch of times with many items, its just a lame joke.
You spend whole fight staggering a mob to death, only to have the item go to waste. to m ake things even worse...you cant even get something else if you get an item you dont want, its always "unique item/loot" + other junk.
So not only are you blocking ppl who WANT the item from being able to get it but you are also block people who DO NOT want said item form even getting ANYTHING ELSE. christ iv never seen a heavy metal plate and that's all i even want from the kirin VW pop such a terrible waste of time, i REALLY hope they come up with some better event soon, this stuff just blows
/endrant.

[Zirael]

Qilin drops a body?
No, he doesn't, derp. You might say that neck piece or daggers are equivalents of 'rare' bodies from other NMs. No wonder noone got body... ._.
Point still stands, I got 2 feet in a row, I'd be more than happy to put second pair in alliance's lot pool. Hell, if I wasn't THF main, I'd put both pairs up if some THF/RNG needed them.

[Alhanelem]

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

[Tamoa]

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

I really don't think so - I've seen ra/ex bodies go to secondary characters whose only purpose is to proc a weakness. Other than that they haven't participated in the fight at all. Hell, one of those secondary characters even got the same ra/ex body back to back.

[Taint2]

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

Yeah don't think so. My Mule has Neck/Body off Hahava and was only there for RNG procs.

[Alhanelem]

I suppose not. Still, it seems a little suspicious that you have 18 people and the same "rare" drop drops a whole bunch of times to the same 2 people. Something just seems really odd about that- because really, what are the odds?

[Rearden]

The odds are that it is a stupid system and is implemented poorly and should be changed.

[Alhanelem]

The odds are that it is a stupid system and is implemented poorly and should be changed. Largely goes without saying but doesn't address the question.

[Atomic_Skull]

I suppose not. Still, it seems a little suspicious that you have 18 people and the same "rare" drop drops a whole bunch of times to the same 2 people. Something just seems really odd about that- because really, what are the odds?

Weird shit just happens sometimes and our brains try to find a pattern where none exists.

[Deathbeckons]

Weird shit just happens sometimes and our brains try to find a pattern where none exists.

im not a fan of the idea of coincidences. especially not when they happen this often. something is causing it and its not coincidence.

[noodles355]

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

[Tamoa]

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

If that is the case (which I doubt) I'm screwed since I'm always whm.

I honestly haven't paid attention to how many procs the mules have been getting.

[hiko]

I really don't think so - I've seen ra/ex bodies go to secondary characters whose only purpose is to proc a weakness. Other than that they haven't participated in the fight at all. Hell, one of those secondary characters even got the same ra/ex body back to back.


Yeah don't think so. My Mule has Neck/Body off Hahava and was only there for RNG procs.

stupid enough for being how se implement it: item drop in chest of the people who proced

[Taint2]

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

Definitely not that or BLMs would get all the loot.

[Michae]

I have pretty much given up on VW and never really run it anymore. I normally ran it as smn and I have yet to get anything worthwhile to drop. I have spent hrs and hrs on this and get nothing but crap. Seals for gear I already have +2 or ingots or logs w/e. I havent even gotten a basic ring to drop when other ppl are getting great drops. I still go now and then when I am bored but I never have hope for getting anything. If there is something that increases loot se should at least give us a hint so we could test it better

[Xellith]

My ls is doing voidwatch at the moment with the intent of clearing the zones and then when they finally get around to fixing the stupid drop system we will be ready to go spam it with our 200+ stones. This system is so much fail that I'm considering flying to SE HQ and pooping on their doorstep in protest.

[Tamoa]

In case some people hasn't seen this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9751-dev1007-Voidwatch-Obtaining-Spoils?p=214681&viewfull=1#post214681



I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.


Not quite the feedback I was hoping for, I know that much. :(

[Alhanelem]

Can anyone validate that statement? that the newer ones drop more stuff than the older ones?

[Taint2]

Can anyone validate that statement? that the newer ones drop more stuff than the older ones?


Seems to be the same. Common drop >>> Rare drop >>>>>> super rare drop.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

So it's another "Please change how VWNMs work" thread? I didn't bother reading after the first 2 posts.
Question: Are these people who are not getting the drops using cells and the people getting them are always using them? Concideration?

[Onitaru]

Out of 60 VW runs my most notable item has been Prolix Ring I've traded cobalt/Rubi cells on each pop, and the majority of the NMs I've done have been the last tier. So no I don't think it's connected. When I got my ring I spent more time casting elemental debuffs and stunning than procing.

[Vold]

We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin Boots dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The Three People that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the Eight Wasted other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.Your post has 55 likes, but let me assure you the problem does not lie within the drop system. A simple decrease of the length of time with these encounters is the clear fix.

[noodles355]

Wait, what? A voidwatch fight takes a long time?

[detlef]

He's joking.

[Leonlionheart]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore

[Alhanelem]

Topic title makes me think about writing a "Twelve Days of Voidwatch" song.

[Tagrineth]

If anything, I think SE should make it so Rare drops you get in your box that you ALREADY OWN can be bumped into the Treasure Pool.

That coupled with faster fights and higher drop rates would probably come pretty close to fixing the issue entirely, while still maintaining the integrity of the system as intended.

Make it so when you select to obtain the item from the box, the game detects the RARE conflict and automatically resolves the conflict using the treasure pool. Shouldn't be THAT hard to special-case it for Voidwatch boxes.

[Vold]

I bet if someone forced them to watch a video of another MMO giving 100% drops on a HNM kill that they would start melting.

[Wesa]

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

I really hope they're not doing something like this. I'm pretty much relegated to BRD for all of Voidwatch, which means that my damage count is almost always 0. For any given weakness, I've got a maximum of three songs that can trigger it (for most elements, 1), and my one damage song won't land on anything at all in VW (thanks so much, SE--remind me again why we got a seventh tier on that one?). So mostly what I'm doing is desperately trying to buff people who are being tossed hither and yon by AoE knockback while trying not to get killed by the same, and trying to hit weaknesses which are probably not mine because there are 13 billion BLU and BLM triggers. It sucks enough listening to people after the fight gabbling about how much damage they managed to do (the lowly BRD never gets mentioned) without thinking that SE might be punishing me for not "doing enough" to the thing we're fighting--whatever the heck that might mean.

[Nightfyre]

Pseudorandom drops are for all intents and purposes random, I've seen no rhyme or reason to the distribution of the 10 bodies and miscellaneous other drops we've received. To believe otherwise is almost certainly falling prey to the human tendency to seek patterns in randomness.

EDIT: before someone jumps on "10 bodies", we have done a lot of Voidwatch. We haven't even seen every body either, let alone any of the Zilart path HQ weapons.

[Alhanelem]

To believe otherwise is almost certainly falling prey to the human tendency to seek patterns in randomness.We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think, and computers are technically incapable of being truly random
2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.

Of course, a day's worth of voidwatch runs by one group is far, far from an adequate sample from which to derive any kind of reasonable conclusion.

[Nightfyre]

We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think,
Not going to get into a determinism argument here, though that has nothing to do with why we seek patterns.


and computers are technically incapable of being truly random

Pseudorandom drops are for all intents and purposes random
Think I already covered that. "For all intents and purposes" because the difference between the two is trivial unless you're able to manipulate the pseudorandom option, which is probably a no-go in FFXI given that it's handled server-side.


2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.
Again, this has nothing to do with why we seek patterns. We seek patterns as a survival tactic, as do many other animals.

[saevel]

If you want them to nerf the drop rate into oblivion, sure. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

Basically, it can be one of two things:

Super-low drop rate and normal treasure pool distribution
relatively high drop rate (by comparison at least) and item goes to random people.

Sorry to be Negative Nancy here. But whatever the solution, they're going to be sure you have to do the fight a similar number of times.

