Subtle Blow for Magic

[Tetsujin]

I'm not active on the BLM forum, so I wouldn't know if the discussions been made yet.

As you know, Magic actions feed TP to a mob, and they feed quite a lot.
I'm surprised that BLM, RDM, or SCH haven't gotten the equivalent of Subtle Blow but for elemental magic. I think it particularly fits with BLM because Elemental magic is our forte.

Give it some thought.
- Tetsujin of Hades.


edit: favorably, dark magic would either be non-inclusive or an equivalent given to DRK's. The reason for this is that sometimes TP feed is favorable (helping friends with learning Blue magic etc) and Bio is a go to spell for that. Assuming, for some reason, that your sub doesn't give you dia.

[Gael]

and they feed quite a lot.

Since when ?

[Economizer]

I'm surprised that BLM, RDM, or SCH haven't gotten the equivalent of Subtle Blow but for elemental magic.

Actually, Subtle Blow gear works on damaging magic.

Maybe you mean that spell casters should get Subtle Blow gear (or traits) that activate for magic?


Since when ?

When hit by a spell that does direct damage, enemies gain 10 TP. This is why most subtle blow testing is done with Dia or some other damaging spell. This is also why I spam Dia when helping Blue Mages learn magic.

[Gael]

Cause 10 TP is "quite a lot" for you ? The ratio tp per damages is low for me >_>

You saw the ratio for a melee ? Mages jobs need anything you want but not subtle blow...

[Lordscyon]

^^This is an Awesome Thread^^
Welcome Too Vandiel!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No.

No.

No.

No.

[Tetsujin]

A mid level job trait is what I had in mind. And yeah, 10 TP is definitely a lot per action. It's not something BLM exactly "needs" but it would be very useful, I'm surprised it's being met with such negativity.

[Tetsujin]

I also don't see how enemies gaining less TP from our actions is a bad thing..

[Economizer]

A mid level job trait is what I had in mind.

I don't know about a job trait (maybe, who knows), but since gear and such affects it, there are ways to reduce the TP feed. The easiest way is to get someone to cast something on you that gives large amounts of subtle blow, such as Auspice (10%), or Monk's Roll (4-50%). Since Black Mage tends to lack gear that actually gives this stat, or has to sacrifice magic power for it, these are probably the best way to do it.

[Mirage]

A mid level job trait is what I had in mind. And yeah, 10 TP is definitely a lot per action. It's not something BLM exactly "needs" but it would be very useful, I'm surprised it's being met with such negativity.
Not really, you have to take into consideration how much damage is dealt per TP you feed. You could probably nuke something 10-20 times without feeding a mob more TP than one TP phase of a thief (depending a bit on how much subtle blow gear the thief wears).

It's not that less tp gain from black mages is a bad thing, it's that is isn't really needed, and also isn't exactly a problem.

Doing some quick and probably slightly inaccurate maths, let's do ten nukes outside of abyssea. That's something around idk, 20-30k damage if you're a pretty good mage? You've now fed 100 tp to the mob. without subtle blow gear/job traits from subjobs, a thf will feed 100 tp to a mob after approximately 10-15 dagger hits, that's 5-7.5 attack rounds (excluding multihit procs). In this time, it has probably done somewhere between 750-1200 damage in the TP phase, and used a WS that dealt somewhere around 2-3000 damage.

So there you have it, 100 TP and 20-30k damage, vs 100 TP and 4-5k damage.

Again, I know these numbers are "technically" sort of pulled out of my ass, but I don't think they are unrealistic compared to actual numbers. If someone has got more precise data, please post them instead.

-edit-
typo somewhere up there

[Gael]

^
this

Also you can do a quick test : take a job that doesnt have any suble blow trait and sub bst (even if your bst is lev 1), take a random mob outside jeuno, give him ONE hit and charm it before it can hit you. Then do a <pettp>
You will see why blm is the last job which need this trait

[Tetsujin]

alright, well.... case closed on that issue then.

[Katalsar]

Tbh I'm most certain this won't happen this is coming from a 90 BLM myself.
-BLM is a nuking job strictly damaging.
-BLM also has the spell "Stun" which can completely stun a target from doing a TP move.
-wtf you want BLM to have everything? what's next Charming spell? You have the ability to not get hurt for a set amount of your MP pool, you have the ability to lose all emnity what so ever on a mob. Depending on your sub you get more beneficial things.
-BLM main roll is to nuke, the best thing about BLM if you know how to play it is that you can control your damage as needed. Its simple if you don't want the mob to TP as fast then don't nuke.
-Next idea please

[Erecia]

And yeah, 10 TP is definitely a lot per action.
Yes, it is. But how often are you performing those actions? Most fodder mobs on BLM die in 1-2 hits. Even when proccing in abyssea, even if I have trouble with dirty procs and stuff, I probably don't cast more than 10 damage spells until we're ready to down it. Plus nearly all NMs get silly regain or can use TP at will. The overall TP gain contributed my BLM is negligible compared to melees and the mob's abilities itself.