Dynamis: high tier fight = low tier reward

[Yinnyth]

It has been 4 months and 4 days since Dynamis received its fateful changes, and we soon face the transformation of the CoP areas as well. In light of this, I would like to raise an issue which I feel has received too little attention.

Subject:
The harder enemies in Dynamis boast little to no incentive for killing. The difficulty vs. reward does not properly scale.

Elaboration:
The higher tier NMs and neo boss of each zone have a few pieces of gear, though only about 4 or 5 of these pieces of gear are even situationally useful, 3 of which could admittedly be considered really good: the oneiros grip, avesta bangles, and sagasinger from Jeuno, Beaucedine, and Xarcabard neobosses, respectively.

The amount of work required to farm, pop, and kill the neoboss of a zone can be a little bit ridiculous, however, and even should you manage all that, there is a chance that the neoboss will drop nothing. Yes, I just finished a Jeuno neoboss kill where we had TH6 on him and he dropped nothing. Even when he doesn't drop nothing, we tend to wind up with the other drops we don't really want. Out of 8 Jeuno neoboss kills, we have gotten 1 oneiros grip. Out of 4 Beaucedine neoboss kills, we have gotten 1 set of avesta bangles. As far as Xarc goes, we've tried, but we just don't have enough members to take down Arch Dynamis Lord.

The reason I say it's backwards is because higher tier enemies (the EM-IT enemies in Dynamis) have the same currency drop rate as the lower tier enemies, and CURRENCY is the major draw to dynamis. Yes, that's right, it's possible to solo a relic weapon if you have enough time on your hands, but it takes half a dozen people if you want a 25% chance at an Oneiros Cluster (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Oneiros_Cluster). This is my primary complaint right now. Why would people join my Dynamis LS when they can solo everything they want from Dynamis? How do I reward the players who stay in my LS without simply just farming low tier stuff every run to maximize our currency?

Proposed solutions:
1. Double the drop rate of currency from higher tier normal enemies.
2. Triple the hundo drop rate on the 4 neo NMs in each zone.
3. Make it so the neo boss of each city zone has a 100% drop rate on a hundo. 2 for Arch Angra, all 3 for Arch D.Lord.
4. Revisit the stats on most of the oneiros and demonry equipment.
5. When you add the ability augment relic armor, make higher tier augmenting items which drop from the higher tier enemies.

In closing:
I would like to point out that I'm not saying Dynamis is too hard; if anything, I would like it to be even harder. I'm merely disgusted with the lack of incentive for attempting to fight the higher tier enemies. It reminds me Diabolos in Dynamis - Tavnazia. My LS has managed over 30 kills on individual versions of Diabolos, and we were even the first LS to kill all 4 versions in a single run (back when the level cap was still 75), yet we have never seen ANYTHING drop off Diabolos. Higher in difficulty than simply farming the normal enemies in Tav, yet there was 0 reward for doing so.

[Leonlionheart]

kind of the same issue as voidwatch, lots of work for small rewards

[SpankWustler]

Proposed solutions:
1. Double the drop rate of currency from higher tier normal enemies.
2. Triple the hundo drop rate on the 4 neo NMs in each zone.
3. Make it so the neo boss of each city zone has a 100% drop rate on a hundo. 2 for Arch Angra, all 3 for Arch D.Lord.
4. Revisit the stats on most of the oneiros and demonry equipment.
5. When you add the ability augment relic armor, make higher tier augmenting items which drop from the higher tier enemies.

All of this sounds awesome. Groups shouldn't be punished for fighting more challenging monsters, they should be rewarded.

[Alhanelem]

100% agree. There's no reason to go deep inside and fight the stronger enemies when they don't have a higher droprate on anything. The only conceivable reason is if you're going with more than a few people and you're too strong to proc the weaker monsters before they die, and even that is rarely an issue because you can just fight the monsters that proc with JAs or spells instead of the weaponskill ones.

Greater risk should always be greater reward. The proposed suggestion is more or less reasonable in scope and a good suggestion overall. Maybe fiddle with the exact numbers a bit, but that's not really important.

[Sparthos]

This is the issue I had with Dynamis the second SE announced they were redoing the zones.

