Information on inventory relief, via staff consolidation, efforts

[Yugl]

Previously, SE has announced/hinted at efforts to reduce the number of staffs mages need to carry. Currently, we have witnessed the opposite. Since not all classes can access these staffs, some individuals have to maintain (Not necessarily carry) eight elemental staffs in addition to completed magian staffs. I've personally completed 8 Magian+2 staffs, so that that amounts to 16 inventory slots taken.

Given the current status, it looks as if there are a few options available:

1. Combine by effect: This method would entail synergizing, or through some other method, combining damages with similar stats. Note that this would probably mean branching them into different names.
Pros:
* The end result would consolidate staffs into 8 Elemental staffs, 1 Damage Staff, 1 Summoning Staff, and 1 Magic Accuracy staff.
* People only wanting outlying staffs can sacrifice effort for inventory; for example, if you only one Magic Accuracy staff, there is no need to complete the other staffs unless the final combination improves the Magic Accuracy further
Cons:
* People have begun efforts towards completing a variety of staffs, which means duplicating efforts if one wishes to save inventory after pursuing staffs from different categories; for example, since I did Earth Magic Accuracy and Cure staff, I would need to repeat those trials if seeking a single damage staff
* If further enhancement come with the final staff, it demands that players invest more time even if they just want the magic accuracy staff for one element
* Further combinations into a single staff (Avatar + Damage + Accuracy) requires people to obtain staffs outside their prospective interest or capability (EX: If you don't have SMN, well then...)

2. Combine by name: Given that the final product of Avatar, Damage, and Accuracy staffs currently retain the same name, it is possible to continue this path and have them combine at one
Pros:
* No need to branch into different names
* Allows people to obtain staffs in the manner most relevant to them (Avatar for SMNs, Damage for nukers, and so forth)
Cons:
* Race to the bottom: People will choose the easiest method, which undermines the struggle it takes to obtain one

3. Combine by availability (Jungle method): Allows for the combination of staffs past a particular juncture in the system of trials. This would essentially allow you to combine whatever you want, but only grant effects already present on staffs combined.
Pros:
* Easiest method since there are no stringent requirements
Cons:
* Would probably require one more individuating branch since it's difficult for existing combination techniques (Such as synergy) to pick out the augments on particular weapons
* Would effectively "end" the staff trials unless SE makes a different staff for each possible combination

Integration into a single staff: Whichever method you pick, aside from Jungle, you still have the

Other concerns
* Allow for the synergy of existing elemental staffs to save inventory, but remain inferior to Magian Staffs at any given point past Teiwaz

[Seriha]

Bit of a long-winded way to make an age-old request, but I'm for it being made again until SE actually does it.

Since it looks like +3 staves were on the plate, at least until they got pulled for QA, we could consider them the starting point for the 99 push. As is, I'd do the following.

Nuking paths:
Indra's Staff +3 + Vayu's Staff +3 = "Transfixion Staff"
Agni's Staff +3 + Surya's Staff +3 = "Fusion Staff"
Varuna's Staff +3 + Soma's Staff +3 = "Distortion Staff"
Kubera's Staff +3 + Yama's Staff +3 = "Gravitation Staff"

Those four could be achieved by some synergy synth involving their respective elements. The mesh could even be temporarily weaker than their individual counterparts in their initial states. Of course, you'll want to hop over to your friendly neighborhood Magian Moogle and begin the process of bringing them back up to speed. First trial could involve kills of one element resulting in the +1 with that element boosted, the next with the other element to make the +2 with both again equal. That would conclude that specific staff.

"Transfixion Staff +2" + "Fusion Staff +2" = "Aurora Staff"
"Gravitation Staff +2" + "Distortion Staff +2" = "Miasma Staff"

Some may have picked up on playing off Skillchain properties so far, and the above is the continuation in creating the next staff set. Again, trials could involve the respective elemental kills, or maybe branch into something fancy not yet implemented. Regardless of the method, it should definitely remain accessible to the majority. End results in both trees can finally lead to the creation of a single staff that boosts the power of all elements.

It could be a lot of work. Actually, I'd hope SE would be more lenient in making the kills 100 or less per phase if not doing trade-ins since the combined effort over melee weapons is far, far greater. When it comes to Relics, Mythics, or Empyreans feeling inferior in comparison, rather bluntly, they should be improved to match or exceed on top of their native perks.


As for the Perpetuation paths, they could have similar branching, but obviously different objectives. Keeping simplicity in mind, all the SMN would likely need to do is chase down mobs like Pavan, Akash, and other wandering Abyssea avatars for a set number of kills in the early phases. Plus it'd bring attention to SE needing to fix the Ifrit and Ramuh counterparts in Chasm and Inlet that just don't seem to spawn now. Phases after that could involve VNM kills in Abyssea of respective avatars, ideally nothing more than 5 on the T3 ones.

MACC staves I'm torn on. Unless SE gets mean with high end mobs, they're rarely needed these days. That in mind, I don't think they should be as hard to complete as the nuking damage counterparts. These could just stick to geode turn-ins or other new items.

Also, something would need to be done about the cure staff sharing a name with the light damage path since it could mean someone would not be able to advance both at a particular point without them branching.

[SpankWustler]

TARZAN CHECK FOR SQUIRREL!

But there's no squirrel here, just an awesome concept that deserves to be mentioned again no matter how many times it has been mentioned before.

[Korpg]

While your points are sound and I would like for this to happen, I have to ask of this:


Previously, SE has announced/hinted at efforts to reduce the number of staffs mages need to carry.

I do not recollect seeing anything of that nature, where is your source in this?

[Tarage]

I would love having the ability to combine the 8 perp staves into one staff. Please. Do this.

[Elexia]

I would love having the ability to combine the 8 perp staves into one staff. Please. Do this.

Would be too easy and not enough of a timesink so we won't ever see that happen.

[Gokku]

bumping for a quality invo saving idea

[Economizer]

I would love having the ability to combine the 8 perp staves into one staff. Please. Do this.

They already have it. It is called Nirvana.

[Joslyn]

They already have it. It is called Nirvana.

Well then they should make it so Nirvana is easily obtainable then just like the Trial staves but I doubt that will ever happen

[Septimus]

Would be too easy and not enough of a timesink so we won't ever see that happen.


They already have it. It is called Nirvana.


Well then they should make it so Nirvana is easily obtainable then just like the Trial staves but I doubt that will ever happen

Wait, what?

Since when is acquiring all 8 magian perpetuation staves easy? To do a single staff to the current +2 level, you have to kill between 1090 to 1170 mobs, most (900 to be exact) with the specific avatar. (Not to forget the geodes, but that is a different matter.) To get all 8, you need between 8720 to 9360 kills. While this is not as hard as getting a Nirvana, nothing is being handed to you when you try to get all of them. Some avatars (Garuda, Ramuh, and Ifrit) have some terrific blood pacts that makes grinding out their trials fairly easy, but certain other avatars (Levithan, Titan, and especially Carbuncle) have pretty terrible blood pacts that make their trials a slow, arduous slog up Unpleasant Mountain. (Pro tip: If the monster uses Self-Destruct or Final Sting, you don't get credit for the kill. Thanks for the Titan path!)

Secondly, Nirvana compared to a theoretical "Captain Planet Staff" are not the same. Currently, the +2 avatar-path staves (http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d78d1684c2905261d09c10e8ff6963c2.jpg) are DMG:52 Delay:366 -6 to perpetuation cost and -10 blood pact ability delay. The level 90 Nirvana (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Nirvana_%28Level_90%29) is DMG:90 Delay:402 Accuracy+30 Avatar perpetuation cost -7 Avatar: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+35 "Garland of Bliss" Aftermath (Incl. Avatars): Inc. Acc./Atk., Occ. attacks twice. In what way are they the same thing?

Any Summoner can tell you that you don't need a staff to cap your blood pact ability delay, it is fairly easy to do through gear, so that stat is not going to make a Captain Planet Staff better than a Nirvana. The Nirvana is a lot harder to get and has far better stats on it. (Whether or not Nirvana or any other Relic/Magian is worth the time and effort to get is a whole different debate.)

It takes a lot of work and dedication to make a full set of any magian staff branch, players' inventory shouldn't have to suffer because they are dedicated to their jobs.

[Tarage]

Please ignore the people who think this is somehow a bad idea. It isn't. Look at any other forum, like BG, and you'll see that people overwhelmingly approve of this.

[Tamoa]

There is no logical reason for anyone to argue against this awesome idea.

[Mirage]

The "fuse elemental staves into hybrid elemental staffs" idea is probably the best one in this thread. At least dual elements in one staff should be possible. For level 95 trials, I would say fusing them quad-elemental staves would be a good option.

