Heavy Strike low accuracy problem

[Atoreis]

It's pretty surprising none is talking about low accuracy of Heavy Strike. It was suppose to be our main spell against harder mobs and they destroyed the whole idea of it. If they felt its too strong or something they should have changed its recast or something and not turning it to another spell to use on too weak mobs...

SE please do something with it because missing Hahava a lot at 95 with sushi ( based on tests made by Prothescar ) is just a lame thing for our not so long ago hope bringing spell.

If someone not reading BG or JP forum I would want to tell you that SE suppose to nerfed Quad. Continuum too (probably not by much but still) and they just said we should accept that because those spells were too good...

Yeah for a moment I had a really nice picture of my BLU in an ally against some harder VWs and doing something else beside staggering. That picture faded away pretty fast ...

[Prothscar]

It's pretty surprising none is talking about low accuracy of Heavy Strike.

...Really?

QC nerf is still a rumor. Could be poor translation from JP. Furthermore, I hadn't intended to make it sound like it was happening in this update; rather it already happened.

If I had found the information had enough gravity to be worth complaining about to the Devs, I would have posted it here. As it stands, I have yet to do any testing into a possible QC nerf and have just complained about the JP Dev post. Do not take it as fact, please.

[Nightfyre]

Not like we've been discussing Heavy Strike in two threads or anything...

Making statements based off of poorly translated posts is premature and as likely to make you look the fool as anything else (remember Scarlet Delirium?). Wait for a translation before drawing any conclusions.

[Prothscar]

Not like we've been discussing Heavy Strike in two threads or anything...

Making statements based off of poorly translated posts is premature and as likely to make you look the fool as anything else (remember Scarlet Delirium?). Wait for a translation before drawing any conclusions.

This, please. I understand the want to circulate information, but please do not circulate it as fact, especially with someone else's name attached to it.

[Atoreis]

Not like they translate everything to english forum. There is a lot situational answers on both english and jp forum that are not translated and this post ( the one about heavy strike and QC ) looks like one of those. If we wont make clear questions and statements we wont get any answers at all I'm afraid. So it actually might be better to be premature than sorry.

[Atoreis]

This, please. I understand the want to circulate information, but please do not circulate it as fact, especially with someone else's name attached to it.

I only said you did some test on Hahava with sushi at 95lv and your accuracy was pretty bad. I don't think I overuse your name or something do I?

[Prothscar]

You do use it somewhat often.

[Atoreis]

I might be wrong but even if I used your name few times it was about this one test you did and I seriously see nothing wrong in basing my opinion on your test. That actually means I think it was solid and valid and I can trust you on this. For me it would be wrong to say about your work and not saying who did it but if that is your wish I wont ever relate any of your tests with your name. From now I will just write "Someone tried in on Hahava with sushi.....".

[Prothscar]

Not saying to stop citing the source.

[Yugl]

I like Atoreis's idea of doubling the recast and providing grand accuracy (i.e. more than usual).

[Atoreis]

Ok my idea for heavy strike is to make it some kind of SneakAttackish style of spell like it was with SAcannonball but w/o needs of subbing /thf.

We seriously have a ton of spells that works on weak/middle defensive mobs. We lack a spell that will work for high def monsters.

So far only way to damage "HNMs" is to sub /thf and force crit on one our strong 1hit spells (Benthic Typhoon, Vanity Dive for example). SE can fix that in two ways. One which is very hard to balance would be based on letting us boost our blue magic attack with spell or equip. Like I wrote it would be hard to balance because it would boost all our spells. second way is to give us spells that are 100% crit or have blue attack bonus attached to it like some weaponskills (Tachi: Gekko for example). Heavy Strike was a very good step in that direction but SE completely destroyed the idea with bad reasoning. They found it overpowered because of abyssea buffs and ability to spam it (low cost low recast). They solve this in a worst possible way because it is still spell that you can spam but only on trash mobs making it just another physical spell to chain with QC,Goblin,Diss etc. Instead of that they should add accuracy bonus to it and let us use it as one reliable source of damage against hard defense monsters and limiting us by middle high recast.

Basically instead of reducing it overtime power they reduced the pull of mobs on which it can be used and that is a fail in my opinion and that should be fix if possible. Camate please throw that idea higher maybe someone from development team will catch it.

EDIT: I know my english is hard to read, sorry ;)

[Granny]

isn't damage garbage now too? somthing like 400 dmg on high deffence mobs even thought its auto critical? AND misses a lot too no matter how much accuracy you get for the spell? ='(

[Atoreis]

isn't damage garbage now too? somthing like 400 dmg on high deffence mobs even thought its auto critical? AND misses a lot too no matter how much accuracy you get for the spell? ='(

Damage is fine. 400 sounds like you read Prothscar post about Hahava too. First of all ( I hope he wont be mad at me again ) he wrote "A sample of the damage:
No CA:
383
464
465
333
479

CA:
980
1206"

which means its really good stacked with CA (because of very high mod) and actually tells us a little about the damage because Hahava has stances in which it takes very reduced damage. I personally saw 190 200 Fudo while it was resistance to physical and I did 350 CA+Efflux+QC while few moments later I did 290 Delta thrust w/o any buffs.

[Tashan]

Maybe there is something we're not doing right.

Something which the devs are taking into consideration that we can't see.

[Prothscar]

Damage is fine. 400 sounds like you read Prothscar post about Hahava too. First of all ( I hope he wont be mad at me again ) he wrote "A sample of the damage:
No CA:
383
464
465
333
479

CA:
980
1206"

which means its really good stacked with CA (because of very high mod) and actually tells us a little about the damage because Hahava has stances in which it takes very reduced damage. I personally saw 190 200 Fudo while it was resistance to physical and I did 350 CA+Efflux+QC while few moments later I did 290 Delta thrust w/o any buffs.

Not mad about what you think I was mad about. o.o

In any case, damage isn't terrible considering the target, but I suspect that 95 makes the gap a bit smaller for other DDs, I haven't had a chance to try out Ukko's or Fudo @ 95 on a highish VWNM yet.


Maybe there is something we're not doing right.

Something which the devs are taking into consideration that we can't see.

Not too sure about that, I think things just got Tanakified (tm).

[Covenant]

Question. Aren't physical spells heavily effected by accuracy and blue magic skill, NOT magical "stats", therefore investing in accuracy gear should help out?

[Prothscar]

Physical spells have various modifiers. All physical spells are effected by STR because blue magic attack is calculated with blue magic skill and STR. WSC (secondary modifiers of a spell) can be STR, VIT, DEX, INT, whatever; it's based on the spell. Accuracy helps yes, but until now it was not required to land a spell, and we could focus on modifiers for damage. A physical spell's accuracy is based on your main handed weapon's accuracy and whatever penalties/bonuses that the spell itself receives.

[Nightfyre]

Maybe there is something we're not doing right.

Something which the devs are taking into consideration that we can't see.

Using BLU against VT+ mobs, evidently.

[Tashan]

LMAO Nightfyre xD.

[Mightyg]

Yeah I'd rather see even a big recast than see it's actual effectiveness take a dive, missing completely is incredibly frustrating.

[Jar]

this spells acc seem much lower than when i used it on the test server showing almost 35% of my spells are missing on bugards in aby Garberg and im even using sushi..

