Shield, and other skills mostly needing adjustments.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Okay, now, i really get pld is the master of shields, no question, but it still stands, there are 5 other jobs with shield skill! And combined, even if the other 5 were using shields, their combined total of shield blocks in an hour, would be less than half a pld's.

Im fine with pld being the best, between their gear, shields themselves, and skill, there is no competition at all, even a maxed out warrior (second place shield job) cant even hope to compare to a nude pld with an identical shield.

At 90 the shield list breaks down as such.

PLD - 361
WAR - 315
WHM - 280
BST - 255
RDM - 229
THF - 229

and i feel this is horrible, admittedly im not asking for a lot, but if theres jobs who can fall back upon them for defense, or need an offhand slot while unable to dual wield, i feel a little bit of an upgrade would be nice. Not to mention rdm's shield skill used to be closer to warrior's years ago, cant this be adjusted?

Im thinking a few tiers upgrades, enough to make them a passable option for the jobs that can use them. Below are my thoughts.

PLD - 361 (A+)
WAR - 341(B+)
BST - 335(B)
RDM - 335(B)
WHM - 325(B-)
THF - 325(B-)

Now my reasoning behind this, once again, war has a lot of defensive and hate grabbing options and tools, this still wont encroach much upon paladin. Bst and Rdm, neither having dual wield, and having SOME shields (Sentinel shield, tatami, genbu) which can provide them some martial enhancements, this could be a much needed improvement. White mage an Thief on the other hand, not to be forgotten, need still a passable amount of skill, but should also have a bit less in my opinion, as, at high levels (and low depentand on skill) most thieves tend to discard their shields for a second, natively offered dagger, and likewise, whm often use staffs, but would benefit from the option to quickly clutch a shield, and protect themselves. Other skills that could use some rounding off could be things like throwing, marksmanship, archery, parrying, and the like, possibly evasion too.

Just my thoughts, id love to hear other people's thoughts, because at this time, aside from select exceptions, none of those jobs has any reason to even equip a shield, and even if they were in a position they could benefit from one, their low skill prevents this from being an option.

[Neisan_Quetz]

They would first have to make shields other than Ochain/Aegis that matter equippable on jobs actually needing to use shields outside of certain solo situations/idle on a job that shouldn't be getting hit in the first place matter.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Not looking at this as a "SHIELD FOR TANKING" aspect as a shield to reduce damage taken, any shield (particularly genbu's) can do this, but the odds of the actual block processing are pretty slim at this time, it still only proves to make this point bigger as there are insufficient skill and shield options, to justify the skill, yet if the skill is to remain on said jobs, a first step is to make the skill improved, so the few good ones become more attractive.

[Neisan_Quetz]

In order for shield to proc you have to be facing the mob and taking an attack, in other words you have hate and are getting beat on at close range. So yea, it pretty much is just for tanking or Solo with some exceptions (although you don't have to be engaged).

BST - Solo
RDM & WHM - Typically aren't at the front taking hits to the face outside of solo
WAR - usually has better things than use a shield and can't use the better ones (by better, I mean the ones I already mentioned)
Thf - shouldn't be blood tanking, ever.

[SpankWustler]

BST - Solo

Even solo, Beastmaster wouldn't get much use out of higher shield skill due to Snarl making it possible to never be hit and pets having 3k more HP than players making it advantageous to never be hit. Since it's Jug Pets 4-EVAR now, Snarl is always available.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I only have memories of 75 Bsts always using Tatami shield no matter what.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Agreed you need to be taking a hit, but it doesnt change the fact that shield is still in its current state ineffectual, this is not a case of chicken or egg, and in the even hate does leak to you even momentarily, having the option is better than instantly just rejecting it. Lets take a page from the rdm forums we all frequent as i say this. This isnt a case of saying shield is effective, this is a case of asking the skill to be improved, and this isnt a case of "chicken or egg" where someone says "skill is too low and thats why shield isnt used" or "shields are so bad so we dont use them." But rather a request to have them improved. Granted it is your opinion where this can, or cant be used, but like it or not, we have the skill, and id rather see something made of them, even if it doesnt fit endgame preconceptions, even if just for solo, or for select events, i would gladly offhand a shield over NOTHING when i am unable to dual wield, and i feel it could be nice to have it do something other than gift me light modifiers of some sort. That is my opinion and my thoughts. Though i will say, i thank you for your input.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's more of 'before elemental trials existed there was no point to pick a shield for pure damage mitigation over Terra's and if you didn't need damage mitigation, you probably didn't need the shield at all'. Block rate on non Relic/Emp shields caps at 60-65% I believe? Think Genbu's was rated at being something like 45% including the PDT on it.

I actually am working on PDT shamshir to idle in over terra's - at least until I get oneiros grip. Also will probably use it for solo/subtanking (kinda) situations.

[Crocker]

As a BST I still use the Tatami Shield there isn't much better, dual wielding axes isn't always an option and even as /dnc you will attack alot faster with 1 axe.

Higher Shield skill for BST is needed I think since we have native shield skill and actually still use them. We should also get A+ rating in axe, the relic axe is bst only after all.

WHM having higher shield skill than a BST is just wrong.... why does a back line job have better shield skill than a front line DD.

[Neisan_Quetz]

As a BST I still use the Tatami Shield there isn't much better, dual wielding axes isn't always an option and even as /dnc you will attack alot faster with 1 axe.

Higher Shield skill for BST is needed I think since we have native shield skill and actually still use them. We should also get A+ rating in axe, the relic axe is bst only after all.

And do less damage than dual wielding so why use the shield /dnc?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Fact that dual wielding is better is noted, however it still doesnt compare to having a second option to fall back on.

[Leonlionheart]

You'd think that jobs that can get a relic in that weapon type would have better skill in such weapon type.

I.E. DRK/WAR/PLD and GS, RDM and Sword, RDM and dagger, BRD and dagger, BST and Axe

Edit: Not that RDM or BRD should melee, but if they are going as far as making a Relic/Emp why not give them a little love

[Crimson_Slasher]

Total agreement for brd's dagger skill, i think its the only job with under B for a main weapon, except maybe sch or blm, even then, i feel their staff or club skills should be superior.