Additionally, non-ex hybrid element staves made through synergy from NQ/HQ level 51 staves would also be a welcome change. Their potencies wouldn't need to be changed (well maybe a tiny bit, but I don't really care about this part), just fused together. This would be the inventory saving option for players who like to play around with mages, but don't play them enough to justify doing the huge ordeal that is magian trial staves. This could also lead to good things in the normal (non-synergy) crafting community.

[Rexen]

I'd love if they had some way to synth all 8 magian staves into 1 after you complete the trials. The final result would be "Perpetuation cost-6, Blood Pact Delay-10" or something like that, just get rid of the "<element> affinity:". I don't see why they don't do this, it's annoying having to have 16 staves if you have Summoner and Black Mage/Scholar and White Mage leveled.

I also think it would be cool if they did add higher tier elemental staves, say level 91 ones, that were equipable by all jobs. Give them elemental affinity+3 or something for the HQ versions, and NQ ones would be equivilant to the HQ level 51 staves. That way the specialists would get an added bonus, and other jobs which can get use from them - Blue Mage, Corsair, Ninja - could get a higher tier of damage rather than being confided to the level 51 versions.

[Panthera]

On a related note, didn't they mention combining all instruments into one using Synergy?

And yes, combining staves needs to happen.

[Barrinhos]

I agree with Yugl, there has been a growing neccesity for merging the staves

[Meyi]

I approve of this suggestion.

[Dallas]

I'm all for consolidating the staves, for SMN It's 1 worthless slot instead of 8.

[Finuve]

using this earlier idea

Indra's Staff +3 + Vayu's Staff +3 = "Transfixion Staff"
Agni's Staff +3 + Surya's Staff +3 = "Fusion Staff"
Varuna's Staff +3 + Soma's Staff +3 = "Distortion Staff"
Kubera's Staff +3 + Yama's Staff +3 = "Gravitation Staff"

people are mentioning synergy, why even do that, just make it a trial with "Indra's Staff +3 acquire 1 Vayu's Staff +3" and then u get the transfixion staff

though I'd wait til the 99 versions of the staves then have those be able to combine

[Terasan]

Liked OP, wholeheartedly agree with the notion that the Magian staves should be able to be combined at LEAST into Fusion, Fragmentation, Gravitation, Distortion staves, if not further than that. Even now, before obtaining my elemental obis, I'm something like 68/80 on my BLM at all times, so it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for meds, food (if applicable) and loot that may drop. Even combining them into L2 Skillchain properties would be a great inventory saver, but I would absolutely love L3 or even a single staff with, say, Elemental Damage +5.

[Seriha]

Terasan reminded me... Gorgets, Obis, and the Belts would all benefit from an eventual consolidated version of some degree, too.

[Ophannus]

Make a magian trial corresonding with a new staff. Make the final staff trial require you to trade all 8 of one +3 staff to get either:

Magic Affinity:Damage+7
or
Magic Affinity:Accuracy+7
or
Avatar Perpetuation-7
BP Delay-7

[Malamasala]

They also need a DD fusion. Empy + Occ hits 2-4 times would be a good fusion combo.

[Alhanelem]

staves not staffs

Not all staves are needed by all jobs; I can't imagine someone needing to own all elemental staves and all magian staves. Summoner hasn't needed them any of them except maybe light for a long time, black mage has had minimal need for light staves and most black mages have had little regard for elements other than thunder and ice (dark for drain/aspir/etc). WHM only needs a few of them.

They're never going to consolodate these staves, because they would consider it too strong for all of the effects to be combined. To get a universal staff, you'd have to make some sacrifices (and a few such staves exist, however difficult to obtain they may be).

Not saying at all that it wouldn't be nice for this to happen, I'm just being realistic.

[Kimble]

staves not staffs

Not all staves are needed by all jobs; I can't imagine someone needing to own all elemental staves and all magian staves. Summoner hasn't needed them any of them except maybe light for a long time, black mage has had minimal need for light staves and most black mages have had little regard for elements other than thunder and ice (dark for drain/aspir/etc). WHM only needs a few of them.

They're never going to consolodate these staves, because they would consider it too strong for all of the effects to be combined. To get a universal staff, you'd have to make some sacrifices (and a few such staves exist, however difficult to obtain they may be).

Not saying at all that it wouldn't be nice for this to happen, I'm just being realistic.

Im sorry, but.. what at that bold part. Maybe you need to explain what you mean there.

[Alhanelem]

Im sorry, but.. what at that bold part. Maybe you need to explain what you mean there.

What part of that needs explaining? You don't need any crafted or magian elemental staff to negate perpetuation cost on summoner and for non perpetuation cost purposes there are a number of good staves available for a fraction of the work required to obtain magian elemental staves.

(of course in the ridiculously hard to obtain department, there's also nirvana as an option)

[Elexia]

staves not staffs

I'll admit my native tongue is Japanese but....


Summoner hasn't needed them any of them except maybe light for a long time

If you're correcting someone else for using staffs instead of staves, maybe you want to reword some of what you wrote. Then again maybe it's just something in English I'm not understanding.

More on point, SMN has a use for Elemental Staffs (:3) if one didnt complete magian Staffs (:3).

[Yugl]

I can't imagine someone needing to own all elemental staves and all magian staves.

BLU and COR need elemental staffs still. Others will use magian.


They're never going to consolodate these staves, because they would consider it too strong for all of the effects to be combined. To get a universal staff, you'd have to make some sacrifices (and a few such staves exist, however difficult to obtain they may be).

You already have the strength of the staffs, so that's a bogus remark. Considering the strength of these staffs, people are more likely to give up situational pieces rather than Magian staffs. Considering how difficult they are to obtain, they warrant the power of a unified staff. Total the number of mobs you need to kill (Especially along the magic accuracy line) and you'll see what I mean.

[Dallas]

They also need a DD fusion. Empy + Occ hits 2-4 times would be a good fusion combo.

Yeah... no. Anyone but me crazy enough to own both?

[Alhanelem]

You already have the strength of the staffs, so that's a bogus remark.It's not a bogus remark. It would be like consolodating all situational gear for <job>'s <insert gear slot here> slot into one item. It's really not much different from that. Also, I'm not necessarily speaking of what *we* consider too powerful but rather what SE considers too powerful. Obviously SE considers

"All magic damage +20% in the elemental staff slot of the equation"
<insert all other individual ele. staff benefits here>

too powerful. Maybe we don't, but they do, and that's why it doesn't happen. That's all I'm saying.


people are more likely to give up situational pieces rather than Magian staffs.Umm... the Magian staves are the situational pieces. Each staff for a different avatar, or two that benefit all of them. Hmm... tough decision, especially considering you don't need them for their perpetuaiton at all, only for pet MAB...


I'll admit my native tongue is Japanese but....You're probably fooling everyone here then, because you don't sound like English isn't your native tongue. (Where's all the cool japenese smilies then? :( ) So... allow me to fix up my statment a bit here:
"Summoner hasn't needed any of them, except maybe light staff, for a long time."

[Seriha]

Unless SE suddenly bans gear swaps when a mob has enmity on you (and the fallout from that would be classic), the difference between one staff and eight is the inventory space if you're constantly swapping. They'll have done all the work. It's not like killing an E.Ron rabbit and getting The Prima Pole of Prismatic Pwnage. Who knows, maybe the Occult Accumen trait could actually be used.

[Alhanelem]

the difference between one staff and eight is the inventory space if you're constantly swappingNo it's not, because those staves all have attributes that go beyond the element-specific enhancement. Having all of those stats and skill bonuses and such at the same time would most certainly be stronger all together than having to switch between them. How much is something you can argue, but it would be more advantageous than just having the general magic bonus. The dev team clearly feels that there must be some kind of trade-off for not having to switch between the staves. To them, it's not just a matter of inventory space.

Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing this, but in my view, that's how they are seeing it.

[Yugl]

It's not a bogus remark. It would be like consolodating all situational gear for <job>'s <insert gear slot here> slot into one item.

Yes, that is why it's called consolidation. Again, the same strength for less inventory. The benefit of the staffs already exists and they're not mutually exclusive insofar as owning one staff along X element prevents you from obtaining the Y element equivalent.


"All magic damage +20% in the elemental staff slot of the equation"
<insert all other individual ele. staff benefits here>

too powerful. Maybe we don't, but they do, and that's why it doesn't happen. That's all I'm saying.If that's so powerful that it will never happen, then why did SE give us a staff with affinity damage+30% corresponding to each element in addition to other beneficial stats?



Umm... the Magian staves are the situational pieces. Each staff for a different avatar, or two that benefit all of them. Hmm... tough decision, especially considering you don't need them for their perpetuaiton at all, only for pet MAB...Oh, ya it's situational when I use my Indra Staff+2 alright. Sometimes I just feel I need to do less damage than I can afford, so I just don't equip my staff and leave on Terra's Staff. Yep.

