Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

[HimuraKenshyn]

So I am hearing the reports the devs have forgotten to add coins to the loot tables????

Please say this isn't what everyone is experiencing:



Originally Posted by barber2006
5 runs for me and mule mule today. 3 total coins (2 to mule of course), zero dice. Was in a group of 8 people. Only one pouch in all those total possible runs (so like 1/50 for us). Oh and it was ruin. And it only gave 4 coins. This was alternating flux 2 and 6.

So far collecting all of the people I know that have gone to WOE since the update the total numbers are:

total runs: 77
total coins: 14
total pouches: 1

These were all done on flux 2/5/6 so they don't account for higher drop rates in upper zones (if they exist). But as it stands if coins drop completely unimformally (no way that is a word) it would take about 600 runs to complete a weapon if my sample size is accurate. Now it's small, so its not accurate, but even if you slice that in half to 300 hours, or by 75% to 150 hours it isn't something that I'll be doing. I've been waiting to WOE my gun/bow for a while and am on the coins stage, but there is no way 50 fistule drops, 50 bukhis drops, 50 cara drops, and 50 lanterns would take as long as the woe option from what I see.

[svengalis]

I did conflux 9 last night and did 2 runs one with my mule one without. Got one coin on 2 nd run but it went to my mule of course ( from the chest). The way I see it from my experience in just those two runs, it probably would be just faster to farm an empyrean weapon. I give this new woe update about a month before people stop doing it. Only did flux 9 because that is the only one everyone rushed to get into. We had 36 members. If it wasn't for smn we probably would have not completed it. Summoners own woe.

[Chilzen]

I messed with it a few times since the new update went live, and the rates truly are horrid. Out of... six runs last night, I gained 2 Glory, 1 Advance, 1 Decay, 1 Ruin, and 1 Devious Dice. I managed to get some nice gear out of there as well as Ice Carol 2, but Sven is right when saying it'd probably be faster to just make the real Emp weapons with the same amount of time it seems the random number generator will have you investing in new WoE. Also, only one person in my group got a pouch off a single run last night, so I'm thinking those were made much rarer compared to older WoE settings, where it was not uncommon to see 2-3 pouches in the pool at the end.

My suggestion to make it better is to remove the Exclusive nature on the coins themselves and make them sellable / tradable, to go along with the new team nature that the revisions have brought to WoE. If not that, would the dev team at least be willing to review the drop rates for pouches, as well as coins themselvese? Face it, they've done alot of content lately and gone on public record at a later time stating drop rates were incorrect, so I consider this to be a possiblity as well.

[Luvbunny]

Well if they would do what you suggested, it would be awesome. Upping the drop rate would help, but making those coins bazaarable at least would be a great help!! Though lately the developers have done a lot of spectacular craps and minuscule updates. I doubt they can top abyssea, the recent additions are backward thinking. Voidwatch are the most horrendous idea ever created. If they are thinking to bring back the 2003-2006 play style then they better get ready for a big drop in subscribers. Perhaps that is their plan so we go play FF14... the other atrocious turds in their collection. Note to developer - look back at the amazing job you did with ToAU and Abyssea, recreate it and continue the awesome works. Make the game easy, fun, and enjoyable and cater to the BIGGEST numbers of your players - screw the minority hardcore who wants the old fashion elitist way of playing. Do this and make TONS of money.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Ugh man I thought and was hoping they fix WOE not make it a complete retarded black hole to play time to complete a knockoff weapon how sad is this bleep....

[Luvbunny]

Sadly this is how it is for now. They fail and fail and fail and fail again and again to adjust to older content outside aby. I mean, for the love of god, just make it on par with abyssea experience!! Voidwatch is another cluster fck. It's like they cannot top abyssea and refuse to adjust the older content outside abysea.

[Monchat]

So I am hearing the reports the devs have forgotten to add coins to the loot tables????

Please say this isn't what everyone is experiencing:<BG quote>

Dont believe everything posted on BG. I did two conflux 5 and 6 with a pt of 6, everyone had at least one coin, one got 2 one got a pouch.

[Leonlionheart]

Pre update:
Conflux (Wyverns and Hydra idr): 2 runs, 28 Coin of Decay from pouches (3 pouches total, 2 from Rank 2 personal chest, 1 from area chest) 8 Coin of Glory (1 pouch from Rank 2 personal chest)

Post update:
Conflux 9: 5 runs, 2 Coin of Birth, 1 Coin of Glory, 2 Dice

Way to f*** up SE

[scaevola]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there

[Alhanelem]

One thing to remember is basically everyone who's going is getting coins, instead of one or two people getting several. Though, the problem is, you may not get the coins you want...

What annoys me most is people keep doing the same walks repeatedly, and the higher tier walks don't get unlocked because of it.

[Leonlionheart]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there

Can I complain about the reward structure of VW then?

In a week people will remember how shitty WoE is, and then you'll be shouting for 5 SMN in jeuno again

[scaevola]

Actually, another thing regarding the one-day cooldown, it's actually a godsend for current WoE; if, say, 36 people are in the zone there's absolutely nothing for any of them to gain by not all going to the same Walk, and the fact that they all become elgible to enter a Walk at the same time makes it really easy to herd them all in there.

[scaevola]

Can I complain about the reward structure of VW then?



Yes, you can absolutely complain about the reward structure of Voidwatch, an event where "swing, die to AoE, auto-reraise, resume swinging" and "pull boss, zerg until people start dying, apply Bio II, wipe, zombie with DoTs/pets until unweakened, repeat" are not viable strategies for completion.




In a week people will remember how shitty WoE is, and then you'll be shouting for 5 SMN in jeuno again

Man once everybody gets 75 this boring-ass Campaign shit will be dead

[svengalis]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there

Ugh I got no coins in the two hours I was there. Why would I continue to do an event where I am not getting anything I want? I am going to level Summoner and see if the higher damage output makes a difference, if not I won't bother with woe ever again. I farmed an empyrean weapon in 2 weeks I seriously doubt the same can be done in woe.

[Zaknafein]

I've done 6 runs so far flux 5,6 keep getting blackscreened on flux 7 ><

birth 5
advance 1
glory 1
ruin 2
1 die

I like the way it is much better than before imo. Just wish the blackscreen BS could be fixed.

[Alhanelem]

ive seen about a dozen coins (of all types) in 5 runs. Often getting 3 in flux 7.

[Babygyrl]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there


The problem is though Getting People interested in even doing it! most of the stuff is not appealing at all to majority of the player base.. at least as of right now, grand it we still dont know all the new stuff yet.. HOw can anyone acheive anything in this game that requires a group if no one wants to participate..

[Alhanelem]

can anyone verify or estimate how many conflux 7 wins it took to unlock conflux 8?

[scaevola]

The problem is though Getting People interested in even doing it! most of the stuff is not appealing at all to majority of the player base.. at least as of right now, grand it we still dont know all the new stuff yet.. HOw can anyone acheive anything in this game that requires a group if no one wants to participate..

People will want to participate when they see it is a relatively rewarding event that is totally and completely mindless and steadily rewards you with progress towards the second most powerful weapons in the game for virtually any job, with the added benefit of an uncontested shot at items AHing for seven figures.

A few weeks ago I made a thread hand-wringing about this very issue. I am not ready to eat crow just yet (wait to see if people are still doing it when the hype dies down) but once people actually start seeing for themselves how stupidly easy Walk of Echoes is now, I think they will agree with me that complaints about it not being rewarding enough are pretty unfounded.

[Alhanelem]

There's no problem getting people interested on shiva. 30-50 people in the zone at peak time.

[Zaknafein]

Yeah mobbed on Bahamut

[scaevola]

Ugh I got no coins in the two hours I was there. Why would I continue to do an event where I am not getting anything I want?

Because you can get from Port Jeuno to WoE and finish a run in under a half hour, with virtually 0 cost or requirement of effort on your part.


I farmed an empyrean weapon in 2 weeks I seriously doubt the same can be done in woe.

Then the WoE revamp was not designed with you in mind. Were you somehow shocked Campaign was as popular as it was? "Man, why do all these people do Campaign when they could make 30k an hour in a good colibri party!"

[Leonlionheart]

Then the WoE revamp was not designed with you in mind. Were you somehow shocked Campaign was as popular as it was? "Man, why do all these people do Campaign when they could make 30k an hour in a good colibri party!"

I never understand why people LIKE being gimptastic

[svengalis]

ive seen about a dozen coins (of all types) in 5 runs. Often getting 3 in flux 7.

Maybe I am doing the wrong flux!

[svengalis]

There's no problem getting people interested on shiva. 30-50 people in the zone at peak time.

It's the same on Phoenix but kinda hard to get them to do anything but flux 9.

[Xellith]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there

Walk of echos will take you probably a month or two to finish a weapon.
Empyrean will take you probably a month or two to finish a weapon to 85 IF YOU ARE LAZY

WOE needs to have some amazing Rare/ex gear added. Not just some stupid random number generator trickery. If the drop rates are as they are then the only thing worth going for is the damn sellable items which you can use to BUY the regular empy upgrade items. You cant even be seriously contemplating getting a WOE weapon for any reason as it stands.

Options Available:
Spam WOE and get items to sell to buy empy upgrade items
Do Abyssea and get a true empy to at least 85.

Working on WOE weapons atm seems like a stupid idea. Id hold onto coins till they add more uses for them.

[Alhanelem]

It's the same on Phoenix but kinda hard to get them to do anything but flux 9.
We don't have any of the new fluxes open yet, so that's not a problem. :p

[Shiyo]

WoE coin drops are extremely steady in the new setup, and if you got 5-6 coins a run people would finish weapons and stop doing it in two weeks.

Normally I'm against low drop rates to artificially preserve the lifespan of content, but

1) WoE with 15 people requires slightly less individual contribution and coordination to win than Campaign did at 75, even the new Walks*, and

2) the new system for WoE would be a disaster if you finished a weapon in 2 nights and never went back.




*seriously you are complaining about the reward structure of an event that is literally impossible to lose if enough people are there
That's cool, I just got 50 fistule charges and 50 bukhis wings in 2 days and a half. This weapon is also superior to a level 99 WOE version of my weapon because of the ODD. Why does WOE exist again?

[Leonlionheart]

Yeah, WoE is pretty fail as it stands.

1: SMN BST COR is really the only way to do it
2: Weapons suck
3: Drop rate to get weapons sucks

[Alhanelem]

Yeah, WoE is pretty fail as it stands.

1: SMN BST COR is really the only way to do it
2: Weapons suck
3: Drop rate to get weapons sucks

Huh? Only way to do it? I've been doing it all day today, there's 60 people in the zone, everyone just runs in and the monster/monsters die in 10 seconds and we win. Some people die but everyone gets free reraise. Multiple runs of conflux 4, 6 and 7 all with random people and no problems at all.

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

Sadly this is how it is for now. They fail and fail and fail and fail again and again to adjust to older content outside aby. I mean, for the love of god, just make it on par with abyssea experience!! Voidwatch is another cluster fck. It's like they cannot top abyssea and refuse to adjust the older content outside abysea.

No, it's actually challenging content and not abyssea easy mode. I knew this day would come since they can't just keep adding abyssea zones/content. Voidwatch is amazing content with very unique drops and a great strategic component to it. Is it hard? No, only if you are not able to play the real game and not abyssea.

Back to the good old days of hard and fun group content where skill did matter.

[brayen]

The coin rate is a lot worse then before, seen about 2 pouches total out of the last 20ish runs we have done among my group in particular with about 20 coins total in singles, and die just dont exist. 100 die seems like a yearly accomplishment as it stands and that is terrible especially if WoE popularity reverts to how it was before cuz now you cant even solo. Between this massive roadblock on empy weapons AND now even the lesser WoE who gain far less(and even the elemental trials got very minimal boost). Feels like everything is being turned into 2002 where no1 will complete these trials and people will have to sell their lives to get anything done, very disappointing update. Challenges are fine but pure grinds that last that long are beyond me(my opinion anyways)

[Patrik]

haha i get the feeling this is gonna be a repeat of the dynamis change XD SE says they increase overall rate to get coins(currency) everyone is getting crap. couple weeks go by, people figure something out (dynamis-procs) and start making more currency than they could before...

well maybe, it just reminds me of that >.> but me personally, i'm getting more coins than i used to. 6 or 7 runs and got 13 or so coins total, and 2 dice (yea dice could be better x.x) BUT i think that because we all get our own item pool now, thus getting coins we may not need and others getting ones we DO need, it makes the illusion that there are much less coins. though in reality more are being distributed. just a thought. i made a thread in battle content sections requesting a way to kick items into a pool that anyone in the run can lot (like abyssea) i think that would go a long way in helping

[Kimble]

That's cool, I just got 50 fistule charges and 50 bukhis wings in 2 days and a half. This weapon is also superior to a level 99 WOE version of my weapon because of the ODD. Why does WOE exist again?

New spells and items.

Also, since more people are inclined to do WoE now, someone who has no means at all to do an empy weapon can at least join in on runs and get coins from boxes.

[CrAZYVIC]

Well the drop rate for the coins still bad. 1/3 Runs for 1 coin is the average. The event still bad planed too.

The posible solutions for this.

1.- If they want keep the restriccion 1 vanadial day entry. Then the NQ mobs can drops coins too and these coins will go free lot, having 36 players there will be hard win the lots but at least is a extra chance, adding more NQ mobs for the people farm them before clean the Battlefield and keep our chest reward at the end.

2.- Taking off the 1 vanadial day entry and uncap the 36 people limit. So we can spam all runs we want.

