Relics/Mythics/Empy?

[Detoxy]

Wheres the Relics/Mythics/Empyrean weps at? Would be cool to be pimped out with em while we r Testing Stuff.

[Raksha]

You can get the WoE fake empyreans from one of the moogles in your mog house (well, at least you could last time. havent logged in yet this time around)

[Detoxy]

You can get the WoE fake empyreans from one of the moogles in your mog house (well, at least you could last time. havent logged in yet this time around)
dont want the fake ones i want the real deal but thatll prob have to w8 until they chng them in some way THEN we will get our hands on em

[Tummie]

We are lucky enough to have the WoE version and gear from the Moogle Slips. Mythics/Emps/Relics would be a bit extreme even for testing content.

[Hashmalum]

If people are going to be expected to find the worst case scenarios as far as balance is concerned then they need the gear to do it, simple as that. Not getting that gear indicates that any feedback we make about balance is not going to be taken seriously.

[Karbuncle]

Its a test server, And there are plenty of new things to test with Relic/Emp/Mythic upgrades.

For instance, Relic WS bonuses, Relic Proc Rate bonus, aftermath effect/duration, and so forth. for Empyreans maybe Acc/atk bonus values, Triple Attack rate on Aftermath.

Empyreans could see if ODD went up, or If WS got a dmg boost (doubt it). basically theres a lot that needs to be tested with these weapons.

These would be nice thiings to test ;x

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Get an Empyrean on your main account then when they next do the test-server you'll have it.

That said, I still agree. Would be good to also select the Relic, Mythic and Empyrean weapons.

[Atomic_Skull]

Its a test server, And there are plenty of new things to test with Relic/Emp/Mythic upgrades.

For instance, Relic WS bonuses, Relic Proc Rate bonus, aftermath effect/duration, and so forth. for Empyreans maybe Acc/atk bonus values, Triple Attack rate on Aftermath.

Empyreans could see if ODD went up, or If WS got a dmg boost (doubt it). basically theres a lot that needs to be tested with these weapons.

These would be nice thiings to test ;x

Those aren't the kinds of things SE wants you to test. They want you to test new content and job adjustments not dick around with free relics for lulz. SE already knows if relics have boosted stats they don't need you to test that.

[MDenham]

SE already knows if relics have boosted stats they don't need you to test that.But they may have screwed something up, like making Gungnir useful give Ice Spikes instead of Shock Spikes.

[Detoxy]

But they may have screwed something up, like making Gungnir useful give Ice Spikes instead of Shock Spikes.
AMEN plus current relic and mythic ws r not on par with Empy so sooner or l8r something will be done

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Those aren't the kinds of things SE wants you to test. They want you to test new content and job adjustments not dick around with free relics for lulz. SE already knows if relics have boosted stats they don't need you to test that.

They know what the SCH bonus is and the WAR gimp too. They have people test it to see if it's working properly, so point = NULL.

[Raksha]

It seems to me that it is for testing for unintended consequences.

Like when that new PLD ja was causing aeolian edge to do 99,999 dmg, or cure vs undead doing 99,999 dmg.

[saevel]

They know what the SCH bonus is and the WAR gimp too. They have people test it to see if it's working properly, so point = NULL.

Actually no they don't. Have you played FFXI at all in the past 8 years? SE routinely release content that was untested and had to do emergency maintenance's within 24hrs to fix a bunch of stuff. Need I mention Sneak Attack only working from front of the monster.

[saevel]

It seems to me that it is for testing for unintended consequences.

Like when that new PLD ja was causing aeolian edge to do 99,999 dmg, or cure vs undead doing 99,999 dmg.

Basically this, we're beta testers, and we happen to be the best beta testers available, we've been playing this game for years and know exactly how it works. We can test in days what it would take a development team months to do, the last patch proved that as they were changing a bunch of stuff prior to release based on test server findings.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Actually no they don't. Have you played FFXI at all in the past 8 years? SE routinely release content that was untested and had to do emergency maintenance's within 24hrs to fix a bunch of stuff. Need I mention Sneak Attack only working from front of the monster.

Did you read what I wrote, or just looked at a few words.

I clearly stated: They have people test it to see if it's working properly.

They do however know as I said: What it should do.

[saevel]

Did you read what I wrote, or just looked at a few words.

I clearly stated: They have people test it to see if it's working properly.

They do however know as I said: What it should do.


They know what the SCH bonus is and the WAR gimp too. They have people test it to see if it's working properly, so point = NULL.

And my response is the same, they don't have anyone testing to see if their code actually works as intended. Their SCH bonus could of ended up being a nerf on accident, the WAR nerf could of made Warcry last 5 min and thus be a boost instead. In the past SE has routinely messed up code in such a way that it caused unintended consequences. Really has me curious about what kind of revision control their practicing.

The entire point of the public test server was to have us test their code for them, and provide user feedback on their updates prior to launch. Tanaka could probable care less about our feedback, but the free bug testing service would be welcome.

[Kitkat]

I'm sure that they will give relic/mythic/emp weapons as an option only if they plan to do fundamental changes to them. So far I see no reason to make them accessible as they obviously are working as the dev team expects them to. As far as war is concerned, they want to make sure the nerf isn't an over nerf or breaking something else on war, same goes for sch changes. Last thing anyone wants is a bunch of people rushing over to the test serve just so they can use items that don't actually have but want to try out. Giving access to the WoE version of the gaxe allows a war to test out the impact of the nerf on the WS still and in most cases there is access to a vast majority of good gear already to allow a person to test the intended content. There really is no need to let a person play with the best weapons if they don't correlate with the intended test content.

[Neisan_Quetz]

SE has their own test server and performs their own tests, and makes adjustments as they feel like so no, they don't really need to give us a test server, it just saves them time (this was proven with their announcement on the heavy strike nerf on the JP forums, where they stated they had done similar to QC before it was released to the public). Whether or not they do a thorough test for every little thing is another issue (iirc it's not even necessary to do so most of the time).

[Atomic_Skull]

Last thing anyone wants is a bunch of people rushing over to the test serve just so they can use items that don't actually have but want to try out.

This. If they let people have relics then the test server would immediately be flooded with people who's only interest in the test server is fooling around with a free relic. This is not what the test server is for.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This. If they let people have relics then the test server would immediately be flooded with people who's only interest in the test server is fooling around with a free relic. This is not what the test server is for.

As opposed to now where there has been at most 3 people online.

More people = More chance to break additions added... that's not a bad thing. That's the whole point of the server.

[NDSI]

They don't give out those category of weapons due the simple reason they want things to be tested in their most raw form, making the weapons available would make testing fights useless, as you would be testing it with weapons that not everyone can get easily, that is why Abyssea/Trial+2, are available as they are easier to obtain.

[Laraul]

This. If they let people have relics then the test server would immediately be flooded with people who's only interest in the test server is fooling around with a free relic. This is not what the test server is for.

No... it's for gaining 100,000,000 gil instantly... learning every spell and ability in game... warping to any area... no doubt by giving relic equipment would change everything and everyone would migrate...

You want us to test... give us the equipment necessary for it.

[Alhanelem]

The test server isn't for playing with toys you can't otherwise obtain. It's for testing new content and finding bugs.



You want us to test... give us the equipment necessary for it. how is an empyrean/relic/mythic weapon necessary to test new content?

They're going to give us an invincibility command for gosh sake, it wont matter what weapons you're using.

[Karbuncle]

how is an empyrean/relic/mythic weapon necessary to test new content?



'Because the hidden effects and upgrades to those weapons are new content ^^?

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want the Relic/Emp/Mythics to fight the new mobs, I'd want them to test if theres any Hidden WS Damage upgrades, ODD/ODT Procs, Etc etc.

Improvements to Job Specifics on the Mythics.

So forth.

[Alhanelem]

'Because the hidden effects and upgrades to those weapons are new content ^^?What hidden effects? there aren't any.

(edit note: Not any NEW ones. This turned out to be wrong, but I feel this clarification was necessary)


I'd want them to test if theres any Hidden WS Damage upgrades, ODD/ODT Procs, Etc etc.There aren't any.

(See above)

[Byrth]

What hidden effects? there aren't any.

There aren't any.

http://images.bluegartr.com/images/smilies/meme/What.png

[Theytak]

'Because the hidden effects and upgrades to those weapons are new content ^^?

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want the Relic/Emp/Mythics to fight the new mobs, I'd want them to test if theres any Hidden WS Damage upgrades, ODD/ODT Procs, Etc etc.

Improvements to Job Specifics on the Mythics.

So forth.

The only people who are affected by that type of thing are the people who already have them, and those people still have them on the test server. If they really need to know before changes go live, they can (if on pc) get on the test server themselves and find out, they don't need the bulk of us who don't have empy/mythic/relic weapons to do the testing for them. Unless they're a console player, but in that case there are still plenty of holders who play on pc and can test shit in their place.


What hidden effects? there aren't any.

There aren't any.

http://images.bluegartr.com/images/smilies/meme/What.png

[Alhanelem]

See now, since the relic armors are now a subject of testing, it makes sense to be given those and fortunately, we already can be.

[Karbuncle]

The only people who are affected by that type of thing are the people who already have them, and those people still have them on the test server. If they really need to know before changes go live, they can (if on pc) get on the test server themselves and find out, they don't need the bulk of us who don't have empy/mythic/relic weapons to do the testing for them. Unless they're a console player, but in that case there are still plenty of holders who play on pc and can test shit in their place.

I don't know.

Knowledge for knowledge's sake. Plus, It helps more than "people who already have them", Because it could influence Mr.Smith into getting XX Relic over XX Relic because it was discovered XX Relic has XX Effect at 99, and so forth.

Knowledge of Relic hidden effects helps more than just people who are directly in possession of the item, it helps those looking to get the item and bothering to read up on their investments!

For instance, 95 Mandau and many other relics get an increase to their ODD/OTD proc, Which might influence a person to go for Mandau over Thwast. So forth.

Yes i only read the first sentence :D

[Nynja]

More people = More chance to break additions added... that's not a bad thing. That's the whole point of the server.

Letting everyone be able to take pics to post on ffxiah going "hi I have all relics lulz" is exactly what the test server is for though...

[Greatguardian]

There aren't any.


http://images.bluegartr.com/images/smilies/meme/What.png

Holy shit, lol.

Relics have always had hidden effects (Hi OTD, whose rate changed at the 95 level). Relic WS damage boost (25%) and Mythic WS damage boost (15%) were also hidden effects.

