Gjallarhorn Buff - Is it ever going to happen? [Archive]

Creelo

10-17-2011, 01:08 AM

Ok, this a post regarding an update on the future of Gjallarhorn.

Is Gjallarhorn ever going to receive anything other than more Chr/Skill and/or "All Songs +4" once it reaches 99?

Please, tell me so.

Did that last Gjallarhorn post mean anything? >.< I'm not alone on this matter.

As every other Relic has proceeded up through the lvl updates, they've received weaponskill buffs, Increases in their hidden occasionally deals 2-3 times base dmg proc rates, along with their "normal" boosts like increased base dmg, Acc/Att, and are up to a IV Tier of their special traits. Aegis has now long ago received its revolutionary MDT buff, yet Gjallarhorn... has by far received the most lackluster updates of all the Relics.

I'll just briefly summarize why increases in Skill/Chr are so lackluster, which was posted in the last Gjallarhorn post...

The Chr/Skill on Gjallarhorn is hardly needed, at all. I don't remember the last time I've needed to drag out my ToM M.Acc Affinity staves from my Mog Sack due to resists, probably for something in VW, but with Ascetic's Drinks in VW now... Extra M.Acc (and by extension, Chr and Skill from Gjallarhorn) isn't really needed for Brd.

"All Songs +3" is nice, and it seems expected that it'll go up to "All Songs +4" but it's not as nice as it once was. Ballad potency (Refresh) and basic MP Recovery is largely and easily available now. Extra March potency is nice, but we're already near the Magical cap anyways (if we use Marcato with Victory March, we've hit the cap). The potency boost to Scherzo is nice (even though it's only 3%~), but it's nothing to write home about because it's so small and Scherzo is so situational. The boost to Pining Nocturne is rather moot because it doesn't stack with Addle, so joyous day! -.-

Perhaps the nicest trait of Gjallarhorn is that you can save several spaces of immediate inventory; this shouldn't be the best aspect about Gjallarhorn.

Please update us on Gjallarhorn's future.

--Is it going to receive Massacre Elegy? The Brd Manifesto seemed to highly allude to this, but there was no real confirmation. Please just tell us and don't beat around the bush.

--If it's not going to receive Massacre Elegy, could it obtain a different specific, new, useful buffing song worthy to be on Gjallarhorn? Perhaps this song could be similar to Embrava from Schs and give multiple enhancements.

--Could it possibly obtain two songs, perhaps a debuff like Massacre Elegy and a buff song? (I realize this question could be asking for too much, just curious)

The updates for Gjallarhorn don't compare at all to what the other relics have been receiving, please address this.

I know the dev. team is trying to focus on jobs like Sch, Thf, Drg, and Drk (iirc, perhaps more or less), but please address the lackluster buffs Gjallarhorn has been receiving. At least just tell us what the dev. team would like to do for Gjallarhorn in the future.

Retsujo

10-17-2011, 11:41 AM

They haven't even provided us the fix in Requiem. Give the devs some time. There's not many of them and there's only so much they can do at one time. Obviously BRD isn't at the top of the list right now.

Which sucks, but when the time comes, we'll get what we deserve :)

Babekeke

10-19-2011, 04:33 AM

Obviously BRD isn't at the top of the list right now.

Which sucks, but when the time comes, we'll get what we deserve :)

WAR (negative), COR (3 dice rolls without needing an empy wasn't enough, it seems?), SCH, PUP and DRG are the 'top of the list' jobs right now.

Kind of ironic, the only reason I levelled BRD was because it was guaranteed to get me a meripo back at 75 (unlike my other 3 75s: THF BLM and SMN), yet now, noone cares to invite a brd even to an exp pt, let alone end-game apart from maybe 1 BRD in VW, or in aby if no BLMs have /BRD, and these seem to be only for procs.

Obviously I've never been invited to abyssea NMs as BRD, since I have BLM95 so I can BLM/BRD. I doubt if my skills have gone up more than 5 levels from their cap at 75 Q.Q

Creelo

10-19-2011, 05:53 AM

Yeah, honestly I just wanted this post to serve mostly as a reminder to the Dev. Team/Reps to say that "Hey, there are still people that actually play Brd! And we're still waiting on if Gjallarhorn is ever going to receive a buff to help catch it up to other Relics."

The Brd community seems so small nowadays (Just look at the dead Brd Forums X.x), that I feel Gjallarhorn and Brd in general is easily forgotten about.

Edit: forgotten, not forgot... x.x

detlef

10-19-2011, 06:05 AM

BRD forums are always dead, simply because there isn't much to discuss about the job.

As for Ghorn, look how good Aegis got. I'm hoping for and expecting a buff of that magnitude. +4 songs isn't good enough.

Flionheart

10-19-2011, 02:26 PM

BRD is oft forgotten and neglected, that's why there's still issues with spells like Requiem and the reason that the awful songs still haven't received buffs.

On topic:

I'd be pretty upset if the Ghorn got an unique buff. Not so much for Massacre Elegy, but I think giving it a buff would either put a Ghorn BRD way ahead of non Ghorn BRDs or would be too crappy to matter.

VoiceMemo

10-19-2011, 08:15 PM

Well if we don't get Massacre elegy on Gjallarhorn, I'd at least want the power associated with Gjallarhorn at 75. At 75 we had 2.3x the amount of power to ballad as a normal bard. At 75 it was normal bard 3mp/tic and Gjallarhorn brd 7mp/tic. With current relic/gear Gjallahorn brd get 13mp/tic vs normal brd of 9mp/tic.

I've felt that we've lost power as we've leveled up, that Gjallarhorn's increase in power has not kept up with other relics because the difference in power between a normal brd and a Gjallarhorn brd has lessened.

Currently as it stands it's only 1.4x that of a normal bard, which is frankly why brds get Gjallarhorn. The saving in inventory space i've always considered as a hidden effect bonus. As it stands IF Gjallarhorn was increased to 21mp/tic I would be fine with it since we would have the same power difference as before. But this is unlikely, Gjallarhorn would have to be increased to all songs +7 to make 21/tic with current gear. (Ballad 3 + AF3+2 pants + all songs +7 + Ballad 2 + AF3+2 pants + all songs +7) (3 + 1 + 7 + 2 + 1 + 7) = 21

Flionheart

10-20-2011, 01:45 AM

Making it augment songs with different effects would be a pretty nice boost. Like Minuets give critical hit damage+ or Minne's give DT-.

Creelo

10-20-2011, 07:10 AM

On topic:

I'd be pretty upset if the Ghorn got an unique buff. Not so much for Massacre Elegy, but I think giving it a buff would either put a Ghorn BRD way ahead of non Ghorn BRDs or would be too crappy to matter.

Relic WSs get their own, unique WSs, several of which still currently kinda suck. But some are quite powerful and give great utility (GA, GKT, Relic Gun, Scythe largely come to mind). There's a very clear difference between players with these kind of Relics, and those who don't. There's a big difference (or at least should be x.x) with a Pld with Aegis and one without (discounting Ochain, and Emps in general in this point).

However, in the case of Gjallarhorn, the difference between Brds that have Gjallarhorn and those that don't is dwindling more and more with each lvl cap increase. It's truly quite pathetic at the lvl 95 cap. If a player has worked hard enough to earn a Relic, there should at least be a fair difference between themselves and players that don't have that Relic.

I would be worried too if they gave Gjallarhorn some crappy buff song (Death Resistance Song I could see, ugh, could be good, but far too situational and shouldn't really be needed with proper stuns x.x), but even if they did give it a strong buff song, why be so resistant to it? Heaven forbid you should feel inclined to get a Gjallarhorn for reasons other than saving inventory space. Relics are meant to be desirable, and one reason why you don't see all too many new Gjallarhorns nowadays is because it isn't very desirable compared to other options, and especially compared to how it used to be at the lvl 75 cap.

Creelo

10-20-2011, 07:26 AM

Flionheart

10-20-2011, 08:11 AM

Creelo

10-20-2011, 08:59 AM

The difference is that no relic weapon ever has put the user tiers upon tiers ahead of other people without the relic. Giving a buff song that is adequately strong enough to justify the work put in for the relic would make the BRD who had it completely overpowered compared to those without.

If anything the Carnwenhan should get a bigger buff, because it is trailing behind both instruments.

The problem is that Gjallarhorn doesn't put the Brd up to another tier at all compared to those without. We don't know what kind of buff song it would be (if it even will get one), so to say Brd with Gjallarhorn buff like you said would become "completely overpowered" is subjective and moot. Your definition of "completely overpowered" isn't defined at all either.

Relics like Aegis/Apoc/Gun do put those players noticeably ahead of those without when properly used.

Carnwenhan is a little underwhelming; however, I'd still choose it over a Gjallarhorn given the choice. Carnwenhan's great for Brd's who need to multitask, Main heal, or be heavy support. I would absolutely love to have an extra 42 seconds on songs (believe it's currently 42 anyways, 24 + 6 + 6 + 6 = IV?) to allow for me to do other support roles like Curing, Hasting, etc. All Gjallarhorn would provide is pretty much extra MP that isn't needed...

At the current cap, I'd definitely rank Duardabla > Carnwenhan > Gjallarhorn.

Finally, you always relate the idea of a Gjallarhorn buff "to those without." The difference between a Gjallarhorn Brd a Non-Gjallarhorn Brd atm is unnoticeable. What would the Brd's without Gjallarhorn be worried about if their Relic finally received a proper buff on the scale of Aegis?

VoiceMemo

10-21-2011, 06:22 AM

The problem with all of this is that Ballad isn't really a big deal anymore lol MP regeneration has just become so easy with Atmas, Atmacites, and Temp Items.

Anyways Gjallarhorn's best use with Ballads can really only be brought out if the same Brd also has a Daurdabla, leading to an 18mp/tick with Ballad x3 after the first cycle of songs.

Besides, Gjallarhorn will never receive "All Songs +7" lol

Well I did say that this possible change was unlikely. I fully support Massacre Elegy as being a Gjallarhorn worthy song.

