Dancer Suggestions: Round II

[Asymptotic]

Hello Again FFXI Development Team!
(also to everyone out there in FFXI Forum Land <3)

I assume you've caught wind of my original suggestion thread, because one of your responses relayed to us by Camate was basically a direct response to one of my suggestions (that I didn't see in the Japanese side of the forums). Anyway, I think I sort of have a feel for the direction you want to take Dancer now, and now that I absolutely know you think splitting waltz timers as they are would be unbalanced (as I've said you thought all along!), I'd like to address more things, as well as comment on things that I didn't comment on before.

I know the Dancer community seems pretty upset and perhaps even at arms with the unpopularity of Ternary Flourish, but I'd like to point out that people were simply disappointed that so many great support abilities have been suggested, but it seems like they were ignored for Ternary Flourish, an ability with dubious applicability to today's endgame. That said, I have full confidence that you will use Ternary Flourish as a learning experience and make better design choices down the road, as you have been very responsive to the concerns of other job communities.

Perhaps then we should discuss the existing issues and potential ways to address them.

The Dancer's Role: Many people, like myself, were drawn to the Dancer class because they like both support roles and being on the front lines, and the Dancer class theoretically combined the two. At the 75 cap, this was very true and Dancers were some of the most efficient healers around. However, mages have gotten exponentially more and more powerful (especially since the constraints of MP have mostly been removed everywhere), and the Dancer's support abilities have been increased very slightly. As such, the Dancer class has been transformed into a self-sufficient mid-tier damage-dealing class (think DRG/WHM) with minor support abilities (the usefulness of Haste Samba is even decreasing due to the increased power of Bard's March spell, and now, Embrava).

Dangers of the Front Lines: A major issue with the Dancer class especially in end game content such as Voidwatch, is that it gets absolutely torn to pieces on the front lines due to area of effect attacks. For Dancer to perform its job in these sorts of arenas, it needs to be able to survive. I discuss a way to address this in a later section.

The Waltz Issue: Healing waltz absolutely NEEDS to be on a separate timer from the other waltzes. Raise its TP cost if you want to. You don't need to touch the other waltzes, although I would poersonally split Divine Waltzes into a separate category and increase their TP cost, as well. Do it like this:

Curing Waltz --> Contains I/II/III/IV/V
Healing Waltz --> Healing Waltz, and you could maybe add a Healing Waltz II that is AoE or something (like BLU's Winds of Promyvion)
Divine Waltz ---> I/II and add a very expensive Divine Waltz III.

I'm sure this would require a significant amount of programming, but yeah. Trust me, it would be worth it.

That about addresses the existing issues, so I'll move on to specific categorical ideas.

(by the way Dev team, I need a new job, feel free to hire me. I have ideas for most of the other jobs, too!)

[Asymptotic]

Suggestions for Job Abilities

Something Completely New!

The following two abilities are designed to give use to some of the flourishes that we have mostly forgotten about as high-level Dancers. It's also aimed at solving the problem where one flourish in a category particularly outshines the others, preventing the others from seeing usage, ever. Perhaps breathing life into some of our old abilities is the key to solidifying the role of the class? I put them on a shared recast timer for balance concerns, but I think the 2nd ability will be much more popular than the first. Maybe separating them wouldn't be overpowered after all?

À ma guise Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with Glissade]
The next Flourish may be used without expending finishing moves.
** For finishing moves which can use differing numbers of finishing moves, it would use the lowest amount. It might be interesting to enhance this ability with a piece of equipment, adding one finishing move to the effect. The name means "As I please."

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

1.) Reverse ---> Step/No Foot Rise --> Building: would allow Dancers to buff the closing weapon skill of a solo skillchain.

2.) Ternary Flourish + Climactic Flourish --> This is pretty self-explanatory! Would certainly give a potential use to Ternary!

3.) Ternary Flourish + Striking Flourish --> Would result in a 4-hit attack, and allow enhancement from the Charis Casaque to the first and second hits. Also, then you wouldn't need to feel inclined to add a Quaternary Flourish. (Seriously, please don't give us a Quaternary Flourish)

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

6.) Wild Flourish --> Reverse Flourish --> Solo 2-step Skillchains. (Wild --> Evisceration --> Transfixion ---> Evisceration/Dancing Edge --> Distortion) etc.

There are countless other combinations, of course but I figured these were the ones best worth mentioning.

I have made my suggestions for the "TP-draining ability which gives party members some kind of effect" in the other suggestion thread multiple times, so I'm assuming Camate has already relayed that information :)

Flourishes IV

Since I'm assuming Flourishes III is over (seriously guys, It's over, time to move on!), we should start looking forward to Flourishes IV. Since Flourishes I were utility abilities, Flourishes II were self-enhancement abilities, and Flourishes III were aimed at increasing damage output, Flourishes IV should be party support abilities. Also, since it's Flourishes IV and presumably the last flourish category ever, I'm going to go crazy and put *4* flourishes here, one which is very silly, but could be fun.

Glittering Flourish: (3-5 Finishing Moves): Reduces the damage nearby party members take from a single magical attack. [Target: Self. Range: 20'] Reduces damage from the next magical attack by 30-40-50% (depending on number of finishing moves). Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits. (Recast 1:30) [PLEASE HAVE THE ANIMATION SHOWER THE PARTY WITH GLITTER]
Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party - Cannot target self]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00) Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits.
Tactical Flourish: (1-5 Finishing Moves): Restores the target party member's TP [Target - Party - Cannot target self]. 10 -25 -50 - 75 - 100 TP depending on the number of finishing moves expended. (Recast 2:00)
Arcane Flourish: (1 Finishing Move): Imbues your next attack with forbidden and poorly understood magic. (Recast 30s? 1m?)

Arcane Flourish would have a very unhelpful description, just for kicks, really. It would double the damage of your next normal attack (would not double the damage of a weapon skill) and attempt to inflict a random status ailment from a predetermined list. A critical hit under Arcane's effects would inflict more powerful status ailments. I haven't decided what sort of additional effects would be attached to arcane, but you could consider: defense down, magic defense down, evasion down, magic evasion down, critical hit evasion down (for normal hits) and more powerful effects such as strong slow and paralyze for a critical hit. You could use climactic to guarantee one of the better effects.

These are just my ideas for Flourishes IV, but I'd like others to give some ideas too :D

Addressing the Dangers of the Front Lines

The best thing I could come up with is sort of a stance. I actually think it's pretty neat, so maybe you'll like the idea too? Of course, one of the problems with reducing the damage taken by a Dancer is that it's already a good soloist, so you'd have to make it an ability that doesn't work solo, and I designed this ability with that in mind.

