Magic Evasion Bonus Job Trait

[Capn]

The one thing that's bothered me for quite some time the fact that put a thf up against any magic type mob, and the fight lasts less than 20 seconds... (ok I'm exhaggerating a tiny bit...) But honestly, we're supposed to be the king of evasion right?

Why not a job trait (or a few that stack up) Magic Evasion Bonus - gives a chance to reduce magic damage taken by 100% 50% or 25% with a modest proc rate (small chance to happen, but still a chance!)

[latka]

i think that would be awesome we should have magic evasion that gives us a good chance at evading magic damage.

[Superchicken]

you do its called Shadow ring

[Arcon]

Not everyone has a Shadow Ring and it's not quite the same. Although I don't really think it's a THF's quality to "evade" magical attacks. If anything, I'd say THF is one of the least plausible jobs to evade/resist a magical attack, since they're only adept at physical dexterity/agility (not referring to the ingame stats). In my opinion it's simply one thing thieves suck at, as unfortunate as that is.

[Leebo]

you do its called Shadow ring

Exactly what I thought lol.

Just bring a whm to the magic spammies D:

[Pesh]

Just build an MDT set and Atma for particular fights. There are plenty of times where the mob will do a GAIV and I'll swap to MDT to be hit for 0-100 damage while others are taking 300 and up.

Twilight Torque & Augmented MDT Dark rings alone can get you a good boost toward where you need to be.

Stack elemental resistances in slots where you can't get MDT and HP in the other slots. With Thieves tanking now more than ever, you'd do well to have a decent set of gear to shave off that damage.

And don't neglect those elemental resistance atmas. If I'm doing a big NM with a particular element, I'll use resistance Atma/RR/Apoc. The amount of damage reduced far outweighs the bonus of VV for whatever fight in question.

[Bjoern]

Just build an MDT set and Atma for particular fights. There are plenty of times where the mob will do a GAIV and I'll swap to MDT to be hit for 0-100 damage while others are taking 300 and up.

Twilight Torque & Augmented MDT Dark rings alone can get you a good boost toward where you need to be.

Stack elemental resistances in slots where you can't get MDT and HP in the other slots. With Thieves tanking now more than ever, you'd do well to have a decent set of gear to shave off that damage.

And don't neglect those elemental resistance atmas. If I'm doing a big NM with a particular element, I'll use resistance Atma/RR/Apoc. The amount of damage reduced far outweighs the bonus of VV for whatever fight in question.

I really have to agree here. I'm not really geared at the moment for -mdt but it's a sound strategy.
I mean alot of non~evasion tanking is very dependant on making your gear cover your weakness depending on your enemy's strength.

[thefinalrune]

Aside from the occasional fastcaster, I've always survived against mage mobs with the use of sleep bolts. Nearly all tier 3 or higher spells take much longer to cast than the time it takes to fire off a sleep bolt. Mind you, I'm not trying to sleep tough+ mobs either, but I don't really think a THF should be dealing with a T+ solo most the time anyway, especially a mage.

[Pesh]

Aside from the occasional fastcaster, I've always survived against mage mobs with the use of sleep bolts.

On a regular mob, you should attack fast enough and crit often enough to stop the cast. Problem is I'm talking about NMs which won't sleep. That's when you need an MDT set.

[Strife]

GIMMIE!


...If anything, I'd say THF is one of the least plausible jobs to evade/resist a magical attack...

THF are experts at 'avoidance' why is it not plausible for them to avoid magic damage as well as physical? Magic evasion is already a trait within the game & out of all the melee imo it'd be most appropriate to give it to THF.

Gear will always be of the utmost importance for any situation and yes there is a lot more MDT & MDB gear more readily available these days but I want a trait to! Greedy? What of it?!

Correct me if I'm wrong & I very well could be but I think THF is the melee with the least HP & magic attacks usually being one of the heaviest AoE damage types if SE wants THF up on the front line stabbing NMs with their daggers to proc TH (which without giving us subtle blow I think is unlikely to happen in a lot of situations) they'll have to give us something, even if they make an ability to increase magic evasion that'd be handy.

[CebPtolemy]

Aladdin dodged the guards attacks but pretty much got fucked by Jafar when he started using magic on him. Clearly this shows thfs avoidance doesn't stretch to magic.

On a more serious note it really doesn't make much sense for thf to get magic evasion if you think about it. Although it'd be handy it just doesn't fit in with our job description or as far as i'm aware the job description of thfs throughout ff games.
If your determined then get a MDT- set to further fill up your bagspace and swap in for nasty -Ga's but out from that just bring a whm and suck it up. :s

[Arcon]

Aladdin dodged the guards attacks but pretty much got fucked by Jafar when he started using magic on him. Clearly this shows thfs avoidance doesn't stretch to magic.

Awesome. But yeah, THFs weren't build to last, if any melee deserves a MDB trait it should be MNK. THFs can already tank way better than they were intended for, right up there with MNK and NIN, I have a sneaking suspicion SE may change that somehow.

[Pesh]

if SE wants THF up on the front line stabbing NMs with their daggers to proc TH (which without giving us subtle blow I think is unlikely to happen in a lot of situations) they'll have to give us something.

I hate to burst your bubble, but plenty of THF are on the front line tanking NMs already. My LS has me on the mob full time and our other DDs will gain TP on exp mobs then run in for WS before backing out. When a spell hits me, I'm usually one taking the LEAST amount of damage.

