The Problem With Voidwatch: Random Loot Distribution, and How to Fix It

[Asymptotic]

Voidwatch fights bring new challenges and interesting battles to a post-Abyssea FFXI, and most people applaud the fights themselves; however, I have not met a single person that has anything good to say about the reward distribution system. The main grievances are as follows:

1. The drop rates seem dreadfully low.

Maybe after Abyssea, land of force-what-you-want-to-drop, low drop rates aren't necessarily bad for us. But, some of the drop rates on Voidwatch items seem astonishingly low. Combine that with...

2. Random distribution of R/EX items

It's insulting, and practically heartbreaking when the LS's main tank receives an item for BRD when she doesn't even have it unlocked, and the BRD receives a shiny new mail for his level 10 Samurai. The already low drop rates make this even worse.

A Potential Solution


Why not release a series of items, similar to the "ascent" items which can be traded to a Planar Rift before the start of the battle, which affect the type of item one might receive from the riftworn pyxis? I'd propose two sets:

Part I: Type Selection (15k cruor each, can trade 1 per fight from this category)

Spiritual Medallion: greatly increases your chance of receiving magic oriented armor from riftworn pyxides, but you will be unable to receive other high quality items.

Assailant's Medallion: greatly increases you chance of receiving melee oriented armor from riftworn pyxides, but you will be unable to receive other high quality items.

Armorer's Medallion: greatly increases you chance of receiving weapons from riftworn pyxides, but you will be unable to receive other high quality items.

Part II: Designation Selection (20k cruor, can trade 1 per fight from this category)

Collector's Medallion: greatly increases you chance of receiving exclusive items from riftworn pyxides and greatly reduces your chance of receiving items that can be sold.

Merchant's Medallion: greatly increases you chance of receiving sellable items from riftworn pyxides and greatly reduces your chance of receiving exclusive items.

The cost in cruor is set relatively high in comparison to other items, and should have a noticeable effect. I'm not saying it should raise the drop rate to 50% or anything, but a decent increase at the "target" items while removing the ability to get things you were just going to drop seems reasonable.

A system in place like this would at least make players feel more in control over their fates when venturing out on the Voidwatch, and I think it would increase the playability and reception of the system greatly.

[Runespider]

The whole point of the drop system is the artifically extend the amount of times you have to fight the mobs over and over again, it's like the old HNM system (rare drops but also with a horrible claim system to turn what would of been a few months content into 5+ years doing the same thing).

They made it this way on purpose, I can't see them wanting to change it anytime soon. It's all about trying to make peopel run around the wheel as cheaply as possible, an old XI endgame system rearing it's ugly head again.

They do far fewer updates per year and what they do add is pretty small, as such they need to make us do the small things they do add longer. Make scrolls annoying to get, make new endgame events with stupidly bad drop systems etc.. It's all about giving us stuff to do without actually having to work hard keeping us entertained.

[Kristal]

With the addition of heavy metal plates, redoing NMs over and over is pretty much required or there won't be any 95 empyrean weapons for the next couple of years. It does mean you cannot solo/duo your way to a full empy...

There's also a few good aspects of the system. It allows players to get their hands on gear they would normally never be allowed to lot on due to draconian kill point systems or preferred jobs.

[Dfoley]

TLDR version

Solution = put crap items on VW so no one wants to do them.... then balance it by requiring 500+ runs while pooling heavy metal plates to 1 person (see relic/mythic).


Working as intended.

[Insaniac]

The VW loot system is a replacement bottleneck for the "camping against 150 other people" bottleneck. It's complete garbage. A nice middle ground between the system we have now and the and the instant gratification of abyssea would make almost everyone happy. I think a 5% drop rate per chest on the rarest item's with capped red is pretty reasonable. Right now it's less than 1%.

[cidbahamut]

"Add contents to lottable spoils".

There, fixed. I can deal with shitty drop rates so long as the drop can make it to the person who wants it, but getting elusive PUP gear and not being able to give it to our resident PUP enthusiast because it didn't spawn in their box is just silly.