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

[Asymptotic]

Job Traits and Combat Skills

I provided a lot of suggestions for Job Traits previously in my other thread, so I won't repeat them, except for one idea:

Please add a job trait or series of job traits that enhances waltzes in some manner!

A main job DNC should see a much greater benefit to using Waltzes than people using it as a support job. Yes, the waltz formula is slightly weaker for them and yes, we can enhance it with potency gear, but the differences are pretty minor. Perhaps add a series of job traits that add weak stoneskin effects to waltzes, increasing with level? I'm thinking 3 traits that apply 10-15-20% of the waltz amount as a Stoneskin effect. It would just be a nice bonus to using DNC instead of /DNC.

As for combat skills, it would be really nice if you increased the Dagger combat skill ranking of the Dancer class. One handed weapons are pretty weak when it comes to accuracy and attack, and while our accuracy bonus traits help, they don't completely cover the issue.

It would be also pretty nice if we could use hand to hand weapons effectively, especially since you seem to make DNC NPCs like this weapon type a lot! Maybe raise Dagger to A- and Hand to Hand to B-? It would be kind of interesting if we had some sort of 2-handed weapon option, at a relatively low rank. Maybe a staff skill at a C ranking or something? To be honest, I really don't care, it would just be interesting. I'll settle for interesting at this point.

[Asymptotic]

Weapons and Weaponskills

Unique Dancer Weapons?

There has been a bit of interest in a unique weapon for Dancers (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13927-Unique-Dancer-Weapon), I think similar to how Kilij are BLU-specific swords.

War Fans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_fan) have been suggested as a slashing-type dagger, although I think that these wouldn't fit well with dagger weapon skills.

I'm personally somewhat meh on this category. Not because I don't think there could be a good class of DNC-specific daggers, but I can't think of anything specific :)

Dancer Specific Weapon Skills

I posted a weaponskill idea in response to Ternary flourish before, but I think that my suggestion of Glissade is a better way to save Ternary Flourish from total obscurity. I think you should do something different with a Dancer-exclusive weapon skill.

I think when designing a DNC-exclusive WS you should think: What is a Dancer's role? What do we want DNC to do? A DNC-exclusive WS should have, at least in my opinion, unique supportive abilities while dealing damage. My original WS suggestion included attempting to remove a negative status effect. I personally think this is a great idea for a DNC - exclusive WS. But perhaps make it try to remove a status ailment from all nearby party members? The possibilities are endless.

[Asymptotic]

Placeholder for Post #5: Merit Adjustments

As it stands, many of our merit categories are completely worthless.

1.) Step Accuracy: I ne'er remember a time when I was uncapped on step accuracy. Maybe this should have been "Step Potency"?

2.) Building Flourish: Was a nice idea, but chances to use this ability are so rare due to timers.

Haste Samba and Reverse Flourish are awesome, and it's almost good that the other two are so awful I guess, since there's little reason to not have both of these maxed out. If you ever increase the number of points, it would be nice to have options worth meriting though.

New Merits

For LV99, you thought of a new merit system. So I thought of some new ideas:

Saber Dance Effect: Increases attack and critical hit rate under the effects of Saber Dance. Maybe 10%/10% at max upgrade?
Fan Dance Effect: Enhances "Magic Defense Bonus" effect under the effects of Fan Dance. Maybe MDB would scale along with the PDT effect and start at 90 and decrease to 20 at max upgrade?
Flourishes III Recast: Reduce the recast by a small amount per upgrade.

Additionally, there may be new abilities added that you'd want to enhance.

I can't think of any abilities to add as merit-unlockable abilities, but I'm sure someone has an idea?

[Asymptotic]

Placeholder for Post #6: In case I forgot something

[Asymptotic]

I'm done for now!

Better get translating Camate! <3
(you should pay special translation attention to the part where I told them they can feel free to hire me)

[Dijana]

I only just woke up so cant think of much to say worthwhile, but I think all your ideas are awesome, just as they were in the other thread. I support all these ideas! (and if I can think of something better to contribute when I wake up more..I'll come back)

[Asymptotic]

Give more ideas!
The more ideas the better!

[Alkalinehoe]

Lol'd at Quaternary Flourish.

[Asymptotic]

Lol'd at Quaternary Flourish.

We should be careful how many times we talk about a potential Q. Flourish. We might get one.

[Yamimarik44]

I always enjoy reading all your idea's about Dancer improvement. The things you suggest make me want to get back on Dancer and play it again, but sadly I've put it away. I enjoy Ninja more so over Dancer because like so many have said, the potency on /dnc vs. dnc/ in most instances are hardly noticeable on which one is the main dnc/. If they could breathe new life into Dancer I may actually enjoy it again and bring it out and play with it like I used to pre-Updates(I'd say Abyssea, but that just seems like an excuse.) I fully support everything Asymptotic has stated about helping Dancer out. Please Dev Team listen to his suggestions! We really need something to happen to Dancer before 99 gets here!

[Draylo]

I like these ideas a lot, hopefully they use a few of them.

[Vaness]

Approving those DNC ideas, you really should get hired asymptonic -_^

[Oscar71]

Give DNC the option to make FAN DANCE AoE, grant everyone a 10% DMG mitigation as a option.

Make Drain Samba not suck..seriously..why is it tied to the delay of the weapon...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So you want to steal WHM's Solace effect for DNC..... okay then!

[Soranika]

So you want to steal WHM's Solace effect for DNC..... okay then!
I'm confused, How is anything suggested so far stealing from Afflatus Solace?

[Solsticewind]

Ya I have to agree with Daniel on the giving waltzes a stoneskin effect have the Job trait give us a strait up % increase to the power of the waltzes that starts at lvl 50 so its a Dnc main trait. other then that I would LOVE to have all of the suggestions made would be nice to get a much needed boost to Support ^_^b

[Shibayama]

Wow, I really REALLY like the idea of contrecorps. Using FM's as DT- shadows would be amazing and would solve quite abit of the problems with our nessecity to be up front, whereas Fan Dance Maintains it's use for solo play. If I had to pick ONE ability from this list, it would be that one. Though I do like the idea of being able to shoot raw mp/tp into people...

That being said why don't we also give the devs an idea of what we DON'T WANT upcoming - assuming they are actually reading this with any real desire to listen to us and not just keep going with their grand master plan of "useless abilities that need hours of work to earn gear that will enhance it added at a later date" - from the Ternary flourish response I'm almost convinced that was an effort to save face rather than to actually get suggestions from us but no matter.

