Inconsiderate!

[Zatias]

OK, first off, I am not posting this thread to complain. I simply want to poll people's opinions and find out if I am in the wrong. So if you're coming in here with a lighter and a bag of fresh poop, please step out.

This has happened the majority of the times of farming Dynamis. We're in for a good 40min-1hr, and a group shows up and camps over us. When I search the zone, there is usually only a few other people (not including my group and the overcamping group) so it's not an issue of congestion.

Am I the only one who finds this very inconsiderate? I mean sure, if the whole zone was full, I could understand if the group had no where else to go. But camping over the only other group in the zone?

It's like going into a movie theater, and you see only 2 people sitting in the back. You have the option to sit anywhere, and you sit right near them. It's creepy.

Most of the groups' excuses are, that they camp there every time, which is generally a weak excuse. I could say the same, and that my group was there first. It's not about where you usually camp, it's seeing a group is already camping there, but you choose to overcamp. If I see some group or even a soloer at my usual camp, I choose a different one.

If you see a car parked in your usual spot, do you push it out of the way with your car or key it because it's in YOUR spot? No, you find a different one. If your answer is yes to this question, then you need mental help XD

That's my opinion on this matter.

Inb4 just move and find a new camp then. That's usually what I end up doing if the group doesn't move.

That's not the point of this thread; I want to know how people feel about overcamping players that were there first.

Is it inconsiderate or justifiable? What do you all think?

[Korpg]

Welcome to Human Nature 101, where everyone is ***.

Don't expect kindness from your fellow strangers, they will most likely kick you while you are down and take your wallet afterwards.

[Greatguardian]

It's just a math problem. If the spot is good enough such that farming there with competition is better than farming elsewhere without competition, then it's worth it to fight for a spot. This is especially true when the relative skill of the groups is tilted in the favor of the "invader".

Invading a camp where you would be worse off than if you had just taken an empty camp elsewhere is just stupid, though.

Do I consider it rude? Not really. No one has any sort of singular claim to any zone or monsters. It's rarely personal. People will simply act in the best interests of their group.

[Dragoy]

If you see a car parked in your usual spot, do you push it out of the way with your car or key it because it's in YOUR spot? No, you find a different one. If your answer is yes to this question, then you need mental help XD
Haha. :]


It is a bit rude, yes, since they obviously see you are there first.

Of course, they have the right to do so, since it's a kind of a 'free-for-all' system.
I haven't really done group things like this for a long time, though, so just as you mentioned, I would also just move elsewhere, or if I see another person/group at where I am going and can't really team up, I'll just go somewhere else.

Competing with other players is not why I ever played Final Fantasy XI, there are other games for that, and I never really saw FFXI as one of them, what comes to regular came-play.
Only time I really have been fighting for a monster is Charybdis (or Chabit as Icream would call it), back when it really mattered.
Gotta say that while I really don't like that aspect of this game, it did feel really good to win over the many likely botters and whatnots, and vanquish the foe even. Still, since it is a non-PvP environment, this kind of things are not a plus in my opinion.

But I digress.

As you feel, I feel; it is a bit rude but well, that's what the game allows and is, and there's not much we can do about it but the best way I have found to get over it is to just not waste energy into being frustrated, or even angry about it.


I'll stop now, before I go over yonder. ^^
Just some thoughts~

[Rearden]

Good thing you can go 7 days a week

[Zatias]

Guys come on, keep personal attacks out of this ;/

And yes you can go 7 times a week. That's why I said I wasn't complaining, I was wondering why people are camping over me when the zone is otherwise empty.

[Gokku]

its the same as stealing abyssea NM's that go yellow. fair game suck it up and deal with it , if your killing effectivly no other group will bother you. ill openly admit if i see gimp players doing an semi defficult fight i stop and wait for them to *** up, Eve has been good to me with that free speed feet free ocelot gloves <3 charm and death breaths.

[katz]

If you want manners and politeness, there are very few players left who still have standards set. Most are grab what I can crowds and dont care who they walk over to get it. Its the mob mentality that SE seem to encourage.

[Zatias]

So, if you see a small group farming you bring your whole LS of 18+ people and camp over them because you can kill faster than them?

On the other hand, "stealing" a yellow NM isn't really "stealing". If the group *** up, they *** up, and we can't let that NM depop now can we? (http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ss/full/0wBwYUFQ28HAUyS4.png)

[katz]

I would prefer the mob to depop than for me to have done all the hard work and someone else take it at 1% as I was raising up to kill it again......

[Greatguardian]

You do what is best for your group. If the competition presented by an inferior group, whether it be numerical inferiority or skill-based inferiority, does not impede your own progress sufficiently to make an alternate camp a better option, then yes it is in the best interests of the group to overtake the inferior group.

If it is better/easier to just find an alternate camp, that is the best thing for the group. It's not a matter of being malicious, it's just a matter of weighing all possible options and doing what is best for you and yours.

I'm being straight up. Generally, it's just plain easier and better overall to take an uncontested camp where you won't have to deal with fighting over monsters. Fighting in these situations is just stupid. However, there are times where either the alternatives are terrible, or the squatting group presents such a minimal threat that competition is the best route.

No group has a sovereign claim to any one camp or monster for the sake of being there first. If another group wishes to compete, they have the same opportunity available to them to drive the invading group out. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. Either way, it's no one else' fault.

[Rearden]

I would prefer the mob to depop than for me to have done all the hard work and someone else take it at 1% as I was raising up to kill it again......

There's your problem, you were raising up.

[katz]

I dont see it as a problem that I could solo the mob to 99% only for some Linkshell to steal it....Just proves Im better than they are they have to steal from solo players.

[Rearden]

If you died you didn't solo it

[Greatguardian]

When you lose claim, you lose rights. End of story. Want to keep claim? Don't die. Screw up and die? Expect to lose your NM, and be bloody well thankful if you're lucky enough to keep it.

[katz]

And if it had depopped they couldnt have stolen it.... I would make all the mobs you target depop for someone else to start again, when you die rather than giving them weakened mobs, because you damn well know they aint going to invite you to finish your mob.

[Gokku]

equate it to the sobek i stole from a weakened nin who thought it was smart to mijin in front of me , i voked that *** as soon as it went yellow didnt even need the skins. next time he goes to mijin and NM he gonna make sure the whm casts a spell. never EVER let your NM's go yellow or your asking for it.

[katz]

You seem to think there is nothing wrong in stealing other peoples mobs. Even at 1% I could tank it weakened and kill it what gives you the right to steal my pop.

[Gokku]

I dont see it as a problem that I could solo the mob to 99% only for some Linkshell to steal it....Just proves Im better than they are they have to steal from solo players.

yes no one had a right to steal the sandworm nm for glavoid that i zombie'd the last 20% of after it hit me with a 3k gorge. if your gonan risk low-manning or fighting any mob prone to go white * HELLO Crien * then you need to either

A. learn to play and make friends who can play also

B. pull that *** to the middle of no where and hide it from people.


You seem to think there is nothing wrong in stealing other peoples mobs. Even at 1% I could tank it weakened and kill it what gives you the right to steal my pop.

this reminds me of Nibbg @ tiamat after he dared my ls to steal Tia then gm called when we had it spinning around after pulling hate. eventually @ 10% they slipped up we stole it and you know what the GM who had been watching for an hour said? FAIR GAME IT WAS YELLOW

other people are not responsible or obligated to baby you and your actions you wiped you payed the consequence , none of this aww its ok you can try again this isnt kirbys epic yarn.

