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lllen
09-22-2011, 02:29 PM
So far nothing has impressed me in this update, did 2 90-95 jobs today in 4 hours plus full buffer, few more jobs to go. Tried Walk of Echoes....5 people in there and it was a train wreck of death...didn't like it before and since nothing drops in there I want, well I tried it and now I'm finished with it. Voidwatch really doesn't do anything for me, but will give it a try someday (trying not to read or listen to all the negatives re VW). The new hknm (or what ever they call the new battle grounds) well I like those types of fights looking forward to finding someone else who is willing to do them. Like pulling teeth to get people to them. I don't know, just seems like nothing exciting this time.

The 40 geodes for 1 agility on my dagger (same on other weapons I have 1 of something) won't run out to get those anytime soon, will wait till i collect them along the way, someday I will have enough.

I'm very disappointed that my rdm which has not been out of the mog house except to lvl up a couple of times a year is still in the mog house with its 5/5 +1 af, and 2/5 +2, now a totally useless job, we loss addle and gained a 5% or less proc spell on double attack, no one seems to be able to tell me if this is a self only or party spell, not that I will ever find out or use it.

Blue got some new spells, I enjoy getting the spells on a quiet afternoon. Maybe I'm judging everything by the excitement I got from Abyssea updates, may just be a hard act to follow.

Luso
09-22-2011, 02:34 PM
I believe Temper is only able to be cast on yourself, but I think you can only get this via an HKCNM battlefield as a spoil. Not too sure.

Luvbunny
09-22-2011, 05:55 PM
Agreed, the update is extremely lack luster, more or less is SE being terribly lazy. Voidwatch really need to be revamped to the same level of abyssea, seems like they will not be able to topple what is amazing about abyssea. Unless they manage to revamp the game and make it better, we are heading back to the dark days of 2003-2006

Runespider
09-22-2011, 06:46 PM
The updates are just going back to normal low standards, the kinda stuff we always got before Abyssea. Abyssea updates/expansions spoiled us all to have higher expectations, they have no intention of keeping up to the point they pushed the bar to though and are just going back to old ways.

It's back to adding cheap and easy content but making it really long and hard to get to pad it out as much as possible. New spells for instance, endgame content almost nobody will do or crappy magian upgrades = cheap easy way to keep your players running around the maze.

Problem with going back to the old cheap/easy updates is they spoiled us all with Abyssea time and players will not take kindly to lazy lackluster updates anymore, they just think they can timewarp back to old ways and forget the last couple of years.

MarkovChain
09-22-2011, 07:26 PM
We are not back to "old" content since, barring magian upgrades, the new gear is mostly inferior to previous gear. Anyone remember the excitement after salvage or limbus gear ? Voidwatch is just a collection of NMs with an easy progression and an artificial difficulty (proc requirement = many people), paired with not so good gear. Voidwatch is more like another tier of BCNMs, seing as the last tier drops are sellable. Also the fact that you don't actually get the gear but only crafting mat makes it seriously questionnable for a lot of people. Is it better to spam VW until your mats drops then find 2 crafters to make it or spent 5 millions (and the gear is not really worth that except RDM, but it's .. rdm). The only positive I see about VW is the fact that it's not a shared pool. If the drops where good it would be a success.

Vold
09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
People need to wake up and realize Abyssea was really just "I'm sorry for making you grind more because we didn't want to do another expansion pack" content. You have unrealistic expectations for a FF MMO to spoon feed you easy content post Abyssea.

We have our easier exp. We have our new replacement gear for our new levels that was easy to obtain. We're one level cap raise away from the new cap and the level 99 transition will be complete. The apology is over and done with. Welcome back to FFXI and LS driven content.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 02:42 AM
Really though SE, do you have a problem with giving us content worth doing?

Kaisha
09-23-2011, 02:46 AM
They didn't have a $10 add-on to charge us for content this time, of course there was nearly nothing to come from this update.

The days of getting a proper meaty content update every 2-3 months have been long gone ever since WoTG came out and took 4 years to complete.



Really though SE, do you have a problem with giving us content worth doing?
Gil/Items from WoE isn't incentive enough? VW loot is pretty good also. The main problem with FFXI right now is that it's in a transitional period until it hits 99-cap and the devs figure out wtf to do as far as new endgame goes.

That and half the playerbase has been spoiled by Abyssea and demands every new piece of content to be easy/low-man'able.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 02:49 AM
Where are all the people that were bitching about how easy Abyssea was? They're the ones you need to target.

Greatguardian
09-23-2011, 02:57 AM
Where are all the people that were bitching about how easy Abyssea was? They're the ones you need to target.

This.

The September update came bursting to the brim with content. It just requires more effort than logging in and picking up items from your delivery box. Voidwatch Part 2 is much bigger than part 1, and the fights are pretty awesome. New WoE is basically Campaign, and my server has huge hordes of people going nearly 24/7. The HKCNMs are extremely easy, and seem to be balanced around 2-3 man groups despite their 6-man entry limit, which essentially makes them noob-friendly.

There is plenty to do, even if you are casual. You just have to go do it.

Hayward
09-23-2011, 03:10 AM
Where are all the people that were bitching about how easy Abyssea was? They're the ones you need to target.

Thank you!

These are the same loudmouths who go on and on about how every player (but them) wear inferior gear--as though AF3+1/+2 are on the same plane as level 17 Lizard gear--and how everyone should have 2 or 3 Empyrean weapons (because everyone should be as connected as they are. I'm from Chicago, so don't bother trying to sell me that). To them, anything that is accessible to players who want it is "gimp" (quotes added because it's nonsense). To these people, anything worth having must involve some type of Ironman Triathlon-type of event that requires the most "efficient" of jobs.

I'm slowly working my way into this update and hope that there's more to this and any flaws are fixed.

MarkovChain
09-23-2011, 03:11 AM
More effort, more exciting, but worth less content ? K. If at least we knew HMP dropped there but no lol. Something people don't point out either is the major imbalance that the VU increase further. RDM no longer exists. THF is still a TH whore. 80% of the DD suck. WHM is overpowered. I mean did they really give bully to thieves... why not a worthwhile treasure hunter past, say, TH10?

Greatguardian
09-23-2011, 03:28 AM
Thank you!

These are the same loudmouths who go on and on about how every player (but them) wear inferior gear--as though AF3+1/+2 are on the same plane as level 17 Lizard gear--and how everyone should have 2 or 3 Empyrean weapons (because everyone should be as connected as they are. I'm from Chicago, so don't bother trying to sell me that). To them, anything that is accessible to players who want it is "gimp" (quotes added because it's nonsense). To these people, anything worth having must involve some type of Ironman Triathlon-type of event that requires the most "efficient" of jobs.

I'm slowly working my way into this update and hope that there's more to this and any flaws are fixed.

The irony in this post is hilarious because it's not BG-esque posters who called for harder content. Most of us don't give a crap how accessible content is, as long as it's fun. I'd be perfectly content if everyone in the game had everything I had and more. I don't need to justify my existence that way.

It was the casual playerbase who freaked out upon the release of Abyssea and has clamored over the Official Forums multiple times begging the Dev team to make harder content. Casual players were pissed off that anyone could have anything, because it made them unable to justify their existence. Casuals came in droves to protest Abyssea EXP because it took away from the "accomplishment" of having a level 75+ job. Casuals came in droves to protest Empyreans being easy to make, even though they'll never have one themselves.

