Level 99 - Trial of the Citadel

[SirDayne]

I would like to see some sort of job advancement (not merits) mission/quest/battle once we hit level 99. This is an idea that while similar to Final Fantasy I's job upgrades, but would be different.

FFXI's AF1 armor mentions alternate names (or titles) for the jobs we play as, which is more or less a title that's said but not really done anything with.
Black Mage = Wizard
Red Mage = Warlock
etc.

In FFI you were able to advance your job to an upgraded version which granted new spells and abilities. e.g.
Black Wizard got new spells, Warrior became Knight and gained access to low tier White Magic and able to equip all weapons and armor.

So basically, tl;dr:
I am suggesting a new job advancement system for Level 99 jobs that indicate mastery of a job. You would have to complete a challenging (but not impossible) quest in a new dungeon [The Citadel] and fight a final boss in order to earn the right to your new job title.

Once completed, you would gain access to powerful new spells and abilities earned via Trial of the Magians or story-based quests. Subjobs would be disabled (or very gimped) on the "new jobs" in order to maintain game balance.

Black Mage => Black Wizard (WIZ)
White Mage => Devout (DVT)
Red Mage => Warlock (WLK)
etc.

Feel free to add to this.

[svengalis]

Sounds like you want a totally new game LOL.

[Zatias]

I opened the thread expecting a book burn in Garbage Shitidel.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass. ; ;

[Camate]

Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board.

[SpankWustler]

I'd prefer to just stay at 99. It's the traditional level cap in many Final Fantasy games, and it seems like being level 50 would open several new cans of worms for several sub-jobs.

Besides, a level is just a number. Looking at things pragmatically; new traits, spells, and abilities come whenever they're developed rather than when we level up.

[Asymptotic]

100 is a much nicer number to look at than 99.

There may be some balance issues to look at with support job abilities, but I mean, there are already abilities that have been set to main-job-only (such as Yonin/Innin).

As a result, I'd definitely prefer 100. It's a nice round number.

[Symbiote]

Every FF game has stopped at 99. Why should XI be any different? I say get it to 99 and be done with it.

100 might be a nice number to look at, all fancy with its snazzy triple digits. I, however, would like to see some continuity within the FF series. Even if the only saving grace is the cap of its levels.

[Asymptotic]

Every FF game has stopped at 99.


FFVII? FFVIII?
Level cap of 100.



I, however, would like to see some continuity within the FF series.

Too late.

[Economizer]

While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

First off, only being able to take one job to 100 is stupid. It reeks of the parts of the merit system where you can only choose certain skills to get a boost to, or to the quests that might have three different choices of gear but you can only have one at a time. Personally, these can suck to an extent - you have to choose to specialize more on one job then others, which defeats the point of FFXI's very unique and well made job change system. While it is tolerable in its current form, something like limiting one job to be able to go up a level like that is too far. Thankfully, you made sure to not put this on the table, but I'd like to make sure it remains off the table, and in the trash.

Before I delve into what it would really mean to go to 100, here is a bit on the level number. Level affects like Level 5 Petrify would work on us again, something we thought we would finally defeat at level 99. This somewhat sucks. On the bright side, gear like the Multiple Ring (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Multiple_Ring) or the Divisor Ring (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Divisor_Ring) would work once again.

Ultimately, while there may be spells and abilities that you get at level 100 that would be very powerful, but we can't really know what these are currently. But we can know what we'd get from subjobs by getting that super precious level +1.

Ignoring stat/skill boosts, Warrior and Monkwould grant no specific improvements.


Thief would grant Evasion Bonus III, (~13 evasion upgrade).
White Mage would grant Clear Mind III, Divine Veil (Divine Seal makes debuff removal AOE), Magic Defense Bonus III (~2 MDB upgrade), Divine Benison, and Holy.
Black Mage would grant Magic Attack Bonus III (~4 MAB upgrade), Elemental Celerity (Elemental Casting time -15%), and Freeze.
Red Mage would grant Composure (extended duration to self buffs), Resist Petrify III, Fire II, Enthunder II.
Dark Knight would grant Attack Bonus III (~13 attack upgrade).
Beast Master would grant Aquan Killer.
Bard would grant Dark Carol.
Ranger would grant Accuracy Bonus III (~13 accuracy upgrade), and Dead Aim (increased crits for ranged attacks).
Ninja would grant Resist Bind III.
Samurai would grant Store TP III (~5 sTP upgrade).
Dragoon would grant Accuracy Bonus II (~12 accuracy upgrade), and Super Jump (Massive hate reduction, and a brief invulnerability effect while in the air).
Summoner would grant Max MP Boost III (+20 MP), Elemental Siphon (more MP), and the Blood Pact Double Slap.
Blue Mage would grant the spells Self-Destruct and Frightful Roar and any traits that you'd be able to create with those.
Corsair would grant Random Deal (can possibly reset one non-2hour, non-Random Deal job ability timer for each party member in range).
Puppet Master would grant Martial Arts II (H2H delay -20), and Resist Slow II.
Scholar would grant Clear Mind III, Protect III, Stona (Add.White), and Ice Spikes. It would also grant an additional charge of Strategems, and a 40 second recharge reduction, to one minute and twenty seconds per charge.

Basically, the main improvements would be on the jobs White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, Dark Knight, Ranger, Dragoon, Summoner, Scholar.

White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, and Scholar would get major improvements as subs. White Mage would become better at debuff removal and get Holy, which while unlikely to open up new possibilities for other jobs, would be a usable proc in Abyssea. Black Mage would become a more powerful sub when using elemental magic on a main like Red Mage or Scholar, in addition to getting Freeze (procs). Red Mage would grant Composure, making it a more combat effective sub - and would probably be important for Ninja, Paladin, and Blue Mage. Scholar would get Stona for aiding healing jobs, but mainly the extra strat charge and reduced charge time would greatly aid jobs that currently sub it.

Summoner would become slightly more viable with more MP regeneration, Dark Knight better at attack, and Ranger better at aiding subs using it for weapon skills. Samurai gets an extra five Store TP, making X hit builds that much easier. Dragoon might open up new possibilities with Super Jump.

-

While I can't say no to more power offered like this (and for this alone, I think it is a good idea), I do think many people (primarily Red Mages and Black Mages) would complain endlessly about this, and "giving away their key job abilities!"

I like the possibilities that would be opened up from this, so I think it is a good idea.

[Asymptotic]

Composure sounds like one of those JAs that would be unavailable as a support job, just like Solace/Misery/Yonnin/Innin. It's hard to argue that level 100 would do anything for a specific support job because you never know what they might change around or restrict to main job only.

[Choerilos]

I would like 100. We've been working in sets of 5 levels for so long, why not keep doing it to the end? And if we cap at 99, lvl5 petrify won't affect us, which is sad.

[Zhronne]

Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board.
I'd definitely like 100 more. Looks better as a number, and would allow us to get subjobs to level 50, which opens a couple of interesting new options on several jobs.
THF: Evasion Bonus III
WHM: Divine Veil, Divine Benison, MDB III, Clear Mind III, Holy
BLM: MAB III, Elemental Celerity, Freeze (!!!)
BRD: last carol (completing the cycle and giving access to all 8 as subjob, altough lol@BRDsubjob)
SAM: StoreTP III, nuff said
DRG: Super Jump, Accuracy Bonus II, altough with the amount of haste gear people can get nowadays, nobody probably uses /DRG anymore, and it makes me sad because new job traits like the ones already mentioned and stuff like Conserve TP would have made it even better than it was before.
SCH: Clear Mind III, one more Stratagem (!!!), Stona
DNC: Building Flourish

Just looks better to me being 50 on subjob than 49, despite of the possible improvements.
I really hope all jobs can get to 100, and another levelcap quest 99>100 should be implemented as well of course :)


It's not a common thing in Final Fantasy Games, but THERE HAVE BEEN other FF games where you could reach level 100 instead of 99, so it wouldn't really be a new thing for FFXI.

[Zhronne]

Every FF game has stopped at 99.
Most, not all.

[Amador]

Level 100 would be ideal. Level is a lot more than a number, it matters drastically especially against harder foes.

As stated above, it would also grant a lot of abilities that would be useful for a number of jobs that have only ever been thought of to be great if only they were available at some point as a sub-job.

While level 99 was the traditional Final Fantasy level cap it's never been a traditional Final Fantasy 11 increase when dealing with level caps, and raises since level 50. The increments in levels have always been a solid 5, never 3. Which if it would have been 3 then 99 would of been understandable level cap.

Final Fantasy 11 has defined it's self as it's own Final Fantasy, and like all other Final Fantasies they do differ and only the lore and certain spells depending on world remain the same.

Level 100 Equipment, and level would certainly be nice on the eyes. A rounded number, that while increasing effectiveness of players against monsters would also still allow certain spells such as the one stated above: Level 5 Petrify to continue being a useful tactic from monsters. It will also allow for the release of stronger monsters that actually challenge players to that degree.

Level 100 in more ways than one, would be a better future for 11 as a whole.

Side Note: I just hope, that once these Neo-Merits are released that they provide more than simply capping and choosing between abilities/traits. I hope that they allow for personal customization to make players unique from one another depending on play style, target monsters and overall usefulness. Rather than a simple collection that ends up being a level 75 repeat for merits in cookie cutter fashion.

Go 100 or go home!

[Vagrua]

You also need to take into consideration that Ahriman's Level 5 Petrify becomes useless once everyone hits level 99.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Fine with me so long as you block Composure, otherwise the final nail in the coffin will hit RDM.

[Symbiote]

FFVII? FFVIII?
Level cap of 100.
I haven't played 7 in years and I never did get to finish 8.. I could've sworn 7 has a cap of 99.

[Orson]

I haven't played 7 in years and I never did get to finish 8.. I could've sworn 7 has a cap of 99.

Ya it was just VIII that had the 100 cap. The thing is other FFs didn't even have "levels" or level caps really.

I'd like to see us hit 100/50 just for the better SJ boosts.

[Chilloa]

Despite popular opinion, I'll go ahead and say I would prefer the level cap to be 100. Barely any logic behind my thinking though, I would prefer <mjob>100/<sjob>50. Just my two cents though.

[Nihilist]

Level affects like Level 5 Petrify would work on us again, something we thought we would finally defeat at level 99. This somewhat sucks. On the bright side, gear like the Multiple Ring or the Divisor Ring would work once again.

I don't feel it's right that we lose out on gear because of this, more of a reason to be level 100...As for the Level 5 Petrify? We need to man up and eat some stona...


I like the possibilities that would be opened up from this, so I think it is a good idea.

I completely agree

[Washburn]

/propose yell "Level cap @ 99 or 100?"
[1] 99
[2] 100


/vote 2

[Solonuke]

FFV had in fact level 100 cap. The original FFI had a level cap of 50 actually. There was no levels in FFII and FFX.

[Mageoholic]

Level 100 great Idea.

Locking out abilities from subjobs, stupid idea.

I think the current blocks should be removed on all locked abilities. It adds more variety to the game, and in certain cases will help to close large gaps. For Example a WHM can make use of /RDM Convert, or /SCH Accession, but SCH or RDM can not make use of Cureskin from Solace. A NIN can make use of Reverse Flourish, but a DNC can not make use of Yonin or Innin.

I think all abilities should be available at all times, it just doesn't make sense to restrict certain ones and not others.

(inb4 the game balance tears.)

[Ophannus]

SO true. I hate that as a RDM, WHM/RDM can use Convert at full potency and Addle, but RDM/WHM can't use Afflatus or Cure 5. I thought RDM was supposed to be the Enfeeble specialist but BLM gets Breakga, WHM gets Flash and Addle. The only enfeeble RDM has over other jobs is merit spells and Gravity. That's like removing Curagas and Curas and giving PLD RDM SCH Cure V and making Cure 6 the only unique cure spell a WHM gets and making it merit only. SCH can sub RDM and get Haste but RDM cant sub SCH and Accession Enspell IIs or Hastega the party.

I would like Level 100 for the sole reason that 96-99 is only 4 levels. How much could the devs really give to jobs in 4 levels. We hardly got anything 91-95.

[Symbiote]

Honestly, If RDM was to get Cure V, they would have to give it to PLD as well, considering the level range of cures. Doesn't seem right. RDM wasn't designed to be a main healer and we know this. We forced it into that position and neglected its enfeebling for years. SCH on the other hand should at least gain access to the spell.

As for Breakga. BLM has always been the -ga job. If I recall, the BLM mobs get it, but the RDM mobs only get single target, right?

[Yugl]

1 TP move v Tons of boss sub benefits? I'll take 100.

[Symbiote]

Job abilities granted at 50:
COR: Random Deal
RDM: Composure
DRG: Super Jump
SMN: Elemental Siphon

Spells granted at 50:
White Magic: Holy, Enthunder II
Black Magic: Freeze
Songs: Dark Carol
Ninjutsu: None.
Blue Magic: Self Destruct, Frightful Roar

Given the sub job choices that the majority use, there is truly no real benefit to 50 over 49.