[Sabishii]

All I know is that I learned the spell, and been casting it on dolls in altepa A and missing 70-80% of the time in a Strength setup, and I've never seen that for any other physical spells I've had in playing BLU. It's ridiculous that all our spells are accurate, yet this spell which is good damage (1k+ w/o CA+Efflux, 3.7k with TP, CA+Efflux) misses 3/4ths of the time. It makes the spell pointless unless you're /THF, which isn't viable in most situations unless you're trying to boost your epeen screenshots or something. It's not like my ACC is gimp or something. All my other spells are hitting. This spell needs to be unnerfed.

[xbobx]

So basically a spell not worth even setting. Nice.

[Kensagaku]

Iunno, I call Triple Attack worth setting it for if you have nothing else to use the set points on.

[Tashan]

Worth setting for cheaper double attack

[Prothscar]

It's still worth setting. Triple Attack is around 2~5% more effective than our gimped Double Attack trait too, assuming it isn't gimped as well.

[SpankWustler]

Using BLU against VT+ mobs, evidently.

The development team does, in fact, test physical Blue Magic against Incredibly Tough monsters and Notorious Monsters. How else could they consistently make the entire demographic of spells perform so disappointingly against those entire demographics of monsters?

I'd be all over a Heavy Strike that had good accuracy and a higher recast. I have pretty of stuff to cast on weak stuff. I want more stuff to cast on hard stuff.

[ShadowViper]

I am pretty sure that the high mod % was not intended for us to stack every piece of STR gear we have to try for uber dmg but so we can put a fair bit of accuracy on and still do good dmg.

[Prothscar]

Even in full accuracy the spell misses an incredible amount of the time. Invalid argument.

[ShadowViper]

And at this point as close as we are to true Endgame how much content has been added now that is adjusted more so for lv 99 versus 95. We also dont know what sorta of gear/items we will recieve by then that would also boost our accuracy. Its not like the spell cost a ton or has a super long recast if it misses recast it move on. DD miss all the time fighting the harder mobs currently in game whats the difference, oh cause we use MP, what about RNGs that are eating up ammo. Blu has easily become OP and we compain about a spell like this. Really if I was going to complain about a new spell it would be Mortal, its extremely rare you can land on any mob more less the effect to take place and the cost to even try it makes it completely worthless.

[Prothscar]

Blu has easily become OP and we compain about a spell like this.

Proof? BLU is about as far from OP as you can get before becoming DRK.

[xbobx]

Well leveled blu last night and tried out heavy strike. Well one of the most worthless spells in game. Was hitting about 25% of the time on IT mobs, and when it did hit, it did less damage then Quad. So, it will never get equipped again until SE realizes the nerf was just dumb. Needs to be restored right back to when it was originally implemented.

[Lordscyon]

This is True!

[Defiledsickness]

you guys do realize this spell is intended for levels 90-95 right? that means skill up your damn Blue magic before complaining!!

also you can equip different gear to increase spell efficiency. if you just spam spells expecting them to kill stuff then why play the game? improve yourself and you'll improve the spell.

the acc is lower then test server imo from playing around with it personally. but i also capped my skills in test server :P even with the acc i have, this spell is great. better dmg then delta thrust and it lands more often then not. your posts dont make me think you guys should be fighting nm's anyways.

[xbobx]

Better dmg then delta thrust?. SE specifically said this spell is our big dmg one, It isn't even stronger then our current ones. And being it isn't stronger, why the acc nerf to begin with?

I still have my doubts that it will be an efficient spell, maybe with /thf but I think the nerf is too much. For this type of nerf, I expected the spell to hit around the 1200-1500 range in abyessa, and with a 75% str it would do significantly less outside.

[SpankWustler]

you guys do realize this spell is intended for levels 90-95 right? that means skill up your damn Blue magic before complaining!!

I'm not sure how seven or eight base damage will affect the accuracy of Heavy Strike.

[Defiledsickness]

there exists some formula to decide if a spell lands vs a mob or not. even if the 30 blue magic skill points we can level to dont increase the hit/miss equation, it still effects resist rate. i dont know the formula but i can tell you these points will help and definitely increase your damage.

i mean it lands 90%+ for me and you guys claim the acc sucks... so who is using the spell properly? the spell dmg vs mp cost is amazing any way you look at it and inside of abyssea (where you can really increase crit dmg) this spell puts out amazing numbers.

btw why do you keep saying you'll /thf? SA doesnt guarantee a spell to land, it guarantee's a critical hit (this spell has 100% chance of crit'ing). this hasnt become my only spell so if you're desire was to spam 1 spell non-stop, go play whack-a-mole.

also: Delta Thrust is an amazing spell, however it has 3 hits to it. acc will vary the dmg and full hits will give extra TP. heavy strike is a single hit spell = less tp. similar spell cost, similar DoT. heavy strike can easily do 4k dmg inside abyssea (even if you dont know what ur doing) and do far more if you push it.

[Nightfyre]

there exists some formula to decide if a spell lands vs a mob or not. even if the 30 blue magic skill points we can level to dont increase the hit/miss equation, it still effects resist rate. i dont know the formula but i can tell you these points will help and definitely increase your damage.

i mean it lands 90%+ for me and you guys claim the acc sucks... so who is using the spell properly? the spell dmg vs mp cost is amazing any way you look at it and inside of abyssea (where you can really increase crit dmg) this spell puts out amazing numbers.

btw why do you keep saying you'll /thf? SA doesnt guarantee a spell to land, it guarantee's a critical hit (this spell has 100% chance of crit'ing). this hasnt become my only spell so if you're desire was to spam 1 spell non-stop, go play whack-a-mole.
You... are a special person.

-Physical spells don't resist, they miss. Additional effects and magical spells resist.
-Hitrate varies with the target, your gear/food/skills/level, and your ability to count correctly. What are you fighting? What are you wearing? What are you eating? Are you eyeballing your hitrate?
-Sneak Attack does guarantee the next hit (be it a melee hit or the first hit of a spell) to land if you're positioned properly.

I suppose you think TP affects spells outside of CA too?

[Defiledsickness]

there's my answer to the thf thing, had no idea but according to wiki it does guarantee 100% acc.


-Hitrate varies with the target, your gear/food/skills/level, and your ability to count correctly. What are you fighting? What are you wearing? What are you eating? Are you eyeballing your hitrate?thats what i was saying, so you're restating it for...?

resist/miss what's the difference? you cant tell me blu skill has no effect on chance of landing a spell vs a mob, i still remember missing like crazy back in wajaom woodlands vs IT mobs. went back and skilled up, fixed the problem. if you have links to testing please do share, its hard to find good info now that ffxiclopedia is dead.

considering how many things have effects that are not listed in-game (EG sneak attack) you can't rule positively on things until you've done proper testing.

[Tashan]

No. Physical Spell Accuracy is based on the main hand weapon's accuracy, not Blue Magic Skill. It's Blue Mage 101.

[Nightfyre]

thats what i was saying, so you're restating it for...?
Because you're talking like we should all have the same hitrate as you when we were likely fighting different mobs. In other words, not the same thing at all. If I'd only used it in Limbus getting Thunderbolt then I'd suppose there was no major acc issue either, but if I go fight something that matters then it's readily apparent that there's a severe accuracy penalty.

[Prothscar]

I would go so far to say that the accuracy penalty is even higher than the -70 that was previously projected. What use is having a spell that hits "hard" if it's only going to land 1/10 times? You'd be better off using the weaker spells 10 times and getting the same or better damage.

