Bhaflau Remnants - The worst Salvage Zone

[noodles355]

Let's look at the NM pop conditions for the four Salvage Zones:

Arrapago Remnants

Qiqirn Astrologer (1): Always up from the start.
Qiqirn Treasure Hunter (1): Always up from the start.
Qiqirn Treasure Hunter (2): Always up from the start.
Deviate Bhoot (NM): Always up from the start.
Psycheflayer: Always up from the start.
Qiqirn Astrologer (2): Spawned upon opening the door to the Teleporter up.
Archaic Chariot: Spawned upon opening the door to the Teleporter up.
Qiqirn Treasure Hunter (3 & 4): Spawned upon clearing the 6th floor in 7 minutes.

Astrologer (2) and Chariot have to be popped to reach the next level. At level 90 it's very easy to clear the room in under 7 minutes with three characters to pop Treasure Hunter (3) and (4). You have to choose between Psycheflayer and Deivate Bhoot, but whichever you choose will be up 100%.
Every NM is either easilly popped or already up from the start. Astrologer (1) has a chance to escape (soe does (2) but it's much harder for him to escape).

Zhayolm Remnants

Poroggo madame (5F): Popped by fully unlocking 3 players.
Poroggo madame (6F): Popped by killing 3 Madames from below floors + Jakko.

Fully unlocking three players is very easy. To pop the 6F poroggo you need to kill either 4 Madame NMs, or 3 and Jakko:
Jakko (SSR Card pop item)
Poroggo Madame (2F): Popped by trading cells.
Poroggo Madame (3F): Popped by reaching 3rd floor in under 30 minutes.
Poroggo Madame (4F): Popped by clearing mamools+rampart.
Poroggo Madame (5F): Popped by fully unlocking gear.
The only challenging one is the 30 Minute frog. But you don't need her if you pop Jakko.
All in all, easy to pop the 35 NMs.

Silver Sea Remnants

Hammerblow Majanun: Popped by killing the formers in the room.
Dekka: Popped after killing Deadpan Devilet. Deadpan is always up.
Gyroscopic Gears: Popped by killing all the gears in the room.
Gyroscopic Gear: Popped by killing all the gears in the room.
Citadel Chelonian: Kill 4 ramparts int he room. Ramaprt will pop which summons NM 100% of the time.

You can not pop every NM in the zone, you have to choose. However, once you have chosen which NM path you wish to pop then it is very easy to pop them.

Bhaflau Remnants

Gate Widow: Kill Mad Bomber in under 75 seconds to access rampart. Rampart has very low chance to pop NM.
Skirmish Pephredo: Kill the 4 Flans on the floor under specific conditions (with spikes on their head) to access rampart. Rampart has very low chance to pop NM.
Zebra Zachery: kill the two Archaic Gears mobs at the same time to access rampart. Rampart has a very low chance to pop NM.
Peryton: Kill all 10 Archaic Gears on the floor. If they aggro or link with each other, they depop. Wind weather increases the aggro/link range. If you take longer than 60 seconds to kill them, they will warp away. Kill all 10 without any warping to gain access to Rampart. Rampart has a very low chance to pop NMs.

Out of all the zones, three of them are straight forward. AR takes some player skill to stop the Archaeologist (1) warping away, but even if he does you can kill Archaeologist (2) which has the same drops. ZR takes some player skill if you want to kill the 30min frog. However, with Jakko that kill is not required to pop the last NM. In SSR you have to choose which NMs you want to do, but they will be 100% pops when you choose.

In Bhaflau Remnants you have to jump through hoops just to get access to the room with the NM. Whilst for the first three Ramparts the requirements arn't overly difficult, the same can not be said for the 4th rampart. Even the most experianced of pullers can still mess up and link a gear due to lag. For example: You hit your ranged macro. just before it fires, a gear moves into link range. It's too late for you to interupt your shot. The second gear warps away. One mistake. One case of bad luck and you completely lose access to the Rampart.

