Sooo.... Emps?

[Kojo]

I read you need 1500 drops from Voidwatch to get to the 95 stage. If this is true, wouldn't it be more efficient to go the WoE route? I'm not saying I'm completely against this, When people have Relics or Mythics, back in the day, THAT meant something, and over time relics became common sights. But everyone has an Empyrean. I, myself was waiting till PUP and MNK were both well equipped before shooting for Verethragna, so I slowed down on the Farruca Fly trial, but since I have little to no interest in Voidwatch, wouldn't it be more efficient to go for WoE, or should I get Vere to at least 90?

[Greatguardian]

It depends on future trials and weapons. Most level 90 Emps should still handily destroy a level 95 WoE weapon, and Vereth is one of them. But comparing a level 90 Emp to level 99 weapons may be a different story altogether, especially when 99 Endgame weapon drops are taken into account.

Personally, I'd just get the Emp if you have the means to. It just looks awesome.

[Symbiote]

And this is where it begins. The lazy are separated from the dedicated.

If you want to lose out on the higher base damage, the stat boost, and the aftermath. Sure, go for the WoE path weapon. Enjoy your lackluster weapon.

[Greatguardian]

And this is where it begins. The lazy are separated from the dedicated.

If you want to lose out on the higher base damage, the stat boost, and the aftermath. Sure, go for the WoE path weapon. Enjoy your lackluster weapon.

Did you even read the OP?

He's not knocking the effort behind the weapons. He's simply saying he likely won't be doing Voidwatch (Group) trials, so he's asking for a comparison between 90 Emps and 95/99 WoE weapons.

[Kojo]

And this is where it begins. The lazy are separated from the dedicated.

If you want to lose out on the higher base damage, the stat boost, and the aftermath. Sure, go for the WoE path weapon. Enjoy your lackluster weapon.

I think you miss the point. I'm not being lazy, I'm not whining over the difficulty, in fact, I kinda think it's funny. I'm just not interested in Voidwatch. Just like I'm not interested in Garrison, Einherjar, Salvage, etc. You made a point, but you sounded like an ass making it.

[Antanias]

After 75 Apademak Horns, bring it on >D

[Kojo]

After 75 Apademak Horns, bring it on >D

Lol, GL with that. I'll still be equipping my jobs before I continue. ><

[Yugl]

That depends on how far they plan on taking the magian trials and whether 1500 X will be difficult to obtain. Occasionally double damage is going to be difficult to beat solely using a few points of base damage.

[Runespider]

Strange they would make you do an event unrelated to where the weapons come from to carry on, rather lazy attempt to make voidwatch more popular. Also if the drop rates are as bad as people say they should of made the upgrades a lot better, very few are going to want to bother upgrading.

[MojoJojo]

I'm still kinda "meh" over getting 75 apademak horns for my kannagi. For me, it'll be quite the effort getting those horns. Perhaps i'm just still stoked i got the lvl85 version, and a bit burned out on the trials. I still plan on doing it, but i'm probably going to take my sweet ass time. But looking at wiki, it doesnt seem to be worth the trouble for the lvl 95.

[noodles355]

I'm probably going to take a break after 85 gun. Like I said in other topic, I'm playing serious catch up on the whole abyssea thing so went for an empy I knew I could do by myself with no help. I can say for sure unless the plates are easy to get I'll be leaving gun at 85 or 90. If I was to start dagger... that would be a different story... But I'ma wait till I'm in the same timezone as my ls before I start farming those >.> (and take a break to do other things after all these orobons)

[MarkovChain]

I read you need 1500 drops from Voidwatch to get to the 95 stage.

There is no proof of this.

[Kristal]

Strange they would make you do an event unrelated to where the weapons come from to carry on, rather lazy attempt to make voidwatch more popular. Also if the drop rates are as bad as people say they should of made the upgrades a lot better, very few are going to want to bother upgrading.

What's so strange about it? Shoggoth, Farruca Fly, Chesma, Chloris, Ulhuadshi and Dragua are all voidwalkers...

[Saefinn]

So basically more several hours of doing the same thing over and over to make it tedious and boring to get a powerful weapon.

Shouldn't it just be fun and interesting? That's my feedback on Emps at least.

[noodles355]

There is no proof of this.Except the Moogle asking for 1500 of them?

Edit: jp blog getting plate drop from vw on test server: http://zonik.exblog.jp/14574805/

[Aver]

There is no proof of this.

Keep trollan, PChan.

Then go talk to the magian moogle.

[MarkovChain]

Except the Moogle asking for 1500 of them?

Edit: jp blog getting plate drop from vw on test server: http://zonik.exblog.jp/14574805/

You know what's funny ? Everyone does like you and quotes this obscur JP blogger. He didn't post any pic of HMP dropping. He did however post fire crystal and a potion dropping. Weird, isn't it ? This what people call internet rumor. There is no picture of HMT dropping so far neither on test server or in the normal game.

[Aver]

Yes we all saw the that BGer have been spreading bullshit info since Sunday. You know what's funny ? Everyone does like you and quotes this obscur JP blogger. He didn't post any pic of HMP dropping. He did however post fire crystal and a potion dropping. Weird, isn't it ? This what people call internet rumor. There is no picture of HMT dropping so far neither on test server or in the normal game.

Spreading "bullshit info"? You mean aside from the fact that they were completely right about the cap increase yet you went into blind rage mode because BG can't possibly be right about anything even though the majority of the time they are? What makes you think this *won't* drop from VWNM, seeing as, and I'm saying this again, SE has stated, publicly, this is where they want us to take our endgame activities?

[MarkovChain]

Oh wait so now that I destroyed your "JP blog" argument, you pull the "SE said that" argument. Interesting. Isn't it obvious that they'll come from WoE ? See ? I can play the "likely com from" card too. POIDH.

[Aver]

Look at the roadmap. See how there's no mention of abyssea - that's out. WoE is already used for upgrading gimpyreans - that's out. Dynamis is dynamis - that's out.