Man, I'm sure glad we didn't have people around to figure out those non-existent hidden effects.

[Unleashhell]

Relic weapon holders have just as much right to know about the weapon updates as anyone else testing any other content. Testing in any form is what the "Test Server" is for, regardless what testing that may be.

And Alhanelem.... just.... LOL...Thats all I can say.

[Alhanelem]

Holy shit, lol.

Relics have always had hidden effects (Hi OTD, whose rate changed at the 95 level). Relic WS damage boost (25%) and Mythic WS damage boost (15%) were also hidden effects.

Man, I'm sure glad we didn't have people around to figure out those non-existent hidden effects. Comment partially recinded because I didn't know the hidden effects changed. However, Everyday people who don't have relics don't need to test this. There are enough people who do have relics to do this testing. They want people to test new content, not play with toys with no real interest in contributing.

I don't know what's so funny or why you're railing me so hard. When I said "there aren't any," I meant "there aren't any new ones."

[Unleashhell]

That still makes no sense... I'm not on the test server atm but say for instance they added Relic+2 Armor for people to test and make sure they enhance (what I'm assuming is the Tier 3 merit abilities) that is on the armor. You all would be testing if those abilities worked as intended right? Why cant someone who doesnt have a mythic, relic or Empyrean test out a level 99 weapon. you never know if someone will come across something that is NOT as intended.

You shouldn't have to own a relic, mythic, or empyrean to test that they are working correctly. What if an adjustment to hidden effect on relics was somehow gimped? Or even well overpowered? Or maybe even it the weapon skill doesn't work after one of the new abilities they add from relic+2? Look what happened with Divine Emblem. Until its tested on the test server you wont know until the next update. You should be able to test all aspects.

[Nynja]

Comment partially recinded because I didn't know the hidden effects changed.

Implying that you didnt know the hidden effects changed means that you were aware of any hidden effects to begin with. So why are you saying "no, there were no hidden effects, nope none"?

[Alhanelem]

that you were aware of any hidden effects to begin with.I am fully aware of the hidden effects.I meant there aren't any NEW ones, meant that there is nothing to test. Which is not accurate given what was said, but that was my meaning at the time. Take a look at the statement Iquoted where I said that (this is a quote I responded to, it's not a quote of myself):


'Because the hidden effects and upgrades to those weapons are new content ^^? The reason I said it like I did is because it's not new content. Those hidden effects always existed, and SE hasn't said or suggested that there will be new hidden effects- which only ended up being half true, because the existing hidden effects were increased.

I know all the relic weapons have a hidden occasionally deals more damage (it's not triple on all, someare 2.5 x) and that the weapon skills have aftermath-like effects. That's nothing new to me.

My question still stands- who other than people who already hold or are about to hold a relic needs to test this? And said relic holders obviously don't need to have relics given to them to test with. I just think making the test server more like a playground might attract people to it, but for the wrong reasons.

[Kitkat]

Well, saying it isn't new content is technically wrong. It is updated content on existing weapons. These weapons have gone through bonus enhancements via lvl 90 and 95 in hidden respects. Some feel these still aren't up to par and would like the chance to test it before it goes live to give feedback on that aspect of the content.

Personally I would rather see an option that would let current relic holders test the content by simply trading their weapon to the GM moogle and obtaining the end result rather than having to do the trail (since it is sounding like it won't be a "quick and done" thing this time). This way feed-back can be mentioned that might sway the final results a little more.

Others have good points to this too. It has happened before where something done under certain circumstances broke something else. It isn't outlandish that added "enhances X effect" might change or even break certain mechanics or that new merit adjustments might have an unexpected effect coupled with add effects. Unlikely, but not impossible.

[SNK]

What hidden effects? there aren't any.

There aren't any.

Ok for awhile you've been pretty smart about a lot of stuff you posted but you can't be serious with this comment.

[Atomic_Skull]

I don't know.

Knowledge for knowledge's sake. Plus, It helps more than "people who already have them", Because it could influence Mr.Smith into getting XX Relic over XX Relic because it was discovered XX Relic has XX Effect at 99, and so forth.

Knowledge of Relic hidden effects helps more than just people who are directly in possession of the item, it helps those looking to get the item and bothering to read up on their investments!

For instance, 95 Mandau and many other relics get an increase to their ODD/OTD proc, Which might influence a person to go for Mandau over Thwast. So forth.

Perhaps you're not clear on this but the test server is for bug testing not trying out which gear setup is best.




Personally I would rather see an option that would let current relic holders test the content by simply trading their weapon to the GM moogle and obtaining the end result rather than having to do the trail (since it is sounding like it won't be a "quick and done" thing this time).

Why not just have the GM Moogle dispense the trial items for 95->99? That way they could test the upgrade trial and the resulting weapon.

[Alhanelem]

Ok for awhile you've been pretty smart about a lot of stuff you posted but you can't be serious with this comment.
It is misinterpretation/wording it badly.

[Karbuncle]

Perhaps you're not clear on this but the test server is for bug testing not trying out which gear setup is best.

A Ribbon got MND+10 one update, So isn't it slightly possible Empyrean weapons could be botched in a way that they don't get their full stat bonus? Or Relics Aftermath not working properly? Or Aftermath duration not working properly with TP%?

For instance, Relic weapons stats are working in the offhand, Which may be a mistake/Bug, as they haven't until. Its equally possible its a new feature, But we wouldn't of known this without relic holders telling us.

Without those weapons in the hands of the right people, This kind of information can easily be overlooked.

For the record, Nowhere did i mention using Relics as a means to determine best armor Sets, what i said was, and forgive me for paraphrasing, "To test if Relic Weapons have new hidden effects, or new bonuses". My reasoning was two fold. 1) Learning what new upgrades we get for Relics and 2) Knowledge for future relic holders.

I while i won't pretend Bug testing is what i had in mind in my initial reasoning. Test server is suppose to be there for us to crash-test new content and scout for possible bugs before the release. Not every bug is related to new content.

Avatars/Pets Getting Sambas - Not Related to the Update that happened then.
Ribbon with +10 MND - What?
There are literally hundreds of examples of shit getting broken that no way relates to the content of an Update. How can we properly test each and every contingencies without the proper tools?

my main Point being, Relics/Emp/Mythics could also break in some way, and everyone being able to access them = More chance of catching these bugs. So while not part of my initial reasoning, Is still a valid point that even you should be able to agree with.

Relics and What have you are just as susceptible to bugs as the rest of the game, and being able to those weapons in the proper hands just helps find them that much quicker if they exist.

[Alhanelem]

my main Point being, Relics/Emp/Mythics could also break in some wayMy main point - which you seem to be missing/ignoring - being that there are plenty of relic holders who can check this, we don't need the server to give them out for free to everyone to play with.

If you need any old weapon for a job you don't normally play, the moogle already gives out walk of echoes +2 weapons, which have no special attributes other than a weapon skill. That should be more than sufficient to test whatever you need to test.

[FrankReynolds]

They should give them out for testing just like any other weapon / gear / item in the game. They are no different than any other item in the game in regards to need for testing and chances of botched programming.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Having them available on the test server would rock. I could then see for myself which is better for what job, etc, and then be able to make an informed decision as to which one i'd make for said job(s).

Also, it might entice people to grind out a super weapon that they might have not wanted to do orginally and therefore keep them playing longer.

[Unleashhell]

My main point - which you seem to be missing/ignoring - being that there are plenty of relic holders who can check this, we don't need the server to give them out for free to everyone to play with.

If you need any old weapon for a job you don't normally play, the moogle already gives out walk of echoes +2 weapons, which have no special attributes other than a weapon skill. That should be more than sufficient to test whatever you need to test.

So tell me, why does the moggle give out WoE weapons? Whats the point? If someone doesn't have an empyrean weapon normally why would they need the WoE weapon? Oh thats right, for testing... But why give players mythics and relics, they don't need testing I guess.

[Alhanelem]

So tell me, why does the moggle give out WoE weapons?Because these are really basic weapons (beyond the weapon skill) and there is basically no economy on the test server. If you need a weapon for a job you don't normally play, what are you supposed to use? They're not being given to you because THEY need testing (they don't, there are no new trials for them that I know of, and thus no new features that I'm aware of), they're giving them to you so you can test other things. These weapons suit all testing purposes just fine. You don't need a relic. You don't need a mythic. You don't need an empyrean. You just need a weapon.

Again, why do you need to "test" these weapons if you don't have one yourself? The very people who go after these weapons are mostly the people most able to conduct proper testing anyway. Just grab one of the weapons available to you and use that.

[FrankReynolds]

I need to test them to see if they are worth the 1500 plates. Why do you care? Why do you need me to not test them?

[Karbuncle]

My main point - which you seem to be missing/ignoring - being that there are plenty of relic holders who can check this, we don't need the server to give them out for free to everyone to play with.

Name 1 Relic holder that owns a Claustrum that you know personally visits forums and the Test Server frequently. Heck, Name 1 Person with each Mythic that you know visits forums and frequently posts in regards to them and posts on these forums/Plays the test server.

I'm aware this is impossible for you to do. Because its to make a point. Yes, We may be able to easily get information on Mandau, Amano, Etc, But the rarer relics, and Rarer Mythics will be harder to get information on.

Yes, There are some relic holders with some relics, and same for mythics. But not all of them.

And what Frank said. :D Though I don't know why I'm trying to argue.

[Raksha]

In the last census wasn't it revealed that across all servers no one had created the BST mythic? And only one person had created the SCH mythic?

I'm sure that one guy/gal, who I notice now probably stopped playing because his highest lvl jobs are still lvl 90, is going to get back to us on whether or not the SCH mythic is working as intended.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Someone made Aymur shortly after the Census iirc. I was actually unaware someone actually went through the trouble of making Sch mythic tbh, I glazed right past that part of the census.

[Alhanelem]

Name 1 Relic holder that owns a Claustrum that you know personally visits forums and the Test Server frequently. Heck, Name 1 Person with each Mythic that you know visits forums and frequently posts in regards to them and posts on these forums/Plays the test server.if nobody has a given weapon, then there's no reason to test it because the information doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not going to increase the popularity of those unpopular weapons, to be sure. Thus, I don't need to name anyone because whether I can or cant doesn't affect the point. Since I don't have a list of players that visit the test server to compare against the list of known relic holders, I can't do so, whether or not they actually do visit the test server. That doesn't mean nobody does.

Just admit it, your personal interest and the interest of most people in being given a relic on the test server has nothing to do with scientific testing- it's to play with a toy they'll never be able to obtain in the normal game.