3.- I hope Square explain us, "How work the evaluation system for WoE". If is identical campaing, or if is like the old WoE the top 5 guys get best rewards, if heals, elemental magic, ninjutsu how affect this for our evaluation, if the WS count as damage ?? I hope CAMATE can explain us how work the evaluation system.

The first. If you have multiple jobs lv90 - 95. Work on all the coins at the same time. Dont focus only 1 because it will take 60 - 100 Runs average.

So if you have Monk, War, Sam and Thief. Work on all the coins same time.

I started 1 week before the update work on my coins. Doing 5 Runs per day, i got 13 Coins of decay, 17 Coins of Birth, 12 Coins of adv and 15 coins of glory.

35 runs and i got all these coins

Now after the update yesterday i did 9 runs and today i did 10 runs. Im 23 Coins of decay, 27 Coins of birth, 17 coins of glory i lose a pouch of coin of glory because paralice epic fucking fail -_-, 18 Coins adv.

Now The point is this. The WOE weapons almost all, are the second best weapons in the game. If i keep going and i dont stop for about 1 week more. Im sure i will finish the coins for 4 jobs. In 3 weeks i will have enough coins for get 4 NQ empyreals. (Im More worry for get the help for Kill the shit like erebus/chesma etc)

Now yes this weapons cant do the same damage like the Original empyreal weapons. But the margin diference is just decent. The diference margin of a empyreal/WOE DD vs a DD without a empyreal is a lot for almost all jobs.

Inside of Einjerhar tier 3 The same player using Uko/WoE/Widow assuming he is a great player with 26% haste stuff and he know what is doing. Will parse like this

The War with Uko will parse 95k
The War with WOE will parse 85k
The War without a empyreal weapon will fail until 70 k in a parse.



In my opinion. Work some weeks for get WOE weapons on your DD jobs is a good temporal upgrade. With this you can ungimp your jobs, then slowly and with calm you can work on a real empyreal.

Some people forget, not everyone have access dual box,not everyone have acess a nice group of 4 - 6 people for spam 15 hours of farm and not everyone will be killing 4 - 6 NMS with 1 brew.

[MDenham]

I have the disturbing feeling that WoE coins will be needed for relic +2 upgrades.

[xbobx]

When I went, people only were doing one flux, and it was always capped. there were 0 people in every other flux. Usually got 1 coin per run but always coin of ruin. But it is very easy to see that in a month people will just stop doing then it will be almost impossible to finish a Woe weapon because you can't beat a flux unless you drag people from ls to do it 400 times with you to hopefully get 30 coins you need.

they completely killed the content. It is only time before it is dead. Maybe they should have mobs drop coins again and keep the chest at end for everyone when they clear.

[scaevola]

That's cool, I just got 50 fistule charges and 50 bukhis wings in 2 days and a half. This weapon is also superior to a level 99 WOE version of my weapon because of the ODD. Why does WOE exist again?

Let's Mathing!


50 Discharges from a 15-minute respawn NM; we'll assume 5 minutes on average to low-man kill just for a nice round number of 20 minutes total per kill. We'll also be generous and assume you're never beaten to a claim and that you get an average of 1.5 discharges per kill, again to make it nice and round. At these numbers, you're looking at 11 hours of Fistule, again assuming you never once get outclaimed and you always have a Bloodguzzler ready to go the moment Fistule repops.

For Bukhis, there are way more variables since you can get all items from Gold Pyxides but I will be EXTREMELY generous and say 15 minutes per Bukhis kill on average, which includes building lights, farming extra time, getting lucky on KIs, and actually killing Bukhis. Note that without acceptable cleavers you'd be lucky to go through half as fast. Assuming an average of 1.5 wings per Bukhis kill, you're looking at 8 hours 20 minutes to finish.

So, you spent 19 hours and 20 minutes over the course of two and a half days playing Final Fantasy XI (I assume you have a job and occassionally sleep as well), and you're asking me why I would bother with something I can knock out 20 minutes at a time while I'm folding laundry?


Now, I'm not gainsaying your life choices; I mean, there are plenty of people with miserable lives out there and most of them can't claim to have made an 85 Empyrean in two days. But just looking at you bragging about doing so and knowing nothing else about you, it's hard to interpret it as anything other than "fast track to dying alone" and again, not judging, I'm happy with it if you are, but please don't expect me to think you have any worthwhile insights as to how anyone else ought to spend their own time, okay?




(also, though one could easily complete an 85 Empyrean over the course of say, two months, I personally would rather spend two months of casual play to get really good weapons for four jobs than a really, really good weapon for one. YMMV)

[tins]

I got my 30 coins of decay in 3 days with old WoE, with the new 2 coins of birth in 3 days. I though the objective was to increase the drop rate of coins, not decrease it....

[Alhanelem]

1 coin average? in 7 runs of #7, I got 3/4 coins almost every time. Only one time I got no coins.


I got my 30 coins of decay in 3 days with old WoE, with the new 2 coins of birth in 3 days. I though the objective was to increase the drop rate of coins, not decrease it.... The *total* rate of coins is increased because almost everyone who participates recieves one or more instead of only a few people.

[Quetzacoatl]

Way to go Square, you guys just made Empyrean Weapons easier to get in comparison to building a weapon from Walk of Echoes drops. I thought it was the other way around?

[Erecia]

Let's Mathing!
That was very well done, sir.

[Zaknafein]

I got my 30 coins of decay in 3 days with old WoE, with the new 2 coins of birth in 3 days. I though the objective was to increase the drop rate of coins, not decrease it....

If you got 2 coins in three days you are doing something very wrong.

[tins]

If you got 2 coins in three days you are doing something very wrong.

I meant 2 of the coins I need for my trial, overall i got 10 coins playing 3h a day. And i have yet to see a pouch drop from a chest...

[Quetzacoatl]

If you got 2 coins in three days you are doing something very wrong.

Such as not doing an empyrean instead

[Taint2]

While I really enjoy the new system and have gotten some good money drops, I have yet to see a coin on my main or my mule lol.

[scaevola]

I meant 2 of the coins I need for my trial, overall i got 10 coins playing 3h a day. And i have yet to see a pouch drop from a chest...


For the three-billionth time, the point of WoE is not and has never been to make only one weapon any more than the point of FFXI has been to play only one job.

It's embarrassing to even have to explain this, but let's say Little Timmy casually makes a Masamune over the course of two months and little Tommy goes to WoE and gets enough (or close to enough) coins to make one of each of the four types of weapons in about the same time. Judging from my experience so far, 2 months of a few WoEs a day ought to bring you enough coins for that.

At the end of this, Little Timmy's SAM has Fudo and an ODD proc. Little Tommy's SAM has Fudo, his NIN has Hi, his MNK has VSmite, and his THF and DNC have Rudra's.


Timmy's awesome SAM is still a SAM. People do not always want or need SAMs. Tommy, however, has access to an Empyrean WS regardless of what any group he might join may need at that particular moment.

[Leonlionheart]

Huh? Only way to do it? I've been doing it all day today, there's 60 people in the zone, everyone just runs in and the monster/monsters die in 10 seconds and we win. Some people die but everyone gets free reraise. Multiple runs of conflux 4, 6 and 7 all with random people and no problems at all.

Unfortunately now that prices on gear have already dropped drastically, the amount of people doing it will fall too.

Similar to when WoE was introduced, it will die out after the initial rush. I give it two weeks maximum, maybe more if flux 11 gives good Dice drops, as they are currently the best seller from WoE on Asura, going for 250k~ (yeah and you need 100, you might as well go buy your KI pops by shouting in jeuno for the damn emp).

After that, like I said, you'll go back to SMN BST COR only. Just wait.

Edit: Also, I've been doing flux 9. It has a version of Turul/Amhuluk (similar to the new VW NM in Rolanberry S) that, in addition to everything Amhuluk, has a HP/MP down that reduced my HP on SMN from 1100 to 550. The following Vermillion wind did ~1000. The PLD's barely survive, and they all had Ochains. If you think of another way to win besides pets, please let me know.

[Alhanelem]

I meant 2 of the coins I need for my trial, overall i got 10 coins playing 3h a day. And i have yet to see a pouch drop from a chest...
IDK maybe you need to contribute more or something. After any given run (with like 10-20 people) I always see a couple people opening bags.

[tins]

IDK maybe you need to contribute more or something. After any given run (with like 10-20 people) I always see a couple people opening bags.

Maybe that's the problem, i get overall 8k exp performance with dnc which usually gives me 2 random coins (and 1 die in my las run).

[scaevola]

I honestly don't think your final assessment affects what loot you get once it's established you're getting loot at all. I've gotten 4 coins for a 5k assessment and 1 coin for a 9k one.

I mean, the loot spreads across several 5500ish assessments for me were so random that I can't imagine getting any sort of predictive sample without dozens of people recording their results for months, and for what? Coins come consistently enough that if you stick with WoE, you'll finish your weapons, period.

Probably the best thing you could do is hang on to any of the rare drops you get that are not likely to AH for very much, or even buy them off the AH if you're that desperate; as far as I can tell you always get five pieces of loot from the chest, so having a Rare item in your inventory ought to remove the possibility of it loading for you, Treasures and Tribulations style.

[Catsby]

You can't forget that people often have multiple jobs leveled up. If you finish a nice weapon in a few days you might be more inclined to do it all over again(maybe again and again) than if it took you a week.

[Camate]

I received some feedback from the development team concerning coin drop rates. Since it has only been a couple of days since the version update was implemented and also considering that in there were adjustments to participation numbers as well as new chambers, we would like to make the appropriate decision while monitoring all these things on a wide-scale.

Also, it can be thought that the feeling of there not being a lot of coins is due to the effects of changing the reward distribution method from casting lots to individual treasure chests.

In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

[Leonlionheart]

Super edit: Camate, please let the dev team know that Silver ore is NOT something you should be getting from high end game content.

Along with crap logs, gems, and other materials that no one EVER uses anymore. I find myself dropping 2/3's of WoE drops

[Elexia]

Yeah..I always wondered...

Why do we get random ores and logs and whatnot from any new event (VW/WoE) it's like saying "For your valiant efforts in slaying this Behemoth, you will be rewarded with 2 Silver Ore, a Beech Log and a chunk of Amber...what you wanted new gear? That's not why you do these! You do them for the ore!"

I guess they just throw in generic drops so you always get something for your efforts.

[svengalis]

So going in with more people is actually a bad thing if you can win with a lower number of players... That's what I got from Camate's post anyway.

[Babekeke]

Perhaps make them tradable since they are no longer poolable? Or include the opportunity to put your coins into the treasure pool of people in your own party? Like with items from gold chests in abyssea.

[xbobx]

Seems a bit whacked. So you improve the content so more people do because you have to do, but if you have too many people you get less coins. But if you don't have enough players then you can't win therefore you get nothing.

What you guys need to realize many people get these weapons for the weaponskills, they are not the best weapons in the game, and some are not even that good. You already go thought a fairly large time sink doing the nms and vnms, which makes some sense although very boring. Getting 30 coins should not be a 300 hour investment.
Again, you guys always talk about game balance, but this is so far out of balance that it needs to be fixed. A emp weapon should not be easier and faster to get then a weapon people aquire for a weaponskill. Fact is, you shouldn't have to go through this much work for a weaponskill to begin with.

[scaevola]

So going in with more people is actually a bad thing if you can win with a lower number of players... That's what I got from Camate's post anyway.

uh

how


In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.


He's referring to how it used to be. The reward structure under the new system functions independently of how many people participate.

[xbobx]

I think what they need to do is just look at some simple math and figured out how long it would take to get 30 coins on average and compare that with other weapons to see if it is balanced. I am not sure they do this.

[Xellith]

I received some feedback from the development team concerning coin drop rates. Since it has only been a couple of days since the version update was implemented and also considering that in there were adjustments to participation numbers as well as new chambers, we would like to make the appropriate decision while monitoring all these things on a wide-scale.

Also, it can be thought that the feeling of there not being a lot of coins is due to the effects of changing the reward distribution method from casting lots to individual treasure chests.

In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

Random loot you do NOT want does not make for fun content. This is one of the reasons many people dont do Voidwatch. Spend all your time and energy and get the opposite of what it was you was aiming at.

Just give us Voidwatch Points and Walk of Echo points. Let us trade these in for the items we desire. Stop being so stupid and retarded about all this. Its been said by many people to just instate point systems in place of these stupid random drops.

[Zigou]

Well,

so now you don't get a chance to accomplish anything solo.

You must follow the flow ( till peoples get enough, and then move on from VW )

And it's look for me as an other good thing for dualboxing account ............ SE are you sponsors of Dbox?

So where do we stand here Solo players........... ???

[Greatguardian]

I received some feedback from the development team concerning coin drop rates. Since it has only been a couple of days since the version update was implemented and also considering that in there were adjustments to participation numbers as well as new chambers, we would like to make the appropriate decision while monitoring all these things on a wide-scale.

Also, it can be thought that the feeling of there not being a lot of coins is due to the effects of changing the reward distribution method from casting lots to individual treasure chests.

In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

Hi, Camate!

I understand what you're saying, unfortunately I think the Devs are working under an imperfect understanding of how Walk of Echoes lotting used to function in practice.

The Devs are assuming, when they make their conclusions about the supply of Coins, that all players entering Walk of Echoes are free lotting all of the coins. In practice, this is not the case. Pre-Update, many players would lot on only one type of coin and pass alternate coin drops onto others. Rather than a free for all, an organized system of passing/lotting resulted in increased rewards for everyone present.

On an individual level, a player is more likely to end up with coins and items they do not need now than they would have previously, and less likely to obtain the items that they are pursuing.

