Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

[brayen]

IMO a WoE weapon should probably not take much longer than 2-3 weeks of regular WoEing, if you do the event roughly every other day or 1-1.5 weeks if you do it every day. It might seem easymode, but really, the weapons are noticably weaker than the real empyrean weapons, and therefore should also take noticable less time to complete.

That is indeed the point, sadly i think they are trying to go the route of make emp so much drastically harder to get to 95 that other trials will pale in comparison. I am not sure but the ugly in this update FAR outshadow the fun/ new stuff they added. 100 die 1500 plates less coins rare drops on scrolls etc etc. i think this is the overall outlook most players are seeing, they turned the reward/effort ratio back from attainable and fun to MASSIVE grinding for tiny gains. Game was holding a friendly casual pace, but they seem to be changing it all back which saddens me a great deal.

[Eradius]

Actually know what. If you have a decent team of people, at this rate- you can get some Empyreans to 85 BEFORE YOU WOULD GET THIRTY COINS....

I'm sorry, something is wrong with that. The LS I'm in has gotten people most 85's in under 3 weeks, and this couple coins a day crud would take that much time or longer. There is no way that is fair and balanced.

[brayen]

Actually know what. If you have a decent team of people, at this rate- you can get some Empyreans to 85 BEFORE YOU WOULD GET THIRTY COINS....

I'm sorry, something is wrong with that. The LS I'm in has gotten people most 85's in under 3 weeks, and this couple coins a day crud would take that much time or longer. There is no way that is fair and balanced.


The problem isn't that it would take that long for the coins, it is that it would take that much longer to get the dice

85 empy is stronger then WoE version AND WoE version doesn't look like it will even gain anything outside a slight base dmg increase, which leaves A LOT to be desired sadly.

[Mirage]

Yeah, there is no real chance that the WoEs will ever get close to the power of empyreans. The only way to make them relevant is to make them faster to make, so that you can casually do it over two weeks without a decent team to help you.

[noodles355]

Easiest solution is to make Coins tradeably like Devious Die. That way Ic an bazaar my 26 coins of ruin for 5k each and buy the 13 Coins of Decay I need at 100k each.

[Kaych]

Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

I just love you! :D

[Rya]

Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

Camate, Camate, you're so great! :D
For improvements that you facilitate! :D
For the diplomacy you demonstrate! :D
And all your responses we eagerly await! :D

[SpankWustler]

With the development team you communicate!
Disappointing responses you promptly translate!
We post a thousand responses filled with ire and hate!
Don't worry, bro, we still think you're great!

[Airget]

Easiest solution is to make Coins tradeably like Devious Die. That way Ic an bazaar my 26 coins of ruin for 5k each and buy the 13 Coins of Decay I need at 100k each.

Agreed, the issue seems to be with obtaining coins. I don't think that you should remove the aspect of random loot even if it is junk. That's just the way the chest roll. As mentioned earlier the 3-5 random loot does provide the Ah with loot that may otherwise be rare and make it easier for people to level certain crafts.

If you remove the chance to obtain 3-5 pieces of loot I think it would discourage people if they go into 10 runs and get nothing out of their personal chest. While sure it may suck to see a bone chip at least you know every time you go in you can get 3-5 items. I really don't think there's any need to change the chest when you consider the balance of each loot acquisition.

If I'm not mistaken you can obtain scrolls from WoE, Voidwatch and the new BCNMS. With WoE for the most part the difficulty of wins is low and it's only a 1hr attempt each time. With Voidwatch you have more control over the quantity/quality of your loot but the difficulty is a tad higher. As for BCNMS I'd say due to the 15 min time restriction those are the most troublesome atm especially when you have the battles where you have to defeat the minions in order to beat the big dude.

But ya for those who want the scrolls I would say try the BCNMs or even voidwatch, with BCNMs you only need 5 other people and I would think the odds of getting a scroll you want would be easier plus it would go faster then a WoE. With WoE you have to wait an hour before doing each one and completion can take anywhere from 15-45 mins to win. With the voidwatch you can attempt it as many times as you'd like as long as you have the stones. With BCNMs due to the time restriction you can get 6 loot pools in an hour and 30 minute time period. As long as you do BCNMs with friends who are trying to get scrolls and help one another I'd say that's the best route to take though if you don't have that many to attempt it with then the best route would be to continue WoE and accept the fact that because of how it's setup you won't always get the best route. It's a luck process as long as you're persistent you'll get what you want but if you want something like scrolls you're prolly better off doing the other two events.

But again in terms of coins the easiest fix for that would be to make them like devious dice and the mirrors. Due to the amount of people doing WoE now the ability to obtain the WoE version of weapons should be a lot easier but I would say it is tougher now. With the amount of runs I've done I don't think I even managed to obtain 10 of one coin type lol. If they simply just made the coins bazarrable I would think that's the simplest solution they could go with rather then revamp the whole loot system since as it stands now I much rather have 3-5 loot even if it is junk then go through a campaign like everyone lots system or only get loot if it's a really rare item.

[Vortex]

However the problem is Coins are for certain weapons....Coin of Ruin is for ....staff...so needless to say you more then likely won't even get anyone to buy those. Maybe add or even out which weapons the coins are for.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I'd say just lower the number of coins required for the specific weapon trials.

[Divinius]

Ancient Currency from Dynamis is bazarrable, ABCs are too, and so are Alexandrites. If WoE coins were as well, that would solve virtually all of the problems, would it not? Sure, some types would be worth more than others, but that's how relic currency works now. The stuff used to upgrade the better weapons is worth more, and vice-versa.

Just make the damn coins NOT EX.

[Vortex]

Ancient Currency from Dynamis is bazarrable, ABCs are too, and so are Alexandrites. If WoE coins were as well, that would solve virtually all of the problems, would it not? Sure, some types would be worth more than others, but that's how relic currency works now. The stuff used to upgrade the better weapons is worth more, and vice-versa.

Just make the damn coins NOT EX.

Well, relic and mythics need other items aside the massive quantity items, opposed to woe weapons needing just 30 coins only and nothing else. and besides empy weapon items also are not sellable. and only need those items.

[Asymptotic]

If you could Bazaar coins there'd be no effort involved in completing a WoE weapon at all...you're getting a whole new Weaponskill dudes and dudettes...even Nyzul basically required you to climb 1-100 to do that.

[Zaknafein]

If you could Bazaar coins there'd be no effort involved in completing a WoE weapon at all...you're getting a whole new Weaponskill dudes and dudettes...even Nyzul basically required you to climb 1-100 to do that.

Than You! My god all you people crying to make coins sold in Bazaar's... Ughhh.. just ugh. Do some work for a decent weapon. 3:1 ratio fixes the problem. All making coins sold in Bazaar's will do is promote people buying their way into the weapon. Think we had enough of that with abyssesa, and relics. Try actually playing the game for a change...

[Lyrminas]

I'm kinda glad they made the weapon I'm going for harder to make, i was going after Tobi +2 but after 50 runs and only getting 15 glory coins. i spent a few hours looking at kannagi nms. Got off my lazy tail and shouted for a while. first 2 days 50 helms, and 42 skins so far, going to try to get 8 tonight after taking care of some stuff irl in a few hours. I don't know about other trials, but kannagi if you really want it, you can get it to 85 in 4 days or so by making pickup parties for +2 items with moderate effort on my part. I wish I had taken some people's advice earlier instead of wasting a greater portion of my time in WoE x.x.

If anyone is interested in how I went about it, for . . .

Briarieus , I would just shout " NM Briarieus Farm + Kill +2 item[ 0/2 ] +2 item [0/2] get WHM BLU BLM/brd THF WAR for those slots ( Can overlook blu if people are ok with that ), oddly enough people came and stayed for hours which helped me get 23 helms the first night, and 27 the other. Another effective thing to add is people wanting SA atma and Zone Boss Clear, have them become a KI holder too, this sped things up greatly.

Sobek, before you start Sobek, try to look at your demographics and high times at guku camp, around 8am PST the japanese majority starts to fade and much less people are camping guku, you can then plan your shout sessions that way with the least amount of opposition. For incentive, you can offer the same, and 2 slots for the ones that only one can drop too, you'd think they wouldn't snag that but people bite that too while balance stone people drown in +2 items xD, some people come for the seals from sirrush and minax and willing to become a KI holder too and not lot the +2's. Alot of people who joined my pickup runs tend to come from FC groups with pops already, or at the very least have guku in their KI list so this helped me get 32 skins the 3rd night XD.

Hope this helps any one looking to do kannagi instead of wasting time in Woe for an Ok... weapon, with the time spent on WoE you can get a vastly greater weapon with a bit more effort instead of zombying things all day long in WoE.

I agree with most of the people who want to make the coins trade able at 2:1 or even 3:1, I don't understand why SE is making it difficult to get a sub-empyrean weapon X.x

[Vitus]

Imo, the current system is fine. The weapons are easier and more accessible than their stronger counterparts. People saying otherwise because they have an army of tools working for them. The current system is easy enough as it is. You can practically get 5-7 weapons in ~80 runs. Don't make any hasty change, I think in a few months, we will see a lot more people get their WoE weapons done.

[svengalis]

I think the majority are fine with helping out crafter's. I craft myself, and while none of the WoE drops pertain two my leveled crafts I have happily put the stuff I received on the AH, and made a bit of cash. What people don't want are things like bone chips, and revival roots.

In regards to people asking for coins to be bazaarable I'm not a fan of that. 3:1 ratio will keep people coming to the event. If coins are sold through bazaar's as well as dice the event will fade to low attendance a lot faster imo.
I feel the same way. Maybe even a 5-1 ratio just to keep people coming back.

[Zagen]

Imo, the current system is fine. The weapons are easier and more accessible than their stronger counterparts. People saying otherwise because they have an army of tools working for them. The current system is easy enough as it is. You can practically get 5-7 weapons in ~80 runs. Don't make any hasty change, I think in a few months, we will see a lot more people get their WoE weapons done.
Are you doing those 80 runs solo? By the way solo means no one else in the zone not you outside of a party.

[Lyrminas]

I think he means, jump into fluxes that have people in it, swing a few times, die, and zombie a few more times, and pop some abilities for brownie points and afk till the end. Win

Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Junk.
Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Iron Ore.
Vitus Obtained a Wad of used Toilet Paper.
Vitus Obtained a Coin of Ruined Afternoon.
Vitus Obtained a Galka Molar.

I just don't understand the people defending the event like they made a logical step forward <_<

they took a few steps forward to get everyone involved and such, great, but then they fell backwards, stumbled, and rolled down back down the hill with these junk drops... The looong wait.... and a time sink only for those people looking to make specific weapons.

[Asymptotic]

Are you doing those 80 runs solo? By the way solo means no one else in the zone not you outside of a party.

The current system is designed so that you won't have to.
If you could just run in and finish your weapon in 3 days, then no one would be doing Walk of Echoes in two months once the price of scrolls crashes.