I didn't factor in Atmas, Atmacites, and Temp Items because I wanted to compare the power of a 75 brd with that of a 95 brd. In terms of that comparison we have gotten weaker in relation to the ballad power multiplier compared to a normal brd. At 75 our ballad was 2.3x as potent as a normal brd and now at 95 our ballad is only 1.4x as potent as a normal brd. I make this comparison because I've yet to meet any Gjallarhorn brd that obtained the relic for reasons other than ballad, since at the time it was the only instrument that affected ballad.

saevel

10-25-2011, 10:13 PM

Relic WSs get their own, unique WSs, several of which still currently kinda suck. But some are quite powerful and give great utility (GA, GKT, Relic Gun, Scythe largely come to mind). There's a very clear difference between players with these kind of Relics, and those who don't. There's a big difference (or at least should be x.x) with a Pld with Aegis and one without (discounting Ochain, and Emps in general in this point).

However, in the case of Gjallarhorn, the difference between Brds that have Gjallarhorn and those that don't is dwindling more and more with each lvl cap increase. It's truly quite pathetic at the lvl 95 cap. If a player has worked hard enough to earn a Relic, there should at least be a fair difference between themselves and players that don't have that Relic.

I would be worried too if they gave Gjallarhorn some crappy buff song (Death Resistance Song I could see, ugh, could be good, but far too situational and shouldn't really be needed with proper stuns x.x), but even if they did give it a strong buff song, why be so resistant to it? Heaven forbid you should feel inclined to get a Gjallarhorn for reasons other than saving inventory space. Relics are meant to be desirable, and one reason why you don't see all too many new Gjallarhorns nowadays is because it isn't very desirable compared to other options, and especially compared to how it used to be at the lvl 75 cap.

With all respect to BRDs out there, join the club <kidna>. I mean have you seen the other "relics"? Most are kinda crappy, especially once you compare them to Emperians or even just the available Lv 90+ weapons. Gjallarhorn used to be the best Relic in the game, next was Aegis, then after that Amano and the Gun, then everything else.

Which brings me to a point, what do you want on your relic instrument? Someone said not CHR / Skill, which means your already capping accuracy / potency? And not "songs+x" which means no bonus potency on top of cap? I'm not wanting to be a dick but just trying to find out what exactly your expecting? G.Horn was awesome because back at 75 refresh was measured in the single digits and you could provide 7mp/tick on your own, which was epic for many things. This has mostly stayed the same, you can provide 11mp/tick, a 57% increase in MP regeneration, along with making your haste buff better, which we all know only gets better the more you stack.

As for the "BRD's not being desired", I'm sorry but that's complete horse sh!t. Yes your not top pick in the perfect four man "Abyssea" group, but neither are the other 16+ jobs in the game. Your still desired as there are buffs that a BRD gives that can make fights much smoother. Our LS has one G.horn BRD in the tank party at all times, together we give the WHM +18mp/tick to her own +2mp/tick and thus enabling her to spam Cure V constantly outside of abyssea. Our setup is PLD x 2 RDM BRD WHM <other>, usually a THF. You guys also have Cure IV, erase and -na from /WHM, and while not having a large MP pool you have insane MP regeneration from the RDM and your own songs. So I really don't get why anyone would feel a BRD isn't desired, their awesome and extremely useful. Their just not the ZOMG here have all our loots type desired like back at 75.

Creelo

10-26-2011, 12:52 AM

With all respect to BRDs out there, join the club <kidna>. I mean have you seen the other "relics"? Most are kinda crappy, especially once you compare them to Emperians or even just the available Lv 90+ weapons. Gjallarhorn used to be the best Relic in the game, next was Aegis, then after that Amano and the Gun, then everything else.

This is not a Relic vs. Empy discussion, even though Daurdabla is overall much better than Gjallarhorn.

Which brings me to a point, what do you want on your relic instrument? Someone said not CHR / Skill, which means your already capping accuracy / potency? And not "songs+x" which means no bonus potency on top of cap? I'm not wanting to be a dick but just trying to find out what exactly your expecting?

If you've read any of the forums about Gjallarhorn, you'd know that we want some type of specific song just for Gjallarhorn, whether this be a debuff (Massacre Elegy) or a buff, we'd have to wait and see. Basically, while all the relic weapons have been receiving all of these "hidden" buffs such as Relic WS Dmg+25%~ and increased Occasionally deals 2-3 times damage proc rates, and Aegis received its huge update to break the MDT limit, Gjallarhorn hasn't really received anything out of the ordinary.

If you have a Gjallarhorn, you are already gonna be capping potency for all buffs (only relevant buff to try to cap atm is Scherzo anyways) The CHR/Skill bonuses are like the Acc/Att buffs on other relics, they're expected to go up anyways. The "All Songs +3" is nice, but extra refresh isn't really needed as much these days, and Scherzo is quite situational. "All Songs +4" really won't change Brd much either.

G.Horn was awesome because back at 75 refresh was measured in the single digits and you could provide 7mp/tick on your own, which was epic for many things. This has mostly stayed the same, you can provide 11mp/tick, a 57% increase in MP regeneration, along with making your haste buff better, which we all know only gets better the more you stack.

First, a Gjallarhorn Brd should be hitting 13mp/tick due to AF3+2 pants. Anyways, too bad any old Brd can easily get Ballad +2 nowadays from regular gear and provide 9mp/tick, which should be more than enough due to other forms of MP regeneration.

As for the "BRD's not being desired", I'm sorry but that's complete horse sh!t. Yes your not top pick in the perfect four man "Abyssea" group, but neither are the other 16+ jobs in the game. Your still desired as there are buffs that a BRD gives that can make fights much smoother. Our LS has one G.horn BRD in the tank party at all times, together we give the WHM +18mp/tick to her own +2mp/tick and thus enabling her to spam Cure V constantly outside of abyssea. Our setup is PLD x 2 RDM BRD WHM <other>, usually a THF. You guys also have Cure IV, erase and -na from /WHM, and while not having a large MP pool you have insane MP regeneration from the RDM and your own songs. So I really don't get why anyone would feel a BRD isn't desired, their awesome and extremely useful. Their just not the ZOMG here have all our loots type desired like back at 75.

Don't think this is directed at me because I never said Brd wasn't desired (Personally I don't see how it can't be desired, since it's the only job to easily allow jobs to hit the magical Haste cap 60%+ of the time through Marcato/Troubadour +March, March. Sch requiring their 2hr to do so is kinda blegh, unless inside Abyssea. Not to mention Brd can stack Carnage Elegy with Slow/II, although not Nocturne with Addle... derp!)

I'm assuming you're talking about Voidwatch with that set up? In that case, you should be hitting weaknesses enough to allow for your MP to be mostly sustained through your temps. Personally I don't remember the last time I've ever truly needed a Rdm's Refresh II, and I'm the type of Brd to constantly be casting Cure IV/Haste/-Nas/SS/Blink/etc. whenever possible lol

In any case, all Whm's should strive to get more auto-refresh from gear than just 2mp/tick from their AF3+2 body... :/

In the end, if you haven't lvl'd up Brd past lvl 1, you should probably stay out of the forums, or at least read them before putting in your input.

detlef

10-26-2011, 04:06 AM

Huh? Yeah BRD is great. The only reason it wasn't on top during Abyssea is because the content was easy enough that you could trade BRD for another procing job or dump it altogether for BLM/BRD.

Incidentally I can give my WHM +18 mp/tic if I wanted to (I don't usually do 3 ballads because it's overkill) and Owleyes, Stearc Subligar, and Serpentes are pretty standard for idle. Wivre Hairpin and Moonshade I place on a different level as far as expecting people people to have it goes.

I want a Ghorn buff. People don't seem to realize that the +3 or +4 or w/e on Ghorn is rendered meaningless if +3 and +4 instruments are provided. Even if they don't exist (hello Celaeno).

Creelo

10-26-2011, 06:04 AM

Totally agree on Ballad x3 lol

Like Flionsaid earlier, I really wish we had another more mage friendly song buff, but those types of buffs seem to belong to Cor. <.>

I want a Ghorn buff. People don't seem to realize that the +3 or +4 or w/e on Ghorn is rendered meaningless if +3 and +4 instruments are provided. Even if they don't exist (hello Celaeno).

I think this pretty much sums up my own opinions about Gjallarhorn. I feel like Brd's just so often forgotten about, that the potency of their relic was too. Even if it goes up to "All Songs +4," Gjallarhorn's overall usefulness is still going to be pretty blegh. Who the heck knows what other awesome buffs Relic weapons are gonna be receiving at lvl 99 as well, but they'll probably be better than what Gjallarhorn's gonna get if it stays on its current upgrade track. x.x

saevel

10-26-2011, 09:20 AM

This is not a Relic vs. Empy discussion, even though Daurdabla is overall much better than Gjallarhorn.

If you've read any of the forums about Gjallarhorn, you'd know that we want some type of specific song just for Gjallarhorn, whether this be a debuff (Massacre Elegy) or a buff, we'd have to wait and see. Basically, while all the relic weapons have been receiving all of these "hidden" buffs such as Relic WS Dmg+25%~ and increased Occasionally deals 2-3 times damage proc rates, and Aegis received its huge update to break the MDT limit, Gjallarhorn hasn't really received anything out of the ordinary.

If you have a Gjallarhorn, you are already gonna be capping potency for all buffs (only relevant buff to try to cap atm is Scherzo anyways) The CHR/Skill bonuses are like the Acc/Att buffs on other relics, they're expected to go up anyways. The "All Songs +3" is nice, but extra refresh isn't really needed as much these days, and Scherzo is quite situational. "All Songs +4" really won't change Brd much either.

First, a Gjallarhorn Brd should be hitting 13mp/tick due to AF3+2 pants. Anyways, too bad any old Brd can easily get Ballad +2 nowadays from regular gear and provide 9mp/tick, which should be more than enough due to other forms of MP regeneration.

Don't think this is directed at me because I never said Brd wasn't desired (Personally I don't see how it can't be desired, since it's the only job to easily allow jobs to hit the magical Haste cap 60%+ of the time through Marcato/Troubadour +March, March. Sch requiring their 2hr to do so is kinda blegh, unless inside Abyssea. Not to mention Brd can stack Carnage Elegy with Slow/II, although not Nocturne with Addle... derp!)