While I understand the gap that must exist between the intended function of the system and the actual utilization by players in practice can often inhibit the Dev's understanding of our grievances, I hope that this will help to clear things up a bit.

[Leonlionheart]

Seriously, as it is now VW drops are a total slap in the players face

When in the past have we ever had such horrible drops? Maybe Byakko didn't drop your pants, but at LEAST he dropped something of value at some point. I've done up to jeuno VW, including some of the new Jeuno NMs, and I've never gotten anything better than Durium ore.

WoE is in the same situation

[Elexia]

Random loot you do NOT want does not make for fun content. This is one of the reasons many people dont do Voidwatch. Spend all your time and energy and get the opposite of what it was you was aiming at.

Just give us Voidwatch Points and Walk of Echo points. Let us trade these in for the items we desire. Stop being so stupid and retarded about all this. Its been said by many people to just instate point systems in place of these stupid random drops.

You throw out the words "Stupid" and "Retarded" quite a bit.

[Dreamin]

I've raise this question and made a proposal on the test server feedback already on this. When I tried it on the test server, there were a total of 3 of us there on that day, so we basically didn't clear any flux so ended up with nothing to show for. Right now, a lot of ppl are doing WoE because of the high value scrolls that are dropping in there that they can sell. They're all only doing #7 at the moment while #1-#6 were all emptied (I didn't see any of the higher flux yet. might be that I'm not looking since there's now lag with all the pets in there).

I think the adjustments that really needed to be made are:

1. Allow us to trade in any coin for any other coin that we want (i.e. Ruin to Birth). Heck, make it trading 2 coins in for 1 coin out. This will eliminate the issue with people who keep getting the coin types that they do not want but can never get the coin types that they want (hello, Coin of Birth).

2. Give us some sort of WoE Points/Currency as I've stated in the thread on the Test Server feedback/bug post. That way, if there's no one else in there or if there's not enough people to do other lower tier flux, you can still earn points that you can then trade in for coins that you're after. Because after the initial influx of people going after scrolls to sell, WoE will die down and this will give people a chance to still progress toward the coins that they want.

As an added bonus, put those dice in there as well. Maybe make it so that 5x coins/points for every dice or something that is hard enough but is reachable.

[FrankReynolds]

Hi, Camate!

I understand what you're saying, unfortunately I think the Devs are working under an imperfect understanding of how Walk of Echoes lotting used to function in practice.

The Devs are assuming, when they make their conclusions about the supply of Coins, that all players entering Walk of Echoes are free lotting all of the coins. In practice, this is not the case. Pre-Update, many players would lot on only one type of coin and pass alternate coin drops onto others. Rather than a free for all, an organized system of passing/lotting resulted in increased rewards for everyone present.

On an individual level, a player is more likely to end up with coins and items they do not need now than they would have previously, and less likely to obtain the items that they are pursuing.

While I understand the gap that must exist between the intended function of the system and the actual utilization by players in practice can often inhibit the Dev's understanding of our grievances, I hope that this will help to clear things up a bit.

Camate,
Please read or translate the above quote to the developers as precisely as you can. This sums it up perfectly.

[scaevola]

I have to repeat what I said on the first page and say the new WoE would be a *** disaster if you could complete the weapon of your choice in two days, which seems to be what the lot of you are asking for.

[Sparthos]

I received some feedback from the development team concerning coin drop rates. Since it has only been a couple of days since the version update was implemented and also considering that in there were adjustments to participation numbers as well as new chambers, we would like to make the appropriate decision while monitoring all these things on a wide-scale.

Also, it can be thought that the feeling of there not being a lot of coins is due to the effects of changing the reward distribution method from casting lots to individual treasure chests.

In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

The point the devs seem to be missing Camate is that the WoE coins were supposed to be the easier path to the more "difficult" Empyreans yet pre and post patch this just is not the case.

Post-Heroes Abyssea gives players the capability to churn through monsters like Carabosse and Kukulkan with ease. Due the to introduction of cheap brews, 3 atmas and TEs being trivial thanks to Abyssites, the difficulty that originally held back the Empyreans and made WoE weapons more attractive is gone.

So why exactly wouldn't the WoE weapons be made even easier? Pouches should be common occurrences and individuals should be swimming in coins because Heroes Abyssea set the standard that the Empyrean weapons would be easy to obtain.

The recent decision to cheapen the rarity of such items as Tiger King Hide and Sisyphus Fragments only strengthens the position that the developers want people to reach level 90 on Emps so why the extra hoops to jump through for the "inferior" weapons? I don't get the logic.

[Sparthos]

I have to repeat what I said on the first page and say the new WoE would be a fucking disaster if you could complete the weapon of your choice in two days, which seems to be what the lot of you are asking for.

It's called add items that require lots of points to obtain and thus incentive to repeat the event for a long time.

WoE+3s shouldn't be the incentive to do WoE because Empyreans have already been made so easy to obtain due to decisions made by the devs so making the -1 weapons a huge grind seems like backwards thinking.

[Orenwald]

Total Runs:1
Total Coins:1

..... that's a sample size, right? :P

[xbobx]

So lets look at some simple math, have to make assumptions. 5 type of coins, assume they have even drop rate and we will say you guaranteed one coin per run, truth is you may get none, or a pouch, so we will average it to one.

You do 10 runs a week casually, that is about 10 hours of time due to waiting. 30 coins times 5 assuming even rate that is 150 runs to get 30 coins you need, at 10 hours a week that is 15 weeks so almost 4 months.

If you spent 10 hours a week so 40 hours a month you could do 13 or so KI runs. In a 3 hour run you should get at least two sets average sometimes more sometimes less. so about 26 Ki sets a month. Considering single drop and popping nm, to get 50 of the item you talking at most a month and half, so that is 3 months of 10 hours a week.

Emp weapon casually in 3 months. Woe weapon casually just under 4 months.

this is SE's game balance. So SE forget about looking at what you think drop rate should be, look at the amount it takes to accomplish the goal and compare that to other weapons and see if it is balanced. btw it is not.

[Erecia]

Well. At least the devs are watching and thinking about WoE. More than I can say or hope for than hole-in-my-head Voidwatch.

[Camate]

Camate,
Please read or translate the above quote to the developers as precisely as you can. This sums it up perfectly.

Done annnnnd done.

[Krashport]

n/a123451676

[brayen]

the coin rate is bad. As others have said people usually only want one type of coin. My friend has gotten just 1 coin that he needed. Additionally die rate seems by far the worse. 10 new runs and yet to see any drop and we need 100 of these. Whoever is making this astonishingly lame leaps in difficulty should try playing the game before making such changes.

[MDenham]

Additionally die rate seems by far the worse. 10 new runs and yet to see any dropSince the plural of anecdote around here is data, I'll just mention that I've received two dice on two runs and probably made someone wonder if I'm crazy by selling them for 35k apiece rather than the 250k I've seen in people's bazaars.

[Zagen]

I hear alot not "All" say its so easier to obtain Empyrean weapons over Walk of echo weapons, Which only gives you the weapon skill, That being said, Then why waste your time doing Walk of echo's for the N.Q. Where you can so easy get the H.Q. This is an M.M.O.R.P.G. not an R.P.G. Yeah... I know we all like to solo here and there think its safe to say 49-64% but dang the game has dropped to low-man a lot, Do you just want SE to give you everything.. kinda what it sounds like.
It took my friend and I 2 months to get Sword/Katana to 85 at about 15 hours a week. So that's 120 hours time, 30 hours less than xbobx's example numbers, you don't think that's messed up for a weaker version? Now technically that's 30 hours less than it would take you to get 6 WoE weapons which means you get 4 extra but do you even want them?

Even at 99 I doubt WoE weapon's extra DMG will make up for the ODD on most if not all level 85 Emps. I'm pretty sure most people here see WoE as the casual person's option for a Emp WS but currently it seems that the casual player might as well invest that time and get 2 Emps for jobs they really like to play, or less time if they only enjoy 1 job. Considering the addition of +2s to all Emp NMs it isn't impossible to get outside help just for +2 chances.

[Luvbunny]

It seems that the developers are just being lazy and start on the conservative ends when it comes to the numbers of coins. After all, they do need to make sure that you have your "must have time sink" and do meaningless crap for bazillion times to extend gameplay - and rewarded poorly so that you have no options but to do them again and again. Now if only this equates with FUN, EASY and ENJOYABLE then more people will do it regardless of the hours and hours needed and the dismal drops since those are just a bonus for fun experience. Abyssea is one of the pinnacle achievement of this game, I wish the developers can continue with the high quality content on par with Abyssea and not creating the hot tranny mess that is everything else outside Abyssea...

[svengalis]

uh

how



He's referring to how it used to be. The reward structure under the new system functions independently of how many people participate.

Okay I will try to explain this so that you understand. Coin drop rates were INCREASED. The coins are divided amungst the players in the current flux. Lets say there is a 20 coin maximum drop per run no matter how many players enter the room. Lets say 36 people enter and the coins are divided evenly, this means 16 people wont get a coin. Now lets do the same scenario with 5 people. This now means everyone gets multiple coins. Understand it now?

This basically means that low manning fluxes 1-5 is more efficient then doing fluxes 8+ with 36 people.

[Delvish]

Hi, Camate!

I understand what you're saying, unfortunately I think the Devs are working under an imperfect understanding of how Walk of Echoes lotting used to function in practice.

The Devs are assuming, when they make their conclusions about the supply of Coins, that all players entering Walk of Echoes are free lotting all of the coins. In practice, this is not the case. Pre-Update, many players would lot on only one type of coin and pass alternate coin drops onto others. Rather than a free for all, an organized system of passing/lotting resulted in increased rewards for everyone present.

On an individual level, a player is more likely to end up with coins and items they do not need now than they would have previously, and less likely to obtain the items that they are pursuing.

While I understand the gap that must exist between the intended function of the system and the actual utilization by players in practice can often inhibit the Dev's understanding of our grievances, I hope that this will help to clear things up a bit.
I think an easy way to remedy this issue is to allow coins to be traded in for a different type, similar to the system of getting kindred seals from beastman seals. This way you can have a one to one ratio trade on different types of coins and the general populous isn't affecting the value of the items in a potentially dangerous way.

[svengalis]

Now I could be completely wrong and woe chest could be just as random as bcnm chest everytime. If that is the case then screw woe LOL.

[FrankReynolds]

Okay I will try to explain this so that you understand. Coin drop rates were INCREASED. The coins are divided amungst the players in the current flux. Lets say there is a 20 coin maximum drop per run no matter how many players enter the room. Lets say 36 people enter and the coins are divided evenly, this means 16 people wont get a coin. Now lets do the same scenario with 5 people. This now means everyone gets multiple coins. Understand it now?

This basically means that low manning fluxes 1-5 is more efficient then doing fluxes 8+ with 36 people.

actually how it works now is: a chest pops with a random number of items for each person.

The number of items in the chests is random and has nothing to do with the number of people.

no matter how many people enter, you still get the same crap in your chest.

the problem is that now you can't pass crap you don't need and lot on stuff you do need from other peoples pools.

you only have access to your drops.

[Asymptotic]

It's supposed to take you a long time to finish.
That said, people keep touting it's "easier" to do a HQ empyrean. It's not easier, it's faster. There is a difference.

As it stands right now, you can walk into WoE solo, autoattack and/or randomly cure stuff, and have a chance at coins/dice for a gimpyrean.

It takes longer but it is easier to get a gimpyrean weapon. You could do it naked, and no one would fault you for it, because most people are too busy being doomed by Annhialative Adenia to care that you're naked and spamming cure II on everything that moves.

[Krashport]

n/a123451676

[noodles355]

Hi, Camate!

I understand what you're saying, unfortunately I think the Devs are working under an imperfect understanding of how Walk of Echoes lotting used to function in practice.

The Devs are assuming, when they make their conclusions about the supply of Coins, that all players entering Walk of Echoes are free lotting all of the coins. In practice, this is not the case. Pre-Update, many players would lot on only one type of coin and pass alternate coin drops onto others. Rather than a free for all, an organized system of passing/lotting resulted in increased rewards for everyone present.

On an individual level, a player is more likely to end up with coins and items they do not need now than they would have previously, and less likely to obtain the items that they are pursuing.

While I understand the gap that must exist between the intended function of the system and the actual utilization by players in practice can often inhibit the Dev's understanding of our grievances, I hope that this will help to clear things up a bit.This post eloquently sums up what I was going to post with much less civility.

The dev team think personal coffers = everyone getting drops = more drops into the system.
What they dont take into account is I have no need for these Coins of Ruin and Coins of Glory that I keep getting from WoE and will either toss them immidiately, or just not collect them from the chest.

To be honest, if the dev team thinks that everyone will try to lot every coin in the old system, and thus everyone is happy with getting any random coin in there personal coffer in the new system, then that just shows how out of touch they are with the player base.

[Barber]

I received some feedback from the development team concerning coin drop rates. Since it has only been a couple of days since the version update was implemented and also considering that in there were adjustments to participation numbers as well as new chambers, we would like to make the appropriate decision while monitoring all these things on a wide-scale.

Also, it can be thought that the feeling of there not being a lot of coins is due to the effects of changing the reward distribution method from casting lots to individual treasure chests.

In the case of lotting rewards, the amount was based on the division between the number of participants, so there really isn’t any guarantee that you could obtain a reward even if there were a good amount of them, making it so the chance of you obtaining something would decrease with a higher amount of players participating.