Umm you do realize that they ALREADY HAVE A NERFED DROP RATE. Nerfed as in less then 1%. When you defeat a NM you get 18 treasure pools generated, meaning if you see an item once per six runs, then your talking 1/108. If you get a rare item once per 9 runs, then your talking 1/162.

What we have now is the absolute worst of both worlds, random loot distribution combined with ridiculously low drop rate.

SE can't make it worse.

[saevel]

We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think, and computers are technically incapable of being truly random
2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.

Of course, a day's worth of voidwatch runs by one group is far, far from an adequate sample from which to derive any kind of reasonable conclusion.

For one this is based on the combined experience of ever poster on BG and Alla and this forum combined. We know their less then 1%, no need to attempt to shove sunshine up our arses.

And RNG's can be made random, measuring the electric potential between two interconnects inside a CPU down to the sixth decimal place is considered random. Typically RNG's have their seeds salted with entropy accumulated inside an entropy buffer, /dev/random on a Unix OS. For all intents and purposes it's considered random as it is fundamentally unpredictable. The act of trying to read the entropy buffer or the quantum charge would result it in changing and thus be useless for deterministic predictions.

[Leonlionheart]

67 likes, which is about as much as an update from the devs...

Shouldn't that get some fucking attention?

[Alhanelem]

SE can't make it worse. Just watch them.

[Insaniac]

Are they going to lower our .3% drop rates to .15%!?!?!? OOOHHHHH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Tagrineth]

Umm you do realize that they ALREADY HAVE A NERFED DROP RATE. Nerfed as in less then 1%. When you defeat a NM you get 18 treasure pools generated, meaning if you see an item once per six runs, then your talking 1/108. If you get a rare item once per 9 runs, then your talking 1/162.

What we have now is the absolute worst of both worlds, random loot distribution combined with ridiculously low drop rate.

SE can't make it worse.

They said they plan to boost drop rates.

[Alhanelem]

They said they plan to boost drop rates.
Only for the newer ones introduced in the future. e.g. harder fight = better drop rates.


In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

[Leonlionheart]

Only for the newer ones introduced in the future. e.g. harder fight = better drop rates.

I thought he was referring to the current T4 cities T3 zilart/jeuno in context to the previous paragraph

[Alhanelem]

I thought he was referring to the current T4 cities T3 zilart/jeuno in context to the previous paragraph It is vague and ambiguous, but in the post he uses future tense. Maybe Camate can clear it up for us/me.

[Leonlionheart]

I see your point, and it makes a lot of sense but it's just not what I took from it at first read.

Either way as long as they make gear that actually beats out current gear, I won't care about T3Jeuno/Zilart, T4 cities anymore.

If not, iquit

[Arcon]

1) Not as many things are truly random as we think, and computers are technically incapable of being truly random

Computers are perfectly able to handle true randomness. And pseudorandomness is not only "for all intents and purposes" indistinguishable from true randomness, it's completely indistinguishable for humans, that's implied by the definition of the word. So even if something is pseudorandom, it would have no correlation with patterns we read into it.

I'm very sure people are reading too much into this. It's random, and it just sucks. People tend to focus more on the flaws in a system, they notice a lack of drops more than on the actual drops. See the birthday problem, same thing.

[Alhanelem]

Computers are perfectly able to handle true randomness.Funny, that's not what they taught me throughout 4 years of a computer science major.

Yes, pseudo-random means we can't tell it from true randomness. But pseudo-random still != true random.

Yes, we could be reading too far into this, or maybe we're not. More data would help. I'm not about to conclusively declare one state or the other without good data.


they notice a lack of drops more than on the actual dropsIf the topic title is any indication, people are very much noticing the drops just as much as the lack thereof.

[Arcon]

Funny, that's not what they taught me throughout 4 years of a computer science major.

Computers can (and do) use physical phenomena as seeds for pseudorandom algorithms, to generate true random numbers. There's even several internet-services that produce random numbers that you can use.


Yes, pseudo-random means we can't tell it from true randomness. But pseudo-random still != true random.

Just saying it doesn't matter in this context. If it's indistinguishable from true randomness for us, it can't be responsible for us seeing patterns in it.


If the topic title is any indication, people are very much noticing the drops just as much as the lack thereof.

Let me rephrase, people focus on the negative over the positive.

[Buffy]

Camate, on the odd chance you read a thread you've already posted in.

Tell the devs their answer sucks.

[Nightfyre]

Computers can (and do) use physical phenomena as seeds for pseudorandom algorithms, to generate true random numbers. There's even several internet-services that produce random numbers that you can use.
I don't think you fully grasp the concept of randomness, nor the relevance of randomness vs pseudorandomness in this discussion.

[Arcon]

I don't think you fully grasp the concept of randomness, nor the relevance of randomness vs pseudorandomness in this discussion.

Thanks for sharing your highly valuable opinion. I pretty much said the same thing as you though, so good to know we're on the same page.

[Frost]

I woke up with a crazy idea today:

What if Square Enix Incorporated would fix the loot system for Voidwatch?

I mean I like the fights, but as it stands, the loot system makes me feel like I'm being punished for being good at this game.

I read somewhere some person, who's alliance got Eleven Fajin Boots, but only Three People in that alliance got to wear them because the loot system didn't allow for any kind of sharing, and worse yet, the system makes it extremely insulting and/or painful to watch Eight Wasted, highly prized drops that would otherwise benefit the team that worked for them disappear into the ether. I mean literally; they actually had to sit there and watch as their team members threw those prized items away because they were getting duplicate items, they could only hold one, and there was no way to share those items with the group.

Oh wait... That person was me...

There just seems to be something psychological about seeing items you earned go to waste...

I understand the theory behind having your own box.
But you know what? In practice, it's not faring too well.


But then again, what do I know?



It's not like people are agreeing with me or anything...

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/Pbucket17/Red-Arrow.gif

[Tsukino_Kaji]

They're not agreeing with you, they simply have the same opinion about the loot system. It is different.
Don't worry, the best Drop out of 30 runs I've gotten is a gold nugget.

[starfxcker000]

They're not agreeing with you, they simply have the same opinion about the loot system. It is different.
Don't worry, the best Drop out of 30 runs I've gotten is a gold nugget.

So they agree with him?

[Insaniac]

They're not agreeing with you, they simply have the same opinion about the loot system. It is different.Wut????????

[Tamoa]

Come on guys, clearly agreeing with someone isn't the same as having the same opinion as someone, isn't that obvious?

....uh yeah...

[Invadaru]

wow so these boots have a good drop rate unlike everything else?

[Frost]

wow so these boots have a good drop rate unlike everything else?

Sad part is, No, they don't have a "good" drop rate.

You're asking the wrong question.

[Taint2]

Smokk on cerb got the neck item from Qilin 4 times in a row yesterday....

[SpankWustler]

What if Square Enix Incorporated would fix the loot system for Voidwatch?

I have a new theory on why Voidwatch drops work the way they work.

On some fourth dimensional plane, there sleeps a giant being whose single desire is to eat the planet earth. If left to it's own amusements, this creature would pop it's eating-appendage out, eat earth, then go back to sleep. That's the one thing it wants to do.

Somehow, the coding of the Voidwatch loot system is keeping that horrifying giant in check. As of such, it can not be changed. Not now and not ever. The horrible item distribution system of Voidwatch is the only thing protecting all of use from being eaten by a mouth beyond all comprehension.

I've come to think this because whatever the reason is, it's definitely not that the majority of people like how the item distribution system "works".

The system does have a few pluses (mainly that the bro or bro-ette who would be stuck messing with points or whatever that night doesn't have to bring up a tedious Excel sheet), but it brings a huge set of minuses with it that could easily be improved without overhauling the system. Even if it's just destroying EX items in a chest for large amounts of Cruor or something.

