Phoenix, I summon you!

[JagerForrester]

Yes, Rebirth Flame, a wealthy 2hour ability every SMN will use in time of need. Fire damage on enemies and Raisega. Who's with me?

[Joslyn]

I like that, its not overpowering and could be used when things are going bad.

[RayneShock]

I think this would be a wonderful summon! For Phoenix to be fully summonable though, she would need to have some complimentary abilities:

Rebirth Flame: Medium fire damage to all enemies in AOE and a Raisega 2 effect to all currently KO'd party members
Flame Lash: light fire damage to a single enemy
Blazing Barrier: AOE Blaze Spikes + Protect 1
Undying Spirit: Curaga 1
Phoenix Down: Raise 1 to single party member
Phoenix Flame: Medium fire damage to enemies in AOE range
Unwavering Soul: Curaga 2
Flare: BLM Ancient Magic

So anyone have anything better ^^;; These are my stray thoughts at work so please forgive.

[Dallas]

I'd rather stick to the story and have Phoenix stuck in a staff, with the suggested pacts replacing WS.

[Skylark]

I think this would be a wonderful summon! For Phoenix to be fully summonable though, she would need to have some complimentary abilities:

Rebirth Flame: Medium fire damage to all enemies in AOE and a Raisega 2 effect to all currently KO'd party members
Flame Lash: light fire damage to a single enemy
Blazing Barrier: AOE Blaze Spikes + Protect 1
Undying Spirit: Curaga 1
Phoenix Down: Raise 1 to single party member
Phoenix Flame: Medium fire damage to enemies in AOE range
Unwavering Soul: Curaga 2
Flare: BLM Ancient Magic

So anyone have anything better ^^;; These are my stray thoughts at work so please forgive.
I actually like this idea extremely, could see a few tweaks to BPs and maybe add one more high level one, but would definitely like to see something along these lines.

[hideka]

definate yes. its time smn got some decent loving. id love to see smn popping out a sick looking phoenix and raping things with overpowered fire stuff.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Pay attention to the Chains of Promathia storyline more. Phoenix is... not really available, and I'm not just talking game mechanics.

[Imakun]

It can become available for the very simple reason it's a phoenix. Whatever happens to her, she's bound to come back at some point.
The storyline of her quest could well be tied to CoP and have us find a way to bring her into our world again. Of course Curbuncle will be involved telling you to basically visit almost every zone of the world as usual for some CS.
And she'd be light based, despite using fire. We already have a fire based Avatar and we could really use a stronger light one. Think of it as holy fire or something.
I like the previously posted BPs ideas! But instead of Flare I'd like her to have a breath attack, something like "Scorching breath" or something that does fire damage in the classic breath area of effect. It'd be tricky to use but at least would be something different.
Also change Protect into Protect and Shell, akin to Carby's Shining Ruby but stronger. Also "Radiant wings" could be Curaga + Regenga.
If we gotta do this, let's do it the way it should be I say xD

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

It can become available for the very simple reason it's a phoenix. Whatever happens to her, she's bound to come back at some point.

To see what was involved in getting that to happen the first time, rewatch the cutscenes for "The Pursuit of Paradise" in Pso'Xja.

To see why Phoenix's going away is fundamentally different this time, rewatch the cutscenes for "A Fate Decided" in the Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi. Hint: notice anything different about Selh'teus at this point?

To see another example of a game where Phoenix was really, really, really gone, ala Uncle Ben Parker, see Final Fantasy VI.

[Aerius]

I'm a bit fuzzy on this, but aren't the avatar's a "little piece of power" granted by the avatar's from within the protocrystals? (If I recall the name correctly.)

There could be a way where a little piece of Phoenix's powers could be obtained by Summoners to use. But I'm not that far with the story line yet so I have no idea what happens to Phoenix, only just started doing the missions of the nations.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

You're thinking celestial avatars (a/k/a "sleeping gods"). Phoenix is terrestrial

[Imakun]

To see what was involved in getting that to happen the first time, rewatch the cutscenes for "The Pursuit of Paradise" in Pso'Xja.

To see why Phoenix's going away is fundamentally different this time, rewatch the cutscenes for "A Fate Decided" in the Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi. Hint: notice anything different about Selh'teus at this point?

To see another example of a game where Phoenix was really, really, really gone, ala Uncle Ben Parker, see Final Fantasy VI.

You mean the thing and the other thing with the boy? Yea I remember those..
But at this point it would be easy to make something up and change part of the story, it's not like they didn't do it already! Hint: WotG >_>;

Edited for spoilers huge like xbox lol

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

(Spoilers in white text, highlight to read)

Sure, some small things might have been changed here and there with Wings of the Goddess, but that's part of the nature of having a time-travel storyline. It's kinda hard to whitewash and gloss over little details like the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents just to get what little presence Phoenix had, the impact of which weighs heavily on Tenzen and is a strong motivation for that character's actions, nor can you really easily ignore the merger of Phoenix and Sehl'teus after they both died, which is rather important to maintain as Sehl'teus' death would cause the lethal amounts of Emptiness he absorbed to return to the crystals. That last bit was important to keeping Promathia weak enough to be defeated.