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

Those are my findings in the original post. Since then I have been tracking drops for both myself, my mule, and several others. Here are the current results:

101 total runs
36 coins
2 pouches

If coins drop in a uniform manner that means every 101 runs I would receive 7 of each coin. That means it would take 404 runs to complete a set of 30 coins. Since each WoE run has a built in game day wait that means at the current rate I am collecting coins under the new system it would take 404 real life hours to complete only this trial for a walk of echoes weapon. When compared to the amount of time it takes to make a superior empyrean weapon this does not give a reward relative to the amount of effort involved.

As an example, pre update I got 21 coins of birth in 29 runs.

Post update I have gotten 2 coins of birth in 14 runs.

The ONLY reasons people I know are doing walk of echoes at the moment is:

1) For an outside shot at an expensive magic scroll
2) Because we all know eventually the new will wear off and instead of 36 people in each flux there will be 8 which will make zones incredibly hard to clear. So the feeling is if you don't get your coins now you never will.

404 hours for a bedlam +1 when it would take 40 hours to make an Armageddon. WoE rates need to be changed and changed tonight.

[xbobx]

^^ what he said

[Cratylus]

Also PLEASE change the area the Greater Amphiptere wanders in...

[Zagen]

HQ Vs. NQ why do people like to compare, Everything has its own time sink.

Why not compare them? If you don't look at the WoE version as a weaker but should be easier to get version why bother getting it at all?

Also how do you win WoE solo? Please don't say you saw a group but weren't with them so you're "solo"

[Buffy]

Also PLEASE change the area the Greater Amphiptere wanders in...

It's like...even match now. Just kill it.

[Shiyo]

It's like...even match now. Just kill it.
Too hard to kill EM mobs sorry.

[Krashport]

n/a123451676

[Kristal]

Under the old system, 5 people walked away with 5 weapons in x runs.
Under the new system, 1 person walked away with 1 weapon in 5x runs and 4 weapons worth of coins that either get stockpiled until another set of magian trials is completed, or outright thrown out.

Solution is easy: remove the EX flag from the coins so players can actually trade between them. Coins of Ruin get tossed regardless, but that's a given for a lolmelee staff.

[Kysaiana]

The obvious solution is to build every WoE weapon for every job, therefore you want every coin...

On a more serious note, one solution to the horrible reward system would be to have all WoE weapons require the same coin. I don't know how difficult it would be for SE to convert each type of WoE coin into a single type. With the old system it would have sucked to have everyone lotting the same coin, but since everyone gets personal chests now I think it would work out better.

Of course if there's only one type of coin then SE would probably have to adjust the rate at which you get a coin or pouch in your chest.

Another solution might be to have a NPC that exchanges coins at a 3:1 ratio similar to the kindred seal/crest etc NPC.

Either way as it stands now I'd have to agree that empyrean are far less hassle to obtain than the randomness that is WoE. Just my two cents.

[Seriha]

Overall, I'm worried about both coin and scroll rates once the new patch rush fades and people lose interest. It will happen eventually and anyone who missed the rush will basically suffer.

[Kogenta]

Camate,
Please read or translate the above quote to the developers as precisely as you can. This sums it up perfectly.

In a perfect world maybe, but in a world were servers are populated by greedy people, the old system sucked way more than the current one. It was not infrequent to have people enter a flux, leech with a low lvl job with RR and just overlot everything in the pool. And you could do nothing to stop that except exit and lose your medallion. WOW, such a fair system.

Just let us POOL stuff we don't need, like Abyssean chests. If the pool is full don't let us pool it and have a message "the pool is full. please lot or pass everything and try again" or just give autolot priority to mats and THEN to coin and equips. OR put in pool only coins and pouches and not mats and scrolls and equips, since those are tradable, so that you don't risk to overflood pool and have stuff autolot

[Kristal]

In a perfect world maybe, but in a world were servers are populated by greedy people, the old system sucked way more than the current one. It was not infrequent to have people enter a flux, leech with a low lvl job with RR and just overlot everything in the pool. And you could do nothing to stop that except exit and lose your medallion. WOW, such a fair system.

That happened only rarely, and the culprit often found himself acting as a stool for a boss. Assuming the rest wasn't outlotting him on anything he dared lotting.

[Kogenta]

That happened only rarely, and the culprit often found himself acting as a stool for a boss. Assuming the rest wasn't outlotting him on anything he dared lotting.

Maybe on Bismark there is only kind and educated people, but i often saw people seacom 2 or even 3 coins and thus lotting them regardless of others asking them politely to choose only one coin. Or lotting and be fair the whole run then when a pouch drops from the final chest the greedy demon in every man comes out, and the lotwar begins. Then one fair man that see his final 900lot advncement pouch overlotted for 901 by a random guy passing by that has birth in seacom... Tell him that this stuff happens rarely.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think anyone was asking for the old system back. The post I quoted simply explains why the new system sucks and in no way fixes the issues from the previous system. While I agree with the Idea of having each person get 1 chest, I think they need to make the coins Sell-able so that people can get what they need. Or maybe they could drastically increase the drop rate in chests. I quoted that post because it explained the problem with the system so well, and hopefully will prevent this system from being implemented elsewhere.

[Sargent]

I don't want to be critical on the official forums, but I gotta say, this new Walk of Echoes simply isn't working. Yes, much more people are entering, but I'm seeing less coinage from 36 people clearing the zone (that's with getting decent EXP per run) than I was soloing/duoing before. As it's no doubt been said before, Empyrean Weapons that were already easier to obtain than the Walk of Echoes counterparts are now even easier to obtain in comparison.

I don't think realistically we're asking for things like the drop rate on new scrolls to be increased, but most people that do (or did) WoE did it for coins. We would obviously like to see these once in a while.

[xbobx]

Personally when you look at time vs reward, I think the nm camping and vnm killing is sufficient enough to obtain a weapon of this calibre. I really don't think the coins should be that much of a time sink to get. I have no issue with guaranteed 1 coin drop rate and one coin is used for all weapons. Look at the other parts of the trial. Kindred crests. Elemental weapons are down to just collecting geodes now. Some elemental weapons are better then the woe counterparts, so put them on the same footing. The woe are about the WS and it is bad enough that some jobs are either flight or fail if they don't have that one ws as it is. like Ranger.

[noodles355]

I agree that making Coins tradeable/bazaarable or AHable would be the best solution. Devious Die are, so why not coins?

[Asymptotic]

They've already said that making coins tradeable/bazaarable would make it too easy, and they're right.
You have the choice of:

1.) Getting coins through WoE slowly, but requiring virtually no effort on your own part other than patience, and getting a WoE weapon.
2.) Putting forth some effort, getting a group together, buying pop items or cleaving for KIs, and doing a real Empyrean weapon, although it will most likely be faster than the WoE weapon, it does require significantly more manpower-dedicated-to-you-alone, skill, and gear.

[xbobx]

slowly like half a year? then to get the dice another year to 2 years? yet within 2 months no one will be doing Woe so it wont be possible to even get.

[scaevola]

I've picked up about 25 or so coins since Tuesday. You're exaggerating.

Not for nothing, in the downtime waiting for the day to turn*, I finished building some shelves for my apartment, and started reading the new David Foster Wallace. Take that, gold box farming!

(big lolz at people dumping on welfare weapons for being welfare weapons, and then turning around and complaining about how they aren't welfare enough)



*raise the coin drop rates if you want but if you take away my ability to get up, do other things, and know the precise moment when a few dozen people will simultaneously be elgible to start a new run, i will fight you

[xbobx]

I have picked up 3 coins, none of them I need either. and no I am not exaggerating. I am not going to spend 2-3 hours a night doing just Woe, there are many other things I need to do also. So yes, easily 4 months for me to get my coins and I guarantee Woe will be dead in 2 months if adjustments aren't made.

[Kristal]

I've picked up about 25 or so coins since Tuesday. You're exaggerating.

Not for nothing, in the downtime waiting for the day to turn, I built some shelves for my apartment. Take that, Carabosse!

So 5 Advancement, 5 Birth, 5 Decay, 5 Glory and 5 Ruin? Most of which are wasted since you either got the weapons already or don't plan on doing them?

[scaevola]

Or you could spend 40 minutes doing woe and the remainder of those 2-3 hours doing other things. With a retrace scroll it takes under two minutes to get to WoE from anywhere in the game, and most of that is just getting Sigil and a new scroll. Moreover, you always know exactly when new runs will be starting: the change of day. When you did old school FoV, did you just hang around idling in the zone after completing a regime, waiting for the next day to start? This is the same thing. Even if you personally have a bunch of other stuff you could be doing in the game, at any given time there will be over 300 people idling in Jeuno on Cerberus and if even a fraction of them say "hey, maybe I could haul my pink ass to WoE for a little while", this event will be just fine.

As for the agony of random number generation, there's no rush here unless of course everybody gets all their weapons done, which is why I want to keep the drop rates as they are. You think people are going to get bored with a grindy event that is straightforward even if agonizingly slow? Are we playing the same game? Did the first 7 years of FFXI just not exist?


So 5 Advancement, 5 Birth, 5 Decay, 5 Glory and 5 Ruin? Most of which are wasted since you either got the weapons already or don't plan on doing them?


Something like that. Advancement's obviously Rev Fists and Birth will be Daka, but I can't decide whether to use Glory for Tobi or Maschu. WAR's 60, but who cares?

I finished my Decays for Hiradennotachi and am now 1/30 on Decays towards getting Jishnu's Radiance or perhaps Torcleaver. I don't even know what the weapons are called. My RNG is level 18 and my DRK is 22.

I have not before been interested in playing either RNG or DRK, but between book-burning and effectively dinging into the second-best weapon in the game for either of those jobs, this would be a one-week investment on my part if I change my mind.


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/deal-with-it

[xbobx]

Ok so you are saying do one a day, with getting a coin maybe 50% of the time, that would take 300 days to possibly get 30 coins, that is 10 months. Ya that is not overkill to get a ws. And as I said, this content will be long dead by then. I don't think anyone is insane to do something as stupid as that to get a weaponskill. Fact is within that year this game may not even be around for all we know.

[FrankReynolds]

Or you could spend 40 minutes doing woe and the remainder of those 2-3 hours doing other things. With a retrace scroll it takes under two minutes to get to WoE from anywhere in the game, and most of that is just getting Sigil and a new scroll. Moreover, you always know exactly when new runs will be starting: the change of day. When you did old school FoV, did you just hang around idling in the zone after completing a regime, waiting for the next day to start? This is the same thing. Even if you personally have a bunch of other stuff you could be doing in the game, at any given time there will be over 300 people idling in Jeuno on Cerberus and if even a fraction of them say "hey, maybe I could haul my pink ass to WoE for a little while", this event will be just fine.

As for the agony of random number generation, there's no rush here unless of course everybody gets all their weapons done, which is why I want to keep the drop rates as they are. You think people are going to get bored with a grindy event that is straightforward even if agonizingly slow? Are we playing the same game? Did the first 7 years of FFXI just not exist?




Something like that. I finished my Decays for Hiradennotachi and am now 1/30 on Decays towards getting Jishnu's Radiance or perhaps Torcleaver. I don't even know what the weapons are called. My RNG is level 18 and my DRK is 22.

I have not before been interested in playing either RNG or DRK, but between book-burning and effectively dinging into the second-best weapon in the game for either of those jobs, this would be a one-week investment on my part if I change my mind.


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/deal-with-it

So your reasoning for keeping shitty drop rates on a time sink event is that everyone should just level every job...... that makes perfect sense. I'll just go do that now.

[scaevola]

Was that not the reasoning behind Abyssea in general?

[Nellaf]

I have now done 21 Walk of Echo runs in the new format as a 95 BST. I did a full world run starting at flux 1 and moving up each flux until flux 10. (still don't have access to 11). In my 21 run I recieved 17 random coins, 3 dice, and about 7 million in gil from item drops.

While I think this new Walk of Echoes is superior to the old. I do think the randomness of the coins is disheartening. It does take longer to farm one Walk of Echoes Emphy weaponskill then to do a real Emphy weapon. I have a kannagi that I duo'd 100% with a friend so I am aware of how long it takes to low man one.

My only real happiness with this system is the fact that I have 12 level 95 jobs, and I will finish 5 Walk of Echo weapons at the exact same time. So for me, Walk of Echo farming is a good idea, since it will shoot 5 birds at once.

If I was going after just a single Walk of Echoes weapon, I wouldn't bother, its a waste of time.

[scaevola]

That's actually exactly my point. Walk of Echoes probably IS a waste of time for people who only ever play one job; those people can get an actual Empyrean and be fine with it because they'll use it 100% of the time.

It was my general fickleness about jobs that drove me to WoE to begin with, pre-patch; the general brainlessness of it now is just gravy.

[FrankReynolds]

Was that not the reasoning behind Abyssea in general?

No. If everyone had all the jobs, this thread wouldn't be here. Fairly obvious.

[xbobx]

I wish i could do flux 1 to 10. Everytime I go everyone stalks to 9, and maybe 7. There is always 0 people in all the other fluxes. did you notice any difference in coin drops from the lower ones compared to higher?

[scaevola]

No. If everyone had all the jobs, this thread wouldn't be here. Fairly obvious.

Everyone can GET the jobs really easily now, though. This, as I said, was the main purpose (and will ultimately be the staying power) of Abyssea, GoV book-burning, etc.

Bottom line is, once I finish the coins for Rev Fists/Daka/Maschu or Tobi, I'll probably be at or pretty close to being able to make the WoE Bow or Greatsword, if I want. As you could tell by my job levels, I had not previously considered playing DRK or RNG. If WoE, as a side-effect of accomplishing my own explicit goals, actually gets me to consider the merits of playing a job I'd never considered before*, I can't imagine what could make it more successful as an event.