[Insaniac]

No one will be doing WoE in 3 months because it's easier and less time consuming to make an emp. The La Thien paths were already easier then the WoE versions and now all paths are easier. Any emp can be level 90 in a week without even trying too hard. Finishing a WoE weapon in a week would be pure hell and probably impossible unless you get lucky with the right pouch dropping.

[Zagen]

The current system is designed so that you won't have to.
If you could just run in and finish your weapon in 3 days, then no one would be doing Walk of Echoes in two months once the price of scrolls crashes.
And the point is if you can't actually solo it then it isn't faster than Emp weapons. Considering many of them can actually be soloed depending on your job options.

Now when you're factoring in other people helping you in WoE you have to consider a few things:
1) All Emp NMs drop +2s
2) Most NMs leading to the Emp NM drop Seals
3) All Emp drops are 100% for 1 and decent enough for 2 even without TH.

These first 2 things are reason enough for people to join you in your Emp journey. So in the end when you need more people Emps become much faster than WoE weapons all it takes is willingness to lead.

And that's the point, right now as it stands the only reasons to make a WoE weapon are:
1) You like to torture yourself.
2) You're actually farming WoE for money items.

If these aren't your reasons for getting a WoE weapon then you should be making an Emp because its better and takes less time.

[Sasaraixx]

The second biggest problem is that effort does not appear linked to rewards. If this isn't true, some reassurance will help, and players will get statistical samples to back this up, eventually.

You have to be careful with this. While I do not want someone who contributes very little to the fight to be able to receive the best rewards, the link between "effort" and rewards needs to be viewed more carefully than it has in the past. It is more difficult for some jobs to score as highly as others just based on the nature of the job. And while we know that many people are just out for themselves, we don't want to create a situation where we encourage them to act even more selfishly in order to rank higher.

[xbobx]

I am starting to think it is programmed to know which trials you have open and does not give you those. I am doing bow and h2h trials, those are the two coins I just never get. I keep getting birth and ruin coins with odd glory.
Sometimes I really wonder if they do stuff like that just to drag it out. If I started a staff i would have probable got decays

[Chamaan]

It would be nice if you could do something like that trading boxes for XP thing in Abyssea. Like, if you open your chest at the end and it's full of trash, you can have the option of feeding it to Atomos/trading to Kupofried and he spits you out extra XP, or gives the choice of one of three random coins. That way at least you're guaranteed a coin, with three chances of it being the one you want. That way you're not filling up your inventory with bone chips like a chump, and you've still got a chance at a scroll of Comet all to yourself.

[svengalis]

I smell so much Tanaka in this new update that its hard to breathe.

Please make it clear that the system implemented simply does not reward the players. And as previously stated, we will not be playing WoE forever. Making it harder on people who want rewards from it.

Or maybe they are listening to the few hardcore players complaining about content being to easy. I bet if could take a poll of all the players most would want more abyssea style content where drops are not as random as they use to be pre abyssea.

[Insaniac]

Or maybe they are listening to the few hardcore players complaining about content being to easy. I bet if could take a poll of all the players most would want more abyssea style content where drops are not as random as they use to be pre abyssea.
Grind =/= Difficult. VW has some genuinely difficult content but unfortunately it also has the worst drop system of any event ever probably in any MMO in history. So, it's not only challenging/fun it's also a soul crushing nigh impossible grind to get the gear or HMPs you want from it. WoE is pure mindless chaotic grind. It's neither challenging or fun. Grinds are put in MMOs for the same reason they put nicotine in cigarettes. It makes something of little to no value addictive and keeps your money flowing. It's cheap shoddy game design and I really hoped those days were over for FFXI.

[Vitus]

I think he means, jump into fluxes that have people in it, swing a few times, die, and zombie a few more times, and pop some abilities for brownie points and afk till the end. Win

Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Junk.
Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Iron Ore.
Vitus Obtained a Wad of used Toilet Paper.
Vitus Obtained a Coin of Ruined Afternoon.
Vitus Obtained a Galka Molar.

I just don't understand the people defending the event like they made a logical step forward <_<

they took a few steps forward to get everyone involved and such, great, but then they fell backwards, stumbled, and rolled down back down the hill with these junk drops... The looong wait.... and a time sink only for those people looking to make specific weapons.

Nice story telling... on the contrary, the real story is quite different. Good try bud.
Here is the true version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/img20110925140451.jpg
And this is totally true one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/img20110927182820.jpg/

[Asymptotic]

And the point is if you can't actually solo it then it isn't faster than Emp weapons. Considering many of them can actually be soloed depending on your job options.

Now when you're factoring in other people helping you in WoE you have to consider a few things:
1) All Emp NMs drop +2s
2) Most NMs leading to the Emp NM drop Seals
3) All Emp drops are 100% for 1 and decent enough for 2 even without TH.

These first 2 things are reason enough for people to join you in your Emp journey. So in the end when you need more people Emps become much faster than WoE weapons all it takes is willingness to lead.

And that's the point, right now as it stands the only reasons to make a WoE weapon are:
1) You like to torture yourself.
2) You're actually farming WoE for money items.

If these aren't your reasons for getting a WoE weapon then you should be making an Emp because its better and takes less time.

It's not supposed to take less time, it's supposed to be easier - which it is.
Think OAT mid-damage magian path vs. OA2-4 path.

[Seriha]

Nice story telling... on the contrary, the real story is quite different. Good try bud.
Here is the true version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/img20110925140451.jpg
And this is totally true one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/img20110927182820.jpg/

I'm reminded of the people who went 1/1 on the Kraken Club BC and decide to say it's not rare.

You got lucky, that's it.

Now, join the others trying 8, 9, 10, and 11, do 30+ runs, and see what the real story is. Your results are not typical nor do we have any clue if you'd been sitting on that coin pile pre-patch.

[Kimble]

Seems like, want coins? do 1-7. Want new items spells? do 8-11.

[Zagen]

It's not supposed to take less time, it's supposed to be easier - which it is.
Think OAT mid-damage magian path vs. OA2-4 path.

Except it isn't easier since you can solo many Emps...
Briareus - NIN/DNC
Sobek - SMN
Congrats you just soloed Sword/Katana to 85 without brews.

Fistule - BST
Bukhis - SMN
Congrats you just soloed Axe/Club/Bow

Carabosse - NIN/DNC
Cirein-croin - SCH, BLM, RDM take your pick
Congrats you just soloed Great Katana/Great Sword/Gun

And again if no one is doing WoE you get 0 coins meaning its not easier but impossible.

Edit: I'm not advocating going the solo route for Emps, just pointing out that these can be soloed.

[Vitus]

I'm reminded of the people who went 1/1 on the Kraken Club BC and decide to say it's not rare.

You got lucky, that's it.

Now, join the others trying 8, 9, 10, and 11, do 30+ runs, and see what the real story is. Your results are not typical nor do we have any clue if you'd been sitting on that coin pile pre-patch.

hmmm...ok...
How about someone else then
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/img20110924022557.jpg
And some other people i know got 2 pouches and 2 coins in one chest. Sadly, they don't have any screenshot to please your eyes.

[Asymptotic]

Except it isn't easier since you can solo many Emps...
Briareus - NIN/DNC
Sobek - SMN
Congrats you just soloed Sword/Katana to 85 without brews.

Fistule - BST
Bukhis - SMN
Congrats you just soloed Axe/Club/Bow

Carabosse - NIN/DNC
Cirein-croin - SCH, BLM, RDM take your pick
Congrats you just soloed Great Katana/Great Sword/Gun

And again if no one is doing WoE you get 0 coins meaning its not easier but impossible.

Edit: I'm not advocating going the solo route for Emps, just pointing out that these can be soloed.

And as long as people keep doing WoE, you can go in, autoattack for 2 minutes, die, heal yourself, AFK, and then come back for a chest when the other 30 people inside clear it for you.

[Shiyo]

And as long as people keep doing WoE, you can go in, autoattack for 2 minutes, die, heal yourself, AFK, and then come back for a chest when the other 30 people inside clear it for you.

Yeah WOE is tons easier. It's made for "casuals(translation: complete idiots), so it's something anyone can do. Sure it takes longer, sure they're weaker, but that's intended. I like WOE's design now tbh.

[Babygyrl]

So i tried the new WoE today, and i actually Really like the new set up, my fear is though, whats going to happen to it if people lose interest and zones become unclearable because there isnt alot of people t odo it? and also the reward are kinda poo, but i guess they are better depending on how much you do?

[Keinn]

Nice story telling... on the contrary, the real story is quite different. Good try bud.
Here is the true version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...0925140451.jpg
And this is totally true one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...927182820.jpg/

I've done 30-40 runs now (@7000-11000exp per run) and I have gotten 28 coins total, at 3-8 of each kind. I have a couple LS mates who have been spamming as well, and among all of our combined wins, only one person got a single pouch.
You claim 80 runs/236 coins. Your coin/run ratio seems really lucky, even with that pouch. You sure some of those not from pre-update?

[Elexia]

Anyone who gets anything other than Ores of Glory and Logs of Ruin and Cloth of Advancement post update got lucky and/or didn't get them consistently. Period. End of discussion.

[Dragoy]

Yeah WOE is tons easier. It's made for "casuals(translation: complete idiots), so it's something anyone can do. Sure it takes longer, sure they're weaker, but that's intended. I like WOE's design now tbh.
This just made my night. :]
I would like to thank Shiyo for this insightful comment. It is so considerate and accurate it really leaves nothing for us to do here (I am being a bit sarcastic if one does not notice).

But... you are entitled to your opinion, so I would not judge, and as for the topic itself, I don't really have anything new to say about the current state of Walk of Echoes as I have written those in the other WoE-threads.


Have fun all, and good luck!

[Seriha]

I've done 30-40 runs now (@7000-11000exp per run) and I have gotten 28 coins total, at 3-8 of each kind. I have a couple LS mates who have been spamming as well, and among all of our combined wins, only one person got a single pouch.
You claim 80 runs/236 coins. Your coin/run ratio seems really lucky, even with that pouch. You sure some of those not from pre-update?

I've personally 91 > 95'd two jobs through WoE, have yet to see a pouch or new scroll. I've gotten 4 advancement coins, 2 birth, then 1 of glory, decay, and whatever the other one I'm blanking on. I've had shellmates with me at times, and others they've run on their own. Nobody else has mentioned a pouch and only two people have gotten Thunder V. If I had to estimate the number of combined runs among 10 people in our shell, we're looking at at least 300 loot pools from the personal chests.

Easier should not mean longer, and anyone expressing concern on any kind of item acquisition from WoE once interest wanes has a legitimate worry as long as the only way to get loot is to win. Most everyone trying for scrolls and such now is for themselves, not to AH, and will stop once they get theirs. Seals are finite. VW isn't exactly pick up and play, and equally unreliable on loot.