Edit: The only sacrifice, apart from inventory, is TP. Of course, that puts SE in a bind with what they want. They want to give us crap like occult acumen. They don't actually want us using it though; they just want us to build TP and then dump it.

[Kari]

I'm not a huge mage player, but I definitely agree that the amount of staves you'd need to carry around is ridiculous.
You might not NEED all of them, but if you want to play to the best of your ability [in other words, not be gimp], you'll probably be carrying most of them.

I'm not sure why they didn't make the Empyrean Staff have a combined effect of magian staves. Even then, some jobs that aren't on it would still require other staves.

I can only imagine if they gave DDs this kind of inventory wasting to be good.
Imagine having to equip a full armor set to get the potency of an effect that we currently get from 1 piece.
For example, we get +30 Seconds to Sambas with the Dancer's Tiara. Imagine if instead, we got +5 Seconds from 6 different pieces, and all of these pieces had no other use. And then do this with a few other abilities and such.
Probably a terrible example, but that's how I'd feel if I was on a mage job 24/7 carrying around so many sticks.

[Orenwald]

I can only imagine if they gave DDs this kind of inventory wasting to be good.

my NIN is 71/80... I don't see your point lol

[Dodu]

No it's not, because those staves all have attributes that go beyond the element-specific enhancement. Having all of those stats and skill bonuses and such at the same time would most certainly be stronger all together than having to switch between them. How much is something you can argue, but it would be more advantageous than just having the general magic bonus. The dev team clearly feels that there must be some kind of trade-off for not having to switch between the staves. To them, it's not just a matter of inventory space.

Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing this, but in my view, that's how they are seeing it.

You may as well petition for the separation of all offensive physical attributes. The hell with this Adaman Hauberk and its generalized 'attack' on it, that needs to say 'Great Axe Attack'.

[Khiinroye]

Nin is an excellent example, since it already had this sort of thing happen for it. Imagine if you have to carry, in instead of your universal tools:

Uchitake
Tsurara
Kawahori-ogi
Makibishi
Hiraishin
Mizu-deppo
Jusatsu
Kaginawa
Sairui-ran
Kodoku
Soshi
Jinko
Kabenro
Mokujin

You might already carry these around already as non-universal tools:
Shinobi-tabi
Sanjaku-tenugui
Shihei

That's 14-17 inventory there, minus 3 for space back from universal tools. Your 71/80 ninja would be at 82/80 to 85/80.

The same applies with corsair, who went from cards for every element of shots to universal cards.

[JWhiskey]

Myself personally, I would be happy with the staves consolidated down to two; an aura staff (light aligned magic) and a void staff (dark aligned magic), each with three paths (DMG, ACC, -perp). Aside from the elemental affinity they could put moderate stats and resists from each of the staves elements and maybe make the aura staff -pdt and void staff -mdt.

[Dodu]

Or they could skip the unnecessary lore and give us.. damage staves, macc. staves, and perpetuation staves. Its an extreme amount of busywork for a very reasonable reward, and we'd still be carrying around, at least, Terra's and Surya's.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, that is why it's called consolidation. Again, the same strength for less inventory.THe whole reason SE created situational gear in the first place is because they consider having many effects on one item - even if you can carry multiple items that have those effects in total - too strong, or at least stronger. They want people to decide what to bring with them, rather than bringing everything.

Again, I'm just giving you their perspective. I'd love it if I could just have one set of items that does everything. But that's really not likely to happen.


That's 14-17 inventory there, minus 3 for space back from universal tools. Your 71/80 ninja would be at 82/80 to 85/80.

The same applies with corsair, who went from cards for every element of shots to universal cards.There is a trade-off though: The universal tools and cards cost more. They feel there must always be a tradeoff for convenience like this, it seems.

[Dirtyfinger]

Or they could skip the unnecessary lore and give us.. damage staves, macc. staves, and perpetuation staves. Its an extreme amount of busywork for a very reasonable reward, and we'd still be carrying around, at least, Terra's and Surya's.

Took 4 pages until someone hit the nail on the head.

[Meyi]

There is a trade-off though: The universal tools and cards cost more. They feel there must always be a tradeoff for convenience like this, it seems.

This is true, however, a little bit more gil or a little bit more time crafting is worth the inventory space.

Magian staves being condensed would still require that the player builds all of the staves required for the fusion to be magian'd to the max level. The work load would still be the same (if not more to encourage people to make staves they otherwise wouldn't have made), and there would probably be another magian quest to fuse them.

I can see it now...we get to level 99 on all the magian staves, then we are required to do another 300 monster set for each staff to change it from +4 to -4, to which we then take all of the -4s to the moogle, trade all 8 at once (or 4 depending on whichever stats are meshed), and have to kill another 1000 of some type of monster to finally get the Prism Staff of our dreams.

[Seriha]

No it's not, because those staves all have attributes that go beyond the element-specific enhancement. Having all of those stats and skill bonuses and such at the same time would most certainly be stronger all together than having to switch between them. How much is something you can argue, but it would be more advantageous than just having the general magic bonus. The dev team clearly feels that there must be some kind of trade-off for not having to switch between the staves. To them, it's not just a matter of inventory space.

Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing this, but in my view, that's how they are seeing it.

The magian staves don't have the bonus unique stats like PDT, HMP, and so on. Look at all the damage paths. They all currently end in Damage +5, Accuracy +1, and 12% faster cast for their respective elements. Lumping them all together would not improve those statistics unless SE chose to improve them, hence why the only change is how many inventory spots you get.

As others noted, some would probably still being carrying an Earth/Terra's and a cure staff, maybe an HMP one. They'd still gain more space, and more space means less inventory juggling to make sure you get drops, can change jobs more quickly, and so on.

[Meyi]

If we were to lump via name, I would definitely do every Magic Accuracy+5 staff to meld with my Magic Damage+5 ones. That'd definitely be another month or two of guaranteed money from me!

I'd still be content if we lumped via stats. Could even name them after the jobs that are most likely to use them (Goetia's Staff, Caller's Staff, etc).

[Alhanelem]

I'd be fine with trials that merge those staves then, I guess. I think the level 2 skillchain staves idea is the most reasonable from a give-and-take standpoint.

[Meyi]

Light and Darkness would be most reasonable to me if not all-in-one. Two is still better than eight.

We'd still have to put forth the work to receive inventory space. I don't understand the "trade-off" argument, since we'd clearly have to do something to fuse the staves together. Nobody's asking for it to be done for free.

[Yugl]

THe whole reason SE created situational gear in the first place is because they consider having many effects on one item - even if you can carry multiple items that have those effects in total - too strong, or at least stronger. They want people to decide what to bring with them, rather than bringing everything.

That's why I said the logic is inapplicable to staffs. People aren't going to sporadically choose to not bring a staff if they need to use it because the effect on them is so grand. The trade-off for most people is premature, in that they don't pursue the staff to begin with. This leaves SE with the choice between people not doing content they offer and allowing convenience for the player. I strongly suggest SE will choose the latter.



There is a trade-off though: The universal tools and cards cost more. They feel there must always be a tradeoff for convenience like this, it seems.Wrong. SE stated on the Japanese forums that they are looking into making universal tools more available. One way in which they achieve this is through synthesis recipes.

[Alhanelem]

People aren't going to sporadically choose to not bring a staff if they need to use it because the effect on them is so grand.Yes they are. I don't bring all 8 elemental staves with me on any job. I only bring the ones I need for what I'm doing. If you don't need to cast every element of spell, or you don't need the other stat benefits of all 8 stataves, then you don't need to carry them all with you.


Wrong. SE stated on the Japanese forums that they are looking into making universal tools more available.Actually, I'm not wrong, because they're "looking into it"; it hasn't happened yet. The price is not likely to drop below that of the cheapest used ninja tools; however much it does drop. However, if/when it does happen it will set a precedent for reducing/eliminating tradeoffs for convenience.

[Yugl]

Elemental staffs =/= Magian staffs. If people don't anticipate using an element often enough, they generally don't do the staff at all. In cases where people anticipate using an element, they'll give up any other piece of gear for the staff. Since they're the best item at what they do, no situational piece is going to triumph. The decisions you speak of are when two marginally good pieces come into conflict. These staffs are not marginal pieces of gear.

Universal tools not becoming cheaper than standard tools doesn't denote that SE wants you to make a trade-off; it's a function of the market. If they become popular, more people want to buy, and the price rises. It could also mean that SE doesn't want to screw all the crafts dependent on making non-universal tools. Your interpretation doesn't fit the evidence.

