What's your experience with Ninja Nuking?

[Zhronne]

I'd like to hear opinions and impressions from people who messed around a bit with Ninja Nuking, given the new possibilities offered to us by Abyssea.
I did for a while, and these are my impressions:


Atmas
Atma of the Minikin Monstrosity
Atma of the Ultimate
Atma of Beyond

This is the combinations I used. Atma of the Hell's Guardian would probably work better in place of MM.

Gear
Not the best around, but decent enough.
Main Hand: Int/MAB Sekka+2
Off Hand: Yagentoshiro
Ammo: Snow Sachet
Head: Koga Hatsuburi
Neck: Ninjutsu Torque
Ear1: Hecate's Earring
Ear2: Moldavite's Earring
Body: Kirin's Osode
Hands: Iga Tekko +2
Ring1: Spiral Ring
Ring2: Omega Ring
Back: augmented random mantle with int+5
Belt: Koga Sarashi

One comment on Yagentoshiro offhand instead that a second Sekka+2. My opinion is that there's a sort of "threshold". When you're below this threshold adding more int/mab provides more damage. When you're above this threshold, the 10% damage increse should provide more damage than Sekka+2.


Merits
Hyoton Effect - 5/5
Hyoton: San - 5/5
Ninjutsu - 8/8


Final Comments
Overall Ninja Nuking in abyssea is much more effective than most people think it is. I don't think the majority of people realize how efficient can be with such powerful nukes going off every 1,5 seconds.
It is especially effective on small NMs or normal mobs. For example all of those XP pts struggling to find one or two BLMs or SCHs to get Azure lights, could just deploy a NIN do the job, supposing he has the right gear/atmas.
When talking about high tier NMs and various stuff there are several NMs that tend to resist ninjutsu damage, and some other mob types (avatars for example) where Ninjutsu damage just does shit no matter the elements you use.
Still, it's very hard to pull out the full potential of this build for two main reasons imho:
Innin would provide a big boost to ninjutsu damage, but in Abyssea it's almost impossible to make use of it. Hate gets capped too easily and the mobs either get kited or just constantly move around cycling through targets. Also, there's the decay over time thing, altough this probably isn't much of an issue anymore since when they reduced the Innin timer recently.
Some mobs just seem to be particularly resistant against Ninjutsu... it's not just a matter of how "high tier" they are, even some low tier mobs seem to be resistant to Ninjutsu damage. I don't really know why and I lack the necessary magic mechanics knowledge to understand it. Doubt it's a matter of magic accuracy. Overall these mobs remain a large minority of the overall possible abyssea targets



tl;dr
When someone says something about "Ninja" and "elemental nuking" in the same line it's hard not to laugh in reply.
But the truth is that, while not gamebreaking, Ninja Nuking is definitely way more effective than most people think it is. (and it would be even more if only we could use Innin 100% of the times!)

[esoR]

this is the set i use.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/185408

pretty close to yours. i've seen some 1200 hyoton ni's and 2k on san w/ futae. i personally really want a new nuking body for nin thats better than osode.. there arent many nin nukers out there, but those that are, are very powerful. (got lucky once, and :san beat a bliz 4 from my ls blm)

[Zhronne]

I got close to 3k with Hyoton: San on Ulhuadshi (or was it Sobek?) once, but it was probably luck or maybe I had some mab buffs that I don't remember right now. My averages are around what you said, by eyeballing.

So you've experienced those odd "resists" on mobs like I said? They represent a minority of possible foes, but still more than I'd like to, and like I said I doubt it's something related to accuracy, it must be something else, just like a natural resistance to ninjutsu or something.



Edit:
No I think it was definitely Ulhuadshi. Sobek is the one where I got those surprising 6,5k Blizzard V with PUP.

[Shiyo]

I azure just fine in full DD atmas and full dd gear, just get the mob low then finish it.

Ninja nukes aren't that powerful and are pretty lacking, but shouldn't be one of our main concerns imo.