[Vitus]

I've done 30-40 runs now (@7000-11000exp per run) and I have gotten 28 coins total, at 3-8 of each kind. I have a couple LS mates who have been spamming as well, and among all of our combined wins, only one person got a single pouch.
You claim 80 runs/236 coins. Your coin/run ratio seems really lucky, even with that pouch. You sure some of those not from pre-update?

They are all from post-update. Eyeballing the frequency, i would say 2 coins > 1 coins > nothing > 3 coins> pouch > 4 coins. The drop rate was consistent and steady.

I don't know if there is any correlation b/w xp and coin drop rate, can't speculate on that, but i was aiming for between 4-7k XP. Lower than that you get only 4 items/box. Higher, i tend to have better chance on item/scroll but not much coins. I got quite good many pouch drops, not just the only one i shown in the screenshot. I would say the majority of the coins i got were from pouches, not singles.

And if the amount of people in the zone affects the coins distribution or not, I have no idea so I can't speculate on that either. But at the time, there was only a few people doing 7 while the rest lining up for 8-11. The people doing 7 claimed to have good drop as well.

[Lyrminas]

Quote Originally Posted by Vitus View Post
Nice story telling... on the contrary, the real story is quite different. Good try bud.
Here is the true version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...0925140451.jpg
And this is totally true one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...927182820.jpg/

according to him, he is the scale.

can't wait to see more posts of people post their bags full of coins and bags claiming its 100% drop for them xD or some such nonsense.

[Draylo]

Nothing like a long grueling battle to earn your rightful reward of two logs and a gold ore ^.^

[Rearden]

110 runs, first 40-50 were in flux 9, the rest in flux 7

I got 14 pouches today, and my totals for 110 runs were 45 Ruin, 30 Glory, 35 Decay, 36 Birth, 25 Advancement

I was on a 75skill RDM mule trying to get a fakeUkon, and at one point I got two pouches in one treasure casket. Flux 7 is definitely the way to go, often got multiple coins and very rarely didn't get at least one. I still think it's a dumb system, because by the end of it I was 29/30 and had over 30 for the others. A change would be good since I really can't do anything with the rest of these and don't plan to either.

[Vitus]

according to him, he is the scale.

can't wait to see more posts of people post their bags full of coins and bags claiming its 100% drop for them xD or some such nonsense.

The amount of ignorance is incredible.
I have many more similar screenshots but I dicided not to show. I glad I did that because it seems you can't comprehend the sky is bigger than the top of the well. If you still think the earth is flat, i wish you a happy life.

It is too late, i rather sleep but oh well...

[MDenham]

In all honesty, I'd rather work on getting an OA2 Naboot +3, which I will happily fund from junk drops and overpriced dice. (Spells are getting handed out to people on my LS instead if I don't need them.) When that's done, if people are still doing WoE, I'll work on funding a relic the same way.

[Seriha]

Snips (http://home.comcast.net/~clg2001/FFXI/WoE-Loot.gif) of my loot pools from the 4 runs of 11 I did last night on my DRK, each one breaking 7k EXP at least.

If everyone claiming high coins is only doing 7, then it seems more like there's an issue with the new fluxes and possibly unintended low drop rates not unlike Colorless Souls or other Abyssean NM items. Ideally, coin rates should be uniform, or at the very least, BETTER in the harder fluxes because the mobs are more difficult.

[hiko]

Or maybe they are listening to the few hardcore players complaining about content being to easy. I bet if could take a poll of all the players most would want more abyssea style content where drops are not as random as they use to be pre abyssea.

SE, you need to understand that when we ask harder we dont want easy fight where we need 18 people to raise odd of wanted drop from 0.1% to 5% that any bunch of retard can do as long as there is enough body, but "harder" fight with decent drop rate

[Lyrminas]

@ Vitus - hahaha, you gotta chill out man, learn to spot sarcasm :p. Didn't know you'd take that to heart, my apologies.

Drops then, and now.
Regarding the drops, I just think it's a few steps too many backwards considering it was really easy to make the weapons before for most people who organized 5 and went to do the runs. For those who soloed the fluxes before the update, I don't know about them but you'd gotta be crazy thinking you'd finish 30 in a reasonable time doing that, it is not that hard to make a group of 5 including yourself to go do that xD. Also the quality of drops... honestly why all this garbage? Every developer runs out of ideas but this is just bad lol.

Maybe I'm wrong to assume there are more people that are aiming for specific coins than the idea of " why don't I just make Woe weapons for all jobs after 100 runs " kind of mentality. Just from opinions around people I know, this update to WoE is not popular. To me it got difficult to obtain Tobi, so I went with the real deal and finished 85 in 4 days by leading pick up groups. Of course this probably only applies to kannagi and almace? I hear the other emps are a bit more to handle or just take quite a bit of time to gather the Ki's like Vereth and Glavoid, and we're talking doing this on your own without LS backup.

To get to the point, all I want to say is in my 'limited' experience with the new WoE and what was available to me, the "harder" route was easier than the mediocre route. This makes no sense as far as progression goes in a MMO.

Like previous posters have stated, this benefited the " I have all 95's " people more than the " I just want this, because I don't have time for x " people. I'm willing to wager a cookie that there are much more of the latter than people boasting their "I get frayed pouches every run" people xD.

Content Quality.
Please... lets be honest here, its a zombie fest and a buncha lone wolf pet jobs that carry the fight to the win. Other than the very rare chance of getting spells and people aiming for low-end emperyean weapons, it has no other redeeming qualities, and of course this is my opinion, like everyone else.

sounds like after all the feedback and the response from the devs, they're just gonna strong arm it. gg xD

[HimuraKenshyn]

Looks like different confluxs for sure have different levels of coin drop rates I been sticking mostly to 11 making a ton of gil but hardly any coins. I been spamming woe for the last week love it feels like playing the ffxi version of the lottery but for making weapons this is horrible....

[Kaych]

With the development team you communicate!
Disappointing responses you promptly translate!
We post a thousand responses filled with ire and hate!
Don't worry, bro, we still think you're great!

Omg, fantastic! XD
<3

[scaevola]

Easy solution to drops problem:

Remove singles completelly, only pouches should come from chests, with the same frequency as coins now.
Make an NPC that exchanges any coins for dies.


I....actually really like this idea.

[Felren]

Coin drop in general is plentiful in Coin:Run ratio, but since it gives you random coins and you most likely aren't building five weapons at once, getting every type of coin when they are all ex just plain doesn't make sense.

From the looks of it this is a lackluster attempt at lengthening content, the same exact attempt they're doing with voidwatch.

Gives you random drops, mostly ones you don't need, keeps you there as long as they would if they let you choose your drops and made them a lower drop rate. Lazy Lazy Lazy, if more content was released for 95 they wouldn't have to make this so painful of a grind, even refurbished content from ToAU/CoP/etc. would have been MUCH better than the sad excuse of a time sink VW/WoE is right now.

[Montsegur]

If you're after coins, just spam flux 7, of the about 30 runs I've done, only about twice did I not get a coin. Up to 22 Birth, 28 Decay, 17 Advancement and 9 Glory. If you're after scrolls, spam flux 9 and 11. It's all there is to it really. I already have a faux-fudo, so I can just build Jinshu's now on top of something for Mnk, nin and thf! Not a bad deal.

[svengalis]

If you're after coins, just spam flux 7, of the about 30 runs I've done, only about twice did I not get a coin. Up to 22 Birth, 28 Decay, 17 Advancement and 9 Glory. If you're after scrolls, spam flux 9 and 11. It's all there is to it really. I already have a faux-fudo, so I can just build Jinshu's now on top of something for Mnk, nin and thf! Not a bad deal.

This Guy speaks the truth. Did flux 7 all last night and got coins everytime. In one run I got 9 coin of decay from a pouch :). Good thing I have a mule so I can do flux 11 also while I wait for new day to redo flux 7 which only last 5 mins.

[HimuraKenshyn]

I really am wondering is the old dev team back in control of the scroll drop rate it is pretty horrid. I haven't stiffed a comet or thunder V and I been spamming 9 and 11 for days on 4 accounts >.>. The race to kill in 7 just seems insane if your distracted for a bit the mob can be dead before you can reach the top that just seems to be wrong make it worth the climb at least lol....

[Dennis]

I have not read all the postings, but I think that the coins were divided into different types to accomodate for general drops, before the update where people had to lot on coins. Now that everybody gets their own drops, there is no need for all the different coin types, since there is no competion on drops.
So maybe, just maybe, the coins can be replaced by 1 new type to be used for all weapons. Then there is no need to change the drop rate, and peoples inventory won't be filled with useless items (coins of ruin anyone?).

[Insaniac]

I think they could make a universal coin and up the requirement to 40 or 50 and keep people happy.

[Felren]

Started spamming WoE at 90, now I'm 95, and I'm 8/30 of the coin I need.

Need
a
better
coin
system
badly.

The system is worse than what it was before only because of one thing. All the coins are EX. When you get random coins thrown at you for a win, and you don't need 4/5 of them, and there is NOTHING you can do with them. That is horribly implemented.

Two easy options here are examples of solutions to this horrible system.

1. Take EX off, they're now sellable/tradable

2. Make an NPC to trade coins to like the seal NPC. 3:1 ratio would be completely fine to me, it's a lot better than having 21 of a coin I don't need turned into 7 of what I do need than dropping them to the ground.

[Kimble]

What fluxes were you doing?

[svengalis]

After playing around with woe more I'd say the system is fine as is but it will suck when people stop doing it. Flux 7 for coins, don't do fluxes 9-11 for coins the drop rate for coins is terrible for those fluxes.

[MishaRamuh]

Throwing in my experience with it:
I've gotten quite a bit of coins, but they're all the wrong ones. I've gotten 20 decay, 10 ruin, 8 glory, i don't remember the rest. This is only from doing woe off and on. That's fine I think. The problem is I need advancement, and I've only gotten 1 advancement.

I can't do anything to fix this, thus frustrating gameplay has been be created.

[svengalis]

disregard my post my coins seem to be about evenly dropping for me.

[Zaknafein]

Advancement does seem to be the least dropped coin... Also another way to gaurentee you get coins from 7 is don't go in with 35 other people. Too many people means less chance you will get coins.

Advancement is the coin I have the most of. Also I have received the majority of my coins from 7 which is packed 24 hours a day on Bahamut. So I don't think the # of people is effecting drops in personal chests imo.

[Zagen]

I actually decided to keep track of each run I've done this time around. I did 4 run in 11 the other day and got 2 coins total. I've been spamming 7 since then and have gotten these:

1) 2 coins 1 pouch
2) 1 coin
3) no coins
4) 2 pouches
5) 3 coins
6) 3 coins
7) no coins
8) no coins
9) 3 coins
10) 1 coin
11) no coins
12) 3 coins
13) 2 coins
14) 1 coin 1 pouch
15) no coin

I don't know why I didn't note how many coins in each pouch but discounting those I've gotten 19 coins in 15 runs or 1.2 coins per run. That's a lot lower average than before if we guess the pouches at 3 each bringing the total to 31 coins or 2.06 coins a run.

