Summoner staffs...why do we solo these?

[Michae]

So many of us smns want the ToM staffs, but face it they are a time consuming pain since there are 8 of them. Why dont a few smns group up and knock these out a little faster since it doesnt have to be your avatar's kill, just a kill by that avatar or element.

I have Garuda completed and Ifrit and Shiva about half way, anyone else on Asura wanna just group up and knock these things out? We get a few smns working together they really would not take long at all. /t Michae ^^

[Clou777]

ive been doing this with my summoner LS.

[Yygdrasil]

AWWWWWW!!!! SMN LS?!?!? DO WANT!!!

[Zhronne]

I still have to understand why people do the -avatar perpetuation/-blood pact recast Staves.
Something I'm missing? They look shit to me honestly. Is there some hidden effect?

[Herby]

Well, perhaps because those are 2 of the most important stats on SMN on 1 slot of equipment

[Zhronne]

I didn't mean to troll, I just wanted to understand. I'm not a particularly skilled SMN, I'm just trying to understand something that I'm probably missing here.
You can very easily cap -bp recast without the staves, so clearly that's not the "interesting stat" on those trial staves, right?
As for the -Perp, with full AF3+2, Augur's legs and HQ staves (or Bahamut's staff) does it really matter? I think I have 2-3 mp/tic refresh with my avatar out, without taking into account weather/day (AF3+2 gloves) or storm spells from /SCH, because if we consider that then the difference is even bigger.

So why bother? It's not like those staves can be completed in 3 hours, it's a fuckton of grinding to do all 8 of them, and it also stops you from doing Healing Staff and elemental staves for other jobs like RDM, BLM or SCH.

So once more, what am I missing here? Sorry if I sound arrogant or something else, I'm just trying to understand what I'm missing. So far I've never been not even the slightest interested in doing those staves for SMN, but I'm more than willing to change my mind if someone shows me good reasons to.

[Herby]

Well i guess it's about preferences. I for one like to get other slots than the weapon free for more useful stats than perp cost and BP delay. sure, you can switch gear before, while and after executing blood pacts. But i prefer less gear swapping, while still maximizing effectivity.

For you it will probably not be worth the effort, given you are having multiple mages. But I am just playing SMN and WHM on the mage part and I don't really bother getting the cure potency staff, since i have enough potency without it.

It's really all about choices, I like the perp/bp delay staves, because they give me room to improve on other equipment slots without having to rely on perp gear too much

[Zhronne]

I see, just a different perspective for a different playstyle.
Think I grasped the whole thing a bit better now, and it sounds like I probably don't need 'em in my current situation.

Thanks! And sorry once more if I sounded too arrogant/aggressive in my previous posts.

[Soranika]

Most of SMN short comings are addressed in the AF3 set. One that is not is blood pact recast time, it hampers our ability to not only keep up with other jobs but also our effectiveness in the battle when we really need to pull of a say a healing ward or an offensive blood pact when no other jobs can get close or worried about time (such as in voidwatch). Also necessary to keep hate on avatars since SMN have horrible hate control between themselves and their avatars, unlike other pet jobs. Besides that, most of the gear that was used to cap -blood pact bonus are pretty irrelevant now. See YY robe, out classed by AF3 +1 and +2 for perp reduction as well as increasing Avatar attack damage and out classed by Pluviale as a resting/refresh piece with bonus MP and regen. If you're using the older gear to reduce perp cost, you're doing less damage overall even if you're using blood pacts faster.

Perp cost on the staves are negligible at best right now, but wait until the next level cap raise when perp cost increases again. If I'm not mistaken, average perp cost now with JUST AF3 +2 and evoker's ring sits at around 3 mp per tick if you don't have the right avatar out to gain the -perp cost during the day/weather and let's face it, not every smn have AF3 +2 and some avatars are just ineffective against certain mobs so day/weather isn't going to make them any better.

So overall, you have a staff that effectively knocks off 10 seconds from blood pact and 6mp from perp cost, which makes this already loads more better and effience over HQ staves, fay cozier, and bahamut staff. Coupled with YY Robe if you're unable to get full AF3 +2 knocks caps the -15 seconds to blood pact delay in two pieces. However coupled with a few minor -BP equipment like Caller's earring and tiresias' cape, you have have the benefit of -BP without sacrificing the any benefits that the AF3 set offers.