[Arcon]

Even if it's just destroying EX items in a chest for large amounts of Cruor or something.

I'd like this a lot actually.

[Harukusan]

Someone in an Uptala group last night got Ace's Mail twice in a row, making it their fourth one. Another person in the same group has gotten four of them before this run. Everyone else in the group has never seen it, in fact the vast majority only gets rewarded with ores and logs. This is just ridiculous.

[Tagrineth]

Really, if anything, SE should make it so if your box tries to give you an EX item you already own, it should then AND ONLY THEN kick the item to the loot pool for others to lot.

Would maintain the integrity of the system, while giving people an incentive to re-do fights they already got the epic drops from, and get rid of ridiculous situations like the OP's.

[Alhanelem]

shameless trying to find a pattern: Are the people getting these items repeatedly on/past that point in the VW hierarchy? Are the people not getting the items the ones who haven't completed the preceeding VW runs?

[Nightfyre]

We've had a couple people get multiple copies of a drop from T3 Zilart despite not having the T3 abyssite, possibly double Fajin but not sure. Can't offer much in the way of information there since we don't do them much and nearly everyone in the shell has the other abyssites.

[Taint2]

shameless trying to find a pattern: Are the people getting these items repeatedly on/past that point in the VW hierarchy? Are the people not getting the items the ones who haven't completed the preceeding VW runs?


I don't have Zilart t3 access since I was out of town the weekend we did it, but have plenty of sky drops, so thats not the case.

I have noticed that when we spam there is always 1-2 people that consistently get the same drop over and over.

[Harukusan]

I, myself, am only on T2 Zilart, and have gotten 3 Fajin boots, and 2 or 3 Houyi's gorgets from Qilin, among a couple other drops from other T3 VW. But never once received a body or HQ weapon (arg I want that Coruscantiiii!!) basically nothing useful except the 2 Strendu's rings I got.

[Taint2]

I, myself, am only on T2 Zilart, and have gotten 3 Fajin boots, and 2 or 3 Houyi's gorgets from Qilin, among a couple other drops from other T3 VW. But never once received a body or HQ weapon (arg I want that Coruscantiiii!!) basically nothing useful except the 2 Strendu's rings I got.


My mule has a body and has never upgraded a single abyssite.

[Alhanelem]

So much for that. :p

[Leonlionheart]

I just want you all to know

I have 7 strendu rings

[Insaniac]

How about this for a pattern? If you have the drop already your drop rate is increased.

[Alhanelem]

Twelve heavy metals
Eleven faijin boots
ten Mollusca mantles
nine Omphalos bullets
eight Ace's Mails
seven Castellean's shields
six Wiglen gorgets
fiiiive tyyyrant's riiiiiiiings
four Magma gauntlets
three Bizen-osafunes
Two turtle doves
and a Faz-heluo ra-di-ant maaaail

[Luvbunny]

They should make these items at least tradeable... it is such a waste. Or at least make it that you have 5 mnts timer where the rare/ex can be traded to the alliance or party members who just completed the said voidwatch - and yes this is a WoW feature that SE should steal right away.

[noodles355]

I just want you all to know

I have 7 strendu ringsI went 1/1 on Strendu Ring, 2/2 on Aliyat Chakram and 1/1 on Ace's Mail. Immidiately sent Chakram and Mail to mule as I don't have a good use for them.

[Frost]

Why not borrow the flag that's used to send stuff to an alt character, and use it to flag the Rare/Ex items as "trade-able" while under the effect of Voidwatch Status? There should be no conflict, because as far as I know there's no Voidwatch next to a delivery NPC....

That would give people a chance to trade each other gear so long as the chest is still there, and as soon as the chest disappears, everything is locked on the character holding the item.

One error I can see in this is making sure voidwatch gear doesn't "reflag" on subsequent runs, and/or other Alt-Sendable gear getting flagged on accident.

[cidbahamut]

The solution is simple and clear as day. The only problem is SE being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate.

[noodles355]

Why not borrow the flag that's used to send stuff to an alt character, and use it to flag the Rare/Ex items as "trade-able" while under the effect of Voidwatch Status? There should be no conflict, because as far as I know there's no Voidwatch next to a delivery NPC....

That would give people a chance to trade each other gear so long as the chest is still there, and as soon as the chest disappears, everything is locked on the character holding the item.

One error I can see in this is making sure voidwatch gear doesn't "reflag" on subsequent runs, and/or other Alt-Sendable gear getting flagged on accident.Could also have it so you could put your casket drops into the treasure pool, but you can only pass/lot whlist under WV status, meaning you couldn't invite someone after killing to lot drops. Of course you'd need a way around flooding the treasure pool with all the other shitty drops, probably just have non R/E items not be pushed out, like relic in dynamis.

[Xellith]

Just remove the rare/ex tag or create a new brand of rare/ex items which can only be traded to people who have the appropriate key items. This would mean that you could trade stuff to people but only if they were up to the correct stage in the voidwatch path....

oh wait nvm staff limitations.

[Malamasala]

You are all spoiled.

Back in my days we had to earn our armors. And obviously if you aren't getting VW drops, you didn't earn them. Put more effort into your prayers to the gods and do something about it on your own!

[Tagrineth]

Really, I still say all they need to do is when a Rare conflict happens from your box, the conflict pushes the item into the treasure pool instead of destroying the duplicate item.

Wouldn't fix VW loot issues completely, but it would fix situations like what I ran into the other night - where, on a Pil run, two Toci's Harnesses dropped... one player's 2nd and 3rd harnesses in a row.

[Xellith]

You are all spoiled.

Back in my days we had to earn our armors.

*stands around DA for 3 hours*
*doesnt claim fafnir*
"damn guess I didnt earn it"

[hiko]

You are all spoiled.

Back in my days we had to earn our armors. And obviously if you aren't getting VW drops, you didn't earn them. Put more effort into your prayers to the gods and do something about it on your own!

playerA: shout and gather people everyday for VW, lead the run, is unlucky with his coffer.
playerB: answer once to playerA shout, get body in his coffer.

now can you tell me who put more effort to earn his armor ? the one who got it, or the other one?

[Leonlionheart]

*stands around DA for 3 hours*
*doesnt claim fafnir*
"damn guess I didnt earn it"

Biggest problem with this game is the randomness of equipment.

Some people go 1/1 E Abj: body, then go 1/1 on HQ synth, then go 1/1 on +3DA +6STP

The next guy could go 1/12 E Abj: body, then go 1/50 on HQ synth, then go 1/320 on +3DA +6STP

One guy laid down, at most (if payed for ABJ), 25ish mil. The other payed (without buying ABJ or pop items) around half a relic.

[Asymptotic]

Confirmation Bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)

[Arcon]

Confirmation Bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)

Peking duck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Duck)

[SpankWustler]

Peking duck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Duck)

List of Futurama episodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Futurama_Episodes)

[Alexsan]

This 'White' Stagger that is going to be implemented in VoidWatch will be rather interesting. They can implement a 100% drop rate and list the top 5 notable items inside the chest if a group successfully staggered 'White' on the NM. The idea of capping lights on one blow is something to look forward to...but perhaps they can go a bit further with this idea.

[Runespider]

Super-low drop rate and normal treasure pool distribution
relatively high drop rate (by comparison at least) and item goes to random people.

The real kicker is that Square decided to do both, the drops are silly rare and the loot system retarded. Double whammy!

The thing is though, as someone above said..we are all doing VW and it's keeping us busy cheaply, so working as intended. You complain about it but you are still doing it and due to having stuff to do still paying a sub.

[Frost]

Strategic bump.

Here's an update!