[katz]

stealing is stealing no matter what it is. You steal therefore you are a thf and not worthy of listening to. Just because something is there doesnt make it yours to take from someone else. "I see a car with keys in, I drive it away, Im not stealing it, they were foolish to leave the keys in it." try telling that to a judge.

[Zatias]

Funny to mention that, because I always thought that going away with your door wide open was an invitation stating "Steal everything in here".

Theft can be the victim's fault.

[Greatguardian]

You seem to think there is nothing wrong in stealing other peoples mobs. Even at 1% I could tank it weakened and kill it what gives you the right to steal my pop.

When you die, it's not yours any more.

Edit:

Funny to mention that, because I always thought that going away with your door wide open was an invitation stating "Steal everything in here".

Theft can be the victim's fault.

It's not even this. This is an MMO. When an item is in your inventory, it is yours. When you expend that item in order to spawn a monster, the claim on that monster is yours. When you lose that claim, it is no longer "Your" monster. It is a monster, with no claim.

Spamming cure on a tank and forcefully removing claim from another group? That's stealing.

Taking an unclaimed monster? That's just normal. You're not taking it from anyone at all. No one owns it, as the original owner lost their right to it when they lost claim.

There is no victim. There is no theft.

[Gokku]

if theres a law that says leaving your keys in the car means its free for anyone to drive , you bet your ASS id spend my free time @ a dealership waiting for someone to *** up and so would millions of others.

ITT: I MAD I CANT SOLO

[katz]

Its not that I cant solo, its the right to solo was taken away when they should not have the mob for free. If i die fair game the mob depops and someone else tries. What I disagree is the mob staying and you killing it at 1%.

[Korpg]

As much as I will hate this, I will have to agree with the BG crowd on this one. If you fail at 1%, don't cry when somebody takes it at 1% after you died. Only complain when somebody curebombs and steals your mob at 10% or less, and complain to a GM, not a forum.


stealing is stealing no matter what it is. You steal therefore you are a thf and not worthy of listening to. Just because something is there doesnt make it yours to take from someone else. "I see a car with keys in, I drive it away, Im not stealing it, they were foolish to leave the keys in it." try telling that to a judge.

I dropped a $20 on the ground without realizing. You walk up a few minutes later and see that $20. Are you going to leave it there in hopes that nobody but me picks it up or are you going to pocket that $20 and bless your good luck that day?

See, I can add real life situations too.

Point being, you failed at soloing a mob, don't expect people to sit by and letting the mob depop.

[katz]

When you die, it's not yours any more.
And it is no one elses either. Thats the point I made.

[Korpg]

And it is no one elses either. Thats the point I made.

Says who?bleh

[Halbert]

Pretty sure that "Unclaimed" (yellow) meant NOT claimed by anyone.... last I checked my understanding of the word.

[Gokku]

Its not that I cant solo, its the right to solo was taken away when they should not have the mob for free. If i die fair game the mob depops and someone else tries. What I disagree is the mob staying and you killing it at 1%.

the right wasn't taken away YOU lost it when you died, depop or not. i promise you would be making the exact opposite argument if mobs did depop you would be crying about how apoc is useless if things depop and they dont give you a chance to recover.

[katz]

As much as I will hate this, I will have to agree with the BG crowd on this one. If you fail at 1%, don't cry when somebody takes it at 1% after you died. Only complain when somebody curebombs and steals your mob at 10% or less, and complain to a GM, not a forum.



I dropped a $20 on the ground without realizing. You walk up a few minutes later and see that $20. Are you going to leave it there in hopes that nobody but me picks it up or are you going to pocket that $20 and bless your good luck that day?

See, I can add real life situations too.

Point being, you failed at soloing a mob, don't expect people to sit by and letting the mob depop.

if i saw you drop it, id return it because im not a thf.

[Zatias]

If you wiped to an NM and an LS takes it, kills it, then pops another and kills it easily... did you still feel bad about doing all the "hard work" for them? It would just be a popset going to waste if they didn't grab it.

Back on topic, thanks everyone for your input. To be clear though, it wasn't about claiming a camp. This isn't oldschool EXP, it's limited where competition can indeed waste people's time... on both sides.

Going through the whole zone and camping on one other party still spells inconsiderate to me.

Also taking the slept BST pet and killing it out of spite so the master can charm the other party is mean. Don't do that.

;P~

[katz]

cant steal in ffxi because you dont even own you character. hence why you can not sell your ffxi account it does not belong to you it belongs to SE.


id love to see you argue that.
Im sure Thf get a steal ability in SE so where do you think you cant steal from.....

[Vold]

Before this is inevitably locked:


stealing is stealing no matter what it is. You steal therefore you are a thf and not worthy of listening to. Just because something is there doesnt make it yours to take from someone else. "I see a car with keys in, I drive it away, Im not stealing it, they were foolish to leave the keys in it." try telling that to a judge.I wonder if you would hold the same ideals outside of Abyssea. I wonder if you wouldn't take someone else's Nidhogg pop in less than 1.68 seconds after they lolwiped. I wonder if you would let a Kirin depop. Or anything even remotely desirable to kill in this day and age for whatever reason. I'm willing to bet no because it's not as simple as visiting the AH to buy pop items for a NM outside of Abyssea.

Let's be real here. Your group is going to take these pops if people wiped on them. You might be nice enough to offer something out of the kill so long as it's not the drops you're after(and you might even let a Abyssea NM depop to avoid drama because it's really no big loss), but you are never going to stand there and watch a force spawn HNM depop after someone else wiped to it. You know the value of the spawn and you're going to take it long before you watch it despawn with no chance of the other group recovering(nevermind that there are encounters where you can recover just fine while weakened, I have to do it constantly on Suz when it chainspells my ass dead with -ga III instead of using other spells)

My point is, part of the player base seems to have this false belief that Abyssea content is somehow excluded from the normal rules of engagement because they can recover from a wipe, and that's what's going on here with you. I challenge you to admit all of the above. Admit it to earn some respect. If people want to have the viewpoint that you do, that's all fine and dandy(It's even a matter of opinion whether or not it's the right or wrong viewpoint)............






..........as long as they are truthful about how that viewpoint changes the instant they step out of Abyssea.

[Yugl]

"If I can't have it, then no one can" is the most unrecognized form of elitism in FFXI.

[katz]

Before this is inevitably locked:

I wonder if you would hold the same ideals outside of Abyssea. I wonder if you wouldn't take someone else's Nidhogg pop in less than 1.68 seconds after they lolwiped. I wonder if you would let a Kirin depop. Or anything even remotely desirable to kill in this day and age for whatever reason. I'm willing to bet no because it's not as simple as visiting the AH to buy pop items for a NM outside of Abyssea.

Let's be real here. Your group is going to take these pops if people wiped on them. You might be nice enough to offer something out of the kill so long as it's not the drops you're after(and you might even let a Abyssea NM depop to avoid drama because it's really no big loss), but you are never going to stand there and watch a force spawn HNM depop after someone else wiped to it. You know the value of the spawn and you're going to take it long before you watch it despawn with no chance of the other group recovering(nevermind that there are encounters where you can recover just fine while weakened, I have to do it constantly on Suz when it chainspells my ass dead with -ga III instead of using other spells)

My point is, part of the player base seems to have this false belief that Abyssea content is somehow excluded from the normal rules of engagement because they can recover from a wipe, and that's what's going on here with you. I challenge you to admit all of the above. Admit it to earn some respect. If people want to have the viewpoint that you do, that's all fine and dandy(It's even a matter of opinion whether or not it's the right or wrong viewpoint)............