I know you want to just blame everything on BG, because you hate them so much. Considering you're a socialite on Cerberus, I can understand why'd you have so much pent up aggression towards the HNM "class". But this move wasn't their fault. If anything, it was the fault of social, casual players who asked for this and begged the Devs to make things harder. People who touted around how amazing they were for beating CoP post-ToAU, and who begged for more RotZ-style content even though they probably never had a job past 50 until ToAU.

That said, Abyssea was likely only a temporary move anyways. FFXI has never been a WoW-clone, and even Cataclysm has been failing hard recently because it pursued an Abyssea-like EZ-mode for the entirety of the expansion. FFXI will never, ever be as ridiculously tedious and needlessly difficult as it was in the days of CoP. But it's not going to stay as braindead as it was during Abyssea either. People are just going to have to get over that, and stop trying to blame others for what they did to themselves.

Kaisha
09-23-2011, 03:34 AM
I like hard content. I just don't like drop rates that make even Jailer Torques look more viable of obtaining.

Mahoro
09-23-2011, 03:51 AM
More effort, more exciting, but worth less content ? K. If at least we knew HMP dropped there but no lol. Something people don't point out either is the major imbalance that the VU increase further. RDM no longer exists. THF is still a TH whore. 80% of the DD suck. WHM is overpowered. I mean did they really give bully to thieves... why not a worthwhile treasure hunter past, say, TH10?

You can pretty much assume Heavy Metal Plates drop in Voidwatch by simple process of elimination, and not even taking into consideration the JP blog evidence people are tossing around.

People have been swarming WoE and haven't reported HMPs. People have been swarming Abyssea and haven't reported HMPs. Likewise, no reports from the KCNM's people have been doing, and it wouldn't make sense anyway to have Magian items drop from content limited by Crests. Where ELSE could they come from, level 14 mobs in Ranguemont Pass? Salvage? Einherjar? Nothing else makes sense.

I understand you think Voidwatch is "worthless." There are many people who would disagree. I'm not saying every single piece is best-in-slot or even a great sidegrade, but you have to recognize that there are many people who wanted certain key pieces from VW Part I, and just as many want some of the new pieces from VW Part II. How is this ANY different from the days of Sea, when LS's would go farming for hours on end to accrue pops for torques that only benefited two jobs at a time? Maybe people who are capped out on Abyssea for their jobs are ready to get those last few sidegrades/best-in-slots to tweak out their jobs instead of spending another night's /dozefest helping someone get AF3+2 for their 10th job. That is not even taking into consideration the fact that the battles are actually fun and challenging.

And hey, if anything else, doing VW is lucrative for a LS because even the unimpressive gear is quite rare and fetches millions on the AH from JP impulse buyers with 100,000,000's of millions lying around. :P

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 04:08 AM
That and half the playerbase has been spoiled by Abyssea and demands every new piece of content to be easy/low-man'able.

IDGAF how hard the content is to do, I just want an upgrade similar to

Byakko's Haidate (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/12818/byakkos-haidate) to this (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11124/rvg-cuisses-2)

What's wrong with sensible level progression?

Monchat
09-23-2011, 04:44 AM
level 75 --> 80 replaced 75% of the lv 75 cap gear, easilly. I expected this to be the case from 90 to 95, but here we are, new contentm but terrible rewards. No worries we will get soon dynamis+2 items. Then after that another update with amazing content!! oh wat, thats what people were saying in ff14. Every 2 weeks there would be an update that would fix everything!! 1 year after.. the game still in the same state.

Mahoro
09-23-2011, 05:15 AM
level 75 --> 80 replaced 75% of the lv 75 cap gear, easilly. I expected this to be the case from 90 to 95,

Then your expectations were patently unreasonable. I guarantee you that if gear was released now that would replace 75% of the Abyssea gear, you would hear howls (literally, HOWLS) from the playerbase about how all their hard work was rendered meaningless in such a short time. It is not surprising that the new 95 gear is a liberal mix of sidegrades and a few best-in-slot upgrades.

Whiskey
09-23-2011, 05:20 AM
Reactivated my account two days ago expecting to enjoy the next week or two leveling and skill capping my Ninja. 3 hours later I was 95 with all my skills maxed out. Logged off and haven't logged on since. What a waste of 15$.

FrankReynolds
09-23-2011, 05:30 AM
Reactivated my account two days ago expecting to enjoy the next week or two leveling and skill capping my Ninja. 3 hours later I was 95 with all my skills maxed out. Logged off and haven't logged on since. What a waste of 15$.

No one will miss you.

Whiskey
09-23-2011, 05:41 AM
I guess not?

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 05:44 AM
I wanted to have faith SE, but this crap, for everything you've done for the last 10 years, is getting tiring. Might give up on your games all together.

Except of course, anything that the Kingdom Hearts team does. Whoever the devs are for those games, I salute you as you are by far the best at what you do.

Whiskey
09-23-2011, 06:26 AM
I wanted to have faith SE, but this crap, for everything you've done for the last 10 years, is getting tiring. Might give up on your games all together.

Except of course, anything that the Kingdom Hearts team does. Whoever the devs are for those games, I salute you as you are by far the best at what you do.

Thumbs up for you! I don't play too many videogames these days but the KH series is always just so refreshing for me!

Kaisha
09-23-2011, 06:56 AM
level 75 --> 80 replaced 75% of the lv 75 cap gear, easilly. I expected this to be the case from 90 to 95, but here we are, new contentm but terrible rewards.
They'll be reserving any 'good' gear for a $10 add-on since it's instant-money for them.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 08:07 AM
80% of the DD suck. WHM is overpowered. I mean did they really give bully to thieves... why not a worthwhile treasure hunter past, say, TH10?

Agreed.


IDGAF how hard the content is to do, I just want an upgrade similar to

Byakko's Haidate (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/12818/byakkos-haidate) to this (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11124/rvg-cuisses-2)

What's wrong with sensible level progression?

It's not sensible to expect comparable upgrades seen from 75-85. Unlike the last update, they added tons of gear (For the classes that I play) that beats existing sets. You do have to recognize though that dragging people out of Abyssea means they're going to be stuck focusing on the same stats. That's the detriment of ceasing to have atmas supplementing gear.

Edit: The major point that people tend to miss when comparing Abyssea to new content is that new content directs people's motivations and options. You aren't doing VW (hence, not benefiting from VW) unless your prerogative is to fight those particular NMs. You could stroll through Abyssea for quests. You could do NMs. You could XP. You could farm for augmented items. If Abyssea were purely a system of people zoning in and fighting streams of (the same) NMs, the pack would not have been as dynamic. You can already see what I mean by how Abyssea slowly became that as people began to wrap up all other options.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 08:19 AM
It's not sensible to expect comparable upgrades seen from 75-85. Unlike the last update, they added tons of gear (For the classes that I play) that beats existing sets. You do have to recognize though that dragging people out of Abyssea means they're going to be stuck focusing on the same stats. That's the detriment of ceasing to have atmas supplementing gear.

Yeah I don't understand how that's not sensible. Same amount of levels, going higher means getting better stuff in general terms.

59 Haubergeon -> 72? Adaman Hauberk

75 Byakko's Haidate -> 83 Rvg Cuisses +2

89 Creed Cuirass +2 -> 95 Mekira Meikogai

the difference is negligable/worse considering loss in attack/accuracy in VW

Yugl
09-23-2011, 08:28 AM
Yeah I don't understand how that's not sensible. Same amount of levels, going higher means getting better stuff in general terms.