What are the incentives for people who arent doing currency for a relic? The drops from the high tier mobs are largely throwaway junk and the HQ mobs are laughable. It's like the gear was purposely intended to be inferior to Abyssean loot.

Arch DL is implemented poorly (another zergfest SE? really?), the lootpools are shallow for battles that want more than 6 and there are no long term objectives. Relic+1/2 I guess huh.

[Rearden]

Agree, but I don't feel doubling single rates or tripling 100 rates really cuts it.

It takes more than twice as long to kill the EM-T mobs, and that won't change much at 95 because they are that much harder and that much dangerous if they are the wrong mob type.

The Neo-NMs take significantly longer to kill than fighting 5 regular NMs at a time, and a 3x increase of 1~5% drop rate on 100s isn't really that much of a boost and over the long run won't even be noticeable for some groups.

[Atomic_Skull]

Better idea: Make Relics actually worth the effort so people will actually want to do Dynamis.

[Gokku]

Better idea: Make Relics actually worth the effort so people will actually want to do Dynamis.

agreed i wanna charge more gil for currency

[Helel]

One problem I have with the dynamis system is that the pops are in horrible locations (usually). I'm fairly certain most of the NMs could be lowmanned, especially @95, except the pops that are right in the middle of a thousand mobs. It's not practical to force an alliance of people against bosses like arch DL when everybody wants to use their 2-hours/day to farm currency.

Make confrontation status allow you to evade aggro.

[Alhanelem]

Make confrontation status allow you to evade aggro. "Confrontation" status was supposed to be effectively a spontaneous BC.... It's pretty silly that crap can aggro you while you're doing it and other people can't help you because of the status. Please, implement his suggestion.

[Atomic_Skull]

"Confrontation" status was supposed to be effectively a spontaneous BC.... It's pretty silly that crap can aggro you while you're doing it and other people can't help you because of the status. Please, implement his suggestion.

Learn to pull the NM to a safe place to fight or bring enough people to handle adds. We don't need to dumb FFXI down any more than it has been already.

[Alhanelem]

Learn to pull the NM to a safe place to fight or bring enough people to handle adds. We don't need to dumb FFXI down any more than it has been already.
Considering how unrewarding it is, it probably should be dumbed down. =\

Of course, increasing the reward is great too. I think people can agree some kind of adjustment should be made somewhere though.

[Radec]

Make confrontation status allow you to evade aggro.

Small clarification, Confrontation does block aggro, but you only receive it on bosses and arch bosses, the Odious _____ ??? NMs are merely a time limit and not Confrontation.

[Alhanelem]

Small clarification, Confrontation does block aggro, but you only receive it on bosses and arch bosses, the Odious _____ ??? NMs are merely a time limit and not Confrontation.
oh... Thanks for clearing that up. :)

[Zumi]

kind of the same issue as voidwatch, lots of work for small rewards

Well if people want to upgrade their empyrean weapons past 90 they better get on it for voidwatch.

[MarkovChain]

Well if people want to upgrade their empyrean weapons past 90 they better get on it for voidwatch.

Because you totally have the proof of what you claim.

[Falseliberty]

as others have brought up this is a problem the work to reward ratio is pretty bad
and for some reason SE thinks gear with negative stats is cool , take a look Oneiros helm (which i got real lucky with)
was it necessary to put -3 triple attack -3 double attack on the piece? it takes 10 mins to get a aias bonnet which is almost on par with it. Here's a hint SE if u want people to move away from abyssea and on to new content u have to give them something to chase after.

Side grades are not gonna cut it to get the player base excited to move on

PS for the love of god please move some mobs around in Dyna-Jeuno that place is a huge clusterfuck

[Aver]

Because you totally have the proof of what you claim.

So where are our magic 90-95 empyrean upgrade items coming from, oh wise sage? Limbus?

[MarkovChain]

So where are our magic 90-95 empyrean upgrade items coming from, oh wise sage? Limbus?

Likely to be from abyssea. Unlikely to be VW, woe, dynamis, salvage. Anren't empy supposed to be abyssea's ultimate reward ... ?

[Aver]

Aye, but SE has already pretty much flat out said we're done with the abyssea-content stage of the game. They want us to gtfo and do other things.

It's only logical they'd add incentives to get us to do so.