*and with the carrot, rather than the stick, mind you; "here's Jishnu's if you decide to try out RNG" is much different than "you will have a much easier time clearing CoP if you level BLM"

[FrankReynolds]

Everyone can GET the jobs really easily now, though. This, as I said, was the main purpose (and will ultimately be the staying power) of Abyssea, GoV book-burning, etc.

So basically: you have time to level and gear 20 jobs and therefore everyone else does too.

By your logic, no one should ever pass any gear ever because eventually they will need everything. Is that how it works in your shell? Because I would really like to lot everything in every event. You know... seeing as I will need everything some day. You don't mind lotting against my level 1 thf mule for gear do you? I'm going to get around to leveling thf eventually on him.

[scaevola]

So basically: you have time to level and gear 20 jobs and therefore everyone else does too.

No, I do not. If I am thinking about playing a new job, I need to carefully weigh the costs and benefits of doing so. Getting Jishnu's Radiance by accident would fall in the "benefit" column, and well, I have a hard time calling something in a game that would entice a player to play more a flaw in the game, even if actually doing so might not be such a great idea for said player.


By your logic, no one should ever pass any gear ever because eventually they will need everything. Is that how it works in your shell? Because I would really like to lot everything in every event. You know... seeing as I will need everything some day. You don't mind lotting against my level 1 thf mule for gear do you? I'm going to get around to leveling thf eventually on him.

Gosh, I hadn't thought of that! Tell you what: next time I have to lot against somebody else for a Coin of Decay, I'll be sure to pass!

[Nellaf]

xbobx - When I went through the full circle (1 through 10) the coin drop rate was about the same, the only thing that changed was the gear that could drop. Got the cure +4% cape in 9 and a belt and neck from some of the older ones. If I had to guess, I would say coin drop rate is equal in all the zones but if your farming for certain gear, stick to the ones you want the gear from.

[scaevola]

Also, bob, I'd reiterate my T&T advice from earlier; I can't say without a doubt that this will help, but one way you could conceivably raise your coin drop rates is to keep low-value Rare items you get from the chests in your inventory. This will prevent them from loading, and I haven't seen anything to suggest the WoE chest works differently from BCNM chests in this regard.

[xbobx]

I will try that. I just want to see other fluxes get populated. I kept trying to come different jobs to be of use. I first came pup , but puppet kept dieing and the HP down was a nightmare making puppet easy to one shot. So I thought I will come whm since so many people were dieing and no one heals. Then everyone came smn and bst so no one to heal.
Now I think i will try bst.
Maybe i should gather a party of bsts, I assume 6 bsts could clear 1-4

[Zagen]

IF ya would of read my full post, You would have seen that I've compare them. Out of the lowest time sink and easiest to get: NQ>HQ. All one needs are coins for the NQ there is way more involved in unlocking HQ

Reread my comparison then because I pointed out how it took less time to get 2 Emp weapons to 85 stage than it would take to get 1 WoE weapon you want to 90. xbobx's numbers don't sound that far off which is why I compared against them. Also I'll argue when factoring in time and random factor for coins it is much easier to get Emp weapon than it is a WoE weapon.

[FrankReynolds]

No, I do not. If I am thinking about playing a new job, I need to carefully weigh the costs and benefits of doing so.

So compensating for lower drops on items that you need to get by increasing drops on items you don't need = waste of time. glad we cleared that up.




Gosh, I hadn't thought of that! Tell you what: next time I have to lot against somebody else for a Coin of Decay, I'll be sure to pass!

I wish you could. Someone else might actually need them and not want to spend a month on it.

[Rezeak]

On the other hand, individual treasure chests give one player’s worth of rewards, so it’s possible that the volume feels a bit poor. However, you are guaranteed to obtain these rewards and it is equivalent to the results after lotting. Since we have prepared this on an individual scale, in actuality the total number of rewards have increased. On this basis, the system has been set up so the total amount of coins, as well as the amount gained by a single player, will increase.

No cause before you used to lot the coins u wanted now your forced to have the coins u don't want
Either way before i got 30 coins in 4-10 runs now ur looking at 70-100 runs lol so the amount gained by a single player hasn't increased.

Either way so far WoE is ALOT better but needs some fine tuning.

[Taint2]

No cause before you used to lot the coins u wanted now your forced to have the coins u don't want
Either way before i got 30 coins in 4-10 runs now ur looking at 70-100 runs lol so the amount gained by a single player hasn't increased.

Either way so far WoE is ALOT better but needs some fine tuning.


Sounds dead on to me.

[Vitus]

Here is my personal result so far in 50+ runs:
Birth: 19
Advancement: 11
Glory: 18
Decay: 17
Ruin: 20

Atm, I need glory the most, but only got one in the last 7 runs. I agree with most ppl here, this new system takes longer to get the 30 coins you need.

[Leonlionheart]

At this point I'd say that the Carabosse/Cirein-Croin path is four times faster than farming WoE for coins, for an unbelievably superior weapon.

Only WoE weapons worth making atm are probably Dagger, Scythe, Polearm, and Staff. As for the rest the Empyrean is either easy as hell, or too good to pass up (HI 2 U GA and H2H).

[Alhanelem]

I wouldn't mind synthesis materials and such if they were materials that people actually used for high level synthesis, instead of low rank junk that is of no use to a high level player or crafter.

Also, the drop rate of Devious Dice is absurdly low, considering WoE weapon's inferiority to Empyreans.
I suppose 150 dice is maybe easier than 1500 whatevers form voidwatch, but the trial upgrade for the emps is bigger in size. if the item is overall inferior and the upgrade smaller, the trial should be measurably easier. But it doesn't feel like it is.

[Barber]

The inherent problem with the dice will eventually be the fact that the only reason to continue doing walk of echoes is to build a walk of echoes weapon. If your server is like mine there are 80-200 people in WoE 24 hours a day. With all that traffic there have been 1-7 sales of the new spells on the AH. Clearly the drop rate for spells is mega low in WoE.

That being said, if spells are dropped more readily other places (voidwatch, ksnm) then the only people who will frequent WoE will be people upgrading a WoE weapon. This is an issue because once people get their weapon the rewards are so low on a cost/benefit ratio that nobody will continue doing it. This inevitably means people are going to need to farm the majority (if not the entirety) of the dice they will need for their weapon. It will be just like the current situation, but with less people playing and more required items.

This is just a really poorly thought out system for something that is several years old.

[Shellke]

Easy solution to drops problem:

Remove singles completelly, only pouches should come from chests, with the same frequency as coins now.
Make an NPC that exchanges any coins for dies.

People can get 30 coins in a reasonable amount of time that way, and getting 100 dies should be just a bit easier than coins and people that were doing WoE for a long time already and stacking coins are getting some love as well.

[Zaknafein]

Well initially I was quite pleased with the changes to WoE. However in the last 12-15 runs I have not seen a single coin drop even though I have been doing the same flux (9) and on the same job (Smn). My evaluation rarely fluctuates if that even has a bearing on drops... seems pretty random.

I am definitely very happy with how the event has been restructured. It feels as if WoE will take the place of what Campaign Battle used to, which the game has been sorely lacking. A place where people can go get some small cash drops, a small amount of xp, and now a shot at some big $$$ drops. The WoE version empy's mats just need to be balanced a bit I think. I'm not a huge fan of the make them lottable idea. Just needs a tweak here or there to the drop rate.

To people saying "why would anyone do this event when they can make so, and so empy in X amount of time" WoE offers a chance for people who do not dual box, who are short on play time per week, or just plain don't wish to team up a chance to make a decent weapon over time. When you add the xp/small gil rewards/chance at big $$$ drops/ and the option to sell the dice if you so choose... the system makes a lot of sense. A small tweak to reward vs evaluation, and SE has done very well with this one.

[Gokku]

id just like it to change from :
Are you a Bst Smn Pup ? Y/N * if yes skip to option 4*
Are you any other job then Cor Rng thf/rng sam/rng Y/N * if no skip to option 4*
Change to Bst Smn Pup Cor Rng
Your good to Go

seriously when 0 chain and Aegis plds are getitng there shit packed in because theres 15 smns 9 bsts 5 pups and 6 blms
and everyone else is a dead DD , your event is useless to anyone whos not a ranged or pet job.

seriously im 1/2 tempted to level smn to 95 in abyssea nakied so i can do woe and not spend 3/4ths the run weak.

[Malamasala]

It seemed like they still had alliance hate? Kind of sad they didn't fix that because it is annoying when it starts to go downhill and you need to have everyone stay dead to avoid getting knocked out again after raise.

Also I don't see the big issue with having some content ranged job focused. Haven't pretty much everything between 2006 and 2011 been melee oriented? I heard no complaints then from SMNs and BLMs. I guess it is just melee jobs who are spoiled and complain as soon as they aren't the best jobs in the game.

[Gokku]

there's a major difference between DD's being an acceptable choice with ranged / pet jobs being preferred and how flux's 8 9 10 are now, unless your on a pet job your weakened usless and are wasting your time. Flux's 1-7 You could come DD and it wasnt useless you could come pld tank the mobs and if you had some back up you would be fine. 8 , 1300+ SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM SPAM 9, HP DOWN AOE 1300 INSTA DEATH woooo , 10?! DOOMGA. ive done 6 conflux 10 runs , every run but one has been won due to brew's and the one they didnt brew had 10 smns and 6 bsts and everyone else just tagged along.

SE just really needs to adjust the instant kill shit , or take the slam off the babys , take the vermilion and cataclysmic winds off the babys . remove fatal scream above 50%. those are small things that make the entire run alot more DD friendly with out it taking away from pets supremacy.

[Shadowsong]

SE apparently underestimates the ease at obtaining an Empyrean. Im confused why anyone would get a WoE weapon, other than the toy weapons (ohhistaff)

[MDenham]

8 , 1300+ SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM SPAMHaving done 8, while this is an entertaining characterization of it, it's only accurate as far as the two boss turtles are concerned.

The real problem with 8 is that nobody knows how to kite Genbu.

Seriously. 8 is piss-easy as long as you have someone kiting all the babies, because the babies move slowly. Instead, everyone is like "O HEY IT'S A MOB, I THINK I'LL HIT IT", and you run out of time because there aren't enough people putting damage onto the boss turtles.

And for the love of god, if you're doing 8 on SMN, quit using Ramuh and Garuda. Turtles are weak to ice. Use Shiva already and quit drooling on your keyboard.

[Gokku]

i totally revise my statement i just got comet from the box and all i did was cast 5 nukes and run like a school girl for 5mins.
thx smns your feeding my gil fund.

[Zaknafein]

i totally revise my statement i just got comet from the box and all i did was cast 5 nukes and run like a school girl for 5mins.
thx smns your feeding my gil fund.

Actually every run where I got a beast loot pool was where I had a low eval from DC'ing on entry, and returning for the last 5mins.

[Shiyo]

It seemed like they still had alliance hate? Kind of sad they didn't fix that because it is annoying when it starts to go downhill and you need to have everyone stay dead to avoid getting knocked out again after raise.

Also I don't see the big issue with having some content ranged job focused. Haven't pretty much everything between 2006 and 2011 been melee oriented? I heard no complaints then from SMNs and BLMs. I guess it is just melee jobs who are spoiled and complain as soon as they aren't the best jobs in the game.
The problem is it takes literally no skill to play a pet job. Pet jobs are for complete idiots who should be playing farmville or something if they're so easily entertained by /pet attack - > go afk while your pet attacks crap.

How can ANYONE find pet jobs fun? You basically do NOTHING and stand there like derp derp derp while your dumb pet beats on things, OH SO EXCITING!

I guess watching paint dry would be entertaining to someone who finds pet jobs fun.

[Aver]

The problem is it takes literally no skill to play a pet job. Pet jobs are for complete idiots who should be playing farmville or something if they're so easily entertained by /pet attack - > go afk while your pet attacks crap.

How can ANYONE find pet jobs fun? You basically do NOTHING and stand there like derp derp derp while your dumb pet beats on things, OH SO EXCITING!

I guess watching paint dry would be entertaining to someone who finds pet jobs fun.

Maybe it's just that it's too early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee yet, but are you seriously this retarded?

[MDenham]

If you're standing there doing nothing while your pet beats on things, you're either doing stuff that shouldn't have normal melees on it anyway or you're just a failure at your job.

Really, there's not much difference between sending your pet to auto-attack things and going AFK and walking up to a mob, auto-attacking it, and going AFK.

EDIT: Aver, I'm thinking that it's a very strong possibility that yes, Shiyo really is that retarded.

[Shiyo]

Being immune to all AOE dmg while your pet solo's things 20+ yalms away is tough. AOE inc? NP, Don't need to put on mdt or pdt gear, don't need cures, don't need haste, don't need -na's, don't need to manage shadows, don't need to manage hasso/seigan/thirdeye, don't need to manage JA's, don't need to do ANYTHING. Just pet + afk, maybe hit a BP every ~40 seconds, woo.

I'm sorry if you felt the need to defend your afkfest jobs :(

[Zaknafein]

Maybe it's just that it's too early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee yet, but are you seriously this retarded?

She's practically a celebrity over at ffxiah ... some even speculate that she could be Rosina's long lost twin separated at birth!

[Vortex]

The problem is it takes literally no skill to play a pet job. Pet jobs are for complete idiots who should be playing farmville or something if they're so easily entertained by /pet attack - > go afk while your pet attacks crap.

How can ANYONE find pet jobs fun? You basically do NOTHING and stand there like derp derp derp while your dumb pet beats on things, OH SO EXCITING!

I guess watching paint dry would be entertaining to someone who finds pet jobs fun.