Now, if you guys want to talk about SE giving us currently locked job abilities on sub jobs, that would be another story. Why do we get Hasso/Seigan but not Yonin/Innin? Insteado of arguing over 1 level on our main and sub jobs, we should be talking about how we can benefit from job abilities currently inaccessible by the restrictions that the dev team put in place. Quiet foolish on all ends, if you ask me.

[Economizer]

Fine with me so long as you block Composure, otherwise the final nail in the coffin will hit RDM.

Seriously? Well, it wasn't unexpected (called it), nor is the source surprising.

I've been starting to think about this more and more. Restricting (with the possible exception of Call Wyvern) job abilities might not be such a good idea. After all, SE didn't restrict Meditate or Zanshin, but instead, they made them not as good as their main job counterparts.

Afflatus Solace and Misery should probably be given out, with Solace only giving a 10% Stoneskin buff, and both Misery and Solace should have reduced effectiveness on Holy and Banish charges.
Yonin could be nerfed by having reduced Ninja Tool Expertise (probably 10% instead of the 25%) and no critical hit changes, while Innin should have a greatly reduced Critical Hit and Magic Attack Bonus buff (5-10% instead of the current 30%, probably safer on the low end).
Velocity Shot, the only other job restricted ability, could keep the debuff to melee attacks, but only have a 5% Ranged Attack buff.
Generally, restricting these instead of giving them debuffs has caused more whining, and made for slightly worse game play then it would have otherwise, and this is true of most job abilities.

Obviously Composure is stronger already for Red Mage main then it would be in the hands of any sub (AF3 duration buffs say hello). Also, other jobs are giving out major power boosts, so Red Mage as a sub would have to balance with this too.

In all probability, the accuracy buff (I think it is like +15) on Composure wouldn't make it if it was ever something you could use on a sub job. It isn't a large buff (and wouldn't be out of line with what other jobs provide from the same level boost) but it probably wouldn't make it.

The other question would be, would the duration be double (nerfed) or triple (the same as a Red Mage without any AF3, casting on self)?

Since Composure gives a 25% penalty to recasts (without Red Mage main's enhanced Fast Cast to counter it) it already becomes very situational for jobs that commonly sub Red Mage such as White Mage, Scholar, and Black Mage.

I'd expect White Mage to possibly use it for self-Haste, Phalanx, Refresh, and possibly Ice Spikes. It would be used, the spells would be cast, and it would be canceled. Scholar would probably have a similar setup, but with the addition of Klimaform, possible a weather spell, and Regen. Scholars would merely do this to save on Stratagems (they can double or more the duration of White Magic already), and to full time Klimaform like a Red Mage main can now. Black Mages would probably use it for self-Haste, self-Refresh, and self-Phalanx and remove it as well. Basically, the jobs that most compete with Red Mage can't use Composure for the things Red Mage does.

Most other jobs can't really use Composure all that much, aside from the uses already mentioned, and making /RDM slightly more effective. The only other job that this would affect majorly would be Paladin.

Paladin would use it when they could afford to eat it on the Flash recasts in order to full time Reprisal.

Ultimately, the question is, is a Paladin full timing Reprisal overpowered? And even better question is, what White Mage in their right mind would give up Light Arts for any job ability Red Mage has?
-

I would have also had a writeup on Blue Mage and Ninja, but Composure doesn't work on non-Enhancing spells. Well, that and no Ninja in its right mind would ever use Composure even if this wasn't the case, although Red Mage is a good sub if your goal is to full time Migawari.

Edit: Actually, you could probably come pretty close to full timing Reprisal as is, especially if you go /SCH currently. Also, double duration would probably still make this possible. Still, it is probably the main thing that would be affected, since Klimaform is slated to get a duration increase anyways.

[Alhanelem]

The "tradidional" level cap of 99 is utter silliness. Most games kept level caps at 99 due to display limitations (e.g. not enough space in the window/dialog for a three digit number), rather than a concious decision of it being a "cool" number or a "tradition."

I suspect that FFXI might have this problem as well, but regardless, if it's possible to make it 100, it should be 100. Nice even numbers are preferable to odd numbers that cause the maximum subjob level to be less than one half of the main job level.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth.

Um... por que?

[Keinn]

Level 100 cap gets my vote.

I simply wish to sub /DRG and use super jump to shed hate on any job. Do want! :D

[MarkovChain]

level 100 because I want to equip my divisor ring of pimpness. The latent effect on it is level multiple of 5 lol. Also it's 1 more level and one more SJ level so we are stronger...

[Coldbrand]

No, 99 is the proper FF cap.

[Bulrogg]

Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board.

Time for another poll?

I'd like to be able to at least obtain level 100 on one job if not all.

[MDenham]

All I ask is that if the cap does end up being 100, that our level is shown as "★★" if we're at the cap.

[Dew]

100 cap is good.

[atlanray]

I'm all for the cap being 100 because I want 3 strat charges as /sch.

[Arcon]

I vote 99, it feels more traditional. The thought of having access to /SCH50 or /SAM50 sounds tempting, but 99 feels more real. And it would solve the display issue, that would probably take SE around five months to fix.

[Seiowan]

FFVII? FFVIII?
Level cap of 100.


Too late.Actually, the level limit on FFVII was 99. Final Fantasy 8 did indeed have a 100 cap, but its one of the few exceptions.

I'd like to see the cap remain at 99 myself. There are too many balance issues with raising it to 100, and aside from 'looking nice' in the Status menu, there's not a lot of difference between them, support jobs aside. Since the support job imbalance is the main reason I disagree with having a 50 cap (That's the level where a lot of important job-specific abilities and traits appear) I'm with the 99 crowd on this one.

[brayen]

I would say 100/50
The balance on the different sub will undoubtedly be looked over and i doubt they can give us any ideas they have on said subject at this time so basing everything on my ideas on what they will actually not change.
Nothing much really looks game changing, however looking over some of the job traits for lv 100 it doesn't seem like many of the good ones will show up at 100 (like no stp for sam and no new stratagem for sch etc) then again you never know i guess, dev can change anything. Lv 95 was somewhat disappointing after such a long wait so here is hoping for nicer toys at 100(or 99)!

[ThaiChi]

I would love 100. Tradition or not there has been previous FFs with a max level of 100 as mentioned by some, that's not a good enough reason to not give us 1 more level. I use NIN/DRK a lot and personally would like to benefit from Atk Bonus 3, or even DRG/SAM or DRK/SAM that would benefit but not overpower from another tier of Store TP. If the devs would allow Composure, I'd personally like to see BLMs not have to worry about reapplying Phalanx every 3 minutes. Even /DRG could be a viable thing for people who don't know how to hold back. It's not like Lv.50 sub would grant the abilities, spells, or traits that would break any job at the moment anyway.

[Seriha]

Go for 100. More room to cram spells/JAs in for the "final" push and in the event some day in the future the new cap is 125 or whatever, the subsequent break would involve an uneven climb at some point and would certainly introduce one at 99 itself.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

255 or bust!

[Seyomeyo]

Just going along with what everyone else is saying:

-FFXI has been doing level increases of 5. No reason to stop now.
-There is no reason to keep us at 99 because of traditional FF level caps. The "tradition" was often set by graphical limitations.
-Any SJ imbalance can be looked over on a case by case basis. It happened at 80 and the universe hasn't imploded yet.

So my vote is for 100

[Arcon]

While I still vote 99, imbalance is not an argument against 100. I find it odd to even mention balance with the current standing of the game. Making Convert and Refresh subbable was the biggest imbalance I could imagine. The only thing that could come even halfway close is /SCH getting 40% higher stratagem efficiency, with higher stratagem count to boot. Apart from that, nothing about this is a major increase, not even Composure.

[Eurell]

100 please.

[Nauthima]

I'm voting for 100.

[Ashay]

I'd prefer 100/50. It feels more complete to me, and having the extra spells, abilities and job traits would be nice.

[Keyln]

Level 99 please

[Dann]

I"d have to put my vote in and say <Yes Please> to level 100

[Brentt]

I also am gonna go ahead and vote for level 100!

[Aver]

Let's get it over with and go 100.

[Perfectus]

My vote is for 100 because it would be stupid not to accept an extra level if it's being offered. There are no good reasons to vote for 99.

"Level 5 petrify" How often does anyone ever really fight ahrimans?

"Balance" It's not our job to worry about this. Even if they take away all the spells, JT's, and JA's you get from a lvl 50 sub we would still get an extra lvl's worth of hp/mp stats and lvl correction. It's a free, albeit small, buff for every job.

Instead of whining about whether or not X job will get to sub your jobs special abilities and make you less special, whine about getting new special job-defining abilities, that way you can still feel special and we can still get a use out of being able to sub other jobs. I mean that's the point to being able to isn't it? Or maybe SE should just get rid of subjobs altogether and everyone loses?

Oh yea... "Tradition" I don't even know what to say about this. It's not even worth arguing.

[Hannah]

100 (Yes, please.)

[brayen]

"Level 5 petrify" How often does anyone ever really fight ahrimans?


*lvl 100 update arrives*
"...ahrimans...ahrimans EVERYWHERE~"

[Arcon]

Oh yea... "Tradition" I don't even know what to say about this. It's not even worth arguing.

Neither is anything of what you said. There's no good reason to do it, just as there's no reason not to do it. It's just a matter of personal preference.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

While I still vote 99, imbalance is not an argument against 100. I find it odd to even mention balance with the current standing of the game. Making Convert and Refresh subbable was the biggest imbalance I could imagine. The only thing that could come even halfway close is /SCH getting 40% higher stratagem efficiency, with higher stratagem count to boot. Apart from that, nothing about this is a major increase, not even Composure.

Basically every one of RDM's JA's being sub-jobable is a massive imbalance. Sorry but it is, they were quick enough to block NIN's and WHM's JA's.

[Troupe]

I like the idea of seeing my jobs as 100 rather than 99. Although other FF cap at 99 I always had a feeling of being incomplete once I had everyone 99. Plus level 100 would bring extra stat boost which I'm not going to complain about!

I vote 100!

[Sotek]

I'd rather SE spend time at Lv.99 working on new abilities for each job, rather than spending all their time at Lv.100 balancing the massive amount of spells and abilities that will suddenly become accessible, considering they barely managed at Lv.80 (see: Red Mage).

Like it or not Lv.100 is going to take a great deal of time to balance and implement; unless they just cap subs at Lv.49, but then Lv.100 is worthless, they have to adjust Lv.50 abilities for Lv.100 to be worthwhile and that's going to take time. Considering they have a much smaller team these days, the cap rise would without a doubt be pushed back an update if they decide to do Lv.100. That means new merits are pushed back an update and new endgame is pushed back an update. Not worth it for one levels worth of stats and maybe some new toys from subjob.

Lv.100 adds little to nothing to the game, its potentially crippling for some jobs and certainly going to push back new content if they decide to seriously balance it. Lv.99 has none of those problems, they've been planning it for about a year now and it should already be set in stone. There's no reason for them to change that now.

[Amador]

Sotek that post is completely speculation.

It's basically a preference, how can you say that 100 is going to squander potential releases, and other abilities. Completely silly. You can't sit there and say that 99, or 100 has any issues. You simply do not know. They have restricted certain abilities from certain jobs more than once. There's no issues with this being implemented in the future.

Regardless of what balancing they do for 100. It still comes down to them ACTUALLY balancing EVERYTHING at 100 ANYWAYS. It's work that will need to be done regardless. So don't say anything gets pushed back simply because of *insert reason here* simply because you feel like it. The post is what would you like to see, 99 or 100? Simple.

It's not for you to sit there and attempt to fathom the capability of the people who actually get paid to balance, create, and continue to COMPETE in the MMO world to continue profiting off of this little money maker. They get paid for a reason, and their main concern right now is appeasing the community on a majority scale. Which right now, in this thread seems to be heavily towards 100.

[Zatias]

Voting 99 because all my SJ are lvl 49 and I'm too lazy to lvl them up 1 time.

Seriously though, 99. As said earlier, RDM does not need any more kicks to the nuts. I'm sure they would grant Composure to any job subbing RDM rather than main RDM only, which shows tons of bias towards other jobs (NIN and WHM) for not giving their abilities as a SJ.

If SE could work out some balance between what abilities should be granted and what abilities are main job exclusive, then I wouldn't mind 100 cap. However, my faith in that has been reduced quite a bit over the past year, so I am sticking with 99.

[Sotek]

Sotek that post is completely speculation.