[Risae]

Is it even possible to do that? Because that is by far the best option for WoE at least, even if they make it so that you can only add it to the lottable treasure pool of your party. This technically would even make coins 'sellable', but would only be 'sellable' for five minutes to people who actually showed up.

Couldn't be that horrible, right? If they have it set up so that only top performers get pouches, the drop rate can't be so good that going 'Join my party for X gil lot on Frayed Pouch of Ruin' is going to horribly mess up the long wait times intended.

Even if so, people would still go back.

Can we get that? "Add to Party Treasure Pool"? Even if the current system is working 'as intended' it's frustratingly silly to just be tossing coins you don't need/can't use.

[Rearden]

Add treasure to pool, increase drop rates. We don't care what the DEVs think about it, this is what we want because right now it is a poorly designed system.

[Asymptotic]

They have stated (and seemed pretty vehement about it) that they would not allow you to add to treasure pool in Voidwatch, hence the suggestion I've offered above.

[cidbahamut]

I don't care what SE said. You treat the cause, not the symptoms.

[Asymptotic]

You can argue for something they said they will not do all you want. I think we get farther asking for things that don't interfere with the development team's arcane grand designs.

It's relatively easy to see that they like this personal reward chest idea a lot, and people have been complaining for "add to treasure pool" since WoE placement chests, and it's been a no-dice the entire time.

When they're convinced of something like this, they're not going to change the "cause," as you'd put it, so you have to jump through hoops to make it "better."

(although your analogy is pretty bad because a lot of times in medicine, there's no treatment for the cause, or you don't know what it is, and you treat the symptoms and ride it out, just fyi)

[cidbahamut]

And that is what we call bad game design.

[Asymptotic]

I agree that it's bad design.
But, they're set on it it seems, so we can at least try to work around it and find playability enhancements which make us hate the world less without destroying their precious baby of a concept.

[Rearden]

What they think isn't really the point. There are so many examples of poor game design that they've eventually backed out on it's ridiculous.

No matter what your excuse or grand idea is as a development team this system is poor. It's no different than getting 30 of every coin you don't need before you get the 30 you do in WoE - except in WoE you actually get coins sometimes.

If the bodies are already a rare stupid % drop rate, then having them go to a random person randomly with no way to offer it to someone who wants is poor game design. Mules do not need Radiant Mails, mules do not need a 2nd Radiant Mail, people who have one already or do not want it to begin with do not want Radiant Mails - yet these are who get the items more often than not.

This system is poor and it doesn't matter what the developers feel or think about it because it needs to get changed.

[Leonlionheart]

This is the only thing discouraging players from doing VW- the drop system. People want the gear, however minimal of an upgrade most of it is, but doing VW every day and seeing the WHM bot getting your R mail every time is discouraging.

[Dijana]

I only did voidwatch for the first time the other night (finally) for fun. I enjoyed it alot, I believe someone got a body off voidwrought unless they were just BSing but Im fairly sure they were a mage not able to use it.

I got a ganesha's mask myself off hahava (not terribly rare or impressive I know) I couldnt really think what I'd use it for though, and would have much rathered just giving it to someone else who might want it. I think this system is good in theory in that it does seem to get rid of the whole point system from ls's people keep saying they do not want to have to deal with again, but as said already by others an add to pool option would be perfect. Even if the devs have said they dont want to allow that..well enough people complained about the payment options they finally listened to that. If enough people make it known this needs to change maybe they will listen.

But if they dont, or at least in the meantime, I think these suggestions are good and would be greatly welcomed.

[detlef]

If allowing a common treasure pool for the alliance is out of the question then increased drop rates for higher tiers must be considered.

[Leonlionheart]

OP's suggestion is honestly something that sounds like SE would do.

20k cruor is roughly 50k gil for a chance at increased drops? I don't see the unbalance there. Not only that, but it would aid in fixing the economy to some extent, as in it would be a large gil sink (to get rid of the excess gil made simply by being inside Abyssea) and at the same time a large time sink (in that you need to farm cruor to get a decent chance at drops). Keep the drop rate low- not K club low, but maybe Ridil/Ebody low, and you keep balance.