[Demonofhunger]

Just a question: is anyone getting good damage from this spell?

I mean, my Blue skill isn't capped yet, but this spell seems to do about 1K damage to EM mobs and less to tougher mobs. I haven't seen a CA + Efflux hit yet because they all miss with a +40 Acc atma, but I don't really see the damage people keep talking about.

It's like a QC -1, but with a horrible acc problem and cheaper cost and recast.

[Kitkat]

In abyssea I've managed to see roughly 1200~2300 without CA/Ef active, and if it lands, upwards of 5.5k with CA/EF active. I have been using my usual CDC atma, so no +acc nor acc food. about 8/10 times I'll miss when it matters (when using CA/EF) which is incredibly annoying. I'd say the only use for this spell is /thf to ensure landing but why nerf yourself just to land a spell that won't gain anything else from SA?

I can understand SE lowering acc on this by maybe -30-40, but seriously...aside from a low cost double attack trait (or overall triple if you want to set that) and the +stats on the spell I'm finding little reason to even bother casting it. Doesn't chain with CdC, doesn't land worth a crap anymore, and I'd have better use spamming Vanity Dive for lower damage with higher accuracy then with this spell if I want to do damage and avoid excessive TP feed.

Granted it was overpowered when it first came out on test server, but now it just....sucks.

[Mizuharu]

...

Sneak Attack Heavy Strike...? >.> 100% acc and blu/thf seems perfectly acceptable in VW... Though the acc is crap and should be bumped up slightly.

[Zagen]

...

Sneak Attack Heavy Strike...? >.> 100% acc and blu/thf seems perfectly acceptable in VW... Though the acc is crap and should be bumped up slightly.
I'm pretty sure the main appeal of Heavy Strike before the nerf was that /THF wasn't needed to make it a good spell to use.

[Prothscar]

...

Sneak Attack Heavy Strike...? >.> 100% acc and blu/thf seems perfectly acceptable in VW... Though the acc is crap and should be bumped up slightly.

The point of heavy strike was that it auto crits, levelling the playing field for our magic on higher level/defense targets. With the acc penalty, that use is nearly completely scrapped. If you're going to be gimping yourself by subbing THF, use a superior spell like Benthic Typhoon.

[Mizuharu]

The point of heavy strike was that it auto crits, levelling the playing field for our magic on higher level/defense targets. With the acc penalty, that use is nearly completely scrapped. If you're going to be gimping yourself by subbing THF, use a superior spell like Benthic Typhoon.

Even with "auto crit", if the acc is shit, then there's no real point in using it ever without sneak attack unless you just wanna try to get lucky and hope for that magical moment when the spell actually lands while fighting yer VWNMs. Until they boost the acc (which I doubt since they already lowered it), your best bet is CA Efflux SA Heavy Strike. Not that different from cannonball'ing Dark Ixion back when people would. (I do miss those 2k cannonballs...)

[Defiledsickness]

the acc isnt 1% it's about as good as Benthic Typhoon.

[Prothscar]

the acc isnt 1% it's about as good as Benthic Typhoon.

While it isn't 1%, it's certainly worse than Benthic Typhoon by a considerable margin.

And no, you're not best off with a CA/EFF/SA Heavy Strike. You're best off with a CA/EFF/SA Benthic Typhoon or Vanity Dive.

[xbobx]

I hardly ever miss Benthic Typhoon, I almost always miss with heavy strike.

[VonCrown]

You know, I always heard lots of people talking about benthic typhoon 'missing a lot', but I've never seen any hard data to back up any evidence of any acc penalty on that spell, like some claim it has. I always attributed that to a combination of loleyeballing and the fact that multi-hit spells rarely 'miss' outright because they are just that... multi-hit.

Just saying, I wish anyone would ever prove BT had any kind of accuracy penalty before spreading whatever rumors that it misses more.

That said, I am in agreement that heavy strike is a silly thing and should be fixed. Though, I feel that way about a lot of the new spells in this update... (Thunderbolt/barrier tusk especially, perhaps lower mp cost of mortal ray or something)

[Defiledsickness]

it's hardly spreading rumors to say that i personally have Benthic Typhoon say "Miss" as much as i've had Heavy strike say "Miss". on EP to IT mobs and NM's. When i have time to start doing some VW i'll write my opinion on the spells 'true purpose'

however, all i hear is how awful heavy strike is. if you dont like it dont use it! for me it varies between 0-5% off of QC's dmg, has less acc but almost a 3rd of the mp cost!

i would imagine fighting lvl 1 mobs you could determine the true acc (as i dont see how you couldnt have capped everything against a lvl 1 mob). maybe if i get bored enough i'll fight something 100times and report back :P since im clearly the only one here who actually likes this spell (trust me i love better acc as much as anyone, i just see more point to this spell as-is then the TA job trait).


btw you can get Heavy strike up to 10k dmg in abyssea with +crit damage

[Prothscar]

If your Benthic Typhoon is missing as often as your Heavy Strike then I don't know what to tell you. Heavy Strike has a more than noticeable accuracy deficiency on almost anything I've casted it on, you don't even need testing to see it.

[Nightfyre]

We should test spell accuracy on level 1 mobs. I've heard it all now.

There's a difference between an accuracy penalty and a hitrate penalty; Heavy Strike has the former whereas your test would reveal the latter.

[Prothscar]

We should test spell accuracy on level 1 mobs. I've heard it all now.

There's a difference between an accuracy penalty and a hitrate penalty; Heavy Strike has the former whereas your test would reveal the latter.

This. I've already conducted these tests and confirmed that it isn't a hitrate cap reduction, it's an accuracy penalty akin to Slug Shot/Sidewinder. The exact accuracy penalty I haven't the foggiest idea of, but it's large enough to be a massive hindrance to the spell's usability. Why am I missing 8/10 Heavy Strikes on DC turtles in Tahrongi Canyon, SE?

[VonCrown]

Yeah, I was fighting EP dahaks to finally get lolbody slam, and I was still whiffing on heavy strike a good 30% of the time or more.

My earlier comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just that I've heard all sorts of rumors of BT having an acc penalty without an onz of proof beyond 'it seems to miss more'. Again, any single hit is going to 'seem to miss more' when you're used to using multi-hit attacks. It's as absurd as a drk saying slice has an accuracy penalty after getting used to guillotine.

[Mizuharu]

Went BLU/THF to VWNM tonight (T3 pixie Jugner) with a heavy strike and typhoon set up on me. Did SATA on whichever PLD didn't have hate at the time. Heavy Strike always did 2200+ with CA/Efflux and 1500 without. Typhoon never broke 1k.

So, you all play how you want, I'm going to stick to BLU/THF for VWNMs.

[Prothscar]

Went BLU/THF to VWNM tonight (T3 pixie Jugner) with a heavy strike and typhoon set up on me. Did SATA on whichever PLD didn't have hate at the time. Heavy Strike always did 2200+ with CA/Efflux and 1500 without. Typhoon never broke 1k.

So, you all play how you want, I'm going to stick to BLU/THF for VWNMs.

I find your numbers to be likely skewed and tampered with. If you aren't breaking 1k with Benthic with SA but you're doing 2200 with heavy strike something is horribly wrong with your setup or you were not behind the monster when you casted typhoon.

4fTP 60% AGI
vs.
2.25fTP 75% STR

[Mizuharu]

I find your numbers to be likely skewed and tampered with. If you aren't breaking 1k with Benthic with SA but you're doing 2200 with heavy strike something is horribly wrong with your setup or you were not behind the monster when you casted typhoon.