In conclusion, either Phoenix stays "dead" or all of creation ceases to exist, which was exactly what Chains of Promathia was about avoiding.

[Imakun]

I know that, but since we have time travel and parallel dimensions as real and viable options now they could easily avoid all of that. Just try imagining this.
You zone in La Theine Plateau and your Moogle shows up in a CS. "Oh master, I believe this belongs to you. I found it in an old box at the Mog House, kupo." He gives you an orange feather. "I thought it might be important so I ran to you as fast as I could. I'll go back now! Safe travels, Kupo!"
You then go to Carbuncle's stone circle and click on the ???. Carbuncle shows up and it's like "Where did you find that? Oh well that's a feather from Phoenix. Might it be possible.. Listen, <summoner>. What if I told you there was a way to bring at least a part of her back to us? (Insert X numbers of shenanigans about time traveling to the past to gather energy without you-know-what)."
You accept. Go to the past, watch like 3 CS in Windurst, a couple more in some open field area, get some item from some Yagudo or something, go back to Windurst and bam you have Phoenix back. CoP completed would be required of course.

It's not that complicated as it would have been before WotG. WotG and Abyssea allow us to get anywhere we want with storyline at this point. Everything that happened can be avoided by either time traveling or dimension traveling.
And it's lot easier than getting Bahamut really. He'd just eat you.

[Zetonegi]

Spoilers of various questlines in white
Phoenix isn't so much dead as he is a bit too busy to be summoned. In Abyssea, Phoenix was kinda a delicious snack for Promathia AKA Shinryu. You kinda killed him. And if you did the windy quest line you'd know that the terrestrial avatars can die.The end of it was about reviving Fenrir after Karuha-Baruha's crazy misadventures with him. The whole Windurst was going to cease to exist because Fenrir was straight up gone thing. Joker wasn't revived until part way through the missions so it isn't like Fenrir was just dormant, he was legitimately dead. In our world Phoenix is kinda busy helping the world not end. You know the whole keeping Sehl'teus around who is keeping the world around. Its a bit time consuming I'm sure you can understand the pressure he's under though. Phoenix might be to lend us his strength in a millennium or two though so don't give up hope!

[Zeargi]

I read this story too on the wiki by mistake (I wish I hadn't though ;^; )

Spolier in white: Robel-Akbel is actually Karaha-Baruha from another future where he failed to some Fenrir and save Windurst. So it's very possible to have Phoenix, either through the WotG or even Abyssea, as there are plenty of reasons she'd be alive there.

[Panthera]

We get to summon Odin for Pete's sake. Why not Phoenix?

[Teraniku]

You know this can be worked around. We could all travel to various places around Vana'diel recovering "Phoenix Embers" and either fighting NMs for them or get various items to recover them. Then all we'd need to do is go to the top of Parradamo Tor and the Cradle of Rebirth to get Phoenix.

[RayneShock]

Or even Phoenix Pinions like in FF8 I think, weren't those supposed to be only a fragment of Phoenix's power?

[JagerForrester]

You know this can be worked around. We could all travel to various places around Vana'diel recovering "Phoenix Embers" and either fighting NMs for them or get various items to recover them. Then all we'd need to do is go to the top of Parradamo Tor and the Cradle of Rebirth to get Phoenix.

I don't think just trotting up to the Cradle of Rebirth after collecting pieces of him/her will let us summon Phoenix. That's too easy, even if NMs have them and the path up there is troublesome. Nah, there's gotta be a fight to prove our worth, just like the other avatars has challenged us. And the Cradle would be the gateway like the proto-crystals are to Ifrit, Shiva, and the others.

[rufuslupus]

This is going to sound lame but because phoenix currently only has 3 in-game moves in the final COP bcnm, i wouldn't mind phoenix just being like Odin and Alexander. Luminous Lance and Revelation is all we've seen it do and his 3rd move would make quite the grand astral flow perfect for the Odin and Alexander catagory.

Phoenix 3rd move is Redemption which Restores all HP and MP and increases TP to 300% for everybody within range.

To find phoenix we wouldn't have to really go to the Far-East, maybe go see Selh'teus in COP instead.

[JagerForrester]

Phoenix as a regular avatar or an avatar like Odin and Alexander. I don't really care. I'm leaning more towards Odin/Alexander's version because Rebirth Flame would be a very powerful move, one that matches with Perfect Defense and Zantetsuken on the "power scale."

[JagerForrester]

A question came up in another thread, and thought I'd like to discuss the possibility of acquiring Phoenix a little deeper.