Things as a whole that should not be added:

Quadernary Flourish: Please... no more long-recast combat flourishes... We have more than enough already, and for the most part, adding in a new one makes the older ones either better or worse, so something is being pushed into the "do not use" pile either way. If they wern't all on the whole "shared timer" thing that'd be a different story but right now it's just useless. Please do not add another one. Even if that's part of your grand dev master plan, no thank you.

Mini 2 Hour: So several jobs have been getting minature versions of their two hours - BLM's, RDM's, Brds and Bsts have gotten minature 2 hours this update. I absolutely think we do not need a mini "Your next flourish uses no TP" thing at a 10 minute timer. Waltzes just need to be fixed so that in big serious fights, you are not crippled for 22 seconds unable to cure at all because you needed to give a big cure. Making it so that one waltz every 10 minutes or so is free/has no recast won't change our current position one bit. Waltzes just need some sort of fix to make us more viable healers for endgame type fights.

Instead, perhaps a mode (since just un-linking the timers would make us faster healers than WHMs thus is a No-no to the devs...) would be viable? Something that maybe lowers your overall damage output in exchange for either reduced or a universally shortened recast timer on all waltzes?

That's all I got for now - can you guys think of both stuff you want, and expressly *dont* want to see added?

[Richie]

I've wanted something lie Contrecorps for a long time x_x that'd be great.

I'm also a huge fan of hth and stave skill increases.

For the WS, I feel like we already have pretty good DD WS. Any new DD WS would only be a side grade to evisceration or rudra's storm par the circumstances. I'd much prefer utility WS that debuffs the mob or erases pt members like you said, but I don't particularly mind if it doesn't deal damage.

[Asymptotic]

So you want to steal WHM's Solace effect for DNC..... okay then!

Yeah, kind of like DNC stole Dual Wield from Ninja.

[Darkvalkyr]

I dunno...as a DNC I want to be more supportive, and I wholly approve of the slew of support ideas posted, but please, I don't want them to buff DNC's physical ability without doing more for THF's.

[Asymptotic]

THF will always have a spot due to Treasure Hunter. As a THF, complaining about a DNC's ability to do damage is like a RNG complaining that COR has better options for doing damage with Wildfire.

THF and DNC don't compete for a spot, so there's absolutely no need to balance them against each other.

Not that I'm arguing for an enhancement to the DNC's ability to deal damage. I'm just saying that I don't understand why THFs feel snubbed anytime DNC is given anything remotely offensive.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I dunno...as a DNC I want to be more supportive, and I wholly approve of the slew of support ideas posted, but please, I don't want them to buff DNC's physical ability without doing more for THF's.

Neither THF nor DNC is an actual DD, Abyssea just messed with the lines on what a DD is, DNC just trumps THF because of it's naturally higher DW and Subtle Blow, whereas you'd have a THF simply for it's TH and occasional SA/TA's.

[Ameglemorine]

Wow this is pretty nice. I just started DNC (lvl 56) and I enjoy the job. Although most of the stuff you mention in the post is a bit over my head, its only because i'm new to the job. But from what I learned, this job is very fun to play. Pulling mobs off of squishy jobs because the tank isn't doing the job makes me feel like i know what the hell I'm doing,lol. Love your post! keep it up!

[SpankWustler]

It's always a nice surprise to see a job suggestion thread that isn't "I want to do all things naked." or "I want to do seven billion...something?"

The development team should let go of the weird guy who smells like fermented soy beans and hire Asymptotic in his stead.

You know the guy I'm talking about, development team.

[Darkvalkyr]

I'm sorry, and I don't want to sound like a random THF troll; my only comments is that saying THF will have a spot due to TH is silly. DNC, especially with these suggestions by far would trump THF in every department imaginable minus hate management which is a pretty small proportion in party dynamics.

Still not convinced; I think every supportive/defensive based idea here is great, but I can't find myself liking the DNC offence ideas (weren't DNC asking for more support than offence anyway?). I'd welcome anything that'd benefit DNC all the same, offensive, defensive or supportive. I suppose though it isn't the OP's responsibility to think about what would come for THF unless the OP wants to do a similar suggestion for THF *shrug* I'd hope that SE would implement all these ideas and give THF something just as well.

[Asymptotic]

I'm sorry, and I don't want to sound like a random THF troll; my only comments is that saying THF will have a spot due to TH is silly.

Are we playing the same game? TH is the single most desired ability in FFXI.

[Darkvalkyr]

You don't find that it's weird we invite a job just for one trait for him/her to just tag a mob, get enmity and stay away from AoE spam? Does TH even work in current endgame like WoE and VW?

*sigh* I give up, you're not taking my whole post in context and just snipping out one statement out of it.

I know it's not your problem what happens to THF if any of these ideas are implemented. If you somehow do end up getting hired that will be your problem down the line.

[Dijana]

DNC and THF dont compete for a spot in a party, so I dont understand why thfs get so mad about dnc having mere SUGGESTIONS for it made. Their only similarities are they both have high eva, and they both use daggers. No team will invite them based on that.

Every group that does something, will always invite a thf for TH. Whether said thf wants to do more than just th or not, it doesnt matter, but there will always be that spot for them. If their other bonus - high eva, is needed, say to tank a mob that requires an eva tank..well its always goign to be a thf again for, you guessed it, TH, or a nin who just tanks better anyway. Aside from that now, the jobs have different roles. Thf will manage enmity, dnc will support with sambas and cures. Which goes to the next point.

Currently everything dnc has that is worthwhile, can be got from just subbing the job. Quick cures, stuns and samba can be handled by having one melee subbing the job. Which in my experience, is usually a thf. No serious group will ask someone to sub thf because the TH isnt worthwhile.

Whether or not anyone find it 'weird' the way thf is SOMETIMES played by running in, tagging for TH, and running out doesnt matter. That is what people are always going to want from thf, its the first reason anyone would invite a thf, and its an entirely different job to dnc. So really, what does it matter if dnc gets something thf does not? Or if its just a suggestion made for dnc. I really will never understand why people get so bent out of shape if a job that isnt their main gets something nice and their's doesnt.

[Asymptotic]

You don't find that it's weird we invite a job just for one trait for him/her to just tag a mob, get enmity and stay away from AoE spam? Does TH even work in current endgame like WoE and VW?

*sigh* I give up, you're not taking my whole post in context and just snipping out one statement out of it.

I know it's not your problem what happens to THF if any of these ideas are implemented. If you somehow do end up getting hired that will be your problem down the line.