In the last census wasn't it revealed that across all servers no one had created the BST mythic? And only one person had created the SCH mythic?If i'm not mistaken, someone did complete the mythic axe after the date of the census data.


I need to test them to see if they are worth the 1500 plates.Why would you need to? You have the stats on BGwiki, and people knew the stats on them before the servers even came back up after the update. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of the empyreans having any hidden effects. Thus there aren't any to test. The only changes are the damage, and the stat+ of the particular weapon. You should be able to math it out whether it's worth 1500 plates to you (I'll wager it's not)

[Karbuncle]

if nobody has a given weapon, then there's no reason to test it because the information doesn't benefit an1yone

Because information has never helped people in terms of deciding. And i didn't ask if anyone had it, I Asked you to name someone with the weapon that frequents the Tests servers and these forums that could report that bug. Theres quite a few people with Claustrum, But i couldn't name you one i see post on forums.


Why would you need to? You have the stats on BGwiki, and people knew the stats on them before the servers even came back up after the update.

To test hidden effects?


Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of the empyreans having any hidden effects. Thus there aren't any to test.

You're right, Its impossible they'll add new Effects... Like 90 Relics getting hidden 25% boost to WS Damage? or 90 Mythics getting a hidden ~15% Boost to WS Damage.

Or the Hidden increase of ODD/ODT from Relics from the 95 versions.

We wouldn't know if Empyreans had no hidden effects until its tested. While, Admittidely Empyreans are far less likely to need hidden effect testing, They could always toss a curve ball.

Also, the 95 Harp had the exact same visible stats, But it actually increased Song Duration even further, Which would have been 100% Unknown unless someone had the 95 harpe and tested it, Because the difference was not visibly shown.

Maybe I'm just too generous, but theres absolutely no way you can believe the crap you're saying right now.

[Alhanelem]

To test hidden effects?You don't need to test hidden effects if you don't have the relic weapon. The information is of no use to you. Empyreans do not have hidden effects to my knowledge, and I don't think Mythics do either but I don't know abotut those.


Maybe I'm just too generous, but theres absolutely no way you can believe the crap you're saying right now. I do believe it, because it's not crap. If you don't have a relic weapon, you don't need to test a relic weapon on the test server. There is no true motivation for giving them other than to give people toys to play with. People don't want to test them, they want to have fun with them. That's not what the test server is for. It's not necessary, not important, and not part of what the current test session is intended for.

You don't NEED relic weapons for testing unless you happen to own one anyway, no ifs, ands or buts.


Which would have been 100% Unknown unless someone had the 95 harpe and tested it,This knowledge would have little value if nobody had the harp in the first place.

[Byrth]

It would be nice if, for instance, I knew what "Augments Steps IV" did before I dropped 30k Alexandrite onto an NPC. The test server is the perfect way to let people figure stuff like that out. You're just being stubborn.

[Alhanelem]

You're right, I'm being stubborn, because relic weapons are not necessary for testing. They're not what the testing is about and not what SE wants you to focus on. They're already spending extra dev time to provide us with other more useful testing functions. You want them to take even more so you can play with relic weapons?

Focus on the task at hand, testing the new content and finding bugs. You're missing the spirit and point of the test server. At this point, everyone's stance is quite clear, so there's likely no reason to continue beyond this point.

[SNK]

You're right, I'm being stubborn, because relic weapons are not necessary for testing.

Who says that they shouldn't be tested as well? I mean I know I'm not the only one who remembers after an update when Apoc's aftermath got borked and it took close to a month if I recall for SE to even realize or deal with it. This game is a load of sphagetti code and an update to one thing can end up breaking something else.


Then again I'm replying to the guy who flat out said there weren't any hidden effects.

[Alhanelem]

Then again I'm replying to the guy who flat out said there weren't any hidden effects. That there weren't any NEW hidden effects, not that there weren't any I know the relic weapons have hidden effects. What I didn't know is that some of those effects changed with the magian trials.. That doesn't mean that it's suddenly critically important that everyone and their mother be issued relic weapons on the test server.


This game is a load of sphagetti code and an update to one thing can end up breaking something else.Yiou're absolutely right- all the more reason not to touch this stuff. Even a message box listing the relic weapons might some how (*#&$ them up.

Now it's time to move on. I've made my opinion clear as have you.

[Kitkat]

When I look through this debate all I see is this in TL;DR mode:

People: I have an apple, but I want that orange too.

Alhanelem: Make due with the apple, better yet make some apple juice.

People: I want some oranges cause orange juice is better.

Alhanelem: Too bad, the oranges aren't for you. Make do with the apple.

People: I want the oranges, they might be sweeter or have that sour bite to them. I'd like to know for myself.

Alhanelem: Why not just ask the people who have the oranges already?

People: Because their experiences with it is different, they have had them for a while. I might do something with the oranges they never thought about.

Alhanelem: I'm sure they can figure it out for themselves, it isn't necessary to give you the oranges just for that.
/TL;DR mode

Alhanelem is just being the mean parent not wanting to let the children play. The ideal that a "relic is a privilege and not a right" is a rather lucid debate topic when it comes to testing. They aren't getting to keep the weapon, the weapon will be going through further changes soon, and there are going to be a lot of additions to what jobs can do that they couldn't before. A small sample size is never an accurate way to test anything.

Currently there is quite a bit of content that can't be fully tested due to low population on the test server. Offering the ability to use a relic/emp/mythic might help this. Using the "they are going to offer invincibility soon too" is counter productive being as this isn't going to be an option when the content goes live. The weapons will still exist when the content is live, and I have a feeling it won't be any less distributed through all worlds as it would end up being on the test server. Mainly due to limited space on test server as is.

The test server already is a play ground by offering a good deal of the "better" gear via GM moogle. I am not seeing a big issue in it being more of a play ground if it is incentive to bring more to the test server so that group-based testing of the new content being added (WOE, VWNM, and in time "The Last Stand") so that it can be tested as it will be completed after going live; in a group based setting rather than a few using the invincibility option that SE mentioned will be added later.

I don't know about you, but there is a fair bit on the test server that is there for the purpose of testing but can't be due to the low population. If it would give me the opportunity to partake in some of the newer content to fully test in various angles then I can't really argue to not allowing it. Eventually it'll be part of the test content anyway.

[SNK]

Yiou're absolutely right- all the more reason not to touch this stuff. Even a message box listing the relic weapons might some how (*#&$ them up.

No, You're not quite getting the spahgetti code point. Adjusting one thing which could have literally nothing to do with a relic has before in a nutshell, messed up a relic. Rememeber that last update where Cure spells got borked and people could kill undead for 50k a shot with just a Cure I?

They obviously didn't change anything about the spell Cure itself but somehow something they added in that patch borked it and of course we had an emergency maintence to fix it.

The game is in my eyes a programmer's nightmare when you're checking and double-checking code to make sure what you add doesn't effect something previous installed into the game. The DeV team isn't perfect and time and again stuff gets by that they miss. We understand that and respect the work that they've put into the game.

However the point stands that relics shouldn't be above testing because they are a part of the game as well.

[Alhanelem]

Alhanelem is just being the mean parent not wanting to let the children play.No, i'm being the level-headed, productive person who wants a test server to accomplish it's purpose- to test the content the devs want us to test. You are analogizing apples and oranges, but it's more like using the pickup truck vs asking for the keys to the Ferrari. You don't need the Ferrari to get the job done.

[Kitkat]

No, i'm being the level-headed, productive person who wants a test server to accomplish it's purpose- to test the content the devs want us to test. You are analogizing apples and oranges, but it's more like using the pickup truck vs asking for the keys to the Ferrari. You don't need the Ferrari to get the job done.

You aren't really being level headed at all since you are focusing on one primary point actually. A level headed individual takes a unilateral and unbiased approach to come to a distinct conclusion. Your primary points actually dictate you have a very one sided view on the subject and is shown by how eagerly you dismiss apposing views on it.

Your analogy is worse than mine actually. Trucks serve far different purposes from a Ferrari. If you wanted to use vehicles to express an analogy of relic/myth/emps it would be more akin to a base model of a car to the same model with all the bells and whistles, the only difference being that emp/myth/relics are just different makes (chevy/ford/dodge). Each offering something different, bells and whistles wise, to accommodate being useful over one another. Anyway, moving away from the analogies for now.

The test server is in essence a big play ground with a plethora of toys at an individuals grasp. Relic/emp/mythic weapons would be no more different than the fact SE is planning to give invincibility for testing purpose later on in the terms of "play things." The biggest functional difference between this being that on Live servers (non-test servers) the weapons will still exist where as the invincibility won't. Allowing people the toys to play with doesn't necessarily negate their ability to test the actual content of the game either.

I have both a relic (mandau) and an emp (almace) but you know what? They don't really see much use on the test server because there isn't enough like minded people on the server at a given time to fully test the content being added when it comes to WoE or VWNM. The purpose of a test server is for an individual to test it anyway, and everyway, possible to be sure that one minor thing doesn't break an intended outcome of the content. You've also constantly dismissed the fact that the weapons are undergoing constant increases in their functions, from base damage, to additional stats, to additional hidden effects. Dat mining sources show that there is possibly a very big change coming to relic/mythic/emps in what is being called "afterglow/aftercircle." Depending on how this effect works, it could possibly be unbalancing in content. In most cases this never gets the chance to be tested by those with the weapons because...well they need help or high quantities of an item to upgrade it on the test server. There is no simple way to upgrade it to the next stage on the test server, thus "just let the holders of the weapons find out for you" becomes a moot point.

The test server was made to test things, not limit an individual or tell them to use what they have. If this were the case, there wouldn't be moogles to give you better than what you have already (AF3+2, WoE, Rare/EX weapons, Salvage gear, Abjuration+1 gear, etc). Once again, the weapons themselves are going under changes from 95-99, thus are part of the test content. The weapons will not give anymore of an advantage to an individual than the proposed invincibility they plan to add to the test server. The opportunity to have a higher population for group related testing outweighs any advantages the weapons may give since it is better than not having the population to test content with at all. The only aspect of your debate I see is "They are toys and unnecessary" and that is true, but everything the GM moogle offers can be given the same point making your entire objection to allowing an individual to have access to the weapons moot on this basis alone.

[Atomic_Skull]

wall-o-text

Well I didn't read most of that because I couldn't be bothered to read the huge wall of text but if the GM Moogle starts handing out relics and emps the test server will be flooded with people who are not interested in testing.