[Alhanelem]

Elemental staffs =/= Magian staffs. If people don't anticipate using an element often enough, they generally don't do the staff at all. In cases where people anticipate using an element, they'll give up any other piece of gear for the staff. Since they're the best item at what they do, no situational piece is going to triumph. The decisions you speak of are when two marginally good pieces come into conflict. These staffs are not marginal pieces of gear.Umm... Magian staves ARE situational in the same manner as the elemental staves were. Each one benefits one element. They are the best item for one purpose, but not for another. Thus, they are situational. I really don't know what you're trying to say here. The decision I speak of is when you need one item for one situation and another item for another situation. "s**t's situational."

[Kimble]

I'm really starting to think Alhanelem just likes to debate everything. No matter how many agree or how good an idea is, he will ALWAYS debate against it for the sake of debating.

At this point, hes just another Pchan and any debate with him is pointless because he will ALWAYS disagree.

[Alhanelem]

I'm really starting to think Alhanelem just likes to debate everything. No matter how many agree or how good an idea is, he will ALWAYS debate against it for the sake of debating.

At this point, hes just another Pchan and any debate with him is pointless because he will ALWAYS disagree.
I don't "just like to debate everything," and I absolutely do not go against everything for the sake of debating. But because people such as yourself just assume and decide this is the case, even if I agree with something, I will get raged against and have people like you posting attacks against me (and writing almost as if you think i'm not there). I'm not "pchan" whoever that is, and I do not just automatically disagree with everything.

[Elexia]

Wrong. SE stated on the Japanese forums that they are looking into making universal tools more available. One way in which they achieve this is through synthesis recipes.

Which we know everyone will overcharge for.

[Yugl]

Which everyone will undercut *


Umm... Magian staves ARE situational in the same manner as the elemental staves were. Each one benefits one element. They are the best item for one purpose, but not for another. Thus, they are situational. I really don't know what you're trying to say here. The decision I speak of is when you need one item for one situation and another item for another situation. "s**t's situational."

Most people don't go for situational staffs. Therefore, it's not "Do I bring X staff or not" in most cases. It's "Do I bother making X staff or not." How difficult is that to understand?

[Alhanelem]

Which everyone will undercut *People won't make them much except for themselves unless they can make a profit.


Most people don't go for situational staffs. Oh really. Most people I know have elemental staves or have magian staves, all of which are situational. You do not see people using any of the staves that are built for multiple situations or are decent for overall use.

Whether or not you choose to make something has nothing to do with whether or not it's situational. More than likely, you will need more than one of those staves. Thus, they are situational. You might not need all of them, but you won't be using just one of them 100% of the time.

How difficult is that to understand?

[Kimble]

So wait, wanting to do 30% more damage is situational now?

[Yugl]

People won't make them much except for themselves unless they can make a profit.

Are you honestly implying that undercutting means people can't make profit?


Oh really. Most people I know have elemental staves or have magian staves, all of which are situational. You do not see people using any of the staves that are built for multiple situations or are decent for overall use.How many of them have all 8 magian staffs? How many are in the process of obtaining all 8? How many have stuck with the most important elements and called it?


Whether or not you choose to make something has nothing to do with whether or not it's situational.Lol? Of course it does. I'm not going to pursue a staff I'll use in 1% of my entire FFXI experience even if it is the best in that 1% scenario.


More than likely, you will need more than one of those staves. Thus, they are situational. You might not need all of them, but you won't be using just one of them 100% of the time.HA! Here's where I throw your logic back at you. If I can combine them into Avatar, Damage, and Magic Accuracy staff, I would still need more than one of those staffs. By your logic, that means they're situational. Since they're situation, SE should have no problem with doing that because we still need to pick some items over others. BAM!

[Dallas]

I'm really starting to think Alhanelem just likes to debate everything. No matter how many agree or how good an idea is, he will ALWAYS debate against it for the sake of debating.

At this point, hes just another Pchan and any debate with him is pointless because he will ALWAYS disagree.
Doesn't sound like the guy I know. He does always disagree, but he really does think he's right. ;)

[Alhanelem]

So wait, wanting to do 30% more damage is situational now?
No, wanting to do 30% more damage with element X vs wanting to do 30% more damage with element Y is situational.


Doesn't sound like the guy I know. He does always disagree, but he really does think he's right.False on both counts. I don't always disagree, nor do I think I'm always right.


Are you honestly implying that undercutting means people can't make profit? Yes, if they have to undercut below cost to make the tools cheaper than just using the normal ones. It all depends on how much the recipes cost. You won't sell the crafted universal tools if they end up costing too much above what the normal tools cost. I suppose some people will happily pay more for convenience, but others will buy whatever is cheapest.


Lol? Of course it does. I'm not going to pursue a staff I'll use in 1% of my entire FFXI experience even if it is the best in that 1% scenario.I'm not sure what you're saying here, but it sure doesn't have to do with whether something is situational or not. If something is good in 1% of situations, that's still a situation and the item is still good for it, hence the word SITUATIONAL. Unless you only EVER need one out of the 8 staves, then yes, they're situational. Just because that situation isn't common enough for you to move your lazy behind to get it, doesn't mean the item doesn't have a situational benefit.


HA! Here's where I throw your logic back at you. If I can combine them into Avatar, Damage, and Magic Accuracy staff, I would still need more than one of those staffs. By your logic, that means they're situational. Since they're situation, SE should have no problem with doing that because we still need to pick some items over others. BAM!HAH! Here's where you failed to throw my logic right back at me, because your statement makes no sense! If you could combine all of the staves you neeed into one, it would no longer be situational, because you would not still need more than one of those staves. By my logic, that means it's NOT situational! BAM!

NOT situational = Something that is good all-around, and does not need to be swapped out for something else.
situational = something that is useful but does not cover all the bases and must be swapped for another item when a specific situation calls for it.

Do you only need one staff for general use? Then it's not situational. Do you need multiple staves for different purposes? Then they are situational. How hard is this to understand?

If I had a staff that boosted all elements in all ways as you described, then why would I need more staves? What would those other staves do?


How many of them have all 8 magian staffs? How many are in the process of obtaining all 8? How many have stuck with the most important elements and called it?If you don't have all 8 staves or aren't pursuing all 8, then that simply means you have no need of the situational benefit that the ones you didn't get offer. it doesn't suddenly strip the term "situational" from the list of words that would describe them.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If I had a damage staff, I'm not using it to cast break. If I had an accuracy staff, I'm not using it to cast Blizzard IV. So... it's still situational.

[Yugl]

Yes, if they have to undercut below cost to make the tools cheaper than just using the normal ones.

Too bad the statement was undercut, not undercut to the point of no profit. If it were the latter, your point would be redundant and stupid.


I'm not sure what you're saying here, but it sure doesn't have to do with whether something is situational or not.You said the choice to make or not make a staff does not depend on whether the staff is situational or not. It does.


[B]HAH! Here's where you failed to throw my logic right back at me, because your statement makes no sense! If you could combine all of the staves you neeed into one, it would no longer be situational, because you would not still need more than one of those staves. By my logic, that means it's NOT situational! BAM!

NOT situational = Something that is good all-around, and does not need to be swapped out for something else.
situational = something that is useful but does not cover all the bases and must be swapped for another item when a specific situation calls for it.

Terra's for Idle/PDT, Swords or Dagger for when RDMs need to en-melee certain NMs, and Plutos for resting. Still situational even if you combine the Avatar, Damage, and Magic Accuracy staff into one staff. BAM!



If you don't have all 8 staves or aren't pursuing all 8, then that simply means you have no need of the situational benefit that the ones you didn't get offer. it doesn't suddenly strip the term "situational" from the list of words that would describe them.Too bad that's not the component of your argument I'm at conflict with. Your argument contains several point, the most relevant being that 1) SE wants you to choose between gear 2) Staffs are situation 3) SE makes gear situational so that you'll choose to carry some pieces and not others at given times. From this, you inductively argue that SE will not combine staffs because they want to maintain 3 and the only way to do so is to keep players from choosing to carry one piece over another. My counter is that Magian staffs are likely the last piece of gear a player is going to give up when choosing which pieces to carry or not because people often don't do the Magian staffs they'll marginally use. Hence, they won't satisfy (3). If they don't satisfy (3) already, SE can combine them without a problem.

[Alhanelem]

Terra's for Idle/PDT, Swords or Dagger for when RDMs need to en-melee certain NMs, and Plutos for resting. Still situational even if you combine the Avatar, Damage, and Magic Accuracy staff into one staff. BAM!If I'm a summoner, what do I care if an RDM needs a sword for enspells? The staff isn't situational to *me*. The staff wouldn't be situational to a black mage. The staff wouldn't be situational to a white mage. The job you're playing matters. The only way you could make an item like that completely nonsituational to all jobs would be a weapon that's "all jobs, level 1, DMG:150, "All effects of all spells, abilities and all stats +30%". Think we'll ever get that? probably not...