I also have THF. and I've put a considerable amount of work into it, so, actually, I do kind of care what happens to THF. I just don't see any problem with THF currently. It has a lot of playability solo, it works well in small events, and has a role in every endgame event not named Voidwatch (TH doesn't work properly in VW). The enhancement to Bully is nice, but it wasn't really needed. Like it or not, TH is such a powerful ability that I'd dare say it's more broken than any of the ridiculously broken Empyrean weapons (Ukko's WARs, I'm looking at you). There is absolutely NO other ability in FFXI that boosts gear acquisition efficiency in the same manner as Treasure Hunter. I don't care how pimp your DDs are with their awesome DD abilities and their awesome DD weapons and I don't care how pimp your WHMs are or your BLMs with their 9999 dmg nukes .... none of that will make you more efficient than having to kill the NM half as many times to get everyone their drops. I'm compiling a similar suggestion list for THF, but it's very hard to not tip the balance for THF because it's already a very powerful job (even if you're just running in to proc TH and run out).
Still,this isn't a THF thread, and helping THF isn't going to come from balancing it vs. DNC, because like I said, it would be like Balancing RNG vs. COR.

[Byrth]

The problem with arguing THF = TH = "always good" is that TH2 can be subbed and TH3+ have questionable value.

That said, I don't see why DNC and THF would fight for seventh place in the DD hierarchy. Both using daggers doesn't mean you have to compare them.

[Asymptotic]

It's questionable value for which people are willing to sacrifice a slot and alter their playing strategy. A better chance at an item is a better chance at an item.

DNC currently has nothing to offer that another job can't do 150% better. There's no reason to bring a DNC to most events (read: not old content) unless that DNC is me, because I'm militant about it and have a hissy fit if I have to change jobs.

[Soranika]

Aren't THF and DNC roles very different though? A THF's major (and usually only) purpose was outlined to be about increasing item drops. DNC's role was to offer front line DD support through means of healing and debuffing. So as dagger wielding aside, DNC were naturally suppose to have more physical prowess.

DNC fell short 76+ because the support angle of the job stop being SE's concern because apparently doing something with waltzes would step on the toes of WHM. Increase debuff potential through steps would step on RDM toes, who are still having much infighting about their place on the frontlines vs master mage of enfeeblers. Even as a amateur DNC, I don't see the purpose in increasing DNC DD potential anymore. The role isn't to compete other DD jobs but to support them and to do that, DNC does need to shine in supporting and screw who's toes DNC might step on. Not asking to take over their role, but seriously make them good at what they're suppose to do.

[Asymptotic]

Yeah, DNC doesn't really need DD enhancements. I still support the "Glissade" ability to string flourishes together, but to be honest I'm actually surprised we don't already have that. It would be a moderate increase to damage output considering that it could be used on Flourishes III and to make solo skillchains stronger, but it has other uses as well.

As a DNC, I want to be able to enable my party to deal more damage. As it stands we almost hinder it.

[FrankReynolds]

nobody ever asks me to switch from thief to dancer, or vice versa. Its always "Can you come BLM/BRD? or WHM?"

[Byrth]

Oh, I guess I should have said this earlier, but Ternary, Climactic, Striking, and Sneak Attack all share the same slot so multiple ones can't be active at the same time.

[Soranika]

nobody ever asks me to switch from thief to dancer, or vice versa. Its always "Can you come BLM/BRD? or WHM?"
If you're trying to ensure yellow drops like seals and +2 stuff, then of course NIN, BLU, BLM/BRD, and WHM will always be considered. But to increase those drops, a THF is still needed. The issue with the drops is usually who gets what, some one would be left out.... unless people in the group might be helping a friend and don't need anything.

[Asymptotic]

Oh, I guess I should have said this earlier, but Ternary, Climactic, Striking, and Sneak Attack all share the same slot so multiple ones can't be active at the same time.

That couldn't be too horrible of a thing to fix.

Edit: inb4 they do split them into stackable statuses and we get a glitch along the lines of the undead cure thing~

[FrankReynolds]

If you're trying to ensure yellow drops like seals and +2 stuff, then of course NIN, BLU, BLM/BRD, and WHM will always be considered. But to increase those drops, a THF is still needed. The issue with the drops is usually who gets what, some one would be left out.... unless people in the group might be helping a friend and don't need anything.

WHM/THF ( or any of the other party members /thf) will yield the same results without needing another person. Really, if anyone in the group can sub thf, then you don't need the thf.

[Deathrose]

Love the idea of A ma guise and Glissade. These would really allow dancer to unsheath its claws, especially with that arcane flourish. Climactic Flourish+ Arcane Flourish(wait for hit) + Trenary Flourish + No Foot Rise + Rudra's Storm x2= They will feel and remember this next one I promise lmao. Great ideas ^^. One thing though Dev team.... please make alexandrite quicker to obtain through means other than buying it. You can Leave ein and nyzul as is, but it should not take years to obtain one weapon for those who do things like work and live outside of ffxi. It makes me cry that should Contrecorp be actually used some hard working ppl(like me) would be behind the curve cause of nonesense like that ; ;. Maybe free access to Salvage while keeping the assault pt nessecity to give some kind of limitations but not time restraints. All you people working on Terpischore like me know what I mean.

[Asymptotic]

Actually, when I originally wrote this we were still all under the impression that Terpsichore 90+ gave 5 finishing moves per step, as it turns out, the bonus never goes past adding one additional finishing move per step so it's really not that much of a difference in the end, as far as that ability would be concerned.

[Shotaro1]

I like the idea of having a Dispel Flourish. And an ability that enhances the enfeeb flourishes (Violent, Desperate, and even Animated)

This ability would make the stun duration longer on violent, increase accuracy and duration of weight on desperate, and increase amount of emnity gain on animated or something. And for an added dispel flourish, it will have a CHANCE of dispelling more than 1 thing. I think making always dispel more than one would be pretty busted.

Well those are my crappy 2 cents. lol

[Soranika]

Any enfeeb flourish over the DD flourishes would have been nice. But it seems SE is scared to add new tier I flourishes. Or even tier II... They know then can go back and add in new abilities at lower/previous levels. I dunno why they don't do it already.

[Absit]

Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00)
^
One thousand times this! But one minor twink. Make it low level. Somewhere between 5~45. As I would like to use this while having Dnc subbed with my Blu, making it all the more useful.

[Asymptotic]

^
One thousand times this! But one minor twink. Make it low level. Somewhere between 5~45. As I would like to use this while having Dnc subbed with my Blu, making it all the more useful.

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.

[Moonracer]

Suggestions for Job Abilities

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

Speaking as an often main job DNC (second in loves only trumped by PLD) I can see the potential of everything, and would love it. But this one, though I love its potential, and would personally be very evil with it, could be a break. Thinking more on its use, this could set up a double skillchain, meaning that given the right conditions, dnc could easily create a double darkness skillchain by himself. If you think of potential, even more so in abyssea, that would put dnc damage potential, potentially the same as a SAM. Now, as I said, i'm not really against it, just tryin to balance it. The 5 min recast keeps it from being a true breaker, but this would mean that it would also have to be unmeritable if they implemented this, and added a slew of new stuff for 99 merits. Thoughts?