[Helel]

Learn to pull the NM to a safe place to fight or bring enough people to handle adds. We don't need to dumb FFXI down any more than it has been already.

Learn to read, especially the OP. The whole premise of this thread is that it's not worth "bringing enough people to handle adds." Thus, either the NMs do indeed need to be dumbed down, or there needs to be a better incentive to kill them. Pulling the NM past masses of orcs is not practical if you only have three people.

Also, if the NMs do not give confrontation status, then they should. Simple fix.

[Urteil]

We completed Apocalypse in 2 months and 9 days, from zilch.

Sounds pretty high tier to me.

[Falseliberty]

I'm pretty sure emp weapon upgrades gonna come from VW i mean just look at it right this moment.
it uses curor as its main currency and also can drop seals in chest. 5 bucks when VW ends there's gonna be some kind of story crossover from abyssea/WOTG final BC nonsense /which sounds cool

[Alkimi]

I'm probably one of the few who enjoys new dynamis. It's challenging, which is a refreshing change, but an awful lot of the NMs are just stagger > kill as quickly as possible. Often it is the only logical strategy. Orcs will charmga, Goblins will bomb toss spam for 1k+ and benediction themselves with goblin dice etc. etc.

The Arch Dynamis Lord is just a luck-based zerg fest, even with an alliance of the best DDs you're probably 50/50 on successfully killing it.

I do agree that the rewards are a lacking somewhat. Most of the oneiros/mujin gear is trash although there are some good pieces.

[Kristal]

Likely to be from abyssea. Unlikely to be VW, woe, dynamis, salvage. Anren't empy supposed to be abyssea's ultimate reward ... ?

Voidwatch is the continuation of Abyssea, so yeah, it's very likely. Keep in mind that Abyssea was hit by a double disaster. Emptyness caused the decay of the dimensional integrity, which drew in the voidwalkers. Vana'diel also attracted attention due to Atomos' shenanigans and Abyssea 'falling' towards Vana'diel causing dimensional stress. But where Abyssea is a rotting carcass, Vana'diel is more like a wounded animal. It's capable of fighting back, so only the strongest of voidwalkers are crossing over, and even then they need to be lured fully into our realm by pretending the local area is 'defenseless' (using a piece of Abyssea: abyssite.) (Note, this is my interpretation, and could be wrong.)

I can't say if that means the current/new VWNMs will drop items to upgrade emp weapons and armor, or that we are going to raid a Walk of Echos-like zone for it, but Voidwatch will be involved somehow.

[Creelo]

I do hope SE looks into revamping the drop rates in Dynamis, because as it is right now, it just isn't worth it. Currency seems pretty fine atm coming from regular mobs, although I do think the high lvl mobs should provide better currency drop rates, since this could possibly open up more camps and lessen the congestion in some parts of Dynamis atm (Xarc...). If they just made a decent impact on the rate of 100s coming from pop NMs, waaaay more people want to do them. And if the Arch bosses had 100% drop rates on at least one 100 Currency, then I'm 100% sure they would see more people doing them.

This goes a lot for Voidwatch as well. I don't want to derail the thread from Dyna, but the fact that full procs in VW generally means you're still gonna get crap (or just more crap than usual) doesn't make any sense. Combined with the absolutely terrible loot system (can't add loot to Alliance spoils...), people just won't do the event. This is why a large majority of people still only really do Abyssea, because you feel like you're always making progress and being rewarded for your endeavors. This isn't so much the case with Voidwatch and fighting the NMs of Neo Dynamis (being rewarded with crappy items, or many times, nothing).

SE, you do want people to want to play this game, right?

[Sargent]

I'm having a real issue with the new Dynamis stuff, not because the content is too difficult, but because no one is interested since the rewards aren't on par with Abyssea. I know a few people who'd love the Oneiros heads, and bits and pieces of the gear from the lower tier NMs, but the majority of people I know still see it as "old content" even though it's new.
On a related note: Bastok NMs are a pain simply because of the 50 adds that surround 3 of the 4 pops. If you want people to do this content, you need to either give the confrontation ststus as suggested or clear the area around the NM, because as most people would agree, city zones are a mess at the moment.