Hence, they won't satisfy (3). If they don't satisfy (3) already, SE can combine them without a problem.They still satisfy (3), unless you only get one of the staves and only ever need one of the staves.

[Yugl]

If I'm a summoner, what do I care if an RDM needs a sword for enspells? The staff isn't situational to *me*. The staff wouldn't be situational to a black mage. The staff wouldn't be situational to a white mage.

SMN would want Terra's/Plutos. RDM would want sword/dagger+Terra's (Unless using PDT Sword + Genbu's) + Pluto's on occasion. BLM wants Terra's/Plutos. WHM wants Terra/Plutos/Owleyes+Genbu's Shield. Still situational. BAM!



They still satisfy (3), unless you only get one of the staves and only ever need one of the staves.

They don't satisfy (3) because you can't choose between bringing gear you don't have and another piece of gear.

[Alhanelem]

They don't satisfy (3) because you can't choose between bringing gear you don't have and another piece of gear. Um, what? Yes, you can choose, unless, like I said, you only actually need one out of the eight. If you need more than one, you'll have more than one, and you will be choosing between a piece of gear you have and another piece of gear.

Your funny logic just doesn't make any sense.


SMN would want Terra's/Plutos. RDM would want sword/dagger+Terra's (Unless using PDT Sword + Genbu's) + Pluto's on occasion. BLM wants Terra's/Plutos. WHM wants Terra/Plutos/Owleyes+Genbu's Shield. Still situational. BAM!Bam? what are you bamming? you haven't refuted anything I've said here.

If I had an all-in-one elemental staff (be it crafted or magian), why would I need a terra's or pluto's? In fact, why would any of the jobs you listed need those if they had an all-in-one staff?

Are you saying I'd need pluto for healing MP? Who rests MP anymore?

Terra's staff? When do I ever NEED that on SMN or BLM or WHM if I have an all in one staff?

[Yugl]

Um, what? Yes, you can choose, unless, like I said, you only actually need one out of the eight. If you need more than one, you'll have more than one, and you will be choosing between a piece of gear you have and another piece of gear.

Your funny logic just doesn't make any sense.

Ok, then you can still choose between Ultra Staff, Terra's Staff, Owleyes+Genbu's Shield, and Sword/Dagger. And since, according to you, I can "choose" between gear I don't have and those I do, it wouldn't be a problem for SE to combine all the aforementioned weapons into one. After all, I'm still making a choice between carrying that and onion dagger, even if I don't own a onion dagger.



If I had an all-in-one elemental staff (be it crafted or magian), why would I need a terra's or pluto's? In fact, why would any of the jobs you listed need those if they had an all-in-one staff?Because a combined magian staff still lacks PDT+Refresh+Cure Cast Reduction+hMP+Evisceration+CDC.

[Alhanelem]

Once again, you ability to make no sense astounds me. Why are you talking about things you don't have? Let's see. I need to enhance slow, so there's my magian earth staff. Next, I need to cast thundaja. There's my thunder magian staff for that. Lets just say those are the only two things I ever need to do, and I only have those two staves. I have to choose between casting slow with the earth staff, and casting thundaja with the thunder staff. Two different situations each calling for a different piece of gear.

Like I said for the 50th time, unless you only ever need one staff, you will need to switch between one or more weapons, and thus (3) is fufilled.


EviscerationIs not something you find on a staff. whoa, we're making less and less sense by the sentence.

[Yugl]

They don't satisfy (3) because you can't choose between bringing gear you don't have and another piece of gear.


Um, what? Yes, you can choose


Once again, you ability to make no sense astounds me. Why are you talking about things you don't have?

Aaaaaaand we're done here.



Is not something you find on a staff. whoa, we're making less and less sense by the sentence.

Which means an ultra staff is still situational! Hence, SE should have np making it.

[Alhanelem]

Which means an ultra staff is still situational! Hence, SE should have np making it. When would I ever use evisceration?


Aaaaaaand we're done here.Good, I'm glad you've decided to give up, because you discovered you actually aren't making sense.

[Tarage]

Alhanelem, stop talking. NO ONE AGREES WITH YOU. Go away.

It's not 'overpowered' to be able to take 8 staves that do the same thing and condense them down to one. Or are you in the camp that being able to stack crystal clusters is 'overpowered'.

Seriously. Your argument is wrong, you are wrong. Go. Away.

[Kimble]

I dont think its overpowered to make one staff have Magic damage +5 and -12% magic casting time another one with pre cost -6 and BP delay -10. How would it be broken to save inventory space?

[Alhanelem]

Alhanelem, stop talking. NO ONE AGREES WITH YOU. Go away.

It's not 'overpowered' to be able to take 8 staves that do the same thing and condense them down to one. Or are you in the camp that being able to stack crystal clusters is 'overpowered'.

Seriously. Your argument is wrong, you are wrong. Go. Away.
Someone didn't read the thread. You are calling SE wrong, because as far as I can tell, SE feels this way. SE is the one who feels that all the staves rolled into one would be too powerful.

You know what? I would LOVE to have all 8 staves rolled into one. I'm simply explaining why it won't happen.

So maybe you should go read the *&#^$ thread before you continue to attack me and being immature.


I dont think its overpowered to make one staff have Magic damage +5 and -12% magic casting time another one with pre cost -6 and BP delay -10. How would it be broken to save inventory space?I agree. I would love to have it. Again, I'm only trying to explain away why SE won't make it happen.

You people have just decided to hate on me and not even really read or try to understand what I'm saying. Little did you know I was agreeing with you the whole time. I WAS ONLY TRYING TO EXPLAIN, OR PERHAPS HYPOTHESIZE IS THE WORD, WHY SE WILL NOT DO IT.

Obviously something about how I go about discussing things is confusing people or causing them to get the wrong idea, because now I get perosnally attacked even when I agree with the person doing the attacking!

[Kimble]

Well, perhaps stop it and wait for SE to actual give us a response.

You seem like you are trying to pass that what you think SE will say is fact, when it is not.

[Raksha]

I have a useful suggestion:

How about adding the Obi effects to the magian staves?

[Alhanelem]

Well, perhaps stop it and wait for SE to actual give us a response.

You seem like you are trying to pass that what you think SE will say is fact, when it is not.No, I'm not passing it as fact. I am however passing it as a probable hypthesis, as they have made statements in the past that would imply that something like an all-elements-in-one staff is not likely.


How about adding the Obi effects to the magian staves? would be cool, to be sure, but now we're talking about combinging two items in different gear slots. That would eliminate the need for any of those items and allow you to wear a belt with completely different effects. Don't you think that might be taking it a little far? Don't get me wrong, though, because I like the idea, just saying.

[Economizer]

That would eliminate the need for any of those items and allow you to wear a belt with completely different effects.

There aren't a lot of good belts you can wear - the best belts you can wear currently are the Obi, or if none of them are an option, some form of Fast Cast or Haste belt, or a belt that gives like 5 MAB or 10 INT or MND. The obi are so far ahead of any other equip option except when casting stuff that isn't affected by any more potency like Raise or certain enhancing magic (stuff you'd macro away from the obi for) that it wouldn't really hurt much to include this into the elemental staves.

In fact, the elemental staves don't have much further to go currently, so it sort of makes sense these effects would be added. I've heard that the cure potency staff for example, is only going up 1% in the next five levels, and the most common assumption is that by 99 it will only go to 25%. Two percent in nine levels is pitiful for the cost of upgrading - I certainly hope there is more to the upgrade then that.

All that said, if SE decides to make the staves work like obi in addition to other effects, the trial will probably include either farming the parts for the obi, or turning in an obi itself to make the staff. If the even plan on it. But I don't think that a couple extra INT or MAB is going to be the reason they wouldn't do this if they plan on not doing it.

[Kuishen]

ITT: Alhanelem thinks he knows how the Devs think.

Tell me Al, since you seem to have an in with the Devs, why don't you expand on some things that I'm sure a lot of people are very interested in?

Why are most mythics shit?
Why do the Devs continue to make melee based Relic/Mythic/Emp staves for BLM and SCH?
Why does RDM not have native staff skill?

There are a great many mysteries I'm sure people would be delighted to know since you seem to understand the Devs more than any of us.

[Rearden]

Analhelm ruining another great idea. You posted what you had to say, you disagree with great ideas all over the place.

You also like to argue and cause topics to go...off topic. If this wasn't true you would have stopped bickering after your first post and let people continue discussing the topic of combining the staves. We get it, you and Koprg have 70 extra inventory slots; the rest of us do not.