I'm assuming you're talking about Voidwatch with that set up? In that case, you should be hitting weaknesses enough to allow for your MP to be mostly sustained through your temps. Personally I don't remember the last time I've ever truly needed a Rdm's Refresh II, and I'm the type of Brd to constantly be casting Cure IV/Haste/-Nas/SS/Blink/etc. whenever possible lol

In any case, all Whm's should strive to get more auto-refresh from gear than just 2mp/tick from their AF3+2 body... :/

In the end, if you haven't lvl'd up Brd past lvl 1, you should probably stay out of the forums, or at least read them before putting in your input.

So basically you want to be super powered anyway? Relic staff's / club do not give relic spells, neither do emperian or magian staves / clubs. Yeah that's not gonna happen, just cause SE is SE. Should the G.Horn allow you to go above every songs cap? Most definitely, just like the other special relics allow their users to go above the PDT / MDT cap.

For the refresh buff I know about the pants, don't be snide. I was comparing ONLY the G.horn in the past vs now to indicate that it had gained potency.

And you do relize that other then spamming chests for a refresh+1 hairpin, there's not much else a WHM can wear for refresh right? You have the hands / feet combo but their switching in / out of those so often (along with the head) that the extra MP/tick isn't fully counted.

I was respectful and nice and you reacted like a child being snide, rude and arrogant. Don't assume that my POL / FFXIAH profile is everything I have / play.

Retsujo

10-26-2011, 12:15 PM

So I really don't get why anyone would feel a BRD isn't desired, their awesome and extremely useful. Their just not the ZOMG here have all our loots type desired like back at 75.

While not exactly on topic, I completely agree with this guy's tangent. The only reason we BRDs feel like we're left out to rot is mainly because nobody needs a BRD for a stable influx of exp/merits. Also, Abyssea is easy-mode endgame. Everything outside of Abyssea is still under the same rules they've always been. People just don't do that stuff as often as they used to.

detlef

10-26-2011, 01:27 PM

So basically you want to be super powered anyway? Relic staff's / club do not give relic spells, neither do emperian or magian staves / clubs. Yeah that's not gonna happen, just cause SE is SE. Should the G.Horn allow you to go above every songs cap? Most definitely, just like the other special relics allow their users to go above the PDT / MDT cap.The reason staff and club do not give relic spells is because they give relic weapon skills. It is SE's intent for all relic weapons to be used to melee.

Ghorn gives a useful but small bonus to Ballad and Scherzo and otherwise provides the exact same bonuses as many other easier-to-obtain instruments. No, there might not be a precedent for relic weapons providing unique spells, but there is a precedent of gear providing unique spells (see Twilight Cloak).

For the refresh buff I know about the pants, don't be snide. I was comparing ONLY the G.horn in the past vs now to indicate that it had gained potency.

And you do relize that other then spamming chests for a refresh+1 hairpin, there's not much else a WHM can wear for refresh right? You have the hands / feet combo but their switching in / out of those so often (along with the head) that the extra MP/tick isn't fully counted.I realize that this might end up derailing the thread, but if you have the means to obtain a WHM +2 body then you have the means to obtain Owleyes, Serpentes, and Stearc. You are right that you will not get the full benefit since you will not be idling 100% of the time.

saevel

10-26-2011, 07:58 PM

The reason staff and club do not give relic spells is because they give relic weapon skills. It is SE's intent for all relic weapons to be used to melee.

Ghorn gives a useful but small bonus to Ballad and Scherzo and otherwise provides the exact same bonuses as many other easier-to-obtain instruments. No, there might not be a precedent for relic weapons providing unique spells, but there is a precedent of gear providing unique spells (see Twilight Cloak).

I realize that this might end up derailing the thread, but if you have the means to obtain a WHM +2 body then you have the means to obtain Owleyes, Serpentes, and Stearc. You are right that you will not get the full benefit since you will not be idling 100% of the time.

Means yes but no the time nor desire. 95%+ of this games population isn't unemployed at home playing all hours of the day. They don't even play a few hours everyday. You got +2 body and possibly a refresh hairpin, the hands / feet are also an option but rarely full timed. That's it, all, the end, no more.

The reason staff and club do not give relic spells is because they give relic weapon skills. It is SE's intent for all relic weapons to be used to melee.

And BRD has access to relic Dagger / Magian Dagger and Mythic Dagger, there is your special relic "move". And you conveniently forgot about the other two special items, neither Aegis nor OChain provide a special "spell" or ability to a PLD. Currently there is zero reason to have a relic song, plus you DO NOT WANT ONE. Just look at the relic WS's, most are complete trash, do you really want SE to give you a useless song on your G.Horn in absence of better stats? If it's worth anything then SE would be screwing over the 99+% of players who don't have a relic horn by giving it exclusively to a G.Horn BRD. Any songs should be included as scrolls and instead have the G.Horn enhance the song in such a way that it significantly exceeds the capability of non-Ghorn users. Something on the lines of +25% potency across the board on top of the "All Songs+4". Allow this to exceed the potency caps of the songs. Thus a GHorn BRD would be able to buff a party beyond anything a non-GHorn BRD could do, but wouldn't break the game. You do NOT want to break the game's balance, the result of doing this is to become the next RDM and pretty much devoid of good gear / spells / abilities for the rest of FFXI's existence.

Retsujo

10-26-2011, 09:07 PM

And you do relize that other then spamming chests for a refresh+1 hairpin, there's not much else a WHM can wear for refresh right? You have the hands / feet combo but their switching in / out of those so often (along with the head) that the extra MP/tick isn't fully counted.

Another off topic post! Sorry >_>

Konschtat gold box Refresh hairpin [Head](+1mp/tic)
Empyrean Armor +2 [Body](+2mp/tic)
Abyssea Altepa Brygid quest pants [Legs](+1/tic)
WotG completion reward augment [earring](with weapon sheathed - 1mp/tic)
Owleyes [club](1mp/tic)
Serpentes armor set [hands](nighttime only)+feet(daytime only)](1mp/tic)
Lv60+ w/Summoner subjob (1mp/tic)

That right there is 8mp/tic Auto Refresh. 7mp/tic really, because no WHM really subs SMN anymore.
In addition to that, you have other pieces you can add under certain circumstances to push it even further

Chrysopoeia Torque [Neck](latent 1mp/tic - triggered by consuming 1TP for every 1MP refreshed)
Poison Taster's cape [Back](poisoned: 1mp/tic)
There's quite a few more, but their conditions aren't really convenient to come by.

With WHM's auto regen and loading yourself with poison pots, you could get an extra 2MP/tic to get 10mp/tic total auto refresh. In addition to Refresh atmas, you could actually end up with 25mp/tic. Alternatively (for the melee whm), you can trade out the auto-refresh augment on wotg reward earring for auto-regain and use the torque to keep a consistent 9mp/tic. Tack on anywhere from a Refresh I from RDM to a Ballad III+II from BRD with Gjallahorn 90 and EA Pants +2, and you can get from 12-23mp/tic.

In any case, I disagree with your statement that WHM doesn't have much auto-refresh options on gear.

On topic, that doesn't mean that a Gjallarhorn is not worth having for Ballads. Or at all, really. I kinda hope the 99 update increases the "All Songs+" into both effect AND duration for all songs, not one or the other. That would probably make it the top-tier instrument again, and seperate the Relic BRDs from the non.

detlef

10-26-2011, 10:40 PM

Means yes but no the time nor desire. 95%+ of this games population isn't unemployed at home playing all hours of the day. They don't even play a few hours everyday. You got +2 body and possibly a refresh hairpin, the hands / feet are also an option but rarely full timed. That's it, all, the end, no more.The part of the population that cares about Voidwatch certainly should be looking at maxing out their idle set. I mean, that IS what we are talking about right? I can't imagine what else you could be bringing 2 PLD to. Voidwatch is something you shouldn't really be devoting massive amounts of time to unless you're essentially capped on Abyssea because Abyssea is so much more rewarding for the amount of time spent.

And BRD has access to relic Dagger / Magian Dagger and Mythic Dagger, there is your special relic "move". And you conveniently forgot about the other two special items, neither Aegis nor OChain provide a special "spell" or ability to a PLD.I love how you say "conveniently" as if I intentionally didn't mention Mandau or Mythic because I intended to mislead or misinform. Aegis and Ochain don't provide a special spell or ability because they already have unique and unmatched traits. It should be readily apparent to anybody how awesome and unique these shields are. As for Mandau and Mythic, what's your point? We're talking about Ghorn. I think you're trying to argue that BRD with it's B- dagger skill being able to use Mandau is somehow the same as a melee with A/A- skill and actual melee JA/gear?

Currently there is zero reason to have a relic song, plus you DO NOT WANT ONE. Just look at the relic WS's, most are complete trash, do you really want SE to give you a useless song on your G.Horn in absence of better stats? If it's worth anything then SE would be screwing over the 99+% of players who don't have a relic horn by giving it exclusively to a G.Horn BRD. Any songs should be included as scrolls and instead have the G.Horn enhance the song in such a way that it significantly exceeds the capability of non-Ghorn users. Something on the lines of +25% potency across the board on top of the "All Songs+4". Allow this to exceed the potency caps of the songs. Thus a GHorn BRD would be able to buff a party beyond anything a non-GHorn BRD could do, but wouldn't break the game. You do NOT want to break the game's balance, the result of doing this is to become the next RDM and pretty much devoid of good gear / spells / abilities for the rest of FFXI's existence.It's pretty clear from availability of 91-95 spells that SE does not care whether everybody can get every spell. Your suggestion isn't horrible. Daurdabla already has its niche as the special instrument that lets you have a 3rd song. Ghorn has always been the king of potency (well, in theory). Its unique trait could be additional potency above and beyond all instruments. But Ghorn shared its +2 status with a dozen instruments at 75 and +3 instruments were introduced at the same time as Ghorn 80, 85, and 90 trials. So it seems to me that SE does not value keeping Ghorn's potency ahead of the pack.

Which brings us to where we are. I think SE will give us +4 on the Ghorn99. Even if by some miracle SE does not introduce +4 instruments, the benefit of +4 over +3 is very small due to skill and haste caps. Even if you add an additional +25% (as you mention in your example), you are still limited by caps. Haste caps. Scherzo caps. Refresh becomes redundant.