VWNM is the only logical place our empyrean upgrade items are going to be dropping from.

Unless they're coming from taisai, again.

[MarkovChain]

If I follow your logic abyssea should be the place where emp upgrade come from. All Isee if you have no proof of where it drops from, and you called me out for saying it.

[Nynja]

There is no proof of this.

Then go get your own proof and talk to the magian moogle, it shouldnt take too much of your precious time.

[MarkovChain]

[Comment deleted by Moderator] where does the mog tell you they come from voidwatch?

[Mahoro]

where does the mog tell you they come from voidwatch?

Well, we can probably rule out Abyssea at this point. People have been infesting it since yesterday and no reports of Plates dropping. Most likely candidates are Voidwatch or WoE.

[Runespider]

Well, we can probably rule out Abyssea at this point. People have been infesting it since yesterday and no reports of Plates dropping. Most likely candidates are Voidwatch or WoE.

They could be timed pops in Abyssea, or even from some new quest or other. Can't rule it out for a few days until people actually find out where they come from. Been noticing JP players mass killing a lot of usually left alone mobs too (and swapping regularly between mobs etc) so either they know something we don't or they are just all mass testing.

[Zumi]

If I follow your logic abyssea should be the place where emp upgrade come from. All Isee if you have no proof of where it drops from, and you called me out for saying it.

Seeing as tier 2 Voidwatch was done on the test server with 1 person getting a plate in their chest what more proof do you need? You seem like one of those people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Cesil]

I wish it was something other then voidwatch :/ Well...at least we can buy them I guess? I wouldn't mind if it was something I can lowman...oh well.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Most likely it will be revised from 1500 or plate drops increased. Also, theres talk of mythic becoming 2-3 occ attack so perhaps empyrean will see 2-3x damage at 99. This seems likely to me and justifies the 1500 plates and whatever the final 99 upgrade trial contains.

[noodles355]

Most likely it will be revised from 1500 or plate drops increased. Also, theres talk of mythic becoming 2-3 occ attack so perhaps empyrean will see 2-3x damage at 99. This seems likely to me and justifies the 1500 plates and whatever the final 99 upgrade trial contains.I don't agree. Remember when dynamis currancy came out and people moaned about how crap the drop rate on currancy was? Then we learnt how to stagger the mobs and that massively increased the drop rate. No reason why this wont be the same.
Also I would be against empyreans getting Occasionally deals triple damage. Empyreans are already stronger than most relic or mythic counterparts which are MUCH more difficult or time consuming to get. If they keep buffing relics/mythics then maybe by 99 they could be on equal ground, but they certainly wont be if empyreans start doing triple damage.

[Catsby]

Wasn't any of this investigated on the test server?

[Shadowsong]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] where does the mog tell you they come from voidwatch?


Where is your proof it does not come from Voidwatch?
Why are you so adamant against this? You know what a sane person would say if they disagreed with this? "Hey guys, while it probably does come from Voidwatch since that's the only thing that has upgraded content, let's wait until we get some screenshots and such before discussing wether it is worth doing or not". I promise you will get a better response.

[MarkovChain]

Seeing as tier 2 Voidwatch was done on the test server with 1 person getting a plate in their chest what more proof do you need?

This is wrong.


Where is your proof it does not come from Voidwatch?

Just because you want it to come from VW does not make it correct. I don't have to prove what you quoted simply because I didn't claim it doh, just have to wait until the JP find it [Comment deleted by Moderator.]

[Runespider]

Seeing as tier 2 Voidwatch was done on the test server with 1 person getting a plate in their chest what more proof do you need?

As far as I was aware the test server gave no drops, was that not the case?

[Lordscyon]

WoE weaponds is better than nothing stop overating EmP
People can decide what they wana get in the game + its a game.

[noodles355]

I guess if you think back to pre-2h buff when dual world ruled the world, A WoE weapon was like the Joyeuse to an Empy's Ridill for War/Nin.

Invites the question, if a job is subpar without an empyrean, then are you a subpar player if you dont have an empyrean for all your jobs (who make use of one)? By the logic of "if you dont have an empyrean, your job is sub par" (exluding jobs with lol empyreans like drg), even if you had the best possible TP sets, WS sets, capped MDT and PDT sets and any other various sets your job might require like magic casting or evasion, etc, even if you couldn't physically improve any of your gear sets, if you didn't have an empyrean, you are still subpar? Not sure I agree with that really, or at least not for certain jobs based on the strengths of their existing main weaponskill and which empyrean path they take. Take a WAR who had near-perfect TP, WS (Covering all combinations of zerk/agg/restraint), PDT, MDT sets, but who leveled the job to help the ls or help him gain gear for his other jobs and who thus said "fuck doing glavoid for this job". I certainly wouldn't call him subpar.

Edit: To be honest, by saying "everyone without an empyrean is below average", I think you are grossly overestimating the community. The great majority of players are still running around in NQ/+1 AF3 and perle/aurore/teal gear. The average player is actually very bad. The bar is set pretty fucking low. For example, I leveled Nin to 90 on my alt from 75. His gear is very below average, he has no AF3 yet and uses mostly 75 stuff. (Off the top of my head: turban/Acc+12 neck/Suppa/Brutal/AF1/Dusk/Uthalam/Rajas/Atheling/Swift/Byakko/Ballerines TP, Shura/Acc+12/Ethreal/Brutal/Hauby/Dusk/Uhalem/Rajas/Atheling/Warwolf/Shura/Rutters WS). I would be the first to call him gimp, and I would never use him as anything other than a red proc bitch job on Nin. However, he is still easilly better than the majority of the players in this game. Not because I'm a super duper awesome player (even though I am), but because the standard of the average player is really damn low.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Depends on the job, since obviously Mage emps are mostly toys and as stated for Drg the OAT polearm is fairly close inside (Although I think Rhongo does better outside, and obv mythic destroys both. With the level 95 update to relics Gugnir also got better).

