SE, Please Delete Scarlet Delirium

[Urteil]

This ability is worthless and you obviously are not listening to feedback from any forum in any language on how useless this ability is.

You'd rather talk about increasing stack sizes.

You want to say you listen to the community, you want to act like you care? You state that you want to have a close knit communication line with the community;

Well here's a reminder of the feedback you seem to be so,

BLATANTLY IGNORING:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13779-dev1024-Job-Adjustments-Scarlet-Delirium



So I'm going to shove it in your face. Here is your communication, we are now screaming at you because civil expressions of distaste from all the Dark Knight community have done nothing.

At this level the amount of neglect is bordering in incompetence.

Everyone who has expressed displeasure at how this ability is being implemented please like this post.

Because they aren't going to do the smart thing and revamp it, just have them not give it to us, because its crap.

This way it won't be wasted for something that might actually be useful, or they can't continue to delude themselves that is really worth programming/implementing in its current state.

Please don't add it, we don't want to have to look at it like Tactical Party.

[Frost]

Wow dude, do you ever let up?

Dark Knight isnt' as bad as you think it is. Maybe you should play another job and get some perspective.

Not picking on you, but you seem to make these insulting posts ever four days or so.

[Urteil]

Wow dude, do you ever let up?


No. -------------------

[Frost]

I'll let up when its fixed.

It's not broken... It's just not you want.
There's a massive difference.

[Urteil]

Tactical parry on DRK functions as intended, if one honestly feels that as Dark Knight's we should take another kick in the balls like that lying down.

I'm sorry to inform you that this said person is a moron.

You're telling us to basically be happy with uselessness, which is unreasonable.




I'm very happy Bully got fixed, and that terrible Ninja ability. They were terrible and are now viable.

I'd like SD to be made from being a steaming pile of poo, to something Dark Knight's can be mildly excited for.

[Vortex]

Urteil man, it may be time to level another job, i mean it's clear you love and adore DRK but having DRK as your only job is just going to keep you in constant rage.

[Urteil]

Urteil man, it may be time to level another job, i mean it's clear you love and adore DRK but having DRK as your only job is just going to keep you in constant rage.

So when something sucks you fight it, you don't lay in the street and give up.


Rage is fantastic.


Maybe some other pissed off people will join me, if not I'm perfectly content being on the only one in this thread pissed off.

[Frost]

Dear SE, it's come to my attention some people don't know how to play dark knight and find it "Useless".

I apologize for them.

Please continue to fix the jobs that really need it at the moment, and if you have time, toss us Dark Knights something interesting.

[Vortex]

I fully understand your frusration about DRK but i would die of bordem if i only had one job, all im saying is you should consider something else to be alot less stressed.

[Urteil]

Your assumptions that its stressful to point out the obvious are false.

Its really easy for me to comment and type up short snippets of information as to how the status quo is stupid.


There is very little effort put into this.

Sprezaturra, if you will.

[Alhanelem]

umad? They don't post about every single thing every day. Silence may simply mean they're working on things. The aren't "BLATANTLY IGNORING" you.

I don't see why you'd want to "delete" SD. yeah, its implementation needs some significant work, but it's not like it can't be useful or add a meaningful amount of damage if you can work with it's flawed implementation. Just hope they fix it and make it better instead of "delete" it.

[Darkwizardzin]

umad? They don't post about every single thing every day. Silence may simply mean they're working on things. The aren't "BLATANTLY IGNORING" you.

I don't see why you'd want to "delete" SD. yeah, its implementation needs some significant work, but it's not like it can't be useful or add a meaningful amount of damage if you can work with it's flawed implementation. Just hope they fix it and make it better instead of "delete" it.

I support this 100%... I've done my share of conplaining about the problems with my job (bad mythic ect.) but saying they should just out right remove an ability is kindof butthurt to the point of sillyness.

Don't stop asking for them to fix issues you think should be fixed but at the same time don't go overboard with your rage... that doesn't help.