The whole reason we're even talking about a Ghorn-specific song is because of this post by Camate:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12312-Bard-Job-Manifesto?p=168159&viewfull=1#post168159

We have plans to [add Massacre Elegy]. However, when considering the stats, we are planning to make it so this isn’t a song that can be used by just anyone.That quote is the reason people speculate over and clamor for a relic song. Because SE hinted at it. As I've said multiple times before, I'm not convinced that SE will put Ghorn99's potency ahead of the pack. And even if it did, this would not be a sufficient anyway. It needs something on beyond that.

Creelo

10-27-2011, 03:49 AM

Awesomesauce.

Thank you for that post!

Saevel, I'm sorry if this is "snide" or "childish" but please just stop.

saevel

10-27-2011, 03:49 AM

The part of the population that cares about Voidwatch certainly should be looking at maxing out their idle set. I mean, that IS what we are talking about right? I can't imagine what else you could be bringing 2 PLD to. Voidwatch is something you shouldn't really be devoting massive amounts of time to unless you're essentially capped on Abyssea because Abyssea is so much more rewarding for the amount of time spent.

I love how you say "conveniently" as if I intentionally didn't mention Mandau or Mythic because I intended to mislead or misinform. Aegis and Ochain don't provide a special spell or ability because they already have unique and unmatched traits. It should be readily apparent to anybody how awesome and unique these shields are. As for Mandau and Mythic, what's your point? We're talking about Ghorn. I think you're trying to argue that BRD with it's B- dagger skill being able to use Mandau is somehow the same as a melee with A/A- skill and actual melee JA/gear?

It's pretty clear from availability of 91-95 spells that SE does not care whether everybody can get every spell. Your suggestion isn't horrible. Daurdabla already has its niche as the special instrument that lets you have a 3rd song. Ghorn has always been the king of potency (well, in theory). Its unique trait could be additional potency above and beyond all instruments. But Ghorn shared its +2 status with a dozen instruments at 75 and +3 instruments were introduced at the same time as Ghorn 80, 85, and 90 trials. So it seems to me that SE does not value keeping Ghorn's potency ahead of the pack.

Which brings us to where we are. I think SE will give us +4 on the Ghorn99. Even if by some miracle SE does not introduce +4 instruments, the benefit of +4 over +3 is very small due to skill and haste caps. Even if you add an additional +25% (as you mention in your example), you are still limited by caps. Haste caps. Scherzo caps. Refresh becomes redundant.

The whole reason we're even talking about a Ghorn-specific song is because of this post by Camate:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12312-Bard-Job-Manifesto?p=168159&viewfull=1#post168159

That quote is the reason people speculate over and clamor for a relic song. Because SE hinted at it. As I've said multiple times before, I'm not convinced that SE will put Ghorn99's potency ahead of the pack. And even if it did, this would not be a sufficient anyway. It needs something on beyond that.

Aegis is in the same category as G.Horn, it's a special relic. The rest are weapons that give special weaponskills, not spells. And you do realize that OChain piss's all over Aegis most of the time right? We have both in our shell and the tanks have already made the comments that SE needs to seriously overhaul Aegis in some way. Our Aegis PLD is working on an OChain right now because it's that much of an improvement.

And do you ~REALLY~ want to go into the other relic weapons relative "usefulness"? Need I bring up ... claustrum? Yeah go tell the BLM's and SMNs that because they got a relic WS that BRD should get a special song on their G.Horns. Go tell the DRG's that cause they got such an awesome relic WS that BRD should get an awesome relic song. G.Horn in it's current state is already extremely useful, was it as "ZOMG come to our LS and we'll give you all our loots" as it was at 75, no it's not. It's already above and beyond most if not all of the other relics.

And like I said earlier, do you really want SE, the kings of useless additions, to be adding a "relic song" to your G.Horns? You really should go play RDM if you want to know what SE thinks of enfeebles in general. If its' a good one then the NM's will be immune to it, if it lands then it'll be weak and nearly ineffective.

saevel

10-27-2011, 03:55 AM

Another off topic post! Sorry >_>

Konschtat gold box Refresh hairpin [Head](+1mp/tic)
Empyrean Armor +2 [Body](+2mp/tic)
Abyssea Altepa Brygid quest pants [Legs](+1/tic)
WotG completion reward augment [earring](with weapon sheathed - 1mp/tic)
Owleyes [club](1mp/tic)
Serpentes armor set [hands](nighttime only)+feet(daytime only)](1mp/tic)
Lv60+ w/Summoner subjob (1mp/tic)

That right there is 8mp/tic Auto Refresh. 7mp/tic really, because no WHM really subs SMN anymore.
In addition to that, you have other pieces you can add under certain circumstances to push it even further

Chrysopoeia Torque [Neck](latent 1mp/tic - triggered by consuming 1TP for every 1MP refreshed)
Poison Taster's cape [Back](poisoned: 1mp/tic)
There's quite a few more, but their conditions aren't really convenient to come by.

With WHM's auto regen and loading yourself with poison pots, you could get an extra 2MP/tic to get 10mp/tic total auto refresh. In addition to Refresh atmas, you could actually end up with 25mp/tic. Alternatively (for the melee whm), you can trade out the auto-refresh augment on wotg reward earring for auto-regain and use the torque to keep a consistent 9mp/tic. Tack on anywhere from a Refresh I from RDM to a Ballad III+II from BRD with Gjallahorn 90 and EA Pants +2, and you can get from 12-23mp/tic.

In any case, I disagree with your statement that WHM doesn't have much auto-refresh options on gear.

On topic, that doesn't mean that a Gjallarhorn is not worth having for Ballads. Or at all, really. I kinda hope the 99 update increases the "All Songs+" into both effect AND duration for all songs, not one or the other. That would probably make it the top-tier instrument again, and seperate the Relic BRDs from the non.

And they'll have none of those equipped the majority of the time, except possibly the earring. You can look up the vanadiel consensus to see how many players have finished WoTG. The hands / feet / legs (seriously you tried to throw that into there) are constantly going to be switched out for better gear.

This isn't BG, there is no "get gear" button in the MH that gives you these things.

detlef

10-27-2011, 04:12 AM

Aegis is in the same category as G.Horn, it's a special relic. The rest are weapons that give special weaponskills, not spells. And you do realize that OChain piss's all over Aegis most of the time right? We have both in our shell and the tanks have already made the comments that SE needs to seriously overhaul Aegis in some way. Our Aegis PLD is working on an OChain right now because it's that much of an improvement.If you can't see the value of Aegis I just don't know what to say. I suppose Ochain does piss on Aegis for easy content. So if you care about Seiryu or something, I guess Ochain is the shield for you. The main point is that the use of both shields is highly situational and I'd say you could make arguments for supporting either shield as being more broken than the other.

And do you ~REALLY~ want to go into the other relic weapons relative "usefulness"? Need I bring up ... claustrum? Yeah go tell the BLM's and SMNs that because they got a relic WS that BRD should get a special song on their G.Horns. Go tell the DRG's that cause they got such an awesome relic WS that BRD should get an awesome relic song. G.Horn in it's current state is already extremely useful, was it as "ZOMG come to our LS and we'll give you all our loots" as it was at 75, no it's not. It's already above and beyond most if not all of the other relics.I think we can agree that you needn't bring up Claustrum at all. It's irrelevant to the conversation. It's a joke of a weapon and a misguided attempt to provide mages with a melee weapon.

As I stated, all relic weapons are intended to be melee weapons. They generally do not enhance the any other aspect of the job. Well aside from Apocalypse, Bravura, and Spharai, which all enhance tanking ability. As for DRG, their relic WS is meh and if they care about such things, they probably should be up in arms. That's their call.

Ghorn is above and beyond you say? Please tell me how in 2011 Ghorn is above and beyond most if not all other relics. Keep in mind that any BRD can cap Marches now. Keep in mind that there's a Ballad +1 harp and +1 Ballad on Empy legs. Keep in mind that +3 instruments are available for every important song aside from Scherzo and Carol. Keep in mind that Sublimation, Refresh II, numerous auto-refresh pieces are available, along with atmas in Abyssea and temp items in Voidwatch. Oh and /RDM Refresh/Convert, /SCH Sublimation, and Evoker's Roll.

And like I said earlier, do you really want SE, the kings of useless additions, to be adding a "relic song" to your G.Horns? You really should go play RDM if you want to know what SE thinks of enfeebles in general. If its' a good one then the NM's will be immune to it, if it lands then it'll be weak and nearly ineffective.Do you think I want a useless relic song? Absolutely not. That would be pointless. Who would request such a thing? I want something useful and awesome.

Incidentally, Elegy, Finale, and Threnody land on almost everything, save for the rare NM that is strong against that element. I'm not sure how RDM enfeebles are relevant to this discussion. This is the BRD forum.

Retsujo

10-27-2011, 08:05 AM

And they'll have none of those equipped the majority of the time, except possibly the earring. You can look up the vanadiel consensus to see how many players have finished WoTG. The hands / feet / legs (seriously you tried to throw that into there) are constantly going to be switched out for better gear.

That doesn't kill their invaluable usefulness when not doing anything. Swapping to the gear you need for the spells you're casting at the time then swapping back to the refresh gear inbetween spells (even if just for a tic or two) can really help you out in the end. It's probably about as useful in comparison to SMN subjob back at 75 cap before SCH came around, but regardless of how impracticle it might seem, it's still a nice option to have when you don't have time to /heal for MP.

And the argument wasn't "You won't wear them a lot of the time" it was "There isn't much refresh gear for WHM." Unless of course I missed something.