In FFXI, Phoenix is a Terrestrial Avatar, the Fiery Bird of Resurrection. She first appeared in the Chains of Promathia storyline, where she played a major role in assisting the heroes of the story. She was slain at some point in the past (which event is not stated by the story). A remnant of her spirit existed in Tenzen's Great Katana, a Samurai from the Far East. She also eventually allied with Selh'teus. While an ally, she has not been entirely benevolent. The Far Eastern nation repowered Phoenix's spirit by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people (its rebirth requires a significant amount of bloodshed).

So in terms of this information, we could obtain Phoenix by either:
1) Going back in time to challenge Phoenix before she is slain. If the WotG expansion is before this occassion. I see this as a very possible solution, but it requires having both COP and WotG.
2) Kill millions of people. In other words. Magian Trials x 9001. And this option could also link to Teraniku's idea of collecting "Ember."

[KorPoni]

Completely understandable why phoenix should become a regular avatar, not a 2hr avatar like odin and alexander. Carbuncle was destroyed altogether, and the only response is shes smaller and more numerous, and retains her control of the six elemental avatars. So, if a samurai can wield a katana with a piece of phoenix's power, why not a smn summon a piece of phoenix's power to fight alongside them?

[jeffanddane]

I always thought when WoTG was brought in there was going to be a side story to get phoenix, something on the lines of (you travel to this strange land in the past and find remember in this time and world phoenix didnt get trapped in a blade) :( god phoenix would be so awesome ; ;.

[Cupofnoodles]

For the fact of items that drop from NM for phoenix, i would say bring it back to sky and make it so NMs like Kirin would have a Lottery Force pop to Spawn a Raging Demon Kirin which would be 5 times stronger then a normal Kirin and it would drop X amount of the Phoenix items and blah blah blah. It would bring a good crowd back to sky at least.

[JagerForrester]

It's a good incentive to put some life back into sky, and doesn't hurt the expansion requirements since RoZ and CoP are already linked together with Apocalypse Nigh.

[Penance]

I've been hoping for Phoenix and Bahamut from the beginning. I thought they were postponing Phoenix to a new expansion after Tenzen but up till now theres not much news of it.

My favorite is still Anima, too bad its static like Alexander :(

[Malamasala]

I'm not sure about your focus on bringing sky back. There are hundreds of zones nobody visits, might as well put it there to populate that zone.

[radicaldreamer]

It shouldn't matter if the CoP storyline interferes with the idea of having Phoenix as a summon monster. Remember Abyssea is an alternate world, and there could be an alternate phoenix, as well as an alternate Bahamut that is willing to make a pact with summoners. (would be crazy nice)

[JagerForrester]

Looking at it in a storyline view. Don't forget the "Devivification" Abysseans suffer for traversing to Vana'diel.

Ragemont: In crossing over to this world, residents of Abyssea suffer from a phenomenon wherein their strength is halved.
"Devivification," 'tis called, though the exact science of it remains beyond our fathoming.

The idea of alternate Phoenixes and Bahamuts and their "strength" being halved doesn't appeal to me.

[Strife]

I've been hoping we'd get Phoenix for a long time, it's one of my favourite summons in the FF franchise. As far as her being a normal or 2hr avatar I'd be happy with either but considering Phoenix has always been an avatar to only show up for one attack I'd say it'd more likely be a 2hr avatar. I'd like to see her have an ability that raises dead members -without weakness- & maybe gives a reraise effect with the same bonus as well as recovering HP (maybe MP, TP & timers to or with other bonuses like a strong regen/ refresh/ regain depending on how generous SE wants to be lol).

@ Ziyyigo

It is in a Phoenix's nature to resurrect no matter how it dies it remains immortal (those terms sound strange next to each other but you know what I mean lol) with regards to reviving dead avatars & disentangling two entities it's been done in FFXI story line already under the same treat of total annihilation -because lets face it what in FF isn't done under the threat of total annihilation?- think of Fenrir in the Windurst story line. Also the Phoenix appears in a few cultures mythologies under various names & in some after the Phoenix dies she leaves behind an egg that hatches into a new bird so SE could easily exploit this subtle difference to make a story line in which while the Phoenix from CoP is lets say busy with other errands the summoner could find & hatch the new Phoenix egg. Besides if nothing else they could easily just make something new up Some of the explanations in other story lines have been so flimsy it really wouldn't be so detrimental to the pride of SE to just go "Phoenix was gone & now she's back, the end!" lol. Some people are going to QQ about whatever SE does just like people have been & we are QQ at not having her.

[Imakun]

Let's not forget the feather we see floating at the end of the last CoP CS.
Also I'd say that if we got Odin and Alexander from a storyline point of view, we can get anything. Although I don't think Bahamut will be an option in the future. Phoenix we haven't seen yet, but Bahamut is just too big. It would require an alternate version of him, something like Bahamut Zero or something which would feel a bit random to me.