[Asymptotic]

You can already set up double darkness by yourself if you sub /SAM and use Sekkanoki. I actually had the timers of Sekkanoki and Meditate/No Foot Rise on my mind when I designed these abilities.

For reference:

Sekkanoki --> Evisceration ---> Climactic Flourish ---> Rudra's Storm (Darkness)---> No Foot Rise ----> Reverse Flourish ---> Rudra's Storm (Darkness^2)

There are other ways to get the FMs/TP for the second WS (Presto/step +2 attack rounds while running haste/saber dance) but it's easier to write that out as above ^_^

To be honest, despite the immense damage output, it's rarely (if ever) worth the effort of setting up. It's also nearly impossible to set up on anything difficult (unless you're under the effects of a Fanatic's Drink) because you don't have any leeway on timing windows to keep yourself alive.

[Shibayama]

To be honest, As awesome as having crazy double darkness skillchains would be, I don't think that would do anything to bring dancer out as a more desireable job - especially because dagger weaponskills tend to not do so hot against high level mobs. A fix to our heals and better frontline support would be a good solution to dancer's current problem.

[Absit]

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.
I stick by my guns...low level ability...

[Ordoric]

yes i think they should add a low lvl ability, and they should steal an idea from solas and misery LOCK IT OUT WHEN ITS SET AS SUB HA HAHHA.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.

Easy enough to gimp it for subjob if they really wanted too.

Personally it wouldn't be that great, so I'm all for it being DNC exclusive, that said DNC really needs unique abilities, this just basically steals from WHM's Devotion.

[Asymptotic]

To be honest, As awesome as having crazy double darkness skillchains would be, I don't think that would do anything to bring dancer out as a more desireable job - especially because dagger weaponskills tend to not do so hot against high level mobs. A fix to our heals and better frontline support would be a good solution to dancer's current problem.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/FFXI2/qilrud.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/FFXI2/yata.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/FFXI2/voidwatch2.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/FFXI2/akvanr.png

The ability to force a crit actually does wonders for dagger WS against high level targets. DNC has the additional strength of being able to sent attack through the roof for a single WS.

The A ma guise / Glissade suggestions obviously do offer some increased damage potential on a timer, but the main purpose is to provide some additional utility to the flourishes we already have.

That said, I agree with you hence the nature of most of these suggestions leaning toward support.

[Asymptotic]

I stick by my guns...low level ability...

Additionally when I said "target party member" that was meant to mean that you can't self-target it, so the purpose you were suggesting wouldn't work anyhow.

[Asymptotic]

Easy enough to gimp it for subjob if they really wanted too.

Personally it wouldn't be that great, so I'm all for it being DNC exclusive, that said DNC really needs unique abilities, this just basically steals from WHM's Devotion.

I guess they shouldn't give DNC the foreshadowed regain ability, because that would steal from SCH's Adloquium.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I guess they shouldn't give DNC the foreshadowed regain ability, because that would steal from SCH's Adloquium.

I stated they need "unique abilities" I never said they can't have abilities that other jobs have. If I said that it'd remove 99% of their abilities.

[Soranika]

Nothing wrong with blurring the lines between jobs for some specific abilities. For example, SAM's Konzen-ittai is copy of DNC's Wild Flourish. Would it be looked down upon of DNC borrowed something like SAM's Shikikoyo.

Actually probably would. Lot's of people SAM would cry foul but... how many SAMs are willing to give 100% of their TP to another... or DNC getting it without merits... Yet it does seem like a fit for DNC to have too... I'll shut up about that.

[Asymptotic]

I don't think an exact borrowing of Shikokyo (by exact borrowing I mean trades DNC TP to give another player TP) is really that great for DNC's concept.

Still, a way to shoot TP at party members would be nice and I envisioned it as a flourish, consuming FMs. Basically I designed it to be "sort of like reverse flourish, but not self-targeted."

[Juri_Licious]

Excellent ideas and thanks for mentioning my thread!
Hopefully these ideas won't get shot down this time by the devs.

Dancer currently, doesn't get invited to any parties anywhere in the game. Maybe voidwatch for weaknesses but I haven't seen it yet. I pretty much play solo on DNC 98% of the time due to the fact that THF or NIN get into Abyssea parties, THF gets invited everywhere else pretty much.

A DNC role these days is pretty much a solo one, unless you whine and whine and you find someone who is being nice that lets you in the party. (Which is rare) More attack options does sound wonderful.

[Soranika]

I picked up DNC post 75+ level cap.... it makes me sad and regret never leveling the job before then when groups loved them.

[Kennx]

Okay I was checking out some of the old FF games and... they should apply some of these to dancer.

Dancer (Tactics)

Slow Dance: Dance lowers enemies' Speed level by confusing them with slow dance movements.

Polka Polka: Dance with vivacious moves. Lowers physical attack power.

Disillusion: Dance lowers enemies' magic attack power by distracting them with a mysterious costume.

Nameless Dance: Dance with unexplainable moves. Causes various abnormal status.

Last Dance: Ultimate dance. Turns enemies' TP(normally was CT) count to 0.

(FFX-2)

Sleepy Shuffle: This dance will lull enemies to Sleep.

Dirty Dancing: This dance, will allow the party to hit with critical hits within a time constraint.

Carnival Cancan: This dance allows all party members to have double their normal amount of HP.

MP Mambo: While this is performed, all allies can use MP freely at no cost.

Tempting Tango: Inflicts Charm on one opponent.

Just some Idea's of what dancer used to bring to the table... and why we loved them.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Okay I was checking out some of the old FF games and... they should apply some of these to dancer.

Dancer (Tactics)

Slow Dance: Dance lowers enemies' Speed level by confusing them with slow dance movements.

Polka Polka: Dance with vivacious moves. Lowers physical attack power.

Disillusion: Dance lowers enemies' magic attack power by distracting them with a mysterious costume.

Nameless Dance: Dance with unexplainable moves. Causes various abnormal status.

Last Dance: Ultimate dance. Turns enemies' TP(normally was CT) count to 0.

(FFX-2)

Sleepy Shuffle: This dance will lull enemies to Sleep.

Dirty Dancing: This dance, will allow the party to hit with critical hits within a time constraint.

Carnival Cancan: This dance allows all party members to have double their normal amount of HP.

MP Mambo: While this is performed, all allies can use MP freely at no cost.

Tempting Tango: Inflicts Charm on one opponent.