Next time try being more concise and to the point instead of trying to bury people under a mountain of words.

[Kitkat]

Well I didn't read most of that because I couldn't be bothered to read the huge wall of text but if the GM Moogle starts handing out relics and emps the test server will be flooded with people who are not interested in testing.

Next time try being more concise and to the point instead of trying to bury people under a mountain of words.

Rather naive response considering there is hardly ever more than 20 on the test server as is. If there were upwards of a couple hundred on the test server then your point would be valid, but this isn't the case. Instead of people actually testing the full extent of the content, we are seeing people log on a handful of times, check out some of the new spells/abilites, and check some npc then log off and share what little they were able to learn on their own with the community. A vast amount of the information ends up coming from dat mining, and rarely do enough pool together to test the group related content because there are too few on actually interested in doing so.

Low data means inaccurate conclusions and greater possiblity for error. A larger population would lower the gap of the errors in conclusions reached during testing thus lead to a lower likely hood of emergency maintenance after an update. The game is reaching over a decade old, the novelty of end-line weapons would be short lived. The person would be more likely to stay for further testing opportunities knowing their chances of getting a group for the activity is higher rather than lower.

Seriously, you guys need to get a better hook-line than "It'll be flooded" since that isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the current constant population on the test servers. Obviously, if I log on during various times through the day and the constant average is ~17, there obviously isn't a problem with over population. More so the opposite:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5144/tsp.png

[FrankReynolds]

Rather naive response considering there is hardly ever more than 20 on the test server as is. If there were upwards of a couple hundred on the test server then your point would be valid, but this isn't the case. Instead of people actually testing the full extent of the content, we are seeing people log on a handful of times, check out some of the new spells/abilites, and check some npc then log off and share what little they were able to learn on their own with the community. A vast amount of the information ends up coming from dat mining, and rarely do enough pool together to test the group related content because there are too few on actually interested in doing so.

Low data means inaccurate conclusions and greater possiblity for error. A larger population would lower the gap of the errors in conclusions reached during testing thus lead to a lower likely hood of emergency maintenance after an update. The game is reaching over a decade old, the novelty of end-line weapons would be short lived. The person would be more likely to stay for further testing opportunities knowing their chances of getting a group for the activity is higher rather than lower.

Seriously, you guys need to get a better hook-line than "It'll be flooded" since that isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the current constant population on the test servers. Obviously, if I log on during various times through the day and the constant average is ~17, there obviously isn't a problem with over population. More so the opposite:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5144/tsp.png

NOWAI! if you give them relics, the server will suddenly have 10,000 players all log on at once and blow up the world. Then they will all quit because they feel like having the relic for 10 seconds before the world exploded was all they needed. The game will be ruined. Plus.... they don't need to test relics etc. Everyone already has a 99 relic / mythic / empyrian and they are out testing them now for your enjoyment... ohh wait....

[Raksha]

If i'm not mistaken, someone did complete the mythic axe after the date of the census data.


Way to miss the point.

[SNK]

Well I didn't read most of that because I couldn't be bothered to read the huge wall of text but if the GM Moogle starts handing out relics and emps the test server will be flooded with people who are not interested in testing.

Next time try being more concise and to the point instead of trying to bury people under a mountain of words.'

Wait... what?

[Alhanelem]

Your analogy is worse than mine actually. Trucks serve far different purposes from a Ferrari.That's the whole point. The truck is used for getting work done, while the Ferrari is an expensive toy. Playing with the expensive toy isn't going to help the overall goal of the test server any more than the truck, which gets the job done right without needing the glitter and glamour. The trucks are also more widely available than the Ferraris.


They don't really see much use on the test server because there isn't enough like minded people on the server at a given time to fully test the content being added when it comes to WoE or VWNM.Why do you need a bunch of "like minded people" and fight the listed fights in order to test for new/changed hidden effects on relic weapons? Can't you do that on any monster? If you have the weapons you say you have, you shouldn't have any trouble testing them out. On that note, if you made a point of asking for assistance, I'm sure I or anyone else here would be happy to lend you a hand. Then on top of that, they'll be introducing an invincibility command so you don't have to worry about dying while you test the crap out of whatever you need to test. I did the new final flux with like 2 other people. Obviously we couldn't win it, but we were still able to test things out. All you have to do is plan ahead a little.


Next time try being more concise and to the point instead of trying to bury people under a mountain of words. No offense Atomic, but if you can't be bothered to read a "wall of text," then you shouldn't bother yourself with commenting on it. Not every point can be expressed in one or two lines of text.

[Kitkat]

That's the whole point. The truck is used for getting work done, while the Ferrari is an expensive toy. Playing with the expensive toy isn't going to help the overall goal of the test server any more than the truck, which gets the job done right without needing the glitter and glamour. The trucks are also more widely available than the Ferraris.

Thing is, these weapons are just the trucks with bells and whistles. There is only a mild difference in performance between a base weapon user and a relic weapon user. Your analogy dictates that an individual has been given the keys to a vehicle that has no real utility/functionality and is just an expensive toy. That is all a Ferrari is..an expensive toy with no utility/function other than to look good. You can't even have a Ferrari without an extensive background check because they are so "rare and exotic." Emps are widely available, Relics are leaps and bounds easier to achieve than they were, and mythics aren't seen useful enough because so few have them there isn't conclusive data on several of them. Thus the analogy of relic and emp: they are just decked out trucks (leather seats with butt warmers, DVD players for the little brats, cruise control, satelite radio, slightly larger engine block displacement, etc(Stronger WS, marginally higher DPS, aftermath, hidden effects)), and mythics are Hummers (looks neat, but doesn't get good enough gas mileage/utility to make it practical(lower dps, very narrow utility)).



Why do you need a bunch of "like minded people" and fight the listed fights in order to test for new/changed hidden effects on relic weapons? Can't you do that on any monster?

Once again, you are looking at the narrow view of just the availability of the weapon. I'm speaking in terms of server population, which is lacking. Like minded individuals is a term used when speaking in the sense of testing all content, not just what I'm able to because there is only a handful of people available to. Being as you and a few others on that side of the fence keep bringing up "the server will be flooded" as points of rebuttal I have responded to this. I would rather the server be "flooded" than have less than an alliance worth of people on, half of which are usually AFK and the other half testing solo content. Not to mention that allowing access to these weapons is no different than allowing access to other options already instated on the test server (Salvage gear, Abj gear, Emp+2 armor, various Rare/Ex items), something you still over look also. All of this gear can also be referred to as "toys" but the are there for the population to use aren't they?


If you have the weapons you say you have, you shouldn't have any trouble testing them out.

I do (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17134-Relic-observation....) have them.... (http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Kaliyah)(Link to feedback posted here and my ffxiah profile) Yet you failed to once again see the point I already brought up: Test server does not allow the holders of these weapons to simply trade them in for the next upgrade. Just like live servers we must still complete the trials associated with the next weapon tier. Each requires specific requirements to be met that at the test servers current population is typically not possible to fulfill, thus your retort is inaccurate. Just because I have the weapons, does not mean I am able to complete the new trials before the content goes live to ensure the adjustments made aren't unbalanced/broken. Even with a group of people, some of these trials can't be completed before the content goes live. In conclusion: How can I, a weapon holder, test changes that can't be acquired quickly enough to adequately test the new features? This is why I have also brought up the idea that I would like to see SE add the option so we could trade to the GM moogle our current weapons to obtain the final version.



On that note, if you made a point of asking for assistance, I'm sure I or anyone else here would be happy to lend you a hand. Then on top of that, they'll be introducing an invincibility command so you don't have to worry about dying while you test the crap out of whatever you need to test. I did the new final flux with like 2 other people. Obviously we couldn't win it, but we were still able to test things out. All you have to do is plan ahead a little.

Which proves another point I also made, that the lack of population leads to inconclusive testing since the content can't be completed with less than 6-36 people (taking in cap of WoE battle fields and cap of HKC BCNM fields). Inconclusive test leads to the content not being fully or accurately tested until it goes live on the main servers which leads to those oh-so-fun emergency maintenance to fix it.

Further expanding on your toss out of "invincibility command" this should only be a back up for groups to use, not a shield to hide behind while testing. This command can become over used leading to the conclusion that content difficulty is "ok" when it possibly isn't. This wouldn't be known because people would rather abuse the command rather than test the content, both the good and the bad of it. I would much rather see a full group tackle the content to get appropriate data than toss minimal amounts of people at it falling back on command that isn't available during normal play.

You're also assuming that I haven't tried using other resources to make groups. I have, but like you I ran into the problem of A.) not enough to make a well structured group which leads to B.) inability to complete the content as it was intended for more than the small group I'm with and concludes with C.) inconclusive test data to state if the content is reasonable, unbalanced, or breaks under certain conditions during battle.

[FrankReynolds]

That's the whole point. The truck is used for getting work done, while the Ferrari is an expensive toy. Playing with the expensive toy isn't going to help the overall goal of the test server any more than the truck, which gets the job done right without needing the glitter and glamour. The trucks are also more widely available than the Ferraris.

Why do you need a bunch of "like minded people" and fight the listed fights in order to test for new/changed hidden effects on relic weapons? Can't you do that on any monster? If you have the weapons you say you have, you shouldn't have any trouble testing them out. On that note, if you made a point of asking for assistance, I'm sure I or anyone else here would be happy to lend you a hand. Then on top of that, they'll be introducing an invincibility command so you don't have to worry about dying while you test the crap out of whatever you need to test. I did the new final flux with like 2 other people. Obviously we couldn't win it, but we were still able to test things out. All you have to do is plan ahead a little.

No offense Atomic, but if you can't be bothered to read a "wall of text," then you shouldn't bother yourself with commenting on it. Not every point can be expressed in one or two lines of text.

Funny story. Ferrari tests all their cars and prototypes. They blow the friggin doors off your truck. They don't build crap and then wait for people to buy it to see if it works (this is how almost every product ever sold works).

Analogies aside. I Want to know if My kannagi has a major glitch that's going to break it when I upgrade. I don't want to wait 6 months to get the plates together, and another 6 for SE to fix it. I want to test / find the problem now. I'm willing to let the 20 people that use the test server play with it, if it means fixing it now instead of later.

[Unleashhell]

No, i'm being the level-headed, productive person who wants a test server to accomplish it's purpose- to test the content the devs want us to test. You are analogizing apples and oranges, but it's more like using the pickup truck vs asking for the keys to the Ferrari. You don't need the Ferrari to get the job done.