It's basically a preference, how can you say that 100 is going to squander potential releases, and other abilities. Completely silly. You can't sit there and say that 99, or 100 has any issues. You simply do not know. They have restricted certain abilities from certain jobs more than once. There's no issues with this being implemented in the future.

Regardless of what balancing they do for 100. It still comes down to them ACTUALLY balancing EVERYTHING at 100 ANYWAYS. It's work that will need to be done regardless. So don't say anything gets pushed back simply because of *insert reason here* simply because you feel like it. The post is what would you like to see, 99 or 100? Simple.

It's not for you to sit there and attempt to fathom the capability of the people who actually get paid to balance, create, and continue to COMPETE in the MMO world to continue profiting off of this little money maker. They get paid for a reason, and their main concern right now is appeasing the community on a majority scale. Which right now, in this thread seems to be heavily towards 100.

It's not speculation. Not baseless speculation anyway.

Currently the plan is for the cap to be Lv.99. This requires no changes, it's already in motion.
If they change to a Lv.100 cap, they need to balance a great deal of abilities from subs.

I'm not trying to fathom their capabilities. It's a fact that raising the cap to Lv.100 would involve more work than Lv.99. There's a helpful post on the first page that lists all the things that would become accessible via sub, I count at least ten things SE would really need to balance that they wouldn't need to balance with a Lv.99 cap. That's ten extra pieces of work, I'm speculating the time that would take, yes, but it's a cold hard fact that they'd need to do that extra work all the same. Considering they failed with something like Red Mage at Lv.80 and their team has probably gotten smaller since then, I do actually start to doubt their capabilities somewhat. Heck, we just got our August update in September, so lets not pretend that it's impossible for them to delay something even when they haven't got a whole lot of extra work to do.

[Arcon]

Currently the plan is for the cap to be Lv.99. This requires no changes, it's already in motion.
If they change to a Lv.100 cap, they need to balance a great deal of abilities from subs.

Not really. Nothing at Lv50 is in any way groundbreaking. The real stuff all came from 40 to 49 (Convert, Refresh, WHM Haste, RDM Haste, Accession/Manifestation, Dual Wield III, Sekkanoki, etc.). What does Lv50 have over 49? Stratagems and Composure are the only things even worth mentioning, the rest can be useful, but hardly a balancing issue at all. What subjob balancing have they done in the past? Warcry, Utsusemi: Ni, Meditate, WHM JAs and NIN JAs, those are the only ones worth mentioning.


Voting 99 because all my SJ are lvl 49 and I'm too lazy to lvl them up 1 time.

Quite possibly the best reason to vote for 99.

[Rezeak]

I'd vote that you could take only 1 job to 100 and the rest to 99 :P

[Covenant]

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=19090&start=15

I was one of the first to propose a lvl break passed 75 and a new "super" area.

That being said, I'm going to call it...we go passed 99... Unlimited.

The "fear" being shown about who gets what at lvl 100, is the same fear when we went passed 75. Things change, while I diont think we'll see the change soon, once people have gotten used to lvl 99 or 100, and people still interested in playing then eventually we'll go beyond.

One of the most important changes passed 75 was the new freshnest that new sub job offered. Staples such as /nin and /war was no longer needed.

[Godofgods]

Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board.

Honestly i dont see their being that much diffrence in terms of strength or anything from being 99 to 100. I would imagin the main benefit would be any lvl 50 abilities/spells that you would gain from subjobs.

[Symbiote]

Going back a page for a moment.


I'd rather SE spend time at Lv.99 working on new abilities for each job, rather than spending all their time at Lv.100 balancing the massive amount of spells and abilities that will suddenly become accessible, considering they barely managed at Lv.80 (see: Red Mage).

Like it or not Lv.100 is going to take a great deal of time to balance and implement; unless they just cap subs at Lv.49, but then Lv.100 is worthless, they have to adjust Lv.50 abilities for Lv.100 to be worthwhile and that's going to take time. Considering they have a much smaller team these days, the cap rise would without a doubt be pushed back an update if they decide to do Lv.100. That means new merits are pushed back an update and new endgame is pushed back an update. Not worth it for one levels worth of stats and maybe some new toys from subjob.

Lv.100 adds little to nothing to the game, its potentially crippling for some jobs and certainly going to push back new content if they decide to seriously balance it. Lv.99 has none of those problems, they've been planning it for about a year now and it should already be set in stone. There's no reason for them to change that now.
Did you not read my post on page 2? There isn't much to offer at 100/50 in terms of spells and abilities. If you took the time to look it up for yourself on wiki, you would realize this. I don't know where this "massive amount" is coming from. Possibly out of your rear?

I get that you are against 100, I am too. However, if you are going to make an argument against it, make sure you bring facts and not imaginary data that you haven't even thought about. The only things that would come at 100/50, for subs, that could potentially "break" the games mechanics is Composure for RDM and Super Jump for DRG. Would you like to know how SE would balance this out? If you guessed anything other than "lock the ability on subs", you would be wrong. Because that is exactly what SE would do and not give it a second thought.

With that said, I (again) vote for level 99.

[Siviard]

I love how this thread progressed from this


I would like to see some sort of job advancement (not merits) mission/quest/battle once we hit level 99. This is an idea that while similar to Final Fantasy I's job upgrades, but would be different.

FFXI's AF1 armor mentions alternate names (or titles) for the jobs we play as, which is more or less a title that's said but not really done anything with.
Black Mage = Wizard
Red Mage = Warlock
etc.

In FFI you were able to advance your job to an upgraded version which granted new spells and abilities. e.g.
Black Wizard got new spells, Warrior became Knight and gained access to low tier White Magic and able to equip all weapons and armor.

So basically, tl;dr:
I am suggesting a new job advancement system for Level 99 jobs that indicate mastery of a job. You would have to complete a challenging (but not impossible) quest in a new dungeon [The Citadel] and fight a final boss in order to earn the right to your new job title.

Once completed, you would gain access to powerful new spells and abilities earned via Trial of the Magians or story-based quests. Subjobs would be disabled (or very gimped) on the "new jobs" in order to maintain game balance.

Black Mage => Black Wizard (WIZ)
White Mage => Devout (DVT)
Red Mage => Warlock (WLK)
etc.

Feel free to add to this.

To this....


100 is a much nicer number to look at than 99.

There may be some balance issues to look at with support job abilities, but I mean, there are already abilities that have been set to main-job-only (such as Yonin/Innin).

As a result, I'd definitely prefer 100. It's a nice round number.

And the reason for this epic derailment???


Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board

CAMATE DERAILED THE THREAD!

[Asymptotic]

Camate tends to post things that were translated from responses in the JP forums.
There tends to be an isomorphism between the two forums: that is, if there's an important thread about it in the JP forum, there's a thread about it in the EN forums and vice-versa.

The LV100 response was posted a few days ago in the JP forums, and I'm guessing this was the closest thread Camate could find in which to post the English response.

We don't get translations of everything, though. For example, there was a recent post about the adjustments to Dynamis. Something about "adjustments were made with the intention of increasing the supply of ancient currency, but it may have increased the supply more than intended, so we're looking into the situation." We haven't heard anything about that on the EN side, yet, as far as I've seen?

[Delvish]

For traditional purposes, I believe the cap should remain at 99. Also, while the JA/JT additions are enticing, doing so would inevitably set us up for disappointment because of the key JA that would inevitably get cut from sub jobs. Abilities like composure would just be too powerful and would have to be mitigated or removed, resulting in more complaining.

JT would not be removed because they have not been thus far. This means SCH would become the primary mage sub job given the extra stratagem reduction and SAM or DNC (building flourish) would be a primo sub as well for melee. It does not promote that level of diversity that FFXI does so promote and gets us in the same predicament as the NIN condition we used to have. Stick to tradition, and I can practically guarantee a content fan base.

[Abithra]

I actually like the idea of only one level 100 :x

[Asymptotic]

JT would not be removed because they have not been thus far.

I think you mean JA.
And go sub WHM or NIN and try to use Afflatus: Solace, Afflatus: Misery, Yonin, or Innin.
You can't use them.
Why?
Because SE removed them from subjob use.

[SpankWustler]

I doubt it would take a large amount of time for the Development Bros to balance things out for a level 100 cap rather than the planned level 99 cap, but I'm sure it would take some amount of time. They'll have to send an intern to fight the Flying Spaghetti Code Monster with armaments of a promise for less-miserable employment and some barely readable notes by former staff members after things go horribly wrong, after all.

Even if it just takes one workday to make Super-Jump, Composure, & Associates not usable when subbed and two days to slay the Flying Spaghetti Code Monster that inexplicably appears, I'd prefer they spend those three workdays on something else.

I'll happily welcome the 20 HP and MP, sub-job benefits, and slight level correction that I'll gain with level 100. I don't expect anything else that I wouldn't get with a level cap of 99 to come with it, though, so I'd just as soon the Development Bros. stick with their current plan.

That, and gaining one level on a half-dozen to dozen sub-jobs will hurt my wiener. That's an awful lot of warping while someone else kills stuff for my Dominion Ops or Grounds of Valor pages.

[Siiri]

Another vote to keep it at 99. I also do not trust SE's ability to balance the lvl 50 abilities.

[Ophannus]

Honestly, If RDM was to get Cure V, they would have to give it to PLD as well, considering the level range of cures. Doesn't seem right. RDM wasn't designed to be a main healer and we know this. We forced it into that position and neglected its enfeebling for years. SCH on the other hand should at least gain access to the spell.

Except RDM learns Cures before SCH. SCH learns Cure spells at the same level that PLD does. So if anything RDM ought to get it before SCH. SCH could/should only have it during Addendum.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Except RDM learns Cures before SCH. SCH learns Cure spells at the same level that PLD does. So if anything RDM ought to get it before SCH. SCH could/should only have it during Addendum.

Exactly!

I don't know where people get it from that SCH should get it either first, or be the only one to get it when they learn it quite a few levels later than RDM.

[Winrie]

f it all, level 100 or die. Classic action

[Alhanelem]

I'd like to see the cap remain at 99 myself. There are too many balance issues with raising it to 100Balance issues that are easily addressed by restricting/nerfing certain abilities on subjob, as they have in the past. Balance argument holds no water.

At level 100, easy prey to 75 mobs should STOP FARKIN AGGROING.

[Miroku_Asura]

I say 100.

[Mirage]

Level 100/50 please, and unlock the exclusive abilities for nin and whm so we can use them when subbing those jobs. In case of imbalance, just reduce the effectiveness of them. Afflatus solace/misery could be kept as strong as it is though, the only thing that would do would be to make rdm and sch more viable healers.

[Runespider]

99 or 100, makes no difference at all. They will nerf subbed things that cause issues anyway.

As for 1 job at 100, people will hate that idea.. Look at merits now, they already kinda do that and everyone wants them to increase the amount of combat/magic merits more and more.

[Fredjan]

I'd vote for 100. Obviously, this would require them to edit the graphical display of people's jobs through searching/linkshell listings, as there's only room for two-digit numbers as things are.

[Edit]

99 may feel like a tradition, but who cares? Quite a few FF-based games have had level 100 as a cap, they just weren't as frequent as level 99 caps.

@ RDM
Level 80 cap was the biggest slap to Red Mages in general (as I had hoped they would adjust Convert's potency subbed, however, I didn't really care in the end - jobs I normally /RDM'd on at 75 I still do at 95, it didn't make me sub it on White Mage for example). Composure is hardly 'game-breaking' compared to Convert. Most people'd just activate it, cast the spells they want, and cancel it - I did the same on RDM until AF3+2 came into the picture. I do think if Composure remained level 50 after such an update that its effectiveness should be adjusted subbed to the point where it would remain more useful on RDM main regardless of AF3+2 possession.

I think the prime reason they left Convert without an adjustment is that /RDM on its own doesn't have any other way to help manage MP besides that + Refresh. Refresh alone would not be worth subbing RDM for (compared to stuff like SCH sub). Aka: They wanted to encourage the support job option.

@ SCH
I won't lie here... part of the reason why I'd vote 100 is to gain a 3rd stratagem charge /SCH. I've always been a pro-/SCH player (especially on WHM even now), and it'd be a welcomed change for those subbing it.

[Reiterpallasch]

I'm all for 100/50 myself, just because it's a nice even set of numbers and looks nicer. That and it's not the first time they've done it. Or 255. Ya know, because it can apparently or some shit.

As for the "WAAAAH having SJ stuff at 50 will unbalance the game QQ" crowd, lvl 75 -> 80 says hi.

[Showmo]

Would like level 100; mainly for the 1 extra level correction & extra skill level increases. Would give more defense & attack power regardless of what our sub jobs will get for level 50.

[Mightyg]

100. More sub job benefits/options is never a bad thing.

[Linku]

I'd say 100/50. Looks a lot nicer than 99/49. 100 seems more complete or something. I don't know, I just like even numbers.