If they are serious about the job and aren't working on either Emp/WoE weapon when that is the biggest boost to the job, then yes, you can call them at best, just about average. If the boost from Emp is irrelevant then no.

I consider people like that a waste of time, and only bother with them out of boredom/extreme desperation because no one else is online. There really isn't a need to even consider those type of player, even jobs considered terrible at DDing (cept maybe blm and Smn) would be better than those kind of players.

[xiozen]

Strange they would make you do an event unrelated to where the weapons come from to carry on, rather lazy attempt to make voidwatch more popular.

Didn't the beginning of the trials require NMs scattered throughout Vanadiel?

Trial 68: Tumbling Truffle x3
Trial 69: Helldiver x3
Trial 70: Orctrap x3
Trial 71: Intulo x4
Trial 72: Ramponneau x4
Trial 73: Keeper of Halidom x4
Trial 74: Shoggoth x6
Trial 75: Farruca Fly x6
Trial 1138: Chesma x8

These had nothing to do with Abyssea directly... soooo how's this any different, requiring drops from voidwatch? 'O.o'"?
'

[Greatguardian]

I guess if you think back to pre-2h buff when dual world ruled the world, A WoE weapon was like the Joyeuse to an Empy's Ridill for War/Nin.

Invites the question, if a job is subpar without an empyrean, then are you a subpar player if you dont have an empyrean for all your jobs (who make use of one)? By the logic of "if you dont have an empyrean, your job is sub par" (exluding jobs with lol empyreans like drg), even if you had the best possible TP sets, WS sets, capped MDT and PDT sets and any other various sets your job might require like magic casting or evasion, etc, even if you couldn't physically improve any of your gear sets, if you didn't have an empyrean, you are still subpar? Not sure I agree with that really, or at least not for certain jobs based on the strengths of their existing main weaponskill and which empyrean path they take. Take a WAR who had near-perfect TP, WS (Covering all combinations of zerk/agg/restraint), PDT, MDT sets, but who leveled the job to help the ls or help him gain gear for his other jobs and who thus said "fuck doing glavoid for this job". I certainly wouldn't call him subpar.

Edit: To be honest, by saying "everyone without an empyrean is below average", I think you are grossly overestimating the community. The great majority of players are still running around in NQ/+1 AF3 and perle/aurore/teal gear. The average player is actually very bad. The bar is set pretty fucking low. For example, I leveled Nin to 90 on my alt from 75. His gear is very below average, he has no AF3 yet and uses mostly 75 stuff. (Off the top of my head: turban/Acc+12 neck/Suppa/Brutal/AF1/Dusk/Uthalam/Rajas/Atheling/Swift/Byakko/Ballerines TP, Shura/Acc+12/Ethreal/Brutal/Hauby/Dusk/Uhalem/Rajas/Atheling/Warwolf/Shura/Rutters WS). I would be the first to call him gimp, and I would never use him as anything other than a red proc bitch job on Nin. However, he is still easilly better than the majority of the players in this game. Not because I'm a super duper awesome player (even though I am), but because the standard of the average player is really damn low.

A player who is competent and capable enough to perfect their gear is more than competent and capable enough to acquire an Empyrean weapon. I'm not going to knock someone who is actually making non-Malacite levels of progress on their first, but it is a reasonable expectation that any good player is capable of getting as many Empyreans as they want with minimal issue. These are not Relic or Mythic weapons. If a player is capped on gear, but is not pursuing a relevant Empyrean (obviously this only counts for the jobs where the Emps matter), then they are doing something wrong.

Likewise, if we really cared about the actual average gear and skill for players in this game, full perle would be a luxury. Personally, I choose not to add the unwashed masses into the equation at all. I, for one, would never want to be told "Eh, your NIN is a total gimp, but at least it's better than Rosina's". What does that do for me? Why should I, or anyone else with half an ounce of self respect, want to be compared to people who run around in 4/5 perle and NQ AF3?

Among players who are worth playing with, a relevant Empyrean weapon makes the job average. If a non-Empyrean is the best weapon for the job, then that makes the job average. None of the final form Magian weapons are especially difficult to get.

Edit: LOL Real Life Card above me. Holy crap, dude. I play, uh... an average of an hour or two a week as a fulltime student? I have two Empyreans, multiple sets of AF3+2, and all around way better crap than 99% of the game populace. Get the hell out with that "Some of us have priorities" crap.

[Elexia]

WoE weaponds is better than nothing stop overating EmP
People can decide what they wana get in the game + its a game.

You're not allowed to state "it's just a game".

[Tamoa]

nice a-hole comment. Maybe you have no life, you sit in your basement playing nothing but ffxi and only taking a break when you need to pee and masturbate, but many other people actually do not have the luxury of having as much spare time as you. So it has nothing to do with being lazy, it has to do with priorities in real life, which you seem not to have any.

You realize by posting something like that you have just revealed what kind of person you are, and it's nothing positive.

[Elexia]

You realize by posting something like that you have just revealed what kind of person you are, and it's nothing positive.

Everyone knows what kind of person and poster Xbob is.

[xbobx]

That is fine. the person was is an a hole for saying people that choose woe weapon over emp are lazy. Does reality and truthful comments make you a bad person. then i am bad.

[xbobx]

I call bs. Unless someone botted you for your emp or did all the work getting KI for you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

ITT: Someone gets stuff faster than I do, they must be botting

[xbobx]

Everyone knows what kind of person and poster Xbob is.

Yep, one that tells it as it is, and doesn't suck up to SE and the Mods.

[Tamoa]

That is fine. the person was is an a hole for saying people that choose woe weapon over emp are lazy. Does reality and truthful comments make you a bad person. then i am bad.

Funny how I know a lot of people with rl commitments such as work, family and/or school, and they still have managed to find the time to make an empyrean weapon. Some have more than one, even.

Your "truthful comments" aren't any more correct than someone saying everyone who gets a WoE weapon instead of empyrean is lazy. And that "sitting in your (momma's) basement" crap is tired and old and just plain stupid.

