Now that SCH gets intense reuseable AOE 2hr, how about redo SMN 2hr

[Concerned4FFxi]

Now that SCH gets a 3min 2hr, where they can cause major damage repeatably within those 3min, greatly out doing SMN aoe and buffing its party to extreme heights, please increase the AOE damage to teresterial avatars, fenrir, carby, and diablos while under the effects of our 2hr. Also, please greatly increase the AOE range of Odin and its number of enemies which can be KO'd.

I know this has been spoken of before, but it has since been buried by new posts and I believe it's important enough to warrant and re-look.

I beg you SE to consider this, and I realise that many great changes have been made and are in the works. Please keep up the good work, and bring this to the dev's attention about balance. Thank you.

If you agree to this and want to see SMN 2hr increased to again compete with other 2hrs, please give a like or comment.

[Vortex]

As it stands odin and alexander are the ONLY reason to even use our 2 hour, and while alexander will never become useless odin has somewhat lost his charm, (somewhat) the Special BPS by the other avatars are far to weak in this day and age in ffxi to even consider using them for anything outside abyssea magain trials to make them "slightly" quicker, other wise they are comeplety useless and pointless, to do LESS damage then none 2 hour attacks. regardless that they are AOE, no smart summoner is going to use these during there 2 hour unless they have a temp item to restore MP comepelty right after.

[Yygdrasil]

This is as good a place as any to start. Vortex... at the risk of sounding critical right off the bat, you're wrong. Although Alexander is incredibly useful and Odin is very hit and miss (pardon the pun), that does not make a SMN who chooses to use the other avatars "Stupid"... or as you put it "Not Smart". I can personally cleave fairly effectively with Shiva once my lights are built up. When you pair a great Pet: MaB set with the right Atmas (at least in Abyssea) you can deal devastating AoEs. Just last night I used the following set-up to clean up Puks in Aby: Vunk.

Atma of the Minikin
Atma of the Beyond
Atma of the Ultimate

Once I and the NIN/DNC I was with managed to cap out Azure/Amber/Pearl, I had him pull every Puk in the area to me with his EVA set and I used Sleepga+Diamond Dust which he followed with one single Aeolean Edge and it cleared the lot of them. To be fair, my Diamond Dust took them all down to 5-7% and the NIN did have to clear them with one last hit. I can take a screen shot the next time I do it if you would like to see it first hand, but the numbers I was pulling with Shiva were 6k+AoE damage. Had we chosen a different zone and mobs that were weak to ice, the results may have been better.

[Yygdrasil]

Damn character limit >_>*

As I was saying... I could pull numbers to the tune of 6k+. I could probably get that number higher, but I wasn't using Mana Cede... or taking into consideration the amount of TP I was getting Shiva to before using the BP. I also didn't use any Temps to increase MaB (not even 100% sure that they effect avatars or other pets... they should if they don't).

The MP issue that you mentioned having with using multiple BPs can be fixed by going as SMN/RDM using Convert/Refresh or as SMN/SCH using Sublimation ahead of time. Both of these options provide you with enough MP to squeeze out 3 Astral Flows within the time-frame that you have.

You also mention that you prefer Alex over the others and so ask you... have you considered using 2 Astral flows from Siva etc... and then using Convert to regain MP and follow up with Perfect Defense as your 3rd? It would optimize your Astral Flow and make the best use of your MP in the long run.

Also: I can only make proper use of this cleaving method when I have capped my Azure/Pearl lights first. This way I am nearly guaranteed a Blue Pyxide containing "Intense" light at least once for every run of 15+mobs. This will effectively reset my 2hour AS WELL as Convert (If going as /RDM)

Food for thought.

[Vortex]

This is as good a place as any to start. Vortex... at the risk of sounding critical right off the bat, you're wrong. Although Alexander is incredibly useful and Odin is very hit and miss (pardon the pun), that does not make a SMN who chooses to use the other avatars "Stupid"... or as you put it "Not Smart". I can personally cleave fairly effectively with Shiva once my lights are built up. When you pair a great Pet: MaB set with the right Atmas (at least in Abyssea) you can deal devastating AoEs. Just last night I used the following set-up to clean up Puks in Aby: Vunk.


Atma of the Minikin
Atma of the Beyond
Atma of the Ultimate

Haha, hold your horses there kiddo, i have in fact been using that exact same atma set up since abyssea started when those became avalible, in fact, it is my primary atma set up on smn, since i usualy do 5-7k Heavenly strikes, and yes i am fully aware that thier 2 hours can do alot of aoe damage because that is also what i was doing, especially at worm camp where a bunch of worms are gatherd up, i often do more then the blms with shivas 2 hour, so i know where you are coming from.