59 Haubergeon -> 72? Adaman Hauberk

75 Byakko's Haidate -> 83 Rvg Cuisses +2

89 Creed Cuirass +2 -> 95 Mekira Meikogai

the difference is negligable/worse considering loss in attack/accuracy in VW

70-75 stretch was supposedly the last stretch of the game (i.e. end game) and the transition from mid-levels to that (that being end game) certainly warrants gross improvements in stats. Similarly, the break from the compactness of the 75-era certainly warrants huge improvements. The transition will soon be from 95-99 (End game) and I expect that we'll see drastic improvements then. That said, we've received tons of gear that already beats particular items. The Mekira piece you listed is the best body PDT piece for DRG, for example.

Another note: Maybe in your culture 13 = 8 = 6, but where I'm from those are different numbers.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 08:39 AM
Another note: Maybe in your culture 13 = 8 = 6, but where I'm from those are different numbers.

lol what? Just because their different numbers doesn't mean the point doesn't stand. Level 80 gear blew level 75 gear out of the water, level 85 gear even more so, and the difference between 85 and 90 gear is basically the difference between Veloce Zuchetto and Zelus Tiara. The difference between 90 gear and 95 gear is minimal.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 09:31 AM
lol what? Just because their different numbers doesn't mean the point doesn't stand.

Except it completely matters. Your argument hinges on the fact that large jumps have been made and that these large jumps are concurrent with static level gains. They are not. They have different intervals, and thus, have different degrees of improvement.



Level 80 gear blew level 75 gear out of the water

What? I didn't have MNK/SAM/NIN leveled at the time, but I'm pretty sure Usukane still kicked ass around that period. Perle was an upgrade to many Homam classes, but was a minor boost considering the number of pieces at work. Some even had reason to avoid perle for the sake of higher haste returns. Teal wasn't beating Morrigan's/other pieces in almost every aspect. You're talking nonsense with this line since even this update brings more to the table than the 75 > 80 transition did.


level 85 gear even more so, and the difference between 85 and 90 gear is basically the difference between Veloce Zuchetto and Zelus Tiara.

The Tiara was only good for WAR and obscure builds at 90; almost everyone was using their respective AF3 helm. The "major" change was from LV75 (In some cases 80 or less than 75) pieces, namely the hands and body. To simplify this for you, the main reason 85-90 made such a leap was because LV85 excluded "grand" gains from certain slots. This means slots untouched by 85's bold changes were remnant of level 75/80 gear. Since level 80 gear wasn't that grand of a change (HI THERE MND+1 TO MY GOODIES), it was easy for level 90 gear to be both level progressive and bring about grand improvement. With all the slots covered, however, it's difficult to justify a boost on that scale within five levels.

Molech
09-23-2011, 10:20 AM
So how is this any different than SE trolling people?

Raise expectations with Abyssea content, raise the bar very high to recoop some subs by going against their entire design philosophy over the games life then at the highest point of bliss they give the game back to the CoP dev's and push out very lackluster content setting up the ultimate low to bring everyone down off the high.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Except it doesn't matter, at this stage in the game the player base needs new shinies, tons of new goals that are worth getting, to have incentive to stay here. Specially when there's things like Diablo III and MW3 coming out in the near future.

I don't see how any of your points change the fact that 80% of this new gear is nearly downgrades rather than upgrades, and are at the most slight upgrades. Other than the cloth body, and the Heavy body for non-PLD jobs in PDT/MDT sets, there's nothing significant enough to get the general population of this game to want to go get them. Looking at the list I can literally count on my fingers the amount of things that are at the most a slight upgrade. Several of them are weapons, which are always downgrades if not Relic/Mythic/Emp/WoE but not everyone has that for every job they have well geared.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 11:24 AM
It matters for your argument, which you've now changed because I shot down its premise. If you don't see how what I've said explains why we aren't witnessing the extraordinary boost in gear stats that we did at LV85, then you need to reread again and again until you get it because I don't think I can make it simpler without offending you. There are a ton of upgrade pieces this update (Including a tier-breaking H2H ear); I don't see how you get off saying the stuff you do.

Molech
09-23-2011, 11:48 AM
This update might of been extremely lackluster but we'll need to see the grandscope of things from 95-99.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 12:38 PM
This update might of been extremely lackluster but we'll need to see the grandscope of things from 95-99.

I hope so, because this update was "extremely lackluster" right Yugl?

Like I said, only a handful of small upgrades, the earring being one.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 02:52 PM
If you only see a handful, then you're probably gearing wrong.

Malamasala
09-23-2011, 03:20 PM
IDGAF how hard the content is to do, I just want an upgrade similar to

Byakko's Haidate (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/12818/byakkos-haidate) to this (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11124/rvg-cuisses-2)

What's wrong with sensible level progression?

Welcome to Summoner's world. Where you only get good armors and weapons every 4 years.

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 03:32 PM
If you only see a handful, then you're probably gearing wrong.

If you see more than a handful, then you're probably gearing wrong.

The biggest upgrade is probably chersos helm, for war anyway, and it's only 1% better in haste and pdt than an augmented genbu's kabuto.

Tons of niche stuff I suppose, but something really worth sinking time into? I think not.

Ahrana
09-23-2011, 03:33 PM
I just double checked the data mined gear. I saw about ten pieces that I would take for my mains (whm, sch) but only 2 or 3 of those are solid upgrades. If I wanted to blow out my inventory I could probably take another 4 or 5, but I'm sure as heck not putting any effort into getting them with another level cap increase on the horizon somewhere.

MarkovChain
09-23-2011, 04:06 PM
(Including a tier-breaking H2H ear);

That was mathemacally proven to be inferior to other gear. It's not enough to show off shiny stats, there is math behind, and math tells you that moonshade earring surpasses it.

Yugl
09-23-2011, 04:08 PM
If you see more than a handful, then you're probably gearing wrong.

In other words, you pose the "Nu uh" comeback.

There's a universal cure body piece for RDMs, SCHs, and BLM to boot. A new PDT piece for DRG (And maybe even the other classes listed on that piece). Various accessories including that H2H piece and 7ATT/Wyvern DT for DRG. The helm accompanying the PDT body is good for WSs sets without a critical hit focus (i.e. for NMs you're close to floored critical hits against). Cure potency cape for RDM, SCH, and BLU. Ocelo for Benthic typhoon. Lenore for enmity cure sets. Torque for Alchemy and Smithing. Glassbelt for DRG breath moves. Two new skill up earrings. Fast cast ring. New sTP ring for those that were using the one from Tahrongi. Valseur any good for DNC? Aife Mantle for Benthic. Motenten found Ire+1 to beat the elemental gorgets and BB for belt (Nightfyre showing Anguinus in certain belts), so I imagine Justiciar will win in some of these cases, but I haven't calculated that yet. Phrenic for enmity certain cure sets (Depends on beginning set). Nefer Khat for SCH nukes for mix sets. Rauch for potency light enfeebles on SCH (And potentially RDM unless I'm forgetting a piece). Saevus for pure potency on SCH. Romanus for RDM? I don't recall any piece better than that.

I'm not going to even entertain this any further because it's pretty clear by now that you're wrong.


That was mathemacally proven to be inferior to other gear. It's not enough to show off shiny stats, there is math behind, and math tells you that moonshade earring surpasses it.