Definitely a good suggestion, I hope the Devs look into a similar fix.

[Vagrua]

They could at least make it able for us to put rare/ex equipment into the treasure pool of the alliance. Rare items/equipment and scrolls are usually bidded on or /randomed in our alliance for people that can make use of them. Many rare/ex items on the other hand go to waste. Please allow us some way to distribute these items to others in the alliance that can make use of them.

[Dfoley]

Thing is with how rare stuff currently is, its as if its balanced based on the fact that only 1 person used a stone to try for loot each kill...

Killing a t4 city mob 10x and getting 1 gun from 18 people using a stone and capped red/blue light every time is basically 1/180 chances to drop. Which is what I would expect from a drop that is shareable to an alliance.

And I have to agree, the loot system is terrible and needs to be changed. It doesnt matter what the developers feel/want/think at this point. When 100% of your player base says something isnt rewarding...its time to listen


***I wouldnt mind trading an extra of my own stones to the chest in order to add it to the alliance lootable list. Or add a crour purchaseable item that costs 100k crour and you trade it to the chest to make its contents shareable.

Its expensive but so much nicer.

[Rearden]

No. Absolutely not.

Why are all of your suggestions contingent upon punishing us further? Costing us MORE cruor than cells already do, costing us MORE stones than some of us don't even have anymore. This is silly.

The system is messed up, we shouldn't be punished further for it. The ability to add treasure to the pool is out there, so let us do it. The drop rates get increased a bit, and everyone is happy.

This current system is a broken failure.

[Malamasala]

And that is what we call bad game design.

Well, apart from abyssea, the game has no good game design.

[Creelo]

No. Absolutely not.

Why are all of your suggestions contingent upon punishing us further? Costing us MORE cruor than cells already do, costing us MORE stones than some of us don't even have anymore. This is silly.

The system is messed up, we shouldn't be punished further for it. The ability to add treasure to the pool is out there, so let us do it. The drop rates get increased a bit, and everyone is happy.

This current system is a broken failure.

This. SE doesn't want to add the option because they have a huge Mekki Shakki up their ass; they think by having absolutely abysmal drop rates for gear that only a few (or perhaps only ONE) job can even equip, the player base will just keep doing the event over and over until the desired drops fall to the right people.

But they're wrong. They are extremely wrong. The general people aren't doing Voidwatch, at all. Only select groups are completing them, and very few groups are repeatedly doing them, at least on Sylph and I'm sure other servers are reflective of this. The main problem is treasure distribution.

Every run my LS does of Voidwatch, there's generally excitement at defeating the VWNM, followed by disappointment at the treasure received. We can proc well, even though we don't have too many people, yet it seems like all we ever get are logs... That's what a majority of my LS complains about from VW, "All you ever get are logs!" And those few rare times we actually do get a R/Ex piece of gear, they almost ALWAYS go to the person who DOESN'T want it.

The solution is simple. Add an option to add your treasure to the alliance treasure pool (AKA: Add the R/Ex items you don't want to the Alliance Pool).

If SE knows what's good for their business (AKA: Their IRL Gilz and Jobs <.<), they will add this option to Voidwatch. It's truly rediculous that they haven't. Voidwatch is a lot of fun, but hardly anyone wants to do it because of the horrid treasure distribution.

Let me put it this way. As it seems quite evident to me by now, I stand a stronger chance of finishing my Gjallarhorn before I ever actually see a Langeleik drop in my chest off that godforsaken bird woman Celaeno. Don't even get me started about an Anhur Robe...

[Winrie]

People will do vw over and over again until they get drops even if SE won't fix it, Especially Due to iron plates. People did hnm over and over again for many years for gear, that's why they feel they can get away with crap like this, the only difference is with hnm you had an actual chance at gear, if you claimed. I like the ops idea muchly and I believe that kind of idea or the lottable spoils options would make voidwatch very much more worth our time. Please adjust SE the content has potential but the reward system deters us from investing time into it :/

[Shiyo]

rediculous

Really? Wow