[Finuve]

considering in its current state SD is detrimental to party play, and the last thing I want is terrible DRKs making it even harder for me to go DRK, id rather see it not exist than be in the game in its current form

[Leonlionheart]

This is a little overboard, though Scarlet Delirium could use some work.

[brayen]

lol not sure why such rage they only have so much manpower behind the game(see old game is old) i understand DRK isnt perfect but if i had to lay out all 20 jobs to fix drk is actually in pretty good conditions compared to others. Raging like this without even knowing what they are actually working on seems silly.

[Rosina]

do you guys even know how to use it? Its what been 2 weeks? Sorry but play with it more ...

[Rearden]

do you guys even know how to use it? Its what been 2 weeks? Sorry but play with it more ...

brb taking two weeks to figure out how to click a macr-ohwait

[Vortex]

do you guys even know how to use it? Its what been 2 weeks? Sorry but play with it more ...

There is not a single post you make that dosn't make me wonder what in the world did you hit your head on as a child to be at this level of...well......i'll let others fill in the blank here.

[Deadvinta]

Wow dude, do you ever let up?

Dark Knight isnt' as bad as you think it is. Maybe you should play another job and get some perspective.

Not picking on you, but you seem to make these insulting posts ever four days or so.

I don't see any part of his post insulting Dark Knight itself or saying he doesn't like the job.

[Miitan]

Considering the last few updates (or lack of them) to Dark Knight, it's quite clear that that SE hates DRK so you may as well do what I've done and just give up on it.

It's easier to just level a job that SE does like.

[Alhanelem]

SE doesn't "love" or "hate" any one job any more than any other. Draw whatever silly conclusions you want from your opinion of this ability, it doesn't mean they favor certain jobs on a personal level.

[Cljader1]

This ability is worthless and you obviously are not listening to feedback from any forum in any language on how useless this ability is.

You'd rather talk about increasing stack sizes.

You want to say you listen to the community, you want to act like you care? You state that you want to have a close knit communication line with the community;

Well here's a reminder of the feedback you seem to be so,

BLATANTLY IGNORING:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13779-dev1024-Job-Adjustments-Scarlet-Delirium



So I'm going to shove it in your face. Here is your communication, we are now screaming at you because civil expressions of distaste from all the Dark Knight community have done nothing.

At this level the amount of neglect is bordering in incompetence.

Everyone who has expressed displeasure at how this ability is being implemented please like this post.

Because they aren't going to do the smart thing and revamp it, just have them not give it to us, because its crap.

This way it won't be wasted for something that might actually be useful, or they can't continue to delude themselves that is really worth programming/implementing in its current state.

Please don't add it, we don't want to have to look at it like Tactical Party.


I support this 100% SE have ignored us a great deal, even the Japanese agree to some extent. I see alot of people in this forum who's main job isnt dark knight offering opinions. However drk is the WEAKEST DD in the game, as scarlet Delirium is useless, and should be deleted promptly. As a Dark Knight a have a Caladbolg, Redemption, and a stage 4 relic scythe and I absolutely love the job, but hate what SE does to it, from the ridiculous recast timers on spells to the crap abilities like tactical parry, arcana crest, scarlet delirium etc. Urteil you showed the passion that many of us drk's have and your and our vioce needs to be heard, SE have only offered us 2 responses in 2 months we desire a little more dialog SE.

[Dirtyfinger]

I find it strange that people are coming to the conclusion that SE hates DRK judging by recent updates considering what they've just done to LR.

If I was a SE rep I wouldn't bother reading the OP's pile of QQ's as it's just an incorrect way (and also place) of stating your opinion on what you're experiencing on a 'Test server'.

[Cljader1]

How we know what they will do, they offered us drks little to no dailog...and they continue to shove useless abilities down our throats.

[Dirtyfinger]

I see alot of people in this forum who's main job isnt dark knight offering opinions

Makes no difference.


However drk is the WEAKEST DD in the game

How have you come to that assumption?


ridiculous recast timers on spells

No need to full time Hasso or Seigan while that lovely updated LR is up, also you should carry a Haste/Fast Cast set for precast.

[Urthdigger]

SE doesn't "love" or "hate" any one job any more than any other.