Since I posted this, I have indeed gotten my Three Faijin Boots, Of the three I could only use one, so Two Wasted. And coincidentally those two extra pairs could have gone to the two people in our linkshell that have been to every fight, and yet to see a pair.

You see, Square Enix Incorperated, there's a fallacy in your previously stated logic of "Adding more items to the game by letting everyone have their own chest" [paraphrased].

Because when you have someone like me, who got Three Meikira Keikogai in a row; that's not three that went into use, it's Two Wasted.

So in reality, your new system is not actually helping and is actually just a complete annoyance. In fact it's breeding ill will and confusion on multiple fronts:

People trying to make sense of this idiocy are trying to see patterns that don't exist.
People are getting mad they don't get rewarded.
People getting mad because new people ARE getting rewarded.
People are getting mad because they can't share their good fortune.
People are getting mad at people for getting good fortune.
People can't enjoy their rewards because their friends still get nothing.
People are mad because they're trapped doing these events for the people that can't seem to get a break!

Speaking of anger... I wasn't too annoyed about the trash that comes with the low drop rate on desired gear, but recently it's become the salt on the wound. Just because of the sheer scale of the problem.

Exhibit A:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/Pbucket17/LOG-ren-and-stimpy-1552749-500-400.jpg
"Log" from the TV Cartoon Ren & Stimpy, Spümcø.

You see that is a generational icon. It was a satire on the absurdity of the concept of receiving a log as a toy. It's a play on the "Pet Rock" phenomenon, and every generation has one.

The problem with receiving a log is that it doesn't come off as a reward. It's an insult, almost satirical, or even sarcastic. That role should not be shared from a game to the players. When you have a reward based experience, like a game, usually the rewards match certain criteria. Receiving "gag" rewards like a log is what you get if you fail. It's the donkey behind 'Door Number 3'. In short, it is usually reserved as a punishment for poor performance.

TO expand... Typically:

1) The Harder something is to do, the Greater the Reward received. (This has always been FFXI's weakest point.)

In the case of Voidwatch specifically:

2) When a device is introduced to Enhance chances of reward, it is generally assumed to function as so.

The 'Spectral Alignment' should noticeably affect the frequency and quality of items received. Since math, logic and perception don't seem to be your company's strong-point anymore, I'll spell it out for you:

0% Blue x 0% Red = Jack Shit
0% Blue x 100% Red = Jack Shit
100% Blue x 0% Red = Log

100% Blue x 100% Red = 1 Item of Good Quality.
100% Blue x 250% Red = 1 Item of High Quality.
100% Blue x 500% Red = 1 Item of Ridiculous Quality.

500% Blue x 100% Red = 5 Items of Good Quality.

500% Blue x 500% Red = 5 Items of Ridiculous Quality.

Now a Log is not "Ridiculous Quality". Neither is an Insect Wing, Beetle Shell, Mythril Ore, etc... But you still see them even if you reach 525% Red(quality).

"Ridiculous" would be 'Currently Desired Crafting Items' on the low end, things like: Flame Gems, Durium Ingots, Phrygian Ingots, etc. On the mid-level of "Ridiculous" you have High Level Scrolls, Riftsand, Silver Mirrors, and stuff like that. Into the upper levels you can get the gear.

As the system currently stands, it appears that Red Light has no bearing on the reward at all. This might be a bug, but we've had people that do not trade cells at all receive gear and items of the same quality as someone that did, in most cases the same amount as well.

So either your definition of Frequency is off, or your definition of Quality is.

If you think Logs and Dirt are exceptionally valuable, maybe we could work out a deal where I pay for my account with them. I could send you an Envelope of Dirt, and some Insect Wings, and we could call it even. I could "Reward" YOUR hard work with the same crap YOU value. How does that sound?

[Frost]

I wonder what the other side of the Planar Rift looks like....

I picture a dozen really pissed off Galkan Lumberjacks and Miners shoving Logs, Ore, and Wild Beasts into a hole trying to plug it up...

[Tamoa]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Also, 11/10 for absolutely brilliantly worded posts. So true, and so funny.

[Nala]

I wonder what the other side of the Planar Rift looks like....

I picture a dozen really pissed off Galkan Lumberjacks and Miners shoving Logs, Ore, and Wild Beasts into a hole trying to plug it up...

This made me laugh... probably a bit more then it should have <.<;

[Vold]

If you think Logs and Dirt are exceptionally valuable, maybe we could work out a deal where I pay for my account with them. I could send you an Envelope of Dirt, and some Insect Wings, and we could call it even. I could "Reward" YOUR hard work with the same crap YOU value. How does that sound?
This is one of the more awesome ideas I've seen on these forums. I strongly support it and suggest that it crosses the devs eyes at all costs to get the point across. There's plenty of wood around here so I could pay for FFXI, forever.

They could spam me with quality content to proc my weakness so I drop better rewards for their time. Eventually they might hit the mark and I'll mistakenly send a silver dollar instead of a log. Work for those rewards, big boys. Since you're such fans of it and all. btw I can drop a gold coin too but it's a .9% drop rate so good luck.
































Suckers.

[Buffy]

So much mad....

[Sparthos]

Gonna go to the Home Depot right now and mail SE some plywood sheets.

[Zinato]

Twelve heavy metals
Eleven faijin boots
ten Mollusca mantles
nine Omphalos bullets
eight Ace's Mails
seven Castellean's shields
six Wiglen gorgets
fiiiive tyyyrant's riiiiiiiings
four Magma gauntlets
three Bizen-osafunes
Two turtle doves
and a Faz-heluo ra-di-ant maaaail

Beat me to it, then again this was months ago I only noticed the thread when it hit main page again. Came expecting one of these songs, even if it had ironic context. Glad someone did it thank you, Alhanelem

[Economizer]

Put more effort into your prayers to the gods

Obviously people doing Voidwatch and not getting gear don't have four-leaf mandragora buds and aren't getting the killshot at exactly 100% full moon while wearing a Spelunker's Hat.

[Cahlum]

Ive lost count with how many times ive done Qilin now, everyone in my ls has got them multiple times and I still not got them once so stupid >.>.

[Zumi]

Join pugs for this all the time and no boots lol

[ThaiChi]

I'm going chime in again on this. I've actually been feeling a bit luckier since giving us 50% more Red alignment. I've been trying to get a Fazheluo Radiant Mail for a while now, even as just a trophy piece. Yet only thing I seem to be able to get out of Voidwrought are Strendu Rings even with the 50% more alignment. The pickups I've joined have ended up being increasingly frustrating, where I get to see notorious gear whores put little effort and go 1/1 on a piece I actually want, an then knowing that I have to be stuck waiting to one day maybe get a body piece I want. In my LS events I've seen that body go to people who don't even have jobs that can wear the body, and while I applaud their luck, I can't help but feel demoralized when fight after fight I'm going to repeatedly get logs and sometimes a MAB ring that I have to let drop to the floor.

I've been doing VW since it was first implemented and what do I have to show for it? AH drops, 1 Marginally good MAB ring and a frustration towards the luck of my fellow LS mates that I would rather be happy for than spiteful. Way to go. Add to lottable spoils {Can I have it?}

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Still never seen a pair on anyone ever or ever heard of a single person saying they got them. What do they do? >.>

[Nala]

+18% movement speed for rng/thf, you could have looked it up easily however.

[Raksha]

The sad part is that Fajin Boots aren't even the rare drop from qilin.

[Sparthos]

I never seen either dagger and I've been through at least 75 Kirins.

[macross]

Drop are based on what job you go as. Go as something different if you're not getting what you want. Coruscanti's went to blm and rdm in my ls.

And if you get one and can't use it so what? It takes a day to get from 1 to 99?