With which augments? Also, this depends on the fact that you're using moonshade for MNK.

MarkovChain
09-23-2011, 04:16 PM
regain and acc or att beats everything else. I believe a pure tanking earring counter+3 acc+3 surpass all others.

Monchat
09-23-2011, 05:11 PM
With which augments? Also, this depends on the fact that you're using moonshade for MNK.

First the H2H earring does not break a H2H tier, nor do the faith torque; you do break a tier by wearing both though, but getting +1 base dmg with two items is not so good. Check the MNK forums. So far looks like the best capped acc combo is the new kick dmg necklace+ moonshade (regain/att), and the best uncapped is (ziel charm+moonshade(acc/regain)).

Leonlionheart
09-23-2011, 05:24 PM
In other words, you pose the "Nu uh" comeback.

There's a universal cure body piece for RDMs, SCHs, and BLM to boot. A new PDT piece for DRG (And maybe even the other classes listed on that piece). Various accessories including that H2H piece and 7ATT/Wyvern DT for DRG. The helm accompanying the PDT body is good for WSs sets without a critical hit focus (i.e. for NMs you're close to floored critical hits against). Cure potency cape for RDM, SCH, and BLU. Ocelo for Benthic typhoon. Lenore for enmity cure sets. Torque for Alchemy and Smithing. Glassbelt for DRG breath moves. Two new skill up earrings. Fast cast ring. New sTP ring for those that were using the one from Tahrongi. Valseur any good for DNC? Aife Mantle for Benthic. Motenten found Ire+1 to beat the elemental gorgets and BB for belt (Nightfyre showing Anguinus in certain belts), so I imagine Justiciar will win in some of these cases, but I haven't calculated that yet. Phrenic for enmity certain cure sets (Depends on beginning set). Nefer Khat for SCH nukes for mix sets. Rauch for potency light enfeebles on SCH (And potentially RDM unless I'm forgetting a piece). Saevus for pure potency on SCH. Romanus for RDM? I don't recall any piece better than that.

I'm seeing niche pieces for a handful of jobs, no major upgrades besides some of the VW bodies/hats. Mostly Inventory -1, mostly things you will seldom use.

Better? Yes. But better in the sense of level progression that we've seen through out the rest of the game? No. Even if it is just 5 levels, you mentioned Hoard Ring Vs. the new Attack/STP ring. Yes it's better, but off the top of my head I can't think of one job that will benefit from it in the ideal set. WAR? 5hit will still require tactical mantle, so put your Blitz ring back on. SAM? 5hit requires haste sacrifices and you can 6hit w/ sword strap reliably, so go get a mars ring. DRK? Maybe for a Apocalypse build, but I don't get into that. Good if you're trying to push for a Cala 6hit, but you're still using tactical mantle and accuracy sacrifices so there's no way it'll be worth it.

85 and 90 content both brought in clearly superior pieces to anything we've seen before. Even 80 brought in things like Loki's Kaftan, 6% haste panties, and AF3 accessories.

Should everything in the update be far superior to previous gear? Maybe, maybe not. Should it show clear signs of level progression to make the average player want to spend 13$ a month? Yes.

Point is, this stuff isn't something that the average player is going to go gaga over like AF3+2. It's not as big of a jump, and it's harder. This isn't a good business model.

Runespider
09-23-2011, 07:08 PM
Considering we pay for these updates and how lazy and lack luster this one is will everyone be so forgiving if the 95-99 one is equally as crap?

Honestly the way the game has been changing over the last few months is realy worrying, XI is enjoying somewhat of a resurgence lately because of Abyssea and if they carry on in how they used to run the game before Abyssea they are going to lose not only all the people that came back but the long-time loyal players too.

They changed the game too much from Abyssea to have us accept low standards now, there is a difference between being offered oatmeal 24/7 forever to being offered a steak dinner for a year then trying to feed us oatmeal again.

Juri_Licious
09-23-2011, 07:26 PM
Ternary Flourish? WHY GOD WHY!?!??!?!?

MDenham
09-23-2011, 08:28 PM
there is a difference between being offered oatmeal 24/7 forever to being offered a steak dinner for a year then trying to feed us oatmeal again.I'm offended.

I happen to like oatmeal.

Rambus
09-23-2011, 10:08 PM
I wanted to have faith SE, but this crap, for everything you've done for the last 10 years, is getting tiring. Might give up on your games all together.

Except of course, anything that the Kingdom Hearts team does. Whoever the devs are for those games, I salute you as you are by far the best at what you do.

Ok, I really liked that post. As far as the update, I was not expecting a lot of new gear. In fact I really do not care about gear anymore like i did at 75. There is no point to it, there is nothing hard. There is no reason to balance elemental magic skill and int (example for what I mean). For you to strive for having a real goal (I need a Sorcerer's Petasos). You wanted and needed a Sorcerer's Petasos for that perfect balance to help kill hard mobs effectively. I have seen people abuse the word ' need' since the game started but now it is ridiculous. What I wanted from this update was fixing balancing issues with adding some new things to current stuff to do. So they added small amount of new things like I expected. What shocked me to no end was the lack of fixes to balance issues.

Game is still a fake 'progress' of being 95 base on a level 75 game. (Jobs do not progress properly; I am not talking about the content)

Malamasala
09-23-2011, 11:25 PM
Considering we pay for these updates and how lazy and lack luster this one is will everyone be so forgiving if the 95-99 one is equally as crap?

From what I can tell from some posters, even when 99 cap hits, they'll claim "there are plenty more updates in the future when the game will get good armors and balance updates". Because for some, infinity is the planned playing time.

Mahoro
09-23-2011, 11:52 PM
I'm seeing niche pieces for a handful of jobs, no major upgrades besides some of the VW bodies/hats. Mostly Inventory -1, mostly things you will seldom use.

Better? Yes. But better in the sense of level progression that we've seen through out the rest of the game? No. Even if it is just 5 levels, you mentioned Hoard Ring Vs. the new Attack/STP ring. Yes it's better, but off the top of my head I can't think of one job that will benefit from it in the ideal set. WAR? 5hit will still require tactical mantle, so put your Blitz ring back on. SAM? 5hit requires haste sacrifices and you can 6hit w/ sword strap reliably, so go get a mars ring. DRK? Maybe for a Apocalypse build, but I don't get into that. Good if you're trying to push for a Cala 6hit, but you're still using tactical mantle and accuracy sacrifices so there's no way it'll be worth it.

85 and 90 content both brought in clearly superior pieces to anything we've seen before. Even 80 brought in things like Loki's Kaftan, 6% haste panties, and AF3 accessories.

Should everything in the update be far superior to previous gear? Maybe, maybe not. Should it show clear signs of level progression to make the average player want to spend 13$ a month? Yes.

Point is, this stuff isn't something that the average player is going to go gaga over like AF3+2. It's not as big of a jump, and it's harder. This isn't a good business model.

It would be a far worse business model to put stuff into the game that eclipses AF3+2 only ONE year after Abyssea was implemented. WoW does this sometimes, but as I pointed out in another thread, there would be literal howls of protest from the FFXI playerbase if SE up and made your precious AF3+2 obsolete at this point. Yes, it's not as big of a jump. The new gear is a liberal mix of best-in-slot upgrades and sidegrades. Really, what ELSE did you expect?