Except SAM

[Miitan]

SE doesn't "love" or "hate" any one job any more than any other. Draw whatever silly conclusions you want from your opinion of this ability, it doesn't mean they favor certain jobs on a personal level.

Ah, so it's OK to favor certain jobs as long as it's not on a personal level.

Got it.

Would "do not care about Dark Knight" suit your sensibilities?

[Siiri]

Considering the last few updates (or lack of them) to Dark Knight, it's quite clear that that SE hates DRK so you may as well do what I've done and just give up on it.

It's easier to just level a job that SE does like.

SE loves scholar, sam, blue and war to start. They hate drk. Correct. It's a shame for those of us who love drk.

[Vortex]

I support this 100% SE have ignored us a great deal, even the Japanese agree to some extent. I see alot of people in this forum who's main job isnt dark knight offering opinions. However drk is the WEAKEST DD in the game, as scarlet Delirium is useless, and should be deleted promptly. As a Dark Knight a have a Caladbolg, Redemption, and a stage 4 relic scythe and I absolutely love the job, but hate what SE does to it, from the ridiculous recast timers on spells to the crap abilities like tactical parry, arcana crest, scarlet delirium etc. Urteil you showed the passion that many of us drk's have and your and our vioce needs to be heard, SE have only offered us 2 responses in 2 months we desire a little more dialog SE.

DRK is by no means a "weak" job of course it is not sam or war, but it is a strong job in it's own way, just because they don't give a "mega super awsome" update to drk EVERY update does not mean they don't care or is ignoring the job, they DO have like what 15+ jobs to worry about on top of drk.

They can't cater and try to please one specific job for a few people crying that updates to a job isn't what they like. now while i do agree drk needs tweeks to bring it up to par with the more bandwagon jobs, flailing arms willdly shouting for a binky "waa waa i want my job fixed the way i like it" isn't going to get it done any faster, be paitent to see what happens in the future, i enjoy DRK when i play it, and i would LOVE to see it givin more power to fit what it needs, but crying about a ability that is not even OUT YET is just dumb. the point of the test server was to TEST things before they come out. saying "delete this ability because i don't like it even tho it isn't released yet" is just beyond retarded.

[Aver]

do you guys even know how to use it? Its what been 2 weeks? Sorry but play with it more ...

You playing on the test server? No? K then.

[brayen]

lol the drk who claim it is the weakest job must really suck. Unless you live in abyssea drk is actually a very potent job. They can cover strong melee dmg, as well as serve as a stunner. Hell, going by what the game is currently, drk is amazing as it brings a lot of staggers to VW too. Frankly if this JA manages to give any boost to dmg at all ill be happy really. If it turns out worthless then meh, wont be the first time (read footwork, defender, a bunch of merits and spells etc).

The whole casting situations is where i feel drk needs more attention on(give us a method to cast those spells w/o wasting all our damage))

[Malamasala]

SE loves scholar, sam, blue and war to start. They hate drk. Correct. It's a shame for those of us who love drk.

They don't hate DRK. You actually get useful armors with updates. DRK is more like the middle child that isn't treated special in any way. Hated jobs is jobs like PUP and SMN that they insist on giving healing armors or nuking armors, when neither job has healing or nuking spells.

[Urteil]

I want a job ability that isn't telling me to:

Don't stun that Blizzaga 4, let it blow up everyone and you'll be maximizing your performance! Forget stun, stun? Pff.

Because NO SHIT, that is seriously what this JA is maximized by.

If SE wanted me to kill people just turn on world PvP.



PUP is probably the job that took the longest to design and has unique qualities/abilities/gameplay that makes it one of the most potent soloers / utility jobs. All it needs is an upgrade to automaton AI and boom.


I do agree that SMN gets a bum rap, and needs help, help badly.

[Pyrobunny]

how many drk's does it take to put in a lightbulb?
none they sit in the corner and cry

here is another one
a drk walks into a bar and misses

[NeoLionheart]

Ya'll are acting like this is something new. DRK's have been asking for SE to throw them a bone for years now. Urteil has every right to be upset. Sure we have received a couple "decent" new things, but how many of them made drk desirable to a group setting?