I think you are actually as dumb as rosina, if you are seriously this much of a comeplte retard, either you have never even unlocked a pet job or your were smacked on the head alot of times, i i dare you to go after anything remoetly challaging with any pet job and see if you can win, since it takes "no skill" this is seriously the most retarded thing i have ever seen anyone say about a job.

[Aver]

inb4 I was SMN95 in 2006

[SNK]

The problem is it takes literally no skill to play a pet job. Pet jobs are for complete idiots who should be playing farmville or something if they're so easily entertained by /pet attack - > go afk while your pet attacks crap.

How can ANYONE find pet jobs fun? You basically do NOTHING and stand there like derp derp derp while your dumb pet beats on things, OH SO EXCITING!

I guess watching paint dry would be entertaining to someone who finds pet jobs fun.

Wow you're just....... really off arn't you?

[Nynja]

If you're standing there doing nothing while your pet beats on things, you're either doing stuff that shouldn't have normal melees on it anyway or you're just a failure at your job.

Really, there's not much difference between sending your pet to auto-attack things and going AFK and walking up to a mob, auto-attacking it, and going AFK.

EDIT: Aver, I'm thinking that it's a very strong possibility that yes, Shiyo really is that retarded.

And whats the difference between setting your char to auto attack things? Or I guess you're more into it, you actually bob and weave like youre Ali while your mnk punches things...

[Aver]

And whats the difference between setting your char to auto attack things? Or I guess you're more into it, you actually bob and weave like youre Ali while your mnk punches things...

I'm imagining being strapped in with a VR helmet playing FF now, like ye olde 90s VR games.

[MDenham]

And whats the difference between setting your char to auto attack things?This sentence appears to have lost half its verbage in the wash.

Assuming the question is actually "what's the difference between turning on auto-attack and going AFK, and turning on auto-attack and sitting at the keyboard not doing anything"... nothing. You'll survive, or not, just as long either way.

I wasn't debating whether or not going AFK while you're fighting something is a good idea, just whether or not pet jobs require less interaction with the input device than other jobs do.

[Sparthos]

Thanks SE for overabundant brews.

I can now switch my brain over to autopilot and ponder the meaning of lint.

[xbobx]

never seen anyone get one yet.

[Aver]

I don't understand why there's this feeling of resentment towards brews being added in as random rare chest drops. Don't you like cackling manically as you destroy a zone every now and then?

[Sparthos]

I don't understand why there's this feeling of resentment towards brews being added in as random rare chest drops. Don't you like cackling manically as you destroy a zone every now and then?

It's a vicious cycle where at first you're like "yay" then you're like "oh" and then finally you're like "aw jeez". It's much like cheat codes in an offline game or playing Monopoly where everyone starts off with a ton of cash.

What's the point of a 36man (lol) chamber when one person can solo everything? The new fluxes already cheapen melee classes through AOE spam, doomspam and HP reductions... do we really need invincibility drinks on top of that? It just screams poorly thought out and discourages fun or cooperation.

[Greatguardian]

New chambers can still floor a Brewed character. Between Amnesia spam and Doom, I've seen a couple brews get wrecked by Flux 10.

[Vortex]

It's not as if they are common and can just be selected at will like abyssea, besides i agree, nothing wrong with a chance every now and then to laugh like a maniac as you spam ws/spells for 3 minutes, assuiming you don't get: stoned, doomed, terror or death (if something even does that) at this point with the massive flood of people most fluxes are usually downed in 10 minutes (well mainly 9) and except 10 because mandies are evil and deserve to be gutted.

[Sparthos]

The point is that brews just aren't that rare.

Having a cool superman button is nice but when it's something that appears as frequently as the current WoE, it just undercuts the event.

[Shiyo]

Event is designed for "casuals", thus it's made very retard friendly and spams I win buttons in your face~

[svengalis]

I don't want the coins to ne sellable. I know it would be easier and you could make a weapon without ever entering woe but then I think less people would do it. I think they need to do a trade in deal like they did with beastman seals as someone else suggested. That way we are not throwing away coins or having useless ones taking up inventory space.

[svengalis]

id just like it to change from :
Are you a Bst Smn Pup ? Y/N * if yes skip to option 4*
Are you any other job then Cor Rng thf/rng sam/rng Y/N * if no skip to option 4*
Change to Bst Smn Pup Cor Rng
Your good to Go

seriously when 0 chain and Aegis plds are getitng there shit packed in because theres 15 smns 9 bsts 5 pups and 6 blms
and everyone else is a dead DD , your event is useless to anyone whos not a ranged or pet job.

seriously im 1/2 tempted to level smn to 95 in abyssea nakied so i can do woe and not spend 3/4ths the run weak.

I unlocked and started summoner 2 days ago because of this...

[Yugl]

So we went from 1-2 casual douches ninja lotting your coin to 30 douches lotting all the coins!

Though you have to admit that the structure of the new convluxes favors this system since it would be near impossible to get 36 people to agree on drop results (Without an all out brawl) and 6-man groups fighting the new chambers wouldn't necessarily have the best results unless you're working with an LS.

[Zaknafein]

I've spammed WoE to death since the update, and I have yet to receive or see anyone use a brew.

[Rearden]

I've done 50 runs myself now, and the only reason I'm anywhere near getting what I want is because I got lucky with a pouch in Flux#7 (only got 2000xp too) and that pouch was of the coins I needed. Aside from that, I've got 23 coins in 50 runs and of those 23, 6 were actually what I needed.

6 coins in 50 runs =/= better loot.

The way this event is structured now is actually fine, there just needs to be a way to get what I'm actually looking for. If I spent 50 runs doing WoE, that's roughly 50 hours of gameplay (even if I'm only doing something for 10-20m of it, I'm still at my computer or around it) If you qualified for x number of coins due to performance and could choose, that would be better. If you could trade coins in, that would be better.

Giving us the excuse that "coin drop rates have increased overall" is asinine and insulting at best.

[Ravenmore]

Every saying its not bad now what happen when people stop doing WoE in mass. When you don't have people spamming it every hour of the day and you need a build a group to win the event why not just take the same or a smaller group to make a weapon you want.

[Kimble]

Event is designed for "casuals", thus it's made very retard friendly and spams I win buttons in your face~

Sounds like its right up your alley then.

[Zaknafein]

Event is designed for "casuals", thus it's made very retard friendly and spams I win buttons in your face~

That is somehow different than your precious empy farming, or abyssea in general...

[Leonlionheart]

Honestly tired of getting coins I already have weapons for.

[Elexia]

inb4 I was SMN95 in 2006


To be fair, all those people who told me they were a 99 SMN on Cerberus server before rejoining on kujata will be right in a year.

2004 was a great year.

[Leonlionheart]

Ok so I got 12k exp in flux 11 WoE. Got 5 drops, 1 coin I don't need, 4 silver ore-esque pieces of shit.

Someone else was alive the entire time, got 5k. Got 4 drops, 1 coin, 1 die, and 1 Flume Belt.

This is some f***ed up s***.

[Gokku]

i can confirm better drops with less work EVERY run i did on blm were all i did was nuke *5k exp 100%* i got 1 coin 1 dies or 1 spell , ive done 4 runs getting 8000 exp *nuke 1/2 time then cure spam* and now im only getting shit synth mats

[Leonlionheart]

so wait, if you suck more you get better drops?

[Zaknafein]

Yeah I have to agree. Doesn't make any sense but I have spammed it since monday, and that's the conclusion I've come to.

[noodles355]

At this point I'd say that the Carabosse/Cirein-Croin path is four times faster than farming WoE for coins, for an unbelievably superior weapon.

Only WoE weapons worth making atm are probably Dagger, Scythe, Polearm, and Staff. As for the rest the Empyrean is either easy as hell, or too good to pass up (HI 2 U GA and H2H).Polearm was never worth making.

[Vortex]

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart View Post
At this point I'd say that the Carabosse/Cirein-Croin path is four times faster than farming WoE for coins, for an unbelievably superior weapon.

Only WoE weapons worth making atm are probably Dagger, Scythe, Polearm, and Staff. As for the rest the Empyrean is either easy as hell, or too good to pass up (HI 2 U GA and H2H).
Polearm was never worth making.

Nor any of those other weapons are worth making, in fact not a single woe weapon is worth making because the superior part is still easier ti get then this crap, with the exception of maybe h2h because even a waterd down version of VS is still good. the rest are a waste of time.

[noodles355]

with the exception of maybe h2h because even a waterd down version of VS is still good.Only for mnks. Making WoE weapon for Pup for the WS is pretty dumb.
Smite: 5.25ftp 60%STR crit WS.
Pummel: 5.75ftp 32%STR/VIT crit WS.

[Nynja]

so wait, if you suck more you get better drops?

You didnt know this game caters to gimps?

[Gokku]

sad thing is my blm is "gimp" and out nukes most blms in WoE, its just you only get SO much exp for just nukes / basic cures and that exp cap seems to be the golden spot for dice.
todays total
6 dice
6 p ores
metric ton of junk
4-5 smithing mats that i use . needed
1 coin of birth

total runs : 23

[Nynja]

What am I supposed to do with the 46 coins of ruin my mule has?

[Rearden]

My only pouch was Flux7 when I scored between 4 and less than 5kxp. It just happened to be the coin I needed, if I hadn't of got lucky with that pouch with those coins I'd be sitting at 7 coins of glory/55 runs

That's about the requisite number of hours it would take me to do 80-85 Ukon.

[Mirage]

What am I supposed to do with the 46 coins of ruin my mule has?
Toss them and make a real empy.

[Leonlionheart]

sad thing is my blm is "gimp" and out nukes most blms in WoE, its just you only get SO much exp for just nukes / basic cures and that exp cap seems to be the golden spot for dice.
todays total
6 dice
6 p ores
metric ton of junk
4-5 smithing mats that i use . needed
1 coin of birth

total runs : 23

That's not good at all, I've done about 12 runs now, 9~12k exp each time, 5 Dice, and 6 coins (not ruin, but a lot of crap I've already made weapons with)

Edit: It's looking to just be completely random

[Psion]

I have an idea. Why not increase the drop rate of coins and die to reasonable levels, and do this instead to make WoE popular indefinitely: Make it so that any primeval brews you find in WoE, are preserved and available to you in abyssea as well? This means people will actually want to do WoE for free brews that they can then use in abyssea for things they want, ensuring that the event has interest for as long as abyssea does.

There's no reason to make people suffer for trying to get an inferior weapon, when you can simply reward people for coming with something everyone wants: free brews! (Ok, you won't get one every run, or even every couple runs, but out of 9 runs or so I've managed to get 2, and as fun as it is, I wished I could've saved them for something worthwhile, like Shinryu. lol)

[Soranika]

I got two single coins and one devious dye out of like 6 runs, but most of the other stuff was just pure junk. I kinda wish I did spam woe before the update. Maybe could have finished daka +2 but now it seems like I could just as easily just gather to make an 85 emp dagger instead of waiting to do woe just once every game day for a random chance to win just a single coin cause I bet pouch drops are even more abysmal now.

[Nynja]

Toss them and make a real empy.

You mean like my Almace and Gandiva and the Vere on my mule and the Masamune on my other mule?

Or a real empy that requires 1500 heavy plates to cap out.

[Nynja]

I have an idea. Why not increase the drop rate of coins and die to reasonable levels, and do this instead to make WoE popular indefinitely: Make it so that any primeval brews you find in WoE, are preserved and available to you in abyssea as well? This means people will actually want to do WoE for free brews that they can then use in abyssea for things they want, ensuring that the event has interest for as long as abyssea does.

There's no reason to make people suffer for trying to get an inferior weapon, when you can simply reward people for coming with something everyone wants: free brews! (Ok, you won't get one every run, or even every couple runs, but out of 9 runs or so I've managed to get 2, and as fun as it is, I wished I could've saved them for something worthwhile, like Shinryu. lol)

No...Just no

And I've yet to see ANYONE get, or atleast use, a brew in WoE. I've checked my logs for the word "brew", and it hasnt shown up.

And upping coin drop rate wont matter...because theres limited utility with them. The only practical usage ones are the ones with the best WS available for that weapon:
GAX, h2h, katana, gun for brewing since ODD doesnt really matter on that weapon. Dagger and Bow are situational, I've found outside abyssea Jishnu to be roughly on par with Sidewinder, and Rudra's still needs SA/TA to be useful. I'm using my Almace for the first time outside Abyssea, it seems to be doing much more than Vorpal does, add that to the list.

staff and club are toys. gkt gsd plm scy are all meh

Back to my point, coins are going to run out of use at some point, upping drop rate on them to the point where they rain is just going to chase people away from that if thats why they're doing WoE. Right now the big draw for WoE is the fact that the expensive rare scrolls drop from WoE.

[Keinn]

I've done 5 runs in 4 hours.
-1 Coin of Decay
-1 Coin of Glory
-2 Devious Die
I need 30 coins of birth for WoE gun, which at this rate could take 100s of runs. (100+ hours)

I can solo farm Carabosse and CC @ 30-45min per kill including the trigger nm pops when its not overcrowded. (24-60 hours to get all 100 items, and that's solo. Far less with a group.)

Isn't Walk of Echoes weapon supposed to be the easier route that gets you a less good weapon?

[Leonlionheart]

No point in making WoE gun when you can make 85 Armageddon in literally 8 hours.

[Keinn]

Exactly my point. WoE should be easier to make than an Empyrean, not harder.

[Shiyo]

It is easier, you can have downs and be completely retarded with no idea what's going on and get coins. You actually have to SOMEWHAT know what you're doing to get a real emp(and that isn't saying much because cara/cirein/sobek/bukhis/etc are all jokes really..).