4fTP 60% AGI
vs.
2.25fTP 75% STR

go try it out for yourself if you don't believe me. I don't have any way to record fights. But I did just pop a 2882 typhoon on the behemoth one so maybe it was just the pixie.

[Prothscar]

go try it out for yourself if you don't believe me. I don't have any way to record fights. But I did just pop a 2882 typhoon on the behemoth one so maybe it was just the pixie.

I've been around the block more than once. It's almost mathematically impossible for Benthic to be weaker than Heavy Strike with SA, much less over 100% weaker. Either the mob you were fighting is strong to piercing or something is wrong.

[Pyrobunny]

when i 1st got to use heavy strike it sucked but once i got my blue magic skill capped i hardly ever miss now
tho it is retarded when it does miss when u use CA and efflux

[Prothscar]

when i 1st got to use heavy strike it sucked but once i got my blue magic skill capped i hardly ever miss now
tho it is retarded when it does miss when u use CA and efflux

Blue Magic Skill has no bearing on physical spell accuracy.

[Pyrobunny]

Blue Magic Skill has no bearing on physical spell accuracy.

then the my pure coolness is making me not miss with it then b/c my gear hasint change

[Neisan_Quetz]

Eyeballing, stop it.

[Helel]

I'm kind of ambivalent about the nerf now. Originally I was super pissed, but it's not as bad as I thought. I had to put some extra accuracy gear on, but meh, the damage is still great. I just wish they would let us set higher accuracy bonus tiers. For voidwatch, I'm always tanking on BLU so I usually focus on cures/flash/voke/hate spell instead of damage anyway.

[Defiledsickness]

finally people who dont miss 90% :P

night if you are so intelligent GO TEST! come give us the results after you actually use the spell because other then telling me my posts are wrong you haven't been contributing to finding out anything. just complaining ;P i like the spell yet im still trying to find out about it.

in WoE conflux#9 fighting amhuluk mobs, heavy strike only missed 2 times out of 12 and i cant remember the dmg cuz i was weakened and trying not to die (because it takes 30seconds for the auto-raise +more with all the smn lag) but i remember one of the casts did 600dmg. i was mostly using Sudden Lunge which was stunning them 5-7 seconds ^^ that spell only missed completely once of maybe 20 casts. these are not EP mobs btw. 8.6k Exp at the end.

[HimuraKenshyn]

The accuracy sucked on ep/dc mobs in full str gear it missed enough to have me want to just quit using it where as on the same mobs Aura statues BT didn't in full agi. I love CDC to BT for darkness just my experience hunting for the skill-up earring for a few nights run. I swapped HS to using a str-acc build and didn't have an issue after that still just dreading anything high eva an IT++.....

[Defiledsickness]

It's almost mathematically impossible for Benthic to be weaker than Heavy Strike with SA

4fTP 60% AGI
vs.
2.25fTP 75% STR
maybe your numbers on Heavy Strike are wrong? it is still very new. does Loki's effect Typhoon during SA? because atm critdmg+ is the biggest damage factor.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I think we can all conclude you don't know what you're doing.

[Crysten]

The amount of BLUs in this thread that don't even know the basic fundementals of the job are making me sad at the moment. ._.

Some additional information from the BLUs simply eyeballing their hitrate would be amazing - what were you casting in? What food were you using? Subjobs? Vague anecdotes of "well i can hit it 10/12 times on anything so you guyz must be gimp lol" aren't going to help anyone better understand optimal builds. :/

[xbobx]

When something is really bad, eyeballing can net you enough information to base an opinion on. Sure you cannot come up with exact mathematical percentages but if you miss a lot more then you connect, it is noticable.

what about the fact with all the acc you can get in abyessa and you have a horrible hit rate, what is going to happen outside when ACC is even more of a factor?

[HimuraKenshyn]

I have to agree with xbobx heavy strike is very noticeable when compared to all the other spells I am casting. I don't need to parse its hit rate when it's the only one I am having a issue landing >.>. Now that I have switched to str-acc not as much but the thing is understanding how much additional acc is necessary to make it viable in a rotation. I wasn't using food against aura statues wasn't necessary one darkness sc and they died. If BT was missing for me as much as HS was I be a sad panda.

My very first heavy Strike cast whiffed talk about a wtf moment wasting CA+Efflx on it seems waaaaaay waaaaay risky atm.

[Defiledsickness]

The amount of BLUs in this thread that don't even know the basic fundementals of the job are making me sad at the moment. ._.

Some additional information from the BLUs simply eyeballing their hitrate would be amazing - what were you casting in? What food were you using? Subjobs? Vague anecdotes of "well i can hit it 10/12 times on anything so you guyz must be gimp lol" aren't going to help anyone better understand optimal builds. :/

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/231358

ask the right questions instead of only complaining and we'll get somewhere. those saying how no one knows anything but them... how about explaining? if you're not here to help things get better, gtfo seriously. "wow this guy is dumb, lemme tell him that!" thanks lemme just go /wrists.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Mavi earring is just golden and retains my point. +2 STR foot armor is especially confounding.

[Defiledsickness]

fixed the earring for you and for feet i'll buy Areion's Gamashes again, npcd them :P
or maybe creek m clomps so i can use it for vit mod too. if i could get Setanta's Ledelsens i'd happily use them ^^ denali or morrigan's would be good too if i had them.


The amount of BLUs in this thread that don't even know the basic fundementals of the job are making me sad at the moment. ._.every single spell's dmg mod and acc rate, with proper testing listed = Basic fundamentals? these are the official forums not a site dedicated to math majors or anything of the like. instead of being snobby (how you feel intelligent is beyond me) maybe give advice. even if you want to be a dick, at least do so in a beneficial manner.

[Prothscar]

Holy shit how do I respond to this amount of ... yeah.


then the my pure coolness is making me not miss with it then b/c my gear hasint change

You're an idiot.


finally people who dont miss 90% :P

night if you are so intelligent GO TEST! come give us the results after you actually use the spell because other then telling me my posts are wrong you haven't been contributing to finding out anything. just complaining ;P i like the spell yet im still trying to find out about it.

in WoE conflux#9 fighting amhuluk mobs, heavy strike only missed 2 times out of 12 and i cant remember the dmg cuz i was weakened and trying not to die (because it takes 30seconds for the auto-raise +more with all the smn lag) but i remember one of the casts did 600dmg. i was mostly using Sudden Lunge which was stunning them 5-7 seconds ^^ that spell only missed completely once of maybe 20 casts. these are not EP mobs btw. 8.6k Exp at the end.

He doesn't have to waste his time, I've already done it a multitude of times and the data is available if you look for it.


maybe your numbers on Heavy Strike are wrong? it is still very new. does Loki's effect Typhoon during SA? because atm critdmg+ is the biggest damage factor.

No, they aren't wrong. You just don't know how to gear properly.


http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/231358

ask the right questions instead of only complaining and we'll get somewhere. those saying how no one knows anything but them... how about explaining? if you're not here to help things get better, gtfo seriously. "wow this guy is dumb, lemme tell him that!" thanks lemme just go /wrists.