Yeah but how you gonna bring home that new frig on the roof of a Ferrari? Kidding!!!

[Theytak]

The problem that everyone advocating adding free relics/mythics/empies to the test server are missing, and that a good part of alha's point is based on, is that the test server as SE has implemented it actually works perfectly fine for testing new content prior to it going live, to find bugs/kinks, find out what drops from what, etc. The reason it works is because the people who use it primarily are all individuals who actually know how to test shit and have the patience required to do so.

The test server isn't designed to hold a massive number of people like a regular, full server. If suddenly, everyone and their mother could access free relics/mythics/empies, the limited number of slots on the test server would get hit by a rush of inane BNS melees who want to play with x/y/z relic/mythic/empy for 15 minutes and then never log on the test server again, thus wasting their slot and lowering the number of productive testers on the server, further exacerbating the only real issue the test server has, a lack of people who know what they're doing. Yea sure, adding free toys will increase the number of PEOPLE, but it won't increase the number of testers, because the people who have the patience to test and the competency to understand what they're testing are few and far between in the playerbase.

Basically, the logic here isn't that what you guys want is necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, but rather the repercussions it will bring. Due to the fact that only about 5~10% of the playerbase will ever actually own a finished relic/mythic/empy, they are a desirable item people want to play with. Thus, while you want this:

Add Them: Those who can test but don't have the weapon on live are able to test them for possible new effects in one last update before they launch, after which they won't likely ever receive any more changes

but what you'll get is this:

Add them: number of slots on the test server ~500; ~50 are occupied by individuals who actively test new material in a proper manner, knowing what they're doing and how to do it, ~450 are occupied by Joe-Shmoe-DomaruSam who log in once or twice to play with a relic/mythic/empy and then never log in again but stay on the test server, preventing any new testers who actually know how to test from getting in.

Additionally, THE TEST SERVER DOES NOT EXIST SO THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT IF GETTING X/Y/Z RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY WEAPON IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO GET/UPGRADE. Any and all arguments attempting to use that as their purpose hold absolutely no water in this discussion, because SE made it pretty clear that the purpose of the test server is to test new content and make sure it all works as intended, and nothing more. The whole reason they made it is their extensive history of breaking all sorts of utterly unrelated crap almost every version update. If you can't find any information about the weapon you want to upgrade, find someone who has it. FFXIAH makes that pretty easy. If you can't find someone who has it, that means no one has bitten the bullet to be the "first" person to get it (I say "first" because while technically, every weapon has now been made, several of them have no information due to the one~two people who made them not being the "test shit and give people answers" type of individual). If you want to know about claustrum (first example that popped into my head after reading the thread), but can't find anyone who has one, then you're left with the option to either stop caring (which would be wise, because lolclaustrum), or to suck it up and upgrade the damn thing yourself.

If SE were to simply say: "Yes, we're adding new/changing/increasing the hidden effects of relic/mythic/empy weapons from level 95 to level 99" or "No, we are not adding new/changing/increasing the hidden effects of relic/mythic/empy weapons from level 95 to level 99" then this entire discussion would become moot. If they say they are, then they're shit they want us to test. If they say they aren't, then there's nothing to test.

[Alhanelem]

Additionally, THE TEST SERVER DOES NOT EXIST SO THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT IF GETTING X/Y/Z RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY WEAPON IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO GET/UPGRADE.

QFT


I Want to know if My kannagi has a major glitch that's going to break it when I upgrade. Then bring your Kannagi to the test server. If you don't have one, someone else will. There's no reason not to upgrade it because there "might" be a glitch. Even if there is a glitch, it will be found and fixed. It's not like your Kannagi would be permanently ruined.


Which proves another point I also made, that the lack of population leads to inconclusive testing since the content can't be completed with less than 6-36 peopleThis is why they're giving us god mode.

[FrankReynolds]

You didn't need to write nearly this much to convey what you wanted. Anyways, here goes.


The problem that everyone advocating adding free relics/mythics/empies to the test server are missing, and that a good part of alha's point is based on, is that the test server as SE has implemented it actually works perfectly fine for testing new content prior to it going live, to find bugs/kinks, find out what drops from what, etc. The reason it works is because the people who use it primarily are all individuals who actually know how to test shit and have the patience required to do so.

First of all, you have no idea what they are looking at, how well it's working for them or how well the people using it are suited for the job, because they don't report to you. All this stuff you are stating as fact is actually just how you believe it should be happening. You don't really have anything to back it other than your opinion. FYI bugs/kinks in relics/mythics/emyrians are equally important as bugs with any other item. SE doesn't ignore them just because you don't think they should care.


The test server isn't designed to hold a massive number of people like a regular, full server.

Again, your opinion stated as fact. Unless you work for SE, I call BS on you knowing anything about the design of the test server. At no point has SE stated: "We have no control over how many people log into the test server at once", so this isn't even a real issue. You just invented it.


If suddenly, everyone and their mother could access free relics/mythics/empies, the limited number of slots on the test server would get hit by a rush of inane BNS melees who want to play with x/y/z relic/mythic/empy for 15 minutes and then never log on the test server again, thus wasting their slot and lowering the number of productive testers on the server, further exacerbating the only real issue the test server has, a lack of people who know what they're doing.

Are you a professional game tester? somehow I doubt it. Matter of fact I don't believe you even know exactly what they are testing. Did it ever occur to you that they might actually want people to have fun while testing? Those "inane BNS melees" pay their monthly fees just like you, and they make up a much larger portion of the population than opinionated forum posters. SE has never said that you need to know what your doing in order to fulfill their testing needs. They have paid professional testers for that. They don't have a massive staff of "inane BNS melees", which may be why they opened a test server.

In your theory, the server is overloaded for 15 minutes, and then there is no problem again. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.


Yea sure, adding free toys will increase the number of PEOPLE, but it won't increase the number of testers, because the people who have the patience to test and the competency to understand what they're testing are few and far between in the playerbase.

So basically, you think your smarter / more important than allllll the other players, and thus should get to decide who is worthy of testing....... great.


Basically, the logic here isn't that what you guys want is necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, but rather the repercussions it will bring. Due to the fact that only about 5~10% of the playerbase will ever actually own a finished relic/mythic/empy, they are a desirable item people want to play with. Thus, while you want this:

Add Them: Those who can test but don't have the weapon on live are able to test them for possible new effects in one last update before they launch, after which they won't likely ever receive any more changes

but what you'll get is this:

Add them: number of slots on the test server ~500; ~50 are occupied by individuals who actively test new material in a proper manner, knowing what they're doing and how to do it, ~450 are occupied by Joe-Shmoe-DomaruSam who log in once or twice to play with a relic/mythic/empy and then never log in again but stay on the test server, preventing any new testers who actually know how to test from getting in.

SE can add / remove people from the test server at will. Just admit that you don't like to share your toys like a grown up.


Additionally, THE TEST SERVER DOES NOT EXIST SO THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT IF GETTING X/Y/Z RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY WEAPON IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO GET/UPGRADE. Any and all arguments attempting to use that as their purpose hold absolutely no water in this discussion, because SE made it pretty clear that the purpose of the test server is to test new content and make sure it all works as intended, and nothing more.

first you spout this ^ nonsense as if you know what they want. FYI just because they want us to test something doesn't mean they don't want us to do anything else. They could severely limit what we can do if they didn't want us to mess around on there. It's a game.


The whole reason they made it is their extensive history of breaking all sorts of utterly unrelated crap almost every version update.

But apparently relics / mythics / empyrians are so powerful that they are immune to SE coding mistakes. Is that an aftermath effect? will it be on all of them? or just some? This will require more testing to be sure its working as intended. Better put them on the test server ASAP.


If you can't find any information about the weapon you want to upgrade, find someone who has it. FFXIAH makes that pretty easy. If you can't find someone who has it, that means no one has bitten the bullet to be the "first" person to get it (I say "first" because while technically, every weapon has now been made, several of them have no information due to the one~two people who made them not being the "test shit and give people answers" type of individual). If you want to know about claustrum (first example that popped into my head after reading the thread), but can't find anyone who has one, then you're left with the option to either stop caring (which would be wise, because lolclaustrum), or to suck it up and upgrade the damn thing yourself.

Says you, but you don't make the game.


If SE were to simply say: "Yes, we're adding new/changing/increasing the hidden effects of relic/mythic/empy weapons from level 95 to level 99" or "No, we are not adding new/changing/increasing the hidden effects of relic/mythic/empy weapons from level 95 to level 99" then this entire discussion would become moot. If they say they are, then they're shit they want us to test. If they say they aren't, then there's nothing to test.

See your above statement. SE doesn't even need to change anything intentionally for it to get messed up. So whether or not they make that statement is irrelevant.

Next time try to be more concise. Giant posts like that just come off as temper tantrums.

[Alhanelem]

So basically, you think your smarter / more important than allllll the other players, and thus should get to decide who is worthy of testing....... great.That's not what he said. He's not judging anyone in particular directly. However, it is not far from the truth that most people want to see free relics on the test server so they can play with the toys they will never obtain themselves. It's not because they're good or bad players or people, it's only because what they want from the test server isn't what the test server was meant to provide.

[Theytak]

You didn't need to write nearly this much to convey what you wanted. Anyways, here goes.

While the same could be said of you, I'll point out that were I to just make a random assertion and nothing more, I'd basically just be running in, saying I DISAGREE, and leaving, without contributing to the discussion.


First of all, you have no idea what they are looking at, how well it's working for them or how well the people using it are suited for the job, because they don't report to you. All this stuff you are stating as fact is actually just how you believe it should be happening. You don't really have anything to back it other than your opinion. FYI bugs/kinks in relics/mythics/emyrians are equally important as bugs with any other item. SE doesn't ignore them just because you don't think they should care.

...what are you even talking about? That I don't know what the people I referenced are looking at? I do. I read their posts. How else would I be able to reply? Or did you mean that I don't know what the testers are looking at? I would hope I know, given that I'm one of the testers. Or given that I read the forums, specifically this very forum that is designed and used to contain the feedback from the people testing stuff on the test server. Alternatively, you could be referencing SE, and what they want the test server used for, in which case scroll down. Also, FYI, I never said bugs/kinks in relics/mythics/empies aren't important, but they aren't relevant to the players who don't possess said weapons. People who have them will have them on the test server too. I never said SE shouldn't care and I don't think that. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes you look bad.


