Shock Squall

[Clou777]

Its a bloodpact WARD and it has a much faster charge time than all the other BPs

[Granny]

lol 90-95 and all smn gets is erasega and stunga, and last 20 levels not one new damage bp. smn sure has gotten the shaft as far as the level cap increases are concerned.

[Neonii]

Yep and the smn boards are so dry it shows. Not many excited about smn. I would really like to ask the head summoner why.

[Soranika]

A stark realization came to me last night when I was leveling in a small group with my ls at abyssea - altepa. Was only a few of us and to stop from bothering getting in a party full of potential fools, we just went off on the orbs right next to doll camp. The others was mostly just leeching exp while I got bored and knocked off a few trying to increase my smn magic (a failed effort btw.... ; ; Hate trying to recap it.) But the BLM was pumming out -ga and -ja spells without without even bothering to use MAB atma, instead using all refresh atma and he was killing in two spells, three tops at 91.

Was even more embarrassed when I decided to use Odin on a pull and only killed two while he offed the other 10-13ish of them. Why are we able to summon the gods of vana'diel and still suffer as third rate magic DD. D:

[Imakun]

Did Shock Squall retain the horrible Stun visual effect it had on test server or was it changed to something more fitting to Ramuh and lightning?

[Dallas]

Sora, what are you using for atma? Just checking that you upgraded to match your new toy.

[Soranika]

Sora, what are you using for atma? Just checking that you upgraded to match your new toy.
Relevance? SD, VV, RR.

No, it basically still has the same stun effect as the other mages. SE getting lazy with SMN again.

[Dallas]

Relevance?
Relevant to your post. You used physical atma and complained about being a third rate magic DD. I think I know how to solve that!

:P

[Soranika]

Relevant to your post. You used physical atma and complained about being a third rate magic DD. I think I know how to solve that!

:P
You asked what I use to match my new 'toy', Hvergelmir. A weapon I would not use with MAB atma using magical blood pacts given better choices without gimping myself inside abyssea, and very little merit outside when trying to increase damage of our breadwinners, the avatars. I was basically one shotting surveyors, but beside the point in comparison to mage jobs that rely on offensive magic without even using MAB atma, which proves they can still do ridiculous damage outside of abyssea. Last I checked, summoner fit under being mages as well as a pet job, regardless of blood pacts being physical or magical if you want to sit there and split hairs on terminology.

[Dallas]

Well, yeah. The solution is to not use magic DD. And get rid of Sea Daughter, that gimps both of you.

We've always been better "solo DD." Physical pacts just synergize better.

:P

[Soranika]

You missed the point entirely...

[Dallas]

Why compare yourself to BLM at all? Even WAR is a better analogy.

[Zemarin]

Why are we able to summon the gods of vana'diel and still suffer as third rate magic DD. D:

Cause in every previous Final Fantasy the Summons Played the most important/gamebreakingly part of the game, so SE decided for this game they dont want that. Now that this game has veered off its 75 cap course the devs decided it would be best to turn smn into an elemental (magic) based entity.

But to be fair most game that feature blm/wizards/whatever... they always do the most Magic Damage especially in AoE... so for it to not be true in this game would be breaking the laws of MMORPGS.

In a simple statement Summoner's lack luster because of lack of depth in their summons, no summon plays a particular role or gives much advantage over the next or have situations where one would be more useful than the other, except for their element. Their normal attacks are all slow all do the same boring blunt dmg.. Only difference is the BP which can only be used once ever so often. And avatars (in this game) are no Gods. Smn's only con is their damage is essentially hateless, therefore you can expect them to never put out high damage ever.


Why compare yourself to BLM at all? Even WAR is a better analogy.

Cause BLM and Summoner are both mages, that use MP to do magic damage/magical support regardless of whether if BP are physical damage. Blue spells do physical damage and are still spells they are still Magic and still cost MP. The fact that it costs MP to do what would be consider burst Damage makes smn a mage... not a "melee"

War is nothing like smn and smn is nothing like war. a Bst has mor in common with war then a smn can ever hope... It would make sense if summoner did High single target dmg and blm high AoE dmg, but summoners don't even do that.

[Dallas]

Sorry, but if you want to be a mage, you picked the wrong job. Only ONE of your "spells" deals damage. It's only usable as a 2-hour.

[Razushu]

Sorry, but if you want to be a mage, you picked the wrong job. Only ONE of your "spells" deals damage. It's only usable as a 2-hour.