THF isn't like any of the other DDs. You have to use your head and adapt to every situation (mostly through your gear swaps). That's what makes the job enjoyable rather than some static DD that just smashes a WS macro.


THFs can already tank way better than they were intended for, right up there with MNK and NIN, I have a sneaking suspicion SE may change that somehow.

I doubt it. A smart THF will always find a way to ride the hate line. A smart THF is always waiting for the Collaborator timer to come up and they'll cycle the people they're hitting with it (you'd be surprised how much hate you can keep just by using Collaborator on your WHM). So you're managing people's hate by keeping their enmity down while increasing yours and if you lose hate to a DD, you just slap a nice SA-WS off and boom, more hate.

With more and more low man situations, I think SE is giving us a lot more options when it comes to jobs. I highly doubt they'll take that away.

[Strife]

I hate to burst your bubble, but plenty of THF are on the front line tanking NMs already.

Oh I know this & I'm very pleased to see it but I was talking more about NMs with especially nasty TP moves -which alot of the higher tier ones have- usually I see groups fighting these with DNC, NIN or MNK tanks & not wanting anyone else on the mob. This is especually the case if your low manning something without a lot of support. Generally as a job though -now more so than ever before- THF feeds mobs a lot of TP I'd like to see something to mitigate this without the need to be /NIN all the time.


With more and more low man situations, I think SE is giving us a lot more options when it comes to jobs. I highly doubt they'll take that away.

I sincerely hope your right but historically this has not been the case. :(

[Capn]

I see all of your points about utilizing existing gear to build up defense against magic attacks, but I"m mainly referring to eating a -ga IV V while not so prepared, then having to be cure bombed the 1.2k+ damage you've just taken.

For those saying a thf's ability to "evade" magic isn't really in line with thf's "evasion"... please keep in mind, that stealing haste makes no sense at all either...

I'm not talking about anything wacky or game breaking. Just the ability that occ reduces magic damage from 1.2k to 900-1k, with a low change to block 50% or lower.

[CebPtolemy]

I'm not talking about anything wacky or game breaking. Just the ability that occ reduces magic damage from 1.2k to 900-1k, with a low change to block 50% or lower.

What you're suggesting is either pointless or game breaking depending on the proc rate.

But i still don't see your rational behind wanting this other than to make healers jobs easier. If you want it for tanking/soloing heavy -ga wielding mobs without a -mdt set the proc rate would have to be huge. Or if you do indeed just want it to make the whms job easier in a non tanking capacity i'd suggest the answer to your problem would be to just find a better whm.

End of the day we're a dps class who can currently effectively tank the majority of Aby better than, or on par with Nin's. Our survivability isn't really something that needs to be buffed.

[Capn]

I see it being more useful than mug (currently) and despoil. Just because it's not as useful as adding an attack boost or damage bonus doesn't mean it wouldn't be a nice addition to our arsenal.

Besides, losing less HP from a -ga makes bolting HP back much easier, and those solo fights slightly less stressful.

[Pesh]

Oh I know this & I'm very pleased to see it but I was talking more about NMs with especially nasty TP moves -which alot of the higher tier ones have(

Thieves can tank these too. Nothing in Abyssea is too terribly frightening if you're properly geared/Atma'd for it. Many of the NMs use spells and TP moves of one elemental alignment. Meaning between the +100 resistance Atma, bar spell, and maybe a Carol or two, you are well prepared for anything that comes your way.

[Rambus]

hmmm I doono i think magic evade is more for casters or PLD

[Eeek]

I see it being more useful than mug (currently) and despoil. Just because it's not as useful as adding an attack boost or damage bonus doesn't mean it wouldn't be a nice addition to our arsenal.

Besides, losing less HP from a -ga makes bolting HP back much easier, and those solo fights slightly less stressful.

If you want to lose less HP from an -aga spell, use -MDT gear. It's simple really, and it's wildly effective. After Scars came out, I finally forced myself to stop half-assing my MDT set. These days, I don't die nearly as often as I used to since I take substantially less magic damage.

Aim for roughly ~25% MDT in gear. Shell 4/5 will get you close to or over the -50% cap on MDT (I forget the exact -MDT% numbers on Shell4). Here's what I use:

Avalon Breastplate (-5% MDT)
Twilight Torque (-5% Damage Taken)
Merman's Earring (two of them at -4% MDT total)
Dark Ring (two of them at -12% MDT total [among other defensive stats])

-26% MDT overall.

Some of that gear is expensive or r/ex, so other good options include the Level 66/67 Coral Harness set and Merman's Rings. It'll take up more inventory space, but it works just the same.

[Capn]

Here's what I use:

Avalon Breastplate (-5% MDT)
Twilight Torque (-5% Damage Taken)
Merman's Earring (two of them at -4% MDT total)
Dark Ring (two of them at -12% MDT total [among other defensive stats])

-26% MDT overall.

Some of that gear is expensive or r/ex, so other good options include the Level 66/67 Coral Harness set and Merman's Rings. It'll take up more inventory space, but it works just the same.

Not bad at all. While I still like the idea of another evasion trait for thf, this is really nice to see (with numbers). I think I can actually invest in some of this stuff to macro in when I see a "xxx is casting killyou-ga V"

[LordTrey]

You can lug around even more gear a stack up some MDB and INT in slots w/o -MDT. Plus a few choice sachets (ice, thunder, and fire are nice) + atma/buffs can really put us in a great place tanking wise when it comes to magic damage.

Personally, if you are in AOE you should carry aound some defenses. Not everyone will have everything, but something is better than naught.