Things neglected from Job Adjustments Manifesto….

[tablez]

Hello Camate, Devs, Community,

I just saw you providing some updates for PUP pertaining to the rise to lvl 99. Although I welcome some of the devs responses and additions to RDM, Can we PLEASE get some kind of update on the things that were mentioned in the Job Adjustments Manifesto that we have absolutely no idea about?

Example #1:
Job Adjustments Manifesto post on 7/15/2011

Under "RDM Example Adjustments":
New enfeebling magic spells.

What could we be expecting with this??? With all the melee and hybrid gear topics posted, this is all I really care about and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Example #2:
Job Adjustments Manifesto post on 7/15/2011

"Additional Planned Adjustments"
Adjustments to enfeebling magic.

Some insight would be great.

And for the melee crowd, same topic, "Weapon skill refinements" any changes coming to RDM???

And for all RDMs, same topic,
Revisions to job-specific merit point enhancement attributes. Again, some insight would be nice.

It just seems to me that this information was posted giving false hope to RDMs because when the Job Adjustments post came on 8/19/2011, it mentioned NOTHING of what was stated from the Manifesto post except for Spontaneity (which I could live without). All RDMs see the the job falling far behind all other mage classes in all aspects and all I really want is to actually EXCEL at enfeebling. WHM gets addle and we get temper??:confused: Temper is a nice addition for when we want to have some FUN, but its not going to get us invites. Forget Cure V, (although some kind of cure potency boost after convert would be nice) and give me Amnesia! Forgive me if I missed any previous posts about the things I mentioned.

{Please assist.}

[Rayik]

"Getting invites" only has to do with the flavor-of-the-month event going on in game. Entire mechanics do not need to be reworked to get us more invites. Were you a RDM 75 back in the pink bird party days? You got invites as soon as you job-changed in your mog house, even with your flag down.

Camate was in one of the other threads a few weeks ago and said that RDM specifically was being looked at for the WS adjustments. No word yet on exactly what those mysterious adjustments are going to be, but yes, they're working on it. I'd love to get Vorpal Blade and Sanguine, but I'd be just as happy if they made Savage Blade worth a damn.

[Shiyo]

1) Do you need refresh 2? No? Go to #2 Yes? Go to #3
2) Invite another WHM or any other job in the game
3) Do you have a bard? No? Go to 4 Yes? go to 5
4) Invite a bard
5) Do you need any other spell in the entire game besides refresh 2? No? Go to 6 Yes? go to 2
6) Invite RDM mule to refresh2 and do nothing else

[Crimson_Slasher]

1) Do you need constructive contribution to your red mage topic? No? Go to #6 Yes? Go to #2
2) Is it about Redmage magics? No? Go to #5 Yes? Go to #6
3) Does this magic affect party mechanics? No? Go to #4 Yes? Go to #5
4) Does this magic affect melee capabilities? No? Go to #5 Yes? See alternate threads.
5) Want inteligent conversation and debate on this subject? No? Go to #6 Yes? Begin conversing.
6) Shine the Shiyo signal and enjoy.

Lather, rinse, repeat as needed, just keep a scroll of instant warp ready, because it gets old really fast.

[cidbahamut]

"Getting invites" only has to do with the flavor-of-the-month event going on in game. Entire mechanics do not need to be reworked to get us more invites. Were you a RDM 75 back in the pink bird party days? You got invites as soon as you job-changed in your mog house, even with your flag down.
Question: are we differentiating between getting invites to random PUGs and how often you're told to come on job X to a linkshell event?

[Hyrist]

Question Seconded. But does it really matter?

PUGs are laughable way to try to justify changes in a job to begin with. They're probably the most effected by fads unless you have a friend already in the group.

And 'getting told' what job to be on in a linkshell is a matter of degrees. If someone is making your participation on a job you don't want to be on mandatory, then it's a matter telling the group to screw off and find someone who actually uses the job you're wanting to play. (Cause face it, if you let yourself be a welcome mat, people wipe the feces on their shoes all over you.) But that's usually more of an issue with "We've Already got X number of RDMs for this event, come as something else. Abyssea should not be factored in job consideration debates, as it's a debate of "who can proc?" more than anything else.)

It's not as if RDM is lacking for uses, it's just needing to be better at them without curb-stomping all over every other job, like it spent the better part of the last decade doing. (Has procs, no UNIQUE procs. Has Cures, but Curing falling behind gradually, etc.)

[Rayik]

Question: are we differentiating between getting invites to random PUGs and how often you're told to come on job X to a linkshell event?

Adding to what Hyrist said; does it really matter? The original statement of "getting invites" was very vague, so I answered in a vague way that still pertained to a time when it was almost impossible not to get invites. Parties are always clamoring for some kind of healing, so even if you're a back line wannabe WHM you should still get those precious "invites."

I play with a small group of RL friends and family. It all depends on the situation we are getting into, as to who brings what job. We have a WHM and a full time BLM in our group, but when our main tank friend is unavailable, the WHM switches to tank, and I tend to come RDM for support and heals, sometimes melee. If our tank is on, I come WAR for procs and DD. It completely depends on what we're up against, and we adjust to what jobs we need for that situation. I ask the more experienced players what role I'll be in the group, and I choose what job I feel can fit that role best. I've even come DRK to some events because someone else already had WAR covered, and DRK gets a couple Blue procs WAR doesn't.