..........as long as they are truthful about how that viewpoint changes the instant they step out of Abyssea.
To cut a long story short, why not let it depop, its not yours. No matter how much something is worth if you steal it, its still stealing.

[Yugl]

To cut a long story short, why not let it depop, its not yours. No matter how much something is worth if you steal it, its still stealing.

Because letting mobs depop damages society?

Edit: Oh look, Korpg is getting firsthand experience at how people feel about him.

[Korpg]

To cut a long story short, why not let it depop, its not yours. No matter how much something is worth if you steal it, its still stealing.

Which is the crux of the whole argument, you do not know the proper definition of ownership.

[katz]

Some people seem to think they have to "share" everything in the game. When you see the original topic of why do people lock down items and shout for other people to help, maybe with everyone here thinking its ok to take someone elses mobs you can now see why people want to lock down items. Its basically get a bigger group together so no one steals the mob from them. Once you have your group it becomes less likely to require skilled players because the larger the group the less likely the mob will be claimed by someone else. Now you see why the shouts lock down items and people become very me me me about property.

[Greatguardian]

People make large groups because random, crappy players are incapable of doing things in small numbers.

Any skilled duo can claim whatever monster they want without the aid of third party tools, if all they're facing is an army of troglodytes.

[Korpg]

Some people seem to think they have to "share" everything in the game. When you see the original topic of why do people lock down items and shout for other people to help, maybe with everyone here thinking its ok to take someone elses mobs you can now see why people want to lock down items. Its basically get a bigger group together so no one steals the mob from them. Once you have your group it becomes less likely to require skilled players because the larger the group the less likely the mob will be claimed by someone else. Now you see why the shouts lock down items and people become very me me me about property.

It isn't about locking down items, it is about being the most efficient with your time, since time is the one thing in Abyssea you don't have unlimited access to. Sure, you can end your Abyssea run at 900+ minutes, but those minutes will eventually run out. That is why smaller groups outperform larger groups because you can kill the same NMs in the same amount of time, but you can get done quicker with 5-6 people than you would with 18 people.

If you lost, you lost. Why do you care if anyone else takes the mob you lost to and beats it? Point being, you still lost it. You lost the pop set it took to pop it, you lost the opportunity to have the items, you lost the opportunity to have the key items in question. Just learn from your mistakes, try again, or try again with more/better people.

[katz]

I play on xbox no chance of 3rd party tools there.... The point was, as I repeat it again, if you pop an nm, and you have put all the hard work into getting the pops either from buying the items or farming the items and you lose thats no big problem. The problem is when you havent lost and are prepared to carry on, why should another party claim the weakened mob. Im not stopping them killing A mob, just not a weakened one popped by someone else outside their group.

[Gokku]

I play on xbox no chance of 3rd party tools there.... The point was, as I repeat it again, if you pop an nm, and you have put all the hard work into getting the pops either from buying the items or farming the items and you lose thats no big problem. The problem is when you havent lost and are prepared to carry on, why should another party claim the weakened mob. Im not stopping them killing A mob, just not a weakened one popped by someone else outside their group.
#1 solution to your problem the little button "CALL FOR HELP" years ago my social ls went to try and kill Cerberus with 6 people since it had been up for 4 hours. The "HNM" ls's showed up stole it from us wiped we stole it back and when we were just about to wipe i had my ls CFH on it why? cuz cerby then proceeded to kill everyone who had try'd to steal it from us and anyone who had cure'd them HNM players raged i laughed.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Feynman]

I don't know why I'm crazy enough to jump into this but here we go.

To the OP: As long as both parties are able to be productive I don't consider it inconsiderate. I understand where you're coming from though. The whole, wide, empty zone and you camp on top of us? Why? What benefit is there to anyone? But the main thing is just what you mentioned. "We always camp here." Old habits just die hard.

To the discussion that has broken out instead, I include my two cents. If a mob is unclaimed, it's unclaimed. One of the most annoying phrases in the game is of the form "Hey! That's my monster!" Really? If so how did I kill it? Hack the game code so I could attack claimed targets? I think not. But if I'm killing something and you're trying to do trials or something, I'll move elsewhere out of a courtesy. Assuming you approach me with something other than "I hate you" or the other messages I've gotten.

Someone taking a mob you fought against hoping for a drop can burn, but didn't the death itself do that already? I understand Katz's points about stealing. He is taking the ultimate moral high road. Stealing is stealing and it is never justified. But in this case I don't think you can call it stealing. SE set up the rules of the game. They consider this appropriate behavior. SE doesn't consider it stealing, and heck, it's all their property anyway.

However, sitting around watching a party and waiting for a chance to claim the target they are working on is just plain rude. For instance, a party fighting a mob and the whole party gets charmed. You take the mob once it turns. That's pretty crappy. Just because something is allowed, doesn't mean that it agrees with simple basic rules of human interaction. And yes I'm considering online interaction as human interaction. It is still two people regardless of the medium. But some people are just total jerks in real life and online interactions tend to heighten that quality in those people.

Lastly I may not (and often don't) agree with Korpg's point of view, and he is a bit more....abrasive.... than I think is needed, but I think we all need to let up a bit on other people's viewpoints. Seems like most posts degrade into fighting and personal attacks. Let's accept that we all have different opinions and that true discussion requires different opinions! This is a forum. We will not always agree. I personally don't find Korpg's "***" any harder to take than anyone else I don't agree with. (Not trying to pick on Yugl; I'm just taking a common term that they used.) But you know what? He's changed my mind on some things before.

[Aver]

"If I can't have it, then no one can" is the most unrecognized form of elitism in FFXI.

See: every CFH'd Niddhog from wiping shells running amok.

[Aver]

I play on xbox no chance of 3rd party tools there.... The point was, as I repeat it again, if you pop an nm, and you have put all the hard work into getting the pops either from buying the items or farming the items and you lose thats no big problem. The problem is when you havent lost and are prepared to carry on, why should another party claim the weakened mob. Im not stopping them killing A mob, just not a weakened one popped by someone else outside their group.

You're wasting everyone's time, including your own, trying to apoc-zombie a mob that I'm sure would love to wipe the floor with you again, and again, and again. Time is not something people like to waste, especially not in abyssea where it is limited.

Take the hint and come back with friends next time. Just because you may think you have the ability to (very slowly) solo a mob down doesn't mean you should. Especially if it's one of those wonderful single-??? lower tier KI NMs. You can be damn sure I'll take that the second it idles.

[Gotterdammerung]

Factors

Ignorance: sometimes people only know a few good camps. If none of those camps are open, they feel justified in "crowding" a camp.

Also many people do not realize that holding a mediocre camp alone is often times more productive than fighting competition at a excellent camp.

Morality: This factor is too long to explain. It requires that you understand how human beings relate to morality.
For a short crash course, visit this link http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/25042.pdf and keep wiki open on an extra tab to look up all the terms you don't understand.

If you make it through all 24 pages i think you will have your answer, as well as a greater understanding of why people do what they do.

[Dijana]

I absolutely hate it when other people camp on top. Particularly when there are plenty of other areas open like you said. The last time I went in dynamis, there was a group already in my favourite spot, so I looked for other areas (though any other good spots were taken too) so I had our group only move to our good spot after the first had left.