While this isn't a large enough sample size to be conclusive it feels like i'm getting less coins than I used to get the old way.

Large or small groups hasn't seemed to affect my coin rates much though those pouches were all on runs that took over 10 minutes to clear maybe that's a factor I don't know for sure just a guess at this point. As some of the no or 1 coin runs were with a smaller group.

EXP ranged from 6.1 to 9k.

[Olor]

I did 2 days of this event and I am already 10% towards a couple of weapons. I don't see any problems. The loot system is great, please let it be. My only concern is about whether or not people will be able to do these events once the initial hype dies down.

It might be worthwhile to look at scaling fluxes by the number of participants, or if that would be too complicated, to make some fluxes for smaller participant sizes... like say fluxes 1-3 would have a max of 6 participants 4-8 would have a max of 10, etc. That way, when the event dies down in popularity people can still farm some of the lower ranked fluxes

[Rambus]

Random loot you do NOT want does not make for fun content. This is one of the reasons many people dont do Voidwatch. Spend all your time and energy and get the opposite of what it was you was aiming at.

Just give us Voidwatch Points and Walk of Echo points. Let us trade these in for the items we desire. Stop being so stupid and retarded about all this. Its been said by many people to just instate point systems in place of these stupid random drops.

Making it like assult with points like that seems like a better idea. I agree


I did 2 days of this event and I am already 10% towards a couple of weapons. I don't see any problems. The loot system is great, please let it be. My only concern is about whether or not people will be able to do these events once the initial hype dies down.

It might be worthwhile to look at scaling fluxes by the number of participants, or if that would be too complicated, to make some fluxes for smaller participant sizes... like say fluxes 1-3 would have a max of 6 participants 4-8 would have a max of 10, etc. That way, when the event dies down in popularity people can still farm some of the lower ranked fluxes

that is nice, people that know what to do can farm most real emp weapons faster though.

2 days for 10% just shows how bad it is, lol

[Olor]

Yeah pretty bad to make 3 million gil in 2 days and get 10% towards some weapons I would be happy to have but don't really care about... oh and that wasn't two full days, it was two evenings...

And yeah I guess empys are faster if you play all day and have slaves that are willing to repeatedly farm bosses for you, but I work and I am in a casual shell and I don't dual box, so yeah - love making progress towards weapons without inconveniencing my friends or having to shout in PJ (and take advantage of people)

It took me the same time to get 10% as it took someone in my shell to get 3 chloris buds (which he needed OTHER PEOPLE to help him get). Yeah. WoE is fine. Don't need to be able to finish the weapon in a week, that isn't the point. The point is you don't have to organize other people to get your coins. You can just show up and get a shot at them. And you don't have to camp multiple nms. Or organize anything.

[Neisan_Quetz]

1. Congratulations, you got lucky on drops.

2. How is giving people drops they want taking advantage of them...?

3. Bar tahrongi path (in which case the WoE version doesn't compare to Empyrean minus Maschu and only because Ukko's beats every other WS, and I'd still rate Maschu lower than Conquerer at 95, and probably Brovura too - outside anyway) 10% in 2 days is awfully slow.

[Zagen]

And yeah I guess empys are faster if you play all day and have slaves that are willing to repeatedly farm bosses for you, but I work and I am in a casual shell and I don't dual box, so yeah - love making progress towards weapons without inconveniencing my friends or having to shout in PJ (and take advantage of people).

You have "slaves" of random people working to help you clear WoE zones because you aren't doing it solo... Well you have those "slaves" until WoE's popularity drops.

Seriously people need to stop kidding themselves you aren't truly soloing WoE for coins.

[Olor]

You have "slaves" of random people working to help you clear WoE zones because you aren't doing it solo... Well you have those "slaves" until WoE's popularity drops.

Seriously people need to stop kidding themselves you aren't truly soloing WoE for coins.

No, I am not soloing, but I am also not putting 5 hours into shouting for people stupid enough to do all the work for crap arse seals while I get an empy. Not only that but no one is a slave because EVERYONE in the event gets AN EQUAL CHANCE at THE BEST rewards.

Maybe if I was standing around leeching the event it would be one thing, but as a bst I'm putting gil into making runs a success.





2. How is giving people drops they want taking advantage of them...?



Just because some people are dumb enough (for example) to go on dynamis runs with coins {R} or to heal someone for 5 hours while the leader gets all empy item drops (in return for WHM feet paper or some other crap) doesn't make it less "taking advantage of them."

Seriously, getting 10% done over two evenings is not fast enough? What the heck? So you guys think it makes sense for SE to make an event that people will abandon after a week when they have all their coins? That's ridiculous.

[Zagen]

No, I am not soloing, but I am also not putting 5 hours into shouting for people stupid enough to do all the work for crap arse seals while I get an empy. Not only that but no one is a slave because EVERYONE in the event gets AN EQUAL CHANCE at THE BEST rewards.

Maybe if I was standing around leeching the event it would be one thing, but as a bst I'm putting gil into making runs a success.

I used slaves in quotes because the term isn't accurate by definition in either situation. When shouting for help with Emps those people are going for a chance at +2s thus they are getting what they want just like people helping you clear a WoE zone. When getting help from your friends either they are going for the same chance at +2s or because they are fulfilling their desire to help you. in either case no one is being enslaved now if you asked for help and kept all the drops that would be a different story.

Best rewards is also relative, for example to me helping a friend with Briareus Jewel of Voyage or Stone of Voyage are the best rewards. While my friend sees the helms as the best reward.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just because some people are dumb enough (for example) to go on dynamis runs with coins {R} or to heal someone for 5 hours while the leader gets all empy item drops (in return for WHM feet paper or some other crap) doesn't make it less "taking advantage of them."

Seriously, getting 10% done over two evenings is not fast enough? What the heck? So you guys think it makes sense for SE to make an event that people will abandon after a week when they have all their coins? That's ridiculous.

They want these pieces and are willing to do runs/pay for them and don't want emp items, you are supplying them with these pieces and want the emp items, sounds like a fair deal if you ask me.

For an inferior weapon, yes, 10% in two evenings is slow.

[Habiki]

Making it like assult with points like that seems like a better idea. I agree



that is nice, people that know what to do can farm most real emp weapons faster though.

2 days for 10% just shows how bad it is, lol

We'll an empyrian isn't a true empyrian till 95, and most people are saying atleast 6 months to finish one of those buying everything they can at 400k+ a piece for 1500 pieces, so I'd say 10% complete on a 95 woe version in two evenings is pretty fast to be honest.

[Zagen]

We'll an empyrian isn't a true empyrian till 95, and most people are saying atleast 6 months to finish one of those buying everything they can at 400k+ a piece for 1500 pieces, so I'd say 10% complete on a 95 woe version in two evenings is pretty fast to be honest.

Flawed logic is flawed.

Assuming you have the seals that's 10% to a level 90 weapon. Still need to get 100 of X items for the 95 upgrade. And if you're doing new zones to get the 95 upgrades you're reducing your coin attainment rate as well. Meaning the level 90 version will now take you more time.

Also you are making a level 95 WoE weapon that is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

[CrAZYVIC]

The people already completed a empyreal weapon in hardcore farm sessions, always generalice and think everyone have the same resources they haved.

They think all the people can dual box, they think everyone have a good group of friends.

Here is the example why they say 3 weeks is a lot of time.

Using Carabosse as example.

If you Duo Carabosse with Thf/Nin Whm/Sch. Assuming you can farm 4 pop sets per hour, because this Empyreal is easy.

Assuming you will get 2 Gems per Nm because your thief have TH6.

8 Gems per hour = in 6 hours you get "48" Gems.

Now the Fatty Fish NM Ciren Coin. Same this NM only need 2 key items. So we can pop 4 per hour. This NM Can be soloed of a good blm in 6 - 7 mins.

8 Cirein-croin's Lantern per hour = 6 hours "48" Latern.

In like 12 hours having a WHM for Dual box is posible get a empyreal lv 85.

This is the reason, why this guys say 1 - 2 weeks is a lot of time.

This is the perfect scenario without competition. Lets say in a real scenario with competition 12 hours farming cara and 12 hours for ciren coin. So in 24 hours is posible finish a empyreal lv 85.

The people dont have acess dual box, dont have a group of friends for farm hardcore, in 3 weeks doing WoE at least 6 runs per day. Will have enough coins for complete 4 - 5 WoE weapons. (It takeme have enough coins for complete 5 weapons)

Now for the people will work in WoE Weapon that worth 3 weeks of play WoE?. If you know how play the job, you look information and you know your shit. Yes it worth you will be parsing awesome numbers. If you are lazy player and dont look for info never parsed your events, even with a real empyreal you will still a bad player and even players without a Empyreal will beat you in parses.

If you think "How this shit is posible nuuuuuu". In crour farm parties, i was outparsing Ukkos wars, Kannagi ninjas and others, With thief just playing thief in the right way. So the empyreal not is enough, you need know how play the job, and have your tp gear and ws gear. This Uko war dont even swap gear for ws he had around of 18% haste on gear, the ninja was meleing in full evasion gear with like 8% haste gear ^^, even we say We want cap ruby kill fast -_-

In conclusion a informed and smart player with a empyreal or WoE weapon = God mode
A lazy player with empyreal = A fail "Another empyreal weapon wasted"

[Neisan_Quetz]

All I read was foreveralone.jpeg

Seriously why are you playing if you can't make friends that idk, help you get stuff and you help them get stuff?

4 pop sets per hour? on Carabosse? You're joking, right? Maybe if you're constantly afking in between fights...

You can get both of CC's KI in box, same with Carabosse, and all 3 are easy kills. Heqet isn't heavily camped on my server and that's with Midgard's population added in.

[FrankReynolds]

takes a thief and a white mage like 15 minutes just to kill carbosse some times. You are pulling numbers out of your ass.

[CrAZYVIC]

All I read was foreveralone.jpeg

Seriously why are you playing if you can't make friends that idk, help you get stuff and you help them get stuff?

4 pop sets per hour? on Carabosse? You're joking, right? Maybe if you're constantly afking in between fights...

You can get both of CC's KI in box, same with Carabosse, and all 3 are easy kills. Heqet isn't heavily camped on my server and that's with Midgard's population added in.

The example is for Everyone see how easy is make a Empyreal in 12 hours can be completed this one, with only 2 people. Not with a group. But again the people always assume, everyone can dual box and everyone will have the perfect scenario always. Not everyone will have acess this kind of luxury things, this is the reason for me and lot of people is farming the coins for get WoE.

And carabosse with a Decent thief not a full evasion thief. Can destroy Carabosse with this. Buying this items by bastion prefect

Fool's Drink
Monarch's Drink
Berserker's Tonic

Using atmas RR/SS/Apoc. With 2 trial magians evasion daggers.