[Sparthos]

Drop are based on what job you go as. Go as something different if you're not getting what you want. Coruscanti's went to blm and rdm in my ls.

And if you get one and can't use it so what? It takes a day to get from 1 to 99?

You're implying some of these drops are worth getting 99 over and that said people who get drops have interest in the class.

Not to mention how demoralizing it is when the LS tank gets the HQ drop 3x in a row while you eat logs and ore.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Drops are based on IP address no one can tell me different.


Drop are based on what job you go as. Go as something different if you're not getting what you want. Coruscanti's went to blm and rdm in my ls.

And if you get one and can't use it so what? It takes a day to get from 1 to 99?

I'm not leveling a job I hate just to equip a rare drop I can't use. For someone who can't use it to get coruscanti or the like, it's mannequin dress up gear. The only thing worse is getting the same r/ex multiple times in a box, but at least those don't take up any more inv space.

[Tamoa]

Drop are based on what job you go as. Go as something different if you're not getting what you want.

Not sure if serious.

[Benihana]

We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin Boots dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The Three People that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the Eight Wasted other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.


Hmm... Seems like I'm not the only one...

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/Pbucket17/Red-Arrow.gif

OH OK! we'll make it so if a person already has the drop, it wont load in their treasure pool!

enjoy ^.^

[Frost]

OH OK! we'll make it so if a person already has the drop, it wont load in their treasure pool!

enjoy ^.^

I'm absolutely ok with that.
It's the main problem here for the most part, seeing the same people get stuff, and watching it go to waste, is exceptionally demoralizing.

It just fucking hurts when you go to help someone that's 0/100+ on an item, and you don't put in any cells, happen to have a stone on you, and get an item you can't use, that they wanted.

It's frigging demoralizing see a piece of gear in your box you already have, and to have to throw a piece of gear on the ground when there's someone right in front of you that can use it, and worse, that wants it.

Yeah. I'd rather not see it at all.

[Sparthos]

I'll take a system that isn't similar to something that often floats in a toilet bowl.

[Krosis]

For any Dev team members that actually bother to read what we write:

After doing hundreds of T3s(Zilart)/T4+(Cities/Jeuno) and getting 0 bodies, I would like to mention that my play time is taking a direct hit. I've missed multiple VW runs and decided to spend the time away from FF because I'm absolutely furious/tired/angry/aggravated/irate/fed up/<<insert synonym here>> with the drop rates in VW. I'm not even going to bother going into any other of the horribly frustrating decisions the Dev team has made.

But if something doesn't happen soon, you're going to lose another FFXI subscriber.

Assuming each VE kill takes ~15 min (which is a HUGE understatement considering it takes forever waiting for 18 people to gather in one space (why? who knows, but it does)), I've spent over 750 hours (>31 and 1/4 days) participating in a frustrating event with virtually zero rewards.

Fix your mistakes.

[Raksha]

I never seen either dagger and I've been through at least 75 Kirins.


I've seen a couple of Luxs (none mine ;_; ), but the only coruscanti I know of went to a guy who can't even equip it.

[Runespider]

Biggest problem with this game is the randomness of equipment.

Some people go 1/1 E Abj: body, then go 1/1 on HQ synth, then go 1/1 on +3DA +6STP

The next guy could go 1/12 E Abj: body, then go 1/50 on HQ synth, then go 1/320 on +3DA +6STP

One guy laid down, at most (if payed for ABJ), 25ish mil. The other payed (without buying ABJ or pop items) around half a relic.

This is what i hate about FFXI endgame (not counting abyssea), they are far too in love with randomness that it means that endgame isn't about working hard for drops or being a good player. It's just about being lucky, you having the best item in the game that took you 4 months of hard work is no more impressive than the person that joined a shout and went afk the entire fight going 1/1 on the drop.

That's not a good foundation to build new 99 endgame on, and the really horrible part is we all know the rest of the endgame stuff they add is going to be just as retarded.

It's really sad that no matter how good you are at these fights, no matter how many shouts you organise there is still the very real possibility that with randomness and drop rates as low as these are that many people that are trying to get these will NEVER get them.

If you actually think about it that way, that there is the very real possibility you will never get that item your trying for from the VWNM because of this drop system, no matter how good you are at the fight, no matter how many times you try and someone else that doesn't care about it and maybe won't even use it will then maybe you will see the reality of it and why it really does need to be changed. Assuming some people don't understand the rage about it right now anyway.

[Frost]

Bumping this since Camate requested Feedback on the voidwatch system. Hoping one of the reps actually reads any one of these threads all saying the same thing:

The Voidwatch Reward system borders on punishment for the participants.

[Tile]

I got 3 Lux, 4 necks, 1 boots, and 3 Hvy. Plate Pouch so far from about 20 Qilins. also went 1/5 on Toci's Harness from Pil. think the most annoying thing is not being able to give these items to others.

I get it you wont let us add things to Treasure pool. but the drop far to random. Thier is only one person in the game making a Killing off VWNMS and loves the Drop rate, And His name is Gekko in Port Jeuno.

[Tamoa]

Thier is only one person in the game making a Killing off VWNMS and loves the Drop rate, And His name is Gekko in Port Jeuno.

Or that little mithra girl in Ru'lude Gardens, who works for M&P's Market. :D

[Insaniac]

Gekko should wear random VW bodies and glow weapons for ultimate trolls. They could change every conquest.

[Tile]

Gekko should wear random VW bodies and glow weapons for ultimate trolls. They could change every conquest.

Gekko should get new gear, and should say something along the lines of "I don't know what you Adventurers are doing, But I'm loving it"

[Frost]

Gekko should wear random VW bodies and glow weapons for ultimate trolls. They could change every conquest.

This made me laugh way more than it should have. Well played sir.

[Frost]

Le Bump...

I still haven't given up Square Enix Incorporated, I hope you haven't either!

Just so you know. Those two people that needed Faijin Boots WAY back in October Still need em!

It's cool I guess, because plenty of people that already have em keep getting em!


"Add to Treasure Pool" would turn Voidwatch into an 'A - Class' event. Just a suggestion; you can have that one for Free!

[darkvision]

i used to like VW when it first come out, now i never wanna do it again, out of all i REALLY want i never seen, but stuff i cant use i get like
7x Anhur Robe (tossed)
3x Coruscanti (all tossed, should have kept one)
14x Heka's Kalasiris (all Tossed)
rediculious amount Silver mirror's (All tossed)

i have gotten nothing from the jeuno T4 5 and 6 while i see same people get everything, its just down right not needed.

basically i have gotten 2 things i want but sadly they are useless now. i just dont fo VW anymore as its just do damn frustrating. also i have seen the same people make 20-50 mil from voidwatch getting the best money items time and time and F&%$ TIME again, ALOT of people want this shit changed but SE wont do it, they dont listen to thier customers they dont care about any player base except the JP part of it. they just care enough to take our money

thats lack of suport to the whole player base, favoritism to the JPs and damn right racism againds non JP players on SE's part. it may be intentional but thats how it looks to me. i just stop playing content like this, make things tansferable to poll or i refuse to take part. SE CAN do it, its just the same idea as abyssea,

only reason i still play is to keep in tough with driends and to help LS msmber out when i can

[Asymptotic]

Lol, 14x Heka's Kalasiris? I bet a lot of people would like to see you lynched.

[darkvision]

i have not mentioned it till now, i know people got pissed of at me cos of the Coruscanti's and i tossed them. thats when i decided not to mention what i got from the chest

[Asymptotic]

It's all right. I got 3 Mekira Mekiogai when all I wanted was a Mantis Eye.

Hey, I made a rhyme!

[Neisan_Quetz]

All of my Rage

[Fupafighter]

When are these claim slips showing up?

[Cybernetic_Empire]

When are these claim slips showing up?