[Zhronne]

but shouldn't be one of our main concerns imo.
Never said they should :)
Just wanted to read opinions from other people who messed around a bit with nuking. I found out for myself that with the right setup nukes are way more powerful than I'd expect, probably better than an average BLM/SCH (altough the very definition itself of "average" can vary a lot from player to player, I suppose :P ).
Spikes are obviously lower, but you nuke much faster and without having to worry for MP (well... not like MP is a huge concern for mages as well inside of Abyssea, tbh)

[ThaiChi]

I had to do this for Culeubre, made the fight a lot easier.

Try Yasha Jinpachi over relic head. A lot of times I've seen that put out better damage. It's pretty tough finding high value INT gear for NIN, but I didn't have as much so depending on how much you have, relic head might actually be better. Before they released Empyrean hands I was using Galka RSE for INT, lol.

Oftentimes carrying around a nuking set becomes an issue of inventory, especially when I essentially have a full sets for Evasion, WS, TP, Enmity, Spell Interrupt, Fast Cast, and Blade: Hi. Admittedly, I am guilty of not always carrying my pdt/mdt gear around because of that.

[wish12oz]

Just wanted to read opinions from other people who messed around a bit with nuking.

If you want to nuke, level BLM, SCH or RDM. They all do it better.

[Zhronne]

If you want to nuke, level BLM, SCH or RDM. They all do it better.
I'm a level 90 SCH as well ^^''

[esoR]

my damage on Ni wheels fall about the same range as t3 nukes cast very fast and back to back. i'm not quite sure what resists you are refering too, some mobs may just be naturally resistant to magic (or take extra damage)

as for yasha vs koga, its 7(?) int vs 5* Mab, depending on the mob, 7 int might win. (i have both) i mainly only nuke in situations where my accuracy and physical damage are below my damage output with magic. (or the enemy is untargetable/immune to phys)

i didnt want to bring it up, but i feel for the alternate option, ninja's should be more concerned with magic as their secondary/alternate form of damage, and not the throwing argument (pointless)

just for a clarification on my nin sets: TP , HI (in/out) , jin, eva, pdt, mdt, ninjutsu nuke, ninj m.acc, utsu (recast/cast time)
i think the main nin's would agree. carrying pdt/mdt .. mdt especially.. is most beneficial ( over say M.atk)

nin should be a specialist, willing to adapt to any situation. if M.atk is that situation, its better to be prepared for it.

edit:5 Mab instead of 10. thx nightfyre~

[SpankWustler]

I think elemental Ninjutsu has the same pitfall as elemental Blue Magic: you have to put the gear for it somewhere if you want it to not suck, and other sets are more appealing to carry around.

Unlike throwing, at least, elemental Ninjutsu can still be useful in niche situations. Popping Futae and using Hyoton: San on a Paladin-flavored Orc or Demon is more interesting than standing there and thinking about one's life choices for thirty seconds.

[Zhronne]

as for yasha vs koga, its 7(?) int vs 10 Mab
Uh... Ok, I'll have to put myself under the light of shame and admit I'm particulary ignorant when it comes to Magic mechanics, but are you saying that the 5% damage boost on Koga head corresponds to 10MAB? Because as far as I know that shouldn't be the case, should it?

[Economizer]

Ninjutsu nukes are surprisingly good considering the short cast times and moderate to high damage.

I remember spamming Ninjutsu in a party - properly timed, even a weak Ninja nuke could boost the damage of a nuke like a skillchain did, at least in a low level party. I suspect the basic effect is still the same, if you want to work with your back line mages for some extra damage potential.

If you don't have a mage dealing magic damage in the back, you can always spin the wheel yourself for the extra damage, and stop on an enfeeble or something for a nice boost of accuracy on a resistant mob.

Don't forget that you can use the nukes to grab extra hate, even at range - there is a mob in Abyssea - Konschtat that flies out of melee range for example, that you pretty much have to nuke to keep hate. This is a powerful tool even if your aim isn't damage.