[Zhronne]

Besides that, most of the gear that was used to cap -blood pact bonus are pretty irrelevant now.
Dunno, personally I use AF2 head, hands, legs, feet, YY robe and Caller's earring for BP (and that brings me at the 45 seconds recast cap) but I never considered the fact that someone might prefer 8 staves instead of those 6 pieces. I mean, if it was a single staff I too would have seen it as an inventory saver and would have aimed for that, but with one staff for every avatar it looks more like an inventory waste to me. But anyway Herby's post made sense, I just never saw things from that perspective before, was looking just at my situation and wrongly assumed everybody to be in the same one.

Also, I wouldn't consider all of them completely useless yet. AF2 hands are still the best +skill hands slot you can use for buff BPs, and AF2 feet I still use for all my physical BPs.


If you're using the older gear to reduce perp cost, you're doing less damage overall even if you're using blood pacts faster.
Why should I? It's not like I use my -BP gear fulltime.
I swap into -BP gear right when I use the JA (and get 45 recast) then right after I swap into the appropriate gear before the BP really goes off. I currently have 3 sets: Physical BPs (avatar acc, att etc), Magical BPs (avatar macc, mab etc) and buff BPs (smn skill).
I mean, if you couldn't swap gear in-between (or if you don't want to for some reason) I would understand, but it's not like you're *forced* to stay in the same gear you swap to when you use the BP.



and let's face it, not every smn have AF3 +2 and some avatars are just ineffective against certain mobs so day/weather isn't going to make them any better.
I concur. But my point is that it's much quicker to get full AF3+2 (especially at level 95...) than getting all 8 staves in their +3 format. That's a whole lot of grinding and will take way more than getting seals/jewels for your AF3.

[Lilia]

Why you do bp in af2? ... i know your answer, but af3+2 set +trialstaffs is much better.

Af3 set for the buffs and setbonus (dmg*1,5~*2) but the set dont have timer-
for that you have the staffs.
And rly when you do a 9k+ heaven.strike you want bp in af3^^^

Oh and why you cant do a staff for smn AND a staff for whm,blm?

[Zhronne]

Why you do bp in af2? ... i know your answer, but af3+2 set +trialstaffs is much better.
I use AF2 on the first step of BPs usage, this allows me to keep the cooldown down to the cap of 45 seconds without sacrificing damage output.
This gets calculated the second you use the JA, not the moment when the Blood Pact really goes off.
Between the moment when you use it and the moment when your avatar executes the command there are several seconds.
I use the BP in -BP recast gear, then immediately swap to one of the 3 setups (mainly consisting of AF3+2, but not just that since there are better pieces here and there) for Physical BPs, Magical BPs and Buff BPs.
I assumed that was more or less what everybody was doing, but it seems there are people using the same set for everything D:



Oh and why you cant do a staff for smn AND a staff for whm,blm?
Yes and no, depends what you mean.
You can't have the same staff for, say, SMN and BLM, but you could for example get a Surya's staff+3 for SMN and a Surya's staff+2 for BLM.
If you meant the same exact staff then no, can only have one of each so you gotta choose which one you want.

[Lilia]

Hm not sure with with+3 , i dont have many +3 now, but i have many from +2 and same weapon.

is it new with +3 that you can only 1?

[Ezekieal]

I didn't mean to troll, I just wanted to understand. I'm not a particularly skilled SMN, I'm just trying to understand something that I'm probably missing here.
You can very easily cap -bp recast without the staves, so clearly that's not the "interesting stat" on those trial staves, right?
As for the -Perp, with full AF3+2, Augur's legs and HQ staves (or Bahamut's staff) does it really matter? I think I have 2-3 mp/tic refresh with my avatar out, without taking into account weather/day (AF3+2 gloves) or storm spells from /SCH, because if we consider that then the difference is even bigger.

So why bother? It's not like those staves can be completed in 3 hours, it's a fuckton of grinding to do all 8 of them, and it also stops you from doing Healing Staff and elemental staves for other jobs like RDM, BLM or SCH.

So once more, what am I missing here? Sorry if I sound arrogant or something else, I'm just trying to understand what I'm missing. So far I've never been not even the slightest interested in doing those staves for SMN, but I'm more than willing to change my mind if someone shows me good reasons to.

Um why cant you have all 8 and have nuking/healing staves? They arent Rare/Ex they are Aug/Ex.

[Rexen]

The elemental magian trials are not rare, that's just the multi-hit and Empyrean ones. You could have all 3 light staves if you wanted (perp-, damage and accuracy).