[scaevola]

Arch DL is implemented poorly (another zergfest SE? really?), the lootpools are shallow for battles that want more than 6 and there are no long term objectives. Relic+1/2 I guess huh.


This actually touches on a much greater balance problem: the degree to which Empyrean weapons have become common potentially trivializes all content, but SE can't balance new content around entire groups of Empyrean-users because it would be impossible for groups without them. SWG Jedis all the way down, and all that.

[Yinnyth]

We completed Apocalypse in 2 months and 9 days, from zilch.

Sounds pretty high tier to me.

Thank you for reading the title of the thread. Now please read the OP.

The idea is that the best rewards from Dynamis (relics) are easiest to obtain by killing the lowest tier enemies in the zone because their currency drop rate is the same as the hardest enemies. So please elaborate; how much of your relic currency came from higher tier enemies and neo NMs? Because if ALL of your currency came from high tier enemies, then that would be a relevant point to be making in this thread.

Though someone would just immediately shoot you down afterwards by saying you would've finished faster if you split up and farmed lower tier enemies.

[Leonlionheart]

What I don't understand is why they gave us Abyssea, made it easy, and made the rewards unbelievably better than anything we've ever seen before, then throw this neo dynamis and voidwatch stuff at us, make it much more difficult, and make the rewards slightly better for a very small number of jobs.

Not only that, but the drop rates suck.

It's almost impossible to find people who are very interested that aren't already in a LS doing it on Asura.

[Modoru]

On another note, why would you want an Oneiros Cluster?

I mean, as far as some of those jobs go. I can understand BST, but I can't fathom RNG, DNC or THF.

I mean, a +2 THF caps out almost entirely on gear alone, and a twilight belt can pretty much get it there w/ a tiercel... why sacrifice ranged/ammo for 1% haste, in the end? ;_;

Enlighten me, because I'm only a thief and don't know much about DNC or RNG. :C


...or BST.

[Yinnyth]

For the most part, the cluster is trash. I've had 3 of those stupid things go auto-sort in my LS and just get tossed. Sacrificing the ability to use a ranged attack on thf and rng is usually unacceptable. I think dnc gets a better option from abyssea, and as for bst... well I haven't tested, but I would think that you can't have it equipped at the same time as a jug. Not to mention the -7 attack is just a kick in the pants for something as tiny as 1% (it's probably actually 10/1024) haste.

But that was my point there. It's trash, but if you want it, you need to have more friends (and better-quality friends) than if you want a relic weapon.

[Modoru]

Raider's boomerang outdoes it by far, I'm sure. :C

[Alhanelem]

It's almost impossible to find people who are very interested that aren't already in a LS doing it on Asura. On rare occasion, I see people shouting for voidwatch. But it's usually not the tier you need to make progress. =\

[Suirieko]

The idea is that the best rewards from Dynamis (relics) are easiest to obtain by killing the lowest tier enemies in the zone because their currency drop rate is the same as the hardest enemies. So please elaborate; how much of your relic currency came from higher tier enemies and neo NMs? Because if ALL of your currency came from high tier enemies, then that would be a relevant point to be making in this thread.

My group ran into Urteil's group quite a few times in Beaucedine and we've witnessed them only killing lower tier mobs, especially Yagudo as of late. Congrats on your Apocalypse by the way, Urteil.

I agree entirely with this thread. The problem with the high tier is that there's no justification to do it other than only getting the pop items for the Neo-Dynamis NMs, as well as no extra benefits for killing the new NMs except for the new items that seem to have a rare drop rate.

I was pretty surprised when I was part of a run that focused mainly on higher leveled mobs, and the new NMs, and the currency reward is pretty much the same as the lower level mobs. You might as well just split up and kill the lower level mobs as you stagger. There definitely needs to be more incentive for higher difficulty, other than for the sake of drops from the new NMs when most of them aren't even worth doing.

On the other hand... with the rise of the level cap to 95, and later on 99, those mobs should be easier to do anyway, so this will probably be a moot point by the time 99 comes.

As I recall, before the Dynamis overhaul, the Hydras in Beaucedine had a pretty decent chance of dropping up to 6 different currencies, which was a small, but nice incentive to do something challenging in Dynamis when you have a large group.