Too late to make any kind of a difference.

[Fupafighter]

i have not mentioned it till now, i know people got pissed of at me cos of the Coruscanti's and i tossed them. thats when i decided not to mention what i got from the chest

Should prolly hold onto 1 so when claim slips show, you can actually sell coru.

[Cybernetic_Empire]

It would be nice if we could get confirmation as to whether they have started working on the ticket system yet. I say this because if they haven't started working on it, then they should allow the community more time to talk them out of implementing it. They need to fix the spoils issue pronto, but I don't want them to waste resources on implementing something that flat out isn't going to help. In the interest of saving everyone's time, they just need to allow the transferring of items from personal chests to the treasure pool.

I know the devs have stated that they don't want to go this route, but the truth of the matter is that it's the simplest and best answer. The ticket system is needlessly convoluted and just plain isn't good enough. There's a whole community of players who participate in the content the devs have made, every minute of every day. Listening to us would be wise as, in this case, we understand the issue and the solution better than you do.

P.S.

Increase the drop rate of Heavy Metal Plates 10-100 fold. You're pissing off your customers.

[Nala]

Even if they do implement the ticket system they promised it wont change anything, their vision for tickets is a useless system, seems like they just going to wait for those with enough motivation to get VW drops to cycle out and let the event die, leaving HMP in a similar category of alexandrite.

[Catsby]

You guys are so lucky. I came back and did voidwatch for like a week with some old friends and got absolutely nothing. so I quit the game again out of frustration.

[Luvbunny]

You won't get it right away unless you are lucky enough. The content is designed as a repeat grind, and it has no measured progression to speak of, just a good old boss battle and hope for the best. That's pretty much how it is now with all new contents - weapon and gear grinds.

[Mahoro]

I'm glad you cleared that up. I don't think the point got across properly in 18 pages of thread.

[scaevola]

Something that is perhaps not mentioned enough in this thread is that one of the, if not the main reason the drop rates sting so much (at least for me) is that Voidwatch is brilliantly-executed and fun as hell otherwise; I'm not exaggerating when I say this is the closest FFXI has ever gotten to...getting itself right, I guess? It combines the scope and tenor of classic FFXIing with the accessibility of the past few years. SE has gotten about as close as anybody's going to get to Monster Hunter in a non-hotkey MMORPG and I cannot say how many ways in which that just rules.

The really frustrating thing is that SE's just recently demonstrated how easy it is to put a redemption system in without cheapening the content: they did it with Nyzul. VW's already tiered, too; if they slapped on Dominion Trophies you could trade up (and perhaps, for the sake of lolbalance, make voiddust more expensive so it would be theoretically more difficult to spam), Voidwatch would be straight up magical.

You guys have accomplished a fairly remarkable thing in Voidwatch; there's no reason why your players' primary experience with it after first impressions ought to be negative.

[Frost]

Soooooooooooooooo...........

It might be a little late for voidewatch, though I will say this on that:

How long has Ahkvan been in the game?
How many times have I killed it?
Why do I still not have a body/weapon?
Pil too?
Quilin too?
Aello too?
Voidwrought too?
and so on....

It's been a while and I DO appreciate the "Pulse Cells" that were added. however...

The chance someone will go to voidwatch for just Pulse Cells is really slim. And Supply/Demand has made them all but unobtainable. Either they are too expensive or outright non-existent. Sure you can blame that on the players if you want.. but really?


Anyways....


Since this theme of this month was "Help out the new guy in charge" I thought it a good time to bump this thread if anything to shine as a beacon that clearly shows:

Do not add/reuse any drop system like the one used in Voidwatch.

It was cruel, demeaning, and the solution to it was as flawed as surviving a car crash only to drive off another cliff to see if you'd survive that one too...

"Add to pool" would have solved every problem with voidwatch.

[Frost]

Oh, and P.S.

When you're sitting there scratching your head wondering why people are complaining about voidwatch drop system despite it being a "success":

The Gear was a success, not the drop system.

I'm sure if you offered a piece of gear in return for someone's pinky finger, you'd receive quite a few in the mail "Next Day Air" no less.

[Zhronne]

It's been a while and I DO appreciate the "Pulse Cells" that were added. however...

Pulse cells were a great idea but I still don't think that going for 5 cells > 1 item was the right thing to do.
Imho they should have just gone 1 cell > 1 item. They are so rare it wouldn't really be gamebreaking to allow for this conversion rate.
But any other <5 conversion rate would ahve been better of course.

[Komori]

Just did Uptala the other day, nine people got Ace's Mail or something like that, it was a good day! Until half of them already had it and were screaming for AT LEAST the NQ Katana, which I obtained.

I will never level SAM; the most light of day it may ever see in my lifetime is only for Maat's Cap.

[lllen]

lol, Pulse Cells, forgot they existed since no one seems to ever get one, I'm the Queen of the Ores when it comes to VW, have never come close to a decent piece of gear.

[Siviard]

I simply will not touch Voidwatch for the simple fact SE refuses to add a "Add Loot to Treasure Pool" option.

And because of that, I've made a mint selling Voiddust to Voidwatch addicts. It's like crack cocaine in Los Angeles in the 1980s....I'm like, my own drug cartel or something. But be careful, I cut it with baby laxitive. You'll get the runs during your run, but it'll make you feel like you got a drop! But then after you come off the high, you find you only got logs and ores. BUT YOU CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF IT!!! You enjoy the feeling of euphoria after you take that hit of Voiddust, you can't help it.....

[Demon6324236]

Just did Uptala the other day, nine people got Ace's Mail or something like that, it was a good day! Until half of them already had it and were screaming for AT LEAST the NQ Katana, which I obtained.

This is how I feel about many things! I have gotten I think 7 Ace's Mail, 1 of which was my 1st run ever, I did probably 3 days worth of runs for a friend though to get him one, and got 1 mail almost every single run, while his box was logs & junk. On the other hand I have had the same with NMs like Kalasutrax, it dropped Ogier's just fine but when it came to Rubeus Spats I took weeks~... Adding to box, or a point system, would be just fine, Pulse Cells were a terrible idea in the end because they did nothing to help the problem with every piece of gear that doesn't shine, and made the ones that do shine a big walking price tag because you have to have 5 of them and they are still just as rare as the item itself!

[Mefuki]

To run parallel to the random chest rewards, SE should just implement a system where after you kill an NM a certain number of times, you can get their rare drop. Killed Uptala 100 times? Take your Ace's Mail. Killed him 200 times? Here's your Murasamemaru. You earned it. You still have the randomness that SE seems to love but now you're working toward a goal.

I know I'll be more encouraged to continue grinding out these fights if I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. This is one of the reasons I loved Trial of The Magians. Sure, it was dull sometimes but you could actually see yourself making progress. You didn't do the trial and then had the moogle botch the upgrade and say, "DO IT AGAIN, KUPO".

Seriously, SE, point systems. They work.

[Demon6324236]

Sounds like you want this Mefuki!
I have posted this idea in many other threads in the past however this is a more in depth look at my idea and how it could be implemented. It has been adjusted to go with current and upcoming changes being made to VW since the idea was originally presented. This is my Voidwatch Ticket Point system!

1 ticket is awarded for each win against a VWNM. Tickets are exclusive to a NM, and are locked to the rifts in the area the NM is spawned in. For instance, when fighting Kaggen in Qufim Island, you will get a ticket for Kaggen's items only upon winning a fight. Also you may only spend these tickets when at one of these rifts. If you are in Lower Delkfutt's Tower you will not be able to spend Kaggen's tickets, instead they will be Akvan's tickets, and only ones retrieved from Akvan may be spent.