Just some Idea's of what dancer used to bring to the table... and why we loved them.

Almost all are too powerful in a MMORPG.

[Atomic_Skull]

DNC should get:

Quadruple Attack (more TP)

Treasure Hunter III (RNG already gets this in the form of Bounty Shot so giving it to DNC wouldn't break anything)

Change the Thief's Knife to THF/DNC.

Add Treasure Hunter +2 to Charis Tiara.

This way DNC has TH and a reason to be in endgame , but it's still one tier lower than THF so that THF won't be replaced.

[Lokithor]

DNC should get:

Quadruple Attack (more TP)

Treasure Hunter III (RNG already gets this in the form of Bounty Shot so giving it to DNC wouldn't break anything)

Change the Thief's Knife to THF/DNC.

Add Treasure Hunter +2 to Charis Tiara.

This way DNC has TH and a reason to be in endgame , but it's still one tier lower than THF so that THF won't be replaced.
Ya, thieves won't mind all of this at all!

[Soranika]

>.> Atomic is trollin'.

[Atomic_Skull]

Ya, thieves won't mind all of this at all!


They gave RNG and BST Treasure Hunter III so why not DNC? It's not like it's going to hurt anything if they've already given it to other jobs already.

As for thief's knife, it's a dagger and DNCs are dagger based. And if they also have TH3 then it only makes sense that they would be able to equip the thief's knife.

[Soranika]

They gave RNG Treasure Hunter III so why not DNC? It's not like it's going to hurt anything.RNG and COR are the closest things to thieves because of the nature of their jobs. RNGs hunt and scavenge. CORs are pirates... can't get get away with not having a way to increase drops.

DNCs aren't there to "steal" stuff or increase drop rates.... They aren't gypsies. Uh, no offence to real gypsies. >.<

[Atomic_Skull]

RNG and COR are the closest things to thieves because of the nature of their jobs. RNGs hunt and scavenge. CORs are pirates... can't get get away with not having a way to increase drops.

DNCs aren't there to "steal" stuff or increase drop rates.... They aren't gypsies. Uh, no offence to real gypsies. >.<

Something along those lines is exactly why I was thinking they should have treasure hunter. Traveling shows, carnie folk, etc fits right in with DNCs image.

[Lokithor]

If you want to be a thief, level thief. I don't see thieves bitchin about not having the ability to cure, haste, self skill chain, ...

[Byrth]

I realize it's hard to detect sarcasm over the internet, but the last few posts have been heavy with it.

[Lokithor]

Thieves are ironically frustrated with only being seen as having value for TH while at the same time concerned that their unique values are being constantly eroded. SE has been inexorably giving more and more of what used to be thf exclusive abilities to other jobs, including (and especially) dancer.

What players and developers should be concentrating on are advancements to jobs that keep to the job's character, not just taking other jobs' abilities and spreading them around under different JA names.

I have DNC, THF, RNG, BLM and BRD leveled. I like the uniqueness of each. Please don't turn my DNC into a THF clone.

[Soranika]

I look at it from the perspective that diluting the job usage a little bit opens up opportunities for other jobs to get invited if another is absent, but SE hasn't handled that properly since 76+. THF should be use to being TH whores (pardon my french) because no one has exactly been inviting a THF because of their fantastic DD prowess over the years. But RNG and COR could never really replace a THFs spot, even if some would argue that there's no difference between TH4 and TH7. (Loose generalization.)

DNC weren't exactly invited for DD prowess either and now that we have abilities that step up our game, we're all solo monsters because the one thing DNC was suppose to be very well at got snubbed, the support roll. I dunno about the rest of you, but I choose DNC as my first melee job cause it was still mostly support and I like support roles. I like saving my TP to support rather than DD when I'm in a party.... If I'm ever in a party. >.<

[Asymptotic]

Obligatory complaint about nothing new yet announced for DNC for 99 update.

[Dohati]

dispel flourish. plz plz plz. ice spikes always screws me over so bad on dnc.

[Calysto]

some suggestions :

first, what about real dnc flourishes instead of thf flourishes ?

-waltz-ga flourish : make the next waltz aoe, but consume double/triple tp - all finishing move / long recast
-divine seal flourish : make the next waltz heal more, but consume double tp - all finishing move / long recast
-quick flourish : reduce recast of next waltz - 1 or 2 finishing move / somewhat short recast
-cheap flourish : reduce tp cost of next waltz - 1 or 2 finishing move

some new samba :
drain samba 4
aspir samba 3 ?
haste samba 2
tp samba ?

raise waltz/jig

new steps :
att down
acc down
m.def down
m.att down
m.acc down
store tp down
beginner step(step on self, minor effect if at all, only give 1 finishing move, cost 0 tp, recast 1 mn or more)

new flourish 1
dispel flourish
charm flourish ? (100% passive pet) (as lesser crowd control option. 1~5 finishing move lasting ~10s/fm)

new flourish 2
ws flourish (use 5 finishing move to perform a weaponskill, somewhat long recast)

waltz changes
healing waltz :remove petrify, chances to remove doom
remove, set a lower penalty(5s ?) or at least halve the recast when a waltz is paralyzed

changes to merits :
-haste samba : make base haste samba for main job be 10% and sub job 5% from the start. change merit to "samba duration".
-change step accuracy to step potency ?(i'd say almost nobody ever merited it because you HAVE to merit haste samba and reverse flourish atm)

stances
soothing dance : reduce waltz recast but render steps and/or flourishes unusables
sapping dance : let normal attack inflict a random "daze" to the foe. impair tp gain(first attack of round can give +1 to a step daze. somewhat like thf th system, only with highter proc rate)

misc :
fix waltz recasts
increase max finishing moves
let conserve tp works on dances
increase step range
let steps works when not engaged
increase samba duration
let presto stack like boost

[reudant]

This but a tiny request. A minor thing that anoys me to no end. When I have running set to automatic, if I want to kick in Chocobo Jig, my PC stops running, and does the Chocobo Jig like normal (and I understand the need to stop running to do the Jig) but then my PC continues to run but at the slower pace that I was running at before I did the Jig. I have to stop running, then start running again before the Chocobo Jig fully kicks in and my pace quickens. This to me is stupid. Is this such a big deal that you all cannot adjust?

[FrankReynolds]

This but a tiny request. A minor thing that anoys me to no end. When I have running set to automatic, if I want to kick in Chocobo Jig, my PC stops running, and does the Chocobo Jig like normal (and I understand the need to stop running to do the Jig) but then my PC continues to run but at the slower pace that I was running at before I did the Jig. I have to stop running, then start running again before the Chocobo Jig fully kicks in and my pace quickens. This to me is stupid. Is this such a big deal that you all cannot adjust?