[Yinnyth]

Back in the day, Hydra Corps did have a higher currency drop rate, but their increased difficulty in comparison to normal mobs was more than enough to offset the droprate bonus. They couldn't be slept, they hit (slightly) harder, 2h wielders had grim halo which was just nasty, the pulls were nightmarish to make without linking (not that I didn't find my ways eventually), and the mobs that popped them (eyes) never restored HP or MP, so resting was needed more frequently. The real bonus I found from targetting the hydra corps in Beaucedine wasn't their increased drop rate of currency, it was that they had 2 time extensions hiding up there, and eventually I got my linkshell to be good enough at hitting them that we we spent less than 30 minutes in hydra corps getting the 30 minutes of extensions they had. Well that, and I just enjoyed pushing my strategies and pull techniques to the limits.

But I digress. There should be some greater reason to target higher tier enemies. I get the feeling that they hid timestones in the high-tier areas to add to that incentive, but it has just led to precision strikes at those stones by jobs capable of soloing them. It needs something more tangible and amazing. I'm tired of feeling like I wasted the entire run farming the harder enemies when all we get to show for it is another freaking oneiros coif. I should be making my LS a fortune by just splitting up and farming currency, but that's BORING AS <explitive>. The NM fights are challenging. Especially considering the numbers my LS has ever since (thanks to) the Dynamis changes. I enjoy a challenge, but if I'm going to do it over and over, I'd like a better reward than the one SE is currently offering.

[Sparthos]

This actually touches on a much greater balance problem: the degree to which Empyrean weapons have become common potentially trivializes all content, but SE can't balance new content around entire groups of Empyrean-users because it would be impossible for groups without them. SWG Jedis all the way down, and all that.

Arch DL could have been designed for individuals with or without Empyrean weapons in a much better fashion.

As it stands, the battle is a zerg where you absolutely need Perfect Defense because when you have 2-5 DLs spawned spamming TP there is nothing you can do but throw damage into it before the effect wears off and you're swarmed. It also doesn't help that the clones can disengage you, wasting precious time or causing you to target the 'wrong' ADL leading to instant failure.

So to sum the battle up, you have to bring a large group for a shallow (4 drops) lootpool, an element of luck is at play (clones, retargeting), the only strategy is to zerg (Fiat Lux was far better designed) and you need 5 NMs with dubious lootpools in order to even engage this mob.

Backwards progression SE, backwards progression. Overall, the Arch mobs are copy/paste and are pathetic reward and design wise.

[Xellith]

The end bosses of dynamis now are just laughable for the rewards you get. My dynamis segment of my ls is pretty much going to stop doing the event as a linkshell event completely. Even the harder stuff isn't worth our time for the most part. We are only doing it atm just to let a few people experience it before we put an end to it.

[Soranika]

Poor rewards... I guess I'm the only one that felt re-invigorated to do dynamis again for an Oneiros grip and mujin obi for my SMN, as well still collecting relic armor and accessories that are actually still useful.

[Leonlionheart]

Poor rewards... I guess I'm the only one that felt re-invigorated to do dynamis again for an Oneiros grip and mujin obi for my SMN, as well still collecting relic armor and accessories that are actually still useful.

Considering SMN is about the only job that gets anything from it, yeah you're probably the only one.

[Atomic_Skull]

Arch DL could have been designed for individuals with or without Empyrean weapons in a much better fashion.

As it stands, the battle is a zerg where you absolutely need Perfect Defense because when you have 2-5 DLs spawned spamming TP there is nothing you can do but throw damage into it before the effect wears off and you're swarmed. It also doesn't help that the clones can disengage you, wasting precious time or causing you to target the 'wrong' ADL leading to instant failure.

So to sum the battle up, you have to bring a large group for a shallow (4 drops) lootpool, an element of luck is at play (clones, retargeting), the only strategy is to zerg (Fiat Lux was far better designed) and you need 5 NMs with dubious lootpools in order to even engage this mob.

Backwards progression SE, backwards progression. Overall, the Arch mobs are copy/paste and are pathetic reward and design wise.

Yeah but you see they're actually there for the lvl 99 relic upgrade trials not for their loot pools.

[Kogenta]

Please change monster distribution on Dynamis-Jeuno. As it is now, it's UNPLAYABLE.
Gratefully, the playerbase.