In before you say "I WILL NOT BE HELD DOWN" or some other martyrish excuse for why you need to keep propagating your ideas. You've said your peace and we disagree. Leave it at that. Any continuation to the contrary is an admission of guilt as far as WANTING to argue and WANTING to cause trouble in every topic you post in. That's called trolling and it is not okay on these message boards.

[Eurell]

Someone didn't read the thread. You are calling SE wrong, because as far as I can tell, SE feels this way. SE is the one who feels that all the staves rolled into one would be too powerful.


Did SE ever say that? Don't tell people they are disagreeing with SE, when SE didn't say anything. They are disagreeing with you.

Noone wants to hear your explanation of why SE won't do anything 50 times in one thread. Are you allowed to say it? Of course, but once is enough, and when everyone in the thread disagrees with you for the next 5 pages, its time to bow out and let people discuss what they want to discuss, instead of continuing an argument that is obviously going nowhere.

[Vivik]

Viewing threads that Analhelm hijacks gives me a headache...

Along the lines of combining staves, I think it's a good idea. Maybe even a staff sack or a pouch of some kind would be cool too. Not saying that it would be easy or possible to implement, would just be cool is all.

[Divinius]

In my opinion, a very likely reason that SE devs haven't yet considered combining staves is that they aren't "done" with the trials they have planned for them. Assuming that they intend to continue to add trials for the existing staves to makes them better as the level cap increases further, it would make sense that they would want those staves to be at their final stage before any kind of combination were to take place. Merging existing staves now wouldn't make sense if they plan to add more trials for them between now and 99. If they were going to merge them, the would most likely want to merge the final versions.

[Rearden]

@Div

While that may be true, the point of this topic is to suggest/request that this is the direction they take the staves in.

In fact, we already know (due to the test server) that the direction SE took the staves in was poor, and due to our complaints they have actually removed the Elemental trials from the 95cap update next week until they can figure out what to do. (SE made the staves +6 and +0, for example, +6 affinity with +0 accuracy, essentially making those staves worthless outside of magic burst on anything those staves are actually useful for)

[Divinius]

@Div

While that may be true, the point of this topic is to suggest/request that this is the direction they take the staves in.
Oh, I understand, and agree. My post was mostly just a counter-argument to people in this thread that are saying things like "Obviously SE doesn't plan to combine staves, since they haven't done it yet. They feel it would make them too powerful." I was simply proposing an alternate (and in my opinion, more probable) reason why SE may have not considered a staff combination trial as of yet.

Like you and most all others, I sincerely hope that when the time comes, SE does choose to add a trial (or other method) that will allow the combination of multiple elements into one staff, if you have all of the single element ones completed. I will officially add in my vote, that this is an excellent idea, and should be implemented.

[Alhanelem]

ITT: Alhanelem thinks he knows how the Devs think.

Tell me Al, since you seem to have an in with the Devs, why don't you expand on some things that I'm sure a lot of people are very interested in?

Why are most mythics shit?
Why do the Devs continue to make melee based Relic/Mythic/Emp staves for BLM and SCH?
Why does RDM not have native staff skill?

There are a great many mysteries I'm sure people would be delighted to know since you seem to understand the Devs more than any of us.

I don't "Have an in with the devs." it is an inference, or hypothesis, if you will, about what they may be thinking, based on previous statements by the community team about things they are/aren't willing/able to do. It is NOT intended to be treated as an absolute fact. That said, I personally think that if they were ever going to give us a universal magic boost staff, that they would have done it by now.

1) I wouldn't agree that "most mythics are s&#t
2) They don't "continue to do this", and the mythics are not melee based. Anyone who expected ANY relic/mythic/empyrean to undergo some kind of radical transformation was expecting too much and should know by know that it is unusual for SE to make such drastic changes to something (note "unusual", not "never done"
3) They are actually changing this, last I heard.


Noone wants to hear your explanation of why SE won't do anything 50 times in one thread. Are you allowed to say it? Of course, but once is enough, and when everyone in the thread disagrees with you for the next 5 pages, its time to bow out and let people discuss what they want to discuss, instead of continuing an argument that is obviously going nowhere.Not "everyone" disagrees with me. Many people, as it turned out, misunderstood me, because i was actually agreeing with them about a universal staff being a good idea (the actual topic.) If you do not want to hear about something that I post about, then DO NOT ENGAGE ME ON IT! However, you're so determined to convince me that I'm wrong about anything and everything, that you seem to be unable to resist engaging me. That's not my problem.

In case people STILL don't get it: I completely support and agree with the idea of a universal magic staff. I always did and still do. I ONLY was trying to offer an explanation as to why it isn't being done, and you all assumed that I was disagreeing with the OP because you assume I disagree with everything when I don't. Here's a summary of what happens.

1) I comment on a thread
2) Someone misunderstands the comment, assumes I completely disagree with a statement, and tries to prove me wrong about it usually in an aggressive, offensive manner, under the false pretense that I actually disagreed in the firsit place.
3) I defend myself
4) I continue to be attacked and argued against
5) repeat steps 3 and 4
6) Crap like this happens.

People refuse to take their own advice when they are as much responsible for the situation. if you think something I said is full of crap and you can't be civil about it, then don't respond. You have as much power to end a conversation as I do.

[Meyi]

I would like to ask you to refrain from hypothesizing what Square Enix is thinking then, please. If you have some insightful knowledge into how the Dev team is thinking we would be thrilled to hear it. However, as you have stated that you have no such insight, then stop. None of your posts indicate that you are hypothesizing, it sounds as if it's all being declared as fact.

When you do not know something for certain, or when you are speculating, a term similar to "I think" is used. However none of the posts sprinkled throughout this thread have had any inkling of speculating.

If you agree with the OP, then stop arguing. State that you like the idea and move on. Arguing with someone you agree with is stupid.

[Alhanelem]

When you do not know something for certain, or when you are speculating, a term similar to "I think"I did. I said "In my view, this is how they see it" several pages ago.


State that you like the idea and move on. Arguing with someone you agree with is stupid. I couldn't agree more. But it's difficult to stop when half the forum keeps trolling you and/or doesn't actually seem to see that you agree. If I'm being attacked, it's an instincitve reaction for me to defend myself. Frankly I think this is most such people enjoying breaking me down for their own amusement, because if they didn't enjoy it, I would think it would make the most sense to stop. I myself do not get jollies from arguing, but it is difficult to break away when people put you on the defensive, because doing so sends an inaccurate message of how you really feel.

[Eurell]

Noone wants to hear your explanation of why SE won't do anything 50 times in one thread. Are you allowed to say it? Of course, but once is enough, and when everyone in the thread disagrees with you for the next 5 pages, its time to bow out and let people discuss what they want to discuss, instead of continuing an argument that is obviously going nowhere.



Not "everyone" disagrees with me. Many people, as it turned out, misunderstood me, because i was actually agreeing with them about a universal staff being a good idea (the actual topic.)

Hmm, I just read through the topic, Im not sure how I missed these "many people". Oh, nvm, I missed it becausse they didnt say anything. So you're just assuming people are misunderstanding you, as opposed to disagreeing not only with the things you say, but how you say them.



If you do not want to hear about something that I post about, then DO NOT ENGAGE ME ON IT! However, you're so determined to convince me that I'm wrong about anything and everything, that you seem to be unable to resist engaging me. That's not my problem.

How many times have I responded to you? This is maybe the 3rd since the creation of this forum? I didn't even say that you were wrong is the funny part (aside from trying to tell us what SE thinks). I said you can say w/e you want, but maybe, for the sake of the forum, the thread, and everyone's sanity, stop posting when it's obviously just going to cause arguments.


In case people STILL don't get it: I completely support and agree with the idea of a universal magic staff. I always did and still do. I ONLY was trying to offer an explanation as to why it isn't being done, and you all assumed that I was disagreeing with the OP because you assume I disagree with everything when I don't. Here's a summary of what happens.

1) I comment on a thread
2) Someone misunderstands the comment, assumes I completely disagree with a statement, and tries to prove me wrong about it usually in an aggressive, offensive manner, under the false pretense that I actually disagreed in the firsit place.
3) I defend myself
4) I continue to be attacked and argued against
5) repeat steps 3 and 4
6) Crap like this happens.

People refuse to take their own advice when they are as much responsible for the situation. if you think something I said is full of crap and you can't be civil about it, then don't respond. You have as much power to end a conversation as I do.



Idk, maybe I'm reading into it wrong here, but the YELLING IN CAPS doesn't seem very civil to me. So maybe take your own advice (and mine, we agree!) and stop responding.

[Eurell]

I couldn't agree more. But it's difficult to stop when half the forum keeps trolling you and/or doesn't actually seem to see that you agree. If I'm being attacked, it's an instincitve reaction for me to defend myself. Frankly I think this is most such people enjoying breaking me down for their own amusement, because if they didn't enjoy it, I would think it would make the most sense to stop. I myself do not get jollies from arguing, but it is difficult to break away when people put you on the defensive, because doing so sends an inaccurate message of how you really feel.