Tickets should be just as cruor is, when finishing a VW fight, you will be told the amount you have with the 1 you earned. With enough blue light, such as 500%+, you would earn 2 tickets. Also the amount of tickets you have are only seen at the proper NPCs, or rifts.

To show an example of how a chart would look for drops, I will use Kaggen and its drops.




Example:Kaggen

Notable Drops
-Mekira Meikogai
-Phasmida Belt
-Kaggen's Cuticle
-Mantis Eye
-Heavy Metal

Ticket Buy List
-Mekira Meikogai = 100 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 75 Tickets
-Pulse Cell: Me = 35 Tickets
-Kaggen's Cuticle = 30 Tickets
-Heavy Metal = 5 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 5 Tickets
-Crystal Petrifact = 1 Ticket

Trade List
-Mekira Meikogai = 25 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 20 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 2 Tickets


With this system, R/EX gear does not goto waste, rather it can be used to provide more tickets to go toward the rewards you are pursuing. Items will not seem unattainable, or severely luck based, they will allow players to obtain the items they wish given time and determination! Tickets will only count for the NM in question, you will not be able to have tickets from Kaggen used for Akvan drops, however, this is why Heavy Metal is in the buy list, it provides a use for tickets even if one already obtains all drops while having tickets left over. This would also heighten the supply of Heavy Metal, making Emp95 easier to obtain.

Adding to this, with the new update allowing "Obtain All" to ignore R/EX items in the case you have it already, these could automatically be changed to tickets, allowing for fast disposal of gear unneeded, and giving the player better rewards.



That is my idea for the ticket point system, it would allow a fair chance at rewards given time, would remove the need for wasting R/EX items, increase the supply of items such as Heavy Metal, and give a good reason to keep coming back to VW more and more.

[Camiie]

I like that plan immensely. It actually rewards dedication but still keeps the luck factor for those who need that gambler's rush.

[Calatilla]

It makes sense, which is exactly why SE won't do it. I'm still waiting for my Heka's off Akvan after doing so many runs, lost count a long time ago. Some guy gets 2 in 2 kills and has only killed him 15 times previous.... I think I deserve one by now.

[Mefuki]

Absolutely, Demon6324236, that's precisely what I'm talking about. In fact I've rated that post up whenever you've posted it. This is the kind of system that should be in place everywhere.

[Komori]

It makes sense, which is exactly why SE won't do it. I'm still waiting for my Heka's off Akvan after doing so many runs, lost count a long time ago. Some guy gets 2 in 2 kills and has only killed him 15 times previous.... I think I deserve one by now.

Took me 200 tries to get a Heka's and in that same time I got TWO Omphalos Bullets for my level 12 Corsair.

[Calatilla]

Took me 200 tries to get a Heka's and in that same time I got TWO Omphalos Bullets for my level 12 Corsair.

I'm not going to pull out a random number because that's pointless but I know just from the fact I did 2 whole days worth of runs not counting other random runs doing Akvan that's it's at least over 200 kills.

Probably closer to 3 maybe 4, idk as I said I lost count a long time ago. Keep getting the bullet though, I got 4 of them before I decided to make use of 1 and level my cor. On the upside at least I get plates on a regular basis off him.

[Zhronne]

Demon's idea for tickets is fantastic. A few fixes from my side:


1) 100 is not a good enough number. I'd raise it for the very very rare items (the ones which currently are marked as X on BGwiki)
2) Ticket drop should be completely independent from lights. No 2 tickets if you get capped blue. It's just one ticket, period.
3) I don't see the point of being able to convert tickets only from the rifts and not from an NPC (for example the pulse cells NPC)


Anyway, they already "fixed" VW, which is a "closed" content now and has seen some major rehauls over time. A big thing like this won't happen, people will just eventually start forgetting about VW as new content is introduced.
New Salvo, Meeble Murrows and the new expansion which will suely bring more content as well.

This is kinda worrying though, since Empyreal upgrades depend on Voidwatch.... they'll need to find a way to keep people doing VW even in the future.
Thinking about things on a long run, maybe THIS is exactely the reason why they've been so stingy with drop rates, they want people to keep having interest in VW. If a major % of people stop needing drops from VW and moves to the next content, who will put Heavy Metal Plates and Riftcinders/Riftdross (and even Riftsand, Silver Mirror etc) on the market?



I'm starting to think that, wether right or wrong, this is exactely the reason behind their thinking. I just wish they could have simply said it in a straightforward way.

[Demon6324236]

Demon's idea for tickets is fantastic. A few fixes from my side:


1) 100 is not a good enough number. I'd raise it for the very very rare items (the ones which currently are marked as X on BGwiki)The drop rates on these items seem to be roughly 1% or so, thats why I said 100, it seems like alot to me still honestly because your talking about at least 17 runs of 6 kills each to get that item alone.
2) Ticket drop should be completely independent from lights. No 2 tickets if you get capped blue. It's just one ticket, period.This is only to prevent the possibility of zerging everything becoming the way to do it, it gives extra incentive to cap lights rather than just full attack and wack away. I remember when they said the changes that were made to Prov areas in regards to procs and lights, would be happening everywhere, some people feared it would become a 30 second zerg of the NM in a hope to kill it. Thankfully this wasn't the case but the idea of that possibly happening from this also makes me weary.
3) I don't see the point of being able to convert tickets only from the rifts and not from an NPC (for example the pulse cells NPC)My thinking it is would be recorded as cruor is, meaning to only use 1 NPC for all NMs, and all areas, would probably be fairly chaotic in a number of ways, instead having it at rifts means easy access to all so long as a battle is not currently taking place at all of them (unlikely) and since they would be made like cruor, stored to your character automatically, you wouldn't need to haul them around with you.



Anyway, they already "fixed" VW, which is a "closed" content now and has seen some major rehauls over time. A big thing like this won't happen, people will just eventually start forgetting about VW as new content is introduced.
New Salvo, Meeble Murrows and the new expansion which will suely bring more content as well.This all very much depends on what new content has to offer, how fun it is, and how much time it takes. MBs seems to be 15 minutes, and I think it had a day timer like alot of other events. That means 30 minutes of your day probably, maybe more depending on a few things like gearing, gathering, where it is, and all of that. The same can be said of Salvage, a few hours at most, so between these alone, its 2~3 hours, for some players that is a long time, others it will barely scratch the surface. The expansion is still months away, its in 2013, which is at least a good 4 months, and probably more like 6~7. So to count any current content as finished would be a somewhat bad idea.


This is kinda worrying though, since Empyreal upgrades depend on Voidwatch.... they'll need to find a way to keep people doing VW even in the future.
Thinking about things on a long run, maybe THIS is exactely the reason why they've been so stingy with drop rates, they want people to keep having interest in VW. If a major % of people stop needing drops from VW and moves to the next content, who will put Heavy Metal Plates and Riftcinders/Riftdross (and even Riftsand, Silver Mirror etc) on the market?See thats part of the idea behind this system as well, the items like that would be added to ticket lists as well, so they can have higher supply in the market and players will be encouraged to continue VW for more of them. Right now its still luck dependant, so some are chased away by that alone, I myself at times see shouts for Qilin and such NMs, and don't go simply because I think I will get nothing for it.

I hope that gives you some ideas why I said things the way I did in my ramble of an idea, however if you still disagree I understand, not everyone will like the same ideas.




I'm starting to think that, wether right or wrong, this is exactely the reason behind their thinking. I just wish they could have simply said it in a straightforward way.SE always does this though so honestly nothing surprising to me. They don't often choose to tell us much detail for things, its kinda an "Eat your pees and like it!" kinda thing.