[Catsby]

I ask again. Did anybody investigate any of this 90->95 stuff on the test server weeks ago?

[Wagram]

If the reports are true and they may not be. Heavy Metal Plates are 100% drop from tier 4 NMs in VW. There are also pouches.

I'll be frank in saying my Emps will most likely never get past 90. The reason I chose to do it in the first place was that I got a decent weapon for the amount free time I could put in. Now I need 1500 Metal Plates? But Relic/Mythics need to kill 5-10 NMs? That's not fair. I get to work for a year or more for a crap 9 DMG upgrade with 2 STR. I don't think so.

I know and agree that Relics/Mythics should be better then Empryeans but just because they complained doesn't mean that SE needed to destroy Empryeans for those of us who don't have as much time/money to invest in the game.

[Feliciaa]

Empryeans are still great weapons. SE is just balancing out the time/reward ratio. If you want to stay top tier it's time for Emp people to put in work too.

[MarkovChain]

I think something is fishy because the OAT weapons require 150 drops (from VW) and woe wpns require 150 too so If the plates come from VW there may be a bogus in the amount of plates required. 1500 means you need to kill at least 150 of them with an alliance, and get all the drops. It's not very realistic seeing as all empy 95 will require it. Also the wpns boost from 90-95 is pretty much a joke meaning noone will care anyway.

[Juilan]

I can see the HMP coming from VW, but if they require some where from 750 to 1500 kills thats asking too much (since you can only pop so many monsters a day), if you can get about 25 from a pouch or w/e it wouldn't be too much of an issue, since 1500/25 is 60 (will still take over a month). I read someone saying he fully farmed an apoc in about a month doing dynamis so having it take longer than a month of constant VW (you can get about 2 Void watch stones a day without IS CP or AN?) is reasonable for a 95.

although it is still the wrong end to balance the weapons, if they wanted to balance them make us do extra NM camps and get plates or w/e, give us multiple part trials that are accessible in that case. The counter part to these is dynamis currency which is very accessible if you actually do dynamis (though the 100s could use a higher drop rate compared to what they have been)

[Catsby]

Empryeans are still great weapons. SE is just balancing out the time/reward ratio. If you want to stay top tier it's time for Emp people to put in work too.

I think you meant to say something different. 1500 drops off a HNM fight for +2 stat and +6ish base damage is hardly a good example of time/reward.

[Cream_Soda]

I think you meant to say something different. 1500 drops off a HNM fight for +2 stat and +6ish base damage is hardly a good example of time/reward.
they mean the entirety of an emp weapon, not that stage specifically

[Greatguardian]

I call bs. Unless someone botted you for your emp or did all the work getting KI for you.

None of the above. I don't bot, I never have, and I probably never will. I Cataclysm-cleaved all of my Tahrongi pops (was one of the original people doing this and spreading information about it on BG), and was always present and working throughout the duration of my Emps, even when other friends of mine were just afk leeching EXP off me. I have friends who I can log on with and go do things with immediately without having to wait around and try to find people for things, and that's really the only advantage I have over "most" people. But honestly, having friends is not cheating.

I'm a dedicated student with a social life, a girlfriend, and a hell of a lot of other things I do outside of playing FFXI. I'm sorry that you seem to think anyone who's better than you at a video game has to be a low life basement dweller with no friends and no commitments, but you're dead wrong. I have priorities. I'm just plain better at FFXI than you, and you're just going to have to get the hell over that.

[Catsby]

I can see the HMP coming from VW, but if they require some where from 750 to 1500 kills thats asking too much (since you can only pop so many monsters a day), if you can get about 25 from a pouch or w/e it wouldn't be too much of an issue, since 1500/25 is 60 (will still take over a month). I read someone saying he fully farmed an apoc in about a month doing dynamis so having it take longer than a month of constant VW (you can get about 2 Void watch stones a day without IS CP or AN?) is reasonable for a 95.

although it is still the wrong end to balance the weapons, if they wanted to balance them make us do extra NM camps and get plates or w/e, give us multiple part trials that are accessible in that case. The counter part to these is dynamis currency which is very accessible if you actually do dynamis (though the 100s could use a higher drop rate compared to what they have been)

This is why the high level design of the mythic weapon quests was so good. There you basically had to 100% ToAU and got something nice for it. It failed miserably when the devs decided "oh well we should make people turn in 50,000 things, do all the assaults over again, and rack up an silly amount of Ichor". I'm pretty sure if alexandrite reqs were dropped to 1000, Ichor by 1/2 and assault do over removed people would still not bother since you still only get the 75 version and all the super fun trials after that.

The devs needed to take a hint from the mythic quests. There is a ton of content surrounding abyssea but instead they half assed it.

[Catsby]

they mean the entirety of an emp weapon, not that stage specifically

That seems about right. 50-50-75 is still bullshit in my opinion though. There are tons of other ways they could have structured it to be challenging and engaging.

[Atomic_Skull]

Seeing as tier 2 Voidwatch was done on the test server with 1 person getting a plate in their chest what more proof do you need? You seem like one of those people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I think it's more like he desperately, desperately hopes it's not true.

[Atomic_Skull]

Most likely it will be revised from 1500 or plate drops increased. Also, theres talk of mythic becoming 2-3 occ attack so perhaps empyrean will see 2-3x damage at 99. This seems likely to me and justifies the 1500 plates and whatever the final 99 upgrade trial contains.

I think it's more likely that with Tanaka back in charge of FFXI easy mode is being turned off. First day back on the job he probably looked at the last year of content and said "My god they've ruined it!"

[Kimble]

I love how people cried so much for FFXI to go back to how it was pre-abyssea and now that its starting to not be as easy as abyssea people are crying the game is going back to how it was pre-abyssea.