As for why the staves are worth it, I had the level 80 ones before the level cap raise and I got all the refresh from my armor and +1 from the ability, so I had a 4 tick refresh with avatars out and no favor. I don't know how you can get that without the staves tbh. I'm missing Oneiros grip and Moonshade earring too so could get more. With the level cap raise I need the level 85 staves to keep the refresh and may as well get the higher ones since they require so little effort. I think they are worth the effort and make a big difference to what you can do as a Summoner without having to worry so much about your MP.

[Yygdrasil]

Why you do bp in af2? ... i know your answer, but af3+2 set +trialstaffs is much better.

Af3 set for the buffs and setbonus (dmg*1,5~*2) but the set dont have timer-
for that you have the staffs.
And rly when you do a 9k+ heaven.strike you want bp in af3^^^
Oh and why you cant do a staff for smn AND a staff for whm,blm?

How are you getting 9k with Heavenly Strike?

I use Ultimate/Beyond and Minikin and I only ever hit 6...MAYBE 7k

[Razushu]

How are you getting 9k with Heavenly Strike?

I use Ultimate/Beyond and Minikin and I only ever hit 6...MAYBE 7k

AF3 +2 set proc I'm assuming.

[Zhronne]

I stand corrected for the multiple staves! Dunno why I was absolutely convinced they were rare.
Shame on me!

[Yygdrasil]

Maybe I'm just unlucky then... I have the full set and I never see that kinda damage.

[Lilia]

right is the max setproc (x2)

[Razushu]

Maybe I'm just unlucky then... I have the full set and I never see that kinda damage.

Had it happen once or twice now with 3/5 +2s, so it's rare enough lol.

[Yygdrasil]

Had it happen once or twice now with 3/5 +2s, so it's rare enough lol.

Hook me up with the person who made your sig. I like it.

[Yygdrasil]

nvm found it. Kingfury

[Zhronne]

Maybe I'm just unlucky then... I have the full set and I never see that kinda damage.
Never really digged carefully through information on the set bonus, but I always assumed it worked similarly to BLM's?

We have a new trait called Blood Boon which works similarly to Conserve MP.
It has a certain time to proc, and when it does it greatly reduces the amount of MP used for that blood pact.
Set bonus makes so that when this happens (i.e. blood boon procs) there's another small chance (~10%?) that the Blood Pact will do double damage.

So it's ~10% chance on something (blood boon) that has a low proc rate, which means it's much less than 10% and hence why you haven't seen it very often.
To maximise the set bonus proc changes you probably would have to equip the full set and a lot of +blood boon gear. Increasing the chances of Blood Boon to proc consequentially increases the chances of the set bonus to proc. There's not much Blood Boon gear sadly.
Diabolos Belt if I recall, Gifted Earring and Soulscourge (and AF3 of course). Something else I forgot?

I don't have my sets with me atm (@ office) but I think I do use full AF3+2 during the last part of my magical BP macros. Think I've seen the bonus proc a few times on Voidwatch with Thunderstorm for ~3k damage in Voidwatch.
Sadly never had many chances to play SMN in Abyssea, so never saw those sexy Ultimate/Beyond/Minikin procs but I have no troubles believing people can do more than 7k. I did 4-5k damage on a lot of mob with Shiva, if you double that damage with Set bonus you could easily break 7k and even much more.

[Yygdrasil]

Yes... yes... and am I correct in thinking that you do not need the full 5/5 +2s in order to get the set bonus? The way i figured... it was just: The more +2 versions you have... the greater the chance... like 2% proc rate/piece at a maximum of 10%. That way... even if you only have 1 +2 item in a set, you at least still got the bonus some of the time.

This is of course contrary to the way I envisioned a "set" working based on previous experience... I always assumed that you actually needed the SET to make it work... not just part of the set.

[Zhronne]

Yes... yes... and am I correct in thinking that you do not need the full 5/5 +2s in order to get the set bonus?
Supposing I'm right and that the SMN AF3+2 proc % is roughly 10% (most sets have 5%, a few have 10) then yes, you're very right.
It increases the more pieces you have. For the 5% sets it's 2% for 2 pieces, 3% for 3 pieces, 4% for 4 pieces, 5% for 5 pieces.
Guess it's double that for 10% sets.



I always assumed that you actually needed the SET to make it work... not just part of the set.
Yes but there are some sets that work with partial bonuses. The Allied Notes ones are another example of sets working that way.
There might be more I can't remember of.

[Yygdrasil]

Thank you for clearing that up... I had my suspicions... but I could never find any concrete research into ability... you know... because it's a SMN ability... and for whatever reason... we get ignored a lot.