Case and point: you don't know how to gear properly. Holy shit.


fixed the earring for you and for feet i'll buy Areion's Gamashes again, npcd them :P
or maybe creek m clomps so i can use it for vit mod too. if i could get Setanta's Ledelsens i'd happily use them ^^ denali or morrigan's would be good too if i had them.

every single spell's dmg mod and acc rate, with proper testing listed = Basic fundamentals? these are the official forums not a site dedicated to math majors or anything of the like. instead of being snobby (how you feel intelligent is beyond me) maybe give advice. even if you want to be a dick, at least do so in a beneficial manner.

You seem to have trouble grasping these basic fundamentals.

[Defiledsickness]

ok once again; how about a demonstration of these fundamentals? why is my gear bad and what should i focus on? Blu magic skill has tiers that change the base dmg of spells (my skill isnt capped at 95 yet so i just put on magus body and mavi legs for the sake of it, 30skill is always nice). next i take the str mod and the accuracy nerf and proceed to gear every slot with Str or Acc. since i dislike constantly updating gear swaps for 1 spell, i'll re-evaluate my Blu skill when i reach cap.

the 100% Crit rate is the last factor, isnt it? feel free to step in at any time here. now the only CritDmg+ gear i have is Loki's Body. i know Dex effects crit rate so are you saying i should have more dex? it also effects accuracy so dex wont hurt at least. where in my logic am i missing your point??

also you will notice in my gear set it says "outside abyssea" inside crit dmg is far more accessible so loki's could beat magus body. i havent tested everything yet, im on the forum because im not on the game; im using the forum to learn more about the spell. so far i've learned nothing :P

[Prothscar]

ok once again; how about a demonstration of these fundamentals? why is my gear bad and what should i focus on? Blu magic skill has tiers that change the base dmg of spells (my skill isnt capped at 95 yet so i just put on magus body and mavi legs for the sake of it, 30skill is always nice). next i take the str mod and the accuracy nerf and proceed to gear every slot with Str or Acc. since i dislike constantly updating gear swaps for 1 spell, i'll re-evaluate my Blu skill when i reach cap.

the 100% Crit rate is the last factor, isnt it? feel free to step in at any time here. now the only CritDmg+ gear i have is Loki's Body. i know Dex effects crit rate so are you saying i should have more dex? it also effects accuracy so dex wont hurt at least. where in my logic am i missing your point??

also you will notice in my gear set it says "outside abyssea" inside crit dmg is far more accessible so loki's could beat magus body. i havent tested everything yet, im on the forum because im not on the game; im using the forum to learn more about the spell. so far i've learned nothing :P

First off, BLU can't wear sentry belt. Magus Jubbah +1 and Mavi tayt +2 will likely always be superior to other items in those slots until we get more skill in either, which we won't. Cuchulain's cape, Denali/Agrona's Leggings, an earring that isn't mavi or loquacious.

[Defiledsickness]

lol whoops. wouldve been great tho :P guess its warwolf then. still good for RR on war :P
wow cuch cape is almost a 3rd of its old price.

did i post somewhere im broke? because that influences all my AH bought gear. and im working toward a 5-hit cdc build rather then heavy strike.

oh ya i saw the agrona's leggings but not sure i want slow :P its already a long recast. loquacious is until i decide to spend money on str ears or get a good drop from something. and i SAID denali! and you proceeded to say 'noob noob blah blah' so c'mon now. but i was in high school during those days so i never got em.

[Prothscar]

did i post somewhere im broke? because that influences all my AH bought gear. and im working toward a 5-hit cdc build rather then heavy strike.


and im working toward a 5-hit cdc build rather then heavy strike.


working toward a 5-hit cdc build


5-hit cdc build

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD:

[Defiledsickness]

what? 5hits to 100tp, you get that part?

i tried to find your testing or any on HS but its hard with so many pages ;P i hope you found more out on Sudden lunge tho

Will compliment head butt very well, but the 12 second recast won't allow it as a replacement. The stun lasted for 4-5 seconds though. it lasts 6-7 seconds for me on most occasions (as i said earlier). i've replaced headbutt for now, may change if i ever solo something with thundaga4 tho.

edit:
http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=231391
using almace85 and strTrial sword 90. im using wikia math so i could be off on the actual TP im getting, havent tried it yet (still dont have all the gear).

[Prothscar]

I don't know if you're trolling or not, I really don't. :/


what? 5hits to 100tp, you get that part?

Do you know how store tp works? You would need well over 300 store TP to get 100tp in 5 hits with swords.


i tried to find your testing or any on HS but its hard with so many pages ;P i hope you found more out on Sudden lunge tho
it lasts 6-7 seconds for me on most occasions (as i said earlier). i've replaced headbutt for now, may change if i ever solo something with thundaga4 tho.


Early impressions, my review of the spell since then has been immensely favorable.


edit:
http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=231391
using almace85 and strTrial sword 90. im using wikia math so i could be off on the actual TP im getting, havent tried it yet (still dont have all the gear).

Your link doesn't work, but it doesn't have to to tell me that you don't have a 5 hit with a one handed weapon.

[Defiledsickness]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/231391 its cuz i pasted the link while editing my bad

dual wielding swords i have to take tp from each sword then divide by 2? otherwise

12.2 x 1.30 = 15.8 x 1.17 = 16.9 (6hit) /nin for DW3 and set STP JT

[Prothscar]

Did you just multiply TP by 1.3 because you have Dual Wield 3?

Dual wield reduces delay. 30% with DWIII and Suppanomimi. That LOWERS your TP gain. What you have is a 16 hit.

[Defiledsickness]

oh lol so i only need 143 stp if i remove DW

i need to find the formula for tp/delay

[Prothscar]

oh lol so i only need 143 stp if i remove DW

i need to find the formula for tp/delay

No. Just stop. This is a BLU TP set. Use it. (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/55243)

Dusk +1 hands/feet are better than what I have there, that new DA neck piece too.

[Helel]

Yeah, that new DA neck is nice. My post about the accuracy was aimed toward dynamis and abyssea. Obviously heavy strike will be almost useless in VW (I would think). I haven't tried it personally, but I read proth's post regarding Hahava.

I can't tell if magus jubbah +1 or loki's kaftan is better for heavy strike. I'll have to record my numbers when I do dynamis today. They're too close to eyeball. If the kaftan is better, then that would be nice, since it has slightly more acc. The alcide's +1 body would be interesting to try as well, though it only has crit damage +3%.

[Defiledsickness]

no worries i already have that down http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/207901

for spell dmg is this formula right?

bluskill x 0.11
x2 (3 during efflux)
+3 = D (spells base dmg)

i dont understand floor i guess;
floor (floor(A x A%) + (B x B%)) x a
a = level reduction

so for HS just use (Str x .75) x a

then its
D + fSTR + floor (fStr being your str-mobs vit)

[Pyrobunny]

Holy shit how do I respond to this amount of ... yeah.



You're an idiot.


then suck less.
i have no problems with this spell hitting outside and inside abyssea on NM's/VWNM.

[Prothscar]

then suck less.
i have no problems with this spell hitting outside and inside abyssea on NM's/VWNM.

I stand by my sentiments, you're an idiot. I somehow doubt a likely full aurore BLU is going to be coming close to me. Stand down, toad.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Inb4 sushi/sneak attack

[Prothscar]

Hopefully my obscure Draylo reference (<3) isn't lost on people. In any case, you wouldn't even be safe with sushi. You would need Sneak Attack to land it with consistency.

[Nightfyre]

Inb4 sushi/sneak attack

This. If you're going to make claims that fly against tested results, at least have the presence of mind to give us all the relevant information.