For the people who live in Abyssea and want to work on AF3+2 for their umpteenth job, it's still there for you. For some of us, who have long since capped out on Abyssea and are looking for a new challenge and new gear to tweak out our jobs, SE just delivered some fun new content.

Kaisha
09-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Considering we pay for these updates and how lazy and lack luster this one is will everyone be so forgiving if the 95-99 one is equally as crap?

You pay for the maintaining of the servers, not the content.

The reason why everything has been lack luster is because they have no ongoing expansion pack that they stagger content out of over the period of 2-4 years as they have done repeatedly in the past. The story/abyssea add-ons were one-off deals that they charged for and had completed day 1 of their release (aside from post-patch tweaks which they still receive) so they can't really extend that content beyond what they budgeted.

If you want proper new content (rather than familiar NMs in old-locations with some new tricks that is Voidwatch), ask for them to consider another $40 expansion pack.

Runespider
09-23-2011, 11:56 PM
You pay for the maintaining of the servers, not the content.

No you don't, you pay for the wages of the update staff to update and maintain the game as well as all maint costs. Hence why FFXI still costs as much as brand new MMOs monthly. Or do you really think they only charge us the maint costs and we get updates for free?

Kaisha
09-24-2011, 12:02 AM
Update crew is just content creation to give incentive to keep playing, that's it. They spend money to make money.

FrankReynolds
09-24-2011, 12:06 AM
Wait!?! I pay for content? I thought this was life insurance.... damn.

xbobx
09-24-2011, 12:24 AM
People need to wake up and realize Abyssea was really just "I'm sorry for making you grind more because we didn't want to do another expansion pack" content. You have unrealistic expectations for a FF MMO to spoon feed you easy content post Abyssea.

We have our easier exp. We have our new replacement gear for our new levels that was easy to obtain. We're one level cap raise away from the new cap and the level 99 transition will be complete. The apology is over and done with. Welcome back to FFXI and LS driven content.

And so will the game be over and done with if they continue to charge us the current fee with lackluster support. this is not about the grinds to say, it is about hardly any content and what content is there, trying to hide it in long time sinks.

The game is on its last legs as it is, another crap update like this may just get people to pack it in. At least diablo 3 is expected by end of year or shortly after. Then there we be fun had looking for gear.

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 12:27 AM
And so will the game be over and done with if they continue to charge us the current fee with lackluster support. this is not about the grinds to say, it is about hardly any content and what content is there, trying to hide it in long time sinks.

The game is on its last legs as it is, another crap update like this may just get people to pack it in. At least diablo 3 is expected by end of year or shortly after. Then there we be fun had looking for gear.

They added a huge number of new VWNM, much bigger than part 1 and containing a lot of powerful new gear. Do these suddenly not count now?

xbobx
09-24-2011, 12:35 AM
Maybe that is a lot of content to you, but not to many of us, especially those that have no interest in VWNM. Compare this content to content from the past, go back years and look at what we use to get and what we get now. If you think it is comparable give your head a shake.
Content should be comparative considering the cost has not changed, they should keep up the same level of service as they once did, taking into consideration inflation.

and fyi, for those that are complaining the game is too casual and you want harder material etc. You do realize is they go back to that you might as well kiss this game goodbye. It is not the hardcore that keep this game going, it is all the casual players. You take away the casual content, you take away the casual players, and you might as well close the rest of the servers.
Many of us 7+ year players are done with the ridiculous grinds. We want to just try and enjoy ourselves in the game, which is more of a social thing for us then a game. I am sure many people feel this way

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 12:41 AM
Sorry, I forgot that ToAU added so much casual content.

Like Salvage.

And Einherjar.

And HNMs.

And Beast Kings.

And ZNMs.

That's the casual content you're talking about, right?

What about CoP? They added ......... wait, right, CoP had absolutely no casual content.

Just because you have no interest in content doesn't mean that there is no content.

xbobx
09-24-2011, 12:50 AM
How many years ago was Toau? Somehow you just teleported your self back a few years to create an argument. We are talking now not then. Toau was created when the game was at its peak or there abouts, hence the hardcore content. Maybe you didn't notice the paragraph separation. One was talking about content patches, the second about casual vs hardcore as it relates to the game now.

try again.

Kaisha
09-24-2011, 12:53 AM
What casual players? Only ones I knew of flocked back when Abyssea came out and made the MMO ez-mode because they couldn't stand the old grind of years ago.

This is an old MMO, it's not going to attract many 'modern' casual players at all.


You can't dismiss the hardcore playerbase as they're your guaranteed funnel of money since they're harder to turn-off from the game due to their timely investment.

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 01:03 AM
How many years ago was Toau? Somehow you just teleported your self back a few years to create an argument. We are talking now not then. Toau was created when the game was at its peak or there abouts, hence the hardcore content. Maybe you didn't notice the paragraph separation. One was talking about content patches, the second about casual vs hardcore as it relates to the game now.

try again.

So when you say "The past", you mean Abyssea?

You're mad because there isn't as much Casual bloody content as there was in Abyssea?

Go play WoW:Cataclysm. I'm told that's pretty much all of their content right now.

xbobx
09-24-2011, 02:30 AM
"So when you say "The past", you mean Abyssea?"

Nope, again you are mixing content and casual together. Maybe I should have split that post into two separate posts. You seem not to have the intellect to realize they are two separate conversations.

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 02:36 AM
The assertion that there was very little content released this patch is preposterous. There was a truckload of content. Plenty more than your standard "Free" Update. Obviously, Abyssea patches came with more because they were $10 add-ons and not vanilla updates.

You are just ignoring any content which you are not personally interested in, as are a lot of the people complaining. In that case, you shouldn't be saying "B'awwwwwwwwwww there's no content, I'm so mayad", you should be saying "B'awwwwwwwwwwwww, the content you released is too difficult for casuals, I'm so left out".

Leonlionheart
09-24-2011, 02:40 AM
The assertion that there was very little content released this patch is preposterous. There was a truckload of content. Plenty more than your standard "Free" Update. Obviously, Abyssea patches came with more because they were $10 add-ons and not vanilla updates.

You are just ignoring any content which you are not personally interested in, as are a lot of the people complaining. In that case, you shouldn't be saying "B'awwwwwwwwwww there's no content, I'm so mayad", you should be saying "B'awwwwwwwwwwwww, the content you released is too difficult for casuals, I'm so left out".

As if this new VW isn't the easiest thing in the world

I don't see how the Wivre, Bugard, Roc, or Gargoyle VWNMs could kill anyone ever

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 02:42 AM
As if this new VW isn't the easiest thing in the world

I don't see how the Wivre, Bugard, Roc, or Gargoyle VWNMs could kill anyone ever

See, in order for people to figure that out, they'd have to actually try the content.

It's like the HKCNMs. They're soooo hard to get to and kill, it's amazing anyone has any new spells at all.

Kaisha
09-24-2011, 02:43 AM
Greatguardian just thinks 27 stop-and-drop NMs amounts to a truck load of content when the majority of the NMs are just overall minor tweaks of existing NMs to be a hell lot more annoying for a group. Out of all 27, the only 'new' NM in the group is the mantis, which is tier-3 Jeuno.

What else did we get besides 4 more WoE arenas and more revamped zones for GoV goodness anyways?

Mahoro
09-24-2011, 02:48 AM
Greatguardian just thinks 27 stop-and-drop NMs amounts to a truck load of content when the majority of the NMs are just overall minor tweaks of existing NMs to be a hell lot more annoying for a group. Out of all 27, the only 'new' NM in the group is the mantis, which is tier-3 Jeuno.