Of course, after we moved in there, a whole new group came and camped on top of us. They hadnt been in the zone when it was crowded, and when I searched it at the time they came to camp on top, the zone really wasnt crowded anymore. Despite us being there first, they actively tried to force us out by pointing mobs at the whm in our group to mpk us (luckily the whm was just being dualboxed for buffs and I was healing everyone on dnc mainly)

I find it incredibly rude when people do that sort of thing, even though I refuse to do that I know it wont change anything. But then it bothers me when my own group begins saying things like 'well we're gonna have to force them out arent we!' if we ever show up to an area and there's already a group there before us :/

[MojoJojo]

Guess i'll just toss my 2cents in.
-Camping over a group that was there first i feel is a pretty jerkface thing to do, but its fair game. I've been subjected to that kind of thing, and you do the slow-burn, but you cant draw a line around an area and say "MINE!"
-Claiming a yellow mob is fair game, you should be more upset with whatever you did to lose claim than the folks that cleaned up your mess. It's not stealing by any means, you had your "chance" at the mob, and now he's moved on. Forcing it to go yellow or mpk'ing and all that underhanded stuff is a different story, obviously.
-That 20 bucks lying on the ground is going in my pocket.......that bill went yellow!

[Tamoa]

I know it can be a nuisance when other people camp on top of your own group. But as long as it doesn't slow down kill speed/monster availability too much, then idm too much. However, I never understood those people who insist on camping on top of others, and end up gimping both groups' kill speed. See: greater colibri camp back @ 75 cap, a 3rd party arriving and starting to kill stuff, thus gimping everybody's exp including their own.

On the other hand, killing a bst pet slept by another group just so the bst can use charm, is a shitty thing to do.

Claiming a mob that goes white, it not stealing. You can't steal something that nobody owns.

[katz]

You seem to think someone takes a long time on a mob when they solo them. I am quicker than most ls people because I only have 1 person feeding it tp and not wiping left right and center to get the next person in to waste more time because they are underskilled at taking on mobs 1:1. A mob can be claimed after 10 seconds if you mis time something or lag, doesnt mean you have held up anyone. Wonders why there are so many bad players out there that they cant solo mobs quickly. Oh yes I remember they leech their jobs and dont understand how to play them and assume everyone else is as bad as themselves.

[katz]

Oh and I agree monopolizing mobs is bad. Whether its a solo player or an ls who have 18 people waiting to proc the 1 nm x 18. Same difference.

[Rearden]

Why would I fight something 1v1 when my personality and brain capability is tolerable enough to allow for friends?

1xDNC/THF/NIN vs Any mix of Kannagi/Vere or Ukon/Vere comes out behind.

But that's science, and we all know the story about that.

[katz]

why does a champion boxer take on 1:1 when his mates could beat him up quicker. Wheres the skill involved if you want everyone to stand around and watch a tank die and wait for the next tank in the group to take over. Why do people climb mount everest? Because they can and its there. Some times its about proving what you can do without others, other times its about what you can do as a group, neither way is right or wrong. How you know if your gear choice is right, you ask your friends, but what if they give you bad advice for your style of play, its all a game. Choice is one of the fun part of ffxi.

[xbobx]

people with Gokku's opinion need to leave the game. This game was designed as a game that requires community and cooperation. People like that basically just need to leave. In fact if they have this attitude in real life, they need to just leave society and be tossed on some desolate island that matches their attitude of selfishness. This would help to reserve natural resources.

[katz]

Some people think Im selfish for wanting to be the best I can be so that I can support others. If people knew me in the game, they would support Im the least selfish person in the group on group events. Why, because I can solo my stuff. In group events Im there to help the less fortunate. To my knowledge, I have farmed atleast 10 people their ni scrolls and, heres the cruncher, gave it to them for free including my time to get it for them and my seal I have to get the orbs. I freely give new players hints and tips on how to get started and go set up parties with them level sync to their level to help them out. Yet people dont respect sometimes you want to do it for yourself and tell you you are selfish for wanting to try it.......

[Kensagaku]

why does a champion boxer take on 1:1 when his mates could beat him up quicker. Wheres the skill involved if you want everyone to stand around and watch a tank die and wait for the next tank in the group to take over. Why do people climb mount everest? Because they can and its there. Some times its about proving what you can do without others, other times its about what you can do as a group, neither way is right or wrong. How you know if your gear choice is right, you ask your friends, but what if they give you bad advice for your style of play, its all a game. Choice is one of the fun part of ffxi.

T.T I need to stop reading the OF in the morning, it's a headache. But its like a car wreck; you can't help but stop and stare in horror, like it's morbidly attracting.

Anywho, bolded the point I wanted to make. Choice is part of the game? Well it's a person's choice whether or not to take a mob that has gone white. If it's white? To me, it's fair game. If a person simply lost hold of it for a second (i.e. got knocked back and accidentally disengaged) then yeah, I'll leave it be. But if they're apoc-zombieing or have died? Fair game. It's a freebie. My choice would be to take it. Hey look at that, choice can be used by both sides of the argument.

Also, what makes you think it's any less inconsiderate for you to be taking the time to solo when there's another group waiting? You are wasting time by taking a half hour to solo a mob that a moderately skilled group can kill in minutes. You're right, a skilled soloist is better than a below-average alliance that just tosses pink and blue bodies at a mob; you'd likely win, they'd simply have it depop. But a moderate group is going to kill faster than you, is going to do so without wiping (though a few members might die from bad moves), and above all, will be less likely to lose claim on a mob.

When you choose to solo, you also take the risk that being KO'd (even with infinite reraises) means that your mob goes white, and by SE's rules, it is fair game. If you farmed the pop set solo but couldn't take the NM? That's your fault, because either you were underprepared, underskilled, or you just didn't stand a chance. Any GM will tell you that such a mob would be free for anyone to claim, because you no longer have claim over it. You can say "but it was my popset, therefore it is my monster and no one else can have it!" Wrong. The monster belongs to you as long as its name is red (or purple if an alliance member has it, come to think of it why don't they make that red to prevent confusion?), but once it goes white, it is a free game NM for anyone to claim.

Trust me, I like to solo to prove myself too. I've soloed NIN/DNC, I've soloed things on BST, and I've soloed things on BLU. But it's not worth slowing people down or risk losing an NM with good drops to "prove myself". To who, for that matter? The same people whose help you shunned? If I recall correctly you yourself said it's nothing but a game... so why bother proving yourself if it doesn't matter, hm? Either way, soloing is a good way to deal with things if you can't get help, but it's slow, inefficient, and holds up other people and wastes their time. You're welcome to make the choice to do so if you still wish to, but don't go whining when you wipe and someone takes your mob; you wasting their time is just as inconsiderate as them taking "your" mob.

[katz]

The difference is a group gets more than 1 bite of the cherry, but wont allow solo players the same respect. If you see a mob at 1% you say you would rather the group kill it off the dead soloist even though they can get up and claim it again. Who exactly is the selfish person not allowing what.

[Kensagaku]

I would rather the group kill it. The mob could regen and then it'd just be a back-and-forth when the soloist dies again, or it could depop and potential items could be wasted. And while we're on the topic of selfishness, didn't you hear your own point earlier? "I'd rather a mob depop than another group get it, because it and the items it drops are mine." My hypocrisy senses are tingling.

[katz]

On the topic of red v white, AOE spells should set all mobs it hits as red. Ive come across several "leech party payment collectors" who purposely nuke other peoples targets to clear the area. Now if the mob has been AOE only 1 goes red, the targeted mob, the rest are unclaimed and therefore they can target the mobs. Ethical probably as much as charging people to leech. Nothing in SE stops them from doing this, even though they are taking exp from other players (see rules) because the mobs are white you all saying fair game.