[Nightfyre]

Uh... Ok, I'll have to put myself under the light of shame and admit I'm particulary ignorant when it comes to Magic mechanics, but are you saying that the 5% damage boost on Koga head corresponds to 10MAB? Because as far as I know that shouldn't be the case, should it?

The damage bonus on Koga Hatsuburi and Iga Tekko +1/2 is not actually a unique multiplier, it's plain old MAB. Koga is actually MAB+5 though, not +10. Iga Tekko +1 is also MAB+5, Iga Tekko +2 is MAB+10.

Given that fact and the low base damage of our nukes, Yasha Jinpachi should outperform Koga Hatsuburi.

[Zhronne]

Oh I didn't know about that, I always read it was a % and always assumed it got applied after INT/MAB and all the other stuff. Thanks!
Guess it's the same for Yagentoshiro then, which gets reported to be 10% damage increase?

[esoR]

ah, thanks night, i'll update my sets, (only recieved info on iga+2 before so i assumed koga was the same) this means i can store my koga head ^^ still not quite sure on the feet however. af+1 (int+6) vs af2 (nin skill+10) unfortunatelyy, i dont have a parser to figure out which is better, so i'm sticking with af+1 atm

[Nightfyre]

Oh I didn't know about that, I always read it was a % and always assumed it got applied after INT/MAB and all the other stuff. Thanks!
Guess it's the same for Yagentoshiro then, which gets reported to be 10% damage increase?
I'd assume so but don't have one to check, someone else may know.


ah, thanks night, i'll update my sets, (only recieved info on iga+2 before so i assumed koga was the same) this means i can store my koga head ^^ still not quite sure on the feet however. af+1 (int+6) vs af2 (nin skill+10) unfortunatelyy, i dont have a parser to figure out which is better, so i'm sticking with af+1 atm
Ninjutsu skill's bonus for Ni nukes caps at some point, so Koga Kyahan would only add macc for them. I'm not sure about San nukes, but I'd be unsurprised if AF+1 were still better barring situations where you're getting resisted.

[Lumiya]

Going to Zombie bump this and throw in my two cents. Honestly my NIN is my BLM, I don't really use it for much beyond elemental damage. I also have to say that the damage is quite quite substantial and I even see a couple posts here selling it short. As for damage comparisons, I've done a bit of testing on it and is quite easy to do; find a mob, nuke it with X piece of gear on, switch to Y piece of gear, nuke it again.

Generally speaking 1INT>1Ninjutsu>1MAB from my observations though I did all tests in Abyssea. I haven't yet noticed a cap on Ninjutsu skill boosting my damage, but I also didn't try testing a full Ninjutsu skill build as it wasn't the best for damage. I usually run MM/Kirin/Ultimate atma's and those are the best I've found for damage potential; suprisingly Kirin beat Beyond except for Hyoton.

As for my gear, I use 2 Sekka+2(INT/MAB), Phantom Tathlum, Yasha Jinpachi(found it did the most damage), Ninjutsu Torque/Uggalepih Pendant/Artemis Necklace(I believe was name, shifting MAB/MACC on moon phase), Moldavite, Stealth Earring, Kirin's Osode, Iga Tekko+1, Snow Ring, Spiral Ring, Federation Army Mantle, Jungle Rope, Sangoma Lappa, and Koga Kyahan(also found was highest damage). I know I need to +3 weapons, upgrade ammo, 1 earring, +2 hands, both rings, back(if something new?), and waist also if something new. I would say a lack of good options in some slots is truly the most debilitating factor of Ninja nuking.