What else did we get besides 4 more WoE arenas and more revamped zones for GoV goodness anyways?

To be fair, the criticism you just leveled against VW can apply to Abyssea as well. It's all about packaging. Abyssea felt like a truckload of content because of the huge concentration of drops, the Atmas, and the light system. But when you come right down to it, "the majority of the NMs are just overall minor tweaks of existing NMs to be a hell lot more annoying for a group. Out of all NM's, the only 'new' NM in the group is the Caturae." In Abyssea, you are killing the same mobs in a reskinned zone with new music and fancy lights.

Kaisha
09-24-2011, 02:51 AM
A lot of the main NMs in Abyssea were at least given additional move sets. I never claimed Abyssea was a lot of content also. At least even it had more things to waste time with though other than spamming NMs.

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 02:54 AM
Greatguardian just thinks 27 stop-and-drop NMs amounts to a truck load of content when the majority of the NMs are just overall minor tweaks of existing NMs to be a hell lot more annoying for a group. Out of all 27, the only 'new' NM in the group is the mantis, which is tier-3 Jeuno.

What else did we get besides 4 more WoE arenas and more revamped zones for GoV goodness anyways?

HKCNMs? Along with the 27 new fights, Atmacites, Periapts, new WoE drops, Trials for existing weapons, new Food and Crafting recipes, complete overhaul of the WoE system, revamp of CoP Dynamis areas, addition of multiple new GoV zones and loot. What the heck more were you expecting? A full expansion? Can you point to a single non-expansion/addon patch that added more content at once?

Mahoro
09-24-2011, 02:57 AM
A lot of the main NMs in Abyssea were at least given additional move sets. I never claimed Abyssea was a lot of content also. At least even it had more things to waste time with though other than spamming NMs.

The majority of NM's in VW are given additional move sets as well, and Zilart mobs pop with adds which makes things more interesting. It's an academic point though. My intent was to put things into perspective when comparing Abyssea to VW. You can do some quests in Abyssea zones, sure, but in the end you are really just spamming NM's. I kind of miss the days of Assault, when we had more original objectives than just "pop and kill this NM."

Kaisha
09-24-2011, 03:06 AM
Can you point to a single non-expansion/addon patch that added more content at once?
That I cannot. But that's only because we didn't have to wait four full months for a proper content update. Used to get content bimonthly which included continuation of set pieces and new locations to visit in a storyline in addition to the usual orb battles, NMs, quests, etc.

For the amount of time we had to wait, this amount of content is disappointing. The devs banked everything on VW and revamped CoP Dynamis this update, and the Dynamis part isn;t even completed yet.


The majority of NM's in VW are given additional move sets as well, and Zilart mobs pop with adds which makes things more interesting. It's an academic point though. My intent was to put things into perspective when comparing Abyssea to VW. You can do some quests in Abyssea zones, sure, but in the end you are really just spamming NM's. I kind of miss the days of Assault, when we had more original objectives than just "pop and kill this NM."
Point taken. I've not done Zilart progress so I shouldn't really comment too much on that. I've been focusing on the Jeuno path primarily which has yet to surprise me at all, midway through T2 on it.

Greatguardian
09-24-2011, 03:33 AM
Is it that surprising that they emphasized Endgame content with this update? Endgame players are the ones who have finished Abyssea. They're the ones who need something to do. Most casual players don't even have a full set of AF3+2, let alone even a single Empyrean. There is still plenty of content for them to do. And even then, WoE, Dynamis, and HKCNM are all Casual-friendly events.

Yugl
09-24-2011, 04:17 AM
I'm seeing niche pieces for a handful of jobs, no major upgrades besides some of the VW bodies/hats. Mostly Inventory -1, mostly things you will seldom use.

This is just a semantics argument. In other word, "My definition of non-niche and handful is different from yours." You don't have a real comeback other than that.



Better? Yes. But better in the sense of level progression that we've seen through out the rest of the game? No. Even if it is just 5 levels, you mentioned Hoard Ring Vs. the new Attack/STP ring. Yes it's better, but off the top of my head I can't think of one job that will benefit from it in the ideal set. WAR? 5hit will still require tactical mantle, so put your Blitz ring back on. SAM? 5hit requires haste sacrifices and you can 6hit w/ sword strap reliably, so go get a mars ring. DRK? Maybe for a Apocalypse build, but I don't get into that. Good if you're trying to push for a Cala 6hit, but you're still using tactical mantle and accuracy sacrifices so there's no way it'll be worth it.DRG working on a 5-hit without access to Rose strap will require it. Alternative options, insofar as that's not all that's implemented, is not always bad.


Even 80 brought in things like Loki's Kaftan, 6% haste panties, and AF3 accessories.Loki's was less phenomenal then than it is now because we didn't have CDC, CW, Blade Hi, Razed Ruins, and so forth. Some AF3 were crap. Just look at Mavi scarf. Your list here is less than what the 95 piece brought and some of these were more niche than the level 95 update. It's illogical for you to assert that level 80 brought a bold upgrade in gear which maintaining that this update did not.



Should everything in the update be far superior to previous gear? Maybe, maybe not. Should it show clear signs of level progression to make the average player want to spend 13$ a month? Yes.You're really just creating a contradiction for yourself or trying to make vague arguments here. If the gains from level 80 were sufficient, then 95 should be sufficient. If you want to spell out exactly what stats they need to make so that it hits that oh-so vague notion of "not far superior" yet has "clear signs of level progression", then feel free to flesh that out. Otherwise, it's linguistic craft that spells out "I'm not satisfied" without giving clear justification.

Overall, I think the another issue you fail to recognize, aside from the fact that we paid an extra $10 for Abyssea content, is that the player's gripe over this entire situation is due to casuals crying about Abyssea and other people attaining the same "far superior" gear you mentioned are to blame. This is the problem when casual players try to act elitist. Elitists can handle difficult content with grand rewards because they're in it for the haul. Casuals making elitist demands are difficult to appease because they want gear that is easy to obtain, yet they want separation from some imaginary "herd" they feel superior to (Preposition...). At the same time, if it's gear they cannot obtain, they don't want it being vastly superior because they're worried about the real elites towering over them. It should be obvious how SE tried to reconcile these tugs and how the current situation resulted from that. Case and point, the current dilemma is the fault of ideas originating from players, not SE.

Edit: And I make all these statements knowing that I'm currently excluded from VW content. Despite being a poster on BG, I'm more casual than people expect.

Septimus
09-24-2011, 06:11 AM
I think that the truly disappointing part of this update is the lack of story. The CoP days may have been the dark ages when it came to convenience, playability, and not being hated by the development team, but the story involved with the game was incredibly rich. Updates could have up to a dozen quests added, many with more story involved than just "fetch me these items" for our standard monthly fee. To get a dozen of anything now you have to pay $10, and chances are the stories will be sloppily thrown together like those first three terrible add-ons. (Seriously, I will never forgive whoever did the "no one remembers anything because they were dreaming" garbage from a Crystaline Prophecy. Any Freshman literature undergrad could have scribbled out a better story than that.)