[Chriscoffey]

The same people telling dark to be patient about this are the same people who really don't have a clue about what SE has done over the years to the job. They give us one decent boost which is the LR update and if this had been done back after the haste nerf it might have been a decent bonus. At the current standing dark is far behind because of lack of a "good" critical WS that it takes such a huge boost to reach all the gains provided by other melee.

This is exactly how every update as been for dark.

SE: Greetings Dark Knights we are giving you a critical hit weaponskill.
Dark knights: Woo finally
SE: It will be implemented next update.
Dark knights: drool
* Next update comes*
WS mods: 10% chr , ws has chance to critical but 50% of normal critical hit damage, 1 hit, fTP of .2
Dark knights everwhere... /sigh....

That is pretty much the shit that has been happening for most boost to dark knight since that damn haste cap was implemented and all the other jobs jacked up with extremely great abilities/spells/etc. We then get to hear how great our job is and how we JUST got something last update to shut up. Try understanding game mechanics before spitting out nonsense. I have most all the melee leveled up and play them all. I know damn well what i can do against my dark and it doesn't stand a chance.

[Dirtyfinger]

The LR update is a monumental boost regardless of the timing of implementation. Also there's more to FFXI than Abyssea, but besides that even if Guillotine had a critical mod it wouldn't be used in Abyssea anyway.

[Kensagaku]

Alright, I'd like to point out that I'm not a DRK nor have I been on the test server at this point, so take that as you will. I'm trying to make an objective statement from what I've seen over the years playing FFXI alongside DRKs.

First off, cool the rage. I can understand the feeling of your job getting nerfed, but really man, chill. The day you start raging and breaking things over pixels on a screen is the day that you might wanna see a therapist. Not saying you're to that point, but let's talk this out rationally. It's only a game.

Second, jobs have always gone in cycles, as I have mentioned elsewhere. DRKs used to be great because of the content, not because of SE's personal preference. Kclub zergs made them amazing at times, but even in basic melee they were at a high advantage with all of their powerful WS. Honestly, I rarely saw DRKs outdamaged at that time, except by BLMs, RNGs, and the occasional good SAM. I know I certainly was given a run for my money keeping up with my DRG.

The problem is that the content has changed, and with it the list of relevant jobs has too. Pre-Abyssea, I don't remember seeing a MNK being brought along for much unless a person had no other job. BLU? We were SATACA + Cannonball, nothing more. SMN? LolSMN. BLMs were great for endgame but terrible for leveling in parties, as colibri are evil bastards with all that reflect. And look at it the other way; COR became more obsolete in Abyssea because we were already overpowered. SMN? Well... poor SMN's always had it rough. Most jobs without a critical WS got the shaft too in terms of overall damage, unless they were BLM. SCH got undermined on the dual-front because WHM pulled ahead on cure tiers even further, and BLM has much more overall utility for nuking and damaging.

Jobs go in cycles, and right now in Abyssea DRK is on the lower end of the preferential list. Once we get new content at 91-95, we'll see how things improve. Until then, cool it; there's no need to flip out as far as you have.

[Darkwizardzin]

The same people telling dark to be patient about this are the same people who really don't have a clue about what SE has done over the years to the job. They give us one decent boost which is the LR update and if this had been done back after the haste nerf it might have been a decent bonus. At the current standing dark is far behind because of lack of a "good" critical WS that it takes such a huge boost to reach all the gains provided by other melee.

This is exactly how every update as been for dark.

SE: Greetings Dark Knights we are giving you a critical hit weaponskill.
Dark knights: Woo finally
SE: It will be implemented next update.
Dark knights: drool
* Next update comes*
WS mods: 10% chr , ws has chance to critical but 50% of normal critical hit damage, 1 hit, fTP of .2
Dark knights everwhere... /sigh....

That is pretty much the shit that has been happening for most boost to dark knight since that damn haste cap was implemented and all the other jobs jacked up with extremely great abilities/spells/etc. We then get to hear how great our job is and how we JUST got something last update to shut up. Try understanding game mechanics before spitting out nonsense. I have most all the melee leveled up and play them all. I know damn well what i can do against my dark and it doesn't stand a chance.