No more derailing! >_>

Reain

10-27-2011, 08:10 AM

I think what most G.horn owners want at 99 is along the lines of:

CHR+10 Singing Skill +25 Wind Instrument Skill +25
All songs +4 "Massacre Elegy"
Gjallarhorn skill bypasses skill cap on songs

e.g. Scherzo would anull 55% with 99 G.horn/Emp. Feet+2

Other things I'd like because I'm greedy/unrealistic

For G.horn
More CHR/Singing/Wind skill
All Songs +5 instead of 4(and All songs+4 Ninja'd onto the level 95 G.horn)
Silence Immunity Aura/Sphere (incl. bard)
Enhances the Augments song effect of the empyrean set bonus
Adds additional effects to Songs
My G.horn to always have 1 more +All songs than Creelo's G.horn when he gets his.
Ability to triple proc songs

Other misc things for bard

Tier3 march/mambo/madrigal
rest of tier 2 carols including light and dark
tier2 threnody(this can be 1 song that lowers resistance to all elements)
Magic Finale II(dispels mutliple effects)
Foe Sirvente to prevent a full CE/VE hate reset on things such as horrid roar
Pining Nocturne to stack with Addle
Adding a new song that reduces enemy magic defense(from Job Adjustments Manifesto)
Revising enemy resistance to Foe Requiem(from Job Adjustments Manifesto)
Pianissimo to stack with teunto
Marcato put back to 2x instead of 1.5x like it was on the test server
Goddess's Hymunus to be a 1hr Reraise effect instead of a song effect
New songs with effects exclusive to bard.
A Carnwenhan exclusive song
A Daurdabla exclusive song

Anyone have any ideas on what they would want the merited bard 2HR to be? And the other merits at 99? And the stats on bard AF2+3?

Creelo

10-27-2011, 08:28 AM

I think what most G.horn owners want at 99 is along the lines of:

CHR+10 Singing Skill +25 Wind Instrument Skill +25
All songs +4 "Massacre Elegy"
Gjallarhorn skill bypasses skill cap on songs

e.g. Scherzo would anull 55% with 99 G.horn/Emp. Feet+2

Other things I'd like because I'm greedy/unrealistic

For G.horn
More CHR/Singing/Wind skill
All Songs +5 instead of 4(and All songs+4 Ninja'd onto the level 95 G.horn)
Silence Immunity Aura/Sphere (incl. bard)
Enhances the Augments song effect of the empyrean set bonus
Adds additional effects to Songs
My G.horn to always have 1 more +All songs than Creelo's G.horn when he gets his.
Ability to triple proc songs

Other misc things for bard

Tier3 march/mambo/madrigal
rest of tier 2 carols including light and dark
tier2 threnody(this can be 1 song that lowers resistance to all elements)
Magic Finale II(dispels mutliple effects)
Foe Sirvente to prevent a full CE/VE hate reset on things such as horrid roar
Pining Nocturne to stack with Addle
Adding a new song that reduces enemy magic defense(from Job Adjustments Manifesto)
Revising enemy resistance to Foe Requiem(from Job Adjustments Manifesto)
Pianissimo to stack with teunto
Marcato put back to 2x instead of 1.5x like it was on the test server
Goddess's Hymunus to be a 1hr Reraise effect instead of a song effect
New songs with effects exclusive to bard.
A Carnwenhan exclusive song
A Daurdabla exclusive song

I'm down!! :D

My G.horn to always have 1 more +All songs than Creelo's G.horn when he gets his.

Hey!! Wait!! D:

saevel

10-27-2011, 09:28 AM

If you can't see the value of Aegis I just don't know what to say. I suppose Ochain does piss on Aegis for easy content. So if you care about Seiryu or something, I guess Ochain is the shield for you. The main point is that the use of both shields is highly situational and I'd say you could make arguments for supporting either shield as being more broken than the other.

I think we can agree that you needn't bring up Claustrum at all. It's irrelevant to the conversation. It's a joke of a weapon and a misguided attempt to provide mages with a melee weapon.

As I stated, all relic weapons are intended to be melee weapons. They generally do not enhance the any other aspect of the job. Well aside from Apocalypse, Bravura, and Spharai, which all enhance tanking ability. As for DRG, their relic WS is meh and if they care about such things, they probably should be up in arms. That's their call.

Ghorn is above and beyond you say? Please tell me how in 2011 Ghorn is above and beyond most if not all other relics. Keep in mind that any BRD can cap Marches now. Keep in mind that there's a Ballad +1 harp and +1 Ballad on Empy legs. Keep in mind that +3 instruments are available for every important song aside from Scherzo and Carol. Keep in mind that Sublimation, Refresh II, numerous auto-refresh pieces are available, along with atmas in Abyssea and temp items in Voidwatch. Oh and /RDM Refresh/Convert, /SCH Sublimation, and Evoker's Roll.

Do you think I want a useless relic song? Absolutely not. That would be pointless. Who would request such a thing? I want something useful and awesome.

Incidentally, Elegy, Finale, and Threnody land on almost everything, save for the rare NM that is strong against that element. I'm not sure how RDM enfeebles are relevant to this discussion. This is the BRD forum.

I like how you attempt to side step the fact that many relics are nigh useless and say its not relevant. G.horn is a relic, Claustrum is a relic, a caster class use's both of them. Claustrum wasn't SE's joke, it was what SE thought a "relic" staff should be.

This presents two arguments then. The first being why in the world would one of the best relics in the game (G.horn) be demanding all these buffs when several other relics are in such useless states? Should SE put Meteor on Claustrum then? That is ~EXACTLY~ what has been asked for in this thread, don't try to duck / dodge / spin your way out of that. Second being that Tanaka is back on FFXI now, back as in calling managerial decisions back. You seriously want the people who designed Claustrum to design a "relic song" for your horn?

The relevance to RDM is simple, most of our debuffs don't work on HNMs. Dia III and Slow II are the only ones. The rest are resisted no matter how much M.acc you stack. Try to imagine all your BRD songs acting like Requiem on HNMs, that's what it is like to be a RDM at a HNM fight. If SE made a super song on your GHorn and it was really good, then it would be resisted on all HNM fights.

Creelo

10-27-2011, 10:21 AM

This presents two arguments then. The first being why in the world would one of the best relics in the game (G.horn) be demanding all these buffs when several other relics are in such useless states? Should SE put Meteor on Claustrum then? That is ~EXACTLY~ what has been asked for in this thread, don't try to duck / dodge / spin your way out of that. Second being that Tanaka is back on FFXI now, back as in calling managerial decisions back. You seriously want the people who designed Claustrum to design a "relic song" for your horn?

First, we're only really asking for one buff, and hoping that this buff could be on the scale to what Aegis received.

You can't compare Gjallarhorn to Claustrum... they're totally different. Claustrum is one of the best DD Staves in the game, technically, for Blm and Smn, how this truly compares to the Empy, who knows (Although from a pure DD aspect, instead of utility aspect... I think Claustrum would beat out Hvergelmir, but who really knows? lol) All relic weapons were meant to be DD Weapons, not for Nukes or Cures, etc. :/ I mean really, if a Smn or Blm truly wants to jump into the fray and "DD" stuff, then this staff is probably the best option for doing so, not that I'd really advise it, but if they gear for it properly and know that not every situation is perhaps the best to DD in lol... then why not?

Anyways, you still have yet to say why you believe Gjallarhorn is, as you say...

one of the best relics in the game (G.horn)

I can assure you that Gjallarhorn has really turned into one of the least desirable relics since the introduction of the lvl 85 Cap. We've already posted our reasons as to why multiple times, and the truth to Gjallarhorn's underwhelming power is incontrovertible.

I really think you just need to stop, because you aren't contributing anything at all except posts that are illogical and pointless, only trying desperately to cover the fact that you really don't know anything about Brd or Gjallarhorn.

Babekeke

11-03-2011, 03:26 PM

There is a bright side to this of course. G.Horn BRDs are now allowed to come on another job, instead of always BRD onry!

Camate

11-04-2011, 03:55 AM

While I can't give the specifics just yet, there is no need to worry as you will be able to enhance your Gjallarhorn further via Trial of the Magians. This goes for other relic weapons as well.

I will pass your enhancement ideas on to the development team so they can consider them as well^^

Zumi

11-04-2011, 05:52 AM

Washburn

11-04-2011, 06:06 AM

I think either boosting the triple dmg proc rate further, and/or giving each a store tp effect or 30sec minimum aftermath like empyreans.

One other thing id like is to give mandau treasure hunter that does not stack with thief's knife. Itd really relieve the burden behind offhand choices and losing tp to swap daggers.

detlef

11-04-2011, 06:23 AM

I don't know why your complaining because all the other relics outside of aegis really didn't get much of anything. A small damage increase on a bad WS really isn't that great, which is what every other relic got.Feel free to peruse the rest of the thread to understand the reasoning behind our Ghorn complaints. I don't think the fact that a handful of other relics have it worse should preclude anyone from pointing out that Ghorn has some serious and significant shortcomings that we would like to see remedied for the level 99 cap.

Longshot

11-04-2011, 07:27 AM

I'd prefer something more useful on Mandau than Treasure Hunter, especially if they don't plan on going back to letting loot drop off actual mobs.

Atomic_Skull

11-04-2011, 12:33 PM

Creelo

11-04-2011, 03:52 PM

I don't know why your complaining because all the other relics outside of aegis really didn't get much of anything. A small damage increase on a bad WS really isn't that great, which is what every other relic got.

This is a really ignorant post. Please try to at least know what you're talking about before spewing out word vomit in the form of a post.

Ninja Edit: Also, this thread was originally about Gjallarhorn and its current shortcomings... I know Camate mentioned other relics being upgraded through ToM or w/e, but please don't derail the thread too much with talks/rants about other relics x.x

As a side note, I'm curious as to what Camate's post really even means. Does it mean that Gjallarhorn (along with the other relics) will be receiving another Trial for the lvl cap increase to 99, because isn't that kind of expected? :/ Or is it hinting at multiple trials that aren't related to a lvl cap increase? Quite the elusive post >.<

Ordoric

11-05-2011, 09:27 PM

i dont have a Ghorn but should beabkle to make it mach an eefect of a pyft harp 3songs

Wallrat

11-14-2011, 03:43 AM

Reain

11-15-2011, 11:43 AM

Some pretty good ideas on here, def. like the idea of massacre elegy. I can't remember the last time I played on my brd so bear w/ me.

Haven't seen it mentioned but what about an additional effect of 'Fast Cast' for all songs from G.Horn? Giving mages 3x ballads is overkill, but fast cast is still pretty useful or at least nice to have. Plus that would allow relic bards to give a welcomed buff to tanks/some melee without having to sacrifice 1/3 songs to do it.

Definitely want Massacre Elegy. Fast cast would be useful, but I think I would rather have something exclusive to bard. COR has caster's roll which gives fast cast. Cor has a lot of the good buffs actually. A Quick song effect would be very cool for songs cast with Gjallarhorn (100% quick magic effect on songs), but would probably be too much.

