Casual FFXI

[Rezeak]

Look honestly the way forward for FFXI is to meet the wants of the casual players.

Why ?

Before SE had expansions to keep casual players busy as they explored, discovered and leveled other jobs and completed the story based quests over time.

While the hardcore players would go to sea/sky/dyna/HNM and use there extra time to gain sort after gear.

Now the we're in a declining FFXI and new content which is added should be aimed at both groups not 1 (since it's limited how much SE can add)

The perfect example of this is abyssea

While a casual player could easily get 1 or 2 sets of gear for a job w/ an emperyan a hardcore player/s could do this for multiple jobs

Now we're moving on to VW and WoE

For hardcore players that can play everyday it kinda works the time sinks are still huge but it works for those that want the best of the best.
But for the casual player it's impossible for them (there is really no way a casual player is gonna spend month of a 95 woe weapon or years on 95 emperyan weapon) and the drops arn't that good to justify the time put in.

Anyway i guess what i'm asking for is that SE doesn't exclude casual players from certain event by make the rewards suck or need a huge amount of time to get so that FFXI can last longer with more people.

Btw imo the difference between casual and hardcore player imo should be this

A Hardcore player will have 5-10 jobs perfectly geared with multiple empyrean and maybe a relic or mythic on there favorite job

A Casual player will have 1 perfectly geared job with an emperyan and say 6-7 decently geared jobs.

[Krashport]

Most casual games have similar basic features:

Extremely simple gameplay, like a puzzle game that can be played entirely using a one-button mouse or cellphone keypad
Allowing gameplay in short bursts, during work breaks or, in the case of portable and cell phone games, on public transportation
The ability to quickly reach a final stage, or continuous play with no need to save the game
Some variant on a "try before you buy" business model or an advertising-based model

The word "casual" indicates that the games are produced for the casual consumer, who comes across the game and can get into gameplay almost immediately. Every month, an estimated 200 million consumers play casual games online, many of whom do not normally regard themselves as gamers, or fans of video games.

Casual games are usually free on-line or free to download and try (but may provide a revenue by in-game advertising). Commercial studios create downloadable games, primarily available on the PC. These games are typically addictive and are limited trials to encourage casual gamers to buy a permanent "deluxe" version for a small price (typically $20 or less). They usually have more intensive graphics and sound. Recently, 100% free "full licensed versions" of casual games have become available through advertising.

Indie game developers often create free games for online play. These games have a wide range of gameplay styles, can be played on almost any computer, and are often written to be played from within a web browser, using Flash, or Shockwave. They are more limited in the scope of action, graphics and sound than downloadable games since they are played through the browser. However, many of these developers have pushed the technological envelope in what is possible through the browser – often creating full 3D games, 2 player capabilities, save games and other advanced features.

FF11 is doomed... well maybe it'll go free to play like FF14!

Why not play Final Fantasy 11 casually and take it for what it is...

[Atomic_Skull]

Casual players are less likely to play long term than hardcore players.

[Vold]

Out of all of my friends in this game(dozens), right now every single one of them have basically quit except one. Those that quit I would call casual players. Some took it more seriously than others but at the end of the day they did not slave away at end game so I can not call them hardcore. At best, casual hardcore. Now, explain to me the logic behind catering to casual players all the time? We see how voidwatch turned out. It doesn't work. It's loot system is absolutely designed to appease casual gamers. There are plenty of linkshells that still exist with players who want to treat their MMOs like MMOs. It makes no logical or financial sense to cater to the solo player/low man group 100% of the time and give the middle finger to the hardcore gamer.

And for the record, the average casual player is never going to own an Empyrean and they darn sure will not have 6-7 jobs leveled to cap. You overestimate the casual gamer.

Finally, people need to get used to the idea where some content is simply out of your reach if you refuse to do what it takes to attain it. Those of us who's been around for years know this already. This is true in every MMO. What you are asking is for stuff to be handed to you on a silver platter. FFXI cannot afford to do that beyond transitional add ons like Abyssea that cost extra dollars. We're level 95 now. Casual players have an entire games worth of end game content that they were locked out of for years. Plenty of that gear and content is still relevant. Hardcores have Voidwatch, and to some extent Abyssea, but it's mostly just Voidwatch. Casuals - entire game. Hardcores - Voidwatch. Casuals - entire game. Hardcores - Voidwatch. Casuals - entire game. Hardcores - Voidwatch.

So, yeah. This thread is really about the weapon upgrades to 95. You didn't really think you were going to have a free ride all the way to 99, did you? After all that fuss about their damage and relics/mythics costing so much more time etc. So your weapon is stuck at 90. Big deal. It'll still be #3 behind the 95 and 99 versions. And #3 is like 0-100 fold better than #4 depending on the weapon type and it's relic counter part. You'll live.