[noodles355]

A player who is competent and capable enough to perfect their gear is more than competent and capable enough to acquire an Empyrean weapon. I'm not going to knock someone who is actually making non-Malacite levels of progress on their first, but it is a reasonable expectation that any good player is capable of getting as many Empyreans as they want with minimal issue. These are not Relic or Mythic weapons. If a player is capped on gear, but is not pursuing a relevant Empyrean (obviously this only counts for the jobs where the Emps matter), then they are doing something wrong. I see what you mean. When you concider yourself against the players you'd want to be around then it would be subpar. I was gonna say "What if I leveled Nin as a red proc bitch job to help with my empy farming, already got all it's +2 materials rot whilest farming and had other gear from other jobs already, but couldn't be bothered to do an emp/woe for a proc whore job, would it still be subpar?" But thinking about it, compared to the other players I like to play around, yes it would.

I'll be fine with my war, which I lvld as a red bitch proc job being subpar. But I will probably go for Empy/WoE for the others. Of Thf at least, might just do WoE bow for rng if it's got Arma already, and OAT for drg.

[Runespider]

I love how people cried so much for FFXI to go back to how it was pre-abyssea and now that its starting to not be as easy as abyssea people are crying the game is going back to how it was pre-abyssea.

Problem is we liked the game as it was but once you get used to how it is now its really hard to go back. I did the old endgame content, HNM camps for 4-8 hours every day, late night events etc and at the time I enjoyed them but now I've got used to new FFXI the thought of how it used to be makes me want to puke.

Even the most hardcore of us isn't really ready for the game time warping back to old "tanaka" ways.

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

What's up with the whining about Emps, they are the easiest job specific end game weapons to get so far. Dare i remind you all about the Mythics?

30,000 Alexandrite
Balrahn's Eyepatch
Wyrmseeker Areuhat
100,000 Therion Ichor
150,000 Nyzul Isle Tokens
Mamool Ja Journal
Lebros Chronicle
Leujaoam Log
Periqia Diary
Ilrusi Ledger

Plus all the prerequisite quests, basically beating the whole expansion content 100%. Then running it for months to acquire the items/ichor/alexandrite.

lolemp >.>

[Arcon]

What's up with the whining about Emps, they are the easiest job specific end game weapons to get so far.

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

[Tsukino_Kaji]

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).So what are these 1500 what ever they ares? I haven't botehred to look. Are they tradable? If not, that gives relic/mythic a slight leg up.

[Aver]

Problem is we liked the game as it was but once you get used to how it is now its really hard to go back. I did the old endgame content, HNM camps for 4-8 hours every day, late night events etc and at the time I enjoyed them but now I've got used to new FFXI the thought of how it used to be makes me want to puke.

Even the most hardcore of us isn't really ready for the game time warping back to old "tanaka" ways.

This, a million times this. Can has happy middle ground please? Somewhere between EZModeXI and lolwutdorpsXI?

[Arcon]

So what are these 1500 what ever they ares? I haven't botehred to look. Are they tradable? If not, that gives relic/mythic a slight leg up.

1500x Heavy Metal. They're tradeable, drop off VWNMs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

1500x Heavy Metal. They're tradeable, drop off VWNMs.Then epyrean is still a joke, but they just got way more expensive. I.e. not free anymore unless your have a VWNM LS. lol

[Glacont]

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

I Stand Behind You On This One.

I am excited about coming full circle on My Weapon. [Void > Abyssea > Void] and getting a chance to really test My Outside Abyssea WS Set on the New Mobs. However, the extension of required items is excessive. For the moment, I feel it is best to wait and see what the drop ratio maybe. For us Emp Weilders, let Us Hope the drop ratio of Heavy Metal Plates are not along the lines of waitting in Xara for your Relic THF and RDM to arrive, pre-level capped raised.

[uptempo]

ITT: Someone gets stuff faster than I do, they must be botting


This so much the ammount times i get accused of been a fish bot stuff because i happen to enjoy fishing is really laughable. The gimp in question circles around me does some kind of emote then says bot, to which i reply get lost in not so kind words, it happens at least once a day lol.

Really makes me laugh.

[noodles355]

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

[Arlan]

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

Time consuming isn't fun. It's just time consuming.
Not everyone has the time to burn on a weapon when there are thousands of other things to do in ffxi or in other games that you can accomplish things much faster and still have the same sense of accomplishment.

Generally, I prefer getting my rewards from Skills, not time consuming elements.

[Sparthos]

Apparently SE disagrees since everything in this latest patch has been an across the board grind for all.

[Caketime]

Apparently SE disagrees since everything in this latest patch has been an across the board grind for all.

There's content in this game that ISN'T a massive grind? Where?!

[Feliciaa]

A ultimate weapon is ment to be time consuming but in emp case you get to enjoy a very powerful weapon without having it @95. Which is not the case for a majority of the relic/mythic weapons.

Easy mode is over with. However, emp holders can still put out great numbers. You just might not be the best DD @99.

[Xynin]

SE did say they were moving away from level 75 content and that 91-99 would be more involved in anything that is done. I would imagine this is just a smaller portion of what will be due for a lvl 99 empyrean weapon.

[Catsby]

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

None should be a pain in the ass grind fest but they all should require some sort of dedication and meaningful challenge. At present mythics(minus the salvage, Einherjar, and assault grinding) are the only weapons that require that dedication and provide you that challenge.

Relics barely give you a challenge. Once you've proven you can find and turn in a handful of currency the only thing stopping you from finishing is supply and your wallet. Having to get access to Northlands and fight certain dynamis NMs was kind of a challenge but that's about as far as it went with it.

Empyreans are even worse. Once you've proven you can kill whatever boss once or twice what's the point in killing it another 40 times? There isn't a point since it's a quest design cop out.

Like I've said a million times before mythics are best in terms of design. Completing the ToAU storyline requires dedication and is a challenge. Obtaining a captain wildcat badge requires dedication and is a challenge. Killing the 3 ToAU beast kings requires dedication and is a challenge. Clearing all Einherjar wings including odin's chamber requires dedication and is a challenge. Defeating the 4 chariots requires dedication and is a challenge. Gathering the trophies off Sarameya, Tinnin and Tyger requires dedication and is a challenge.