Again... If you feel like you must conplain about the injustice about your job thats fine..... my problem is when the "conplaining" goes to far to the point of being unconstructive.

I get that your mad dark knights... but asking the skill to be removed? how does that help you??

Your letting your anger spill out to the point where it's unreasonable. By all means keep telling SE you think SD is crap. Keep saying you think your underpowered conpared to other DD jobs. Don't have a defeatist attitude and ask for SE to remove skills.... that does nothing to help you and only is time wasted that you can use to try to tell them you make a better change to SD.

tl dr: Be mad... not stupid ><

[Gokku]

Monk Received Footwork in 2008
from 2008 till the 2010 update when monk got Perfect Counter at 79 , we got nothing. Drks been doing fine an has recived semi regular adjustments. they may not be the JA's you wanted but they are alot better then nothing.

[Elexia]

Dark Knight isnt' as bad as you think it is. Maybe you should play another job and get some perspective.

With the way he is, this is like telling someone to gain common sense on the internet.


Monk Received Footwork in 2008
from 2008 till the 2010 update when monk got Perfect Counter at 79 , we got nothing. Drks been doing fine an has recived semi regular adjustments. they may not be the JA's you wanted but they are alot better then nothing.

DRK has not been doing fine.

"YAY LETS USE TIER III NUKES MORE! IT'S WHAT SE WANTS US TO DO!"

No.

[Chriscoffey]

Monk Received Footwork in 2008
from 2008 till the 2010 update when monk got Perfect Counter at 79 , we got nothing. Drks been doing fine an has recived semi regular adjustments. they may not be the JA's you wanted but they are alot better then nothing.
Yet again the serpent quote brings it's head to the forefront of this forum. I am a little tired of the saying "you got something albeit it not much to your job be happy you got something". I am just going to continue playing Warrior as i know what a beast that job is with these updates. I love dark knight but i have reached the point after years of "accept our view of your job" as the sign it's time to cut it loose. I think anyone who played dark before with the 1st team of developers and then now with the second knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[Gokku]

oh you mean back when drk was seen as gods among men due to distortion skill chains and i would wait 1-2 weeks to get a party invite on monk since they cant do distortion till much later in the game? that time? cuz i didn't bitch out and quit monk then either shut up stop crying and suck it up drgs did it and there was light at the end of the tunnel.

if you wanna go be a bandwagon war then do so it shows how "serious" you were about your drk in the first place.

[Elexia]

oh you mean back when drk was seen as gods among men

Which Final Fantasy XI are you talking about? The never been released one or the one you created during a basement D&D campaign?

The only time DRK was seen as "gods among men" was during zergs and even that is a thing of the past.

[Gokku]

you happen to play xi before white gate existed? there was this sc called distortion and blms had this spell called freeze. now what you would do is get 2 DD's who could distortion and a blm * yes a blm in a melee exp pt i know it sounds odd* and they would MB it and that's how people exp'd for a long time. during this time frame the only jobs DD'd that didn't get treated like step children were jobs that could create distortion.

[Elexia]

I played since JP Beta. Distortion was nice, but not once have DRK ever been the "OMG GET!" job of FFXI outside of zerging. You do realize DRKs were dubbed "whiff knights" for a reason, right? DRKs were the "last resort" if there weren't any Samurai or Dragoons seeking (before SE raped TP return and people went derp about DRG.)

From 10 - 40 DRK was overlooked, in the 50s-60s DRK were the last resort for your party, in the late 60s and 70s, Spinning Slash was the only saving grace they had due to it having steady dmg on even high defense mobs, yet people rarely wanted one for a party if they could help it.

[Selzak]

Honestly, I'd rather not have a useless JA clutter the list of available abilities while I'm playing DRK. I would genuinely prefer that they did not add Scarlet Delirium, no exaggeration.


Absorb-ATR looks really good though. Personally, I don't think DRK needs melee buffs so much as it needs utility buffs and some unique ways to enfeeble enemies. The only thing hurting DRK offensively is the lack of a critical WS.