[Pyrobunny]

I stand by my sentiments, you're an idiot. I somehow doubt a likely full aurore BLU is going to be coming close to me. Stand down, toad.

i havint wore that pink crap for months nor am i one of those lolblu that full time af3+2
i'm sorry u cant hit shit u really need to suck less kid.

[Neisan_Quetz]

i havint wore that pink crap for months nor am i one of those lolblu that full time af3+2
i'm sorry u cant hit shit u really need to suck less kid.


This. If you're going to make claims that fly against tested results, at least have the presence of mind to give us all the relevant information.

Got some data other than "I think I'm awesome"?

[Prothscar]

i havint wore that pink crap for months nor am i one of those lolblu that full time af3+2
i'm sorry u cant hit shit u really need to suck less kid.

So your data involves being an incompetent moron on one of the most unintelligent and cesspool-simulating forums about FFXI. I've been 1 up'd gentlemen.

Also I'll have you know that I am 87 years old. I lived through the war and if they couldn't kill me no one will. You children these days don't appreciate what you have, all of your technology would have made our wigs spin. Do yourself a favor sonny and find yourself a hobby that promotes physical movement before you become like my grandson and start growing into a hippopotamus.

[Pyrobunny]

yea its called suck less
on a another note i may not be "the best" but atleast i dont have to sub thf to make HS hit on VWNM

also winning a agrument on the internet is like wining in the special olympics
even if u do win your still retarded

edit: and its obvious i wouldint be able to hit anything if i did have decent gear to do so

[Prothscar]

yea its called suck less
on a another note i may not be "the best" but atleast i dont have to sub thf to make HS hit on VWNM

also winning a agrument on the internet is like wining in the special olympics
even if u do win your still retarded

I'm convinced that you're trolling at this point. There's no way...

[Granny]

Heavy Strike definatly needs to be un-nerfed, with sushi, acc gear caped skill, full blu magic skill merits and so forth, I still find it missing a third of the time or perhaps more. It's like you could get all the acc you could ever want and it will still consistantly miss at least a third of the time or more. Total bs.

[Winrie]

I like the part where all he had to say was suck less. You really showed pro who's da boss bro! Keep up the good work.... One day you'll learn, I hope

[Draylo]

ITT: 5 hit sword builds and imaginary heavy strike hit rate.

[Kitkat]

yea its called suck less
also winning a agrument on the internet is like wining in the special olympics
even if u do win your still retarded

Most blu in this forum have decent or better gear already, you stating a vague statement such as that on top of saying "well I rarely miss so all of you are teh suck" is rather pointless. More or less it is just words of a troll cause you have no data nor gear layout to show you infact have a better hit-rate.

The way it works, without people basically saying you are full of it, is to bring data and show why the data came out this way. You just saying "Suck less" only hurts your disposition because you are expecting people to take you on your word who pretty much live on blu. Doesn't work that way. Like it or don't like it, fact still remains that either you are sacrificing +stat for +acc or there are other factors in play such as feint being used.

[Pyrobunny]

so far i'm useing for HS
with /war sub
Food:sushi/pizza
head: af3+2
body: taranis's harness
hands: Alicide's mitts
waist: anguinus belt
pants: af3+2
feet: homam gambieras
back: sharpEyemantle
capped blu skill+merits

as the post above stated i am sacrificing attack/str for acc
and i'm not saying dont i miss b/c everyone misses
saying you dont miss is saying like you have never died ever in this game ever

i hit for a avg 700-1600 depending what we are fighting (w/o CA/efflux)
with CA/efflux i hit about 1000-3500 depending what we are fighting.

[Kwate]

Eyeballing it, I've had some pretty decent luck with:

ammo: Mavi tathlum (until i get mantis's eye +10 Acc)
head: Aias bonnet
neck: PCC
earrings: stay with tp
body: magus jubbah +1 (unless i read another piece outperforms) (also debating if i should just keep AF3 body piece on)
hands: Palla's bracelets
rings: spiral, rajas
back: cuchulains
waist: warwolf
legs: AF3+2
feet: Homam

don't really use food much tbh.
swords: Almace and DA (thought about offhanding Dex for Acc, but not sure a single spell or losing DoT on aftermath is worth offhand change)

I do get those annoying, gut wrenching misses, but i seem to hit pretty often ranging 800~1400, Eff 1800~2800 (i can't bring myself to gamble CA, I save those for my Quad casts)

[Tashan]

(i can't bring myself to gamble CA, I save those for my Quad casts)

This.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters

[Neisan_Quetz]

Oh hey, did I not already call inb4 sushi.

[Jar]

Guess i need to go Test the acc reduction and make a acc/str build for that spell v.v

[Helel]

I'm using:

Head: Aias bonnet (debating crit damage moogle head with acc +10)
Neck: Ire torque +1
Ears: STR
Body: Loki's
Hands: Alcide +1 or Mv. Bazubands +2. I like the bazubands just for the -recast when I'm in dynamis.
Rings: STR and rajas.
Back: Cuch
Waist: Pipilaka
Legs: Mavi tayt +2
Feet: Denali (have mederi with str +6, but prefer the acc on denali)

Heafoc mitts have too much -acc. I suppose I could go with alkyoneus again, but alas, my inventory space on BLU is 0. Still curious about the alcide +1 body. I'm saving gils atm or I'd buy it.

[Prothscar]

Decent set would be

Aias Bonnet
Kubira Bead Necklace (-3 STR, +5 or so ACC vs. ire +1)
Vulcan
Vulcan
Magus Jubbah +1 (possibly loki's just for the ACC from DEX while still offering decent enough damage)
Enkidu's mitts
Rajas
Vulcan
Cuch
Pipilaka
Mavi +2
Denali/Agrona's


STR/ACC hybrid build. Maybe ACC earrings over STR.

[saevel]

Testingon HS accuracy (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=16&mid=1316602435280804372&h=50&p=1#13)


So after a bit of testing, some results. The sample size isnt huge but can certainly get some idea. I would like to know better how to determine margin or error, so if someone could clue me on on that....

Target: Ladybugs (THF), that are either DC or EM and read High evasion when checked. The equipment for melee and tested spells remained the same.

Melee: 1102/2187 (50.39%)

Sudden Lunge: 204/308 (66.23%) +31 acc (expected for most blue spells)

Benethic Typhoon 85/174 (48.85%) -3 acc (likely 0 acc and doesnt recieve +acc that other spells get)

Vanity Dive 160/172 (93.02%) +85acc (I was suprised by this, initally I assumed all spells simply got the +30 bonus but never dropped my melee % low enough on previous tests to determine this. It might actually be more than this.

Heavy Strike: 49/243 (20.16%) -60 (So.....thats 90 acc off a typical blue spell and 145 acc or more from vanity dive. Since I hit the absolute lowest % possible on acc, IT COULD BE WORSE!!!)


Much worse then I though. -40 is understandable considering the spells cost, but -60~90 is ridiculous and SE is completely off their rocker. I suggest people start making a nice feedback post explaining to SE that the -acc was a little bit too much. They might just change it, who knows.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Testingon HS accuracy (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=16&mid=1316602435280804372&h=50&p=1#13)



Much worse then I though. -40 is understandable considering the spells cost, but -60~90 is ridiculous and SE is completely off their rocker. I suggest people start making a nice feedback post explaining to SE that the -acc was a little bit too much. They might just change it, who knows.