It takes much longer because my cat can play inside of WOE and get enough "points" to get coins from chests. If it wasn't so retard friendly I could see the coins raining from the sky, but I'm sure bad bad bad bad bad BAD players will just spam WOE for coins for months for their -1 emps and be happy. The event is well designed now imo, it's for the dumbest people alive.

[Vitus]

After 70+ hours
Birth: 36
Adv.: 25
Glory: 57
Decay: 43
Ruin: 28

It seems #6 and #7 have better coins drop rate than others. The results look good for ppl collecting multiple weapons at the same time. The overall coin drop rate is steady I'd say. I can see the "major draw back" is no short cut in the new system. The playing field is even, everyone has to earn their coins.

[Soranika]

I hope you guys are using the word "easy" very loosely because when it comes down to it, it's not the difficulty as far as effort is concerned, it's what's more time consuming. Right now, making a WoE half emp weapon is more time consuming than than KI and NM farming for pure emp weapons. No one wants to spend 4x as much time making a weaker version of an emp weapon if they really want it.

At this point, until coin drops are fixed, or at least have a store npc and/or a trade npc like for seals and crest, you either go big or not at all on an emp weapon.

[Nynja]

If you want coins, go do 7...plain and simple.

[Rearden]

7 has been the best for me as well...I just did it with my gimp RDM mule, a SCH, a BLM and a BST so its difficulty is...well not there.

[noodles355]

No...Just no

And I've yet to see ANYONE get, or atleast use, a brew in WoE. I've checked my logs for the word "brew", and it hasnt shown up. I got a brew on my second WoE since update (Flux 9). Was on Rdm91/Blm, nukes were doing 5kish I guess.

[HimuraKenshyn]

After 70+ hours
Birth: 36
Adv.: 25
Glory: 57
Decay: 43
Ruin: 28

It seems #6 and #7 have better coins drop rate than others. The results look good for ppl collecting multiple weapons at the same time. The overall coin drop rate is steady I'd say. I can see the "major draw back" is no short cut in the new system. The playing field is even, everyone has to earn their coins.

Dang I need to take a break from doing 11 lol.....

[Economizer]

Right now, making a WoE half emp weapon is more time consuming than than KI and NM farming for pure emp weapons. No one wants to spend 4x as much time making a weaker version of an emp weapon if they really want it.

At this point, until coin drops are fixed, or at least have a store npc and/or a trade npc like for seals and crest, you either go big or not at all on an emp weapon.

This is definitely a big problem, also in conjunction with needing 100 Dice. WoE weapons had a solid chance this update to position for a leg up against Empyreans at 99 cap in terms of ease of obtaining the final weapon, but the large number needed definitely hurt this chance in my opinion. Of course, only the last level jump will tell.

Would be very nice to be able to trade 3:1 now that they don't go to lot pools at all though. Definitely very frustrating to get an item for a weapon you never plan to make at all when you can't even sell it.

[Camate]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

[Rearden]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

We are not asking for a lotting system, I don't believe anyone has even mentioned that. They have mentioned transferring their own loot pool from the chest to the zone loot pool but that is it.

Your/Their justification is that we get our own loot pool and therefor we get a better chance at getting coins. This statement is only, ONLY true for people who went in and tried to solo coins before and it is ONLY true now because people that were leeching before can go in and leech but get their own chest, therefor not affecting the drops of people who contributed to the fight.

The problem is that I could have got way better coins/loot before in a small group by ranking and getting a personal chest.

The other problem is that yes, I do get more coins, but they are coins I do not want, will not want, will never use. I have personally spent 80h (80 runs) doing Walk of Echoes since the last update and I have just about 20 of every coin. I do not want 20 of every coin, I want 30 of one type of coin.

We would prefer a system that allows us to qualify for a number of coins based on our performance and select that coin.

We would prefer a system that allows us to trade coins for coins that we want.

We would prefer a system that allows us to use points like Assaults where we trade points for specific coins that we want.

As of right now I can farm multiple Empyrean weapons faster than I can get coins in Walk of Echoes, if that is the intent then that needs to be stated. I think the general feeling is that Walk of Echoes should be easier as those weapons are by far not as good as their Empyrean counterparts, however right now it is taking more time to complete because of poor coin drop rate/implementation.

Edit: We like the changes to Walk of Echoes itself, but there needs to be a streamlined way to get coins/loot (as these changes could apply to scrolls as well)

[Elexia]

The system is fine honestly, it's the random synthesis materials we only get at times compared to event specific rewards, like I can go to Wajaom and get some logs, I don't do WoE for the same logs.

Like here's how my chest looked last night:

Elm Log
Amber
bsomething Log
Durium Ore

Here's how my brother's looked:

Coin of Birth
clearite
Petrified Log
Gold Ingot

So for me personally, it's the random synthesis materials over event specific rewards, not the way it's distributed. While it's all random, it's depressing doing Flux 11 for example and walking out with nothing more than a few ingots and a cloth lol.

[Dreamin]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

I've already posted on the Test Server Feedback as well as on here before. I think there really are just 2 things that most people want change to the new WoE system:

1. Allow coins to be traded in for a different types. Make it a 3 coins in for 1 coin out of your desired coin type if it means it'll keep everyone happy and some sort of balance. [Or make it X coins in for 1 coin out where X is something within reason though].

2. Give us some sort of currency that is based on the current performance formula that is given out to players when timed out. Right now, there are a hugh amount of people that are doing WoE but most are just concentrating on 7/9/11 (at least on my server). And 36 gets capped faster than you can blink (literally). You cannot get anyone to do any other flux. By giving us some currency even if it means the solo'ers cannot clear bosses, you will give us an ability to earn towards buying coins/dices from an NPC (perhaps the NPC that you trade coins). This way, once all the mad rush dies off when most people got tried of not getting anything that's worth selling those that still need coins/dices will still have a way to progress towards their goals.

[svengalis]

so wait, if you suck more you get better drops?

I thought it was weird that my whm got 2k exp and a coin but my nin got 8k exp and crap drops.

[svengalis]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

Camate a lotting system will not work with 36 people. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE IT BACK TO A LOTTING SYSTEM. Alot of people did not do WoE because of the lotting system in the old way. If they want to add something allow us to trade in coins same as we do now with beastmen seals or tell them to make use of the extra coins somehow.

[Vxsote]

I would prefer that the chests remain as individual rewards, because with an open-to-anyone event, everyone is going to lot on anything of value whether they "need" it or not.

I believe most of the complaints could be satisfied by allowing players to trade coins with each other, even if that meant reducing the total number of coins that appear.

If the devs are not willing to consider that, then I believe that other options previously mentioned, such as allowing a 3-for-1 exchange, would be reasonable.

[SpankWustler]

I'll be really brief:

I'm tired of Gold Ore and Gold Ore is tired of me. I love the current mechanics of Walk of Echoes (particularly compared to how it was before), but the current chests are a reliable source of disappointment, Gold Ore, and little else.

[xbobx]

I think the point system is only way, when people stop doing Woe, which they will, it will become almost impossible to get coins, there has to be some way to get coins by not winning woe.

[Zigou]

A petition should be started , we want our coins, we want our +2 WS, so fade up with 20+ run no one drop ( and yes as smn 12k exp+ ) still not a single coins, so when you want to do a multiple magian trial ... you are f...........


So disappointed, i am logging off and going to play something more fun and with rewards.

[autobot]

Is it me or does SE always seem to get it wrong? We make suggestions when they ask for it then they somehow completely come to an opposite conclusion.

It's not hard to see that, only getting a reward when beating a flux, means that once people stop doing it everyone is boned. Campaign type points is the way to go. Anyone and everyone can benefit from it as someone else mentioned before. Do a flux, get rated for participation, get points, spend points on what you want. Heck since SE wants to give out the new gear in these WoE chests you can still give people chests at the end of the run win or lose based off same participation and even though its filled with that same old random crap at least we get random crap with the ability to purchase coins.

And how SE thinks that getting random crap from chests is a good thing (FoV, GoV, WoE) is beyond me. At least the random crap you can get in abyssea is worth something in most cases even if you are just npcing. Random drops should have the lowest drop rate percentage as an extra, dare i say, bonus.

We traded the ffxi dev team for the ffxiv dev team why?

[Economizer]

First off, PLEASE DO NOT GOT BACK TO A LOT SYSTEM.
We definitely like the individual drops. It just needs minor adjustments.

Unlike some others here, I have to admit that I like the logs and ores (hey, I have crafter friends and Elm Logs are a wondrous thing). It seems that lower tier runs tend to favor coin drops and higher tier are random things with the occasional coin or die. If we are getting random things over scrolls, coins, and dice, it isn't pleasant.

Without a way to know how the drops actually work, us players pretty much only can blame the lack of high profile drops (like dice or coins) on the lower profile drops (ores, logs). If getting stuff that is more of a bonus and not what we are after is truly interfering with drops, this needs to be changed, and if not, it would be nice to hear that it isn't.

Players can be quite superstitious about the way a game works, or else there wouldn't have been questions about stuff like removing gear for a Maat fight, or four leafed buds (and people still believe these things help them). Please clarify this.

The biggest problem with the coin drops currently is that you can get ones for things you totally don't need or want with no way to use them. Some sort of trading system (either with other players, or NPC at the standard 3:1 ratio) would be the solution to this.

The second biggest problem is that effort does not appear linked to rewards. If this isn't true, some reassurance will help, and players will get statistical samples to back this up, eventually.

[Siviard]

I pretty much agree with nearly everyone here, when I say that I am pretty disappointed with the drops in the new WoE.

This is my experience so far. Mind you, I am not that "hardcore" of a player, so I haven't done 100+ runs yet. However, I have done 32 runs (started keeping track of my drops after the first 2 runs because I got nothing but synthesis materials from my first 2 runs) Needless to say, when it comes to getting coins, my luck is HORRIBLE.

Also, FYI I am needing Coin of Advancement for building some Revenant Fists +2. I'm 12/30 on those right now. That number was prior to the update. This is what I've gotten in terms of coins post-update in 32 runs. I won't list the synthesis materials since......it's crap.

Coin of Advancement - 1
Coin of Decay - 2
Coin of Glory - 2
Coin of Ruin - 2
Coin of Birth - 2
Devious Die - 3
Some neck armor, had CHR +6 on it - 1

That's it in 32 total runs. So yeah, it'll take me forever and a day to finish Revenant Fists +2 unless SE introduces some way for me to obtain more Coins of Advancement. I would be more than willing to trade the other coins I have for them to an NPC! I DON'T NEED/WANT THEM! I would be fine with a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio for that "balance" that SE ever so desires!

[Tamoa]

I'll be really brief:

I'm tired of Gold Ore and Gold Ore is tired of me. I love the current mechanics of Walk of Echoes (particularly compared to how it was before), but the current chests are a reliable source of disappointment, Gold Ore, and little else.

I'd rather have gold ores than the bone chips and revival roots I've been getting! :(

[Zaknafein]

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

[Rearden]

We are also not looking for this an update from now in November, December, etc. We're looking for a solution now.

[Zaknafein]

I'd rather have gold ores than the bone chips and revival roots I've been getting! :(

Yes I have to say that a 2 gil, and 49 gil reward or w/e root npc's for is a massive let down after a fast paced action filled flux 11 run.

[Asymptotic]

Keep personal reward chests, add a drop pool to the final clear that anyone can lot on.
Allow only single coins in personal chests. Allow certain items to be only in personal chests and certain items (for example, pouches) to be only in the final clear pool.

/solved

[Economizer]

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

Shemo seems like the type of guy who would run a business like this. He'd even store them for his loyal customers (heh, suckers).

[Sparthos]

Shemo seems like the type of guy who would run a business like this. He'd even store them for his loyal customers (heh, suckers).

Shami (S).

Just so we all know he's been ripping people off since the Crystal War.

[Patrik]

I'm mostly repeating what everyone here is saying. but to Camate: i think there keep being some kind of misunderstanding either from us to you, or you to the dev team. we are NOT (most of us at least) asking to go back to the lot system, which obviously if 36 people are running the same conflux, drops would be miserable overall (assuming 10 item max drop).

all we want is SOME way to not get coins we don't want and get coins we do want. yes the overall coin drops has been increased, BUT since the coins aren't tradable/sellable they aren't being thrown into any kind of circulation. LESS coins are going into existence because people will be trying for one type of coin, and toss all the others.

as far as lotting things, everyone is saying that want the OPTION to kick items from our gold chest that we don't want, into a pool. but obviously that's not the only thing that could be done. you could let us trade/baazar them like devious dice, or do that 3:1 trade that was mentioned. anything that would allow for some conversion/circulation of the coins at this point would make most people happy.

like it was stated, getting the NQ form of emperyn weapons should not take 3 times the time to get the better version

[Keinn]

I think the personal loot pool should be altered. There should be one slot that is 100% 1 coin, and the rest can be the current random. This way players can get 1-3 coins each run.

I also like the ratio coin trade npc idea, or making coins able to trade/bazaar.

[Septimus]

I am going to offer one of my crazy suggestions here.

How about if you get over a certain amount of XP (I haven't done WoE, so I cannot gauge this to give a specific number, I am not sure if 4,000 would be adequate) you are guaranteed one random coin drop. If you get over a certain amount of XP that is higher, you are guaranteed a Silver Mirror or a Devious Die. If you get over a certain amount of XP that is very high you are guaranteed a Heavy Metal Plate.