[cidbahamut]

Since when do casual players participate in endgame content?

[Ryce]

Casual FFXI player here. I have to agree with Vold. I've been playing since the NA release. Went to Sky for the first time earlier this year. Went to Dyna for the first time after the update. There is a TON of content that is simply out of reach for the casual player, and that's a good thing. It has kept me interested for a long time. I /drool over these pimped out players and think that maybe one day I'll have the schedule and linkshell to get some of that stuff myself.

With the level cap increase and eased restrictions in older content, I can finally go back and play that content that I always wanted to be a part of. Yeah, the gear is no longer the cream of the crop, but it was still awesome to get the killshot on Kirin my first time up in sky. I still love my lvl 50 Soboro. The CoP cutscenes are still just as good.

I hope there is some new content for me to check out in the future, but I still have a lot of catching up to do. I'm just starting the first Abyssea stage of my first Emp. I'm close to finishing +2 sets on my 2 favorite jobs. There's still a lot of game to be played. I'd rather SE give some challenging content to the "hardcore" players so they will stick around to help out us casuals.

[Hayward]

People really need to get out of this mentality that game content needs to be out of reach of the "commoners" to be a good game. How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration? The CoP era should have been the first and last lesson for S-E on catering too much toward the so-called hardcore players. Sadly, Aht Urghan proved they learned little about drawing and maintaining a casual base (see: Salvage, Mythic Weapons, etc.).

After so many years, S-E got it nearly perfect with Abyssea and now they're content to just throw that away in favor of pandering to a small constituency that couldn't care less about the overall game so long as they can feel superior to everyone else--in a video game.

[Insaniac]

There is a middle ground between .5% drop rates on unsharable r/e drops that you may not even be able to use and 1500plate/300mil/2000hour grinds and "the silver platter" that may be worth exploring.

[Avidon]

Casual or hardcore, at the end of the day when the game is off, what do you have? You can have the baddest gear in the game but all your accomplishments mean nothing outside of you're bedroom/office. This hardcore attitude doesn't impress anyone. It's a game. Just chill and have fun. It only took me 7 years to learn that.

[Bizniztyme]

Casual or hardcore, at the end of the day when the game is off, what do you have? You can have the baddest gear in the game but all your accomplishments mean nothing outside of you're bedroom/office. This hardcore attitude doesn't impress anyone. It's a game. Just chill and have fun. It only took me 7 years to learn that.

Very well said!!!!

[Zarchery]

People really need to get out of this mentality that game content needs to be out of reach of the "commoners" to be a good game. How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration? The CoP era should have been the first and last lesson for S-E on catering too much toward the so-called hardcore players. Sadly, Aht Urghan proved they learned little about drawing and maintaining a casual base (see: Salvage, Mythic Weapons, etc.).

After so many years, S-E got it nearly perfect with Abyssea and now they're content to just throw that away in favor of pandering to a small constituency that couldn't care less about the overall game so long as they can feel superior to everyone else--in a video game.

Nobody is pandering to anyone or ditching casual players. If they got it so perfect with Abyssea, do Abyssea. If Voidwatch sucks, don't do Voidwatch. Content that appeases the more hardcore players does not exclude casual players. It's perfectly simple.

[Yinnyth]

People really need to get out of this mentality that game content needs to be out of reach of the "commoners" to be a good game. How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration? The CoP era should have been the first and last lesson for S-E on catering too much toward the so-called hardcore players. Sadly, Aht Urghan proved they learned little about drawing and maintaining a casual base (see: Salvage, Mythic Weapons, etc.).

After so many years, S-E got it nearly perfect with Abyssea and now they're content to just throw that away in favor of pandering to a small constituency that couldn't care less about the overall game so long as they can feel superior to everyone else--in a video game.

When I first started the game, I was a casual player. I wasn't in an endgame LS. I didn't kill HNMs or do sky. Loot was nice, but I cared more about roleplaying a Tarutaru than the weapon sheathed on my side (yes, I ended every word which ended with 't' in 'aru'). I loved CoP. Sure, most of the people in my social LS (myself included) sucked and we wiped like 7 times on each promyvion boss, but it was something to strive for, and every step you made rewarded you. A slowly unfolding storyline, access to beautiful new zones, well-composed music, ordeals to overcome with my friends... THESE are the things that a CASUAL PLAYER cares about. A hardcore gamer cares about rajas ring, and everything about your post screams "I want all the rajas rings in the game".

If you claim SE got it right with abyssea, you cannot claim to be a casual player because abyssea was (at the time) an endgame loot grind with flat storyline, 3 new songs, and uglified zones (pink uleguerand? wtf). Casual players-- when they play an mmorpg-- care about the journey. You care about the loot. That makes you an endgamer.