Just mele it until 50% after benediction. Use stawart tonic and Monarch's Drink
Berserker's Tonic. In about 8 - 10 mins "I can kill cara on thief doing this" But sadly my friend WHM, Can only help me the weekends with this, so maybe in 12 - 18 weeks i will be finishing my Empyreal weapon. And sadly i dont have access dual box.

[Habiki]

Flawed logic is flawed.

Assuming you have the seals that's 10% to a level 90 weapon. Still need to get 100 of X items for the 95 upgrade. And if you're doing new zones to get the 95 upgrades you're reducing your coin attainment rate as well. Meaning the level 90 version will now take you more time.

Also you are making a level 95 WoE weapon that is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

My point was compared to the empyrian path the WoE's path is a joke 1500 vs 100 how is it so slow for everyone I don't see the reason to complain you get a nice chuck of money and at least 1 die almost every run.

At most the WoE version will take 4 weeks with drop rates doing it 1 hr a day without buying any, it could be done in 25 hrs straight, vs. 6 months if supply stays high enough to support people buying plates.

I'm talking about lvl 95 upgrades not the upgrades as a whole so I fail to see how it's flawed logic thinking 10% in 2 evenings for the WoE's version isn't bad for a casual player they didn't specify if they we're taling about coins or dies either, the casual player won't ever see a 95 empyrian unless the plates required or price drop tremendously.

[Zagen]

My point was compared to the empyrian path the WoE's path is a joke 1500 vs 100 how is it so slow for everyone I don't see the reason to complain you get a nice chuck of money and at least 1 die almost every run.

At most the WoE version will take 4 weeks with drop rates doing it 1 hr a day without buying any, it could be done in 25 hrs straight, vs. 6 months if supply stays high enough to support people buying plates.

I'm talking about lvl 95 upgrades not the upgrades as a whole so I fail to see how it's flawed logic thinking 10% in 2 evenings for the WoE's version isn't bad for a casual player they didn't specify if they we're taling about coins or dies either, the casual player won't ever see a 95 empyrian unless the plates required or price drop tremendously.

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

[Olor]

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

Man, you really don't get it. Just because you have a shell with people willing to drop everything to get you your empy, or because you have access to dual boxing, or are willing to shout for hours for enough noobs willing to do your bidding, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat.

Seriously.

Empy is faster if you have the resources. Yes. We all agree. So frigging what? WoE weapon is for casual players like me, who just want to show up, and get a shot at the items they want. If you think empy is so much better, why you complaining about WoE weapon anyway? Just go get your empy in 25 hours or w/e and stop complaining about how long it takes to get a weapon you think sucks anyway.

Also, WoE is WAY more fun than spamming NMs in abyssea (for me) and I play games to have fun, not to wave my e-peen in people's faces.

I play for like 2 hours many nights, not more, I don't want to spend 1.45 hours of that shouting for fools in PJ willing to do all the work for my emp.

[Zagen]

Man, you really don't get it. Just because you have a shell with people willing to drop everything to get you your empy, or because you have access to dual boxing, or are willing to shout for hours for enough noobs willing to do your bidding, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat.

You still don't get the point without people in WoE you aren't able to get jack so when they leave to get a WoE weapon you have to shout or ask your LS.

You're not in the same boat because you choose not to be, that's not anyone else's fault but yours.



Empy is faster if you have the resources. Yes. We all agree. So frigging what? WoE weapon is for casual players like me, who just want to show up, and get a shot at the items they want. If you think empy is so much better, why you complaining about WoE weapon anyway? Just go get your empy in 25 hours or w/e and stop complaining about how long it takes to get a weapon you think sucks anyway.

WoE weapons without people is impossible for casual players. When you get people together for it, it should be faster than getting those people together for Emps instead.

Why do I care about WoE weapons being slower? Simply because casual players should have a chance at a fun toy even if it is inferior to the alternative. That being said I believe it should require less effort to get the WoE version than the Emp version because it is inferior even at its current highest upgraded state compared to the 85 stage of an Emp.

When people stop farming WoE (already happening) you and all casual players get screwed. And WoE goes back to the way it was, empty except for people shouting for SMN/BST groups. If you have to shout what's the point in shouting for WoE when shouting for Emp gets you a better weapon and almost always in less time than you'd take to make a WoE weapon?


I play for like 2 hours many nights, not more, I don't want to spend 1.45 hours of that shouting for fools in PJ willing to do all the work for my emp.
Find a friend who plays the same time frame as you and get an Emp without shouting, even duoing I'll bet you get an Emp you want done before a WoE weapon you want done. NIN + WHM. For example my friend and I would split up Briareus farming over 2 nights (1 for KIs the other for NM fights) many times because we didn't have much time to play.

[Olor]

You still don't get the point without people in WoE you aren't able to get jack so when they leave to get a WoE weapon you have to shout or ask your LS.


There ARE people in WoE though - that's where you're missing the point man. If they made it so you got all your coin drops in 1 week of 2 runs a night, though, there wouldn't be anyone there right away though.

I think they ought to retune some of the fluxes - make them max 6 people, max 10 people etc so that when the event gets less popular it will still be a causal event - but increasing coin drops would just make it so no one was doing it AT THIS MOMENT because they would have all gotten their weapon in two days of spamming.

I don't see how arguing for more coin drops will extend the life of this event.

[Zagen]

There ARE people in WoE though - that's where you're missing the point man. If they made it so you got all your coin drops in 1 week of 2 runs a night, though, there wouldn't be anyone there right away though.

On Bismarck it already has dead times.


I don't see how arguing for more coin drops will extend the life of this event.

The coins have nothing to do with the life of the event >.> the money drops do. If the coins were the reason to do WoE it wouldn't have been dead during an era where coins were easier to get when discounting leechers.

[svengalis]

I have to agree with everything olor is saying. I don't want to get people to farm a empyrean weapon for me. I can farm 4-5 woe faster then I could a empyrean. I am already done with one of my woe after only 2 weeks of doing it and I am 2/3 done with 2 other weapons and 1/3 done with 2 other weapons. Another week of spamming woe and I should have FIVE weapons done. I'd like to see someone farm 5 empyrean weapons for themselves in 3 weeks worth of time. And to people saying woe are gimped or LOL at least I can get my woe to 95 without spending tons of Gil and using people.

[HimuraKenshyn]

I can for sure see a time when WOE becomes a ghost town again it already has started to dry up at certain times of the day on shiva. The only conflux that can be consistently counted on during my prime time is #7. The new win it for all or lose and get nothing is simply a horrible horrible idea for this event.....

[Zagen]

I have to agree with everything olor is saying. I don't want to get people to farm a empyrean weapon for me. I can farm 4-5 woe faster then I could a empyrean. I am already done with one of my woe after only 2 weeks of doing it and I am 2/3 done with 2 other weapons and 1/3 done with 2 other weapons. Another week of spamming woe and I should have FIVE weapons done. I'd like to see someone farm 5 empyrean weapons for themselves in 3 weeks worth of time. And to people saying woe are gimped or LOL at least I can get my woe to 95 without spending tons of Gil and using people.

I agree with the concept of aiming for multiples at once because of the way WoE is designed but that's the only way it is more beneficial than farming Emp weapons. Again while people are still spamming it.

LOL all you want with your 95 weapon, it doesn't change the fact that the level 85 Emp version is better even at 10 levels below it.

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

Edit: I'm making WoE dagger because I got enough coins while going to WoE for the fun of it but I don't kid myself in thinking that it will compare to Twashtar 85 ever. As to why I'm not making the Emp version, well that's because I would rather spend the shells/scales on Ukonvasara.

[Olor]

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...


It isn't using people when everyone gets the exact same benefits, when people can leave or join whenever they want without explaining themselves to anyone, and when you don't even have to talk to each other to mutually benefit.

With Empy Farming the rewards are asymmetrical - with WoE everyone can build a weapon/farm scrolls/etc at the same time. Empy farming is a zero sum game. WoE is mutualism at work.

[FrankReynolds]

So next time I'm doing sobek and one of the other ninjas I know needs the +2 items from him, I'll be sure and tell him "Sorry, your my friend. I wouldn't want to use you like that.".

[Zagen]

It isn't using people when everyone gets the exact same benefits, when people can leave or join whenever they want without explaining themselves to anyone, and when you don't even have to talk to each other to mutually benefit.

With Empy Farming the rewards are asymmetrical - with WoE everyone can build a weapon/farm scrolls/etc at the same time. Empy farming is a zero sum game. WoE is mutualism at work.

Everyone uses everyone else. Just because you perceived to be getting a mutual benefit in WoE vs. Emp runs doesn't change the fact you're being used and the others there are being used.

Emp rewards (seals/+2s/items) are asymmetrical because you perceive them to be so, not everyone feels that way. And again if a person agrees that a chance at X item is enough for their help they aren't being used anymore than they're using the leader who's getting Emp items and is organizing the run.

At the point the agreement is made then the rewards are just as equal as a chance at scrolls, your own coins, etc. You don't seem to get this.

[svengalis]

I agree with the concept of aiming for multiples at once because of the way WoE is designed but that's the only way it is more beneficial than farming Emp weapons. Again while people are still spamming it.

LOL all you want with your 95 weapon, it doesn't change the fact that the level 85 Emp version is better even at 10 levels below it.

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

Edit: I'm making WoE dagger because I got enough coins while going to WoE for the fun of it but I don't kid myself in thinking that it will compare to Twashtar 85 ever. As to why I'm not making the Emp version, well that's because I would rather spend the shells/scales on Ukonvasara.

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will. I don't even team up with people SMN ftw. Also even if I had the resources I wouldn't waste my time farming a emp dagger because the classes that use it are not that good at dd sorry guys but it's true :(. Its like farming an empyrean for whm. And yeah I am only doing dagger +3 because I have the coins. I might even do Tobi +3 to even though I have a Kannagi because it seems much more realistic that I can that to its 99 version with half the effort.

[svengalis]

I can for sure see a time when WOE becomes a ghost town again it already has started to dry up at certain times of the day on shiva. The only conflux that can be consistently counted on during my prime time is #7. The new win it for all or lose and get nothing is simply a horrible horrible idea for this event.....

Yeah that is going to be a problem. Same is happening on Phoenix. Maybe 99 will add use to the extra coins and/or give people reason to continue woe I don't know.

[Zagen]

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will.

So you're telling me that if those people weren't there you'd still get items bro? You're using them just as much as they're using you. While they may be able to participate as individuals they still need to function as a group to succeed.

[Afania]

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

[Kristal]

I got a Verethragna(85) and a Revenant Fists +2 (finished before starting the Verethragna).. why would I even want to do Walk of Echoes to upgrade the Revenant Fists to +3?