Again, your opinion stated as fact. Unless you work for SE, I call BS on you knowing anything about the design of the test server. At no point has SE stated: "We have no control over how many people log into the test server at once", so this isn't even a real issue. You just invented it.

"The maximum number of participants and requirements will depend on each test. Once the number of participants is reached, applications will close." (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13713-Regarding-the-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Test-Server) - Quote, Foxclon

They said there's a maximum number of participants, implying that there are, indeed, a limited number of tester slots. I'm not sure how that's an opinion.


Are you a professional game tester? somehow I doubt it. Matter of fact I don't believe you even know exactly what they are testing. Did it ever occur to you that they might actually want people to have fun while testing? Those "inane BNS melees" pay their monthly fees just like you, and they make up a much larger portion of the population than opinionated forum posters. SE has never said that you need to know what your doing in order to fulfill their testing needs. They have paid professional testers for that. They don't have a massive staff of "inane BNS melees", which may be why they opened a test server.

Am I a professional game tester? No. I do know why they are testing, (again, scroll down). Do you have any idea what testing entails? And did I ever say the IBMs don't pay their monthly fee? I don't even see how that's relevant. It doesn't change the fact that they don't understand the game's mechanics nor proper methodology for testing new content for bugs. IBMs are the reason why people, for example, swore Provoke was modified by charisma. They just eyeball shit and make absolutely wild guesses and then try and pass them off as truth with no evidence. That's the kind of crap we don't need coming out of the test server.

No, SE never said you had to have half a brain to be on the test server, but if the test server were full of IBMs, you wouldn't know anything at all about the new content except crap like "this new spell looked cool", "this one does a lot of damage" (never specifying a number, or what they were fighting, etc), "Ugh, the new trials suck". That's not my opinion, btw, I'm basically summarizing 7 years experience of Version Update Day. First people to log on post random uselessly vague crap, but nothing else, until the people who knew what they were doing gave actual info.


In your theory, the server is overloaded for 15 minutes, and then there is no problem again. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

The problem isn't when they're all online, it's that because they are signed up for the test server, and that there is a maximum participant count, they prevent people who would actually actively test shit from getting in.


So basically, you think your smarter / more important than allllll the other players, and thus should get to decide who is worthy of testing....... great.

........I know five year olds smarter than half the people who play this game. Do you not read the forums or watch the shouts in jeuno? "Atma of the Sea Daughter is awesome for DD because the slow isn't a problem!" as an example. Seriously, go read the ffxiclopedia forums or the FFXIAH forums some time, there are so many people who know absolutely nothing about the game it's painful. And it's not just nerdy crap either, I've met people in PUGs that would make a high school drop out look like a savant.


first you spout this ^ nonsense as if you know what they want. FYI just because they want us to test something doesn't mean they don't want us to do anything else. They could severely limit what we can do if they didn't want us to mess around on there. It's a game.

"Furthermore, as the server will focus on still-in-development content and features" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13701-FINAL-FANTASY-Test-Server-A-Message-from-the-Producer) - Quote, Hiromichi Tanaka


"The FINAL FANTASY XI Test Server is a special server dedicated to testing various features that are in development for future version updates. " (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13713-Regarding-the-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Test-Server) - Quote, Foxclon

oh, and there's this handy forum that contains threads about exactly what they're adding to the test server for us to test. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forums/83-Testing-in-Progress)


But apparently relics / mythics / empyrians are so powerful that they are immune to SE coding mistakes. Is that an aftermath effect? will it be on all of them? or just some? This will require more testing to be sure its working as intended. Better put them on the test server ASAP.

Honestly, I can't remember any time a relic/mythic/empy has been broken aside from that one time with Apoc. I don't frequent BG though, nor do I know anyone who's had a relic for a long time, so I may just not be informed. But again, problems related to relics can be found and tested by people who have relics. They don't affect 90% of the players, so the players who aren't in that 10% shouldn't waste their time doing something that the 10% is fully capable of doing themselves. That is my opinion though.


Says you, but you don't make the game.

um... ok. I know you are but what am I? I'm well aware of the fact that I'm not a member of the Dev team, thank you captain obvious.


Next time try to be more concise. Giant posts like that just come off as temper tantrums.

Next time, try not to be such a douche, and try not to sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If you're going to wait for testing by others on most of the mage mythics, you'll be waiting for a very long time.

[Kitkat]

Find it interesting both of you latch to the singular point of "relic/mythic/emp" as being the only reason for adding them. It is only a secondary objective behind an attempt to even get more of a population on the test server to begin with. Instead you both would rather latch to this one point and ride it like it is a substantial argument when it isn't.

You think people are going to jump on the server to play with a weapon for 15 min then never log on again. Guess what, this already happens. Well over 100, but less than 150 are on the test server after new content is added, but they log on and test only the stuff related to jobs they care about and never log on again. Then out of a 100~150 only 20-25 actually continue to log on sparingly to further test beyond just the jobs they care about. Thing is, in an active online presence these people only tend to be on 10-15 at a time with 5-7 of them AFK and the others testing solo things.


If you can't find any information about the weapon you want to upgrade, find someone who has it. FFXIAH makes that pretty easy. If you can't find someone who has it, that means no one has bitten the bullet to be the "first" person to get it (I say "first" because while technically, every weapon has now been made, several of them have no information due to the one~two people who made them not being the "test shit and give people answers" type of individual). If you want to know about claustrum (first example that popped into my head after reading the thread), but can't find anyone who has one, then you're left with the option to either stop caring (which would be wise, because lolclaustrum), or to suck it up and upgrade the damn thing yourself.

Again.....for the fourth time, your point about a weapon on the test server is based on pre-existing changes already live on all servers. The reasoning behind adding the weapons is about updated content that is going to be added to the weapons. This has been found/verified through dat mining both by NA and JP communities, to have an effect called "afterglow" that no one knows anything about because it is new. This concept actually goes hand in hand with what you posted in relation to

"Furthermore, as the server will focus on still-in-development content and features" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13701-FINAL-FANTASY-Test-Server-A-Message-from-the-Producer) - Quote, Hiromichi Tanaka


"The FINAL FANTASY XI Test Server is a special server dedicated to testing various features that are in development for future version updates. " (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13713-Regarding-the-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Test-Server) - Quote, Foxclon

oh, and there's this handy forum that contains threads about exactly what they're adding to the test server for us to test. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forums/83-Testing-in-Progress)

It is updated content. Added to the test server, before going live, thus part of the "under development" testing phase regardless to how you conceive it otherwise. If it is added to the test server prior to going live then SE is putting it there for further testing. The true problem is the ability to test it. I'd also like to point out that there have been various additions to the test server over the time it has been out that was never announced, and because we weren't specifically told to test it...it later resulted in fixes or emergency maintenance.

And since you like quoting verbatim lets bring this up too:
Source (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13712-For-players-who-have-submitted-applications-to-the-test-server)

If it is determined that you have no intention of participating in the test server, your participation privileges will be revoked.



Then bring your Kannagi to the test server. If you don't have one, someone else will. There's no reason not to upgrade it because there "might" be a glitch. Even if there is a glitch, it will be found and fixed. It's not like your Kannagi would be permanently ruined.

Further expanding on your "ask someone who knows" ideal, the test server reacts the same way as live servers currently in reference to trials to upgrade. Some of these trials require more than one person to complete and several days to weeks worth of work. Test server doesn't support the population to do that thus your point about "Asking someone who has it already" is made null and void by the fact it can't be done.


This is why they're giving us god mode.

Test servers new battle content:
Player activates god mode and solos new VWNM or similar battles instances.
Player takes 0 damage and is immune to effects.
NM uses unknown TP moves.
Player takes no damage or receives no ill effects.

Content goes live and god mode is gone
People complain about NM hitting far harder than it should.
Further complaints arise due to how proc system works, but current VWNM setups run into issues completing content because of NM behavior being above normal Difficulty.
Additional complaints arise due to certain battle conditions breaking expected outcomes that weren't tested because test server god mode = easy mode = lazy mode.

So, your "god mode" answer to low population has just as many problems compared to SE just allowing access to relic/mythic/emp weapons. It would be wiser to stimulate a population in oder to test the content as it is meant to function, rather than catering to low population by throwing out god mode, since it would allow the content to be tested accurately.

By both of your argument basis SE shouldn't offer ANYTHING via the GM moogle but expendable items that BST, rng, or any nin or similar dependent job needs to function. All other items should be abolished because it isn't part of the test content and people should just "make due with what they have."

Then again this creates problems for the synergist who are, or may, test if higher synergy skill results in better augments than are currently known so then you piss them off by limiting their ability to test changes in this aspect.

Honestly, I'm failing to see anything in your argument that has any substantial basis, as to why this shouldn't be allowed, because almost every point you try to make either already happens or would benifit the test server as it would increase overall test data for all content rather than what people are able to do with a low population currently.

[FrankReynolds]

While the same could be said of you, I'll point out that were I to just make a random assertion and nothing more, I'd basically just be running in, saying I DISAGREE, and leaving, without contributing to the discussion.

that would have been better than spamming a whole page with nonsense.



...what are you even talking about? That I don't know what the people I referenced are looking at? I do. I read their posts. How else would I be able to reply? Or did you mean that I don't know what the testers are looking at? I would hope I know, given that I'm one of the testers. Or given that I read the forums, specifically this very forum that is designed and used to contain the feedback from the people testing stuff on the test server. Alternatively, you could be referencing SE, and what they want the test server used for, in which case scroll down. Also, FYI, I never said bugs/kinks in relics/mythics/empies aren't important, but they aren't relevant to the players who don't possess said weapons. People who have them will have them on the test server too. I never said SE shouldn't care and I don't think that. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes you look bad.

Yes I'm talking about SE. You don't know anymore about what they are looking at than anyone else posting here. You just think you do. They could easily cut everything that has not been changed out of the test server, and only allow people to use very specific gear / functions on the test server. They don't. Go figure. And yes, by saying that SE shouldn't give people the weapons to test, you are implying that they don't care about what changes have been made to them. Not everyone has an empyrian etc. Even less care to test them. Of those that do test them, Most will not post on this forum. Do the math. More weapons = more testing. I didn't put words in your mouth. You are doing that quite well.


"The maximum number of participants and requirements will depend on each test. Once the number of participants is reached, applications will close." (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13713-Regarding-the-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Test-Server) - Quote, Foxclon

They said there's a maximum number of participants, implying that there are, indeed, a limited number of tester slots. I'm not sure how that's an opinion.