So in response to: "How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration?" Casual gamers don't care about the stuff that's out of their reach. They don't care that there's people with better shinies than they have. They are in fact, the hardest group of players to turn away because yesterday's endgame is tomorrow's casual playground. You don't sound like a casual player. You sound like a disenchanted endgamer who no longer feels the grind is paying off.

Trust me; more people would quit the game if next update gave everyone level 500 and ultra-upgraded super empyreans than would quit if next update released a ridiculously difficult neo-AV. There's no sense of fulfillment when everything is too easy.

[Winrie]

Hayward honestly sounds like to me, either someone who started right before or during the abyssea era of FFXI and is pretending to know what is what, or he was someone who played back in the HNM days, and couldnt get ahead at all, thus he became a fan of the spoon fed element that was abyssea XI and thats why he is so adamant about how voidwatch and the game pushing back into the phase where things are harder and take more time, such as 95 empys, is wrong and the game should stay on easy mode. Little clue man, not everyone likes easy mode, a lot of us got tired of it with abyssea, most of us need a challenge again.

But yeah, as that one person said, who cares at the end of the day when you log off, if youre unhappy quit or find new goals, those are your only options in reality, aside from complaining on the forums about it.


Oh btw, i dont remember many people quitting over the cop/AU eras of the game because there were many different types of endgame to keep all types of players entertained and all came with adequate amounts of gear. So im really not understanding you man. What lesson is there to learn for SE in regards to content? other than they need to quit with the dumb low drop rates? The lesson they should of learned is that no matter what they do, people will complain, many with misconstrue what the game is off of their own opinions, you cant please everyone at once, that is impossible, Just because you do not like a section of content because its too hard for you, you cant find people for it, ect. doesnt mean its like that for the other 99% of the playerbase. Voidwatch is the only major issue i see people agreeing with lately here, the drop rates do suck, 95 empys coming from its flawed pool system is stupid, and it needs adjusted or people will not do it. and what will happen during that time? people will complain about it horrendously (Oh wait were here already) until SE does something about it if they even do anything at all, and if they do not, will people quit over it? Maybe a small portion, the ones that care too much about being the 'best' with an easy to obtain weapon that difficult to upgrade outside abyssea trials. The others? no, the sensible ones will leave them at 90 until/if something changes, or they will find new crap to do, cause like that other guy said, a 90 empy is always ganna be 3rd best under the other weapons or w/e it places, and above the non empy! so in reality it doesnt matter really, take your pills and relax my friend cuz Thats what FFXI has always been about and thats what it will always be, because as i said, NOT EVERYONE CAN BE PLEASED BY THE SAME THING.

[Yinnyth]

I honestly don't think he and I disagree too much on this, I get the feeling it's mostly a problem of wording and forethought. What I want in the game is new challenges and rewards that make the challenges seem worthwhile. Yes, something that provides a fulfilling challenge to me and my friends in the game would probably be out of the reach of a casual player for a little while. But a game is no fun if it isn't difficult. I doubt he really wants to remove all difficulty from the game, I'm just reading too much into his posts.

[uptempo]

Honestly stuff the casual player.

[Krashport]

IF you want to play a Casual RPG buy an offline game, or an online shooter. M.M.O.R.P.G., Games was never made for Casual game play, But you can play them "Casually" in laymens terms: (At your on pace),. I can see it now a new member to join the FFXI Community asking a in-game GM to hold a NM cause your not going to be online and you want the game to be more Casual for "You".

[Winrie]

IF you want to play a Casual RPG buy an offline game, or an online shooter. M.M.O.R.P.G., Games was never made for Casual game play, But you can play them "Casually" in laymens terms: (At your on pace),. I can see it now a new member to join the FFXI Community asking a in-game GM to hold a NM cause your not going to be online and you want the game to be more Casual for "You".

I like you

[Avidon]

You nailed it bud. Play at you're own pace. It's you're money and I don't see anyone driving a whip to our backs saying "Do It Do It Do IT!!!" unless you're into that sort of thing, but I won't judge.

My only beef with the issue of Hardcore vs Casual is the ones that use bots vs. the ones that do not.
Basically, cheaters. cheaters who for some unlogical reason believe they are skilled players and know everything. On top of that, these same people will go and be-little, take advantage, mock, Ninja lot, or w/e else that may happen that cheats other players. Take away these bots/tools that these "experts" of XI use every logged in second of their gaming, and see how great they are. I've never used a bot, and infact play on the crappy xbox that has delayed loading times and all that great stuff. But I can say that I know what the hell I am doing in game. I dont need graphs, measurements, Nm popping locators, timers, and w/e you kids play with these days.