Furthermore, upon actually getting to the rampart, there is a very high chance that the NM wont pop at all. Yes, there is also a chance that it could pop more than once, but the majority of the time you wont see it. Then of course it has a low drop rate, but that isn't the issue here and has already been increased from what it used to be.

The fact remains that BR is the only zone where even if you are the best and most skilled players in the game, it is still possible to not see a single NM. The final rampart in BR leaves no room for any error, and a mob moving a second too late means it's game over. Concidering the requirements to pop the NMs in other zones, this seems rediculous.

Why is BR so much harder to pop the NMs than other zones?

Soon we will be bringing in augments to salvage gear (supposedly) to increase their utility like was done with sky gear. When this is implamented I believe it would be a good time to make some changes to BR:


Lower the requirement to gain access to Peryton's Rampart from "kill all 10 Archaic Gears without them warping" to a lower amount such as "Kill 6 of the 10 archaic gears without them warping".

Increase the pop rate (not the drop rate) of the NMs spawned form the ramparts in BR. If the NM is linked to just one of the regular mobs popped (I believe there are 4 or 5 that can spawn?), then change it so all of the NQ mobs are PHs.

[Helel]

The last part of your post is slightly incorrect. The regular mobs spawning from the ramparts are not PH's. This was an old theory that was debunked a long time ago. The NM simply has a random chance of popping from the rampart, and has nothing to do with the regular mobs.

Also, I hate to be "that guy" that acts like he's super awesome, but pulling all ten gears is extremely easy... I'm not sure what the problem is? Are you having difficulties with wind weather? If wind weather pops it's almost impossible to pull them without links. If SE is going to change anything about the final rampart, it should be to remove wind weather from the zone. But, even if they don't, you have to consider the possibility of not getting ranged weapons or rings in ZR. There are other instances in the salvage zones where you can't kill a certain NM because of bad luck. I agree though that the ramparts are somewhat ridiculous compared to other NMs, and the NM should spawn at least once per run.

[Juilan]

The last times i did a 10/10 on the 4th rampart in BR I was so ripped I could see 3x gears (so i saw 6 or 9 in a room). I don't like the linking condition at all, I wish I could just run into the room and link/kill them all in about 1min total for the triple room, rather than waiting 5 or so/per pull for them to stop cuddling. Would at least allow us to take 2 or 3 ramparts to ~50% while having an enfeebled homing missile, which is some what counter intuitive to begin with since its the only zone that is known that the gears have that effect. A couple of them might have that effect (ZR and AR come to mind) but killing all the gears is required to open the door. I know for a fact thats not the case with SSR though. I just wonder if they're doing something like a lv ~90 zone for salvage that could be slightly more challenging than the correct ones.
As for the gear comment about Helel I've encountered server lag that triggered them to warp. I want your connection to the server :p

The pop rates on the NMs in BR have bugged me to the point where I won't do that zone unless I'm after a 25 since AR gives a good amount of alex and I don't have to waste time on something not showing up... emo birds....

[Rearden]

Shh about AR.

10/10 gears is easy, I do it with MNK+THF lol. Ramparts, those suck. Spamming BR for 25's that don't drop sucks too.

[Gokku]

did a BR run last night , farmed 1/2 floor + boss and 3 mins on the 4th floor.

Set up Whm Monk Thf : All geared very well

1st floor Rampart farmed to 60% no pops * 1 alex on kill*
2nd floor 7pops resulting in 7 coin purses 1 skadi head 35 1 usu feet 35 *reason we were there*
3rd floor Skipped
4th Floor farmed to 80% no pops
Boss no pouch drop
3mins left at the end of the run
Total Alexandrite 99 exactly.

Although the runs may be random for spawning when you do get a spawn its usually in droves , now we normally do AR or SSR to farm alex * avg of 60-150 a run*. I do wonder if it would be more reasonable to have a set amount of varying spawns per rampart per run.

Example :
1st floor ramp : 100 chance on every run it will spawn 1-8 NM's in its 100% but that 1 to 8 would be a set number chosen at the start of the run. it would force people to chose if they want to farm for awhile or not , while still making it a rare spawn and more often for everyone then it is now.