It's a little known fact that a small percentage of people who put a game into their console/PC will actually finish it. Don't believe me? If you have steam go open it up and look at the percentage of people who unlock achievements for starting the game versus finishing it. Don't have steam? go look at this year's census. Do you see where I'm going with this? Completing content would have been enough to justify a mythic weapon. Unfortunately development derp'd and decided to make the player collect a billion things so too many people wouldn't finish the quest. Because we all know 40,000 ultimate weapons entering the playerbase in less than a year would totally destroy the game...oh wait...

[MarkovChain]

Mdk got a silver mirror from a tier II city-VoidWatch btw lol, so HeavyMetalPlate either come from tierII in the new zones don't come from VoidWatch at all.

[Leonlionheart]

mdk got a silver mirror from a tier II city VW btw lol so HMT comes from tierII in new VW or don't come at all.

what the f*** are you trying to say

[Kysaiana]

@Catsby
The problem with Mythic Weapons, is that out of the 20 of them maybe 3 or 4 are actually worth the effort involved. Requiring all the NM titles for them is fine and a lot easier than it was back at 75. However, the rest of the requirements are nothing more than a time-sink. I have Captain rank so I've done all 51 Assault Battles. And while most were fun a the time and would be easier now pre-lvl cap, I don't think I'd want to do all 50 again.

As far as empyreans go, I don't know what other requirements would make them "a challenge" or involve "dedication." If you mean requiring NM titles like a mythic, most people will/have beat/beaten Shinryuu simply for the atma/abyssite if not the gear.

There's noting really wrong with the 1500 Heavy Metal Plates for the 95 trial. My only worry is that it's been 4 days since the update and no one has posted finding their location yet. If they're from voidwatch, that's fine. But considering no one has found them yet, or at least posted finding them yet, I would seem this trial will be a rather huge time-sink.

[Catsby]

The problem with Mythic Weapons, is that out of the 20 of them maybe 3 or 4 are actually worth the effort involved. Requiring all the NM titles for them is fine and a lot easier than it was back at 75. However, the rest of the requirements are nothing more than a time-sink. I have Captain rank so I've done all 51 Assault Battles. And while most were fun a the time and would be easier now pre-lvl cap, I don't think I'd want to do all 50 again.

Whether or not they are "worth it" is a matter of personal opinion. There are probably people out there with the mythic katana or axe that are perfectly content with them. Yes, I agree with you some of the requirements are time sinks. Collecting a tens of thousands of alexandrite, meaningless. Completing all the assaults again when you already need to play them again for remnants permits and AP, dumb. The point was that by doing everything ToAU related you have experienced everything that the expansion had to offer and far more than an average player. The dumb grindy parts could have easily been replaced with better challenges like breaking mirrors in zones that had them, clearing Ashu Talif, clearing some ISNMs, and unlocking the jobs that came with the expansion.



As far as empyreans go, I don't know what other requirements would make them "a challenge" or involve "dedication." If you mean requiring NM titles like a mythic, most people will/have beat/beaten Shinryuu simply for the atma/abyssite if not the gear.

Well the first problem is ToM. Yes it's good that there are a ton of reward paths you can take but ToM as a whole is a platform for lazy development. If empyrean weapons were just separated from ToM and put into proper quests it could work out a lot better. Let's look at what you are do now to get an empyrean to 85;

1)kill low level NM 3 times
2)kill low level NM 3 times
3)kill low level NM 3 times
4)kill low level NM 4 times
5)kill low level NM 4 times
6)kill low level NM 4 times
7)kill T1 VNM 6 times
8)kill T1 VNM 6 times
9)kill gray path T1 VNM 8 times
10) Turn in 50 Visions boss trophies
11) Turn in 50 Heroes boss trophies

That's a whole shit ton of meaningless redundancies. You can't tell me you actually enjoyed standing in some deadend zone waiting for your lottery NM when you could have been doing quests/content that would grant you immediate rewards and ultimately gain you an empyrean weapon. Quests/content like;

1)Obtaining a colored abyssite
2)Defeating Yilbegan
3)defeating Dawon
4)Clearing Walk of Echos( confluxes up to that release)
5)Defeating all Visions bosses
6)Gaining hero status in Visions zones
7)Defeating all Scars bosses
8)Gaining hero status in Scars zones
9)Winning bastion defensives in all Scars zones
10)Obtaining 60 Atmas
11)Obtaining all 6 demilune abysites



There's noting really wrong with the 1500 Heavy Metal Plates for the 95 trial. My only worry is that it's been 4 days since the update and no one has posted finding their location yet. If they're from voidwatch, that's fine. But considering no one has found them yet, or at least posted finding them yet, I would seem this trial will be a rather huge time-sink.

Perspective. There is plenty wrong with making a dumb new item that drops somewhere and saying "yeah collect 1,500 of these and be thankful we didn't make it 30,000 like alexandrite". Another problem is that this 1500 turn in shouldn't even be a surprise since the test server has been out for weeks. Why the flying fnck didn't anybody notice this earlier?

[noodles355]

All three weapons are a grind.
For mythic you grind out the Alexandrite, repeat assaults, Ichor and nyzul isle tokens.
For relic you grind out currancy.
For empyrean you grind out a few NMs.

Out of those, Mythics and Relics (moreso mythics) are the biggest grinds. Yet at 85 and 90, Empyreans were better than their mythic counterparts (with a few exceptions like Kenkonken and Ryunohige) for melee. Why does an "ultimate weapon" thats stronger beat another "ultimate weapon" that takes significantly more time?

As I said before, this is SEs way of leveling the playing field, to make the time:reward ratio more sensible. This is the cockblock that will leave most empyrean holders at 85 or 90. And that's good, because empyreans are not-much-time:one-hell-of-a-reward compared to relics and empyreans.

I hope shit continues to get harder. I'm bored of grinding out easy mode. Abyssea is just grinding out the gear I'm missing still, I'm kinda over it and want a challenge again.