[Swords]

@ OP: I can get behind the idea somewhat, but I think a simpler route would be to just allow the job to gain access to new abilities and spells after completing the citadel. Because two of the problems we run into with the class changes is Thief which changed to Ninja and Fighter(Warrior) into Knight(Paladin) in FF1, and just seems like it would open up an unnecessary can of problems to deal with where the advanced class already exists and has it's own set of spells.

But to add onto your idea, each job that completes the Citadel gains access to a new Job Trait (can be a different trait for each job, or make you pick and chose one from a list that will work for all jobs like Divine Might Earrings). Some examples of the traits could be.

PLD: Stalwart Devotion- Grants a defense and magic defense bonus to the player and all defensive job abilities/magic spells cast on them.
DRK: Raging Bloodlust- Grants a Attack Bonus to the player and all Attack boosting JA/spells.
WAR: Crippling Blow- Occasionally lower a enemies defense when landing a critical hit.
WHM: Healer's Devotion- Single target cure spells are granted an additional healing bonus.
BLM: Lost Magicks- Damaging spells will occasionally gain a very powerful boost when cast.
SCH: Wisdom of the Sage- Lowers the overall cost of spells.
RDM: Lore of the Field- Gives an elemental affinity bonus depending on the day/weather/enspells used while engaged in combat.
BST: Tamer's Trade: Increased bond with the pets makes them more willing to give their lives for you increasing enmity generation for the pet.

But that's just a few ideas I had on the top of my head.

Far as pick or choosing 99 and 100, I'm kind of mixed about it. On one hand it opens a world of possibilities for subjobs, but at the same time many jobs stop gaining good abilities at 50 taking away whatever benefits they had over other jobs away.

[MDenham]

I do think if Composure remained level 50 after such an update that its effectiveness should be adjusted subbed to the point where it would remain more useful on RDM main regardless of AF3+2 possession.Would you rather see them have /RDM Composure give double duration but the same recast increase, or the same (tripled) duration but more of a recast increase?

(I'm asking mostly because I highly doubt they'd both reduce duration and increase recast further, based on how Accession/Manifestation ended up from /SCH.)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Can't believe people can't see how granting composure at Sub-Job level would completely kill RDM, RDM's AF3 Armour wouldn't stop that.

[Amador]

No one is saying RDM sub is gonna get composure. There are a ton of jobs that have job abilities restricted. Why are you all still hanging on that?

It's preference of level: 99 or 100. Get it straight. It's not about what makes RDM and what doesn't. If all that makes RDM is composure then RDM isn't crap and should simply be deleted off the game. Stop crying about it and stick to the subject of 99 or 100. It's not about balancing, the people who get PAID TO BALANCE WILL DO THEIR JOB. SIMPLE. This is not a RDM forum post on the topic of DO WE WANT TO SHARE COMPOSURE OR NOT.

Simple. Simple. Simple. 100!

[Seha]

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

[Seriha]

Can't believe people can't see how granting composure at Sub-Job level would completely kill RDM, RDM's AF3 Armour wouldn't stop that.

I'm not seeing it, to be honest. Okay, so anyone /RDM could Haste, Refresh, Stoneskin, and Phalanx themselves for triple duration. From what I've seen trying to Accession spells off myself, others will still wear off normally. Others also won't have the +2 set to nearly double durations. Admittedly, I'm curious what would happen with SCHs using Perpetuance (additive or multiplicative?), but they'd still want to be using Sublimation over Refresh since its buff. Otherwise, I doubt the ACC bonus would revolutionize the gameplay of BLMs, SCHs, SMNs, or WHMs. Ya know, rabid community perception of mage melee 'n all.

Part of me is glad Refresh and Convert weren't nerfed in any way as a sub. I always felt them over-hyped and one of the continually used excuses to not give RDM any attention over the years. Others gaining access to it killed that monopoly and finally allowed people to start looking more toward the issues the job had and still does. You'll find plenty of disagreement on what should and shouldn't be addressed, sure, but the job should be a hell of a lot more than an MP battery.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

Don't forget Elemental Celerity which unlike JA's traits are never blocked.

[Winrie]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

Erm.. people that like the job would care, not everyone goes BAA!!!!

[Swords]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol.

Trying to make one problem worse isn't exactly the best thing to advertise, the main problem with RDM is most everything we have to our name was/is under 50. While most jobs got progressively more new JA, Spells, Traits as levels went up RDM for the most part had stopped growing or fell far behind in those areas. Taking the last thing they really have that differentiates them from other jobs in a group setting is just putting another nail in the coffin, but what do other jobs care about jobs they don't play as long as it benefits them right? I'm sure the WHM community wouldn't nerdrage if heaven forbid they ever got Cure V and things changed back to the days of the little pink bird parties.


And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

The whole point of hitting 100 would be because of those JA/traits/spells gained from the level 50 SJ, otherwise there's really no point to this discussion.

[Amador]

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

They'll never have Esuna, Aflatus Solace, Aflatus Misery, Divine Seal Na-spell-ga, Yagrush, Null Damage Bar Spells, Repose, Cure VI, Curaga V Curaga IV. All of which make WHM a prime healer.

Will they ever get Cure V? More than likely, will it be soon? Maybe.

Level 100 offers a lot more than 3-4 Abilities people may or may not use. In the end, even if 1 or 2 classes decided to sub RDM for Composure so what? It doesn't mean anything at all. Level 100 means more combat, and offensive combat skill points, more stats, more hp, more mp, more level correction bonus, potentially ROLE DEFINING JOB TRAITS AND ABILITIES that would seem REAL official at 100. The introduction of the new merit system. I mean, none of this kills a job.

It's a baseless discussion, and people here crying wolf. RDM has a huge value in the situations it's applicable in. It's a great back-up support job. It can enfeeble, cure, deal damage, and buff. As a whole, RDM is insanely powerful.

Again, it's just a preference of 99 vs 100. It's not about worrying about balancing, how can you balance an unfinished product? You can't.

[Swords]

WHM was superior back at 75 too, but that didn't stop WHM's from having their job literally overhauled in order to take back their spot as main healer from RDM. Of course RDM had several things going for them back then that no one else had, Refresh, Convert, Cure III/IV could heal a respectable amount of hp, solid enfeebles, and I suppose you could count Composure for increased buff duration since it came in shortly before the cap rise.

However, as the levels rose RDM stopped getting party support spells and cures, Enfeebles were severely hindered in new content due to immunity and flat resistance rates (Yes Enfeebling is stupidly broken atm), and what support we were used for at 75 fell into other jobs laps from subbing RDM. So essentially everything that was defining RDM fell behind or was given to everyone else, anything new that we've received has mostly been self buffs which does not do much for a group except our melee ability (which many are vehemently against though SE seems content on going in that direction).

[Amador]

I can't really agree with this. RDM has always had it's place 75 and above. RDM was the original solo job if you took it to those lengths.

To this date, what has RDM gained? The ability to further enfeeble and destroy a monster with devastating magic such as T4. There really is not reason why a RDM shouldn't have a place in group oriented event. It still plays it's roles, and is respected in them. If your linkshell and or the player base you associate with feel that RDM isn't a requirement or a needed instrument in their strategy then that's simply choice and custom strategy.

WHM was always great. It simply obtained greater abilities which emphasized it's role as a healer. RDM is a multi-role job, always has been always will be. Which is why the devs can even justify crap like Temper and En-Spells II. Simple.

The only enfeebles that were removed were enfeebles such as Gravity and things that could contribute to 3 hour fights even being possible. This was a smart and tactical move, no one enjoyed walking up to ANYWHERE that was reputable for gear/drops and have to wait 3 hours for the kill, simply to get a TOD. The hindering of those abilities wasn't just RDM directed. Plenty of other jobs suffered too. BLM, BLU, SCH.

End result is, RDM has it's practicality and usefulness. Which will be greatly emphasized in the future. No reason to harp on "But we won't be unique or as cool anymore" pointless, and baseless.

[Economizer]

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content while subbing Scholar for Light Arts.

No serious White Mage subs Red Mage.

Sub Scholar means B+ Enhancing, cheaper spells, stratagems, and faster recasts.

If you need massive amounts of MP, guess what? Light Arts plus a Refresh source will trump Convert. And I don't mean Refresh I, because Sublimation matches that. If Refresh sources from gear don't provide enough of a kick, you remember this is a MMO, and invite someone else to your party to augment this. I wonder what job is a great way to lessen MP strain on the White Mage while providing more MP to the White Mage?

There is no reason why White Mage being able to sub for Composure would obsolete Red Mage, just as there is no reason a White Mage would sub Red Mage in a party position on "hard" content, aside from not having Scholar leveled.

If I was a Red Mage worried about being obsoleted by White Mage, I'd worry way more about a White Mage getting more stratagems from sub Scholar then Composure from sub Red Mage as the result of a 100/50 cap. Shoot, I'd be more worried about Convert, but even that is a joke compared to sub Scholar.

[MDenham]

If you need massive amounts of MP, guess what? Light Arts plus a Refresh source will trump Convert.Obvious exception: when you need massive amounts of MP for individual, short fights, but you'll have at least ten minutes between those fights. (Though if you're somehow burning through ~2.5k MP in under two minutes, your problem is probably the people you're doing things with.)

[Mightyg]

There's no doubt that Red Mage could use some more abilities to flesh out it's party role. However healing probably shouldn't be the focus of those adjustments. I think some modest all around buffs to melee, offensive spells, and party buffs could go a long ways. They could use some unique spells and traits as well. magic/melee crit chance based on int/mnd or something along those lines. Possibly a nuke that strikes with every element. or a trait that grants up to 25 tp for each enfeeble landed. trait that doubles spike damage and effect on shield block.

[Amador]

this isn't how to make rdm stronger. vote 99 or 100 or gtfo.

100.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

this isn't how to make rdm stronger. vote 99 or 100 or gtfo.

100.

Like it has the authority to tell anyone to do so? Since when were you made a moderator? Oh, you wasn't! Okay, then how about you GTFO, Thank you very much!

[Amador]

It puts the lotion on it's skin? What? Didn't Clarice kill you already?

[Winrie]

Daniel, pot kettle black. Topic is vote lvl 99 or 100 not rdm or job adjustments, so don't tell someone to gtfo for following camate's question, now thank you very much~

[Arcon]

Like it has the authority to tell anyone to do so? Since when were you made a moderator? Oh, you wasn't! Okay, then how about you GTFO, Thank you very much!

A moderator has already told you this. To quote them:
•Please keep all posts on topic. Making off topic posts will only cause confusion and miscommunication. When you create a new thread, please do not mix multiple unrelated topics into a single thread. Instead, please create an individual thread based on each topic.

It is the very first rule of these forum. The authority has spoken. Stfu.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yawn! I already voted anyway. 100 if they block Composure, 99 if they don't.

Querying is exactly in the rules of this topic and forum in fact, I'm not going to just vote blindly like some people. If they wanted only an answer of Yes or No they'd have done a poll like the "What platform do you play on."

I only copied him in saying GTFO, since that in itself adds nothing.

[Kristal]

100.

Most of the reasons for my choice have already been mentioned:
* Level increases of 5
* Level 100 unlocks lvl 50 subjob opportunities
* 99 cap is not a rule written in stone, and has been 'broken' before if not outright ignored.
* Interface limitations are not an issue. 5 new jobs could be added, adding another digit or a creative solution (** or M) shouldn't a problem either.

Another I'd like to add:
* FFXI crafting skills are capped at level 100.

[Economizer]

Interface limitations are not an issue. 5 new jobs could be added, adding another digit or a creative solution (** or M) shouldn't a problem either.

I think the interface limitation thing has more to do with the seacom interface, whereas adding five new jobs would have more to do with the PS2 hard drive space issues. The interface limitation thing would be a lot easier to solve either way. Anyways, this is not what I wanted to ask, this is:

Why the letter M?

[Kristal]

Why the letter M?

M for Master(y/ed) ofcourse :D

Or perhaps C (roman numeral for 100).

[Economizer]

Yeah, I was thinking C would make more sense. I think SE said something in the original Japanese post about using Stars for it or something, but my memory of it is clouded by the poor machine translation.

Even cooler then stars or something like that would be either two zeros (could cause troubles though) or even better, it being blank, but again, this could possibly cause troubles.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah, I was thinking C would make more sense. I think SE said something in the original Japanese post about using Stars for it or something, but my memory of it is clouded by the poor machine translation.

Even cooler then stars or something like that would be either two zeros (could cause troubles though) or even better, it being blank, but again, this could possibly cause troubles.

I like the star idea, that's used in a lot to indicate mastery.

[Seriha]

Unfortunately, it won't apply if they ever decide to raise the crap again. Just stick to numbers.