Other random ideas for Bard. Not neccesarily G.horn.

A song which reduces the size of the area of effect of enemy abilities.(does not stack with elegy/next AoE ability only perhaps)
A song which increases the rate of shield blocking/parrying/countering for party members within area of effect for jobs who have those skills.
A song which increases the rate of skill ups for combat/magic skills.
A song which increases the maximum casting range for party members in area of effect
A song which occasionally turns enmity gained on an action into enmity loss.
A song which draws in an enemy/party member.
A song which occasionally maximizes magic accuracy for party members within area of effect.
A song which causes damage over time effects of an element to recover party member's HP when used in conjunction with Carol II.
A song which removes a monster's elemental affinity. Resistance to this effect builds similar to gravity.
A song which activates aftermath effects. Strength of aftermath based on singing/instrument skill.
A song which provides TP bonus.
A song which knocks back an enemy(wind instrument/enemy target), knocks all enemies away from the bard within area of effect(stringed instruemnt/self target)
A song which increases resistance to all status effects.
A song which increases resistance to death.
A song which inflicts amnesia on a monster or a song that increases the amount of TP required for a monster to use a TP move.(does not stack with elegy)
Chocobo hum and Cactuar Fugue.
A song which occasionally gives the effect of quick magic to party members within area of effect.
A song which lowers the recast on job abilities/increases the rate at which reuse timers count down.
A song which reduces damage taken (for when scherzo doesn't trigger)
A set of songs which when paired tranfer a portion of enmity generated from the the recipient(s) of one song to the recipient of the other song.
A song that makes melee attacks AoE like an ironclad.

A job ability that centres the next song on a party/alliance member.(mythic or empyrean harp effect)
A Job abilty that makes the next single target song AoE.
A job ability that prevents a monster from dispelling/asborbing the next song casted.

A job trait that prevent etude degredation.
A job trait that enhances the strength of songs when more than 1 bard is present in a party.

Equipment that enhances the potency/duration/number of songs castable with marcato.

Flionheart

12-02-2011, 11:10 PM

WAR (negative), COR (3 dice rolls without needing an empy wasn't enough, it seems?), SCH, PUP and DRG are the 'top of the list' jobs right now.

Kind of ironic, the only reason I levelled BRD was because it was guaranteed to get me a meripo back at 75 (unlike my other 3 75s: THF BLM and SMN), yet now, noone cares to invite a brd even to an exp pt, let alone end-game apart from maybe 1 BRD in VW, or in aby if no BLMs have /BRD, and these seem to be only for procs.

Obviously I've never been invited to abyssea NMs as BRD, since I have BLM95 so I can BLM/BRD. I doubt if my skills have gone up more than 5 levels from their cap at 75 Q.Q

BRD is useful in both Aby and VW. I've never had trouble getting into any party in VW or Aby.

Anewie

01-07-2012, 10:37 AM

i wanna know why this thing is still so gimp tbh

Anewie

01-14-2012, 01:31 AM

WTF, Lvl99 trial only adds a single song tick.. That's ridiculous. ALL SONGS+4 SUCKS. That's pretty useless for all that work. Its on par with aegis magic cap back in the day. Why can't they give us something worthwhile?

Inventory space saver LV99

I have a mog satchel/sack kthxbai

Voice/creelo, where are u; ;

this is BULLSHIT

Babekeke

01-14-2012, 04:51 AM

All BRDs with G Horn or Daurdabla, will be pleased to know (add sarcasm) that EVERY OTHER RELIC/EMPY IS GETTING ADDITIONAL BUFFS FOR 99! They all get an 'afterglow' sphere effect for 30 secs after using weaponskill or shield bash.

3591 Gjallarhorn Rare Ex CHR+10 Singing skill +25 Wind instrument skill +25 All songs +4

3590 Daurdabla Rare Ex Singing skill +20 String instrument skill +20Increases song effect duration by 30%Grants two additional song effects

detlef

01-14-2012, 05:03 AM

Seeing as how the afterglows are 30 second effects that you get after WS (or shield bash), I don't know how they'd implement them since it appears they are not intended to be full-time sphere effects. Which is fine. If anything it's better because it give us a reason not to bother.

Creelo

01-14-2012, 06:36 AM

Yup, it's really disappointing. >.<

This part was interesting...

Other Information of Note
Additional planned features, such as equipment-specific magic spells and pets, have been postponed to allow for more thorough testing concerning attributes, the number of potential users and the process by which to obtain them. One consideration is whether to implement such features as another stage of the above upgrades, or to apply them to a different set of equipment. Also under deliberation is whether to limit the availability of such equipment or make it relatively simple to obtain.

So I wonder if Massacre Elegy is included in this part of the post; however, I greatly fear that Gjallarhorn lvl 99 Stage 2 would have to be completed for access to Massacre Elegy. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna quickly delve away and say that this whole Stage 2 Business of killing 1000 Arch DLs, 500 PWs, or collecting 3000 Riftcinder/dross is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

As for the usefulness of "All Songs +4" (Incoming long post...)

Base March Values
Advancing March's = 64/1024
Victory = 96/1024

With March+4
(Current max for Brds, each March+1 gives 16/1024 Haste, so 64/1024 extra haste with March+4. All Bard's should have AF3+2 Hands for that extra March+1 considering how easy they are to get.)

Advancing+4 = 128/1024 = 12.5% Haste
Victory+4 = 160/1024 = 15.625% Haste

Haste the spell already gives 150/1024 = 14.65% Haste.

Magic Haste caps at 448/1024 = 43.75% Haste.

128+160+150 = 438/1024 = 42.78% Haste is the current cap to what we can get without Marcato or Gjallarhorn99's March+5. Basically, Brd's with Langeleik (March+4) are 1% away from capping Magical Haste. Bard's with just March+3 are about 4% away from the cap.

But since we have Marcato, Brd's that have been keeping up with their equipment should allow for capped Magic Haste roughly 60%~ of the time already. (3min12sec base, 6:24 with Troub, or 3min->6min if just March+3) Gjallarhorn isn't needed to cap magical Haste roughly 60% of the time. Even March+3x2 can cap Magical Haste with Marcato.

With March+5
Advancing+5 144/1024 = 14.06% Haste
Victory+5 176/1024 = 17.19% Haste
Together = 320/1024 = 31.25% Haste

So basically, with Haste (150/1024), March+5 x2 + Haste is overkill (470/1024 as opposed to 448/1024).

You may think you could potentially Marcato Victory March+5 to be able to drop a March, but that's still only 264/1024 = 25.78% Haste, thus you'll still need to sing Advancing March and have Haste to cap Magic Haste.

With Daurdabla, you could do Marchx2+Marcato'd Third Song with Gjallarhorn lvl99, while still capping Magic Haste without Marcato, but that's nothing to really go ape shit over lol, especially since the important stat (capping Magical Haste) can already be done now ~60% of the time.

If SE would've released that third tier of March... (We know it's there in the dats!!), and it would follow the same base values as Advancing/Victory, thus having a 128/1024 Haste base with capped skill, March+5 would allow for 208/1024 = 20.31% Haste, with Marcato roughly 30.47% Haste. This would allow for only a Marcato'd MarchIII+5 being needed to cap Magical Haste (along with Haste itself of course). This would probably require a high amount of skill gear needed to do this, which would make Gjallarhorn's skill and "All Songs+4" way more useful.

Ballad+5
Gjallarhorn's extra Ballad+ is nice, but really only useful for events where MP regeneration isn't as easy. VW has Temp Items, Abyssea has Atmas, so it's not really needed there. Not to mention /sch and /rdm both provide awesome abilities for restoring MP. Marches would instead be more beneficial, especially for stun recast timers. New events like Legion could bring back Ballad+'s usefulness though.

Scherzo+5
Scherzo 46% vs. 50% with Gjallarhorn lvl 99. If the attack's gonna kill ya, it will kill ya. That 4% is probably not gonna be the difference maker lol I wouldn't be surprised if SE released a Scherzo+ instrument either since we haven't seen a new instrument since the lvl 90 Cap... :/

-In Summary-
Basically, Gjallarhorn is nice... but it's not revolutionary. "All Songs+4" provides little benefit over a Brd without Gjallarhorn. It's nice... but not as nice compared to other relics. :/

I think that a third tier of March could have potentially really buffed Gjallarhorn, but who know's if we'll see that.

I think I'd say Daurdabla lvl 90 is still better than Gjallarhorn at 99, and Daurdabla lvl 99 is light-years ahead of lvl 99 Gjallarhorn lol, obviously best to try to get both! :)

Anewie

01-14-2012, 07:26 AM

i love u cree!

number one fan!

xo

VoiceMemo

01-14-2012, 09:32 AM

I have nothing to add at the moment that was not covered with Creelo's post. The numbers and logic behind Creelo's calculations look correct.

I would like to express my disappointment about the line in Gildrein's post of:

*Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla may not be imbued with Afterglow effects.

All other relics will get afterglow, even Aegis. Granted yes the nature of Gjallarhorn is different compared to other relic weapons and Aegis, as weapons are used offensively and Aegis is used for defense. Gjallarhorn is unique in the fact it has always been about buffing the party. I do not think it should be excluded from an afterglow effect just because of it's existing buffing capabilities.

I still am hoping lvl 2 will be where Massacre Elegy is added. Granted yes if the current data is correct we would need 1k items from Arch DL it would take quite a while. Massacre Elegy is a worth 99 lvl song, which a Gjallarhorn only song has been long overdue ever since it has been first available.

detlef

01-14-2012, 10:19 AM

It doesn't matter what they add to level 2 because nobody is going to finish that stage. It would not take "quite a while." If you want Massacre Elegy in any shape or form, you'd best pray that it is NOT added to level 2.

As I stated earlier, it seems that SE does not want us to have a full-time sphere effect so what would then be the afterglow trigger?

Creelo

01-14-2012, 01:09 PM

It doesn't matter what they add to level 2 because nobody is going to finish that stage. It would not take "quite a while." If you want Massacre Elegy in any shape or form, you'd best pray that it is NOT added to level 2.