Probably should move this to a separate thread since it is due to a game mechanic, and not dancer specifically (I think SE already responded to a thread requesting that spell animations not cause people to freeze, which is the same mechanic at work here.).

[Zhronne]

I concur with several of the suggestions put in here.

New Aspir Samba at least, maybe new Drain Samba too? TP Samba would be cool as well.
Also something has to be done for Waltzes.
The recast of Healing Waltz and Curing Waltz V (could say IV as well) is definitely too high. Since I'm 99% sure SE will never agree to split the timers, at least they should give us more equipment with -waltz recast.
Currently we only have Anwig Salade, and for only -2 seconds.
Having a couple more options would be nice.

Also, if they don't want to release a Healing Waltz II they should at least release some healing waltz enhancing gear that allows us to remove 2 effects at the same time, and making so Healing Waltz works on a greater range of debuffs would be nice as well (for example the BRD ones...)

I'd love a new Jig as well, the category looks almost wasted with only 2 of them, altough honestly I wouldn't know what to ask for.
Still think they should double the basic minimum lenght of Spectral Jig, at least for DNC main. Even with AF2 legs + AF1 feet it's still pretty ridiculous.


Don't really think DNC needs anything in particular aside from a few tweaks, it's a pretty fantastic and underestimated job. Just needs a few fixes (Trance lenght as well, imho).
Personally I'd love being able to save more than 5 moves, raising that limit (while making so that Flourishes can't consume more than 5, like now) would really open up some interesting options and would make gameplay smoother, but alas that's not going to happen :p

[Calatilla]

dispel flourish. plz plz plz. ice spikes always screws me over so bad on dnc.


NO...SE already said separating aura steal and steal would be way overpowered for thf, even on a 5min timer.
Giving dnc the ability to dispel a buff every 1min(or w/e the recast would be, sure as hell wont be a 5min JA). How is that different?

[FrankReynolds]

NO...SE already said separating aura steal and steal would be way overpowered for thf, even on a 5min timer.
Giving dnc the ability to dispel a buff every 1min(or w/e the recast would be, sure as hell wont be a 5min JA). How is that different?

Because this is dancer. SE just loves to troll thief. :P

[Zhronne]

In all honesty it wouldn't seem particularly broken or unbalanced to have a Flourish that causes Dispel, of course it can get resisted just like Violent Flourish. I imagine it to be very similar to that one, physical accuracy for the hit to land, magical accuracy for the dispel effect to occur.
Altough that would kinda break consistancy with Flourishes... all 3 groups have 3 flourish inside, making so one of those groups has 4 would make the OCD in me cry!

PUP already has a mana-free dispel that's pretty effective btw, without any particular restrictions.

[Byrth]

I want Wild Flourish to take priority over skillchain properties from weapons so I can land it in Voidwatch without "having no effect" or making everyone turn around. The only time I get to proc with this is when it is white.

[Eri]

I wont annoy you today Asymptotic, at least not a lot. I don't agree with split timers BUT some of the other Ideas in this thread are tempting! On a sidenote: ever thought we should get Portia's 2H ? And Lilisettes Dagger Stance lol....

[Deathrose]

Im curious as to what SE expects us to solo at this point. Most content at this point that actually matters short of currency farming is much too hard for dnc to solo, unless you intend to give us the boost nessecary to do so, which I highly doubt seeing as ppl find dnc to somehow gain a bit of over-poweredness from even the slightest boost. So if you would be so kind as to specify on what you intend on us soloing that would be great, so I can not get my hopes up in assuming that one day you will realize that we are in need of the nessecary boost to bring dnc out of the solo only job class(Would love dnc to be wanted more for VW and other large scale battles like sch has now become).

[MiriOhki]

Halle-frickin'-lujah! Fan Dance is gonna decrease waltz recast times? To heck with saber dance, I'm going fan 5/5!

[Asymptotic]

Yeah, the ability that kills half of your support ability (no sambas) and increases your enmity! Saber 5/5 will still be standard due to Etoile+2.

[Wesa]

Interesting question here, because on reflection, it's not quite clear to me, especially knowing that this has been translated: When saber dance increases the "effect duration" of sambas, does that mean:

a) The "samba" effect lasts longer on the DNC, or
b) The "daze" effect lasts longer on the target?

I suspect it is the former, but the latter could have some interesting possibilities.

[Asymptotic]

We would like to assume #1, but you never know how SE will botch things, Wesa!

[Rukkirii]

Interesting question here, because on reflection, it's not quite clear to me, especially knowing that this has been translated: When saber dance increases the "effect duration" of sambas, does that mean:

a) The "samba" effect lasts longer on the DNC, or
b) The "daze" effect lasts longer on the target?

I suspect it is the former, but the latter could have some interesting possibilities.

Sorry for the confusion! The adjustment is a), the duration of the "samba" effect will last longer on the DNC, not the targets daze effect. ^^

[Shibayama]

So then the question on my mind right now is: When will the 96-99 JA's for Dnc (and pretty much every other job aside from Blu and a handful of other jobs) be implimented. The roadmap lists a handful of jobs that are getting particular adjustments, but no word on new abilities other than SMN getting Cait Sith.

I know they don't usually put JA/Spell implimentation on the Roadmaps but considering how long it's been since the 99 cap increase and how few jobs got any new abilities I really do hope that we won't have to wait until 2013 to see the non-merit level-up abilities. My boyfriend is a Blu so it's been a bit of a bitter subject haha...


Also where is that Ternary Flourish usability growth/gear we were told about in October?

[Asymptotic]

It's sitting in the corner with the Pet: Treasure Hunter+ gear.

[Deathrose]

I got to thinking about some changes to help dnc performance in vw/end-game settings. I would like to see more AoE buffs in regards to atk boost, dbl atk, crit rate, acc boost. I am fully aware that the steps we have give a majority of those boost, which I still believe as dnc main our steps should be a bit more potent than /dnc, but i digress. I just want to be able to further boost my parties dmg rate and maybe even add some dmg reduction moves. I dont expect these abilities to be too potent but I do want them to be easily noticable by eye if you understand what I mean. I think someone brought up the conversation of aura effects for dnc, but SE said that auras cant be over-written. For the most part even if a mob applies an effect such as atk dwn for example it would just reduce the potency of the arua till the effect was removed. So the issue of it not being able to be over-written is a moot point. What you could also do is potentially make this a alliance wide effect and stack with multiple dnc, something like cor and rolls. One problem that i am seeing here though is that auras (as we have seen with the vw bodies) have a small affect radius and could cause an issue if making a alliance wide effect unless you slightly made the radius larger. These auras can be put in one category like all our other abilities and be limited to one up at a time. The trade off for these dances is, of course, tp and possibly have a base duration of sambas without duration boost gear. The duration would leave room for adding gear similar to samba gear. Adding abilities like these would be a much welcomed improvement to the dnc arsenal and putting it in its role of a melee support job by not only improving its own performance but also improving the rest of the parties performance like we were made to do, thats our job to support our party while adding a bit more dps in the mix. Please consider this SE I think most ppl will agree on these ideas and feel that these will fit the dnc role perfectly as well.