Notice that at no point did foxclon say: "and we will not be able to add more ever, or remove testers who are not logging in, so you guys better be trained professionals."

Thats because they can, and they will.


Am I a professional game tester? No. I do know why they are testing, (again, scroll down). Do you have any idea what testing entails? And did I ever say the IBMs don't pay their monthly fee? I don't even see how that's relevant. It doesn't change the fact that they don't understand the game's mechanics nor proper methodology for testing new content for bugs. IBMs are the reason why people, for example, swore Provoke was modified by charisma. They just eyeball shit and make absolutely wild guesses and then try and pass them off as truth with no evidence. That's the kind of crap we don't need coming out of the test server.

No, SE never said you had to have half a brain to be on the test server, but if the test server were full of IBMs, you wouldn't know anything at all about the new content except crap like "this new spell looked cool", "this one does a lot of damage" (never specifying a number, or what they were fighting, etc), "Ugh, the new trials suck". That's not my opinion, btw, I'm basically summarizing 7 years experience of Version Update Day. First people to log on post random uselessly vague crap, but nothing else, until the people who knew what they were doing gave actual info.

Go back and listen to your own Bile. Your the one who said: "THE TEST SERVER DOES NOT EXIST SO THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT IF GETTING X/Y/Z RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY WEAPON IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO GET/UPGRADE."

What makes you think they care if you figure out how provoke or anything else works?

They just need you to use as much stuff, in as many situations as possible, so THEY can see if it works how THEY want it to. They don't care if you even know if it is working right. If they did, they could easily post all the game formulas.


The problem isn't when they're all online, it's that because they are signed up for the test server, and that there is a maximum participant count, they prevent people who would actually actively test shit from getting in.

Again, they can remove / add all the testers they want. They own the server. They can even add more test periods if they feel they need more data.


........I know five year olds smarter than half the people who play this game. Do you not read the forums or watch the shouts in jeuno? "Atma of the Sea Daughter is awesome for DD because the slow isn't a problem!" as an example. Seriously, go read the ffxiclopedia forums or the FFXIAH forums some time, there are so many people who know absolutely nothing about the game it's painful. And it's not just nerdy crap either, I've met people in PUGs that would make a high school drop out look like a savant.

Sometimes those are the best testers. They break things by doing things that no sane man would ever think to do.

In all those links they just tell you that you can test new stuff that is being added and post your findings. At no point do they say that that is the only way they can get data from the test (they can parse / observe just about anything if they want). Nor do they say that that is the ONLY thing they are collecting data on. Obviously new content is most important, but that doesn't mean that everything else in the game should be untested.


Honestly, I can't remember any time a relic/mythic/empy has been broken aside from that one time with Apoc. I don't frequent BG though, nor do I know anyone who's had a relic for a long time, so I may just not be informed. But again, problems related to relics can be found and tested by people who have relics. They don't affect 90% of the players, so the players who aren't in that 10% shouldn't waste their time doing something that the 10% is fully capable of doing themselves. That is my opinion though.

Again... SE is testing whether or not the weapons function correctly. A non relic owner is far more likely to point it out if final heaven suddenly starts doing 25k damage. Actual owners may be more tempted to keep that on the low.


um... ok. I know you are but what am I? I'm well aware of the fact that I'm not a member of the Dev team, thank you captain obvious.

I just had to point that out because you seem to think you are some sort of an authority on everything SE does.


Next time, try not to be such a douche, and try not to sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

I do what I want. Cry if it makes you feel better.

[Alhanelem]

and we will not be able to add more ever, or remove testers who are not logging inActually, the terms of the test server do say they can remove people who sign up but never participate.


A non relic owner is far more likely to point it out if final heaven suddenly starts doing 25k damage.Relic weapons are not the only way to use the relic weapon skills. They are available as latents on a set of easy to obtain weapons.

[Theytak]

God, it's like talking to a brick wall... how have you managed to keep your sanity for 8 pages, alhan?

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, the terms of the test server do say they can remove people who sign up but never participate.

I know, that's what I said, if you read the whole sentence you quoted.


Relic weapons are not the only way to use the relic weapon skills. They are available as latents on a set of easy to obtain weapons.

same damage, aftermath and all that? wow, that's cool.

[Kitkat]

God, it's like talking to a brick wall... how have you managed to keep your sanity for 8 pages, alhan?

Using the idiom "Like talking to a brick wall" dictates that nothing has been heard, which is not what is happening here. What is happening is you and Alhan are bringing up points that are taken out of context, misconstrued, or bring up points that can, and have been, redirected.

Both of you state "If it isn't on the under development sub-forum it isn't under testing" when there is various aspects added on the test server updates that aren't mentioned on these also.

Then there is "If it doesn't need testing then it isn't going to be there" which can be countered by the fact there is already things that are available to users which don't need to be tested. From weapons to armors, a person who normally runs around in pink gear can already get on the test server and get emp+2 gear, Relic gear, Rare/ex weapons, WoE weapons, etc. None of this is under development but is available making your argument rather invalid in this aspect.

This brings us to your next point "Just ask someone who already has it to test it for you" which has little reality to it when those of us who do have it, can't test it due to population issues. More accurately, the lack thereof. Flowing into you next response of "If these are available then the server will be flooded with people who will log on for 15min to play with them then never log on again" of which already occurs making this totally moot while assuming an awful lot also (Remember the anecdote behind "assume" When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me). Not to mention it clearly states in the sign up process that if they find out you have no intention of testing out the content your access to the server can and will be revoked to free up space for those who will. I also fail to see how a running population, on average, of 10 active people can test everything accurately.

And then the fun of "They are adding invincible mode because of the population issues." As stated before in regards to other already available "toys" on the test server this is equally attached also. In addition to this, depending on how the god mode actually works (from working like invincible for all damage to simply increasing stats to cap like brew, or possibly making it impossible to fall under 1hp) there comes other problems. If it does work like invincible and nullifies all damage, then without being kamikaze how can the content be tested accurately? The only way to counter the issues of giving a god mode to players is to make it more like an immortal mode. Damage, effects, etc still land with visible numbers in chat log, but it is impossible to die/drop under X amount of hp. If it only functions as a null to all damage sources without showing how much the damage actually is, who is to say if the content is unbalanced. Further more there are various battle tactics people use every day that 1-3 people can't test. Why? Because they are limited to the jobs they are on and in most cases can't test these in conjunction with other abilities/effects due to limited number of people participating, thus there are untested aspect of the content still existing with the possibility to break on live servers.

How is taking any point you bring up and logically countering it with various forms of information relating to, not just the test server itself, but bringing up the fact that various other things have broken that were not under development or were not even remotely attached to the updates in any shape or form? An example I can clearly recall is during CoP when Worms had an unexpected break when the effect of silence was cast on them. They suddenly had the ability to run around like other mobs. No changes to worms or silence took place in the update, but it still broke. How about the old Delivery box duplication exploit that SE had no idea about because it was never tested in the way it created duplications. The reason behind this is that users did something completely unexpected. Another example is caps you could fish up in rabao, use in a low level cloth synth, then resell to an NPC for greater than expected gil gains. More recently is the cure effect on undead doing 9999 damage when no noticeable changes were made to cures at all from their pre-existing versions.

The testing of content is to allow users from an everyday usage pool to not just make sure the content is working, but to ensure it has no exploits that could be abused to otherwise make fights too easy, or that it doesn't cause already tested content to unexpectedly break. The reason from this is that general population will use this in unexpected ways that a developer would not expect during the coding process. With the lack of coding in this scenario the content either doesn't work or breaks unexpectedly causing unwanted results.

With this, your "talking to a brick wall" idiom is out of place since your points are being taken and redirected rather than flat out ignored. This is a debate, either you bring something to the table to further prove your cause, or you find ways to squash the opposing view by showing it is over biased or too narrow in scope related to the topic at hand. It isn't a hard concept to grasp, just bring up substantial opposing views that can't be refuted.

[Alhanelem]

God, it's like talking to a brick wall... how have you managed to keep your sanity for 8 pages, alhan?It doesn't really bother me that much. I have my opinion and I will be very vocal about it, but I don't hate anyone else for disagreeing.

I can undestand the argument that anything that gets more people on the test server is a good thing, however, my perception, given the status of the relic weapons, is that the people who want to "test them"

1) do not have relic weapons of their own and their only interest in going on the test srever is to experience these weapons without having gone through the effort to obtain them, and
2)Such people are only interested in doing the above, and are less likely to test anything else or even report their findings or issues here. The only thing increasing the likelihood of reporting issues with at least the relics is the fact that you must be registered on these forums in order to participate. If it weren't for that condition, my faith would be barely more than zero that any good could possibly come out of it.

Now we have mew weaponskills to test, which should divert even more attention from relics and relic WS, because we have totally new WS which need to be tested and have the kinks hammered out (Only problem is right now, they're nonfunctional due to likely the same problem with the new rolls/pacts). It will be a lot more vaulable to SE if, when they are useable, that you devote time to these.

same damage, aftermath and all that? wow, that's cool.The catch is in the latent. You have to perform a number of other weapon skills, and after doing so, the relic weaponskill is activated for one use (then you have to charge it up again). However, these are easy drops off of various NMs in abyssea (Get them on the live server and then re-copy your character, if you can't solo them)

[FrankReynolds]

Even if your worst case scenario played out, and everyone logged in, popped a new relic ws and logged back out, never to return, there would be absolutely no harm in it. We've already determined that SE could just invite more testers.

This whole long winded argument all boils down to: Some people think they will be less special if other kids get to play with what they think are their toys.

[Zohnax]

So I just read through the many pages of non-sense arguing and if you honestly don't know what you're talking about, just stop posting. For starters, anything revolving around ToM and upgrading weapons to a higher level, Empys, relics, mythics to Lv99 could have different results than at 95. Not to mention, I personally wanted to the new WS with both Spharai/Verethragna to see how the damage weighs out for myself. It's a test server, we should be able to test everything being adjusted and I found it kind of annoying to see my Spharai(95) is a pair of gloves that are somehow a sword. You talk about supporting productivity with testing but yet I just read through how many pages of arguing over your lack of will to admit you were wrong and you feel that certain people who -are- using the test server don't need to know various bits of information about forthcoming adjustments so that they can spread it to others who may have those weapons. Logic much?

[FrankReynolds]

As if there is anyone on the test server who signed up just so that they could help SE produce a better product......

They are all there because they want to mess with new stuff that they don't have and may never get. SE doesn't need people to be pure of heart. They just need people to go mess with stuff.