My point isn't to bring up a topic of Bots. I'm just saying that I as a gamer, and any other person who plays the game as intended, and basically anyone who doesn't run a back round program, is flat out better than you, who does.
I say that because SE will not.
***
If you dont cheat other, tools or not, then pay no mind. Idc what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect others in a negative way.

[Rearden]

Casual FFXI player here. I have to agree with Vold. I've been playing since the NA release. Went to Sky for the first time earlier this year. Went to Dyna for the first time after the update. There is a TON of content that is simply out of reach for the casual player, and that's a good thing. It has kept me interested for a long time. I /drool over these pimped out players and think that maybe one day I'll have the schedule and linkshell to get some of that stuff myself.

With the level cap increase and eased restrictions in older content, I can finally go back and play that content that I always wanted to be a part of. Yeah, the gear is no longer the cream of the crop, but it was still awesome to get the killshot on Kirin my first time up in sky. I still love my lvl 50 Soboro. The CoP cutscenes are still just as good.

I hope there is some new content for me to check out in the future, but I still have a lot of catching up to do. I'm just starting the first Abyssea stage of my first Emp. I'm close to finishing +2 sets on my 2 favorite jobs. There's still a lot of game to be played. I'd rather SE give some challenging content to the "hardcore" players so they will stick around to help out us casuals.

holy.../clap

[Chriscoffey]

Casual FFXI player here. I have to agree with Vold. I've been playing since the NA release. Went to Sky for the first time earlier this year. Went to Dyna for the first time after the update. There is a TON of content that is simply out of reach for the casual player, and that's a good thing. It has kept me interested for a long time. I /drool over these pimped out players and think that maybe one day I'll have the schedule and linkshell to get some of that stuff myself.

With the level cap increase and eased restrictions in older content, I can finally go back and play that content that I always wanted to be a part of. Yeah, the gear is no longer the cream of the crop, but it was still awesome to get the killshot on Kirin my first time up in sky. I still love my lvl 50 Soboro. The CoP cutscenes are still just as good.

I hope there is some new content for me to check out in the future, but I still have a lot of catching up to do. I'm just starting the first Abyssea stage of my first Emp. I'm close to finishing +2 sets on my 2 favorite jobs. There's still a lot of game to be played. I'd rather SE give some challenging content to the "hardcore" players so they will stick around to help out us casuals.
Wow. I mean someone that actually has an understanding about not nerfing everything because you don't beat it your first run through and have to overcome adversity.

[Mirabelle]

It seems to me that there is a definitional problem here. What is "casual"? What is "hardcore". I consider myself a casual player since I only play a few hours each day and some on the weekends. I have a fulltime job and frequently travel. Others may consider a casual player as someone that only comes on once a month to chat with LS mates. I'd consider that a fringe player.
As a casual (by my definition) player, I'd agree with the OP in that a major goal of mine is always to get one or two jobs very well geared. And it may take me months or years to do it, but as long as I feel I can progress to that goal in my time on game I enjoy myself.
People always say its the casual player that quits. But do they quit because they are casual or do they quit because the game caters to the hardcore by making too many things out of reach for a casual player? IMO its the latter. once you've explored the game and levelled, there wasn't a lot before abyssea that you could do in small groups and be successful. That's certainly changed and Aby was the biggest boon to casuals if you ask me. You could get 3-4 people together and kill stuff and advance.
VWNM seems to be the reverse process again but maybe at 99 it will be different.
I hope SE won't forget the few times a week player as they move forward.

[Aarahs]

All that means for you, Mirabelle, is that it will take you longer to achieve your goals than the guy who plays twice as much. I personally still have assaults, nyzul, WotG, and some misc things to complete still, but I'm doing what I can day by day. I also have an empy weapon in progress, but instead of whining about it, I'm actually doing something about it.

[Yinnyth]

It seems to me that there is a definitional problem here. What is "casual"? What is "hardcore". I consider myself a casual player since I only play a few hours each day and some on the weekends. I have a fulltime job and frequently travel. Others may consider a casual player as someone that only comes on once a month to chat with LS mates. I'd consider that a fringe player.
As a casual (by my definition) player, I'd agree with the OP in that a major goal of mine is always to get one or two jobs very well geared. And it may take me months or years to do it, but as long as I feel I can progress to that goal in my time on game I enjoy myself.
People always say its the casual player that quits. But do they quit because they are casual or do they quit because the game caters to the hardcore by making too many things out of reach for a casual player? IMO its the latter. once you've explored the game and levelled, there wasn't a lot before abyssea that you could do in small groups and be successful. That's certainly changed and Aby was the biggest boon to casuals if you ask me. You could get 3-4 people together and kill stuff and advance.
VWNM seems to be the reverse process again but maybe at 99 it will be different.
I hope SE won't forget the few times a week player as they move forward.