[Buffy]

Perspective. There is plenty wrong with making a dumb new item that drops somewhere and saying "yeah collect 1,500 of these and be thankful we didn't make it 30,000 like alexandrite". Another problem is that this 1500 turn in shouldn't even be a surprise since the test server has been out for weeks. Why the flying fnck didn't anybody notice this earlier?

They did notice, but the test server was only open a couple weeks and it takes co-ordinated groups to reach the higher levels of voidwatch. No one really had time to get there.

[Kysaiana]

Yeah, I noticed it was 1,500 Heavy Metal Plates while on the test server. I didn't think it would be a huge deal since with a number like 1,500, it should be a fairly common drop. Especially since it's on every single empyrean. This does not seem to be the case, however.


1)Obtaining a colored abyssite
2)Defeating Yilbegan
3)defeating Dawon
4)Clearing Walk of Echos( confluxes up to that release)
5)Defeating all Visions bosses
6)Gaining hero status in Visions zones
7)Defeating all Scars bosses
8)Gaining hero status in Scars zones
9)Winning bastion defensives in all Scars zones
10)Obtaining 60 Atmas
11)Obtaining all 6 demilune abysites

I understand what you're trying to say. The quest could have been more inspired than "kill x mob y times" for ever single trial. However, with the exception of 1-4, everything you listed is a bi-product of obtaining something else in abyssea. So people don't need to be required to complete these tasks to obtain an empyrean. They also aren't repeatable for the most part, so additional empyreans would be very easy.

I'm not knocking your ideas. I'm just pointing out they don't really replace the trials in a very balanced way.

Relics, Mythics, and Empyreans all have their share of grinds. Mythic quests aren't better designed simply because they require fun content on top of said grind.

[Catsby]

Especially since it's on every single empyrean. This does not seem to be the case, however.

Looks like we need to start coming down harder and sooner on development.



I understand what you're trying to say. The quest could have been more inspired than "kill x mob y times" for ever single trial. However, with the exception of 1-4, everything you listed is a bi-product of obtaining something else in abyssea. So people don't need to be required to complete these tasks to obtain an empyrean. They also aren't repeatable for the most part, so additional empyreans would be very easy.


Well yeah it was just a thought I tossed out at the moment. The idea is that you aren't doing something completely redundant or counterproductive to the new content. I'm sure there are people out there that wanted to go get drops from (insert abyssea NM here) but couldn't because their trial NM was due and they were 2/3. This way you get drops, atma and another step closer to empyrean should you decided to complete the rest of the quest.

I don't really think a quest chain like this would be any less prohibitive than turning in another 100 drops. All you would have to do is change obtaining 60 unique atmas to turning in 60 unique atmas and it would be just about the same. As they are I don't think empyreans are really difficult to get (I have two) just mind numbingly boring. In my opinion the mythic and relic trials need to be toned down a bit since the quest results in a level 75 weapon and even by the standards back then it was way too hard to obtain.

[Catsby]

They did notice, but the test server was only open a couple weeks and it takes co-ordinated groups to reach the higher levels of voidwatch. No one really had time to get there.

Oh that's good. Let's open a test server to do large scale QA but not do large scale QA and release content regardless if it works or not :/

[Elexia]

That's a whole shit ton of meaningless redundancies. You can't tell me you actually enjoyed standing in some deadend zone waiting for your lottery NM when you could have been doing quests/content that would grant you immediate rewards and ultimately gain you an empyrean weapon. Quests/content like;

1)Obtaining a colored abyssite
2)Defeating Yilbegan
3)defeating Dawon
4)Clearing Walk of Echos( confluxes up to that release)
5)Defeating all Visions bosses
6)Gaining hero status in Visions zones
7)Defeating all Scars bosses
8)Gaining hero status in Scars zones
9)Winning bastion defensives in all Scars zones
10)Obtaining 60 Atmas
11)Obtaining all 6 demilune abysites


I would lay a carepackage of a hydrogen bomb in front of SE Japan if they did this. Also you speak of the original being redundancies, obtaining all VNM triggers is redundant as hell.

[Falseliberty]

"Whether or not they are "worth it" is a matter of personal opinion. There are probably people out there with the mythic katana or axe that are perfectly content with them."

idk man I spoke to owner of a katana and after he got it he said he was preety let down. major dissapointment

while i do agree more times than not its about the journey and not the destination, If i was driving to disney world and the park was closed I'd be sad panda

[Catsby]

"Whether or not they are "worth it" is a matter of personal opinion. There are probably people out there with the mythic katana or axe that are perfectly content with them."

idk man I spoke to owner of a katana and after he got it he said he was preety let down. major dissapointment

while i do agree more times than not its about the journey and not the destination, If i was driving to disney world and the park was closed I'd be sad panda

Yup yup. The important thing is that the drive can be fun if it's designed to be and the park doesn't have to be closed(Mickey could even be there at the gate to shake your hand and give you a mouse head shaped balloon).

[Catsby]

obtaining all VNM triggers is redundant as hell.

as redundant as building and killing bukhis 25-50 times? also, it was an example I whipped up with what was available at the time. I'm sure I could make something better or amazing even but that would require me to be reborn JP and get hired onto the dev team.

[Zagen]

1)kill low level NM 3 times
2)kill low level NM 3 times
3)kill low level NM 3 times
4)kill low level NM 4 times
5)kill low level NM 4 times
6)kill low level NM 4 times
7)kill T2 VNM 6 times
8)kill T2 VNM 6 times
9)kill gray path T2 VNM 8 times
10) Turn in 50 Visions NM trophies
11) Turn in 50 Scares NM trophies


Your list had a few mistakes for Emp to 85.

[Catsby]

Your list had a few mistakes for Emp to 85.

Right, thanks.

[MarkovChain]

Facepalm. You have to bring 18 persons, half of the peeps get single plates. You need 1500. There is NO chance that a LS will be able to collect from all other members because the treasure pool is individual so you will need to do exactly 1500x2 fights and use exactly 3000 stones on each char. Wtf is this.