I must agree; personally, I would just love for Massacre Elegy to be a quested spell that you must initiate by presenting your lvl 99 Stage 1 Gjallarhorn to some famous Bard NPC, perhaps the Bard that gave us our Gjallarhorns. :D What that quest would actually entail... I don't really know. A Solo or Party BCNM fight would be a lot of fun I think, as opposed to grinding out and collecting a crap ton of items.

I pity the soul that would actually complete a Stage 2 Relic/Mythic/Empy, ooophf. Just thinking about it makes my head dizzy and frustrated >.<

VoiceMemo

01-14-2012, 02:47 PM

Back in the day when we were 75 doing dynamis took a while to get the currency needed. I'm still working on brd mythic so if that's where SE puts it so be it. I'll still work for it even if it takes a long time. Time is relative, what one person might consider long, one might consider short. It all depends on your point of view.

If it takes years it takes years simple as that. SE will decide the eventual amount of X items needed to get. Yes we can make suggestions and such but ultimately they have the final word on it. I would love a lower amount but if that's what they decide not much we can do except email and post our opinions. Whether or not they act on them is up to them.

I completed Gjallarhorn 3 years ago yet I still do dynamis to help other people get their relics, so far 7 years worth of dynamis.

I believe if people would team up more, stuff could be done faster, rather than split groups up into small groups for each their own. Dynamis for me has always been about teamwork and back at 75 I think it best exemplifies it. Granted yes there were leaders that took advantage of members, but there are also those that stick around and keep with it trying to help everyone that they can.

With the addition of Legion with it's 360k gil requirement and max 36 players I believe this is SE's way of addressing the team aspect of the game again.

As for afterglow trigger, I've always been a proponent of a Gjallarhorn specific JA or even weapon skill like Horn Bash. Where you could use it after you have sung X amount of songs or some other trigger. Gjallarhorn has always been in a unique position in game as neither weapon or defense so maybe something unique is warranted

Urat

01-20-2012, 12:22 AM

I dunno, but I think all songs+4 is till pretty strong, especially considering how much cheaper gjallahorn is compared to the other relics :p

However maybe we should get some kind of "enhances song duration" thing on the 99 version too. Depends how costly it is. Stage 1 99 gjallahorn might not be that hard to get. We don't know what the trial is yet so who knows.

Zhronne

01-20-2012, 02:22 AM

I dunno, but I think all songs+4 is till pretty strong, especially considering how much cheaper gjallahorn is compared to the other relics :p
What do you mean exactely? :O

detlef

01-20-2012, 03:11 AM

He probably means cost since the final stage is shells. +4 songs seems strong until you realize how little of an improvement it is over +3.

Zhronne

01-20-2012, 04:35 AM

Pretty confident I'm still missing something. My fault eh! I bet it's my fault completely, morning-braindead probably, but I still don't get it completely.
Windy currency costs the same as Sandy currency on my server, and this has been for a long time. Bastok currency was a bit cheaper but lately it seems the price of the 3 currency is getting more or less the same tbh.

I would have got the "cheaper" thing if Gjallarhorn required 10k Bynes on last stage, but since it's shells I dunno, I don't see how it's cheaper than other relics that require bynes. (and even then, the price difference is not as big as it used to be, as I mentioned above)

Glamdring

01-20-2012, 09:43 AM

Yup, it's really disappointing. >.<

This part was interesting...

So I wonder if Massacre Elegy is included in this part of the post; however, I greatly fear that Gjallarhorn lvl 99 Stage 2 would have to be completed for access to Massacre Elegy. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna quickly delve away and say that this whole Stage 2 Business of killing 1000 Arch DLs, 500 PWs, or collecting 3000 Riftcinder/dross is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

As for the usefulness of "All Songs +4" (Incoming long post...)

Base March Values
Advancing March's = 64/1024
Victory = 96/1024

With March+4
(Current max for Brds, each March+1 gives 16/1024 Haste, so 64/1024 extra haste with March+4. All Bard's should have AF3+2 Hands for that extra March+1 considering how easy they are to get.)

Advancing+4 = 128/1024 = 12.5% Haste
Victory+4 = 160/1024 = 15.625% Haste

Haste the spell already gives 150/1024 = 14.65% Haste.

Magic Haste caps at 448/1024 = 43.75% Haste.

128+160+150 = 438/1024 = 42.78% Haste is the current cap to what we can get without Marcato or Gjallarhorn99's March+5. Basically, Brd's with Langeleik (March+4) are 1% away from capping Magical Haste. Bard's with just March+3 are about 4% away from the cap.

But since we have Marcato, Brd's that have been keeping up with their equipment should allow for capped Magic Haste roughly 60%~ of the time already. (3min12sec base, 6:24 with Troub, or 3min->6min if just March+3) Gjallarhorn isn't needed to cap magical Haste roughly 60% of the time. Even March+3x2 can cap Magical Haste with Marcato.

With March+5
Advancing+5 144/1024 = 14.06% Haste
Victory+5 176/1024 = 17.19% Haste
Together = 320/1024 = 31.25% Haste

So basically, with Haste (150/1024), March+5 x2 + Haste is overkill (470/1024 as opposed to 448/1024).

You may think you could potentially Marcato Victory March+5 to be able to drop a March, but that's still only 264/1024 = 25.78% Haste, thus you'll still need to sing Advancing March and have Haste to cap Magic Haste.

With Daurdabla, you could do Marchx2+Marcato'd Third Song with Gjallarhorn lvl99, while still capping Magic Haste without Marcato, but that's nothing to really go ape shit over lol, especially since the important stat (capping Magical Haste) can already be done now ~60% of the time.

If SE would've released that third tier of March... (We know it's there in the dats!!), and it would follow the same base values as Advancing/Victory, thus having a 128/1024 Haste base with capped skill, March+5 would allow for 208/1024 = 20.31% Haste, with Marcato roughly 30.47% Haste. This would allow for only a Marcato'd MarchIII+5 being needed to cap Magical Haste (along with Haste itself of course). This would probably require a high amount of skill gear needed to do this, which would make Gjallarhorn's skill and "All Songs+4" way more useful.

Ballad+5
Gjallarhorn's extra Ballad+ is nice, but really only useful for events where MP regeneration isn't as easy. VW has Temp Items, Abyssea has Atmas, so it's not really needed there. Not to mention /sch and /rdm both provide awesome abilities for restoring MP. Marches would instead be more beneficial, especially for stun recast timers. New events like Legion could bring back Ballad+'s usefulness though.

Scherzo+5
Scherzo 46% vs. 50% with Gjallarhorn lvl 99. If the attack's gonna kill ya, it will kill ya. That 4% is probably not gonna be the difference maker lol I wouldn't be surprised if SE released a Scherzo+ instrument either since we haven't seen a new instrument since the lvl 90 Cap... :/

-In Summary-
Basically, Gjallarhorn is nice... but it's not revolutionary. "All Songs+4" provides little benefit over a Brd without Gjallarhorn. It's nice... but not as nice compared to other relics. :/

I think that a third tier of March could have potentially really buffed Gjallarhorn, but who know's if we'll see that.

I think I'd say Daurdabla lvl 90 is still better than Gjallarhorn at 99, and Daurdabla lvl 99 is light-years ahead of lvl 99 Gjallarhorn lol, obviously best to try to get both! :)

um... if you can train your party to work with a bard the way they are supposed to (i.e. stay in position and hold the mob's hate) then yes, you can use a bard for something other than haste. thus, boosted ballads for mages, etc. Scherzo on single tanked mobs, carols if it's into single element spamming, minuet if your hitting plenty often, but for only 0-20 damage, all that stuff.

Grant you, as a default (especially if you don't bother with hate control) double march and whatever enfeebs we can get is probably going to be your go-to song set, but a bard who's paying attention to party progress, especially if the party has both skill, chemistry and any sense of strategy being open to other possibilities on a situational basis can be MUCH more effective.

Most players only see what buffs can do for them, not the party, and the vast majority of players are melee DD. However, the bard job is PARTY SUPPORT, not just DD support. Not all parties are built that way. If your primary damage source is nukers, maybe you should consider doing things that boost nuking? Or boost hate on the tank considering that nukers tend to be 1-shotable... A bard who doesn't adapt to party needs (assuming the rest of the pt is actually fulfilling their role) is just contemptable.

Creelo

01-20-2012, 06:39 PM

um... if you can train your party to work with a bard the way they are supposed to (i.e. stay in position and hold the mob's hate) then yes, you can use a bard for something other than haste. thus, boosted ballads for mages, etc. Scherzo on single tanked mobs, carols if it's into single element spamming, minuet if your hitting plenty often, but for only 0-20 damage, all that stuff.

Grant you, as a default (especially if you don't bother with hate control) double march and whatever enfeebs we can get is probably going to be your go-to song set, but a bard who's paying attention to party progress, especially if the party has both skill, chemistry and any sense of strategy being open to other possibilities on a situational basis can be MUCH more effective.

Most players only see what buffs can do for them, not the party, and the vast majority of players are melee DD. However, the bard job is PARTY SUPPORT, not just DD support. Not all parties are built that way. If your primary damage source is nukers, maybe you should consider doing things that boost nuking? Or boost hate on the tank considering that nukers tend to be 1-shotable... A bard who doesn't adapt to party needs (assuming the rest of the pt is actually fulfilling their role) is just contemptable.

You don't think I fucking know any of that? <.< Seriously, dude?

That doesn't even remotely relate to my other post because I wasn't at all saying "MARCH IS ALL THAT MATTERS, BARD'S SHOULDN'T SING CAROLS, SCHERZO, ETC."

Really?

My post was trying to evaluate the overall usefulness of "All Songs +4" and how this applies to our most important songs (March, Ballad, and Scherzo), although it would undoubtedly be affecting all of our songs. I simply came to the conclusion that "All Songs +4" is nice, but hardly an improvement over a Brd without Gjallarhorn, and that a third tier of March could potentially buff Gjallarhorn well.

I've never said once that Bard is only for Marches, and I'm a STRONG supporter of being a Brd that does more than just sing their songs and afk in a corner.

And you do realize that March can boost nuker's dmg as well, right? Since MP is such a non-issue now, March is easily one of the best songs TO be singing for Mages to help lower their recast timers. An Etude can be nice for larger Epeen Dmg, but March will provide much more for your mages (Marchx2 + Scherzo comes to mind for a Blm party on Botulus Rex).