[darkhorror]

I like 100 cap, just seems like a better number. Won't really change the game any ether, as it's just one level. It will give a couple more subjob items. But I don't see anything spectacular.

[HimuraKenshyn]

100 please

[Asymptotic]

Daniel, pot kettle black. Topic is vote lvl 99 or 100 not rdm or job adjustments, so don't tell someone to gtfo for following camate's question, now thank you very much~

There has to be some corollary of Godwin's Law involving FFXI forums and Red Mage bickering.

[kewitt]

Crafts are all 100, Level 100 for jobs kind of seems where it should be.

As for all the issues with subjob and stuff... they threw that all when they raised the cap from 75.

Also with 100 cap at least the RA/EX octave club wouldn't be totally worthless only mainly useless!
Cheer for 96 DRK to use there octave clubs!

[tyrantsyn]

I say 100, also I'd like to add in that my main is rdm. And have no problem losing composure as a sub. No job could ever touch a full emp set and added gear on spell duration when subbing rdm. And I do so hate being on blm and having my refresh run out so fast. Not to mention the idea of picking up and extra stratagem and stona on /sch sounds great to me.
Go go 100

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I say 100, also I'd like to add in that my main is rdm. And have no problem losing composure as a sub. No job could ever touch a full emp set and added gear on spell duration when subbing rdm. And I do so hate being on blm and having my refresh run out so fast. Not to mention the idea of picking up and extra stratagem and stona on /sch sounds great to me.
Go go 100

SCH with Composure = RDM Death.

[tyrantsyn]

SCH with Composure = RDM Death.

Is it not dead already? Some tend to think so, seems to me no ones ever happy with it. And there's some great idea's out there on how to improve it "some that I've seen from you". The rdm community is about as divided as they come tho and it's hard to tell if the job will ever be what every one wants from it.

[Yugl]

Composure was never a reason to choose RDM over any class for PT activity anyways. Extended buffs only affects your mage becomes. It seems WHM is sufficient in this era and that all other healers lack the same potential. The benefit, given these facts, is not going to change the balance of power.

[The_Capn]

Level 100 please

[noodles355]

Being a Rng, Drg and Rdm (among other jobs), playing and loving all three jobs I will say:

I have no trouble whatsoever with other jobs getting composure if I can get Super Jump on Ranger.

100 all the way.

All I ask is that if the cap does end up being 100, that our level is shown as "★★" if we're at the cap. This so much. THF★★/NIN50.

[esoR]

100

keep composure rdm only so the job is not completely outclassed on every level..
(also to shut up rdm whiners)

RNG★★/DRG50 yes please

[Arcalimo]

easy.
100, so you can give the final blow to rdms by giving composure to everyone... and so you can add a new HNM that spams level 5 death in brazalets mode :)

[Asymptotic]

To be honest, I really don't see why Composure would be so broken/powerful/destructive as a subbable ability. Anyone feel like enlightening me?

[Kristal]

Is it not dead already? Some tend to think so, seems to me no ones ever happy with it. And there's some great idea's out there on how to improve it "some that I've seen from you". The rdm community is about as divided as they come tho and it's hard to tell if the job will ever be what every one wants from it.

It's not dead, but SE devs have been systematically destroying any need for the job. Almost everything that RDMs considered their own has been given to others. All we got left is a few merit spells that were deemed too powerfull for RDM to unlock them all, and Composure. RDM-unique Addle was given to WHM for some mind-boggling reason...

So it's simply getting to the point where I could care less if SE takes away the last piece of uniqueness of the job. Let the other jobs have their cake AND eat it, I'm storing my chapeau on my mannequin and go PUP full time.

[Xilk]

I think the combination of abilities between the wide range of jobs and subjobs is one of the best aspects of this game. I would be in favor of having level 100 be the cap instead of level 99.

The level 50 abilities and traits on a support job would offer more interesting combinations. This is exactly why I was so excited when the level cap up from 75 was announced. "Yay! what subjob combinations will be possible now? I can't wait to try it out!"

[Arcon]

To be honest, I really don't see why Composure would be so broken/powerful/destructive as a subbable ability. Anyone feel like enlightening me?

It's not. People are just bringing up random things to bitch about. Composure isn't gonna make any job more powerful, and it's not gonna make RDM any more or less desired. It's a non-issue. Stratagems (and possibly a new Store TP tier) are the only things even worth mentioning at Lv50. And possibly Elemental Siphon from /SMN, but who goes /SMN these days, unless maybe some very special circumstances.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

To be honest, I really don't see why Composure would be so broken/powerful/destructive as a subbable ability. Anyone feel like enlightening me?

Who said it was too powerful? It's RDM's only remaining worthwhile ability. They already gave Convert and Refresh away giving Composure away would be a joke, especially when they blocked both WHM and NIN abilities.

[Rorald]

lets make it 100 so we can get 50 on our subs, this will be our last time we level up in ffxi so lets get those 5 levels.

[Mirage]

lets make it 100 so we can get 50 on our subs, this will be our last time we level up in ffxi so lets get those 5 levels.

Or will it?

[Dais]

I would love for the cap to be 100. Not only is it a nice visual to see 100/50 rather than 99/49, but I also feel super jump as a subjob ability would make it easier to manage the ever-increasing enmity we are gathering from our equally ever-increasing damage output. I'm not sure the enmity system was designed to handle the kind of damage players are dishing out now, and without going into an enmity discussion better left to it's own thread, super jump would provide away to regulate spikes in enmity.
There are also other considerations like the addition of magic attack bonus 3 to /blm makes it the premier nuking subjob over once again /rdm and divine veil makes white mage a better sub for healing over /sch. It just seems like it would bring a sense of identity back to some of the subjobs.

[Economizer]

There are also other considerations like the addition of magic attack bonus 3 to /blm makes it the premier nuking subjob over once again /rdm and divine veil makes white mage a better sub for healing over /sch. It just seems like it would bring a sense of identity back to some of the subjobs.

Divine Veil, much like Composure, isn't going to affect anyone's reasoning for sub job selection. It is tied to Divine Seal casts at ten minutes for one, which kind of kills the usability.

I think the only thing that would bring White Mage back to being the preferred healing sub for most situations would be if Afflatus abilities were made available while /WHM (but nerfed). Considering how limiting job abilities altogether is a bad idea (except perhaps Call Wyvern) this would be a great idea. If the job abilities would be too powerful, like Afflatus would be, or Meditate, they could get a nerf, and if they wouldn't be overpowered, and would still be more useful for people using it on their main, they get to stay, like Convert or Haste Samba.

[KigenAngelios]

My god I would prefer 100 over 99 not just because it would open up more useable subjobs but it as a number feels more complete than 99, etc. etc.

I WANT LV. 100!

[Avidon]

Every FF game has stopped at 99. Why should XI be any different? I say get it to 99 and be done with it.

100 might be a nice number to look at, all fancy with its snazzy triple digits. I, however, would like to see some continuity within the FF series. Even if the only saving grace is the cap of its levels.

Final Fantasy VIII went to Level 100. Just saying. :)

[Unleashhell]

Level 100 is my vote.

Think while we are at it we can make items stack to 100 instead of 99? Never understood why you gotta trade 99+1 dynamis currency when you should be able to just trade 100.

[Goliathreborn]

100, more power is never bad

[Halycon]

i'm all for level 100 myself.

[Jamesy]

why not 1 level 100 job that you can choose as like your actual main job and rest 99?

[Amador]

The original dev response from Camante stated why. It's a bad idea that would simply lead to the player base requesting for more level 100 access versus 1 single job.

There is always a need for different jobs in FF11. There is never a time when one person is ever on a single job for every single thing they do. While there are alternative methods on further developing peer individuality in FF it's something that will not come yet.

As the OP mentioned in this thread, the ability to unlock something like advanced 2 jobs such as: White Wizard, Black Wizard, Red Wizard, Blue Wizard, Knight, Master, Dragon Knight and multiple other jobs. At this point it's fairly irrelevant.

They want to focus simply on a key aspect of the current level cap which is 99 or 100. They want to avoid only 1 at 100, due to the soon to come bickering and want for more job availability at 100. So it's basically a subject they only want to touch once and be done with it.

So, again Vote 100 ;D It's the best way to go. If you're a crafter and cap was 99 on crafts ... you'd be mad. So mad. thankfully it isn't, because there is no issue with 11 ever being 100. Since the data already has monsters which exceed 100, crafts which exceed 100. It'd be silly for the cap to not be 100.

[MDenham]

The original dev response from Camante stated why. It's a bad idea that would simply lead to the player base requesting for more level 100 access versus 1 single job.And yet people complained about the possibility of having more than one craft at 100?

Um. As a playerbase, we are a most confusing people.

[Amador]

I'm sure they're looking into expanding the crafting system in the future towards allowing you have more than one craft at 100 aside from Fishing and potentially Synergy.

Till then, it's a null subject. The idea of only one job at 100, rest 99 is a step backwards. Just as much of a step backwards as keeping only one craft at 100, the rest at 60 aside Fishing and Synergy. The reason this was implemented as such, is because 11 was originally based off an ideal AH system in which to keep balance, they allowed for certain tiers/levels only in crafting. However this is quite old at this point, and does deserve it's own revamping in another thread.

[Economizer]

why not 1 level 100 job that you can choose as like your actual main job and rest 99?

Because this is Final Fantasy XI, the game where you didn't have to have five characters to do five things. Job changing on the fly is one of the defining features of the game, an no offense, but it would be incredibly stupid to move more and more towards a game where you can't be everything with enough effort, especially since it is one of the best features of FFXI.

[Randwolf]

And yet people complained about the possibility of having more than one craft at 100?

Um. As a playerbase, we are a most confusing people.
Crafting is a little different. It's not like levels where everyone will most likely get a job to 100, if they offered it.

Crafting is all about gil, competition, and a closed market system. Crafters tend to hate anything that may affect them adversely. Most crafters define that as an any change at all to crafting.

[Jamesy]

so let me get this straight you'd complain your only allowed 1 lvl 100 if square enix made it so? you think 1 level difference really changes things by that much? if anything its something square enix would actually do since they have done it before case ex. crafting

[Neisan_Quetz]

Level correction, skills, subjobs. It's not huge but it's worth it over being able to dodge Level 5 Petrify.

[Arcon]

so let me get this straight you'd complain your only allowed 1 lvl 100 if square enix made it so?

I would.


you think 1 level difference really changes things by that much?

It's more about consistency and not being able to do something someone else can. If you decide to have a mage 100, you won't get 5 extra Store TP from /SAM on your melees, which could reflect heavily on your gear choices. So others would be able to get what they want easier than you, and it may, in fact, be impossible at 99.

[Camate]

The development team looked over everyone’s opinions from both those who preferred level 99 and those who preferred level 100, and as a result of their discussions they have decided to keep the max level at 99.

[Zumi]

What if when you got to level 99 you could delevel yourself back to level 1 and then go back up to 99 again but the 2nd time you do it you are like twice as strong.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The development team looked over everyone’s opinions from both those who preferred level 99 and those who preferred level 100, and as a result of their discussions they have decided to keep the max level at 99.

Probably best.

[CrystalWeapon]

I have a subtle request that would keep xi in tradition with the other FF games. Let our hp easily cap at 9999 at level 99 through the use of gear. I'd also like to do 9999 per melee swing once maxed out. I know you can brew but you could do this naturally in the other games in the series w/o the aid of item boosts. Not asking for anything too overpowered.

If you think I'm being serrious, you don't know me at all.

[Draylo]

The development team looked over everyone’s opinions from both those who preferred level 99 and those who preferred level 100, and as a result of their discussions they have decided to keep the max level at 99.

lol, everyone says "I would like lvl 100". Dev's discuss it, "okay we're keeping cap at 99"

[Airget]

Ya exactly where did they pull out the answer from XD it seems to me they just don't want to increase it to 100. They could just be honest with us and say they don't want to take the time to adjust the search function to make it search from 1-99 to 1-100 since ever since the search function was available you have always been able to search up to 99. At least from as far as I can remember XD

[Alhanelem]

"Level 99 is tradition! Don't mess with tradition!"

Gimme a break. It's not a tradition, and even if it was, it's a tradition worth breaking.

[Fredjan]

I am disappointed in the result! But I did expect it.


Ya exactly where did they pull out the answer from XD

As Camate said in his initial post, most JP players preferred 99, while the majority of people in this thread have asked for 100.

Either way, at least this means certain Red Mages will stop complaining about "losing" Composure to people subbing the job, . While I, along with many others, would rather have seen 100 as the final level (I'd rather look at 100/50 than 99/49), it's probably for the best. /shrug.


Gimme a break. It's not a tradition, and even if it was, it's a tradition worth breaking.