If you want to come to your groups event as RDM, just do so, or at least tell them before the start of the event that you'd like to be RDM that time. If you sit back and let other people tell you what job to play against your will, that's your problem. Maybe my group of friends is unique or something, but we simply play the jobs we feel best covers the role unless it's something really, really specific.

[cidbahamut]

I'd say it does matter since the two scenarios give very different information and I've seen a few posts here and there that seem to use the two interchangeably.

[Hyrist]

They might be different situations, but not only do they come with the same solution (get friends) when regarding playing the job of your choice, but it's flawed logic to begin with trying to garner changes to a job's performance based off of invitation rate.

This goes doubly for Red Mage because it dropped from prestige position. Red Mages who are used to the swarming droprates and the constant demands are going to feel more of a shell shock, than those who are more accustomed to not being in high demand, and actually having to compete against prestige classes.

Simply put, a lot of this bawwing is because RDM is out of vogue. And honestly, I believe that's actually a good thing for the job, as the core parts of the job, such as enhancing and enfeebling.

[Shiyo]

Question: are we differentiating between getting invites to random PUGs and how often you're told to come on job X to a linkshell event?
I don't care if a LS tells me "COME RDM DO ABYSSEA ZOMG!", my LS knows my stance on this. I'm RDM main and outright told them I will never ever come RDM to abyssea again, it's worthless, i feel useless, and it's very boring to play inside. That's ok cause we all need a ninja and I have kannagi~

No one is ever going to invite a RDM(by invite I mean ls leader/sack/etc calling out peoples jobs) for anything unless they need refresh2, that is literally all we bring to the table. It's pathetic, but true. We are not a very wanted job anymore, and melee buffs do not help that. Wish SE devs played this game.

[noodles355]

I just want more, or higher tiers, or both, Enfeebling and Enhancing Magic so that I have a more worthwhile role in an alliance setting against hard enemies. I really want them to buff the mage side of the job. Melee is fun and all, but I dont see the use for it against things that actually matter, things you would take a full alliance to. I'd welcome getting all the sword WSs and a better range of WS gear of course, but Melee for me is just be for fun. I see no place for melee on tough endgame mobs, nor do I want to try and wedge myself into a melee role there, I feel I'd be more worthwhile leaving the melee do dedicated melees whilst I take out my staves and support from the rear. I'm content doing melee stuff in other areas of the game.

But in full on alliance difficult HNM fights, I dont feel like I play as big a role as I could. And that's what I'd like to see changed. As mentioned a hundred times, making merit spells obtainable from scrolls and the merits affect potency would be welcome. These are the sorts of spells I'd like to see added:
Aquaviel II (Target castable Aquaviel, similar to Phalanx II)
Stoneskin II (Increased cast time/recast/more damage absorbed)
A Spell negating/reducing damage from severe attacks like Brd and Nin get.
Dispelga (Doesn't have to dispel everything, maybe at max 2 or 3 buffs, but wouldn't get eaten by utsusemi shadow)
Debuff spells that inflict statuses such as Inhibit TP, Plague or Amnesia (Plague doesn't need to be strong, and amnesia could be inaccurate with short duration).
Debuffs that inflict statuses like Attack Down, Defence Down, Magic Attack Down, Magic Defence Down, Evasion Down, Magic Evasion Down that aren't linked to other properties such as DoT or -movement.

Some of those sorts of things and I'd be happy with Rdm's mage side.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] if nothing else RDM is needed for triggers.....

PS. To the previous post "Evasion down and -movement speed" exists it's called Gravity, and Gravity 2 is coming.

[saevel]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] if nothing else RDM is needed for triggers.....

PS. To the previous post "Evasion down and -movement speed" exists it's called Gravity, and Gravity 2 is coming.

LOL

The evasion down effect of gravity is -10 and lasts a few seconds. On top of that, it doesn't work on NMs.

So ... try again?

[saevel]

And if you must be asinine, here is exactly what I'm talking about.

-40 Evasion (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Shield_Break)
-25% Defense (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Armor_Break)
-25% Attack (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Weapon_Break)
-12.5% Attack, Defense -20 Evasion and Accuracy (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Full_Break)

They already exist, it would be trivial for SE to make spell forms of these type of debuffs. Monsters already use various moves to inflict upon us, attack down, defense down, accuracy down, evasion down, magic attack down, magic defense down, and possibly magic evasion down.

Those are the debuffs we need, that won't be resisted by NM's.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

LOL

The evasion down effect of gravity is -10 and lasts a few seconds. On top of that, it doesn't work on NMs.

So ... try again?

It's that low? seriously?

Anyway, my point was most that Gravity 2 was coming with the enfeebling fix so will less likely be crazy movement speed and more Evasion down.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The problem is NMs building resistance/immune, otherwise it should last ~30 seconds minimum unresisted. Of course, most of the NMs it does last on Post RoZ it doesn't matter because you could probably kill it faster without gravity.

T2 needs to be a sizeable upgrade over the T1 and/or the weight effect's move speed reduction and evasion effects need to be considered separate effects since SE apparently has an issue with move speed reduction on NMs.

[saevel]

It's that low? seriously?

Anyway, my point was most that Gravity 2 was coming with the enfeebling fix so will less likely be crazy movement speed and more Evasion down.

Gravity is more about slowing down the mobs movement, the evasion down effect is just a kinda there, but the monster will be moving usually so melee's chasing it.

And wiki is lieing, Gravity doesn't last 120s, more like 60s tops on an unresistant normal mob. On any NM your lucky to get 10s or more if the NM isn't straight immune like all the newer ones are.