Yeah that's beyond retarded the acc of the spell is a big f u from se imho they made it unusable it even misses trash mobs....

[Scuro]

Its really ridiculous what this spell has been reduced to...

[SpankWustler]

Those results are even more unsettling than Prothescar's Daffy Duck signature. It's pretty much the result I expected to see, but I still feel disappointed somehow.

The epic accuracy of Vanity Dive is interesting to know. I can't think of many situations where I'd find that much bonus accuracy useful, but it's interesting to know all the same.

[Prothscar]

The abyssmal accuracy is nowhere near worth the damage that Heavy Strike does to high level targets when it actually connects. I suspect that they also lowered the damage, potentially via fTP, of the spell along with adding the accuracy penalty.

It's essentially not worth using over any of our other spells, particularly Vanity Dive or Quad. Continuum as they both get a nice size attack bonus and have reasonable accuracy allowing for at least a serviceable damage potential, if not even close to a real DD.

[Demonofhunger]

The abyssmal accuracy is nowhere near worth the damage that Heavy Strike does to high level targets when it actually connects. I suspect that they also lowered the damage, potentially via fTP, of the spell along with adding the accuracy penalty.

It's essentially not worth using over any of our other spells, particularly Vanity Dive or Quad. Continuum as they both get a nice size attack bonus and have reasonable accuracy allowing for at least a serviceable damage potential, if not even close to a real DD.

Yeh, it's pretty clear that the spell is now of minimal use on HNMs and other hard targets. I was doing the Hydra in Grauberg[A] and it was basically doing 60-70% of Vanity Dive with or without CA and Efflux. A later test on IT++ pucks showed basically the same thing.

So it rounds out the trio of "low TP-Feed" spells of Vanity Dive, Vertical Cleave, and Heavy Strike, but it's the one in the trio that has trouble hitting, does lower damage than the other two, can't be used with Sneak Attack, and costs the least in MP.

I suppose it still does crazy damage on normal Too Weak to basic IT mobs, but I don't think we ever had trouble with those, so this means the spell is basically "that spell I use on low level mobs with a lot of HPs like Einherjar mobs."

[Tashan]

I've barely played since the update, but have had enough time to skill and level up.

I'm really pleased with the increased D of the physical spells and Sudden Lunge.

I've barely even toyed with Heavy Strike, and not sure I even will care for making a build for it until I get into content that needs it. I'll just keep uP to date with others.

[Aver]

yea its called suck less
on a another note i may not be "the best" but atleast i dont have to sub thf to make HS hit on VWNM

also winning a agrument on the internet is like wining in the special olympics
even if u do win your still retarded

edit: and its obvious i wouldint be able to hit anything if i did have decent gear to do so

Suck less? The people complaining about this spell are (mostly) top-notch blus. Lemme know when you level out of pink shit.

[Prothscar]

Found another slap in the face with this spell, the fTP was lowered along with the accuracy. Their reasoning behind the accuracy nerf, making it a very powerful spell with a high chance to miss, is completely out the window.

[Granny]

Found another slap in the face with this spell, the fTP was lowered along with the accuracy. Their reasoning behind the accuracy nerf, making it a very powerful spell with a high chance to miss, is completely out the window.

Wow... that sounds about right. That's SE up to it's old tricks like usual.

[Kwate]

Eyeballing it, I've had some pretty decent luck with:

ammo: Mavi tathlum (until i get mantis's eye +10 Acc)
head: Aias bonnet
neck: PCC
earrings: stay with tp
body: magus jubbah +1 (unless i read another piece outperforms) (also debating if i should just keep AF3 body piece on)
hands: Palla's bracelets
rings: spiral, rajas
back: cuchulains
waist: warwolf
legs: AF3+2
feet: Homam

don't really use food much tbh.
swords: Almace and DA (thought about offhanding Dex for Acc, but not sure a single spell or losing DoT on aftermath is worth offhand change)

I do get those annoying, gut wrenching misses, but i seem to hit pretty often ranging 800~1400, Eff 1800~2800 (i can't bring myself to gamble CA, I save those for my Quad casts)

Made some revisions:

ammo: Mavi tathlum
head: Aias bonnet
neck: Chivalrous Chain
earrings: stay with tp
body: Alcide's Harness +1
hands: Palla's bracelets
rings: spiral, rajas
back: cuchulains
waist: Anguinus Belt
legs: AF3+2
feet: Homam

Did some testing last night with gear set changes on La Theine T2 VNM's while attempting to get T3, landed 17/18 didn't jot down exact damage (mainly keeping track of hits vs. misses), had RR/GH/SS, good to see it landing pretty often. I'll play with it more vs. VT~IT and boss types.

Edit: no food

[Nightfyre]

La Theine T2 VNM's
80 cap Abyssea content, the penalty isn't that bad.

[Prothscar]

Low tier 80 cap content at that. :X

[Kitkat]

Found another slap in the face with this spell, the fTP was lowered along with the accuracy. Their reasoning behind the accuracy nerf, making it a very powerful spell with a high chance to miss, is completely out the window.

I knew something was off on this spell other than accuracy. Wasn't able to produce no where near the numbers I could on test server. Max at this point I've reached is mid to upper 5k range with CA/EF. Seems other than trait it really just isn't worth quite as much as we had hoped for initially.

[Defiledsickness]

you easily hit 5k dmg inside abyssea with Razed Ruins alone. more accurate spells are better use of CA and Efflux as the chance of missing on those have been rather high for me :P

but the spell is still useful. 2set points to help make DA or TA and the spell does do good dmg (and pairs up with CDC swapping dex for str). i've had good success on Voidwatch with it as well.

if you think about it, were acc to be improved we wouldnt really use any other spell. the mp efficiency and 100%crit rate would be too much. if anything i would be up for less crit rate with more blu-equips to increase crit rate (the main problem with CDC atm), with the increased acc of course.

[Kwate]

yep, i geared it pretty tight, its a definitely a keeper in my eyes. It really comes down to if the spell is worth gearing in your opinion, but you NEED to gear for this spell to be useful in anyway.

[Rambus]

Can anyone make heavy strike out damage 2 delta thrusts? From a recast standpoint that is what it would have to do for me to use it regularly for damage. Right now it is just a trait spell that I’ll never cast><

acc penalties seems rather pointless for this day and age.

[selond]

No just no. First off if you have to cast two delta thrusts to equal your heavy strike damage then your doing it wrong
1. casting two deltas should never out do a single heavy strike. hell three casts maybe... MAYBE. at that point your just wasting your mp. strike = 32 mp delta thrust = 28 mp
2. yes strike has intense low accuracy, however even on higher nms(void wrought, Hahava and that damn harpy nm whose name escapes me at the moment) im hitting around 70-60% of the time. i tried delta thrust on the harpy and got like 200 damage off it. so idk what your doing but i'm sorry you doing it wrong

[Kwate]

Can anyone make heavy strike out damage 2 delta thrusts? From a recast standpoint that is what it would have to do for me to use it regularly for damage. Right now it is just a trait spell that I’ll never cast><

acc penalties seems rather pointless for this day and age.

I don't spell spam too often tbh, I tend to try and keep up aftermath as much as possible. When I do I tend to lean towards more damaging spells like HS or QC.