[Arcon]

Facepalm. You have to bring 18 persons, half of the peeps get single plates. You need 1500. There is NO chance that a LS will be able to collect from all other members because the treasure pool is individual so you will need to do exactly 1500x2 fights and use exactly 3000 stones on each char. Wtf is this.

That, by itself, sounds incredibly retarded. I'm guessing it will come down to the pouches, how many they give and how to obtain them. 99 per pouch would make the whole thing a lot more feasible.

[MarkovChain]

yeah keep dreaming that pouches will be easier to get and will yield 99 ^^.

[Gokku]

highly doubt it im betting on it being salvage style 20 max per pouch , and in 2-3 updates they will admit it was unrealistic and lower it to 500

[Runespider]

Thing I don't get is, Emps right now are massively overpowered in easy to clear trials. They add a stupidly hard and long trial now for 90-95 (seemingly) and the upgrade is junk, why bother? You can keep your emp at 85 and be almost the same as someone with a 95 emp.

I understand they are trying to make FFXI have more longevity again and that means back to the old horrible ways but this is update is filled with nonsense. They are making us work far harder to get upgrades/new gear and spells in this update and they are almost all vastly weaker than what we've got before.

Has anyone actually obtained any plates yet btw? I've yet to see any confirmed drops still.

[Gokku]

http://i.imgur.com/32G2z.png

from BG

and 10-1 they are tying to buy time and keep people from flying there the new "content"

[Aver]

http://i.imgur.com/32G2z.png

from BG

and 10-1 they are tying to buy time and keep people from flying there the new "content"

See: FFXIV and surplus.

[Monchat]

or FFIV: crafting. How to reach max smithing level? craft 2000+ of the same recipe over and over.

Right now if this only comes from VW, nobody will be able to get 1500 on their own, which means like alexandrite, you' ll have to buy.

[detlef]

Someone on my server was bazaaring a HMP for 1m. Not that it's worth that much or that somebody would buy, but can you imagine? 1.5 billion for your level 95 empy.

[Gokku]

Someone on my server was bazaaring a HMP for 1m. Not that it's worth that much or that somebody would buy, but can you imagine? 1.5 billion for your level 95 empy.
JP's... JP's will pay it... and ill love them for it.

[Neonii]

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

Ok so help me understand the Emps were supposed to appeal to the more casual player or not?

[Runespider]

Right now if this only comes from VW, nobody will be able to get 1500 on their own, which means like alexandrite, you' ll have to buy.

so many people have emps, it will be a long long long time before anyone sells them.

[Malacite]

Honestly, I'm more pissed at this point that the jump from 90 to 95 is absolutely trivial in terms of performance gained.

At least the 90's all got decently improved stats, but the 95's are just a complete slap in the face for the effort required. This update just reeks of laziness on SE's part and I for one, think I'm finally done with this game.

I never thought I'd see the day where XIV is looking more promising than XI.

[Elexia]

It's pretty much how I called it. The killing part is, people will still do the trial, someone or a few people will get 1500 plates, SE will see this and figured players will do anything they throw at us.

Just like if no mythics were completed, they'd have long adjusted it. While they do have to space content out, I really do think they throw a random number out there for certain things >.>

While Emps are in no way hard, just annoying IE CHORLIS PATH, but there's realistically zero reason to have to collect 175 items. I item from each is enough at the end of the day.

1500 I bet if not serious was just a filler number no one can do in the time it takes them to complete the next set of content, then it will be 1200 plates.

[Hayward]

Ok so help me understand the Emps were supposed to appeal to the more casual player or not?

Truth be told, I don't think S-E themselves are sure about this anymore. I sensed the curveball at around the 85 cap rise when they required Scars NM items and then stuck it to Bards and Paladins with the Iron Plate/Colorless Soul conditions for their trials.

[Arcon]

Honestly, I'm more pissed at this point that the jump from 90 to 95 is absolutely trivial in terms of performance gained.

At least the 90's all got decently improved stats, but the 95's are just a complete slap in the face for the effort required. This update just reeks of laziness on SE's part and I for one, think I'm finally done with this game.

Many people keep saying that, but honestly I don't think that's true. I object to the 1500 Heavy Metal plates needed, because that's a completely insane number, but the increase of the stats itself, I have no problem with. I'm pretty sure they did this on purpose to even the playing field between Emps, Mythics and Relics, and in that regard, it's quite a success.

Also, remember that this is just for Lv95. The boost at Lv99 might be quite large again, which means, everyone will try to do this still when that time comes. And I'm still finding it hard to believe that our current knowledge is the only way to obtain the plates. Either there's another way we're not aware of yet, or SE just screwed up on the requirements and will fix it sometime soon, because at the current rate it's just unrealistic.

[noodles355]

All the trials of the magian weapons got sweet f*ck all for upgrades this update, it's not just empyreans. Most only got like a few DMG+, cure pot staff got 1% potency, the str/dex/agi/etc weapons only got +2 to the stat and no extra pdt/acc/att etc.

[Sparthos]

Dear SE,

You meant 150 plates instead of 1500.

[Hayward]

All the trials of the magian weapons got sweet f*ck all for upgrades this update, it's not just empyreans. Most only got like a few DMG+, cure pot staff got 1% potency, the str/dex/agi/etc weapons only got +2 to the stat and no extra pdt/acc/att etc.

That's really the strange part of all of this. OK, 40 geodes isn't that big a deal except for Flame Geodes (where's the heat, S-E? At least up the drop rates during the matching days), but it really makes no sense to have so little return for the requirements given. I am dreading to find out the Avatar leg's requirement for Staff Trials.

[Habiki]

All the trials of the magian weapons got sweet f*ck all for upgrades this update, it's not just empyreans. Most only got like a few DMG+, cure pot staff got 1% potency, the str/dex/agi/etc weapons only got +2 to the stat and no extra pdt/acc/att etc.

The sword line only got +1 to stats.

[Nynja]

Geode drop rate is tied to weather actually...