It's my opinion that "casual" and "hardcore" is more a matter of attitude than playtime. A hardcore gamer being one who takes pride in being one of the best <job>s on the server, and a casual player being one who plays to soak it all in. The hardcore gamer cares about levels, merits, and equipment above all else. The casual gamer cares more about storyline, music, spending time with friends, decorating their moghouse, wearing pretty armor, etc. There are obviously varying degrees and overlap in all players.

If you base "casual" or "hardcore" on playtime, our LS has become more casual lately because goals don't take as long to reach as they used to (thanks, abyssea) and rewards for new stuff are less impressive than what we've already earned in abyssea, so there's just not as much to work for. Our attitude is still more "hardcore"- we're still more about exp, merits, gear, and playskill than most people, there's just... nothing productive to do.

[Camiie]

You didn't really think you were going to have a free ride all the way to 99, did you?

As long as I've played this game, the only things I've got for free are what other players gifted me, the weapon that came with my character, a starter magian weapon from the box, and a Rounsey Wand. I've done everything extensively except voidwatch. I'm still looking for all this free gear people are talking about. I really wish I could find it. Help me out?

[Saefinn]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours. I think the Emps are good example of this:
Initial Trials - Kill x lottery spawn y number of times. Lotttery Spawn usually ~2hours, some can spawn up to a lot more. If you're going to camp it you're probably spending at least 2hours per kill on an NM that dies in just a few hits, otherwise it comes down to luck - in the end the NM I thought, "I'll casually do this trial, but walking in to see if it's up" I gave in and camped it because it was never up. In essence you could be spending hours doing nothing and I speak to players who do this as though it's not a problem. In my mind, if you're doing that, you're not actually playing a game. Hence 0 emps by my name.

I did spend massive time sinks not only in levelling different jobs but in endgame content too and I'm thinking there's no way a casual player could enjoy this and like with AF3 seals you might get luck and have yours drops frequently or not and spends a lot of time on a NM with little or no reward.

I could only find enjoyment out of spending hours at a time because that's what it takes to get some reward out of it. What I feel would be nice for the game is if somebody could jump in, have some fun for a short while, feel like they've made progress and then go do something non-FFXI related. Now to be fair, there's some parts of the game that are fun, I mean there were NM fights I've enjoyed with people I've made friends with in game and there's a lot of great points about FFXI - you might do an MB and be 1/9, therefore you've achieved something. But it really isn't for the casual player, hence I've stopped playing. Love the game, but to have fun it meant spending a lot of time on it and I'd rather not turn a video game into a project. For me to continue I wouldn't say make the game easy - in fact, it IS easy already, I just agree with the OP that the time sinks are still huge. I would actually prefer something 'challenging' to a 'time sink', because something challenging is interesting and it keeps you hooked. Limit Break 5, that was challenging, not necessarily a massive time sink, you only had to win the fight once to break past level 70, yet it was a challenge and one thing I still say is, "I enjoyed G5". The reward is because you've put in the effort to win and your victory wasn't based on a sure win formula...unless of course you've chosen a job where the formula works for most (if not all) - at least every person who did SAM I spoke to got 1/1, I didn't do SAM for mine.



All in all, I think the OP is spot on. There's a level where people (referred to as casual players) lose interest and for FFXI to continue it will need to keep their interest. It's true, fewer and fewer people play the game.

[Krashport]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours. I think the Emps are good example of this:
Initial Trials - Kill x lottery spawn y number of times. Lotttery Spawn usually ~2hours, some can spawn up to a lot more. If you're going to camp it you're probably spending at least 2hours per kill on an NM that dies in just a few hits, otherwise it comes down to luck - in the end the NM I thought, "I'll casually do this trial, but walking in to see if it's up" I gave in and camped it because it was never up. In essence you could be spending hours doing nothing and I speak to players who do this as though it's not a problem. In my mind, if you're doing that, you're not actually playing a game. Hence 0 emps by my name.

Every game has a time sink some more then others, Just think if everyone can get their NMs w/in mins of camping, How packed would abyssea be, The way it is setup is for Balance! Maybe you set your goals in an online game a little bit to high, Then got frustrated and quit.


hence I've stopped playing. Love the game, but to have fun it meant spending a lot of time on it and I'd rather not turn a video game into a project. For me to continue I wouldn't say make the game easy - in fact, it IS easy already, I just agree with the OP that the time sinks are still huge.

Why are people typing on the forums if they have quit the game... kinda makes no sense, Your trying to change and give your ideas as to how the game "should" play for "you" that you don't even play anymore.. to hell with the members that are playing and have been playing FFXI for 6~9+ years eh..?

I can totally understand and respect Causal gamers but asking to change FFXI to a Causal game would never work why not just play it Causally? look on the bright side you can always go play a Causal FFXIV. I mean SE changed a lot of things w/in FFXI for the Causal player what more do you want.