Only reason I didn't toss the Rev Fists yet is because it might be needed for final Verethragna 99/100... I got a suspicion final trial is going to be:
'To upgrade Verethragna(95), bring me a Revenant Fists +3, Ursine Claws +3 and Taipan Fangs +3'

Still want some spells from #8-#11 and Devious Dice for Badelaire +2, but if that takes too much effort I'll just do Almace instead.

Morale of the story: do WoE now, or pray SE adds more solid incentives to do WoE later.

[Zagen]

Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

A couple things for you to consider/think about:

Look into how exactly damage works compared to occasionally deals double damage. You'll see that a bit of extra base damage won't make up for doing double the damage with Aftermath active.

I don't know how bad it is on your server but Guku was bot camped almost 24/7 on my server which made it faster to gold box farm. That is done best by BLU Charged Whisker, however also works with WAR Fell Cleave, or Dagger Aeolian Edge spam. WAR option is the only one that can't be soloed, this of course depends on your job options available. But it opens up a few things you can help your friends/ls level sub/new jobs or sell spots and make gil leeching random people.

Apademak is one of the harder Aby NMs but it can be done with or without brews. Also what a lot of people were doing was locking Horns and giving away all other items for someone to brew several pops.

I'm not saying you should or have to go this route (AoE farming KIs for Sobek or shouting for brewers on Apa), I'm just pointing out there are options that have worked in the past allowing you to get up to level 90 version of an Emp.

Again reinforcing the suggestion of look into how melee damage works (Base DMG and Occasionally Deals Double Damage) because unless WoE weapons are given something more they won't beat out Emp 85 with just base damage boost.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if level 99 WoE got the current aftermath and 99 Emps got 100% proc rate and the damage increased by after math level instead of activation rate, but that sounds overpowered lol.

[Montsegur]

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

Are WoE weapons inferior to Emps, of course! Are WoE weapons better than most of the other stuff out there? Yup. Will WoE weapons be easier to upgrade all the way to 99, probably.

I know it may seem like EVERYONE has an Emp weapon, but really, it's still the minority. I'm also willing to bet most people that have them now were the people who were hardcore back in the day and who had all the nice gear. Even WoE weapons, they're not THAT common, I still see a tons of jobs ws'ing away with their Blade: Jin's and Tachi: Gekko's, and Asectic's Fury. I get that this game has become min-maxing stats for a lot of people, but for those 50 that love to min-max stuff, there's probably 500 who don't give two shits.

So if you really want to be the best, go for the Emp, if you're like me and content with doing pretty good all around, go for WoE. I have a WoE Fudo GK, and I can assure you I out parse most of the sams out there, minus the Masamune ones. Even then, some are so poorly geared I still out parse them. Fact is too, the more I do WoE Flux 7, the easier it is to do a WoE weapon, BIG time, 52 decay, 33 Advancement, 23 Glory, 35 Birth and god knows how many Ruins. Once I'm out of here I can have Fudo, Jinshu, Blade: Hi, Rudra, and R. Fists. That's pretty friggen nuts, especially since stuff like Jinshu, Fudo do extrememly well without aftermath.

[Zagen]

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

The thing is it requires more resources to complete a WoE weapon. Emps can be soloed WoE weapons can't. When WoE dies down again (already started on some servers) there will be no point in going for a WoE weapon because it takes more effort than an Emp.

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

A lot of the people on here think WoE is easier because people are spamming the event, and that is true it is easier because when people spam the event you don't have worry about leading a group, you don't have to worry about being good at whatever job you break as long as you do enough to rank.

People are arguing that WoE is casual friendly when in reality it is only casual friendly when people are spamming it. When people stop randomly spamming WoE it is no longer casual friendly.

What happens when the new factor wears off? What happens when a truly casual gamer who's playing 10 hours a week happens to get screwed because WoE is dead during the time they can get on? Where is their easy, casual friendly alternative to an Emp?

[Olor]

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?


How is it more effort to simply show up than it is to shout for people on specific jobs, and compete with other groups for NMs?

Yes, we all agree SE will need to work to ensure there are enough rewards in WoE for people to want to continue doing it, but saying it is more effort to complete one is a lie.

If you truly cared about the poor poor casuals who should be making an empy instead of a WoE weapon you would support my suggestion thread. Retuning some of the fluxes for fewer people should ensure that even when some of the hype dies down people can farm their coins.

[Zagen]

How is it more effort to simply show up than it is to shout for people on specific jobs, and compete with other groups for NMs?

Yes, we all agree SE will need to work to ensure there are enough rewards in WoE for people to want to continue doing it, but saying it is more effort to complete one is a lie..

How many people do you need minimum to clear #7? 2 SMNs.

How many people do you need minimum to farm Emps? 1 player, job varies depending on path.

See how its harder?

You can simply show up because people are doing it, what happens when they stop?


If you truly cared about the poor poor casuals who should be making an empy instead of a WoE weapon you would support my suggestion thread. Retuning some of the fluxes for fewer people should ensure that even when some of the hype dies down people can farm their coins.

I do care. Well I should say I care about the ones who aren't lazy.

I support random players pursuing an Emp by going on a job they need in exchange for a chance at a +2 item I want.

In the past I even occasionally supported random players pursuing WoE weapons by joining them because WoE is fun at times.

I support the players in my LS by giving them full pop sets for the Emp item they want in exchange for +2 items I want. In cases where nothing I want drops I give them all the drops or open them up to others helping.

Reducing the amount required to clear certain zones also means reducing the rewards given, because that's how SE does it so why would I suggest that? After all my stance is WoE weapons should be easier which means increased drop rate, a universal coin, or a 3:1 conversion option. Because all of those options actually make the event easier without gimping anything.

[Montsegur]

The thing is it requires more resources to complete a WoE weapon. Emps can be soloed WoE weapons can't. When WoE dies down again (already started on some servers) there will be no point in going for a WoE weapon because it takes more effort than an Emp.

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

A lot of the people on here think WoE is easier because people are spamming the event, and that is true it is easier because when people spam the event you don't have worry about leading a group, you don't have to worry about being good at whatever job you break as long as you do enough to rank.

People are arguing that WoE is casual friendly when in reality it is only casual friendly when people are spamming it. When people stop randomly spamming WoE it is no longer casual friendly.

What happens when the new factor wears off? What happens when a truly casual gamer who's playing 10 hours a week happens to get screwed because WoE is dead during the time they can get on? Where is their easy, casual friendly alternative to an Emp?

I get where you're coming from, but WoE has always been popular on JP prime time, I got my Fudo done way back before all this started, it wasn't that bad. The jp's would get on around 8pm EST and usually go until 5-6am, especially during weekends. So that's what, 5pm to 2am PST? I know Euro's get the shaft, but I get the feeling they often get it, so I kind of ignore them (though I shouldn't). For flux 7, you really only need 5-6 people tops to finish it and I'm almost positive a well geared melee + whm could duo it. This is really the only flux of concern as it's the one that drops the most coins if we're talking about weapons.

If the JP have been at this for over a year, I can't see them just stopping all of a sudden, I think they'll always be enough people around during peak times to get things done. Also, if SE is smart (HUGE if), they'll keep adding scrolls all the way through 99 here that drop in WoE and nowhere else but WoE. Then, there's 99, flux 7, it'll be a joke. What's dying to some people too? Yes, there's not 150 people like the first few nights, but I'm usually competing to get into flux 7 and sometimes don't even get in. My suggestion if you feel it's slowing down, come out on weekends, they'll be plenty of people 24/7 from Friday-Sunday.

If people were spamming this shit before, they'll keep spamming it. Now that it's known that 7 is the coin giver, and that's a joke to win, I think it'll keep up. I still think for me, this is easier then an Emp weapon. I guess we'll just have to wait and see a few months down the road how dead WoE is.

[Zagen]

Montsegur that must be your server. Before the update on Bismarck during 8am-1/2am PST (during the week or weekend, though I didn't go/check everyday nonstop) there would be one party of 5 JP SMNs that would do WoE, same 5 people doing #5 or #7 if #5 was taken which neither has/had money drops so they must have been spamming for coins.

When a "leecher" entered with them they would all exit and wait until the next game day. If the leecher didn't go away they would just leave.

Other than that group and 1-2 English speaking shouters who went once in a while again as a pet group spamming #5 for 1-3 runs.

Other than those 2-3 groups all there ever was were people soloing crabs/antlions.

As to competing for 7 I never had that issue, I did with 9 and 11 though those used to fill up to cap as soon as the day changed.

[svengalis]

So next time I'm doing sobek and one of the other ninjas I know needs the +2 items from him, I'll be sure and tell him "Sorry, your my friend. I wouldn't want to use you like that.".

And I am sure it will take him 25+ kills to get those 9 ardor coins he needs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Because he a) only needs coins or b) if he's your friend why wouldn't he help you or c) if one ninja you've shouted for gets his stuff and leaves, find another who still needs drops?

[Olor]

c) if one ninja you've shouted for gets his stuff and leaves, find another who still needs drops?

Yes, because shouting for a random (who may or may not be a complete idiot) is a lot easier than just showing up to WoE on BST and joining the other people who are kicking butt.

[Neisan_Quetz]

See Zagen's posts because you missed them. I'm sorry finding people to help you in a MMO is so hard for you. At least you leveled the right job to solo the game with though.

[Karbuncle]

Yes, because shouting for a random (who may or may not be a complete idiot) is a lot easier than just showing up to WoE on BST and joining the other people who are kicking butt.

Uh


Yah, Because going to Walk of Echoes with Random people (Who may or may not even be there, and who may or may not be complete idiots) is so much better than taking friends, or finding help to kill Idiot proof NMs

Really, It seems like (in both sides of the arguments) you guys are just wildly exaggerating the negatives and positives of each instance.

Though i firmly believe Walk of Echoes sucks, when it comes to "Coins". Especially if you're trying to do just 1 Weapon. You have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the coin you want, If you even get a coin. Where as with Empyreans, You kill NM, You get at least 1 of the item you want.

Walk of Echoes is more of a dumb luck system, Empyrean farming is a tangible goal, where you can actually make a Min/Max Timeline of how long/how many kills it should take. You cannot do this with WoE as you have no guaranteed drop.

Both sides have positives and negatives, however, Empyreans are far easier than people make them seem, if you're doing all the effort of those trials, Go big or go home, You may as well get the real weapon, even if you just take it to 85, its better than the current 95 WoE weapons, and will likely still be better than their 99 WoE versions.

[Septimus]

Uh



Really, It seems like (in both sides of the arguments) you guys are just wildly exaggerating the negatives and positives of each instance.

Though i firmly believe Walk of Echoes sucks, when it comes to "Coins". Especially if you're trying to do just 1 Weapon. You have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the coin you want, If you even get a coin. Where as with Empyreans, You kill NM, You get at least 1 of the item you want.

Walk of Echoes is more of a dumb luck system, Empyrean farming is a tangible goal, where you can actually make a Min/Max Timeline of how long/how many kills it should take. You cannot do this with WoE as you have no guaranteed drop.