Go figure, people didn't complain about the level cap being 75 for years without the slightest hint of being increased because of a "tradition being broken." [I]The level 75 cap didn't exist in any other Final Fantasy game, at least none that I've owned. It was either 99, 100, or it didn't use a level system (in the case of 2, 10, and 13). I can't speak for other misc. FF games, but in 1 (the later installments, of course) through 14 + the dissidia games, I sure can. A minor exception, in FF4: The After Years, the level cap gradually increased (in each tale, it was 40-45-50 or so) until you were on the final "tale", in which the cap raised to 99.

[Runespider]

I don't think they had any intention to increase it to 100, they only asked our opinion to ignore it.

Adding another number to the code = too much work, the whole thing was kinda stupid to begin with but yeah..takes a little attention away from the real issues i guess?

[Derkaderka]

I vote for 100.

I'm a fan of the OP's proposal though I can understand SE not wanting to implement such a drastic change to the job structure. Letting us take a job to 100 makes sense. The idea that it violates tradition is a stale argument as other posters have pointed out. As for 100 causing major imbalances, we've been on that road since the break past 75, and I'd say for the better given changes in the player base and the age of the game.

If you don't want to be 100, you can always kill yourself a few times and de-level :)

[Zirael]

lol, everyone says "I would like lvl 100". Dev's discuss it, "okay we're keeping cap at 99"

[...]
It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99.[...]
Should've gotten the hint from the start.

[Patrik]

I'd imagine it just didn't seem worth the expense to them to do it. raising the cap from 99 to 100 probably isn't as simple as most of you are thinking. to some extent the max level of 99 has always been in the game (if you search for characters by level, you could search from 1<99 since way back when). So there could be complications raising it to a 3 digit number.

many of you may think that sounds completely stupid, but this is an OLD game. There simply are coding issues like this, not saying they couldn't raise it, but it wouldn't be worth the money they'd need to invest to give us just one level. but i can live without one tiny level... and i can live with lvl 5 petrify never affecting me again XD

[Ashay]

The development team looked over everyone’s opinions from both those who preferred level 99 and those who preferred level 100, and as a result of their discussions they have decided to keep the max level at 99.

That's really terrible. The majority of these posts were pro-Lv.100, so I don't really understand where the data is coming from to keep Lv.99. If it's all based on what the Japanese player community wants, then why even bother asking? It's just kind of ridiculous.

[Amador]

No kidding. Like 11+ pages dedicated towards 100. Then they up and decide 99 is the way to go. May as well change everything else to be 99.

This is clearly an attempt to bring players off of 11 and onto 14.

[Kaych]

The development team looked over everyone’s opinions from both those who preferred level 99 and those who preferred level 100, and as a result of their discussions they have decided to keep the max level at 99.

I like the lvl 99 cap since thats whats been the usual in the other FF games, but I do have to say, there is alot of lvl 50 abilitys I would like to use as a sub job, so I think I would prefer lvl 100 ^_-

[Neisan_Quetz]

No kidding. Like 11+ pages dedicated towards 100. Then they up and decide 99 is the way to go. May as well change everything else to be 99.

This is clearly an attempt to bring players off of 11 and onto 14.

It's not gonna work.

[Amador]

I'd imagine it just didn't seem worth the expense to them to do it. raising the cap from 99 to 100 probably isn't as simple as most of you are thinking. to some extent the max level of 99 has always been in the game (if you search for characters by level, you could search from 1<99 since way back when). So there could be complications raising it to a 3 digit number.

many of you may think that sounds completely stupid, but this is an OLD game. There simply are coding issues like this, not saying they couldn't raise it, but it wouldn't be worth the money they'd need to invest to give us just one level. but i can live without one tiny level... and i can live with lvl 5 petrify never affecting me again XD

No. Level 100 is already in the game. Crafting, Monsters, Combat Skills go over 100. 3 Digit Numbers are present, therefore non issue.

The decision was obviously based off of the JP community. Which if it was that bias, it should of remained a JP only question. I can't wait to see the result of that Platform poll. I bet 80% of JP will be PS2 players, and that will simply spill the beans for simply never, ever seeing anything new in 11.

[Ryanx]

i got an idea what if have a lvl 99 peice of gear that boosts your level to 100 and there is a version for each job but you can only pick to use on 1 job

[Dann]

I wonder what the actual votes were across the board, seems like 90% of this thread was shooting for 100...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Doesn't matter when the Devs only care about the opinion of one side of the boards.

[Coldbrand]

Haha suckers.

[Eradius]

Thanks so much for listening to us dev team!

Starting to feel like the old days again. I wonder why...

[Morier]

You mean the "old days" that so many people cried about wanting back when aby hit? Now they are getting it back and crying about it.

[Kristal]

The devs can read the JP boards by themselves, but they need to wait for the other languages to be translated and transmitted to them, so I wonder if they made the 99/100 decision without waiting for the input from the non-JP players...

[Ashay]

Why not just run a survey on PlayOnline asking whether players want Lv.99 or 100? I think that would be the best way in the end, not just tallying up posts on the forum. A lot of people don't even use the forum because they play on consoles for XI. That would be the only conclusive way to see whether or not people really want Lv.99 or 100.

[HimuraKenshyn]

They forgot to announce a change to level 5 petrify to level 3 >.> it's gonna happen no way are they leaving level 5 petrify as useless at endgame.....

[Coldbrand]

I like how the 100s assume they were the only ones to vote on the NA forums.

[Amador]

Are you serious Coldbrand? Read the thread. All of it. Tally it yourself. God, Galkas.

[Swords]

Why not just run a survey on PlayOnline asking whether players want Lv.99 or 100? I think that would be the best way in the end, not just tallying up posts on the forum. A lot of people don't even use the forum because they play on consoles for XI. That would be the only conclusive way to see whether or not people really want Lv.99 or 100.

It wouldn't be accurate. People would go out of their way to create multiple accounts to alter the final outcome, and even if they did it like the platform survey SE did on POL a few weeks back many people have multiple accounts.

[kewitt]

It wouldn't be accurate. People would go out of their way to create multiple accounts to alter the final outcome, and even if they did it like the platform survey SE did on POL a few weeks back many people have multiple accounts.

Like any share holder, The more you own the more what you say counts.
If you have more then one account, you get more then one vote.
Keep vote to playonline ID active for a min of 60 days. Problem solved about making a bunch of addication accounts to swing the vote.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Who is going out of their way to influence an online vote for a MMO... This isn't Florida people.

[Varazslo]

I would like to see some sort of job advancement (not merits) mission/quest/battle once we hit level 99. This is an idea that while similar to Final Fantasy I's job upgrades, but would be different.

FFXI's AF1 armor mentions alternate names (or titles) for the jobs we play as, which is more or less a title that's said but not really done anything with.
Black Mage = Wizard
Red Mage = Warlock
etc.

In FFI you were able to advance your job to an upgraded version which granted new spells and abilities. e.g.
Black Wizard got new spells, Warrior became Knight and gained access to low tier White Magic and able to equip all weapons and armor.

So basically, tl;dr:
I am suggesting a new job advancement system for Level 99 jobs that indicate mastery of a job. You would have to complete a challenging (but not impossible) quest in a new dungeon [The Citadel] and fight a final boss in order to earn the right to your new job title.

Once completed, you would gain access to powerful new spells and abilities earned via Trial of the Magians or story-based quests. Subjobs would be disabled (or very gimped) on the "new jobs" in order to maintain game balance.

Black Mage => Black Wizard (WIZ)
White Mage => Devout (DVT)
Red Mage => Warlock (WLK)
etc.

Feel free to add to this.

How did this thread get so far off from the OPs post? I think the original idea was awesome. I'd like to see some epic solo battle to break the next limit cap that actually tests your skill, instead of the ridiculous errand-boy quests we've gotten thus far. When you do break the cap I think the job name change would be awesome. If the final cap is to be 99, then the limit break at 95 should grant you a new job-title (black wizard, warlock, etc.) and I know I've already seen discussion about a 3rd tier on merits, but the OPs idea of questable skills/spells would be far more challenging and gratifying imho. Or, even save the job name change for when all of the quests have been completed.

[kewitt]

How did this thread get so far off from the OPs post? I think the original idea was awesome. I'd like to see some epic solo battle to break the next limit cap that actually tests your skill, instead of the ridiculous errand-boy quests we've gotten thus far. When you do break the cap I think the job name change would be awesome. If the final cap is to be 99, then the limit break at 95 should grant you a new job-title (black wizard, warlock, etc.) and I know I've already seen discussion about a 3rd tier on merits, but the OPs idea of questable skills/spells would be far more challenging and gratifying imho. Or, even save the job name change for when all of the quests have been completed.

I personally always thought that the maat limit break fight should have been per job.
IE you had to beat maat as said jobs and only that job could go past 70.

This would insure you had a clue what you where doing at 75 with that job.
I don't know how many people I know that leveled whm just to beat maat.

[Swords]

This would insure you had a clue what you where doing at 75 with that job.
I don't know how many people I know that leveled whm just to beat maat.

Ahh, the glory days where Maat was at his finest. The mere mention of him to any RDM made them shiver if not wet themselves, for many of them had met with his Asuran Fists of Doom on an intimate basis and still retain nightmares of his hellish fists of fury.

Translation: Well let's just say alot of "Fisting" was involved.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Maat was weak, I actually lost my first fight from time out not death, AF didn't break SS first time then hit for 200. It was more about sleep landing then anything, or just not caring and opening with CS.

[Swords]

I didn't really have trouble with him either back before the initial nerf, but I did hear an endless stream of stories about folks who were 0/30 on him just to give up and go defeat him on other jobs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

One of the few people I actually read complaining about the fight said don't nuke in Wind Staff use Mythic wand so yea...

[FrankReynolds]

I personally always thought that the maat limit break fight should have been per job.
IE you had to beat maat as said jobs and only that job could go past 70.

This would insure you had a clue what you where doing at 75 with that job.
I don't know how many people I know that leveled whm just to beat maat.

Because getting a lucky steal proves you know how to play thief, using a ton of meds and chainspelling wind spells is a really popular endgame technique for red mages, and punching stuff with hundred fists up makes you a pro monk?

[Raxiaz]

RE: 99 or 100 level cap.
Keep 99. 100 is too OP for this game. And RDMs would whine because their only niche - Composure - would be compromised, assuming you don't restrict its use when /RDM. 99 is just right as the level cap for this game... I don't want to see 100. And I thought this was already addressed beforehand that player levels couldn't exceed 2 digit places... That's neither here nor there though.

With that said, I like the idea of "job mastery" for main jobs. I always thought it would be pretty nifty to get a star next to each capped job under the status menu to symbolize that you've "mastered" it. For all jobs it would include having all rated skills on the main job capped, and for mages it would include that you have all spells learned for the job. I think it'd be cool, but I doubt SE would go so far as to code so many checks for a little graphic to appear next to each job, considering they won't change one digit in the range for certain JAs... neither here nor there though. :P

[Seriha]

Who is going out of their way to influence an online vote for a MMO... This isn't Florida people.

I wouldn't put it past certain overly angry RDMs... :P

[Spiritmage]

Camate, I'd like to make a request if I may; If this decision was influenced by all sources from the forums, could we possibly get some translations form other languages that responded to the 99/100 levels? I have this feeling that the JP forums are a lot more orderly then any of the English forums, all I seem to see here are complaints/insults from everyone who don't seem to understand how much work actually goes into a game. That's all I'm asking, more information about the influence of this decision (and possibly any other big game change/decision so that we're all at least a little bit more in the loop of what's going on).

[Symbiote]

Camate, I'd like to make a request if I may; If this decision was influenced by all sources from the forums, could we possibly get some translations form other languages that responded to the 99/100 levels? I have this feeling that the JP forums are a lot more orderly then any of the English forums, all I seem to see here are complaints/insults from everyone who don't seem to understand how much work actually goes into a game. That's all I'm asking, more information about the influence of this decision (and possibly any other big game change/decision so that we're all at least a little bit more in the loop of what's going on).

What? JP forums more orderly? Go C&P their posts into bablefish or something. I surely hope that SE has been reading more than just this forum.

I applaud them for keeping with 99. Now I don't need to level each sub job 1 more level.

[Karumac]

I'm pretty sure they simply had a discussion on the balance changes this could bring, decided it would make some set of job combinations too much or something and just left it at that.

Also, it's not a coding issue, the engine could handle up to level 255. That has always been the upper limit so that they could have as much head room over their max level cap as they needed.

[Kristal]

RE: 99 or 100 level cap.
Keep 99. 100 is too OP for this game. And RDMs would whine because their only niche - Composure - would be compromised, assuming you don't restrict its use when /RDM. 99 is just right as the level cap for this game... I don't want to see 100. And I thought this was already addressed beforehand that player levels couldn't exceed 2 digit places... That's neither here nor there though.