[Rambus]

No just no. First off if you have to cast two delta thrusts to equal your heavy strike damage then your doing it wrong
1. casting two deltas should never out do a single heavy strike. hell three casts maybe... MAYBE. at that point your just wasting your mp. strike = 32 mp delta thrust = 28 mp
2. yes strike has intense low accuracy, however even on higher nms(void wrought, Hahava and that damn harpy nm whose name escapes me at the moment) im hitting around 70-60% of the time. i tried delta thrust on the harpy and got like 200 damage off it. so idk what your doing but i'm sorry you doing it wrong

I was playing with both spells trying to get white wind and i really do not like heavy strike, it missed to much and when it hit it was around 900 daamge, delta thrust was 200-400 without a full miss. My point is the acc hit seems stupid.


I don't spell spam too often tbh, I tend to try and keep up aftermath as much as possible. When I do I tend to lean towards more damaging spells like HS or QC.

uuh what is HS? sometimes i used gob rush for fusion but i love QC, shame it dont sc with it.

[Kwate]

It's all personal preference on play style, I love HS, but I sacrificed inven slots to make it effective, its a damn good spell once its geared right. Take a look at some of the previous posts and try some of the gear sets, you might have better luck.

[Defiledsickness]

well i sacrifice a lot less inventory using Str gear then using AGI gear for benthic typhoon (i use no other spell that needs agi ;P). most spells use str or str/X. i believe savage blade has a Str mod as well (str/vit i think like a few spells).

as to delta thrust vs heavy strike, 2 deltas would be x6hits (if you land them all) giving the mob a lot of tp. if you really think a mob spamming Abilities on you doesnt matter... your input doesnt really matter. if you're killing EP mobs then sure, go with delta. it will be quicker then dealing with misses.

i would think the best body to use is Magus Jubbah or Loki's Kaftan (for heavy strike).

[Neisan_Quetz]

Str/Mnd for Savage Blade... Delta Thrust gives plague, bar NMs because it never lands.

[Transmit]

Heavy Strike is just such a mixed bag for me right now. I find the spell a fantastic low MP cost to high damage move, and it works great on most lower content (and yes I include visions and scars Abyssea zones in this, and a fair bit of Heroes.). But last night my LS and I were doing Qilin, one of the new end tier VW mobs, basically Kirin v2, and I was utterly useless at him.

My best Vanity Dives were hitting 400-500 (under CA and Efflux, even worse without), any sword WS's failed immensely, and my melee hits were forgetable at best, all the usual spells just failed to do anything note worthy.

This is the sort of fight in which Heavy Strike was supposed to shine in, what it was made for, fights where our current aresnal of spells just don't cut it. But no, Heavy Strike Acc nerf meant even with as much Acc as I could cram into every slot, I missed every single Heavy Strike I did. Please SE re-think the nerf on this, and change it to an increased recast or increased MP cost (or both!), I honestlly don't care about losing a spell thats good on low level content, in exchange for getting a spell that can give us some respect at high level content.

[Dreamin]

Aren't we just proc monkey for VW like how we used to be at the beginning of Abyssea before the spell fix? I mean how the heck do you get to keep anything worth while (of offensive based) on if you have to keep 3-4 elemental magic spells on (and have to switch them mid fight)? I dont know about anyone else but I have a hard enough time just keeping up with the elemental magic switching and staying out of the way and staying alive (with Fana or Fool to get close enough to cast).

[Transmit]

Well thats an entirely seperate problem of BLU in VW, but it should'nt really come into consideration too much when just talking about how well BLU can deal damage to the final tier NMs right now.

Unless we get lucky and cap out our lights pretty quickly I spend the entire fight rotating spells and literally doing nothing else, and half the time you set all your spells you see someone else hit the proc on BLM etc and have to start all over again is enough to drive me insane, another plea for "Spell sets" prz.

But we do have fights were we cap out red and blue procs swift enough to try some actual DDing on blu, and its a depressing sight.

[Afania]

Aren't we just proc monkey for VW like how we used to be at the beginning of Abyssea before the spell fix? I mean how the heck do you get to keep anything worth while (of offensive based) on if you have to keep 3-4 elemental magic spells on (and have to switch them mid fight)? I dont know about anyone else but I have a hard enough time just keeping up with the elemental magic switching and staying out of the way and staying alive (with Fana or Fool to get close enough to cast).

I only reset spells for HQ lights, or when there's particular element that stays for very long time and no one else can get, and even during cool down time I can still contribute like other DDs with temp+WS. SJ is usually /WAR if playing offensively, berserk/warcry helps with WS dmg, and aggressor is useful. /RDM or /WHM if playing in more supportive style, Stoneskin+magic def bonus helps with survive-ability when getting close too, macro in MDT- gear when necessary also helps a lot too.

Heavy strike is good for VW, but in order to land in VW you need A LOT of acc gears. I mean, A LOT. And quite possibly agressor/sushi. Also some spells isn't very useful in VW, so I just remove them and have enough room to set one set of element.

Also BLU isn't just proc monkeys even at the beginning of Abyssea.....I mean, yes, ppl invite BLUs for proc, but doesn't mean you should just stand there and only do procs. There are a lot of other stuff you can do, even if the dmg isn't top tier.

[Afania]

Well thats an entirely seperate problem of BLU in VW, but it should'nt really come into consideration too much when just talking about how well BLU can deal damage to the final tier NMs right now.

Unless we get lucky and cap out our lights pretty quickly I spend the entire fight rotating spells and literally doing nothing else, and half the time you set all your spells you see someone else hit the proc on BLM etc and have to start all over again is enough to drive me insane, another plea for "Spell sets" prz.

But we do have fights were we cap out red and blue procs swift enough to try some actual DDing on blu, and its a depressing sight.

Since most of the time it's BLM proc, there's really no need to switch spells every second....just do it when no one hit that particular element long enough, and reset on HQ lights, but most of the NQ lights can be ignored tbh.

BLU dmg isn't top tier, but it should be at least on same lv as NIN no? And should be better than PLD? If you want to complain about bad dmg on this job, then probably 50% of jobs on the job list needs to complain too since the only DD that's really good in VW is pretty much just (ukko)WAR and RNG only, everything else is really just there for proc........

[Transmit]

I don't generally class PLD as a DD at Voidwatch, it's not the role of the job (though good if they can do it along with tanking). BLM, WAR, RNG, MNK, SAM, DRG, DRK, SMN, SCH, COR etc all have reliable ways of doing damage on most final tier VW mobs, sure it's not always stellar damage, but it's good enough to warrent a spot in the alliance. All I'm saying is when SE gives us a spell designed to make us more useful in high end fights like the current final tiers of VW (Which they said themselves it was for), then it's ridiculous that they give it a nerf which makes it useless in the situations it was intended for.

[Nightfyre]

PLD's TP gain is quite good with shield blocks, what are you guys on about disregarding PLD's damage output? Nevermind it's the only way they have a chance of maintaining hate and that they're generally the one(s) with the highest amount of time spent engaged unless you're using DD tanks.

Setting up for CDC (Fanatic's up) and Regurgitation (when down) has given me far better output than Heavy Strike ever could honestly, and I don't have to worry about being in range (aside from stupid short range procs) when temps are down. As others have mentioned, don't sweat procs aside from HQs and maybe NQs that nobody else has been able to proc if you need lights or temps.

[Transmit]

I don't think anyones talking down on PLD here. I just think in a comparisons of DD's argueing PLD has more reasons to moan than a BLU is a bit odd considering their main role.