That is my setup though, my high nuke was around the 4k mark and yes I utilized a lot of game mechanics for that, my average in Abyssea is around 1k for Ni and 1.5k for San. I honestly wish I could quote better numbers but I don't get to use NIN to often anymore. If anyone has some gear suggestions that aren't overly difficult or pricey feel free to chime in as I don't keep up with new gear THAT well. As for anyone thinking about trying this sort of thing and not sure, go for it, it is a lot of fun to do and a viable source of damage. Really the only issue I have with it is the same issue I have with RNG, silly little hate caps. -.-;

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Depends on what you're doing. Nuking atmas are nearly essencial on that damn mode changing squid in attowah.

[esoR]

(necro)

semi un-related to previous discussion
can we PLEEEASE get some new nuking gear for nin? especially a new body? preferably one that looks good and isnt re-used from 2003? DRK is getting new nuking gear all the time, so should NIN. PUP and SMN are constantly given MaB gear and they have no natural nukes (aside from impact for smn.) PUP doesn't even have natural MP!

maybe put nin on something like this :
INT+15 Magic Accuracy+5 Magic Attack Bonus+8 Refresh
or
INT+10 MND+10 Magic Attack Bonus+10 Fast Cast (+5) Enmity-10
Ra/Ex 99 WHM BLM RDM SMN SCH

nin would be perfect for these piece's. right there at the end.

just throw us something please..
cause stuff like this:
waist
Magic Accuracy-15 Magic Attack Bonus+7 Magic Crit. Rate+10%
Ra/Ex 99 WHM BLM BRD SMN PUP SCH

is kind of insulting, where jobs that could use it are unable too. there are a ton of pieces like this, and it's getting old. they gave nin innin, then barely supported it.

so camate/bayohne/rukkirii(sp) please translate/pass this on to the dev team. if they have something in mind, it would be great to hear.

stop throwing pup on mage (magic attack) gear, throw nin/drk/cor on it instead.

[Alderin]

I typed up a big reply as I was reading your thread as a "critic my gear and give me feedback" but then later realised you weren't asking for it :)

My set is damn near identical to esoR's. Minus the Astute cape because I had lots of bad luck in sea and gave up. I also have been meaning to make ACP body with MAB (for COR & RNG wildfires primarily) but will also be using it for NIN nukes as well.

NIN nuking is a forgotten art in a way. Havn't seen people do it much these days - possibly because melee'ing with crit based atmas and spamming Hi is just far too powerful & efficient - however I do agree it is underrated.

Especially when trying to kill something with terrible spikes. (Balaur, I'm looking at you....)

I am yet to try it, but have always wanted to try solo nuke Turul to death on NIN/RDM... Someone please go try it for me.

[Alderin]

Generally speaking 1INT>1Ninjutsu>1MAB from my observations though I did all tests in Abyssea.

In regards to this ^ I disagree that this applies to all races / gear.

If you have nothing of something, it's going to have a big impact on everything.

By that I mean, if you stack lots and lots and lots of one stat, an extra +2 or +3 in that stat will make a much lesser impact as adding a +2 or +3 in a stat that you lack. (use Accuracy & attack for example... if you have 100,000 accuracy you are going to hit a lot, but if you have 0 attack your going to be hitting for 1...) You need a fairly healthy balance - that you can't really get without testing with your own gear/race.

However in saying that - the number one thing is Ninjutsu damage+ gear, as that effects the overall damage of your nuke, and not just a bite of it.

[Zhronne]

I would agree with the ninjutsu damage +x% thing, but someone in the previous page said that recent tests showed how the pieces with that stats on do not really increase damage by a %, but just add a certain amount of MAB.

No clue if that's true or not, but if it is then those pieces (Iga Tekko+2, Koga Tekko and Yagentoshiro that I can remember) should be considered as plain +MAB.

[Zhronne]

Especially when trying to kill something with terrible spikes. (Balaur, I'm looking at you....)
Yeah! I was helping a BLM/BRD friend the other day getting some seals on Magmatic Eruca in Atto, and then on Balaur. Was very effective to just use nukes with yonin to keep hate.
Was doing more damage than him! :P Altough he has bad gear and just a couple of bad atmas so I guess I shouldn't be too cocky about it lol but still it was fun! :D