Bah! Where's my weapon?!?

[Kitkat]

Dec. 16, 2011 03:53 [PST] From: FINAL FANTASY XI
Current Known Issues with the Version Update (Dec. 16)

We have identified the following issue after the version update that took place on Dec. 14, 2011.

- An issue wherein equipping a relic or mythic weapon, whose level requirement is 90 or above, as a sub-weapon will enable status effects that are not intended.

We are currently in the process of testing fixes to address this issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

Is this the part where someone is supposed to say "I told you so"? Even though I posted a thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17134-Relic-observation....) stating this a month prior...apparently it didn't go through until after the update went live.

[Kitkat]

As of the update to test server seems you can now obtain relics/mythics/emp from the Trial moogle. Choose the trial, go to reward and view it, moogle will ask if you wish to obtain this item. Choose yes and the item will be placed in inventory

[Zumi]

Yea you can now test all relic/mythic/empyrean. Easier if you look up the trail number for the weapon you want most specifically the 95 version, click on the reward item and obtain it.

[Unleashhell]

And look at this... Good thing people tested some relics on the test server and found this info out weeks ago. Oh but yeah we don't need to test relics on the test servers, they are just toys someone said.

[Akutenshi]

I think I'm the only one that agrees with Alhanelem and Theytalk. There hasn't been a game I haven't beta tested. I beta test for Microsoft and most online games that come out. You can take that with a grain of salt or whatever. Doesn't matter to me. They made some really understandable points, as did everyone else. WOE weapons are good enough to test the new weapon skills with. They are the unadulterated form and solely give out the weapon skill. That is more than enough to test for effects, bugs, etc. People complain and say that they should give out empy/relic/mythic weapons as well. Of course these things need to be tested as what Kitkat posted cleared proved lol But people tend to think that they should be on the test server which I personally feel would have more negative consequences then positive. Not that it isn't a bad idea.

Does anyone else but me think that if a gaming company comes out with these new ideas, they are probably thoroughly (normally with other game companies but apparently not SE lol) tested before the public would even know or be able test them on a public test server? Sounds like people that are stating they should be made to test out to the public make it sound like SE has done no testing on them whatsoever and just made the design for them and was like, here you go, done. If they wanted people to test relic/empy/mythic weapons they would of done so from the beginning. This was obviously not their goal and most likely wanted testers to actually test other things then something they "thought" they covered or was good enough not to test.

The fix they did that Kitkat posted sounds like it was a coding issue, not involving balance or any kind of bugs with the weapons themselves. That's just bad quality assurance testing on SE's part. How would you not test that from within the company and not find that? Lol Shoot, give everyone posting here in this forum what those testers make and they would of found that bug out I'm positive. Now from their mistake they are making those weapons obtainable. Not that it's a bad thing, but wasn't really needed.

People can use the argument, well I pay monthly I should be able to test what I want blah blah. That's the same argument as partying with a ninja with sam sub expecting him to tank. Can you do it, yeah, is it needed or viable, not really. People that complain they want to min/max and decide what is best to get, the test server really isn't for that. Has anyone every talked to a GM in FFXI asking about this, or anything in general you don't know the answer too? They always forward you to community forums. There's a reason for that. Chances are with a few days or a week of new gear, items, weapons, and content that people will have already discovered what's best, what works, and how to use it. They also have the option for people with gear to have it carried over for those are really interested about it. Should they waste resources to make everyone be able to obtain any type of gear through means, no. It costs money, time, and effort to do things like that. Granted, it seems simple to us but isn't always easy as it seems. Should the test server be used for this application gear min/maxing? Hell no. I'd rather have bugs be found within content that could potentially ruin my gaming experience then people worrying about gear and setups taking up valuable space on a test server.

It's really too late to be complaining about the weapons on the test server now as it looks like made them available. I feel they would do more bad than good and deter people from actually doing testing. That's not to say people that mess around with them will not go about testing other things, but hopefully people will keep the mindset about testing rather than messing around on the public test server.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What the hell are you talking about, allowing mythics on the test server has let us test effects we couldn't before because no one made them.

[Akutenshi]

While I'm not going to disagree with you, If SE did proper testing (on their own like any other good company) when they first created and came up with the weapons, they shouldn't need to be tested on the test server and could of focused more on whatever else they wanted tested. That's just a poor part on SE. SE shouldn't need to have things like empy/relic/mythic weapons be put on a test server in the first place. They should had their own people doing this, and quadruple check and testing this crap.

If you need the public to test big things like that then you have a problem with your testing and quality assurance / dev team.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's mostly because most of these weapons (mythics) do not look like they are worth putting in 6+ months or so to make, and most the people who do have the less popular ones either won't talk, or don't use the test server. Aymur for instance was just made for the first time after the last census, and that's across all servers... It doesn't help that SE actually expects its playerbase to test crap themselves and does not tell us what these weapons do, or if any bonuses were added to these weapons especially since no one was even bothering to make them.

SE does their own testing but whatever it involves I really don't know.

[Kitkat]

The point of QA is to ensure the product is working as intended, but as it has been shown in various games over the course of over a couple decades of gaming they simply cannot look at everything. This can be seen with various console games from almost 20 years ago on the PSX that had issues on initial release, but by the time they were "Greatest hits" they had a version change that corrected/changed something that was found to be a bug. I can think of several PS2 and PS3 titles that have this also, and I'm sure 360 titles do as well. Thing with Next gen consoles/PC is they can release patches/updates to these games that are downloaded to the internal hard drives to fix the issue.

Back to the subject of FFXI, it has already been made clear in past articles that the development team, and I would wager this extends to the QA personnel too, has been stripped to bare essential people to keep it going while the rest have moved on to FFXIV or other titles in development. I would guess that this is the prime reason the test servers were introduced in the first place, so that the QA team could focus on more critical changes, while the general public was given access to general changes to ensure that is maintained the balance they wanted. The reason behind this is generally to get feedback or to see just how the marketed players will use the content provided to them, and more importantly if there is a significant exploit/abuse possibility with the content. I can't speak for QA or the developers, but I doubt they spend all their free time on FFXI and play in the same manner as we do day to day.

Drawing board mechanics placed in motion is the easiest way to find flaws, bugs, exploits. Significant changes have been made to a vast majority of relic/mythic line since the 75 cap. The general population of FFXI works almost tirelessly to find the easiest and most rewarding path to progress, thus when even the simplest changes are made they will eventually find a flaw with it. My point was that with all the changes to these weapons occurring with each new cap the possibility for them to break increased, while the population to test the possibility of a break was nearly non-existant. Most relic holders, like myself, will not spend more time than necessary on a test server because we are possibly held to obligations with linkshells that still do events (I know I am), and those with a vast majority more time to test would be able to find these than the rest of us.

This most recent break went a long way in proving that. I would also hope that when the time comes SE allows us to test the 99 versions also to ensure that what ever this "Afterglow" effect is that it can't be exploited in a fashion what wasn't intended. I would also hope that the forum reps not only keep a closer eye on the feedback forums, but also take the time to look at other feedback that relates to possible changes to the end-line weapons too. SE is almost obsessed with balance to a frightening extent, but at the same time they don't seem to be quite obsessed in making sure that balance is properly relayed via community updates or takes into consideration how other things are grossly unbalanced in general practice compared to their respective drawing board theories.

Giving access to these weapons allows them to get far greater input on changes they have made to the weapons to date. While it also gives a lot of data to the playerbase also, the primary point was to ensure that the data relayed to the developers was of a proportion great enough to show if the weapons truely need any other adjusting, if they my need to be adjusted lower, or if there is a possible coding bug that is otherwise being overlooked that is making the weapon far stronger/weaker than intended. Personally, I know of only a handful of Mythic owners, but I see relics/emps daily on the server I play on. Out of those I know only 1 other is actually on the test server and even he didn't notice the change to relic working in offhand at the time (Personally I thought it was intended since only the +att was working, and I think it should anyway). However, I didn't know of any mythic owners on the test server, more importantly the 1handed type owners which had the biggest flaw out of both weapons (if I recall correctly even "augments XXX ability" was working in offhand) and no one knew until after the update was live. That is disturbing given the fact I even posted feedback in this very forum hoping to find out from a rep if this was intentional or not. This was the primary point of the entire thread in the "yay vs nay" argument that was constantly dismissed with half truths that the server would then become over flooded. It hasn't, infact the population is still rather low, but it is much better than it was prior since there is more content to test and gather data on that also goes hand in hand with the intended content changes.

[hiko]

The catch is in the latent. You have to perform a number of other weapon skills, and after doing so, the relic weaponskill is activated for one use (then you have to charge it up again). However, these are easy drops off of various NMs in abyssea (Get them on the live server and then re-copy your character, if you can't solo them)
because fake relic have aftermath, hidden proc, WS dmg bonus.
nobody care to test relic WS, they want to test if weapon get some "hidden" boost (like higher hidden proc rate, higher ws boost...)

[FrankReynolds]

Didn't they add them already? Why is this being debated still?

[Nightfyre]

I don't know, but the debate against granting access was appallingly short-sighted to begin with. There is quite a bit of useful information to be gleaned from having access to these weapons on the test server (especially mythics), and it also helps people who are considering various weapons make informed decisions.

[Dfoley]

If you are refering to them adding mythic/relic/empy weapons to test....they are there already. Go to the trial moogle and view the weapon you want, and it will ask if you want to obtain it. It was even posted in this thread...

[Nightfyre]

You do know the thread is almost three months old, right? Obviously it's moot now.

[Dfoley]

i see your reading skills are as weak as most of the people on the OF.

If you look 2 posts above mine, both are asking if they have added mythics yet...something already posted in this same thread 10 posts above their question

[Nightfyre]

i see your reading skills are as weak as most of the people on the OF.

If you look 2 posts above mine, both are asking if they have added mythics yet...something already posted in this same thread 10 posts above their question
I see your reading skills are at best no better than mine.

First post: "Didn't they add them already? Why is this being debated still?"

The first question is (to my eyes at least) mostly rhetorical, with the second leading from the point that yes, they have already been added.

In the second post, the "I don't know" was in response to the second question above. How can I be so sure about that? Well, I just might have written that post.

[FrankReynolds]

I see your reading skills are at best no better than mine.

First post: "Didn't they add them already? Why is this being debated still?"

The first question is (to my eyes at least) mostly rhetorical, with the second leading from the point that yes, they have already been added.


Yeah. It was rhetorical. You clearly caught that. Don't know why others didn't.