[Vortex]

you happen to play xi before white gate existed? there was this sc called distortion and blms had this spell called freeze. now what you would do is get 2 DD's who could distortion and a blm * yes a blm in a melee exp pt i know it sounds odd* and they would MB it and that's how people exp'd for a long time. during this time frame the only jobs DD'd that didn't get treated like step children were jobs that could create distortion.

oh man you brought back some bad memories of leveling mnk >_< i HATED that crap, it was near impossible to get a party under level 60..

[Selzak]

oh man you brought back some bad memories of leveling mnk >_< i HATED that crap, it was near impossible to get a party under level 60..
That doesn't have as much to do with Distortion as you think. It was always nearly impossible for any melee job to get a party between 50-60.

[Alaik]

While not as ridiculous as SAMs and WARs saying they need more buffs, this is lol.

DRK is miles behind EVERY other DD job. Yep, every one. RNG, THF, all of them.

Inb4 bs statements about every job but WAR/MNK/SAM not being a "real DD" job with no backing from SE stating so.

[Chriscoffey]

oh you mean back when drk was seen as gods among men due to distortion skill chains and i would wait 1-2 weeks to get a party invite on monk since they cant do distortion till much later in the game? that time? cuz i didn't bitch out and quit monk then either shut up stop crying and suck it up drgs did it and there was light at the end of the tunnel.

if you wanna go be a bandwagon war then do so it shows how "serious" you were about your drk in the first place.
I have been playing warrior since the 2 handed update when raging rush was changed if you have any recollection when that was. I have always been able to do more with my warrior over my dark but in certain situations i could also do more with dark. Now that just about every melee can cap haste in regular LS set ups and the adjustments to them dark has fallen behind very far. I can only do so much on dark compared to a buffed up job like warrior that what is the point in bringing something mediocre when i can bring a job that does 3x as much damage bare minimum. I am far more serious about dark than you are your monk probably because I am close to completing my apocalypse EVEN THOUGH i know its weaker. I bet if they took away ascetic's fury and victory smite the amount of uproar from MNK would overshadow anything dark has complained about.

[Gokku]

ascetic's fury only came back die to RR atma in abyssea. outside if you dont have VS asuran is still king. That being said i dont see how you completing a relic wep when you can farm 1-200 currency a day is a big deal. now if you had done it back when it took years then rushed and did the 1000's of kills trials etc. THEN id see you being a hardcore drk but as youve stated you didnt level war till 2h update and you waited for easy relics to do one. i could have stage 3 hth relic instead i invested in crafting.
P.S. i leveled war before the 2handed update with a Gaxe the whole way, why because having a hauby+1 for my pld at the time seemed like a waste.

[Vortex]

ascetic's fury only came back die to RR atma in abyssea. outside if you dont have VS asuran is still king. That being said i dont see how you completing a relic wep when you can farm 1-200 currency a day is a big deal. now if you had done it back when it took years then rushed and did the 1000's of kills trials etc. THEN id see you being a hardcore drk but as youve stated you didnt level war till 2h update and you waited for easy relics to do one. i could have stage 3 hth relic instead i invested in crafting.
P.S. i leveled war before the 2handed update with a Gaxe the whole way, why because having a hauby+1 for my pld at the time seemed like a waste.

wait, what? asuran has always sucked in, and outside abyssea. pretty much every other high level WS outdamages (howling, dragon kick) it. only thing asuran was good for was stoping spells. outside tornado kick will destroy any other WS outside VS unless asuran can pull out 1.5-2k