* reason for 8 is that's the most ive ever seen a single rampart spawn*

also they need to up the drop rate of ZR boss morri legs its bullshit

[noodles355]

The problem is bad luck with pathing/positioning/moving for the gears. But do concider that technically, we have no way to determine if the gears are in aggro range as we can't acurately measure their distance apart without using 3rd party tools.
But like I said, you could be the most experianced at salvage but that other gear in the room could move 0.1 yalms into link range just as you pull at the point where it's too late to cancel the action and warp.

It's not difficult per se, however can eat up a rediculous amount of time waiting for positioning, it can also be screwed up by one mob with random movement patterns moving a split second too early, and as mentioned, if you have wind weather you may aswell give up from the start. There are other aspects where popping NMs is based on luck, but this is by far the most rediculous. Even the most experianced puller can still have hiccups. The tiniest mistake and it's game over.
As stated above technically you can unlucky with Virga and undulus cells in ZR, however I can not remember the last time we didn't have enough for 3 after killing the cell duplicating frog.

My proposal for changing the 6F gears is because it takes much less error and more luck to successfully pull them than any other part of salvage. The margin of error is so small and one mistake means you lose access.
As for changing the pop conditions of the NMs on the ramparts, I can see we're all pretty much in agreement that they are rediculous in comprison to other NMs. Whatever method SE decides to take in changing this, as long as it involves making them have a 100% chance of popping at least once upon reaching the rampart, then I'll be happy.

It's the only zone where you have to do stupid tasks just to get the oppertunity to possibly see a NM that might rarely drop a piece of gear.

One could also link this to the issue of Alexandrite. With so few people doing salvage, there is so little in circulation, and prices are meaning a mythic weapon will cost you around 300 mil Gil. This has been discussed in other topics. But making each rampart in BR have NMs forced pop a certain number of times would also increase the amount of Alex being released into the system.

[katz]

It cant possibly be the worst, its the only zone our linkshell ever did.

[Kitkat]

The worst part of this zone really is getting the NM's to pop out of the Ramparts. Everything else, hoops or not, is so easy to do low man. Even when the cap was 75 the zone wasn't necessarily hard, so much as the spawn conditions of the NM are absolutely horrible from Rampart. I recall about 5 runs now where we haven't even seen one NM come out of the rampart, but on other runs we saw as many as 3. Really is just luck of the draw on it spawning.

[noodles355]

Exactly, and the fact that in every other salvage zone you are garanteed to see an NM, yet in Bhaflau you are not is, I believe, silly and needing a change.

[Fondle]

Exactly, and the fact that in every other salvage zone you are garanteed to see an NM, yet in Bhaflau you are not is, I believe, silly and needing a change.

This, been doing salvage daily for about 2 months now. In those 2 months we've done 27 Bhaflau runs simply because this zone is absolutely retarded. Our 3 man group sam+thf+whm has seen 2 spider nms and 2 peryton nms, in 27 runs and all 4 of those nms were on the same run.

Before I waste more countless hours of my life doing this any more of these horrible, boring runs cockblocking what little salvage gear I have left to get, are there any programmed triggers to popping nms in these zones or is it really as depressingly random and time wasting as it appears atm

oh we do 1f 2f 4f ramparts + boss every run

[Monchat]

The devs will probably answer you that bhaflau's very high cell drop rate is balanced by the crappy rampart system. Hate on 4F rampart. Id rather have few cell drop like in arrapago, because the overwhelming numer of cells inbhaflau can slow you down .

[Malamasala]

People imply that there are good salvage zones?

[Kimble]

People imply that there are good salvage zones?

Don't be stupid please.

[Fondle]

Bamping for another worthless BR run, hoooray 13 alex and 2 25's I've seen a hundred times

[Camiie]

The devs will probably answer you that bhaflau's very high cell drop rate is balanced by the crappy rampart system. Hate on 4F rampart. Id rather have few cell drop like in arrapago, because the overwhelming numer of cells inbhaflau can slow you down .