And of course you can get more than one of any of those items in a pool, but at least people will walk out of there feeling rewarded. And I like the idea of converting the coins. Put Shemo's and Shami's father someplace in the past where he can store coins and exchange them, a 3 : 1 ratio seems fair. Also exchange coins for Devious Die or Silver Mirrors at a higher ratio, maybe 10 : 1. Then Heavy Metal Plates at a higher ratio, perhaps 20 : 1. And maybe some gear or scrolls for higher amounts of coins. Suddenly you have a happy playerbase that feels like it is working towards something instead of throwing out lame crafting materials.

[Elexia]

Yes I have to say that a 2 gil, and 49 gil reward or w/e root npc's for is a massive let down after a fast paced action filled flux 11 run.

"Damn, that run was tough. All of those NQ and HQ Skeleton Samurai's ending with Ganesha himself whom call any undefeated minions to his side to rape the unprepared..it was tough."

WoE Chest: "Rest easy, Heroes! I have your Gold Ore, Oak Log and Rainbow Cloth here!"

"...."

[Camate]

Just to be clear, I understand exactly what you are asking for in terms of a reward system. I will be re-submitting feedback with your suggestions again and see if I can make this a bit clearer for the development team. Give me a bit of time and I will try and get a response.

[Prothscar]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

Could make it the best of both worlds, personal chests with a Union-type chest that spawns at the end of the battle which has a higher chance of having higher grade loot in it, but is also up for lots against other people.

[Ahrana]

I think my biggest problem with the loot is how silly some of it is. I was in a group that completed conflux 10, and I got a two leaf mandragora bud for my trouble, among other minor things. Later I completed conflux 11 and got a bone chip, among other things.

I can understand that everything can't be awesome, but bone chips and mandragora buds simply are not loot worth putting into a end game event.

tldr; I'd like to see them reevaluate the rewards obtainable from WoE, because a lot of it is terrible.

[Mizuharu]

The lotting system from before was crap; PLEASE do not give that back to us. Rather, give a function like in abyssea where you could transfer items from gold chests to the loot pool for lotting. And allow those drops to be free lotted by people in the same zone.

Clear a flux, and you a personal pool.
Take the item(s) you need/want.
If there are extra items left over, you have the choice to add them into a pool for everyone to lot.

That seems perfectly fair to me. Though I assume there'd be problems with what I mentioned?

[Dracaunt]

Why not make it a system similar to Einherjar ichor? I never understood why SE never used that system more. It works really well... earn some form of tokens for killing mobs in WoE (or killing bosses, or clearing fluxes, anything) and exchange those for cards you actually want.


Edit: bad grammar. It's late here. Shhh...

[Darkvalkyr]

Just to be clear, I understand exactly what you are asking for in terms of a reward system. I will be re-submitting feedback with your suggestions again and see if I can make this a bit clearer for the development team. Give me a bit of time and I will try and get a response.

Thanks for taking a lot of the players' rage Camate, and we know it's not your fault. :)

[Seriha]

The current personal chest can remain. As is, I'm like 0/30+ on new scrolls while probably sitting on about 10 misc coins and 11 die. I'm not really in WoE for coins at the moment, anyway.

However...

Like others have noted, implement a currency system like Ichor, Allied Notes, Conquest Points, and so on. Let the amount of this you receive be 1/4 your EXP rate, so a 15000 EXP clear would get you 3750 WoE points. While most people seem to be reporting numbers around half that, you can balance Coin costs from the new related vendor around maybe 3-4 clears, or 5000 WoE points for a coin. On the other hand, SE could also make it pouches for 25000 points, where if you're lucky you could beat that average, or not and get like 3 coins instead of 5 for the same. And since you'd still be getting chest loot, a WoE weapon won't take nearly as long as it does now.

Additionally, all the current equipment found in the various fluxes should be available from this vendor, maybe 100000 apiece. Not all will be worth that, obviously, but it'd help take the sting out of people not doing specific fluxes despite them having something you'd want, and in the rare chance you could do it, the drop wouldn't come anyway.

People won't be grinding WoE forever, so maintaining some means of individual or low-man progress needs to remain, which also means EXP and WoE Points need to be rewarded even if you don't get the clear.

[Siviard]

Ok, run #33 was my best run in terms of getting exp. 11.5k exp, no deaths on my SMN.

This was my loot...

Revival Tree Root
Silver Ore
Wyvern Scales
Unicorn Horn
Phrygian Ore

REALLY? More than 11k exp and this is all I get? Now you can understand why a vast majority of the playerbase is upset, Camate.

[Camate]

Thanks for taking a lot of the players' rage Camate, and we know it's not your fault. :)

Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

[Daniel]

just want to point out that all these little items that you guys don't want help the economy, these little items provide ways for people starting out in new crafts where as before the materials just were not there.

Additionally, if they made the rare drops common, then they would be worthless so why bother.

Finally the coin system does kinda suck, would be nice if you could trade one type of coin for another at a 2 for 1 rate.

[Siviard]

Ok, those of you saying you want some sort of a lot system......just.....NO

You're just inviting douchebags to lot on stuff they don't really need for a quick profit.

The absolute best solution for the coin problem is to introduce a new NPC (I liked the Shami [S] idea) who you can trade unwanted coins you obtain from Walk of Echoes in exchange for coins you need at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio.

I also liked the idea someone mentioned earlier, mentioning at least 1 item in the loot pool should be a coin 100% of the time. If it turns out to be a coin you need, GREAT! Lucky you! But if you get coins you don't need 3 times in a row, then you can simply trade those in for 1 you need. That way, it takes you 3 runs at most to obtain 1 coin you need. Assuming you keep doing WoE continuously and never get a coin you need, it would take 90 Walk of Echoes runs to complete a WoE weapon trial.

[Chilzen]

If the dev team would consider it, would it be reasonable for them to remove the horrible items such as silver ore and whatnot that people usually just leave in the chest, and instead change them into Devious Die?

I made 5 WoE weapons before this update, and after doing runs religiously in my downtime, I've managed to walk away with only 5/500 Die I'd need if I wanted to upgrade them all, let alone come close to upgrading a single one at this rate. I'm not sure exactly what the devs were thinking with the 100 Die requirement as far as balance goes, but with such low drop rates overall, coupled with the fact that on my server the WoE craze has already died down from 100+ people to barely 15 in Flux 9 during US Prime, I'm not really certain how they expect me or other players to reasonably upgrade our weapons any higher. I also do not wish to pay 50k-100k per Die, since that'll basically be 5M-10M at the rate the players are bazaaring them on my server, and most mercenary shells will sell you an entire stage of an Emp Weapon for that much money...

[Zaknafein]

just want to point out that all these little items that you guys don't want help the economy, these little items provide ways for people starting out in new crafts where as before the materials just were not there.
rate.

I think the majority are fine with helping out crafter's. I craft myself, and while none of the WoE drops pertain two my leveled crafts I have happily put the stuff I received on the AH, and made a bit of cash. What people don't want are things like bone chips, and revival roots.

In regards to people asking for coins to be bazaarable I'm not a fan of that. 3:1 ratio will keep people coming to the event. If coins are sold through bazaar's as well as dice the event will fade to low attendance a lot faster imo.

[Alhanelem]

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.
The current system is fine, it's just that it currently seems slower to obtain trial items than it was before. Remember that before, only small groups did Walk of Echoes, thus your odds of getting the coins you wanted were actually the same if not better.

[Alhanelem]

"Damn, that run was tough. All of those NQ and HQ Skeleton Samurai's ending with Ganesha himself whom call any undefeated minions to his side to rape the unprepared..it was tough."

WoE Chest: "Rest easy, Heroes! I have your Gold Ore, Oak Log and Rainbow Cloth here!"

"...."
I think this sums everything up, really. (Sorry for doublepost!)

Really, in the current state of things, Walk of Echoes weapons are slower to aquire than Empyreans. And this really shouldn't be the case.

[Vitus]

Again, if you want coins, try to spam #7 it will help. #8-11 are mostly for a small chance on big money items/scrolls. A fiend and I spam mostly 6 & 7, we don't have very similar results but close enough. Here are the numbers after ~80 runs

Mine:
Birth: 44
Adv. : 36
Glory: 60
Decay: 60
Ruin : 36

Friend:
'' 46
'' 33
'' 36
'' 32
'' 23

Imo the drop rate is steady enough that you will get whatever you want eventually, although not instantly. Don't go back to the old system, it won't work with 36ppl per run.

The friend misses a few runs, that's why she has smaller numbers overall.

[Washburn]

Maybe make a Walk of Echoe's only currency system similar to Dominion Ops, or Grounds of Valor tabs, where you always get an amount of that currency then spend it on the coin you need. It would still keep the challenge of obtaining them, without making the whole server compete with one another.

[Alkimi]

You could just adjust the magian trials themselves so that 30 of any coin can upgrade any weapon. Either that or just get rid of the different types and replace them with a generic one. As a counter to this to stop very quick completion remove the coin pouches entirely.

You're still looking at a good 60 clears on average of the upper tiers to get 30 total coins of differing types, I would say that's fairly reasonable.

[Insaniac]

Always remember that SE is the Wishmaster. Ask to not have to complete with leeches in WoE and they turn us all into leeches. Complain that Relics aren't powerful enough compared to Emps that are easier to get and they make 95 Emps nearly impossible to finish. Tell them you want force pop kings so you don't have to pay HNM shells millions of gil for BB items and gear and you get 5-10mil hq king pops.

[Gokku]

i vote bloodsucker's be added to ffxi so i can have S.T.A.L.K.E.R flashbacks in game.... when is the 4th game comming?!

[Siiri]

Always remember that SE is the Wishmaster. Ask to not have to complete with leeches in WoE and they turn us all into leeches. Complain that Relics aren't powerful enough compared to Emps that are easier to get and they make 95 Emps nearly impossible to finish. Tell them you want force pop kings so you don't have to pay HNM shells millions of gil for BB items and gear and you get 5-10mil hq king pops.

This times 1000. Let's just leave it alone because whatever they come up with will be so much worse.

[SNK]

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

I seriously agree. Sitting on almost 50+ Coins of Ruin is pretty terrible.

[Shellke]

Out of 30 runs i've got 5 coins of each at max and 10 Devious Dies. 0 pouches, not a single one. Have no need for coins at all, but need 500 Dies. I guess i got really lucky, getting 10 in 30 runs, but even then you're looking at 300 hours for just 1 95 level weapon.

Imo, like i've said before, the simpliest and easiest solution that adresses all of the issues with WoE is:
Get rid of single coins in chests, only pouches should drop with the rate singles are dropping now. Or drastically increase the pouches drop rate.
Add an NPC that gives you dies in exchange for any type of coins.

Pros:
There are no coins that you dont need now, you're either getting coins for particular weapon, or for dies. Its balanced, you either get several weapons to 90, or you get one weapon to 95 by trading all other coins for dies.
Getting particular coins should be much easier,with frequent pouches from your chests.
Cons:
SE deeming it too easy for a weapon thats good for only few extra points of damage and WS over instant to get alternatives.

[Ezekieal]

Out of 30 runs i've got 5 coins of each at max and 10 Devious Dies. 0 pouches, not a single one. Have no need for coins at all, but need 500 Dies. I guess i got really lucky, getting 10 in 30 runs, but even then you're looking at 300 hours for just 1 95 level weapon.

Imo, like i've said before, the simpliest and easiest solution that adresses all of the issues with WoE is:
Get rid of single coins in chests, only pouches should drop with the rate singles are dropping now. Or drastically increase the pouches drop rate.
Add an NPC that gives you dies in exchange for any type of coins.

Pros:
There are no coins that you dont need now, you're either getting coins for particular weapon, or for dies. Its balanced, you either get several weapons to 90, or you get one weapon to 95 by trading all other coins for dies.
Getting particular coins should be much easier,with frequent pouches from your chests.
Cons:
SE deeming it too easy for a weapon thats good for only few extra points of damage and WS over instant to get alternatives.

^ This

getting nothing but inventory -5 over and over is disheartening :(

[Prothscar]

The useless synthesis materials that no one needs are kinda annoying and the biggest slap in the face of it all tbh. OH SWEET PETRIFIED LOG AND IRON ORE.

[Asymptotic]

Petrified logs npc decently.

[Xellith]

Just let us trade in coins for a 2:1 ratio and give 1 coin guaranteed per win. Even then when the walk of echos rush wears off then nobody is gonna get anything done in WOE anyways. /shrug.

[brayen]

*the junk(ores gems etc) should just be removed or exchanged for gil OR turned into a point system you can use to buy either new gear or coins and die.

*coins needs to either: made trade-able or increasing the drop rate and/or the above idea about points

*die needs: a stronger base drop rate(across all fluxes if they are indeed not even), add a pouch drop like coins<if there are die pouches already i totally never seen one at all> and/or the above idea about points

*new scroll and gear can remain, even tho the drop rate on those are lower then before if the developers maintain a good amount of players visiting WoE this will remain balanced until the hype dies down again anyways. These items could be added to the above point system as well if you wish.

~ these are the kinds of changes i would like to see. not saying there is a need for all of this but, these are along the lines i see keeping it fair and balanced going form where it is currently.

EDIT: the above post also brings up a good point, soon as the hype dies down, the new chambers will be impossible, this is something SE really needs to consider.

[Eradius]

I smell so much Tanaka in this new update that its hard to breathe.

Please make it clear that the system implemented simply does not reward the players. And as previously stated, we will not be playing WoE forever. Making it harder on people who want rewards from it.

[Mirage]

IMO a WoE weapon should probably not take much longer than 2-3 weeks of regular WoEing, if you do the event roughly every other day or 1-1.5 weeks if you do it every day. It might seem easymode, but really, the weapons are noticably weaker than the real empyrean weapons, and therefore should also take noticable less time to complete.

-edit-
By "WoE weapon", I specifically mean the lv90 version of it.