[Unleashhell]

Please change monster distribution on Dynamis-Jeuno. As it is now, it's UNPLAYABLE.
Gratefully, the playerbase.

How? There are several good camps there. imo Windy should get the change not Jeuno.

[Sparthos]

Yeah but you see they're actually there for the lvl 99 relic upgrade trials not for their loot pools.

Seems all Dynamis exists for now is to churn out relics so who knows.

[Soranika]

Considering SMN is about the only job that gets anything from it, yeah you're probably the only one.

I was afraid of that. =\

[Kogenta]

How? There are several good camps there. imo Windy should get the change not Jeuno.

It's painful to farm TE in Jeuno and actually do a full LS run. Last TE, the one on the upper floor, pretty much always results in a massive link with goblins downstairs. Windurst is a little more friendly imho, but still not a top choice for farming.

[Falseliberty]

jeuno is not horrible... its fawking omg horrible, please fix monster placement there k thx SE >.>

[Soranika]

I've done dynamis in jeuno a few times but I don't remember much of what it was like before the changes since I was gone for a year. I just always assumed it was always overcrowd cause of the way we pulled and haven't had issues then or now other than the quick respawn times.

[Falseliberty]

well in comparison bastok sandy bea and xarc all have sum decent open camps where u dont feel like your inside a sardine can. windy TEs easy but no easy camps for new NMs. jeuno by FAR the worst and for no real reason i can think of

[Yinnyth]

It's true Jeuno's spawns are absolutely terrible, and for more reasons than one. Shall I list them?!

1. There are only 4 safe camps: entrance, upper jeuno zoneline, and the front and back ends of the palace.
2. When camping at the front of the palace, if you cast sleepga on a mob at the wrong time, your sleepga will hit the mobs on the upper level of the palace, and wind up linking everything inside.
3. NM's "wander range" is so large that if a person winds up kiting one past you then using hide (or simply dying), there's a good chance the NM won't despawn but will instead turn around and wander back through your group (and aggro).

To say nothing of the annoyance of the NMs themselves and attempting to clear a path to the pop area for each neo NM.

[Unleashhell]

It's painful to farm TE in Jeuno and actually do a full LS run. Last TE, the one on the upper floor, pretty much always results in a massive link with goblins downstairs. Windurst is a little more friendly imho, but still not a top choice for farming.


Well how my LS does it, a BLU solos the TE by the fountain. A Sleeper and a DD go over and kill the TE by the AH. Then another BLU gets the TE inside the palace. Usually what I do is have someone with twilight set like myself or someone else just agro all the mobs for the TE up top on the west wall and die over by the mega boss pop spot. Very easy sack pull to kill the TE. The TE in front of the palace is the last we get because most of the time we camp half the group in front of the palace and the other half at the mega boss pop spot. Not sure if it would help you at all but just throwing that out there in case it does.

[Unleashhell]

Jeuno is a great place for 100's Camp in front of the palace just in front of the steps and pull the mobs and wait for the NMs to pop. You have access for 4-5 NMs all the time in that camp. Don't forget once you clear the front of the palace you got an NM that spawns down by the fountain. Its really your highest concentrated population of NMs.

[Yinnyth]

That is certainly true about Jeuno, the NM concentration is enormous there. The other 3 cities only have a handful of NMs, Beauc has a crapton of NMs, but they're all lotto pops. In Jeuno, it seems like the NMs are lotto pops of one another, so kill an NM, get another NM when he repops (though it might be a different NM, just in the same place). So if you're ok with random hundos and can hit those timestones, Jeuno's a good place to farm currency.

It's also the worst of the cities for neo NMs though.

[Suirieko]

I would say that Windurst is the worst for the cities, due to the incredibly dumb placement of the TEs. Two of them are extremely deep into the VT mobs area.

[Kogenta]

It's absurd you have to send a twilight set DD to farm TE just for the autoreraise. It's a turnaround, and i'd imagine at some point this DD will die under a mob and need a sackpull to get up and out of that hell made of NM and little fucking NIN and RNG goblins. We had a THF sackpulling all the TEs from the beginning just to keep the ally safe since most of them were /dnc and jig wears off pretty fast. This plus the incredible amount of mobs and lack of safe spots to re-jig, can be stressfull.