Take Open Sesame (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Open_Sesame) for example. This was a standard fetch quest where you just give the NPC some stuff and that is it. Instead, it could have been about an archeologist who wanted to study the Quicksand Caves ruins. Throw in a brief tour of the place through ??? spots, discuss the history of the place, maybe tell us some things that we never knew about it, the archeologist figures out how to make a gizmo to work the doors and gives us one because we were so helpful to him; everyone would feel a little more enriched for the experience. Instead we got a very lazy "get me this and something else" and called it a day.

Sure, some people don't care about the game's backstory, but a lot of us do. The game's lore keeps us connected to Vana'diel, it helps us to care about the game- anymore I am finding this part to be disturbingly wanting.

Helel
09-24-2011, 07:51 AM
You can't really blame them... it takes a lot of time to develop add-ons like abyssea. I know they recycled the maps and such, but it's still a lot of work with npc/mob placement, quests, proc system, on and on. I assume they'll add some more mini-expansions for the 99 cap, but we'll see.

I enjoy VW quite a bit now, but it's still not the same as abyssea. It would be nice to see them incorporate new battlefields, instead of recycling old NMs.

Return1
09-24-2011, 08:09 AM
People will whine about anything.

This update was awesome. It brought back WoE from the brink of death, it added BCNMs with rewards that are actually worth doing them for, expanded VW which is awesome even if the drops are rare, added new EXP camps/mobs, and they streamlined existing EXP even further with repeating pages.

On top of this, we got awesome new spells, some of you got awesome JAs, and lots of gear upgrades.

You want some examples of awesome gear upgrades? Is 10 right off the top of my head good enough?

Hagneia stone
Tyrant's Ring
Prolix Ring
Fajin Boots
Earthcry Earring
Nefer Kalasiris
Oretenia's Cape
Glassblower's Belt
Mekira
Phasmida Belt

All are pretty legit upgrades for their purposes.

Taint2
09-24-2011, 09:02 AM
Is it that surprising that they emphasized Endgame content with this update? Endgame players are the ones who have finished Abyssea. They're the ones who need something to do. Most casual players don't even have a full set of AF3+2, let alone even a single Empyrean. There is still plenty of content for them to do. And even then, WoE, Dynamis, and HKCNM are all Casual-friendly events.


Pretty much this.

Leonlionheart
09-24-2011, 10:05 AM
This is just a semantics argument. In other word, "My definition of non-niche and handful is different from yours." You don't have a real comeback other than that.

DRG working on a 5-hit without access to Rose strap will require it. Alternative options, insofar as that's not all that's implemented, is not always bad.

Loki's was less phenomenal then than it is now because we didn't have CDC, CW, Blade Hi, Razed Ruins, and so forth. Some AF3 were crap. Just look at Mavi scarf. Your list here is less than what the 95 piece brought and some of these were more niche than the level 95 update. It's illogical for you to assert that level 80 brought a bold upgrade in gear which maintaining that this update did not.

You're really just creating a contradiction for yourself or trying to make vague arguments here. If the gains from level 80 were sufficient, then 95 should be sufficient. If you want to spell out exactly what stats they need to make so that it hits that oh-so vague notion of "not far superior" yet has "clear signs of level progression", then feel free to flesh that out. Otherwise, it's linguistic craft that spells out "I'm not satisfied" without giving clear justification.

Overall, I think the another issue you fail to recognize, aside from the fact that we paid an extra $10 for Abyssea content, is that the player's gripe over this entire situation is due to casuals crying about Abyssea and other people attaining the same "far superior" gear you mentioned are to blame. This is the problem when casual players try to act elitist. Elitists can handle difficult content with grand rewards because they're in it for the haul. Casuals making elitist demands are difficult to appease because they want gear that is easy to obtain, yet they want separation from some imaginary "herd" they feel superior to (Preposition...). At the same time, if it's gear they cannot obtain, they don't want it being vastly superior because they're worried about the real elites towering over them. It should be obvious how SE tried to reconcile these tugs and how the current situation resulted from that. Case and point, the current dilemma is the fault of ideas originating from players, not SE.

Edit: And I make all these statements knowing that I'm currently excluded from VW content. Despite being a poster on BG, I'm more casual than people expect.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Zarchery
09-24-2011, 09:41 PM
Did you ever notice that every update ever, since the inception of this game, is filled with "SE MADE A TERRIBLE UPDATE!" Every single one of them.

I'm not saying that everyone hates the game, just that people who are dissatisfied will complain whereas satisfied people will just stay quiet and enjoy what is provided.

Neonii
09-24-2011, 09:43 PM
I'm seeing niche pieces for a handful of jobs, no major upgrades besides some of the VW bodies/hats. Mostly Inventory -1, mostly things you will seldom use.

Better? Yes. But better in the sense of level progression that we've seen through out the rest of the game? No. Even if it is just 5 levels, you mentioned Hoard Ring Vs. the new Attack/STP ring. Yes it's better, but off the top of my head I can't think of one job that will benefit from it in the ideal set. WAR? 5hit will still require tactical mantle, so put your Blitz ring back on. SAM? 5hit requires haste sacrifices and you can 6hit w/ sword strap reliably, so go get a mars ring. DRK? Maybe for a Apocalypse build, but I don't get into that. Good if you're trying to push for a Cala 6hit, but you're still using tactical mantle and accuracy sacrifices so there's no way it'll be worth it.

85 and 90 content both brought in clearly superior pieces to anything we've seen before. Even 80 brought in things like Loki's Kaftan, 6% haste panties, and AF3 accessories.

Should everything in the update be far superior to previous gear? Maybe, maybe not. Should it show clear signs of level progression to make the average player want to spend 13$ a month? Yes.

Point is, this stuff isn't something that the average player is going to go gaga over like AF3+2. It's not as big of a jump, and it's harder. This isn't a good business model.

One mans trash is another mans treasure and imo leave it at that.

Washburn
09-24-2011, 10:51 PM
I was really hoping to see the new merits on this update. I suspect another mini-update will probably come in november/december. But, who knows. Either way, the update we just got definetly wont hold me over til the 99 update.

Aver
09-24-2011, 11:00 PM
I think that the truly disappointing part of this update is the lack of story. The CoP days may have been the dark ages when it came to convenience, playability, and not being hated by the development team, but the story involved with the game was incredibly rich. Updates could have up to a dozen quests added, many with more story involved than just "fetch me these items" for our standard monthly fee. To get a dozen of anything now you have to pay $10, and chances are the stories will be sloppily thrown together like those first three terrible add-ons. (Seriously, I will never forgive whoever did the "no one remembers anything because they were dreaming" garbage from a Crystaline Prophecy. Any Freshman literature undergrad could have scribbled out a better story than that.)

Take Open Sesame (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Open_Sesame) for example. This was a standard fetch quest where you just give the NPC some stuff and that is it. Instead, it could have been about an archeologist who wanted to study the Quicksand Caves ruins. Throw in a brief tour of the place through ??? spots, discuss the history of the place, maybe tell us some things that we never knew about it, the archeologist figures out how to make a gizmo to work the doors and gives us one because we were so helpful to him; everyone would feel a little more enriched for the experience. Instead we got a very lazy "get me this and something else" and called it a day.

Sure, some people don't care about the game's backstory, but a lot of us do. The game's lore keeps us connected to Vana'diel, it helps us to care about the game- anymore I am finding this part to be disturbingly wanting.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm running out of (in-depth) story to go through, and it's making me sad. Gear, gear, gear, gear, spells, gear, gear can only go so far.

The plot-holes thread on BG is probably the best thread about XI I've read in a long time, and I'm glad it's being kept maintained.