[Kensagaku]

That, however, is purposely discourteous versus watching a soloist wipe time and time again against an NM. If you see that someone has pulled a large group of mobs and they have things well under control, then it's best to leave them alone. Exception to this rule is if they've nuked your cleave group, then by all means I encourage retaliation. But when it's an NM that you have people waiting in line for, it's fair game. It's an odd double-standard, I agree, but at the same time it's different levels of courtesy.

[Unleashhell]

and maybe so would about 30% of the people out there.

But that wasn't the situation. You didn't see anyone drop the money, you just see it on the ground.

Besides, that isn't theft. If I dropped money on the ground, that was my mistake. I should have put the money in a safe spot (wallet, money clip). If you see money on the ground, you did not take it from my possession (it was not on my body or inside any clothing or items that I was holding). You do not have a clear concept of theft and possession, it seems like.

Your example makes no comparison. If you walked up on money on the ground and kept it, that is fine being you don't know who it belongs to. If you actually saw the money fall out of someone pocket and you decided hey 20 bucks more for me and 20 bucks less for him then your a scumbag. Your not walking up on a mob that is unclaimed, your watching someone die just so it goes yellow just so you can take it.

Dont worry Katz not all of us are like this. My LS has a rule that if someone wipes and we take claim we give them all drops. 9 times out of 10 they might only want 1 or 2 items from the pool and give us the rest anyway. So its a win win for both parties involved.

[Unleashhell]

More fighting ; ;

*sigh*

I should have expected this from posting a "morality" thread. Sorry about that guys, I just wanted people's opinions.

Do you camp the same zone every dynamis? Do you camp for currency for a relic or to just sell for gil? Reason I'm asking is there are other zone options and I might be able to help you get a better camp where your overall currency drop might increase.

[SNK]

And it is no one elses either. Thats the point I made.

lol Keep dreaming. If your crap goes unclaimed when you wipe then you bet your *** me or anyone else will take it. If I ever screw up and lose claim like that which these days is next to impossible to do unless you're being *** then I fully expect it to happen to me.

Yellow = Fair Game.

[katz]

I would rather the group kill it. The mob could regen and then it'd just be a back-and-forth when the soloist dies again, or it could depop and potential items could be wasted. And while we're on the topic of selfishness, didn't you hear your own point earlier? "I'd rather a mob depop than another group get it, because it and the items it drops are mine." My hypocrisy senses are tingling.
And I still stand by it was my hard work that got it to 1% and my hard work that got the pops, why shouldnt I try to kill it if I can or depop it if I cant.

[Nianny]

Personally I choose to not take another group's mob when it's yellow and then not help them, but like it's been said here before Yellow = Fair game. If someone decides to take a yellow NM I originally was fighting I can't blame or judge them.

[Aver]

I believe thats a personal attack. Just because I decide what I do with my time on a game that I chose to pay for doesnt mean you can give advice on what I should do nor does it give you the right to say Im wasting other peoples time. If someone else is on a mob, move on, find something else to do. Time is limitless in abyssea Ive stayed in there for over 3 days only came out because I was leaving the country. All you are proving is, its right to steal so long as its free because you dont have time no wonder society is in the mess its in.

Nah, don't take it personally when I say soloers are slow as balls, because they are when compared to people who go in prepared with a group and with the damage to get things done efficiently. That being said, most of the time my LS sees a soloer strugglin' along we'll offer to proc and help them kill because we want them to LEAVE.

But try again!

It's not about honing your mad skillz yo, it's about you cockblocking an entire LS that has done this many many many many times, is tired of the zone and wants to finish their objective as soon as humanly possible so they can move on.

[Elexia]

It's inconsiderate, Urteil and his group on Phoenix does this to everyone from Dynamis to Fellcleaver/Cataclysm'ers. Sadly, we just call these people idiots and move on to a better camp that they're generally too stupid to find. Dynamis has plenty of mobs (though they really didn't need to introduce VT/IT versions in spots >.>) that any camp could be good to camp at.



If you see a car parked in your usual spot, do you push it out of the way with your car or key it because it's in YOUR spot?

If I had the ability to I sure as hell would. They'd find their car at the bottom of a lake somewhere >.>

[detlef]

And I still stand by it was my hard work that got it to 1% and my hard work that got the pops, why shouldnt I try to kill it if I can or depop it if I cant.

Yikes, this is harsh. I totally disagree with this. You know what happens when a NM is allowed to despawn? All the effort put in to farm the triggers is rendered moot and nobody is any better off. The drops that could have been used to better somebody's character disappear into the void. Collectively, the playerbase is forced to play FFXI a little bit longer to make up for that lost trigger.

Look at it this way. If you are familiar with T3 VNMs in Heroes zones, you might know that they drop Colorless Souls which are very desired because they are used for the second stage of Ochain and Daurdabla. The way VNMs are designed, once hate is cleared (through a wipe or what have you), the NM despawns. The effect is two-fold. First, it presents zombieing, so regardless of whether you have your AoA equipped, the fight is over if you wipe. Secondly, it means that nobody else can grab it if the group dies (barring blockaid or the mob going white).

You know, you talk about your hard work. What about the people who were camping against you along the way? How would you feel if you camped against a group at Chione, got outclaimed, and then watched them wipe to Ogopogo? Isn't that a tremendous waste? If you got outclaimed at Gukumatz and the other group popped and wiped to Sobek and then it despawned, isn't that a waste of everybody's time?

My point? A NM allowed to despawn is time lost for EVERYBODY.

[Zatias]

Do you camp the same zone every dynamis? Do you camp for currency for a relic or to just sell for gil? Reason I'm asking is there are other zone options and I might be able to help you get a better camp where your overall currency drop might increase.

I generally do Xarcabard and have a number of camps inside. I have all the relic armor drops there and am only there for currency towards my relic weapon. Since I DO have all the relics, as do my helpers, we don't mind also bringing people to grab relic armors they need, as long as they don't mess us up (such as: Diaga SMNs and their pets, cause potentially dangerous 2hrs to go off, aggro the whole zone, or refuse to read the chat log)

I also have a few camps in Beauc, which is slightly more annoying due to its layout, but I don't deal with cities much.


If I had the ability to I sure as hell would. They'd find their car at the bottom of a lake somewhere >.>
I think I should stay far, far away from your frequented spot.

[Suirieko]

Here's what I consider as very inconsiderate: the lone NMs or BST that runs out of nowhere and pops the NM while you are trying to pop the NM as a group.

IE: You have 6 people at a gigas NM to collect KI for Briareus, and a nin comes out of nowhere and pops one for himself. This, I consider as blatantly rude and inconsiderate.

[Zatias]

You have 6 people at a gigas NM to collect KI for Briareus, and a nin comes out of nowhere and pops one for himself. This, I consider as blatantly rude and inconsiderate.

I find this inconsiderate as well. If they only had one KI NM to pop, they could have asked if they could pop it, and usually the group is happy to proc it so the soloist will get the hell out ;P Because we all know the majority of solo players will cost you 3-5 NM pops worth of time.

[Meyi]

I think it's rude, yes.

[Yinnyth]

If the zone is Jeuno, there's only 4 safe camps, and only 1 of those camps has a decent supply of NMs (for hundos). That is of course assuming you-... oh wait, my bad, this discussion has been completely derailed and is no longer about Dynamis. I'll just be on my way.