[Zhronne]

The drop rates on these items seem to be roughly 1% or so, thats why I said 100
Nah it's much lower, something like ~0.3%, maybe even lower. And that's with capped lights/cells (supposing they do something and it's not just a placebo effect).
Imho these key items thing should be a really long term thing to do, much longer than your numbers. If someone is lucky and gets the drops he wants before time then all the better, otherwise he can keep doin the NM to collect tickets.
I'd say 300 is the minimum number for those tickets that would be considered "acceptable" by SE, probably even 300 wouldn't seem enough to them.
If you ask me, I'd take even 500 or higher. At least I'd know I WOULD get the item after a certain amount of fights. I'm sure me and all the people who are currently 0/750+ on a certain item would be more than glad.
But alas, we all know we're just talking about reveries and dreams because we're all aware another major rehaul to Voidwatch will NOT be coming, right? :(


This is only to prevent the possibility of zerging everything becoming the way to do it
People would still zerg and people would still cap lights. Or you're saying that when people cap lights they do not zerg? It's both things at the same time, honestly. And peoeple will still have incentive to cap lights because of the other items that drop from VW. Plates, mats and soldable ones for instance.
So no, imho it should just be one KI per fight, no matter what happens, period.
Good luck zerging higher tier mobs without procs anyway.


meaning to only use 1 NPC for all NMs, and all areas, would probably be fairly chaotic in a number of ways
I guess there are pros and cons in both solutions. But from a programming point of view it's probably easier for them to put everything on a single NPC instead than updating each rift with custom menus.
After all this thing should be applied only to high tier VW NMs only.
Cities T4, Jeuno T3, Zilart T3 etc.
We don't really need to make this viable for all the other VW NMs who have farily acceptable drop rates already and you can get what you want usually in under 50 runs.
A single NPC with some submenus seems a better solution overall, imho.



This all very much depends on what new content has to offer, how fun it is, and how much time it takes.
"fun".
Because people do VW for "fun", rite? xD
I dunno, it's unrealistical to expect all the upcoming events to be a success, but it's also unrealistical to expect all of them to be a failure.
It's kinda obvious to me that some of these will work and will slowly drive people's interest from VW.
Supposing that happens, I wonder which steps will SE take to make so Empyreal upgrades will still be viable even when way less HMPs and Rift-stuff will be put on the market.



The expansion is still months away, its in 2013, which is at least a good 4 months, and probably more like 6~7.
Way more than 4 imho, but I may be proved wrong.
Still this doesn't change anything, not like 7 or 8 months from now people won't have Empy trials to get through. As long as Relic/Empy/Mythic will remain the higher tier of weapons FFXI jobs can use, there will always be people in need of those trials, as long as there are players and the game is running.



See thats part of the idea behind this system as well, the items like that would be added to ticket lists as well
Personally I'm against adding non R/E items to the ticket thing.
But this is really an issue SE will have to address sooner or later.

Because it's bound to happen, no matter what the new events will be, people will eventually stop/slowdown doing Voidwatch, which will mean less trial materials on the market, which will mean higher prices etc.
And how will SE address this?
Either they will refuse to acknoledge the issue, disappointing even furthermore the already disappointed players who went the Empyreal way, or they will come up with a late solution, as their usual.

I'm even more convinced this is why they've been so reluctant in changing the VW system or the drop rates, and why the only solution they came up with so far (the Pulse thing) has been so minimal and so "unfair".
They were afraid people would have just "rushed" through VW and asked for more events, stopping to do VW.
It's kinda what happened in Nyzul too when people mass-used Clipper and other third party tools, but this is on a much larger scale because VW is not just an event to keep people busy as they prepare more stuff to do.
VW is an event which provides important resources on the market for ALL PLAYERS.
So either they make those resources available through other means, or they'll be forced to revamp VW even again.

Their refusal to fix VW drop rates is a clear message that they wanted the event to last as long as possible as they were trying to decide another long-term/permanent solution.
It's pretty clear VW in its current state won't be a permanent solution to the issue.

Take Relics and Mythics. People can easily farm for the trials they need for their weapons. Is it easy? Is it hard? Whatever, they can do it.
Try to "farm" for 1500 plates or 60 rift-things alone instead, without buying them. So you see, for this kind of trial you NEED to have those materials flowing on the market, or the whole system built around those trials will crumble and will stop working.


So yeah, either they'll be forced to fix VW in the future, or they can make HMP and Rift-stuff drop from other sources.
If you ask me, revamping would be the "right choice", but the second one is what is eventually going to happen, much easier for SE to handle probably.

[Demon6324236]

"fun".
Because people do VW for "fun", rite? xDYour right, I should have said rewarding.
Supposing that happens, I wonder which steps will SE take to make so Empyreal upgrades will still be viable even when way less HMPs and Rift-stuff will be put on the market.I expect the Alexandrite treatment. They see its broken, they see its not done, and they do nothing to fix it, just this time would be on a worse scale seeing as you would need to pay 200~300k a fight, then after that fight you would have to get lucky, that or you will be required to have a linkshell willing to go to VW and help, which if VW was to get to this point, few people would have incentive to do it still I would think.
Way more than 4 imho, but I may be proved wrong.
Still this doesn't change anything, not like 7 or 8 months from now people won't have Empy trials to get through. As long as Relic/Empy/Mythic will remain the higher tier of weapons FFXI jobs can use, there will always be people in need of those trials, as long as there are players and the game is running.Well honestly I again could see it becoming like Mythics but on a lesser scale. Alot of people will get an EM for a job, then either get it to 90 and leave it, or get it to 85~90 and make a Relic to replace it. Leaving only truly dedicated players the ability to get a lv99 Emp, or requiring a linkshell for it.

EDIT----------------------------------------------------------

Small note.

Nah it's much lower, something like ~0.3%, maybe even lower.I would have to disagree from experience with items from it. I would say weapons have that low of a rate, however bodies not so much. I got the Mex body off of Hahava 3 times in 5 fights only a few days ago. 2 on my Mule character, and 1 on my GF's.

[Zhronne]

Yeah of course I was talking about Pulse Weapons, sorry if I didn't specify.
Don't even think bodies are marked as "X" on BGwiki, their drop rate should be "V" I think, so yeah, like 3-5% approx, I think?

And as for Mythics, they are "in theory" fixing Mythics with neosalvo.
Their plan was to make so getting lv99 of Relic, Mythics and Empys would be the same level of difficulty.
Atm Relics and Empys are very close to each other (with Relics being a bit easier imho) while Mythics are completely off scale.
If they succeed (but will they?) in rebalancing mythics as well then... uhm... then things would be "balanced" for the time being, but in the long run Empys would still get fucked by the lack of HMPs/Riftstuff on the market.

But yeah, you're right, it's very much likely they just won't give a fuck about it and refuse to fix it just like they did for many other things over time.

[Camiie]

Maybe they'll fix it in 5 years when only empyrean farmers care anymore. Obviously gear must become largely irrelevant before meaningful adjustments can be made.

[Vivivivi]

Please... add to lottable spoils option.

[Ryanx]

voidwatch needs to be changed to a 1 loot pool system with higher drop rates on pulse gear. If they did that it would make for a awsome LS event

[Camiie]

voidwatch needs to be changed to a 1 loot pool system with higher drop rates on pulse gear. If they did that it would make for a awsome LS event

But would essentially ruin it for shout groups. I don't think the individual loot system in and of itself is the issue here. I really don't want to turn loot distribution back over to LS leaders and questionable player-driven DKP systems. All they have to do is add a simple point or token system to VW where we can actually earn our pulse gear over time.

[Demon6324236]

Another thing they could do as well that is a combo between the 2. I have yet to beat Prov due to laziness and not wanting to join shout groups much, but from what I understand you don't only get items from your trove but also direct drops. If thats the case why not change all of VW to this method? That would give more drops to a party as well, while giving everyone their own drops at the same time, nothing is lost, only gained.