Posted as I was, or I would've made one response. I understand wanting to defend yourself if you feel attacked. What I don't agree with is your last sentence there. If you simply stopped responding and feeding into it all, people wouldn't know how you feel, nor would they care, because you stopped, and the argument is over. If you're convinced people are just trolling you (some are, some aren't) maybe be the bigger man and stop feeding them?

[Alhanelem]

Well I didn't want to specifically say it, but that "inaccurate message" you're sending is "I'm wrong, you're right." But, I guess there's no way to leave a conversation without effectively saying that. You do not want to stop when you feel you are being misunderstood, as I often am. So I continue, trying to restate my perspective in a way that people will understand. That's no easy task though. Everyone just decides that I'm against anything and everything and responds to me under that assumption. but when I am misunderstood this way, people call it "backpedaling." I'm not backpedaling, I'm trying a different way of saying something in the hope that you will understand it.


How many times have I responded to you? This is maybe the 3rd since the creation of this forum? Not specifically directed at you, but generically at all of the respondents who trolled me for 4 pages. I'm not singling you out nor did I intend for you to feel like the sole target of the post.

[Vivik]

-Anyone who does not agree with you is a troll

-Your wording of the majority of your posts is presented as facts

-Nobody likes a know-it-all

- You start off almost every post with trying to make the person you're quoting feel inferior

- You argue about everything and anything (even about whether you are arguing or not)

- Almost every thread you post in ends up about you and how everyone is not understanding because we are in some way dumber than you. ( starting to think that's by design)

If I missed anything I'll edit my post but this sums up pretty much how I view you. Not a personal attack, just the way I see it. I'm also not gonna say I have never trolled you, but you deserved it.

[Winrie]

-Anyone who does not agree with you is a troll

-Your wording of the majority of your posts is presented as facts

-Nobody likes a know-it-all

- You start off almost every post with trying to make the person you're quoting feel inferior

- You argue about everything and anything (even about whether you are arguing or not)

- Almost every thread you post in ends up about you and how everyone is not understanding because we are in some way dumber than you. ( starting to think that's by design)

If I missed anything I'll edit my post but this sums up pretty much how I view you. Not a personal attack, just the way I see it. I'm also not gonna say I have never trolled you, but you deserved it.

that pretty much sums it up

[Alhanelem]

-Anyone who does not agree with you is a troll
False. Only people who personally attack me and continue to bait responses from me are trolls. Disagreement itself is not necessarily trolling.

-Your wording of the majority of your posts is presented as facts
This is false. I do not present opinions as facts. Any appearance of this is never intended, and a polite request can clear it up.

-Nobody likes a know-it-all
I'm not a know-it-all (Or at least, it is not my intention to come off this way)

- You start off almost every post with trying to make the person you're quoting feel inferior
I'm sorry if something I said makes you feel inferior, but I do not do this, and I do not specifically start posts in such a way as to do this.

- You argue about everything and anything (even about whether you are arguing or not)
I can be argumentitive, but I do not argue about everything and anything. There's a difference between argument and discussion.

------


Almost every thread you post in ends up about you and how everyone is not understanding because we are in some way dumber than you.While this IS about not being understood, it is NOT about anyone being "dumber" than me (which I have never, ever said). I have a neurological disability known as Aspbergers. What comes with it is extreme social difficulties and difficulty in expressing myself with clarity. I do not want to make anyone feel dumb, and I do not want to offend anyone. This simply comes about as I struggle to grasp everyday social nuances most of you take for granted. People like me are often highly intelligent but have difficulty expressing their thoughts to others.
(I'm almost sure it was a mistake now to say that, as I will probably become the butt of some kind of disability joke. But I felt like that had to come out.)

[Meyi]

I have to admit, I generally cannot stand people with Aspbergers or Autism because every single one I have met thus far has easily gotten under my skin with their rude behavior.

Constantly debating in every thread is no exception. If you have a social disability, then let us help clear it up for you; we don't appreciate the way you're dealing with the topics. If you disagree, that's perfectly acceptable and you're more than welcome to post it. Same with if you agree, you're more than welcome to post it. However, do try to keep the posts to a minimum unless new information is added. And by new I don't mean a different way of looking at it, I mean actual new information, such as maybe Square Enix having just released information, or perhaps an article you stumbled across that would help prove your point further, etc.

With these kinds of topics there really isn't a whole lot to debate. You either like the idea, or you don't. If this topic was more open to discussion then debating would be acceptable, but here...

I'm just tryin' to help you out Alhanelem. If you are sincere in trying to get along with the community and not turn everyone against you I know you'll take my advice.

[Vivik]

------

While this IS about not being understood, it is NOT about anyone being "dumber" than me (which I have never, ever said). I have a neurological disability known as Aspbergers. What comes with it is extreme social difficulties and difficulty in expressing myself with clarity. I do not want to make anyone feel dumb, and I do not want to offend anyone. This simply comes about as I struggle to grasp everyday social nuances most of you take for granted. People like me are often highly intelligent but have difficulty expressing their thoughts to others.
(I'm almost sure it was a mistake now to say that, as I will probably become the butt of some kind of disability joke. But I felt like that had to come out.)

You can quote me and say FALSE! all you want. I'm not looking for your approval or disapproval on how I feel.

I won't stoop so low as to make fun of your disabilities so long as you don't use it as a crutch to act like an ass.

[SNK]

Summoner hasn't needed them any of them except maybe light for a long time

wut?


I'm just being realistic.

.................lol

[noodles355]

-Your wording of the majority of your posts is presented as facts
This is false.
LOL
123456789

[Alhanelem]

You can quote me and say FALSE! all you want. I'm not looking for your approval or disapproval on how I feel.

I won't stoop so low as to make fun of your disabilities so long as you don't use it as a crutch to act like an ass.
By no means is it meant as an excuse, only as a bridge to better understanding. All I ask for is a little bit of patience, and of civility. Feel free to politely ask me to rephrase something or clarify a statement if you think I might be intending a different meaning than you've gathered, as this happens a lot. People like me have a very different thought process from the average person, so that is to be expected.


wut? What isn't making sense to you with what you quoted?

With the advent of the empyrean armor, Summoner only needs a few things in a staff (only considering real existing staves), and a small number of them have a few optional wants as well.

-Cure potency (light staff)- the only elemental staff I regularly carry.
-Avatar attack and magic attack
-summoning magic skill is also nice

Things that are not required on a staff-
-Avatar perpetuation- If you have the empyrean set, an evoker's ring, and other perpetuation gear that you would wear anyway, you can easily negate perpetuation cost and use a staff that has none but has
-Healing MP: Does anyone really ever have to sit and rest anymore? There is so much MP recovery available in this game now that resting for MP is rare in my personal experience (Not to be taken as an absolute fact). I usually don't carry a pluto's staff around anymore on summoner because it is simply quite rare for me to ever need to rest.

[Modoru]

Aspergers?

...Please don't end up like Rosina, mate. Just, don't.

That's all I'm going to say.

[Alhanelem]

Aspergers?

...Please don't end up like Rosina, mate. Just, don't.

That's all I'm going to say.Don't know any Rosinas. Don't try to take this out of context or make it sound like something it isn't. We are reasonable, intelligent people who just suck terribly at social interaction aka interpersonal skills.

[Rearden]

Please do the intelligent thing then; when you disagree with something, state your piece and move on. It's okay to disagree, but the level you take it often derails threads and doesn't serve to move the topic any further.

In the case of this thread, we get that you don't agree with us, but you aren't SE, so arguing SE's point of view when SE has no point of view and in this case has actually admitted what they thought was a good idea wasn't, then it's time to move on.

[Raksha]

In reply to my idea about adding obi effect to staves:



would be cool, to be sure, but now we're talking about combinging two items in different gear slots. That would eliminate the need for any of those items and allow you to wear a belt with completely different effects. Don't you think that might be taking it a little far? Don't get me wrong, though, because I like the idea, just saying.

Best case scenario you'd pick up some MAB and/or INT. Would adding 5MAB to the magian staves be overpowered? I doubt it.

Rather than just ratcheting up the +affinity on the staves all the way to lvl99, it'd be nice to vary the effects a little (like they did with the last update by adding -cast/recast time). Adding obi bonus sounds like a good, different effect.

[Orson]

I'd love to see this happen even if it's through Synergy.