[Zatias]

Meh, and the thread had just started getting back on track around the time of my last post ; ;

If the zone is Jeuno, there's only 4 safe camps, and only 1 of those camps has a decent supply of NMs (for hundos). That is of course assuming you-... oh wait, my bad, this discussion has been completely derailed and is no longer about Dynamis. I'll just be on my way.

Yeah, I never bother with Jeuno; it's waaay too cramped for my taste. One bad pull means the whole zone is on your ass. Always my least favorite zone before and after the major revamp of this event.

[katz]

Yikes, this is harsh. I totally disagree with this. You know what happens when a NM is allowed to despawn? All the effort put in to farm the triggers is rendered moot and nobody is any better off. The drops that could have been used to better somebody's character disappear into the void. Collectively, the playerbase is forced to play FFXI a little bit longer to make up for that lost trigger.

Look at it this way. If you are familiar with T3 VNMs in Heroes zones, you might know that they drop Colorless Souls which are very desired because they are used for the second stage of Ochain and Daurdabla. The way VNMs are designed, once hate is cleared (through a wipe or what have you), the NM despawns. The effect is two-fold. First, it presents zombieing, so regardless of whether you have your AoA equipped, the fight is over if you wipe. Secondly, it means that nobody else can grab it if the group dies (barring blockaid or the mob going white).

You know, you talk about your hard work. What about the people who were camping against you along the way? How would you feel if you camped against a group at Chione, got outclaimed, and then watched them wipe to Ogopogo? Isn't that a tremendous waste? If you got outclaimed at Gukumatz and the other group popped and wiped to Sobek and then it despawned, isn't that a waste of everybody's time?

My point? A NM allowed to despawn is time lost for EVERYBODY.

Guess you never read that I solo farmed the pops and didnt waste anyone elses time. I go to do stuff solo when there are not many people in the zone. Its my time Im spending learning. I dont see it as a waste because I learn more about the mob and what to try next with it. As to the vnm Tier 3 I solo those too, so I dont see why you would think its wasting other peoples time.

[katz]

Here's what I consider as very inconsiderate: the lone NMs or BST that runs out of nowhere and pops the NM while you are trying to pop the NM as a group.

IE: You have 6 people at a gigas NM to collect KI for Briareus, and a nin comes out of nowhere and pops one for himself. This, I consider as blatantly rude and inconsiderate.

Laughs at linkshells who cant out pop other people in a 3 nm ring. Seriously, if you in a group and you cant out pop 1 person then it says alot about your shell. Its not rude, you never claimed it, its white, he can pop it because according to others in this discussion everyone has the same right to claim the pop. Next thing you be asking for is a queque line for people to stand at while everyone waits their turn. Big clues in this thread, no mob is any ones, you pop you get it, you take too long or are slow getting mobs no one in the thread cares. I always love the way linkshells pull their trump card out, Im in a bigger group therefore I have more rights. Guess what, you dont.

[Kitkat]

Can't say anyone I go with camps ontop of other groups, but people certainly try to do it to us. If not camp they will run through and kill any NM they are able to get ahold of over us just for the chance of a 100 piece. The worst I've ever done to someone else was kill them after getting charmed by an NM orc, but this was because they ran through and snatched it from the area we were fighting in.

In cities, it is hard not to camp on another group because some areas have so little safe spots to camp at. Dynamis isn't like Abyssea, you don't have refresh atma to keep the mages full on mp, you don't got regen or evasion atma to pull large trains. You find a camp and try to make it work with small saftey zones while trying to allow for room where your mage can /heal if needed. That means you typically end up camping right ontop of another group at times.

In larger areas like Xarc or glacier there isn't as much of a reason for it other than some spots here and there have higher NM spawn chances than others. This means you'll usually have to deal with others showing up on occasions. If you are a solo/duo/trio and a group of 6-12 moves in...well I don't know what to tell you. Either expliot the chance to have easier time to pull NM's or whatever else. Sadly this is the vision SE had for Dynamis and mass majority of the populace thought this was a good idea to appease "casual players" (no I am not one of the supporters of this change), but that is how it is now. Only thing I can say is deal with it or don't....all you can do at this point is belly ache and hope someone sympathizes with you ~shrugs~

[Elexia]

Laughs at linkshells who cant out pop other people in a 3 nm ring. Seriously, if you in a group and you cant out pop 1 person then it says alot about your shell. Its not rude, you never claimed it, its white, he can pop it because according to others in this discussion everyone has the same right to claim the pop. Next thing you be asking for is a queque line for people to stand at while everyone waits their turn.

Guarantee you're one of said people who walks up and pops NMs solo. No other reason, since most groups are usually determining an order for people to pop (especially taking a look at who has x/2-5 KI pops) so no one who has the KI pop, since its usually not a full linkshell on one NM.

It's usually the offenders that defend the behavior she talked about.

[Suirieko]

Laughs at linkshells who cant out pop other people in a 3 nm ring. Seriously, if you in a group and you cant out pop 1 person then it says alot about your shell. Its not rude, you never claimed it, its white, he can pop it because according to others in this discussion everyone has the same right to claim the pop. Next thing you be asking for is a queque line for people to stand at while everyone waits their turn. Big clues in this thread, no mob is any ones, you pop you get it, you take too long or are slow getting mobs no one in the thread cares. I always love the way linkshells pull their trump card out, Im in a bigger group therefore I have more rights. Guess what, you dont.

There's a solid set of rules in game. Like if it's white, it's free game, and there's the thing that's called courtesy. I never said they CAN't because it's against the game rules, I said that they shouldn't because it's basically rude. Linkshell vs Linkshell is one thing, you generally take turns, but when you want to solo an NM, and you see a linkshell working on popping NM, you would generally wait or move on, or ask for turn. That's called being courteous. I don't expect everyone to follow it, but whatever.

Like I said, I'm not complaining whether they have the right to or not, they do. There's a different.

Edit:

It's the same general idea when it comes to stealing NMs. Technically it's legal for people to take another NM when the name. HOwever, people generally don't until everyone involved is dead. Otherwise, actually taking another peolpe's NM just because the name is white, makes you look like an *** whether it's legal or not.

[Camiie]

I haven't gone through the whole thread so sorry if this has been mentioned.

Edit: After seeing the huge derail I guess I shouldn't have worried.

As a warning to those who wish to camp on others; Don't do it while fighting an NM in Dynamis-Sandy... Actually go right ahead.... The charm move hits people outside your party/ally. A solo BST fought Voidstreaker near us, and got a beatdown from us for it after we all got charmed. Funny stuff even if i have BST leveled myself.

Perhaps SE needs to look at their mob placement and make more viable "camps." Sounds like that's the problem here. There's too few places to safely and effectively farm.

[Nynja]

Anyone saying that "gimps dont affect you" needs to get their head checked.

One gimp popping X nm or claiming timed Y nm with only one ??? and spending 20-25 minutes ssslllllloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwly dotting it down affects everyone waiting to fight said NM's because theyre spending 20-25 minutes watching gimpy mcgimp fight something that should take 3.

[Korpg]

Anyone saying that "gimps dont affect you" needs to get their head checked.

One gimp popping X nm or claiming timed Y nm with only one ??? and spending 20-25 minutes ssslllllloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwly dotting it down affects everyone waiting to fight said NM's because theyre spending 20-25 minutes watching gimpy mcgimp fight something that should take 3.

Only gimps I see are those standing there doing nothing watching somebody solo a mob.

You know, there are a lot of other mobs to kill right next to you, most KIs are farmed with gold chests, and you should be able to get 1, or if you are lucky 2, key items of the mob you are trying to pop. Unless the item you want only comes from that mob.....which it doesn't. Anything of importance comes from different NMs (seals) or multi-??? mobs (+2 and emp item). Unless you really want that Clarus Stone that is.