And if you wanted to be WAR(like you clearly do Ukon jealous is an ugly thing), you're definitely on the wrong job. Lets see, physical weakness? Check. Cloth Armour? Check. Mage job traits? Check. Mage weapon? Check. Oh yeah we're definitely not a mage.

SMN is much more easily compared to BLM, we share alot of traits and gear/weapon types.

[Soranika]

And this is the reason why I didn't respond to this comparison to a war comment. ~_~ Would be better comparing to other pet jobs (DRG, BST, and PUP) which all are competent at both maintaining their pets and being on the front lines if needed. Last I remember summoners all across the series have been considered mage by class and equipment, SMN here are no difference.

[Dallas]

Of course it is smarter to compare pet jobs. BLM isn't a pet job so clearly we can drop all pretense of smart. SMN uses abilities and melee damage, so BLM is the stupidest choice for comparison.

[Soranika]

Better =/= Smarter. Just because several of our blood pacts deal physical damage does not escape the fact that avatars are magical entities and these attacks are fueled by our MP. What about our merited blood pacts and our other blood pacts with additional effects? The vast difference between SMN and other pet jobs is that BST, PUP, and DRK are melee in nature with pet as their extensions. It doesn't matter how you play SMN, SMN is not by any means a melee job and can't be compared to them.

Have you taken the time to notice that many of same pieces BLM, as well as several other mage jobs, equip the very same equipment. What specific equipment do SMN share with BST, PUP, and DRK? Herder's Subligar... and what else?

[Dallas]

Yes, in fact I did notice a lot of gear that is a waste of space for SMN, that's why i recommended the stats now on the moepapa stone. Wear all the magic attack you want. The best you can hope to be is half a melee pet job and not an ounce BLM.

Be the best you can be. Shoot for the dirt!

[Vortex]

It is not possible for smn to be "half" or any sort of a "meele" at all what are you not understanding? SMN is a "mage" just because they have a staff does not make them a meele, Pets doing "physcial" damage is not claissifed as "meele"

when SMN has No MP they can't do ANYTHING.

[Dallas]

Pets meleeing is classified as melee. Anyone not meleeing with their pet is doing less damage than someone whose pet is meleeing. SE does not reward you for doing less damage, and neither will I.

[Soranika]

Was gonna say something but... must... not... feed... trolls. D: Screw this crap. Blocking. I can't read anymore ignorance without indisputable proof of claim. I've said some stupid things but... gawd.

[Dallas]

SMN must be the only job to attract such math illiterate blowhards that need proof that (pick any number greater than zero) > 0.

[Malamasala]

Nah, it is just that their math is limited to "Any number < WAR max damage = gimp and not worth it".

[Razushu]

Nah, it is just that their math is limited to "Any number < WAR max damage = gimp and not worth it".

It's closer to if x < WAR's DMG*0.25 while TP feed >= WAR's*0.75 = gimp and not worth it XD

[Clou777]

Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
2. Not a meleeXD

3. Not main heal

[Dallas]

Nah, it is just that their math is limited to "Any number < WAR max damage = gimp and not worth it".

Why do they try to do damage at all? That's what I want to know. "I know!" /macrobuttonpush "I'm a DD!"

[Razushu]

3. Not main heal

Lol I thought that went without saying, nothing but WHM is accepted to main heal anymore.

[Tannlore]

It's closer to if x < WAR's DMG*0.25 while TP feed >= WAR's*0.75 = gimp and not worth it XD

Raz I Wanna put that as my sig! Awesome. :D

[Razushu]

Raz I Wanna put that as my sig! Awesome. :D

Go for it, but do it quick before I copyright it.(I'll mass produce T-shirts with it on and milllions of gi... euros)

[Dallas]

LOL, math illiteracy at its finest, Tann. Be careful! I believe for a non-meleer like that guy, the correct numbers are:

"It's closer to if x < WAR's DMG*0.15 while TP feed >= WAR's*0.24 = gimp and not worth it XD"

The rest of his party includes a DNC, BRD, and WHM, as I recall, because the WAR actually takes up 4 slots. Of course, the number of cowards "terrified of TP gain in situations they'd bring a fully hasted WAR" may equal the number of SMN "who refuse to melee in any situation because they'll die from any random sneeze."