[Chriscoffey]

ascetic's fury only came back die to RR atma in abyssea. outside if you dont have VS asuran is still king. That being said i dont see how you completing a relic wep when you can farm 1-200 currency a day is a big deal. now if you had done it back when it took years then rushed and did the 1000's of kills trials etc. THEN id see you being a hardcore drk but as youve stated you didnt level war till 2h update and you waited for easy relics to do one. i could have stage 3 hth relic instead i invested in crafting.
P.S. i leveled war before the 2handed update with a Gaxe the whole way, why because having a hauby+1 for my pld at the time seemed like a waste.
The fact that you can get your precious emp. in a day by itself speaks volumes for how far off relics are from empyreans at the moment. So you believe you are the time god to set in stone what is the proper time for being a hardcore player or what is casual. I am glad you updated my knowledge bank for this said info. I in fact DID have 15 jades till my apocalypse on my other character before this easy mode existed. This was also during the time dark could reach and be at 93.3% haste. A person i thought was a friend and played on my character with me for years turned around and stole it to sell on EGS because of the money. I in turn got the account banned because I wasn't having all my work sold to someone else. I came back and started again on my character now which I'm about to complete apocalypse again. I have far more love for dark than you do that monk.

EDIT: The reason i got it banned was because there was no rollback feature or anything during that time. I had no codes as i had moved since i had bought it and SE wouldn't give my account back or reset my password. I tried a few times and without all the info either i got unlucky with reps for SE or they had some policy in force during that time.

[brayen]

wait, what? asuran has always sucked in, and outside abyssea. pretty much every other high level WS outdamages (howling, dragon kick) it. only thing asuran was good for was stoping spells. outside tornado kick will destroy any other WS outside VS unless asuran can pull out 1.5-2k

Your asuran fist gear needs work then. Unless you are fighting something with high def then i believe howling or Afury will do better.

[Vortex]

Your asuran fist gear needs work then. Unless you are fighting something with high def then i believe howling or Afury will do better.

really? show me some good numbers with asuran, because a WS with a modifer of 10% STR and 10% VIT will never be good. my highest Tornado kick outside was 2.3k with most avaraging between 1.2-.2k depending on the mob.

and fury has to critical for it to do good which is a bit harder outside.

[Gokku]

wait, what? asuran has always sucked in, and outside abyssea. pretty much every other high level WS outdamages (howling, dragon kick) it. only thing asuran was good for was stoping spells. outside tornado kick will destroy any other WS outside VS unless asuran can pull out 1.5-2k

i was avg 14-1800 asurans @ 80, i havent had a reason to use it since but last time i used them tornado kicks dmg was comparable but required footwork to really out do asuran.

@ Chris my posts are my opinion yours are yours. Drks apoc isnt AS good as it used to be but with the Body in the next update some apoc drgs are talking about being able to spam ws's as long as they are getting hit for 200+ and the weapon is better then your empy and not much worse then the great sword. now Verth vs anything else is a no contest. i see 0 reason to waste my gil on golden knuckles for a lack luster WS high delay and capping counter on mobs i wont be tanking anyways * tier 4 voids*.

As far as my love for monks concerned , ive already planned out the gear i deem must have / want / might use for monk and have been stock piling funds so tha i can buy them or spam w/e is necessary to get them asap once the update hits.

ill make a modern day asuran set here inna min and go play with it i think i need to upgrade my str hth to +2 but geodes shot up in price.

[Vortex]

i was avg 14-1800 asurans @ 80, i havent had a reason to use it since but last time i used them tornado kicks dmg was comparable but required footwork to really out do asuran.

@ Chris my posts are my opinion yours are yours. Drks apoc isnt AS good as it used to be but with the Body in the next update some apoc drgs are talking about being able to spam ws's as long as they are getting hit for 200+ and the weapon is better then your empy and not much worse then the great sword. now Verth vs anything else is a no contest. i see 0 reason to waste my gil on golden knuckles for a lack luster WS high delay and capping counter on mobs i wont be tanking anyways * tier 4 voids*.

As far as my love for monks concerned , ive already planned out the gear i deem must have / want / might use for monk and have been stock piling funds so tha i can buy them or spam w/e is necessary to get them asap once the update hits.

ok, i will admit i have not used it since 75, ( i took out the macro basicaly) i'll try it out and see how it does, i highly doubt it will outdamage tornado but i will test it out to see if it got any better.

[brayen]

The fact that it is a crit is what made it strong against high def, howling ..i think has some atk bonus to it, not sure its been a long time.