We did Jeuno exactly for the incredible amount of NMs, but even if we managed to trigger !! for the 90% of them, still we got ZERO hundreds. 5/5 Time extensions. Even in other areas the droprate of 100 on triggered NMs is quite low. Is it normal or am i doing it wrong? <___<

[Rearden]

stagger doesn't effect 100s so that's sort of not important

[Kogenta]

stagger doesn't effect 100s so that's sort of not important

As i suspected -_- Well this is amusingly illogic. Thanks for the answer.

[MarkovChain]

I would say that Windurst is the worst for the cities, due to the incredibly dumb placement of the TEs. Two of them are extremely deep into the VT mobs area.

But plenty of safe camps. I used the camp in front of the monk NM or the one at the bridge south of the RDM NM (only one salvager there). Bastok is the worst zone since everything links but in my camp (behinf the AH near the TE) I still do 300 coins due to ~10 pullable JA mobs.

[Falseliberty]

when i was talking about jeuno i was speaking of new NM's guess people callem neo mobs or w/e. very very hard to fight those with surrounding aggro VS the other zones. i simple fix here and there would make that place alot more friendly.


i guess it dont matter at all cuz the lvl cap goes up in a day or 2 and gear becomes irrelevant again? oh oh unless SE adds new NM again to old zones OMGZ o.O

[Mahoro]

Not really sure where all the hate for the Neo/Arch bosses is coming from. There are quite a few people in my LS who want Avesta Bangles, Oneiros Headgear, Oneiros Grip, Sagasinger, etc. A couple more people want Oneiros Helm/Knife for THF. Sure, your time to loot ratio isn't as large as Abyssea. However, even the items from the T1 Oneiros NM's still fetch a nice price on the AH due to rarity, so any LS that farms Arch bosses will get a decent payout for their run. All the non-rare/ex Oneiros stuff that people don't DKP in my LS goes straight to the bank. We've made millions farming Neo-Dynamis.

[Yinnyth]

Well, the CoP changes have been out for a while now, and I feel comfortable in saying that the problem has not been properly addressed in these zones either. Again, there are some neat pieces of equipment on the high tier mobs, but the vast majority of the loot pool is merely a sidegrade or worse. Plus, the loot density is just the same as in the cities: 0-1 pieces of equipment per neo NM, 0-3 pieces of equipment per neo boss. It is simply too difficult to keep enough people in my LS interested in attempting to target the high tier mobs. Insult to injury, CoP zones are even better at getting currency than city zones if you enter with the intention of farming low tier mobs, but if you enter with the intention of killing neo NMs, it's harder to keep track of mob weakness and time everything out to play to your group's strengths.

The changes made to Dynamis were made with the little guy in mind, so if you're the little guy, you probably love everything about the Dynamis changes. Relic weapons (the best thing you can get from Dynamis) can be solo'd/duo'd, you can make a reasonable amount of gil by selling currency, any person can get any piece of relic armor they want now. The high tier stuff in Dynamis, however... the stuff that got tacked on at the last minute to maybe entertain the endgame linkshells is so poorly implemented that it dooms itself to failure. The low tier fights have a much better difficulty to reward ratio than the high tier fights. If this was the devs' intention, well then congratulations, it worked. But you should know that it frustrates me to no end that a solo bst, who dies 3 times due to his own incompetence, still comes out of Dynamis with more swag than my entire linkshell when we knock out a flawless run of killing each neo NM and neo boss twice.

[Kitkat]

My ls does dynamis almost daily since we are thekind of ls that builds relics (even though emps still spank them all over in most cases). The most recent change to dreamlands seems to make ws procs absolutely horrible, we still have far greater luck on older zones doing AOE ws than with dreamlands, and even if not doing aoe most times you'll kill the mob long before you trigger it even after 4-7 WS uses. That is ridiculous considering the ease in which JA triggers. I can understand nerfing AOE, but it seems like they even lowered single target ws which is annoying when just gathering tp to use a ws kills the mob outlandishly fast unless fighting crabs with scissor guard.

I'd also like to know what is up with currency drops too. Older zones you will more than likely get 2-3 (occasionally 4) per mob regardless of difficulty, but in dreamlands I've seen th8 proc and we'll get 1-2 coin, -1, and accessory or just 1-2 coin on occasion with nothing else.