[Melodicya]

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[Yugl]

OP: I don't judge people camping by abstract moral principles, but rather by whether it is smarter for them to do so. In most cases, the smarter decision is to not camp on other PTs. This generally reduces the overall capacity of both groups. However, there are instances where one party can effectively monopolize control of the area and if this is produces greater returns (Not just equal returns), then they're making the economical choice if they do so. In most cases where parties compete for camps, it's because there's an investment for initiating the event. At 75, "good" groups were difficult to make via pick up PTs, so telling the group to accept inferior conditions or to "go home" when they can make more profitable returns than changing camps is absurd. Similarly, Dynamis has the same dynamics since they cannot just leave and return at will.

[Nynja]

Only gimps I see are those standing there doing nothing watching somebody solo a mob.

You know, there are a lot of other mobs to kill right next to you, most KIs are farmed with gold chests, and you should be able to get 1, or if you are lucky 2, key items of the mob you are trying to pop. Unless the item you want only comes from that mob.....which it doesn't. Anything of importance comes from different NMs (seals) or multi-??? mobs (+2 and emp item). Unless you really want that Clarus Stone that is.

So if I want say thf and war ft seals (both of which drop off the funguar in Vunkerl) and am 3boxing it with thf blm whm (a group that can kill it in about 3 minutes with grellow), and a pink dnc sneaks a pop in (without grellow, without TH, and takes about 15-20 minutes to kill because they keep holding their TP to waltz therefor doing barely any WS dmg, if any) and is too pretentious to team up because he thinks I'll gank his seals or he's too noble to team up with silly NA, for whatever reason, I'm supposed to pack my bags, and split my farming to two different NM's?

Cleaving for gold pops? Ok, I'm in Misareaux, I just finished my Ochain for my lv19 pld, and now I want to get the AF3+2. The leg +2 items main dropper is Amhuluk...buttttt some pink dnc just claimed Asanbosam (who can only proc two of 13 red !!'s). But hey, I can pack my bags, and go farm up 3 Tristita pop sets to make up for the triple drop that Amhuluk could have offered, that should only take a couple hours.

OR...OR, as a 'healthy' alternative for those Coins of Balance, I can go to Tahrongi, and farm up a Chloris pop (which will take atleast 30 minutes from scratch), an Ursurpur pop (which could take a couple hours like tristia) or kill 3 Myrcomelons (yay refresh rods).


I could give more examples if you want?

[Mirage]

In reply to the original post, yeah, I think it's inconsiderate. It's not illegal, though, so the only thing I really do about it is choose not to be nice to the players involved later, if I happen to end up in a situation where I have the choice to be a dick towards them, or be nice instead.

If I happen to run into a few dudes I know to be nice who are wiping to some stuff when it's at like 30%, I might actually try to hold their mob till they get all rested up, instead of killing it and taking the drops for myself.

[detlef]

Guess you never read that I solo farmed the pops and didnt waste anyone elses time. I go to do stuff solo when there are not many people in the zone. Its my time Im spending learning. I dont see it as a waste because I learn more about the mob and what to try next with it. As to the vnm Tier 3 I solo those too, so I dont see why you would think its wasting other peoples time.

If you do stuff solo when there are not many people in the zone, then it sounds like people taking your mobs when you wipe isn't an issue. Thank goodness. I am very relieved to know that your FFXI experience is not negatively impacted by such unscrupulous players. I think it would be best for everybody if you keep playing during off-peak times. Good luck and happy adventuring!

[Modoru]

This reminds me of when I partied for 14 hours straight in Wajaom. [Yes, I seriously did. Don't judge me, it was a long weekend and I had no plans that day.]

About 8~ hours into it, some party shows up and starts stealing the mobs at leypoint [where we were], when there were easily two other camps very available. After arguing for a little while, I managed to convince them to move to a free camp, so that we'd both have open claim on these mobs without a hassle of overcamp.

...That said, the guy was still a dick about it.

[Shadowsong]

And I still stand by it was my hard work that got it to 1% and my hard work that got the pops, why shouldnt I try to kill it if I can or depop it if I cant.

Why do you keep saying "hard work"? What in this game cannot be refarmed in a matter of moments?

[Korpg]

So if I want say thf and war ft seals (both of which drop off the funguar in Vunkerl) and am 3boxing it with thf blm whm (a group that can kill it in about 3 minutes with grellow), and a pink dnc sneaks a pop in (without grellow, without TH, and takes about 15-20 minutes to kill because they keep holding their TP to waltz therefor doing barely any WS dmg, if any) and is too pretentious to team up because he thinks I'll gank his seals or he's too noble to team up with silly NA, for whatever reason, I'm supposed to pack my bags, and split my farming to two different NM's?

Somehow, I don't think you need either one of those seals. But lets say you do. You could go do the multitude of NMs for THF seals (I don't recommend any other NMs for WAR feet seals than the fungar though) and be done with that, and you can take your 2 bots with you, so no harm, no foul. But you are too stubborn to do so, so you will wait until the pink DNC fails so you can gank their mob, as you have so put it.


Cleaving for gold pops? Ok, I'm in Misareaux, I just finished my Ochain for my lv19 pld, and now I want to get the AF3+2. The leg +2 items main dropper is Amhuluk...buttttt some pink dnc just claimed Asanbosam (who can only proc two of 13 red !!'s). But hey, I can pack my bags, and go farm up 3 Tristita pop sets to make up for the triple drop that Amhuluk could have offered, that should only take a couple hours.

Or, you could continue to farm gold chests. I'm sure that your 2 bots doesn't have any other KIs either.


OR...OR, as a 'healthy' alternative for those Coins of Balance, I can go to Tahrongi, and farm up a Chloris pop (which will take atleast 30 minutes from scratch), an Ursurpur pop (which could take a couple hours like tristia) or kill 3 Myrcomelons (yay refresh rods).

You could do that if you want. But we all know, you rather just stand next to soloers/parties and try to lag them out so they can wipe and you and your 2 bots can grab Amhuluk. Which I doubt any DNC will want to solo Asanbosam anyway.

[Vortex]

OR...OR, as a 'healthy' alternative for those Coins of Balance, I can go to Tahrongi, and farm up a Chloris pop (which will take atleast 30 minutes from scratch), an Ursurpur pop (which could take a couple hours like tristia) or kill 3 Myrcomelons (yay refresh rods).

Good luck with that, Chloris is a terrible source for coins of balance, 5 Kis for a CHANCE at one stinking coin and thats if you proc yellow. senda takes 2 KIs is a much easier fight (due to the Kis) and always drops at least 1 coin if you don't proc yellow.


Myrcomelon is also a bad source with his low drop rate and can be very annoying low man. tho not hard.

[Nynja]

Somehow, I don't think you need either one of those seals. But lets say you do. You could go do the multitude of NMs for THF seals (I don't recommend any other NMs for WAR feet seals than the fungar though) and be done with that, and you can take your 2 bots with you, so no harm, no foul. But you are too stubborn to do so, so you will wait until the pink DNC fails so you can gank their mob, as you have so put it.

You're right, it was a hypothetical situation...I said "I need war AND thf seals", both of which conveniently drop from 1 NM...but your suggestion was to "do the magnitude of NM's for thf seals", why would I want to waste my time doing other NM's when I could get two drops I'm aiming for off 1 mob? On top of that, your brilliant suggestion was to "go fight other NM's for thf seals, then come back to the funguar (which drops thief which means I'll just be wasting even more time and resources because I'd have farmed up my thief seals and watching the ones off funguar fall to the ground) because the other NM's for war seals suck? Are you serious?