They probably count cells as drops in Salvage the same way they count logs as drops in VW. To them, logs are just as much loot as HQ bodies or weapons.

[Dazusu]

In Bhaflau Remnants you have to jump through hoops just to get access to the room with the NM.

There are 4 rooms with NMs. Three of them are stupidly easy. Too easy one might add - even at Level 75. Kill a bomb in <60 seconds, kill 4 flans without skill chaining or causing excessive elemental damage, The final one is to kill 8 gears.

The fourth floor requires a bit more time and patience and some accurate pulling - which means you need a little skill (is that the hard part?). The only time you get screwed over is due to Wind weather. You have the option of waiting for that to pass.

At no point did I find myself jumping through hoopage to get into any rooms.


One mistake

Don't you understand the beauty of not winning every time? It's repeatable content.

What's up with all the "this is too hard, make it easier" threads? For content that's been around for years no less. Sounds like you had a bad run in with it recently.

As for the NM pop rate in Bhaflau, agree. That needs upping a bit more. They are pretty dire and very depressing when they're the only chance at 35s in the zone. However, I guess a community reps response would be: When you see the NMs, the drop rate is pretty high - which, let's be honest, it is.

[Kimble]

I dunno, ive hand plenty of runs where id get a rampart to pop 5 or 6 NMs and they would still drop nothing.

[Dazusu]

I dunno, ive hand plenty of runs where id get a rampart to pop 5 or 6 NMs and they would still drop nothing.

Crappy luck :(

[Fondle]

Stardate 2/27/2012; Captain's Log:
WHAT THE FUCK BEES, STILL NO BEE FROM 2F RAMPART THIS IS STUPID I HATE BHAFLAU

[Taint2]

I've done BR 100 times if not more. The one wish I have is to be able to know if the Rampart is On or Off.

Is a NM going to come out or not, I hate wasting 15minutes killing too weak mobs. It would be nice if you knew when you got to the rampart so you could focus on the next floor.

[Fondle]

3 more bhaf, no bees, no perytons, no linens

why do I keep doing this shit

[Sapphires]

Bumping this because I hate this zone so damn much.
People's renewed interest in doing this zone because of salvage II makes me wanna cut myself.

16 alex singles, no pouches or NMs. Havent had a NM pop in several runs.

Worst battle content design ever.

[Sargent]

It's getting adjusted. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-(NO-DISCUSSION)?p=5522045&viewfull=1#post5522045)

[klvino]

Bumping thread as Bhaflau is now even worse of a zone. The 4th Floor Gears warp out immediately after aggro, pull, any damage done to them whatsoever.

You must now kill each gear in 5 seconds or less, effectively requiring you to one-shot all the gears.

[Crevox]

Was it necessary to necro a 2 year old thread instead of making a new one?

[Tidis]

Bumping thread as Bhaflau is now even worse of a zone. The 4th Floor Gears warp out immediately after aggro, pull, any damage done to them whatsoever.

You must now kill each gear in 5 seconds or less, effectively requiring you to one-shot all the gears.

You're probably doing the gears incorrectly, if they aggro you or link with another gear they warp out, supposedly abilities that do damage make them warp out to so you have to use non-damaging JA's or ranged attacks to pull them. If done successfully they don't warp out but will do if you don't kill them in 60 seconds.

[Sapphires]

If its windy weather the aggro+link radius is amplified on gears to at least 15-20ish yalms. Most people completely forget this, it also applies in nyzul/NNI.

When I had to do those last gears in bhaf we would wait for the windy weather to pass since proper pulling without links is near impossible from that room.

[Atomic_Skull]

Bumping thread as Bhaflau is now even worse of a zone. The 4th Floor Gears warp out immediately after aggro, pull, any damage done to them whatsoever.

You must now kill each gear in 5 seconds or less, effectively requiring you to one-shot all the gears.

You're doing it wrong, I soloed that floor and killed all the gears successfully yesterday. You just have to be patient and wait for them to separate before pulling. Watching them on widescan helps a lot with this.