Changes I'd love to see: With most melee having about 500-700 att just in tp gear I would love to see the proc rate of WS at least 20% higher than it is now. Should be a 1/4 chance to trigger with ws on a single target. Would also be nice to see the currency drops slightly adjusted (+1 currency min. on proc for low tier and possibly +2 on higher tier). I don't think higher tier needs to drop more than 5 per kill since a good trio can kill these just as fast as the lessers with a skill chain and in some cases just pure raw dmg from melee.

[Yinnyth]

Changes I'd love to see: With most melee having about 500-700 att just in tp gear I would love to see the proc rate of WS at least 20% higher than it is now. Should be a 1/4 chance to trigger with ws on a single target. Would also be nice to see the currency drops slightly adjusted (+1 currency min. on proc for low tier and possibly +2 on higher tier). I don't think higher tier needs to drop more than 5 per kill since a good trio can kill these just as fast as the lessers with a skill chain and in some cases just pure raw dmg from melee.

1. WS proc rate is about 15% currently. A 20% boost would be 35% which is far too high, especially if it still works on AoE weaponskills.

2. No, they have more HP, more defense, more evasion, their 2hrs are more devastating (particularly monks). Therefore killing them "just as fast as lessers" is impossible. If the players are good enough to trio higher tier mobs quickly, they could just as easily split up and hit 2 lesser mobs at the same time.


Look, I don't blame you for not understanding. Your LS is all about obtaining currency and is completely unconcerned with the harder targets in Dynamis, and that's ok. I don't want higher tier mobs to become the new farming target- I don't want them to become a better source of currency per hour, I want them to be a better source of currency per kill. So I'm not trying to muck up how you do stuff, I just want more incentive for targetting neo NMs. Currently, choosing to target neo NMs results in a DRASTIC decrease of currency obtained per run.

If you take into consideration how difficult it is to coordinate a group to kill the neo bosses and the underwhelming loot pool, the decreased currency output seems unfair. My friend and I can fairly easily duo 200 coins per run (not counting hundos), which is 100 coins per person. However, when my LS gets together for a run (6-8 people) and we target neo NMs, we generally wind up with fewer than 80 coins (not counting hundos), which is ~10 coins per person. If you triple the coin output of higher tier mobs, it would still be more productive to mass-farm low tier mobs. (yes, I realize more goes into it than just the drop rate of the high tier mobs themselves since we lose a lot of time actually hitting the NMs, so the NMs themselves need their currency rate significantly boosted more than the higher tier mobs).

[Yinnyth]

I have to be perfectly honest... and I've been holding this back for a while... but something has cut me DEEP recently. This thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15456-dev1000-Dynamis-A-short-sighted-issue.) received a dev response recently. At the time, it had 18 likes on the original topic and less than half as many views as this thread. I mean no offense to Aemora, nor his suggestion- considering the way things are going with Dynamis, he is absolutely right that the AF2 upgrade time should be decreased.

But there is so much for me to take offense to... the dev response has more than doubled the thread's views (increasing his complaint to a wider audience base), and since then he has gained more than 9 "likes" for his cause. No one has bothered to tag that thread with the proper [dev1000] and [dev1023], which has been stated (I think by Camate... maybe?) increases the likelihood that your concerns will be dealt with through the proper channels.

Granted, I started Dynamis about a year after it was released, but I've been leading Dynamis for over 5 years. I command a linkshell that was once so large, people couldn't get into the Xarcabard runs (or on the LS, it was full... so show up early). I opposed the changes that were made to Dynamis, and so did much of my LS, and as such, we're down to about a dozen players (generous estimate). I can tell you how to lowman the Hydra Corps timestones in olde-timey Beaucedine, I can tell you how each "suit" of Diabolos worked before the updates, I have almost never missed a run in all these years. I probably know more about old Dynamis than anyone on the dev team currently working, yet my concerns are cast aside while Dynamis neophites who suddenly find themselves capable of obtaining gear they've slightly wanted for who-knows-how-long are granted audience with the Gods of the game? Ouch.

To be fair, I pay as much money as any other player of the game, so perhaps I am making a mountain of a molehill. I still feel burned though.