Preferably I'd just like to see the staves from Trials of the Magians combine. As some people said trade Indra's Staff + Vayu's Staff + some addition trophy items from NMs = Transfixion Staff. Then you could combine Transfixion Staff + Fusion Staff + Trophy items = Light Staff and then Light staff + Dark staff + trophy items = Prismatic Staff. Seriously SE make this happen it's a huge time sink but people would love to do it and it still forces everyone to complete all the different staves.

[Economizer]

Ignoring the drama, a few thoughts:


Why does RDM not have native staff skill?

The best reason I can think for this is that SE had a mix of wanting RDM to melee with a Sword/Dagger, and that they thought Red Mage with Spirit Taker would be too powerful.

-

I think that if SE does make universal Staves - aside from merging the Affinity staves of the same element like they should - it will involve getting some more universal staff to merge them to.

For example, getting Nirvana is hard, and although getting all the avatar perp staves might be hard, I don't think SE should just let people merge them without a base. Bahamut's Staff or the Astral Signa would be a good base for this.

For magic damage, they should make the Mythics for Black Mage and Scholar have various amounts of affinity on them. But also, SE should allow someone to merge all the trial staves onto a Dorje, or some similar staff.

Getting a universal anything in this game has always been hard unless it doesn't give a lot of power, partially because inventory is also a resource in this game we have to manage. An item that does more is worth more then other items, undoubtedly, even if it just matches what a handful of items do. Perhaps the base items to do these things should be easier to get then I suggest, but ultimately, there will be some sort of quest to bind or upgrade anything in the manner people want, it would be pretty unreasonable to expect otherwise.

[Alhanelem]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]
You and the 6 people who like your post might not, but you don't speak for every user on this forum any more than I speak for SE. You obviously didn't figure out yet that it was merely my opinion of what I think SE is seeing.

I will post on this forum all I want and you can't do anything about it. No one likes a flamer or a troll any more than they like someone in my position.


[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] I'm not using it as a crutch. I'm saying it in the effort of allowing people to understand me better. I did not and will not use it as an excuse.

You know what? You don't need to double post about how much you hate me and have your 6 friends like both posts. If you really hate me that much, why don't you just use that convinent ignore list feature? Never see a post you don't like again. Something tells me you don't because you'd rather spend your time flaming me, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.

At least the majority of users here are levelheaded enough not to atttack people on a personal level.

[Yugl]

At least the majority of users here are levelheaded enough not to atttack people on a personal level.

And your solution is to attack him and six others on a personal level? Nice work.

[Alhanelem]

And your solution is to attack him and six others on a personal level? Nice work.
Except that's not what I did, because I didn't name him or anyone else. Do you really need to keep picking my words apart?

You might also specify exactly where I made a personal attack that specifically named a certain user, and how I could express that statement differently?

[Yugl]

Except that's not what I did, because I didn't name him or anyone else.


You and the 6 people who like your post might not, but you don't speak for every user on this forum any more than I speak for SE. You obviously didn't figure out yet that it was merely my opinion of what I think SE is seeing.

I will post on this forum all I want and you can't do anything about it. No one likes a flamer or a troll any more than they like someone in my position.

I'm not using it as a crutch. I'm saying it in the effort of allowing people to understand me better. I did not and will not use it as an excuse.

You know what? You don't need to double post about how much you hate me and have your 6 friends like both posts. If you really hate me that much, why don't you just use that convinent ignore list feature? Never see a post you don't like again. Something tells me you don't because you'd rather spend your time flaming me, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.

At least the majority of users here are levelheaded enough not to atttack people on a personal level.

You quoted him. You responded with the word "You" in several instances. You refer to the six people who liked his post in two instances. But I guess since you didn't name him, so that means you weren't talking to him. Btw, this post isn't referring to your post; it's about Rearden's post. You can tell by the way I specifically name him.

[Alhanelem]

1st highlight is not a personal attack, nor is any instance of the word 'you'. I can see how the last sentence can be interpreted that way, but I was merely stating the impression I got from his posts and invited him to show me that it wasn't the impression I should have gotten.

-edit-

This is really getting to the point of absurdity. I'm not going to keep going on with this. If you have some problem with me, you've got an ignore list and you should use it. Failure to utilize it would mean you want to see my posts for whatever reason.

[Yugl]

1st highlight is not a personal attack, nor is any instance of the word 'you'. I can see how the last sentence can be interpreted that way, but I was merely stating the impression I got from his posts and invited him to show me that it wasn't the impression I should have gotten.


You're a dumbass; prove me wrong.

^ That wasn't a personal attack btw. It's just my impression and I invite you to show me that's the impression I shouldn't have gotten.

[Alhanelem]

You're a dumbass; prove me wrong.

^ That wasn't a personal attack btw. It's just my impression and I invite you to show me that's the impression I shouldn't have gotten.
Invitation accepted :) Just look any post of mine in the 10 top most threads in general right now as of the time of this post.

And I'lm just going to allow you to decide for yourself. I'm not going to respond to any more posts in this thread.

[Yugl]

Invitation accepted :) Just look any post of mine in the 10 top most threads in general right now as of the time of this post.

And I'lm just going to allow you to decide for yourself. I'm not going to respond to any more posts in this thread.

Well my thread is number one and most of the posts here lead me to stick with my earlier conclusion. Thanks for accepting the opportunity to be assessed though.

[Alhanelem]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]
Ok, I'll take the troll bait once again. First, I don't have a disease, I have a disability. Reporting your post for that insult. I only mentioned it once in the vain hope of better understanding. Not once did I ever use it as an excuse for anything.
Second, I didn't use it as an excuse.
Third, I don't "want to watch the world burn." I don't find any of the stuff going on here fun at all and I would like it to stop.
Fourth.

Well my thread is number one and most of the posts here lead me to stick with my earlier conclusion. Thanks for accepting the opportunity to be assessed though.I meant any OTHER thread and you know it. Why would I point you to look at this thread while you're already reading it? I'm not a dumbass, and neither are you. You should know that the intention of my statement was to have you look at the other threads where I have made intelligent and/or non-controversial statements to show you that I'm not a "dumbass" nor someone who enjoys this sort of thing.

Now maybe I can resist the urge to continue to take troll bait.

[Rearden]

Ok, I'll take the troll bait once again. First, I don't have a disease, I have a disability. Reporting your post for that insult. I only mentioned it once in the vain hope of better understanding. Not once did I ever use it as an excuse for anything.
Second, I didn't use it as an excuse.
Third, I don't "want to watch the world burn." I don't find any of the stuff going on here fun at all and I would like it to stop.


Troll bait? Is that a personal attack? I am merely stating my ideas and thoughts and drawing my conclusions from what you are saying. If you don't find it fun and want to resist the urge, no one is forcing you to keep posting here - you are making that conscious decision yourself.

As for definition of disease or disorder, that is subjective and more accurately it is a personal preference for verbiage. I'll let the definitions here hi-light what I mean.



Asperger syndrome or Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.


A disability may be physical, cognitive, mental, sensory, emotional, developmental or some combination of these.
Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations.


A disease is an abnormal condition affecting the body of an organism. It is often construed to be a medical condition associated with specific symptoms and signs. It may be caused by external factors, such as infectious disease, or it may be caused by internal dysfunctions, such as autoimmune diseases. In humans, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, and/or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases usually affect people not only physically, but also emotionally, as contracting and living with many diseases can alter one's perspective on life, and their personality.

[Sekundes]

Ignoring the majority of this thread being derailed...

I approve of the OP's topic and think that many of the ideas presented would provide a benefit without being over powered. While I prefer a prismatic staff I could accept a light-based elementals and a dark-based elementals. Mage inventory is already a huge issue and even this isn't going to fix everything. Despite the arguments brought against it I think that considering the work load involved that it is going to be something that has to be earned by doing basically every damn trial and the possibly another to fuse them... That is a ton of work and would force me to do trials I hadn't intended to do in the first place.

Alhanelem, you should make a choice. Do you want to get along with others on this forum or not? You say that people are attacking you but perhaps you've missed why. There is a way you should present an argument or a disagreement and the way you've done so tends to piss people off. I don't particularly care for it either. I'm not sure if the whole devil's advocate thing is just in your nature or if you really just have a hard time saying what you mean but either way... Look at the avalanche of negative responses to what you post and think on it before you continue. These arguments are a two way street and other's are taking your bate as much as you theirs.

I don't want to read through 12 pages of people arguing with you. The personal bickering should take place via PMs or make a new thread for it. I think the majority of us would appreciate an adult conversation.

[Yugl]

I meant any OTHER thread and you know it. Why would I point you to look at this thread while you're already reading it? I'm not a dumbass, and neither are you. You should know that the intention of my statement was to have you look at the other threads where I have made intelligent and/or non-controversial statements to show you that I'm not a "dumbass" nor someone who enjoys this sort of thing.

So you want me to selectively hunt for evidence towards your point and ignore all statements to the contrary?