Both sides have positives and negatives, however, Empyreans are far easier than people make them seem, if you're doing all the effort of those trials, Go big or go home, You may as well get the real weapon, even if you just take it to 85, its better than the current 95 WoE weapons, and will likely still be better than their 99 WoE versions.

It depends on the weapon and your server. La Theine weapons are easy as hell, as is staff. But on Bahamut you are going to have a hell of a time trying to get Fistule or anything in Tahrongi. Fistule is constantly camped, as are the free spawn KI NMs in Tahrongi. And since Tahrongi as so many KIs, good luck getting the ones you want in a cleave. I want to punch a puppy every time I go into Tahrongi and we still have 1 and a half glavoid weapons to do.

And people ask me why I don't want an Empyrean. >_>

[svengalis]

Yes, because shouting for a random (who may or may not be a complete idiot) is a lot easier than just showing up to WoE on BST and joining the other people who are kicking butt.

That's why I don't want to farm anymore Empyreans. I get so pissed off with the scrubs from pugs LOL.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Re: Septimus

I still consider non Tahrongi empyreans less effort than those 8 staves you did.

[Olor]

Uh

Though i firmly believe Walk of Echoes sucks, when it comes to "Coins". Especially if you're trying to do just 1 Weapon. You have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the coin you want, If you even get a coin. Where as with Empyreans, You kill NM, You get at least 1 of the item you want.

Walk of Echoes is more of a dumb luck system, Empyrean farming is a tangible goal, where you can actually make a Min/Max Timeline of how long/how many kills it should take. You cannot do this with WoE as you have no guaranteed drop.


I guess since I really don't give a damn about making the weapon but I am making progress anyway, it seems better.

My shell has like 6-9 people on at a time, 3 of those not even at level cap at any given time. And then half of the rest who are at cap are too busy helping themselves to work on other people's crap. And despite what people say about these weapons being soloable, I just don't see myself taking down a lot of them given I don't already have the best gear etc. I mean maybe when you're a nin with Kannagi working on another weapon they are "soloable" with a D-boxed whm... but yeah, doesn't seem realistic for an average, casual player.

It's actually kind of frustrating to see people who have a lot of resources talk about how easy it is to get an empyrean. It isn't that easy for an average player in a small shell with other casual players.

[Zagen]

I guess since I really don't give a damn about making the weapon but I am making progress anyway, it seems better.

My shell has like 6-9 people on at a time, 3 of those not even at level cap at any given time. And then half of the rest who are at cap are too busy helping themselves to work on other people's crap. And despite what people say about these weapons being soloable, I just don't see myself taking down a lot of them given I don't already have the best gear etc. I mean maybe when you're a nin with Kannagi working on another weapon they are "soloable" with a D-boxed whm... but yeah, doesn't seem realistic for an average, casual player.

It's actually kind of frustrating to see people who have a lot of resources talk about how easy it is to get an empyrean. It isn't that easy for an average player in a small shell with other casual players.

Why would you stay in a LS like that?

You're BST... You have a pet that can attain I believe its -87.5% PDT(I think you can get more but that's the new cap) and at least -60%MDT... If you can't see how Emp NMs are soloable by your job then I don't know.

Edit: The only NM while going for level 85 Emps I can think of that BST could have issues with is Bukhis if it spams Apocalyptic Ray

[Olor]

Get the part where I said I don't have the best gear yet?

Also I stay in the shell because they are my friends, and to me, friends are more important than digital gear. They have helped me tons in the past (and have gotten me a lot of nice stuff, atheling mantle, pony ring) but I am not about to ask them to dedicate their limited playtime to getting ME a weapon. Besides, if I ever do try to convince them to help me with anything it will definitely be the empy harp.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Ever tried talking it out? No less than 2 of my friends have NP with it since we reached an agreement about working on improving our chars as a group, the rest have other commitments and I respect that. If they also have the desire to attain an Emp or other weapons/armor there is no reason you can't help each other and come to an agreement about it.

[Zagen]

Get the part where I said I don't have the best gear yet?

Also I stay in the shell because they are my friends, and to me, friends are more important than digital gear. They have helped me tons in the past (and have gotten me a lot of nice stuff, atheling mantle, pony ring) but I am not about to ask them to dedicate their limited playtime to getting ME a weapon. Besides, if I ever do try to convince them to help me with anything it will definitely be the empy harp.

You can solo -PDT Axes. You can solo the quests for Ducal Guard Atma. You can solo Sirrush for leg seals, also you can just ask groups farming it for the KI for the seals.

The only thing you need a group for is some of the fights to get Anwig Salade.

Sounds to me like you prefer to make excuses.

I don't buy them being "friends", my LS works in smaller groups within the LS (keep in mind we're like 10-15 total), Rorien and I do 90% of the stuff we want as a duo with mules available as needed, the rest of the group does what they want. The moment either group needs/wants help or has something the other group benefits from we join up and do it together. To me that's what friends are, to me that's what a good LS should be. But to each their own I guess if you see them as friends sucks you don't have better friends.

Edit: To clarify you can do the solos I mentioned with AH gear.

[Septimus]

Re: Septimus

I still consider non Tahrongi empyreans less effort than those 8 staves you did.

If it weren't for the fact that I soloed a good 75% of the summoning staves I would agree. (I am 4 of 8 on damage staves for BLM now and working on the rest. I really hate myself...) When you have to get other people involved with farming, I consider that a huge increase in effort. With the elemental staves, it is something that you can do by yourself; you don't need to waste other people's time to help you hold KIs or proc for something that doesn't benefit them.

But the problem is that the only good weapon for my jobs (Ukonvasara) is a Tahrongi weapon. (And I doubt that Square wants to be blamed for any puppy punching incidents.) The only weapon that I would really want (Farsha) is terrible, the single worst Empyrean Weapon, and one of the hardest to get because of the constant competition for Fistule. So yeah, this is why I will make do with out an Empyrean.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Agreed, my job list is pretty terrible myself, my best emp is Ukon and we eventually decided we weren't going to grind through it (plus I had rl commitment to military) so it took much longer including time I was away from game. Whm emp is a joke to me and the only other one I need is sword which is on the back burner due to staves. I really do think I could have finished sword if i spent the time on it over staves.

[Olor]

I have the legs, have -8% pet pdt axes, have done part of ducal guard stuff etc... but don't find soloing multiple nms down for a couple items (out of a metric ton needed) using up all of my playtime to be fun. Not saying it can't be done, but would rather not spend months of playtime for a weapon I don't need to enjoy myself in the game.

Nevermind that it costs a lot to solo effectively on bst which means I would still have to be farming my arse off in between. No thanks. Oh and almost no procs... yeah great so not only would soloing down the empy nms cost a fortune, it would also drop next to nothing...

I'm glad that you find getting an empy to be easy. But I find spending all my limited playtime farming NMs to be boring. So, whatever. /shrugs. Also have you soloed these things on bst? Cause if you haven't, please do before you tell me it is easy. Sounds like you're duoing and Dboxing (so 4 manning). Nevermind that when I have to pet swap stuff would be going yellow and some arse like you would be likely to snag it.

[Olor]

The only weapon that I would really want (Farsha) is terrible.

This. This.

And bard harp is only other... but yeah. Please tell me how easy it is to get colourless souls. I dare you.

[scaevola]

Could we at least agree that the phrase "casually making an 85 Empyrean" is a little misleading, because there is a huge difference between trying to make a La Theine Empyrean two hours at a time and trying to make a Tahrongi?

[Zagen]

I'm glad that you find getting an empy to be easy. But I find spending all my limited playtime farming NMs to be boring. So, whatever. /shrugs. Also have you soloed these things on bst? Cause if you haven't, please do before you tell me it is easy. Sounds like you're duoing and Dboxing (so 4 manning). Nevermind that when I have to pet swap stuff would be going yellow and some arse like you would be likely to snag it.

Rorien and I both leveled BST originally so we could solo/duo NMs. At the time I also leveled SMN for the same reason Later on we got mules (his g/f's character and one for my wife if she ever decides to give the game a shot)

So yes soloed them.

Is it practical? No.
Is it efficient? No.
Is it possible? Yes, even in nonbest gear/atma it just costs more gil.


This. This.

And bard harp is only other... but yeah. Please tell me how easy it is to get colourless souls. I dare you.

For T2 Titan can be soloed with yuly. Seen it before. Garuda can be soloed by SMN. Seen it and done it for fun.

For T3 MNK + WHM or THF + WHM is easy (decent MDT for swapping into is about all you need that's pricey) but requires a duo. Sorry haven't done it solo personally or seen anyone solo without a brew. That said I could see Leviathan being soloed or Ifrit but it probably requires good gear and lots of resources.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Edit: I take that back, bar bad luck period since you can Miga the 2hour and backtank until recast if you're that worried about dying.

[Zagen]

Edit: I take that back, bar bad luck period since you can Miga the 2hour and backtank until recast if you're that worried about dying.

Did they change Leviathan so it does the 2hour besides as a just before death move?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Haven't fought him in awhile actually, last time I remember taking it from a nin who wiped (mule whm was dead and mule blm was getting beat on when it went yellow) so I figured it was to 2hour... Now I'm starting to doubt it was...

[svengalis]

I guess since I really don't give a damn about making the weapon but I am making progress anyway, it seems better.

My shell has like 6-9 people on at a time, 3 of those not even at level cap at any given time. And then half of the rest who are at cap are too busy helping themselves to work on other people's crap. And despite what people say about these weapons being soloable, I just don't see myself taking down a lot of them given I don't already have the best gear etc. I mean maybe when you're a nin with Kannagi working on another weapon they are "soloable" with a D-boxed whm... but yeah, doesn't seem realistic for an average, casual player.

It's actually kind of frustrating to see people who have a lot of resources talk about how easy it is to get an empyrean. It isn't that easy for an average player in a small shell with other casual players.
Just to elaborate in what he said about soloing. I have seen quite a few Japanese ninjas solo farming briareus pop items and briareus himself. And I do mean SOLO. I wouldn't do it myself though cause ninja doesn't have all red procs and because I have had briareus use his two hour on us 5 times in one fight. I have never seen anyone solo Sobek though.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Assuming /war and halloween event polearm Ninja can get 11/13 with staff merits/the staff skill Hachimaki. /Dnc is a little under half of them if I remember right.

[Zagen]

Just to elaborate in what he said about soloing. I have seen quite a few Japanese ninjas solo farming briareus pop items and briareus himself. And I do mean SOLO. I wouldn't do it myself though cause ninja doesn't have all red procs and because I have had briareus use his two hour on us 5 times in one fight.
For Bri fight NIN/DNC shouldn't have any TP moves go off. Keep Stutter Step capped on him and Violent Flourish when he readies any TP move. Even with a NIN and THF on him he didn't gain enough TP to spam moves faster than the 30 sec recast on VF. I don't ever recall the Stun not landing out of 100 helms, missed a few steps but not VF.