Malacite
09-25-2011, 07:32 AM
I've had it with this game now.

Unless 99 has some spectacular new awesomeness to it, it's just not worth it anymore. I did kind of enjoy VW, but the drop system is still total bullshit and I am beyond disgusted at the 95 relics/mythics/empyreans. All that effort for such little gain? I thought the new devs had learned finally that that was precisely what so many of us hated about the game for the last 8~9 years.

It's not about the effort - I love a good challenge. I felt incredibly satisfied and vindicated when I finally got my Masamune 85. But the 95 trials are nothing but SE slapping their giant dick in our faces. Couple this with the blatant disregard of the community's concerns with certain new abilities (Scarlet Dilerium anyone?) and the utter refusal to move PS2 users to PS3 to enable new expansion packs...

Yeah run on sentence there somewhat, sorry. But it just feels like I've exhausted this game at last. All there really is to do at this point is grind for gear. WotG had such a crappy ending I felt, and after waiting 3 years for it really took the wind out the sails. Abyssea was a welcome breath of new life into what was then a dying game, but its charm has worn off now and has even created new problems.

Take into account also SE's refusal to fix other problem areas of XI that they have in XIV - namely skilling up and scrolls - and I just can't help but ask "why bother anymore?". I'm still curious to see lv 99 and the "Last Stand" or whatever it is they're cooking up for post voidwatch, but does anyone else really feel like XI has finally run its course?

Really, really looking forward to patch 1.19 and 1.20 for XIV. I just wish I could say the same for XI, because I still love the game at its core, but it doesn't look like SE can really deliver anymore.

Seriously, just make a PS3 port already and drop the damn PS2 so we can have more expansions. We haven't even explored half of Vana'diel - a quarter at best, according to the NPCs and game lore.

Runespider
09-25-2011, 08:24 AM
Really, really looking forward to patch 1.19 and 1.20 for XIV. I just wish I could say the same for XI, because I still love the game at its core, but it doesn't look like SE can really deliver anymore.

FFXIV is cooked, if you can't see that you're delusional. The stuff they have in the works is not goingto bring players back to the game and it's going to be a really hard sell to try get a mass number of new players to buy into an old game (which it will be by the time it's fixed).

FFXI has some major problems atm but it still has more lifespan and potential than FFXIV. All they really need to do is spend more money on the game, release more expansions and try not to let Tanaka grind the game into the ground.

Coldbrand
09-25-2011, 01:50 PM
I'd probably consider this the most uninspiring update the game has ever seen, especially considering this was supposed to be a major, not minor one.

Zumi
09-25-2011, 02:12 PM
Only can hope the updates get better after the 99 cap. Not all this huge grind stuff they added in this patch.

Babekeke
09-25-2011, 05:57 PM
If they keep making FFXI too good, noone will switch to FFXIV and they won't be able to turn off the FFXI servers.

Monchat
09-25-2011, 07:23 PM
Really, really looking forward to patch 1.19 and 1.20 for XIV. I just wish I could say the same for XI, because I still love the game at its core, but it doesn't look like SE can really deliver anymore.


Just saying: people have been waiting for a miraculous patch in FFXIV since day one. Every 2 week there would be a miracle patch that would solve everything. Patch 1.19 will not fix anything, like any other.

It took them 4 months from release to realize everything in their game is bad, when peopel had been saying it since 1st month of beta. 1 year after the game still sucks. I loged in last moth for 15 mn to realize the things i hate still havent changed lol ( lag through vendor, lag in city, lag everywhere, terrible UI). This game wont be playable before another year.

Nynja
09-26-2011, 01:48 AM
Reactivated my account two days ago expecting to enjoy the next week or two leveling and skill capping my Ninja. 3 hours later I was 95 with all my skills maxed out. Logged off and haven't logged on since. What a waste of 15$.

It took you 3 hours to cap parrying? Really? Really?

MarkovChain
09-26-2011, 02:55 AM
It took you 3 hours to cap parrying? Really? Really?

Capping parry is about as useful, fun, and artificial as doing voidwatch or anything we got with the VU basically.

Nynja
09-26-2011, 04:13 AM
He said he capped his skills on nin in 3 hours, parrying falls under that...

Leonlionheart
09-26-2011, 06:45 AM
Capping parry is about as useful, fun, and artificial as doing voidwatch or anything we got with the VU basically.

"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder. I think the new VW is very fun, too bad no one other than big LS's agree's with me

Septimus
09-26-2011, 07:02 AM
Did you ever notice that every update ever, since the inception of this game, is filled with "SE MADE A TERRIBLE UPDATE!" Every single one of them.

I'm not saying that everyone hates the game, just that people who are dissatisfied will complain whereas satisfied people will just stay quiet and enjoy what is provided.

Always, because that is human nature. Just like there will always be someone who will try to claim that every update is the best update ever no matter what was in it. Human nature.

But I have noticed this time around that it really isn't a loud roar of a few people screaming about how terrible things are, it is more of a soft murmur of a lot of people expressing thier disappointment. I can point to the lack of storyline as the biggest disappointment to this update, but I am also incredibly disappointed in how they are handling Empyrean upgrades and pretty much all of the Trial of the Magians weapons.

Before this update, Trial of the Magians was "put in work and you will get something good out of it". This update it is "buy a bunch of low-drop rate items." Empyrean Weapons in particular, 1,500 Heavy Metal Plates is absurd- even if you did Tier III Voidwatch every single day and by some miracle got one Plate a day, it would still take you over 4 years to finish that trial. Which is sad because Empyrean Weapons were the first major weapons system in the history of this game where they got the "Effort to Reward" ratio correct, at least before this patch. Also 40 geodes for one extra stat and 5 damage, while the upgrades stats are disappointing, the fact that they nearly tripled the geodes needed to get those disappointing stats is borderline insulting. How many geodes are we going to need for the 99 upgrades? If the number goes up like this update, we will need about 107.

No, there isn't a lot of rage from this update. Rage is good for them, rage means passion, passion means that people care, and people who care will keep playing. Quiet disappointment on the other hand, that is the first step to apathy, and no one is going to keep paying for something that they don't care about.

Zumi
09-26-2011, 07:25 AM
Just saying: people have been waiting for a miraculous patch in FFXIV since day one. Every 2 week there would be a miracle patch that would solve everything. Patch 1.19 will not fix anything, like any other.

It took them 4 months from release to realize everything in their game is bad, when peopel had been saying it since 1st month of beta. 1 year after the game still sucks. I loged in last moth for 15 mn to realize the things i hate still havent changed lol ( lag through vendor, lag in city, lag everywhere, terrible UI). This game wont be playable before another year.

FFXIV seemed like it needed 2 or more years or more of development. But they rushed it out for whatever reason and probably going to have to take a loss on it. They are just getting around to adding chocobos and airships. Not listening to all the problems beta players brought up wasn't that good. They aren't charging a monthly fee in its current state, I doubt anyone would pay for it if they did.

Molech
09-27-2011, 01:09 AM
I thought the update sucked and it reeks of Tanaka.

Dallas
09-27-2011, 05:09 AM
I logged in late to have a fellow SMN save my meleeing hide with stunga. I added 5 immediate tasks to a long list. In the unlikely event I complete them all before the next update, I have 3 more jobs.

I win. I dont know what your guys problem is. HMP will increase at 99. It is stupidly obvious that they are intentionally rare right now.