95 is overpowered compared to 75...

This issue has nothing to do with overpoweredness or balance. 99 > 100 gives only a few additional subjob bonusses, Composure being the wolf in the henhouse and SE could just limit it to RDM main only like they did with the other job's 'special' abilities. 75>95 has brought way more problems then 99>100 would.

It's all about cosmetics. The few English speaking people in favor of 99 are all rejecting 100 due to the cosmetic implications of a 3-digit number.

This game has always been a 5/10 game, and to stop at 99 due to some archaic tradition is a cop-out...

If you prefer 99, you can always stop leveling in a 100 cap game. But if the game is capped at 99, those in favor of 100 are unable to.

[Camate]

Sorry for any miscommunication, but it was brought to my attention that I left out a portion of the original Japanese post that stated that the question asking if you prefer 100 or 99 was based on numerical reasons (higher stats, the big number 100 itself, etc.) and not talking about new abilities or what could/couldn't be used while having a level 50 support job.

It can be assumed Japanese players were basing their opinions off of this, so I apologize that this wasn't properly communicated when asking for your feedback.

[Ophannus]

95-99 is only 4 levels whereas other level caps are 5 levels. This means we will lack an entire level of gained HP/MP/STR/VIT etc..

To compensate for this, while maintaining level 99 cap, can you forward to the devs the idea of making skill gains 10+ per level after 95+. It was +5 per level up to 90, then was increased to +7 for 91-95. For 95->99 make it +10 skill per level and increase the bonus attributes per level by a large amount to make it equivalent of 5 levels worth of stats(not that a few points of each stat make a resounding difference at all really when you break the math down). Consequently, I hope they really add a lot for each job this time, most jobs got 1 job ability/ a few spells and a trait or two if they were lucky 91-95. That was 5 levels. I can imagine how little they might add 96-99. Each job should really get some very powerful abilities by 99. BLM is getting Meteor which I assume will do tremendous AoE damage. To make it fair, please add powerful spells and job abilities to every job. I can see DRG for example only getting something lackluster like a 1 min recast breath that removes poison/blind/paralyze or like DRK getting Aspir II.

[Daniel]

100 is a cooler number than 99, QED

[Amador]

Sorry for any miscommunication, but it was brought to my attention that I left out a portion of the original Japanese post that stated that the question asking if you prefer 100 or 99 was based on numerical reasons (higher stats, the big number 100 itself, etc.) and not talking about new abilities or what could/couldn't be used while having a level 50 support job.

It can be assumed Japanese players were basing their opinions off of this, so I apologize that this wasn't properly communicated when asking for your feedback.

What does this even really mean?

It seems this post simply makes more miscommunication. I for one can't understand it in the slightest. Let's break it up.

You apologize for a portion that you feel was left out. You state this portion is in regards to what the Japanese player base talked as far as: Higher Stats, 100.

Then you state, not talking about new abilities or what could/couldn't be used while having a level 50 Support Job. Are you stating that they were organized to a T regarding 100, and 99. Unlike the English Based forums?

Now, I do believe that we did in fact touch upon the numerical values within this post as to the potential outcome of new level increase.

What I do know, that brought to us a lot of confusion, is how in nearly 13 pages of people voting 100. The choice is made that 99 is the way to go, in your original post you clearly stated, the majority of the JP player base wanted 99. If this was the case why not simply make a post showing the tally if there was ever one to begin with.

It all seems like it was just a tease. That had already been decided, you and or the devs were simply curious about what the english forum wanted? I'm sure you see the backlash this has created for quite a few posters on the English forums. It feels as if little is taken into consideration outside of what the Japanese Player base wants.

That aside, could you potentially answer exactly what you mean by your previous post and or post something more substantial that eliminates the need to ask obvious questions?

[Crawlerbasher]

I like level 99 it as cool as an ice cream with the name 99 (Which oddly enough did not cost 99p)

[noodles355]

Yeah to be honest, I'm getting tired of these "Polls" where you state the victor but provide no data. You are wasting your own and everyone else's time if you wont actually post the results.
Quite why the forum doesn't have a poll feature to start with is anyone's guess. Is it because these "polls" are really just SE pretending they are asking our opinion when in reality they have already made the choice? I bet the dev team would be in trouble if they released a REAL poll where people could see the results if the results went against what they wanted.

These polls are a waste of time if you're not going to share the data. What is it with you guys and not sharing the data? The new jug pet "poll", this "poll", the TH testing data on TH9-TH10... none of these actually mean anything for us. For all we know you're completely ignoring how we vote and are going with what the dev team wanted anyway regardless of what the playerbase wanted. That's really terrible Camate. I for one, and I am sure others will agree, want to see the data. I want to see results. I dont want to be told "X beat Y" without any proof, because it makes me trust SE less and less.

[tyrantsyn]

Sorry for any miscommunication, but it was brought to my attention that I left out a portion of the original Japanese post that stated that the question asking if you prefer 100 or 99 was based on numerical reasons (higher stats, the big number 100 itself, etc.) and not talking about new abilities or what could/couldn't be used while having a level 50 support job.

It can be assumed Japanese players were basing their opinions off of this, so I apologize that this wasn't properly communicated when asking for your feedback.

So what? or opinion's didn't count if we voted based on what we could obtain from sub's or something? Did some one actually nick pick threw all the opinion's and base vote's off of this?

[Alhanelem]

100 is a cooler number than 99, QED
No, it's not.

Any number which has a rounded-down 50% number sucks to be a final level.

[Neisan_Quetz]

99 sucks to be a final level, the end.

[Asymptotic]

I still most definitely prefer 100 still, because it's a cooler number than 99. FFXI level caps have always been divisible by 5, and I'd prefer it to stay that way.

[Bulrogg]

100 <Yes, please.>

[Raxiaz]

I can't believe Camate really asked if people wanted 99 or 100. Of course people are going to want 100, it's a bigger number than 99. There is no logic in choosing 100 over 99 other than "it's better than 99." We can try to take logic and argue that 99 is a more suitable level for the cap, but is it really going to convince SE to stick with 99 when you've got a plethora of "100 <Yes, please.>" comments that mention nothing in support of their decision for why they came to it!? No! It's just mindless posting desiring something more than we should get...

I want level cap 99, I don't want to see level 100 in this game, it's not worth it and really, what's 1 more level? SE just stick with the PS2 limitations on this one, PLEASE...

[Didgist]

Cap was 50 for two years and then 75 for five? I can still remember conversations over the years about how they would never raise the cap beyond 75. There were even people who were offended by the idea, saying it would destroy the balance of the game and the challenges in current and future content.

Would it really be that far off for the level cap to be 200 in five years? I'm sure some people would doubt it still being active at that point. I'm also sure there would be some extremely broken 200/100 combination but i'm not up for the math on that at the moment. We've been playing for nearly half a decade assuming there would be no way to balance even level 80 (NIN/RDM > Vana'diel) and they have balanced game play enough so that it works.

People don't kite solo or use NIN/DRK- RDM/NIN combinations to tank anymore, and those were fairly big parts of endgame play at 75 cap. With the recent adjustments that have removed highly used strategies there is no reason to assume that the cap couldn't eventually be 100/100 200/100 or some other seemingly ridiculous number. It's all in how long this game stays active.

It's like Camate said, one 100 would become two 100s which would become five 100s and so on.

Ah, yes. I vote for 100. Whats the best horrible monster you can think of at 100/50?

[Amador]

Clarity would be nice regarding this. Unless the Dev team has something planned for 99+ and endgame players as far as leveling/meriting goes and how that will be reflected as an accomplishment.

However, right now we're being given an apology, with no reason or any backing to why it's an apology.

It really does sound like, "Hey uh, sorry. It was already decided before we even brought the question to you. I just can't find the right words to say I screwed up in even making the post/comment to begin with.

Clarity would be very welcome, and necessary at this point. It very bluntly, sucks that it's just Case Closed and the only response is: Sorry for miscommunication, JP players talk about Level 100, and ... I just can't even finish that sentence Camante, it's very confusing what you were even trying to state.

[Alhanelem]

The ONLY good thing about level 99 is no more Level 5 Petrify.

[Cesil]

I too wish to see these so called polls >.> Without any data to back it up it seems kind of pointless...

[Boofaceing]

They chose 99, but 99 is the best. Every old school grind game that went mainstream had a cap of 99. 99 was that number. There was no 100. You couldn't exceed 99. I dont know, I always thought it was trippy and they should keep to standards. They probably can only do 99 and thought everyone would think like me so it was pre-determined no matter what anyone said and the Japanese forums are probably saying the same things perhaps, who knows. Maybe they even voted on 100 but their saying that the english forums wanted 99. Isn't that a trip?

[Bulrogg]

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if they post the reasoning behind their choice, it's still feedback.

One reason I voted for 100 is because of my ocd; I like even numbers. Sue me. Will I quit because we're not getting 100? No.

But what I really would have liked to see is the ability to take only one job to 100 to be classified as your main job.

I also liked that one suggestion that at level 100 your level is replaced by two stars.

[Raxiaz]

I could deal with one job to 100, but I would definitely want the ability to change my "mastered" job...

[Amador]

Nothing is wrong with accepting feedback, when it's actually feed back. Accepting a paragraph that makes little to no sense regarding whatever that last post was is something else.

The reasoning behind it isn't what affected a good majority of the people questioning it. It's the fact that it's bias to a JP forum, 90% of us can't read. The information is with held from us, and out of a 13 page thread at that point strongly in the lead for 100, was simply shrugged off and we got a response which stated: JP Forum spoke of level 100, and something. Not about what they would or wouldn't get access to. The end. Decision: 99.

Stop asking for one job to 100 while others remain at 99 also. They already stated at the original Camante post that wouldn't happen. It was about 99 or 100. However, it was really: 99 or, 99. Just let us know how you feel about it. Which we wasted our time doing so, flawlessly. At this point, I think this thread simply deserves clarification, or to be closed.

[DebbieGibson]

99.... 100 sucks

[Camate]

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

[Selzak]

I would prefer 99 regardless.

The only exception would be, maybe for something done in the future, reserving level 100 for only one job (resetting this job to another one would also reset your accumulated experience points between 99 and 100- making you attain that full level when you switch). From this perspective, maybe each job could have a 'super' ability at level 100.

[Absolutezero]

So because people were considering subjobs the devs decided against it? That's just silly. Support jobs are a core aspect of the game after all. I realize many of us may not have the kind of intimate understanding of certain game mechanics that the ffxi math wizards do when they figure out game formulas and the optimum setups, etc, etc, but seriously, who could possibly care more about the "roundness" of lvl 100 than what it would mean for main/sub combinations? It is kind of like a dealership refusing to sell you a car because your decision was basead on price, mpg, safety features, and such instead of whether or not the car was a pretty color.

Then again, I suppose a sub job of 50 really wouldn't have meant much seeing how SE nerfs and locks those JAs anyway.

[Babekeke]

I would prefer 99 regardless.

The only exception would be, maybe for something done in the future, reserving level 100 for only one job (resetting this job to another one would also reset your accumulated experience points between 99 and 100- making you attain that full level when you switch). From this perspective, maybe each job could have a 'super' ability at level 100.

Could still do this at 99 with merits, where choosing to merit the super-ability of 1 job, locks the other 19, similar to raising a craft past 60.

Alternatively, give us a limi on the merits we can use for the 3rd tier, say 50 points to be used across all jobs, so you can either fully merit 1 job, or partially merit several.

[FrankReynolds]

Could still do this at 99 with merits, where choosing to merit the super-ability of 1 job, locks the other 19, similar to raising a craft past 60.

Alternatively, give us a limi on the merits we can use for the 3rd tier, say 50 points to be used across all jobs, so you can either fully merit 1 job, or partially merit several.

Then you will hear things like this:
"You put tier 3 merits into Thief? What a noob! Warrior is way better. All merits in Warrior or GTFO."

[Fredjan]

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

It really is difficult not to consider the possible "bonuses" of having a 100/50 combination besides the extra level and stat bonuses, a lot of jobs get stuff at level 50 so it was part of most of our mindsets I'm sure. Personally, had I realized what was being asked in the first place, I still would've picked 100, even if everything I'd get from a /49 to /50 was just extra stats and no other bonuses due to game balance. It'd fit the 5 level increase theme we've had forever when we've had level cap increases.

I don't know, maybe I'm one of those people who has never wanted to view "99" as a final level in any game - I wasn't really a fan of it across the entire series, except FF8 and the PSP dissidia games (fighting level 150 enemies was fun stuff!).

Although in FF8, the level didn't mean as much as it does in other games as the majority of enemies "reflect" the party's level.