[svengalis]

Assuming /war and halloween event polearm Ninja can get 11/13 with staff merits/the staff skill Hachimaki. /Dnc is a little under half of them if I remember right.

Who solo's on nin/war?

[svengalis]

For Bri fight NIN/DNC shouldn't have any TP moves go off. Keep Stutter Step capped on him and Violent Flourish when he readies any TP move. Even with a NIN and THF on him he didn't gain enough TP to spam moves faster than the 30 sec recast on VF. I don't ever recall the Stun not landing out of 100 helms, missed a few steps but not VF.

Hmm weird we were only nin and thf and yeah I have never seen him do it before but he did 2 hour 5 times on us. And VF does not always land.

[svengalis]

Haven't fought him in awhile actually, last time I remember taking it from a nin who wiped (mule whm was dead and mule blm was getting beat on when it went yellow) so I figured it was to 2hour... Now I'm starting to doubt it was...

ugh nevermind.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Who solo's on nin/war?

I know for a fact at least one person managed all 3 pre req NMs nin/war and killed Bri nin/thf.

[MDenham]

...but I am not about to ask them to dedicate their limited playtime to getting ME a weapon.Never mind that if we start doing Salvage regularly, I'm convincing everyone else in the shell to make the first mythic we try and make be an Aymur. :D

[Tinderil]

The drop rate of anything in WoE is appalling. SE just keep screwing over their player base. After all the good work they did with Abyssea, the WoE drop rates of anything good (e.g. the new spells etc) are really bad. Who has the time nowadays to spend hundreds of hours of WoE grinding, which isn't even fun anymore - you do it because you want the drops. The actual 'battles' are just a pain, trying to be 1 of the 36 people who can enter is a pain too. This is back to the old school of SE's sadistic idea of "fun". They really screwed it up again. /Sigh

[Zaknafein]

blah blah.... blah blah blah... blah .. blah blah blah

That's what I gathered from the last several pages...

[noodles355]

The drop rate of anything in WoE is appalling.I seem to be getting 2-5 drops, a mix of coins and pouches (eg pouch, coin, coin, pouch, coin last run) every run in flux 7. That's hardly appalling.

[yinn]

I seem to be getting 2-5 drops, a mix of coins and pouches (eg pouch, coin, coin, pouch, coin last run) every run in flux 7. That's hardly appalling.

Coins and pouches every run? Then you're very lucky.

I'm getting coins about 70% of the time (usually 1-2), 1 pouch 10% and no coins 20%. Which is not that appalling either however of the few times I've gotten pouches - 4 were Ruins (7, 7, 9, and 9 in each) and only 1 pouch of Glory (4), and 1 pouch of Adv. (4).

Last run - ruin coin / log / ruin pouch / ingot / ruin coin...

I have twice as much Ruin coins as the other types. Really wish you can convert them as I need 60 decay. Luckily I can still use adv, glory and birth for various other weapons. But I'll be full up on those with many extras before I get to 60 Decay.

I don't understand why Ruin coins are used only for staff...which no one makes.
Of course we'll never get an answer for that.

/endrant

[Olor]

Never mind that if we start doing Salvage regularly, I'm convincing everyone else in the shell to make the first mythic we try and make be an Aymur. :D

That would be hawt but I don't have the patience.

[Jaffa]

Everyone Spam Bump this thread and maybe they'll take the time to do something about the crap rate of coins, I'm sick of getting crafting materials. I mean.. really.. what kind of reward is that. >.> Maybe if we demand enough and they fix it properly, then just maybe they'll learn how to fix other problems(Voidwatch >.>).

[svengalis]

Everyone Spam Bump this thread and maybe they'll take the time to do something about the crap rate of coins, I'm sick of getting crafting materials. I mean.. really.. what kind of reward is that. >.> Maybe if we demand enough and they fix it properly, then just maybe they'll learn how to fix other problems(Voidwatch >.>).

The coin drop rates are not that bad if you do flux 7. It's the spells and devious dies which don't come in pouches.

[Jaffa]

40 pages and you don't think there is a problem? lol

I've been spamming flux 7, I've completed Staff 5 times over. And I'm still sitting at 7 Advancement coins >.>

Big problem to me

[Alhanelem]

Coins and pouches every run? Then you're very lucky.

I'm getting coins about 70% of the time (usually 1-2), 1 pouch 10% and no coins 20%. Which is not that appalling either however of the few times I've gotten pouches - 4 were Ruins (7, 7, 9, and 9 in each) and only 1 pouch of Glory (4), and 1 pouch of Adv. (4).

Last run - ruin coin / log / ruin pouch / ingot / ruin coin...

I have twice as much Ruin coins as the other types. Really wish you can convert them as I need 60 decay. Luckily I can still use adv, glory and birth for various other weapons. But I'll be full up on those with many extras before I get to 60 Decay.

I don't understand why Ruin coins are used only for staff...which no one makes.
Of course we'll never get an answer for that.

/endrantHe's not "very lucky." I have a similar experience. I virtually always get at least one coin, often 2-3 and occasionally more- for minimal effort.



I've been spamming flux 7, I've completed Staff 5 times over. And I'm still sitting at 7 Advancement coins >.>That's just your bad luck. It's just like in dynamis when people complained that <insert drop> wasn't dropping for their group at all. Group B comes out and says they get the same drop almost every run. That's R.N.G. for you...

[Jaffa]

I still believe we should be able to trade coins we don't want, into coins that we do want. Atleast a 2:1 ratio but hell with the amount of ruin I have, I'd be happy with a 5:1 ratio lol

[svengalis]

40 pages and you don't think there is a problem? lol

I've been spamming flux 7, I've completed Staff 5 times over. And I'm still sitting at 7 Advancement coins >.>

Big problem to me

LOL you just got bad luck then. Most of these pages where started right after the update before how everyone knew flux 7 was the one to go to for coins.

[Jaffa]

the rate of coins and pouches isnt determined about how many ppl are in the same flux as you, and the rate is the same no matter what flux. The rate is as bad as Voidwatch

And there's no such thing as luck and bad luck with SE, Just poor programming

[SNK]

The only weapon that I would really want (Farsha) is terrible, the single worst Empyrean Weapon, and one of the hardest to get because of the constant competition for Fistule. So yeah, this is why I will make do with out an Empyrean.

It was actually the oppisite for me. When I originally worked on my Fistules, It would sit up for freaking hours because nobody cared to kill it.

Then of course the update came and it now with it dropping +2 mats which really made this mob a royal pain in the ass to do deal with in terms of claiming it. Suffice to say I was lucky I cleared out that stage when I did because I sure as hell don't want to even imagine doing it with the amount of people spamming it these days.

It's pretty stupid watching people holding that stupid Leech or Flan NM just to make sure they get claim on Fistule. :|

[Luvbunny]

They really need to fix the older zones in Abyssea where you need multiple KI to pop the mob. Chloris and Sobek come to mind... It is completely unnecessary and adding much unneeded stress to the game. Though good luck with that, you would think that the developer would actually bother to change things to make it more fun and enjoyable? Nope, back to hamster wheel for us and try to get 1500 metal plates or some ridiculous amount of craps with super low drop rates. Time sink and grind are the new old things. Fun are the worst offender now.

[Leonlionheart]

They really need to fix the older zones in Abyssea where you need multiple KI to pop the mob. Chloris and Sobek come to mind... It is completely unnecessary and adding much unneeded stress to the game. Though good luck with that, you would think that the developer would actually bother to change things to make it more fun and enjoyable? Nope, back to hamster wheel for us and try to get 1500 metal plates or some ridiculous amount of craps with super low drop rates. Time sink and grind are the new old things. Fun are the worst offender now.

http://th987.photobucket.com/albums/ae353/taniasaur/tumblaahh/th_You-must-be-new-here.jpg

[Olor]

^ best response I've seen in weeks.

[CrAZYVIC]

[dev1038] New Walk of Echoes Battlefields

*Specific system details, names, and so forth are still in development, and therefore subject to change.
*This content is scheduled to undergo periodic adjustments for game balance.
Walks twelve through fifteen of the Walk of Echoes have been unlocked.
*The following modifications have been made on the test server for testing purposes only:
All players will automatically begin with access to all walks.
The key item "Kupofried's Medallion" will not be required for entry.
The time limit for each battle has been extended from 45 minutes to 250 minutes.
-----
If you wish to discuss or submit feedback on this topic, please use the [dev1038] tag.

All players will automatically begin with access to all walks.

This is a good idea, no more spaming and wining x 50 times for unlock a new WoE
flux

The key item "Kupofried's Medallion" will not be required for entry.

So far the best until now for WoE. If you can spam all runs you want without wait 1 hour. This will be fantastic, maybe you will see groups shouting for beat conflux 7, "X" number of times.


My suggestion is. Increase the Coin drop rate for the chest, at least 30% and eliminate the Coin of ruin totaly. So we will be getting x2 coins every run and this 2 coins will be for a usefull weapon.

My second suggestion. Increase the rate get pouchs at least 15% So every few runs average we will get a pouch of a usefull coin. And please i repeat take off coin of ruins.


My 3 suggestion. If Square really want we keep spaming WoE forever, add the Heavy Metal Plate, Seal jobs for items +1, items for upgrade AF3+2, maybe key items for pop Nm in abbysea, items for empyreal weapons like chloris budds lv 80,85,90. in all conflux "All them" not only in 8 - 9 - 10 in all!. So the people probably will be spaming more time this. Obvios a lot of this item probably low drop rate

how will work the new system?. The people will shout in jeuno for a WoE party, probably they will go beat 6 times per hour conflux 7, ending with 12 coins and 1 pouch, this mean in 1 week the people will be finishing enough coins for 1 WoE weapon.

[Kimble]

This was for the test server just for testing purpose. None of this is being added to the real game.

[svengalis]

I think the one day limit is the only reason people are still doing now. If you could just spam woe then people would finish the weapons faster and be done with woe and have no reason to come back. Although I still need like 50 coin of glory I am satisified with the way woe drops are. Coin of glory has had the lowest drop rate of coins for me.

[FrankReynolds]

funny, the 1 day limit is the reason that I never do it.

[Mirage]

What would help would be the ability to store up to three medallions. Then you could do three WoEs, then do something else for three hours, then do three more WoEs again. Sort of like assault, except you get a tag every hour instead of once a day.

[Zaknafein]

WoE is pretty dead on Bahamut. Weekdays it is functional for a few of JST peak hours aside from that it is very weak. Has moderate traffic on weekends still. Glad I got 30+ of every coin in the first 3 weeks. I see some shouts for "WoE LS's" Maybe that was what SE had in mind from the beginning... IDK.

When they release the new confluxes it will pick up again for a few weeks. Anyone still needing coins/dice should spam it when that happens. Seems like the 3:1 npc is in greater need now.