BUT, the abyssea era is dying out now, and even then, no one really wants smn in abyssea unless you were going for fun, just last week doing woe runs we were about to time out flux 11 and a couple of retards shouted "astral flow" now when you see this, you think, "ok, people will try odin" nope, every SINGLE smn that 2 houred used the 2 hour bps from garuda and shiva...i won't even mention the damage. because it was pretty much none- existent. that is where the "stupid" smns come in, when it comes to the 2 hour those bps are not used in anything pratical or useful, so exploding magic bps for the very small use that have is not a valid reason, because you can only do that every 2 hours or unless you use revitlizer/resotre chest, outside of odin and alexander the 2 hour still sucks.



Once I and the NIN/DNC I was with managed to cap out Azure/Amber/Pearl, I had him pull every Puk in the area to me with his EVA set and I used Sleepga+Diamond Dust which he followed with one single Aeolean Edge and it cleared the lot of them. To be fair, my Diamond Dust took them all down to 5-7% and the NIN did have to clear them with one last hit. I can take a screen shot the next time I do it if you would like to see it first hand, but the numbers I was pulling with Shiva were 6k+AoE damage. Had we chosen a different zone and mobs that were weak to ice, the results may have been better.

Once again,you are explaing things i have already been doing, but in a more pratical sense, a good blm can simply aoe that to help out. Without a 2 hour, what you are not understanding is it's useless because it is limited to a 2 hour ability.


As for your second post i can cleave quite well with smn, but the fact is, i can also just change to blm and do the exact same thing with aga/ja +sleep method.

This 2 hour needs a change. or at least give them all new abilites under it.

One more thing, cataclysm actually does very well on smn, you should try that out instead of relying on that 2 hour. it's actually how i got through dark staff trials farily quickly.




You also mention that you prefer Alex over the others and so ask you... have you considered using 2 Astral flows from Siva etc... and then using Convert to regain MP and follow up with Perfect Defense as your 3rd? It would optimize your Astral Flow and make the best use of your MP in the long run.

Been there, done that, however i never sub rdm because it is useless. don't need convert or refresh at all, and losing na and erase is to much of a risk, if you don't like /whm /sch is a much better option then /rdm. i really have no idea why smns even sub rdm inside abyssea at all. because there is no use for it. even outside it's still to risky to lose support spells.

Inside abyssea /whm better overall.

Outside /sch, due to sublimation and siphon MP should not really become an issue. /rdm has no use outside of refresh, even converting can be dangerous at a bad time, otherwise, gl if you get paralyzed, cursed, bound, hp/mp down. unless (now) you can get carbuncle out, if the paralyzes dosn't stop you.

[Yygdrasil]

Your original post would have benefited from including some of these facts you're just now offering up. The way your OP reads at first glance is that you're denouncing the usefulness of any Avatar apart from Alexander. Your mention that other jobs such as BLM can do the same if not better job as a SMN can in the scenario I presented is based on the assumption that the person you're advising also has BLM leveled/skilled/geared to the point that you do. I'm simply saying that you can't write off a SMN's ability to hold their own against other jobs in Abyssea if you're exploiting the correct circumstances. You are correct that the job's 2hour is severely underwhelming outside of the Abyssea zones. To this point I have to agree that change is needed. Ever since the implementation of ODIN and ALEX, they are the only Avatars I use in HNM, BCNM, Sky, Sea or Dynamis events. I certainly don't use their 2hour outside Abyssea unless I am short on MP... and even then, it's only in an effort to conserve my MP consumption... not to actually deal damage.

It's good to see that you're not calling ANY SMN who uses an Avatar apart from Alexander for their 2hour "Stupid" and that you've narrowed it down to only apply to the SMNs who were ALREADY "stupid" to begin with.

My posts were there to offer suggestions (not necessarily to you but...) those people who read your post and treat it like it's the one and only truth. For those who don't use the method that you and I clearly share, I'm suggesting that they give it a shot. Again... because not every SMN has access to a BLM.

[Yygdrasil]

kiddo

I resent this, bucko.

[Vortex]

Your original post would have benefited from including some of these facts you're just now offering up. The way your OP reads at first glance is that you're denouncing the usefulness of any Avatar apart from Alexander. Your mention that other jobs such as BLM can do the same if not better job as a SMN can in the scenario I presented is based on the assumption that the person you're advising also has BLM leveled/skilled/geared to the point that you do. I'm simply saying that you can't write off a SMN's ability to hold their own against other jobs in Abyssea if you're exploiting the correct circumstances. You are correct that the job's 2hour is severely underwhelming outside of the Abyssea zones. To this point I have to agree that change is needed. Ever since the implementation of ODIN and ALEX, they are the only Avatars I use in HNM, BCNM, Sky, Sea or Dynamis events. I certainly don't use their 2hour outside Abyssea unless I am short on MP... and even then, it's only in an effort to conserve my MP consumption... not to actually deal damage.