100 always made more sense to me. In that sense, I'd think something should be done to show "mastery" of the job - perhaps via questing, special fight(s), etc - past level 99 (and the accomplishment could result in, I don't know, a star showing by the job? Just random ideas in my head), while retaining that level as the final one. I'd be content with that to be honest.

Basically IMO we should get something unique from obtaining the maximum level that doesn't require getting lucky on a rare/ex drop, getting exp/merits (aka: easy mode), or having more gil than one knows what to do with (getting items at ludicrous prices). We already know to expect something such as Group 3 merits once we're at our final level.

[tyrantsyn]

Sub's can make and break a main job at times, so i'm sure even if you would have mention this from the start, the conversation still would have gone this way. The stat's between 99 to 100 could have never been enough to really sway enough player's to go "1 extra point to my job's main stat plus tiny boost to my hp/mp and a big shinny 100 next to my job title, sure i'd love that." "shaking my head" nah i'd rather have that extra stratagem from /sch with a 50 sub job.

[Psxpert2011]

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.













Can I see this poll and can I make an appeal? Lol!
I decline! =/
A vote from the community vs development team ideas,hmm.
...
What would the DEV team do if there WAS a lv.100? That is the question. 0.0
Maybe the DEV just ran out of FFxi-Fuel. Yeah, that's it!



________________________________________________________



I look forward to leveling my Pld, Sam and Mnk to lv.100! Five more levels to work for instead of just four. One thing though, everyone expects to be at their new level by day 7 after a update and new limitbreak! I would suggest...(just a suggestion), that the exp curve be adjusted differently than before.

It's expected that we'll only need to earn 10K extra exp for the next level than the last, make it a full 100k for each level from 96-99/100. I think that would control the population of those trying to make it to the finish line... or is there a finish line, gwahahahahaaaa~!


100K, on your mark, get set.... GO! >:D

[Mizuharu]

Level 99 cap? YES!


NO MORE LEVEL 5 PETRIFY! Quick! Someone help me prepare it's grave!

[FrankReynolds]

I must be doing the wrong content. In the 7~ years that I have been playing, I have been hit with that move probably 10 times.

[Symbiote]

I must be doing the wrong content. In the 7~ years that I have been playing, I have been hit with that move probably 10 times.
I've only been hit with it by Agas (Sleepga II NM) and Dyna-Xarc eyes(?). Can't remember ever being it with it by anything else. Gotta love knowing that the only things that did it are obsolete, might as well get rid of it.

Good bye Level 5 Petrify. Hello Level 9 Petrify! :)
/em gives hints to the Dev Team.

[Alhanelem]

I wouldn't want lv100 if the only thing it meant was an extra stat point or two and HP/MP. I'd only want it if it meant something new or special at that level.

(Meaning, I want new and special stuff because I want lv100 :p )

[Babekeke]

Then you will hear things like this:
"You put tier 3 merits into Thief? What a noob! Warrior is way better. All merits in Warrior or GTFO."

You're right, this would certainly separate the n00bs from the better players. The n00bs will make statements like you posted above; then ask me to come BLM, RDM, WHM, THF, BRD or SMN anyway!
The better players will realise that an alliance of 18 WAR perhaps isn't going to be the best plan.

[Amador]

For ideas related to how to make the player unique among the mass of players who play the same job category I'd have to suggest you make a new thread.

Camante has shown the importance of on topic/direct to a key threads that devs are looking for. So, just a suggestion.

They also again, in relation to your request for capped unique merits. They want to stray away from things that will lead the player base to ask for "more" in regards to the same issue. It seems they want to touch base, and go home. Not Touch base, steal 3rd and run back to first.

I mean, they wanted us to talk stats...

They wanted us to literally say Okay...

We get: +35 Attack, +31.5 Accuracy, +1-2 Stat depending on roll it would land on per job. C.Lvl Vs. M.Lvl Formula increase.

They didn't want us to babble about random factors that may or may not be present. It got out of hand, redundantly so. To the point where people were straight crying wolf. When there was nothing there at all that would even remotely point in that direction.

There's still a very large majority who want 100 based on a number of facts.

1: It was never tradition.
2: It improves us overall.
3: It allows us to have higher stats against tought opponents.
4: If you're not a DRG you probably aren't capping accuracy against current Voidwatch End Game Content.
5: 99 Was a system limitation, a forced limitation as it was and is in numerous titles. It's like the unreal engine, it sucks beyond belief, guess that's why it's called UNREAL. However, it's what was out, what was working, what was hot for the developers, so they used it.

As for everything else... all I can truly say is that it isn't fair at all.

Information was incomplete and handed to us. The information was taken by us and submitted erroneously, when the real action should have been a post by Camante saying:

CRAP, Wait. Start over. I left out some IMPORTANT STUFF, that will determine the fate of this choice!

That didn't happen. What would of happened if Camante had not submitted what the devs didn't want to see? A discussion would of taken place regarding Attribute Points, Combat Skill Gains, Offensive Skill Gains, Magic Skill Gains, dDex formulas for Crit Rate, Attack formulas against enemies, damage taken formulas as well as a number of other topics revolving around the simple increase of 1 level.

I want a do-over damn it. :|

[Bulrogg]

I want a do-over

BST poll got a do-over < <

....please sir, can I has another?

[Kaych]

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

Well, now that I read this, I'd prefer lvl 99. The reason for this is cos its the Final Fantasy "tradition" to have lvl 99.
And I dont really think anyone care if you make a type-o, Camate. You respond to so many threads that you are bound to make a mistake every once in a while.

I say, thank you for your continuing effort to make this forum a better place ^_-

[FrankReynolds]

You're right, this would certainly separate the n00bs from the better players. The n00bs will make statements like you posted above; then ask me to come BLM, RDM, WHM, THF, BRD or SMN anyway!
The better players will realise that an alliance of 18 WAR perhaps isn't going to be the best plan.


Which is why your idea is lame. People will always need show up at events on the appropriate job. Being unable to merit one useful job because the merits did more for another slightly more useful job is lame. When I need a Red Mage for an event, I don't want him to be gimp because he also has monk, and thus had to spend all his merits on that. I want him to be fully merited on both.

[Sephoroth]

Maybe they should allow one job to 100, and make it if you change your mind on that job, and switch to a different job to 100 then it will make the last one go back to Lv1 which would seem like a fair price to pay for those leeches who abyssea burn everything anyways... And could be a good way to keep the gil flowing for those who do the AoEing :P

[Puck]

It's funny how a rep came in and COMPLETELY derailed this guy's thread. The original post had nothing to do with 99 vs. 100, it was about adding a new quest to "promote" a 99 job to a "better" version of the job at 99, kinda like how it worked in the original FF (you had to go through a dungeon to fetch a Rat Tail). Or for those of you that played the original Shining Force games, what happens to almost all of your characters in those games (Knight to Paladin, Warrior to Gladiator, Magician to Wizard, etc.). The idea is definitely asking too much though, if just for the fact that these upgraded jobs would need to be added in the requirements for old gear and all kinds of balancing acts that would go along with essentially 20 newish jobs. Like the first reply said (pretty much the only one on-topic), it's like asking for a new game.
Camate, what you posted wasn't "slightly different" than the OP's suggestion, it didn't have anything to do with his post except the number 99! The least you can do for the guy is relay his actual suggestion to the devs (so they can shoot it down with their excuse cannon).

That said, most FF games had a cap of 99 simply because the game wasn't programmed to allow any higher levels. 2 digits only. That's how you knew there was nowhere left to go. 100 doesn't "feel" capped, it doesn't imply that it's the end of the line. 99 does. So yeah, 99's better.

[Arcon]

Maybe they should allow one job to 100, and make it if you change your mind on that job, and switch to a different job to 100 then it will make the last one go back to Lv1 which would seem like a fair price to pay for those leeches who abyssea burn everything anyways

Um... how do you figure? It would be completely the opposite. The Abyssea leeches would only take another day to get the job back up to 99. The people who play normally would take months again. This promotes leeching EXP and punishes people leveling traditionally.

[Kristal]

Well, now that I read this, I'd prefer lvl 99. The reason for this is cos its the Final Fantasy "tradition" to have lvl 99.

It's already been mentioned several times, but there is no such tradition.There have been numerical limits in older FF's due to design and interface choices, but it's not a written-in-stone FF tradition and it has been ignored in more recent FF's.
In fact, it would be a particularly odd thing in FFXI. Our skills and stats cap at 999, not 255. And damage display caps at 65535 (and it still goes beyond, as could be seen by the broken brewed Wildfire numbers.)
Even crafting caps at 100, but gear and buffs can take it beyond that; it's an artificial barrier due to lack of recipes.

The only valid reason I've seen to date is RDM's Composure, but that same reason applied to WHM's Afflatus Solace/Misery and RDM's Convert, and SE dealt with that by making WHM abilities main-only and RDM free for the taking (because RDM wouldn't be RDM if it had anything it could do better then another job.) So it's obvious SE can deal with whatever balancing challenge lvl 50 subjobs offer.

[Economizer]

The only valid reason I've seen to date is RDM's Composure

Once again I have to ask myself, why would Composure be significant for other jobs, let alone significant enough to merit blocking a level cap increase of one level, even if it wasn't blocked? I can't see a single good reason.

Most of the benefits are outpaced by other sub job choices and for Red Mage main, you get better bonuses from Composure then other jobs get, such as decreased recast penalty from better Fast Cast, increased duration from gear, and the ability to make the duration bonus apply to others.

Is it self Refresh duration? Because that's the only possible logic based argument I can think of at this point, and that's a pretty big joke compared to Convert, and an even bigger joke compared to subbing Scholar.

[Amador]

Is it self Refresh duration? Because that's the only possible logic based argument I can think of at this point, and that's a pretty big joke compared to Convert, and an even bigger joke compared to subbing Scholar.

Easy, next the people stating Composure is relevant as a role defining job ability will start to cry about why subbing RDM gives Convert.

The thing is, it isn't a valid reason. Never will be.

Oh my, the mages used Composure to cast buffs. :| wow. Oh wait, the PLD/RDM soloing would be completely broken right?

There's no justifiable reason, or rhyme as to why Composure can even be categorized as a Role Defining Job Ability. It's just a mindless excuse. I wouldn't be surprised if questions regarding features like 99 vs 100 or otherwise of the same type of nature will be solely directed at JP Forums.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Give Yonin/Innin/Afflatus while subbed. They're not role defining abilities.

Even stating this, I still voted for 100 regardless of whether others get Composure or not. Level 5 petrify/Composure/some abstract sense of tradition isn't a reason to not have level 100.

[FrankReynolds]

As Camate already pointed out ( as well as several other people ), the abilities from sub-jobs are irrelevant to the discussion because they will just block them as they see fit. I like 100 better. Nobody cares, especially the Developers.

P.S. WTF is this thread still doing here?

[CrystalWeapon]

As Camate already pointed out ( as well as several other people ), the abilities from sub-jobs are irrelevant to the discussion because they will just block them as they see fit. I like 100 better. Nobody cares, especially the Developers.

P.S. WTF is this thread still doing here?

Because for whatever reason the devs have been really slow about giving camate anything to post about. I kinda miss the daily 4~5 dev posts, but what are you gonna do? :P

[Deadvinta]

You really expected American Metagamers to consider the stat increases between one level difference? People barely pay attention to base stats in the first place, because they're out of their control. A +1 INT and + 5 to MP isn't going to make a Black Mage any happier than a level 100 headpiece that boosts his MAB by 5 more. Or having access to that additional stratagem from /SCH50 to make his casting even more efficient.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Stat increase alone, no.

[Amador]

There are a lot more gains to 1 level than a single +1 int, and +5 mp. To consider just those two stats alone is a bit silly.

You're missing give or take 35 Elemental Magic Skill, 35 Enfeebling, Enhancing, and whatever other magic you have.

Combat Skill increases, evasion, parrying, whatever.

You're also leaving out damage formulas which directly affect your damage vs monster when you're either A: Closer to Level or Above their Level.

You're also missing HP, but as you stated for MP that's also negligible unless they decide to add higher HP tiers for the last few levels.

It allows for easier, and or new tier hits on certain spells. There are benefits, belittling them doesn't do anything.

[Swords]

I don't really see how they expected us to only look at half the potential bonuses of level 100 when asking that question.

[FrankReynolds]

because when we get to 100, we will only get the sub-job abilities that they give us, Not the abilities that are available. Anything deemed OP by the developers will be blocked (this will probably happen even at 99 limit). The same goes for stats. They could just decide that we get 20 points added to every stat for each level 95-99. Therefore worrying about the implications of sub-job abilities and stats is pointless. The only real question was "do you prefer 99 or 100 as the level cap?".

What they should have said was:

"We have already decided what stats and abilities will be available when players reach the new level cap. What we haven't decided is what that cap will be, 99 or 100. Please tell us what you think."