So please, before you post stupid shit that doesn't even relate to an original post, just don't.

Zhronne

01-20-2012, 06:59 PM

Omg someone stop Creelo! He's about to kill Glamdring! O____O

Glamdring

01-24-2012, 09:50 AM

You don't think I fucking know any of that? <.< Seriously, dude?

That doesn't even remotely relate to my other post because I wasn't at all saying "MARCH IS ALL THAT MATTERS, BARD'S SHOULDN'T SING CAROLS, SCHERZO, ETC."

Really?

My post was trying to evaluate the overall usefulness of "All Songs +4" and how this applies to our most important songs (March, Ballad, and Scherzo), although it would undoubtedly be affecting all of our songs. I simply came to the conclusion that "All Songs +4" is nice, but hardly an improvement over a Brd without Gjallarhorn, and that a third tier of March could potentially buff Gjallarhorn well.

I've never said once that Bard is only for Marches, and I'm a STRONG supporter of being a Brd that does more than just sing their songs and afk in a corner.

And you do realize that March can boost nuker's dmg as well, right? Since MP is such a non-issue now, March is easily one of the best songs TO be singing for Mages to help lower their recast timers. An Etude can be nice for larger Epeen Dmg, but March will provide much more for your mages (Marchx2 + Scherzo comes to mind for a Blm party on Botulus Rex).

So please, before you post stupid shit that doesn't even relate to an original post, just don't.

I was attempting to head off the usual commenters who would pop in to say that there's no point to getting a G-Horn since haste can be capped already, so why waste the effort. Because G-horn works with other songs perhaps? We DO in fact have other things we can do, as you apparently know. Of course, the biggest + of a G-horn is not having to pack a tour bus and 3 roadies for our orchestra equipment.

I gotta disagree with you on lack of Ballad utility, though. New content is going in outside Aby, not in, and MP DOES get to be an issue, one that a G-horn bard would be extremely good at addressing. Ballad 3/2 with a +4 is MP 13/tic over and above whatever inate refresh the mage is capable of, and it frees the mage to worry about other things. Of course, this assumes the melee will keep their separation to not have their buff songs overwritten.

Of course, the original post I commented on does make a pretty strong argument in favor of our Empy harp, even if you didn't intend it to. Even without a +4 on a song our buffs can boost whatever by significant ammounts as the base figuring in your post clearly shows. While 2 songs with +4 on them might be very nice, clearly a Marchx2/Scherzo/Mambo (as an example) might be even more useful, especially with any kind of song duration +. If you are trying to split songs you are stuck with the bard range problem with harps range, but we bards should be used to that by now.

Creelo

01-25-2012, 12:19 AM

I gotta disagree with you on lack of Ballad utility, though. New content is going in outside Aby, not in, and MP DOES get to be an issue, one that a G-horn bard would be extremely good at addressing. Ballad 3/2 with a +4 is MP 13/tic over and above whatever inate refresh the mage is capable of, and it frees the mage to worry about other things. Of course, this assumes the melee will keep their separation to not have their buff songs overwritten.

I did mention this. :/

Ballad+5
Gjallarhorn's extra Ballad+ is nice, but really only useful for events where MP regeneration isn't as easy. VW has Temp Items, Abyssea has Atmas, so it's not really needed there. Not to mention /sch and /rdm both provide awesome abilities for restoring MP. Marches would instead be more beneficial, especially for stun recast timers. New events like Legion could bring back Ballad+'s usefulness though.

Of course, the original post I commented on does make a pretty strong argument in favor of our Empy harp, even if you didn't intend it to. Even without a +4 on a song our buffs can boost whatever by significant ammounts as the base figuring in your post clearly shows. While 2 songs with +4 on them might be very nice, clearly a Marchx2/Scherzo/Mambo (as an example) might be even more useful, especially with any kind of song duration +. If you are trying to split songs you are stuck with the bard range problem with harps range, but we bards should be used to that by now.

There's no doubt that Daurdabla is a better instrument than Gjallarhorn; however, you don't have to use Daurdabla like you're saying. You could sing two songs with Gjallarhorn, then the last two with Daurdabla, and as long as those four songs are kept up on yourself and other party members, you could then keep singing four songs with just Gjallarhorn.

At least that's how it would work in a perfect world lol, usually someone will either be out of range or run out of range of buffing, or the mob might dispel one or more of someone's song buffs.

Dyceorigin

02-25-2014, 12:54 PM

Wouldnt the best thing to do be to remove the "Song Duration +" effect from Empy Harp and afix it to Ghorn, then replace Harp with "Song Casting Time/Recast -"? Then it would work perfectly with Harp for prebuff and Ghorn for main buff sets.

Grekumah

12-05-2014, 09:13 AM

A job trait that prevent etude degradation.

I am becoming the necro-master.

The team is in the process of looking into change the way Etude functions so that the effects do not decrease over time. We would also like to revamp the effect duration when making this adjustment.

Additionally, we will be looking into revamping the Absorb-type spells that have similar effects.

:cool:

Crevox

12-05-2014, 12:58 PM

Sometimes it's just really difficult to find a relevant post to put that translated dev response into...

:)

Zhronne

12-05-2014, 09:00 PM

Sometimes it's just really difficult to find a relevant post to put that translated dev response into...

:)
Hahaha was thinking the same :D

Glamdring

12-06-2014, 08:41 AM

someone is still using etudes? wow, I haven't been asked for one of those in at least 5 years.

Fobby

12-06-2014, 03:59 PM

The only time I've ever had to use etudes in game would be during a 2 bard setup swap in Divine Might 2. After 2 preludes and 5 minutes, there's still room for Scherzo and up to 2 etudes if bards have daurdabla99. But hey, not like there are enough NA rangers on Lakshmi to set up a Divine Might 2 run consistently right?

On a side note, where's that Massacre Elegy/super march? oh wait wrong thread...

Grekumah

02-28-2015, 08:08 AM

Greetings,

We have an update in regards to Etude adjustments.

We’re planning to adjust Etudes so their effects do not decrease over time in the next planned job adjustment in March.

Enchanting Etude / Spirited Etude / Learned Etude / Quick Etude / Vivacious Etude / Dextrous Etude / Sinewy Etude / Bewitching Etude / Logical Etude / Sage Etude / Swift Etude / Vital Etude / Uncanny Etude / Herculean Etude

We’ll post information on other job adjustments at a later time on topics, so please look forward to it!

Malthar

02-28-2015, 08:26 AM

Grekumah, what about that third tier of march that was promised?

Crevox

02-28-2015, 11:17 AM

Grekumah, what about that third tier of march that was promised?

Source? I'm going to highly doubt they "promised."

Urteil

02-28-2015, 12:18 PM

I know this isn't exactly the "right" thread. But the DRK thread seriously seems like nobody ever looks at it?

What about adjustments to Absorbs so they don't decay over time in this next update?

Ophannus

02-28-2015, 04:00 PM

There would be little benefit if any for a 3rd tier of March. I'd rather have a third Elegy. Right now you still need 2 marches to cap haste unless getting haste2 or something.

dasva

02-28-2015, 05:13 PM

There would be little benefit if any for a 3rd tier of March. I'd rather have a third Elegy. Right now you still need 2 marches to cap haste unless getting haste2 or something.

Wouldn't the benefit be maybe not needing 2 marches to cap haste...? Granted I seriously doubt they'd make one that powerful but still

Edit: Actually now that I think about it it wouldn't take much with marcato if march III had just 2 more haste than victory it would be enough to cap magic haste with just haste spell

VoiceMemo

02-28-2015, 09:01 PM

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12312-Bard-Job-Manifesto

What about our Massacre Elegy? Been waiting 3 years and counting since that post.

Crevox

03-01-2015, 05:34 AM

They "had" plans; those plans may no longer exist.

It's not like bards are in a bad place right now. They are still used in practically all content. I don't believe they are in need of any buffs.

Vinedrai

03-01-2015, 06:10 PM

They "had" plans; those plans may no longer exist.

It's not like bards are in a bad place right now. They are still used in practically all content. I don't believe they are in need of any buffs.

Agreed. It is the last job in need of a buff... after geo... geo is just... ridicilous.

VoiceMemo

03-01-2015, 08:59 PM

If SE has changed their minds about not giving massacre elegy, all I want them to say is "we've changed our minds" or a no for the spell.
I've asked for a status update many times

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39899-Massacre-Elegy

yet SE has yet to reply. Instead they keep dangling that carrot(massacre elegy) infront of me. I keep asking because other jobs got the
spells/ja's they wanted. SMN got 2 avatars, RDM got haste 2. I'm sure there are more but those are the 2 that people have asked for a long
time and SE did give it to them.

So why do those jobs get what they wanted and brds don't?

My only guess is because SE wrote themselves into a corner beause they thought Abyssea was the end all to the game. When looking at Emp+2 gear,
it has some of the unique stats that apply to songs only(before new reforged AF and Relic came along). Also if you look at the spell progression
list of how songs progressed until the 75 cap, there is a 31 level gap between advancing march(lvl 29) and victory march(60) and a 20 level gap
between battlefield elegy(39) and carnage elegy(59). If we extend these level gaps a 3rd tier march should have falling in the 92-99 range and
massacre elegy should have fallen at 79 range. Though this does not explain how lower level HNMs(at the time of lvl 75) could use the spell.
I point out ROC could cast the spell, but his estimated lvl is around 55, less it's just the ROC family of type mobs that can use it regardless of level.

Granted because of the nature of massacre elegy(100% slow) this is probably why not at the lvl 79 range, but I've made numerious posts on
possible solutions to how they could add massacre elegy and fit their desire to have it a spell not obtainable by everyone.

1)Most difficult way, require Mythic 99 or 119, relic 99, emp 99 and associate it to a quest to unlock it.
2)Time driven way, add it as a gift for X amount of job points used(like 500 or some high number)
3)Easy way, add it as Gjallahorn specific spell(as I've been a long time propoant that sheild and horn should get a special ja/spell associated
with it, akin to unique ws for weapons)

I just would like a definitive "yes" or "no" answer from SE.