P.S- I know cor rolls dont go alliance wide i was just using them as an example for effect stacking.

[Andreah]

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

If you don't mind, I'd like to have a small discussion with you about this proposed ability.

I like the idea you're going for when it comes to this ability, but it seems to lack some balance to it. Dancer in this "mode" could effectively mitigate at a full 5 Finishing Moves practically any and all damage coming towards them. It's not hard to continually stack Finishing Moves in most situations unless Step Accuracy against the mob you're fighting is a major factor even without a Terpsichore. With that and the notion that less damage taken means less waltzes and less enmity gained overall, this ability seems to take a turn from aiding a Dancer's already well-padded survival skills to making them impossible to kill so long as the circumstances are met, especially with any Damage taken gear stacked onto the build.

It's a great idea, especially in a magic damage situation where Dancer's will usually eat dirt faster than most front-lines, but it seems a little too overpowered for practical use with a five minute duration on a five minute timer. Perhaps lowering the percentage it removes or decreasing the duration a bit?

[Ezikiel]

Suggestions for Job Abilities

Something Completely New!

The following two abilities are designed to give use to some of the flourishes that we have mostly forgotten about as high-level Dancers. It's also aimed at solving the problem where one flourish in a category particularly outshines the others, preventing the others from seeing usage, ever. Perhaps breathing life into some of our old abilities is the key to solidifying the role of the class? I put them on a shared recast timer for balance concerns, but I think the 2nd ability will be much more popular than the first. Maybe separating them wouldn't be overpowered after all?

À ma guise Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with Glissade]
The next Flourish may be used without expending finishing moves.
** For finishing moves which can use differing numbers of finishing moves, it would use the lowest amount. It might be interesting to enhance this ability with a piece of equipment, adding one finishing move to the effect. The name means "As I please."

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

1.) Reverse ---> Step/No Foot Rise --> Building: would allow Dancers to buff the closing weapon skill of a solo skillchain.

2.) Ternary Flourish + Climactic Flourish --> This is pretty self-explanatory! Would certainly give a potential use to Ternary!

3.) Ternary Flourish + Striking Flourish --> Would result in a 4-hit attack, and allow enhancement from the Charis Casaque to the first and second hits. Also, then you wouldn't need to feel inclined to add a Quaternary Flourish. (Seriously, please don't give us a Quaternary Flourish)

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

6.) Wild Flourish --> Reverse Flourish --> Solo 2-step Skillchains. (Wild --> Evisceration --> Transfixion ---> Evisceration/Dancing Edge --> Distortion) etc.

There are countless other combinations, of course but I figured these were the ones best worth mentioning.

I have made my suggestions for the "TP-draining ability which gives party members some kind of effect" in the other suggestion thread multiple times, so I'm assuming Camate has already relayed that information :)

Flourishes IV

Since I'm assuming Flourishes III is over (seriously guys, It's over, time to move on!), we should start looking forward to Flourishes IV. Since Flourishes I were utility abilities, Flourishes II were self-enhancement abilities, and Flourishes III were aimed at increasing damage output, Flourishes IV should be party support abilities. Also, since it's Flourishes IV and presumably the last flourish category ever, I'm going to go crazy and put *4* flourishes here, one which is very silly, but could be fun.

Glittering Flourish: (3-5 Finishing Moves): Reduces the damage nearby party members take from a single magical attack. [Target: Self. Range: 20'] Reduces damage from the next magical attack by 30-40-50% (depending on number of finishing moves). Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits. (Recast 1:30) [PLEASE HAVE THE ANIMATION SHOWER THE PARTY WITH GLITTER]
Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party - Cannot target self]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00) Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits.
Tactical Flourish: (1-5 Finishing Moves): Restores the target party member's TP [Target - Party - Cannot target self]. 10 -25 -50 - 75 - 100 TP depending on the number of finishing moves expended. (Recast 2:00)
Arcane Flourish: (1 Finishing Move): Imbues your next attack with forbidden and poorly understood magic. (Recast 30s? 1m?)

Arcane Flourish would have a very unhelpful description, just for kicks, really. It would double the damage of your next normal attack (would not double the damage of a weapon skill) and attempt to inflict a random status ailment from a predetermined list. A critical hit under Arcane's effects would inflict more powerful status ailments. I haven't decided what sort of additional effects would be attached to arcane, but you could consider: defense down, magic defense down, evasion down, magic evasion down, critical hit evasion down (for normal hits) and more powerful effects such as strong slow and paralyze for a critical hit. You could use climactic to guarantee one of the better effects.

These are just my ideas for Flourishes IV, but I'd like others to give some ideas too :D

Addressing the Dangers of the Front Lines

The best thing I could come up with is sort of a stance. I actually think it's pretty neat, so maybe you'll like the idea too? Of course, one of the problems with reducing the damage taken by a Dancer is that it's already a good soloist, so you'd have to make it an ability that doesn't work solo, and I designed this ability with that in mind.

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

i like all of these

[Asymptotic]

If you don't mind, I'd like to have a small discussion with you about this proposed ability.

I like the idea you're going for when it comes to this ability, but it seems to lack some balance to it. Dancer in this "mode" could effectively mitigate at a full 5 Finishing Moves practically any and all damage coming towards them. It's not hard to continually stack Finishing Moves in most situations unless Step Accuracy against the mob you're fighting is a major factor even without a Terpsichore. With that and the notion that less damage taken means less waltzes and less enmity gained overall, this ability seems to take a turn from aiding a Dancer's already well-padded survival skills to making them impossible to kill so long as the circumstances are met, especially with any Damage taken gear stacked onto the build.

It's a great idea, especially in a magic damage situation where Dancer's will usually eat dirt faster than most front-lines, but it seems a little too overpowered for practical use with a five minute duration on a five minute timer. Perhaps lowering the percentage it removes or decreasing the duration a bit?

It wears off as soon as you reach the top of the hate list (Contrecorps refers to the "corps" or "body" of a ballet - the backup dancers). It's very difficult for a Dancer to actually do anything and stay under the radar. We cap hate pretty quickly through auto-attacks.

As an extension, it would have no effect solo because you'd always be at the top of the hate list.