I don't see any of us "Fans" BSin about a discount for all these up dates you get us in, Maybe us "Fans" should all go on strike and start boycotting then well see how much Causal FFXI will be!

I really would like to know what plans do the Master minds @ SE "If there is anymore left" Have in store for new content stop with the easy-hardcore button already, Do we "All" have anything other then; (Make this game easy, Make it more hardcore, to look forward to?) Its an online game for crying out loud its the way you play it, We are "All" paying a monthly fee for it.

[Yinnyth]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours.

Does anyone have a link to a jpg of the splash screen you get everytime you log into the game? Anyone? Something about immersive experience, don't forget about the outside world...

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who plays an MMORPG (or any RPG, for that matter) who does not understand the concept of "grinding". At some point, the grinding will kill off ANY player, myself included. That goes for EVERYTHING in the game though. "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." -Paracelsus

Some people simply have a lower tolerance for certain poisons. The grinding killed you off sooner than it killed me off.

But it really isn't for the casual player, hence I've stopped playing.

And to be perfectly honest, I am sorry to hear that. It's more fun when the things which entertain me also entertain other people. There are many things SE does which rub me the wrong way, but rarely is it the grind. If it's a tedious, unchallenging grind, I simply watch TV or listen to music as I'm doing it. If it's difficult, I relish the challenge.

[Saefinn]

Every game has a time sink some more then others, Just think if everyone can get their NMs w/in mins of camping, How packed would abyssea be, The way it is setup is for Balance! Maybe you set your goals in an online game a little bit to high, Then got frustrated and quit.

People can get their NMs within mins of camping in Abyssea - popped NMs don't take long to pop and spawn NMs are usually 10 mins, some NMs have more than one spawn. Sometime's there's competition, sometimes there isn't and all competition means is - you're either courteous and take it in turns or go for the quickest finger. I know there's some exceptions to how often a NM in Aby spawns.

It wasn't a rage quit or anything like that, it was more or less the realisation that the grind was pretty much hours of basically doing nothing or doing the same thing a hundred times over and I figured that I didn't want to waste my time anymore.

Perhaps people like doing that, if so, then fine and if SE wants to cater to that then that's up to them too. Obviously I won't be playing, fewer and fewer players are playing the game (hence the purpose of the OP), so I suspect SE will want to do something to keep the interest of more people and my feedback is basically why I lost interest. Or I guess people will go over to FFXIV and as soon as the PS3 release comes out, I might be tempted, but from the sounds of it, it needs a lot of work itself.


Why are people typing on the forums if they have quit the game... kinda makes no sense,

Simple, feedback and sharing an opinion, precisely what these forums are for. I may have quit, but it doesn't mean that in the future I can't come back, especially if a future update appeals enough to me then I might. SE has taken a big wad of my cash, just like the rest of you, so I think my opinion counts too. :p


Your trying to change and give your ideas as to how the game "should" play for "you" that you don't even play anymore.. to hell with the members that are playing and have been playing FFXI for 6~9+ years eh..?

Everybody has opinions on the game and how it should play for 'them', heck, if some compromise would be made where SE can keep the most number of players, then that's good and if they appealed to me then I'd probably play again. SE's made massive changes to make the game easier and there's a lot of folk that didn't like that, including those who have played for a great number of years, so I think SE has already said 'to hell with them'. My view is that if they wanted to appeal to what in this thread has been referred to as a 'casual' player then as one of them I'd say, keep it challenging, but in my mind, time sinks are wasted time - now I realise they can't just give you your gear willy nilly, but if it's going to take me time to get an item then I'd prefer it to take time because it's a challenge. It took me a while to beat my G5 fight, yet I do not feel that it was wasted time because I enjoyed the challenge...heck that fight was frustrating, but I loved it. Was there a grind? Yes, my grinding was spent skilling up, but also getting testimonies and luckily, my testimony wasn't impossible to solo, though I remember as a level 90 helping plenty of other folks with theirs because they couldn't solo them.


Does anyone have a link to a jpg of the splash screen you get everytime you log into the game? Anyone? Something about immersive experience, don't forget about the outside world...


Regardless, even if you spend 2 hours a day (or a week, or 1 hour or whatever) you're going to be spending a lot of wasted hours just not in one go. You might spend that 2 hours camping an NM, then the next day 2 hours camping the next NM for your trial and so on. You'll just find it goes more slowly, but you're still putting in a big time sink.



I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who plays an MMORPG (or any RPG, for that matter) who does not understand the concept of "grinding".