[Razushu]

LOL, math illiteracy at its finest, Tann. Be careful! I believe for a non-meleer like that guy, the correct numbers are:

"It's closer to if x < WAR's DMG*0.15 while TP feed >= WAR's*0.24 = gimp and not worth it XD"

The rest of his party includes a DNC, BRD, and WHM, as I recall, because the WAR actually takes up 4 slots. Of course, the number of cowards "terrified of TP gain in situations they'd bring a fully hasted WAR" may equal the number of SMN "who refuse to melee in any situation because they'll die from any random sneeze."

In that equation the DMG:TP feed ratio is 3:5, that's pretty gimp still lol the damage gained is less than the extra mob TP moves. You're feed nearly x2 as much TP as you do DMG, which is you know bad.

You do realise that an unsupported WAR would still destroy a SMN in a parse right, like completely destroy wouldn't even be a contest. It would be like watching a Basset Hound trying to keep up at a dog race. Losing that support would bring the WAR down from Awesome-> Great, and a SMN from bad->Pitiful.

[Soranika]

Curious... Would you melee in Voidwatch, Dallas?

[Ophannus]

I mean SMN is still very powerful and notice BP damage is much more consistant on HNM than other things. In WoE where BLMs are getting heavy 1/16 resists for 100 dmg on a Fire V I see Thunderstorm/Wind Blade doing consistant 500-1k dmg. In abyssea Heavnly Strike does a consistent and hateless 4.5kish dmg which is pretty good, better than RDMs nukes and set proc can make it do up to like 8k dmg

[Dallas]

Curious... Would you melee in Voidwatch, Dallas?

If you want to know if I have common sense, the answer is yes, I have common sense. It depends on the mob. If you are asking if I would be caught dead in an event that drops nothing for me, the answer is no. No mob I fight will be in VW for a long time.

I'm working on Dynamis, and yes, I melee.

[Razushu]

If you want to know if I have common sense, the answer is yes, I have common sense. It depends on the mob. If you are asking if I would be caught dead in an event that drops nothing for me, the answer is no. No mob I fight will be in VW for a long time.

I'm working on Dynamis, and yes, I melee.

You melee in Dynamis?!?!! Oh God I... I didn't know... I take it all back, I'm sorry melee Summoner is great and you're one tough bad*ss.

[Babekeke]

Was gonna say something but... must... not... feed... trolls. D: Screw this crap. Blocking. I can't read anymore ignorance without indisputable proof of claim. I've said some stupid things but... gawd.

Been on my ignore list for over 2 months now^^

[Kaych]

Been on my ignore list for over 2 months now^^
Ty so much ^^
I didnt know there was a ignore list ^_-

[gheldhart]

Before we complain too much about the actual blood pacts, let's wait to see what we get at level 99. Perhaps that will be a game changer? If not, commence the complaining!!

[Soranika]

Uh... it's worth saying that we're past the complaining part now that we have it for like... a while now.

[gheldhart]

It's true, i've also done my fair share of complaining. I honestly don't see why such an epic class like summoner is one of the weaker and useless classes in the game. It makes no sense given the history of the job. All i'm saying is, maybe SE wanted us to suffer til 99 before we are epic?! I don't know. I mean, they tried to give us a bit of a boost with the Merit (2) abilities, but they didn't exactly pan out that great. I just don't see SE actually making any significant changes to summoner, it doesn't seem that important to them. They'd rather please the samurai's, ninja's and the warriors. I still like the class, but it's just not what it should be, kind of a let down.

[Dekusuta]

SMN were epic briefly with Odin and Alexander and elemental siphon.

As I noted in my Stout Servant thread, our losing ground isn't due to our lack of power. We're still the #1 go to job for a lot of NMs because of our ability to be fairly low maintenance and summoning avatars in perpetuity and the avatar's still decent damage output.

What has seen a huge imbalance is 1) our abilities - majority of the wards we got since the level cap are useless or very situational and the Rage pacts we got came too early, and for pets rarely used and are too weak by BP2 merit standards

2) Other jobs have increased exponentially in power. Beastmasters is a good example. Even pups got Dues Ex Machina allowing them to resummon their pets ad infinitum. We haven't had the same job changing change in the last 20 levels.

The only positive development for SMN has been the MP regen and -perp from gear available has far outstripped the perp cost, allowing even modestly geared SMN to get 2-3 MP per tick.

It's likely there will be a new tier of Rage pacts at 99 so we could well see a latent reward for SMN.

Edit: Merit2s are pretty powerful and even more powerful if you decide to take it to tier 5 and gear and merit your SMN properly. Inside and outside Abysssea. They are your #1 nukes. With +12 MAB trial staff, +10 MAB from merits and +6 MAB from neck and waist.