Or, you could continue to farm gold chests. I'm sure that your 2 bots doesn't have any other KIs either.
Why do you continue to insinuate that extra accounts have to be run by bots? You make it sound like it takes a lot of effort to put a second account on follow, and put macros of "/ma "cure V" Nynja" and hit them. Its really not. At this point, you are, what you accuse hundred of doing, a troll. I'm not going to go the route the "EVIL BG FORUM INHABITANTS" do and make the Bambi jokes...but you really are a Troll. You post such ginormous garbage for the sole purpose of generating a rise out of others. I gave you a legitimate situation where someone being a gimp extends past "wah its my 12.95, I can play how I want, it doesnt bother you", and in turn you say "go farm 2x the amount of NM's". That's being a troll.

As to what I quoted about gold chests...let me know which gold pyxis the Bloodied Bat Fur, which is Asambosam's KI, loads in. Let me help you out...you can start by looking here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7825-May-19th-Version-Update-Details). As far as the KI's my "bots" have, you should worry about your own first.



You could do that if you want. But we all know, you rather just stand next to soloers/parties and try to lag them out so they can wipe and you and your 2 bots can grab Amhuluk. Which I doubt any DNC will want to solo Asanbosam anyway.

If 3 characters cause someone to lag out, they need to upgrade their PC. Secondly, you once again refer to extra characters as "bots", that's grounds for trolling. Third, to your stupid question of "why would a DNC want to solo Asanbosam"? I dont know, maybe because this isnt WoW and they have multiple jobs on one character, and want Amhuluk for the Coin of Balance? Maybe he's 5/6 on Jewel of Balance / Jewel of ador / Coin of ador and figured Amhuluk would be the easiest pop&kill between Cirein, Bennu and Apademak. Maybe he wants BLU BRD PLD RNG seals? WHO CARES, the fact is its a gimp dnc taking 25 minutes to kill something that should take 3, and the stupid argument of "its my 12.95, it doesnt bother others, wah stfu" DOES affect others in this case.

[Nynja]

Good luck with that, Chloris is a terrible source for coins of balance, 5 Kis for a CHANCE at one stinking coin and thats if you proc yellow. senda takes 2 KIs is a much easier fight (due to the Kis) and always drops at least 1 coin if you don't proc yellow.


Myrcomelon is also a bad source with his low drop rate and can be very annoying low man. tho not hard.

I'm aware, because that whole part of my post you quoted was mostly sarcasm to show how stupid Korpg's idea of "only gimps sit around and watch others fight stuff when they could go fight other things" (or whatever it is) really is.

My point was, if I need 3 coins of balance, looking to other sources to "not be gimp and waste time" IS a waste of time, when the other NM's that drop them are Tristia (a VNM which could take hours to get 1 pop let alone 3), Usurpur (another VNM which could take hours), Chloris (which could take 2 hours easily to get 3 pops) or Myrcomelon (which while not overly difficult to pop, would still take 30+ minutes just on repop times for 3, and with the BS known at Gravitic Horn means I could still wipe mercilessly even in easy mode abyssea).


aaaaaaaand sedna doesnt drop coin of balance.

[Korpg]

I would like to thank Nynja for proving my point in both of his posts about what BG is and does on a daily basis. Which is making wild accusations and continuous slander. The term "bot" wasn't meant for saying that Nynja actually bots, but more like having 2 extra "players" when all 3 are being controlled by the same person. Not as a third party program running any/all extra characters, which Nynja automatically implied that I stated. Then he has to add minor attacks on my character in not only the post directed at me, but the post not directed at me.

[Greatguardian]

Those are called alts, or mules. "Bot" in FFXI has always referred to an automated process working independently of a user's input. You intentionally used a word with improper connotations in order to take whatever cheap shots you could at him, and evoke either a personal or a community response about botting unrelated to the topic at hand.

Would calling that trolling be a wild accusation? No way. Slander? That seems to have been your game in this. Don't think that your shit doesn't stink. People choose words for a reason.

[Korpg]

Those are called alts, or mules. "Bot" in FFXI has always referred to an automated process working independently of a user's input. You intentionally used a word with improper connotations in order to take whatever cheap shots you could at him, and evoke either a personal or a community response about botting unrelated to the topic at hand.

Then I apologize for using the term "bot," even though I did not meant it for the way you implied. It was not meant to be a cheap shot, although you seem to determine so.

Although, I stand by my statement of him, although BG is included in this, automatically coming to the defensive and attacking my character. You seem to do so too, don't you? That is why I lump you and him and a few others in with the same group of miscreants who seem to delve in the continue behavior of slander and libel. You guys seem to feed off of others who are not you, which is why you will continue to behave the way you do. I just hope you don't act like this outside of that particular forum and this game, otherwise you might find yourself to be very unhappy in the near future.


Would calling that trolling be a wild accusation? No way. Slander? That seems to have been your game in this. Don't think that your shit doesn't stink. People choose words for a reason.

You choose your word, I choose mine. We are both wrong, and we are both right. Truth is too subjective to understand the real meaning of our little conversations, now, does it?

Continue to call me a troll, for all I care. It does not affect me at all, for I have been called worse and have successfully countered their arguments. I will, however, continue to call BG as a slanderous website which should be deleted for the good of society, and by having BG continue to attack people will show the mob mentality of idiocy continue to run rampant.

[Falseliberty]

late reply but to the original OP the reason they camping on top of ya is due to lack of real camps in dyna. there is already an other thread discussing this clusterfuck. does it make it right? well no but not alot of options inside honestly

[SNK]

The official forums and BG have a lot of differences and for that I'm thankful. This place is a decent source for information about upcoming updates within the game which I'm glad Camate and the other mods here feel free to spend their time sharing with us.

BG however is what I refer to as a real test server in the sense that the playerbase finds the bugs, glitches and things that arrive with every version update that the dev will usually miss. Bg has also been one of the #1 sources for information on new content where people converse and share ideas with players usually providing proof which seems to be Kprog's thing but even then it's viewed with an open mind.

I've been moderating one of the oldest gaming sites on the net being www.the-nextlevel.com/ (http://www.the-nextlevel.com/) and I've dealt with all sorts of stupid in the 12 years I've moderated the place so the things I see people say here and on BG don't surprise me but when I see people say that BG is a worthless site it makes me laugh at the petty jealously I see because those people saying this were either banned or laughed off BG ages ago for their inability to be an active member of that place.

These forums arn't so bad and I'm thankful that SE started something like this which truthfully should have been done years ago but in closing, if you're one of those people that hate BG so vehemently then you probably only really look for the bad in that place which sadly isn't anywhere as bad as here sometimes because BG at least controls the amount of "stupid" that tries to infect their forums.

This place by SE obviously has the mods cuffed from being able to do what they'd like to do I'm sure so I'm sure them banging their heads on their desks everytime someone posts something stupid in an attempt to make a "difference" usually leaves them from doing nothing other then locking threads or temp banning people because it's all they can do.

If some people who post here want some respect then by all means give some thoughts into your posts before you hit reply instead of NOU or where are your sources for this.

It would make everyone's time on these boards much more enjoyable.

[Bublex]

Hello Everyone!

It seems this conversation is still receiving a large number of off-topic posts and personal attacks. I am afraid I now have to lock this thread.

As always, you can review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1&tag=forum)