I understand grinding, in fact I don't mind it, I play a lot of RPG games and have also played other MMORPGs. Would it actually be a surprise to the discussion if I were to say that I miss the old non 'book burn' exp parties? I've sat in places like Qufim just to find people and put my flag up to only be waiting for ages to only end up with a "Crawler's Nest Do you need it?" It would actually seem quite contradictory because book burns mean you level up quicker, but when you found yourself in a good party it didn't actually matter you were getting a couple of levels a day (if you were playing casually) because you felt like you were actually playing the game, with a book burn it's pretty much, lets sit here and do next to nothing to get some levels. See what I mean when I say 'wasted time'. I loved Wajoam Woodlands, I loved Western Altepa Desert and what I also loved was trying out new camps in weird places because all others were taken - that party we had in Behemoth's Dominion just before BB came to fruition was ace.

Perhaps that's my problem, it no longer felt like I was playing a game and that I was wasting time. Of course, I'm not gonna force my opinions on anybody else, I think the game could have done more to keep me playing. Naturally I understand they're not going to please everybody. :)

[Krashport]

Simple, feedback and sharing an opinion, precisely what these forums are for. I may have quit, but it doesn't mean that in the future I can't come back, especially if a future update appeals enough to me then I might. SE has taken a big wad of my cash, just like the rest of you, so I think my opinion counts too. :p

This is the kind of people SE is catering to now, so if the future updates appeals to them they will play for 2 weeks or a bit longer Then get frustrated and quit again. I don't know really what to call this Causal... hardcore.. totally not a fan.. a person that doesn't know what they want.. sh!t I give up! one would think if you quit its um Game Over why waste your time and put yourself in a uh oh "Time sink" typing on a Game Forum that your really not part of anymore you did quit right?

[Saefinn]

I don't think you've read the entirety of my post, SE is making the game easier, which is actually the opposite of what would keep my interest, sure you can level up a lot quicker, but that isn't the only place that's a time sink and oddly enough I feel a BB is more of a waste of time than the old regular party, because the old regular party could be fun (though I thought double exp was a good idea) whereas a BB is just for the sake of getting something out at the end. That's how I've defined these wasted time syncs - time spent doing something that's not interesting for a reward at the end. I've tried getting old exp parties, but they're rare.

Casual vs Hardcore, I just been using the terms used over in the thread, though I don't think they've actually been properly defined.


one would think if you quit its um Game Over why waste your time and put yourself in a uh oh "Time sink" typing on a Game Forum that your really not part of anymore you did quit right?

I saw the thread (I've been browsing the forums to see how people have responded to the update) and offered my own feedback, people responded to points raised I can at least be polite enough to read them and respond.

But just because you quit doesn't mean you can't come back, in fact, I'm sure SE would love it if the thousands of people who have previously quit would come back.

[Mirabelle]

All that means for you, Mirabelle, is that it will take you longer to achieve your goals than the guy who plays twice as much. I personally still have assaults, nyzul, WotG, and some misc things to complete still, but I'm doing what I can day by day. I also have an empy weapon in progress, but instead of whining about it, I'm actually doing something about it.

I think its not just play time but group sizes that plays into it. Whenever you need 18 well geared characters spending 12 hrs together in order to advance, it becomes hardcore and not casual based. Abyssea is nice that way. Its easier to get small groups and do things for a few hours and feel you've made progress. Old Dyna, Old Sky, Old Sea, Old HNM's were not like that. VWNM certainly isn't that bad but could have been made a bit better.

[Psxpert2011]

I think there's a wrong feeling and perspective to who and what is a casual/hard core player.

-You do what ever it take to beat the game, unlock secrets etc.
-It relaxes you after a hard days RL work, gaming's a hobby whether serious or to kill time.

Mix and match what ever you like.. if your a casual complaining about this and that on an MMO... remember, SE designed this game FOR hardcore Final Fantasy fanboys/girls as well as MMO fans. If your new to the scene, its best you get rolling with the punches.
It's an interesting topic, you can take it any direction.


Casual players aren't here to conform with the design of the game for what ever it worth... you want a party but cant stay online for too long ( this would kinda cancel-out the goal to access of higher level gear and areas but "oh,well"), play offline Final Fantasy where you have an instant party. Another suggestion is to find friends of family who love MMOs or Final Fantasy so they can log with you and play, (there you go, resources and instant party members).

Casual gaming vs hardcore gaming are terms which divide the playing field, something that affects the game dynamics drastically and is something I don't like. A game is designed... DESIGNED to make players play... PLAY. If your not play then the company who designed it must be doing something wrong. It's also a social network and people learn to get along, share experiences and (maybe) compete.

Even if the game has something really hard (designed for the hard-core) and you don't like it but still play... well, You'll just have to get better at the game then. If you're still playing, it's because the game was designed to get you to PLAY.

You don't like waiting for party/ help ; ; /cry and play an offline FF. That's all I have to say on the subject.