It's good to see that you're not calling ANY SMN who uses an Avatar apart from Alexander for their 2hour "Stupid" and that you've narrowed it down to only apply to the SMNs who were ALREADY "stupid" to begin with.

Well. i am sorry but, almost every single SMN i have met is either stupid or have no clue how to use the job, i really hate to admit stuff like this because it gives the job a bad name but it's sadly true, it's nice to see SOME people know how to properly use smn, but that flux 11 2 hour blooper was probably the most embrassing thing i have ever seen out of MULTIPLE smns at once, but yea, the retard/stupid comment was directed at people like that.


My posts were there to offer suggestions (not necessarily to you but...) those people who read your post and treat it like it's the one and only truth. For those who don't use the method that you and I clearly share, I'm suggesting that they give it a shot. Again... because not every SMN has access to a BLM.

Fair enough, it's always good to show a "the more you know" response.


I resent this, bucko.

hahaha, calm down, i ment no harm with it, it was sort a "playful" type of comment. don't get mad :/ bucko didn't offend me at all.

[Yygdrasil]

Trust me. If I wanted drama with anyone, I'd go subscribe to BG and start a thread based on "Assumption". I just wanted to clarify things a bit more. On the surface, your post seemed ill-informed. I was actually happy to see that wall of text fly at me when you posted your response. I too am happy to meet another SMN who knows how the job works.

You and I, I suspect... will get along just fine from here on out.

... sport :P

Do you play with Squiggs, Neverslip or Romyro at all? They're buddies of mine on Cerb.

[Dallas]

Psst, pettp does not impact any SMN 2hr.

[Secondplanet]

I think what S.E. should do to fix this is give smn a new ability like mana cede where for 100mp you gain a charge on your next blood pack to make it more powerful, accurate, etc..... Then allow us to add it up to 5 (random number) and put like a 1min timer on it, That way in 5min's you can have 5 points which would effect normal blood pacts and also buff up alexander's and odin when used.

problem fixed, won't be overpowered since it costs 500mp in total to power up then our 2hr and all of our mp on top of that.

[Evilvivi]

I think what S.E. should do to fix this is give smn a new ability like mana cede where for 100mp you gain a charge on your next blood pack to make it more powerful, accurate, etc..... Then allow us to add it up to 5 (random number) and put like a 1min timer on it, That way in 5min's you can have 5 points which would effect normal blood pacts and also buff up alexander's and odin when used.

problem fixed, won't be overpowered since it costs 500mp in total to power up then our 2hr and all of our mp on top of that.

That idea would be awful for Alexander. This is just asking for another mana cede, might as well just ask SE to increase TP cap to 500% and use Cede 5 times.

[Soranika]

Alexander works just fine for what he's intended for. Nothing is wrong with our Astral Flow abilities as far as what they're suppose to do, they just need to be adjusted. My issue with our astral flow blood pacts is that they're descriptions are misleading now. "Deal massive AoE elemental damage" Right now all massive means is size of the animation now, no necessarily the damage. TP doesn't effect them either, so anyone who say it does is clearly do not what they're talking about or there's been a change in how they work and I don't know about it yet.

So for the most part, the damage formula needs to be reworked and adjusted for our avatar's astral flow blood pacts and Odin needs an update to his M.ACC and widen the cone area. Though I say that loosely, I have no ideal of M.ACC merits make a huge difference but I don't know any SMN who would bother to put merits on M.ACC, if they haven't already, just for Odin.

[Evilvivi]

But he said the charges will affect ALL Blood Pacts, so the another mana cede was more referencing other BPs than Astral FLow and from what I can tell on my SMN the merit BPs generally do more dmg overall than the physical BPs. The reason I said its bad for Alexander is firstly with 95% DT- and the certain ailment resistances, it cant really get much stronger than that. Also depending on how much mp the smn has, and how much refresh gear the SMN has it could lower the duration of PD. I know its only about 5 mp/tick? if my math was correct to offset the cost of it, but I've seen SMNs with less than that.

I really dont see Astral Flow being anything more than a free avatar, or Perfect Defense for zergs. Cause for the cost of my entire mp bar, that dmg would have to be something pretty amazing.

[Secondplanet]

The other idea would be to change odin/alexander into non-2hr and make them cost 500mp to use with a recast on them of 5min's even. Then Astral Flow can be used to make him more accurate/powerful and it still wouldn't overpower smn.