"Peace to all my HARDCORE FF-Gamers. To all the elites the Mnk, Sam and PLD pimps VS the shameless Ninjas in Sylph. Play HARD and take care of one another!"

[Zatias]

To me, hardcore means you're willing to sacrifice your real life time to better yourself in the game.

Casual, on the other hand, means you play on your free time and don't worry too much about loot; priority is enjoying it with your friends.

I consider myself a casual player. I tend to solo or lowman during the majority of my time online. It's nice not feeling the pressure of a big LS's schedule when you have other stuff you want or need to do. That's not saying that big LS equals hardcore, but for much of the "hardcore" events you need (or needed, rather) a decent sized and skilled group.

[Psxpert2011]

To me, hardcore means you're willing to sacrifice your real life time to better yourself in the game.

Casual, on the other hand, means you play on your free time and don't worry too much about loot; priority is enjoying it with your friends.

I consider myself a casual player. I tend to solo or lowman during the majority of my time online. It's nice not feeling the pressure of a big LS's schedule when you have other stuff you want or need to do. That's not saying that big LS equals hardcore, but for much of the "hardcore" events you need (or needed, rather) a decent sized and skilled group.



I Approve!




I'm in a LS who are considered "HARDCORE" but they're just like you and me. They can be on time for a DYNA run every Tuesday and Saturday (yes, ppl still play in Dynamis), organize runs, farm currency and pay members. It's one big happy family.

Those who want to be alone, play solo and not be apart of the big picture tend to complain "this and that": That's my only argument.

Be a well rounded MMO player, I'm not an elite but I'm not casual either... I just care a lot about the game and playing with others (and of-course I want to be ubber-ubber to beat the story ^^).

[Afania]

Now we're moving on to VW and WoE

For hardcore players that can play everyday it kinda works the time sinks are still huge but it works for those that want the best of the best.
But for the casual player it's impossible for them (there is really no way a casual player is gonna spend month of a 95 woe weapon or years on 95 emperyan weapon) and the drops arn't that good to justify the time put in.

Anyway i guess what i'm asking for is that SE doesn't exclude casual players from certain event by make the rewards suck or need a huge amount of time to get so that FFXI can last longer with more people.



IMO Voidwatch is actually more causal friendly than a lot of old EG event at 75 era(dyna/sky/sea/limbus/HNM etc), and still able to satisfy hardcore players.

Causal player usually value RL more than FF, that's why they don't join old lv 75 EG events because it requires committement. And old lv 75 EG event is all about attendance, points, participation in a LS and such. It requires way too much committement if you often want to have dinner with family, have different/irregular work schedule and such. There's no way a causal players can get old lv 75 pimp items like Kirin/ground king/JOL/Odin/DL/omega drops unless you buy them. Because there will always have someone more hardcore with higher attendance or points gets priority to lot them. You may ended up going out with your family for dinner for 3~4 times and ended up behind everyone else on the list. In fact you may not be able to join the LS event at all if you log on on none event time, which happens often if you value RL more than FF.

On the other hand since everyone get equal chance to get VW drop, there will be a chance that causals still able to obtain pimp items. Everyone's chance to get items are equal in VW, hardcore or causal. So you no longer have to worry about attendance and such and able to go out for dinner without worrying. Further more, since most of the smaller LS requires man power to cap lights, they /shout very often. That means you no longer have to do this event with your LS if you missed your LS event, you can do it with other LS and still be able to get drop. Since everyone gets indiviual chests, other LS is willing to accept extra helpers without worrying about ninja lot too.

So yes, you can spend time IRL all you want, log on to game anytime and see a /shout pt, join them and if lucky enough you may get an ex/rare body. That's something will never happen in the old days(except JP, they often /shout for dyna), there's no way you can join a Kirin /shout and see w legs FL for helpers. If you want a w legs, you gonna do event with LS for months. IMO VW just provide a chance for causals to obtain ex/rare items without worrying about attendance and lotting priority.

[Krashport]

Actually, it is unprecedented. I have never heard of an MMO that crashed and burned on launch was revamped and then became a success.

No MMO that has failed it's launch has ever been successful. Moreover, no MMO sequel has ever been successful either. Players see it as "replacing" their favorite game and automatically hate it.

Very true,^^b I think If SQUARE ENIX didn't put so much time into making a new MMO and put all that time and money into their fans with FFXI making it better adding new content more fixes to the old, Then adding level raise and abyssea, or just said hey guys the PC Vs Console wars are over PC wins start upgrading we are remaking Final Fantasy XI, Might have been a better out come. Only successful M.M.O. sequel that I know of would be Ever Quest > Ever Quest II, only thing though it didn't crashed and burned on launch. Maybe they should really think about making FFXIV into a remake.