As for asuran, im not sure what to tell you? 1.5k on most things very constant give or take. Mods mean nothing, people forget atk it seems. If you can cap ur atk<or close to> it never failed. Tornado tends to keep to the lower end like the 1.2k ur mentioning, and suffers much more if you miss a single swing. The higher tornadoes are lucky double atks or footwork. I don't know many monks who went against this trend. Tornado kick was however, good when the whole Oat-3 claws were the in thing with footwork stacking, but that died quickly, think the new MA trait killed it or something, never got on board that train tho so idk.

[Deadvinta]

SE doesn't "love" or "hate" any one job any more than any other. Draw whatever silly conclusions you want from your opinion of this ability, it doesn't mean they favor certain jobs on a personal level.

Correct. The closest to it is that they fear red mage being powerful.

[Aver]

ITT: Empyrean holders love their jobs less than relic holders.

[Armangetto]

I would rather SE FIX Scarlet Delirium than delete it, honestly. It has potential. We are gona get it regardless.

[Alhanelem]

I played since JP Beta. Distortion was nice, but not once have DRK ever been the "OMG GET!" job of FFXI outside of zerging. That's kind of like saying no pie has ever been delicious outside of the filling. It might be true, but since when was it not significant?

[Quetzacoatl]

I think everyone telling Urteil to chill needs to look at the Dark Knight forums a little more often.

The OP, as brash as he is being, isn't the only one calling out for this job ability to be deleted for the sake of leaving nothing to waste. We've all been disappointed with how this JobAbility is being implemented, and Square is clearly telling us to adjust to this. If we've been trying to do just that, how is it that we are still trying to get Square to get our attention about the lackluster implementation of SD? It's almost time for the update, and where has Square been to tell us that they're working on fixing it for a more practical usage? I know Camate and Bayohne and the Japanese/French/German Representatives probably have their hands full, so maybe Square should work on hiring a few more helping hands for each region? Lighten the load a little.

Basically put, Scarlet Delirium is a really great concept, but the way it actually works makes it inefficient and detrimental to party/endgame contribution. And to have Square Enix not touch up on that issue is worrying to us.

Of course this is probably not the first we've seen something like this happen, so while we still have the time to fix this Job Ability...if they won't take our advice, yeah, I would too think it's time for them to scrap the JA completely until they come up with something better and more practical. Because if they're not going to adjust it to accumulate damage instead of taking single damage, then there is no way they would ever make it so the JA would absorb the damage and convert three times the amount of it to attack/magic attack. I mean, that would just be "broken," wouldn't it?

We're not trying to give up on Scarlet Delirium, it's just that Square is leaving themselves with very little options if they continue to tell us to "adjust to this job ability."

[Leonlionheart]

Well, look at restraint. First implemented, worst thing ever. Now? Awesome.

[Darkwizardzin]

Well, look at restraint. First implemented, worst thing ever. Now? Awesome.

Dark knights won't see it this way... they think SE gives better consideration to adjusting other jobs better to begin with and thus SE will never touch SD again after its put in the game.

....not that SE hasn't given them much of a option but to think this way. :p

[Gokku]

didn't last resort recently get a really really really good ass buff?

[Quetzacoatl]

Well, look at restraint. First implemented, worst thing ever. Now? Awesome.

'Cause WAR needs to be DD #1 anyway. >_>

DRK they probably won't give two shits about for Scarlet Delirium, since they probably think taking cumulative damage would make us more dependent on healers, which is an issue DRKs are trying to address. And in typing that, I think I just found why we landed ourselves in this mess of a job ability. I guess we have to be more careful about what we wish for.


didn't last resort recently get a really really really good ass buff?

Yeah, but it doesn't permanently fix the job. It's a huge step in the right direction, but not the end-all-be-all of DRK updates. We're not saying we should make Scarlet Delirium just that. It's currently a piece that doesn't fit into the puzzle right now.

[Leonlionheart]

I really don't think SE is sitting on a throne saying

LOL LOOK AT THE DRKS QQ. I LOVE THE TASTE OF THEIR TEARS

I think they have brains and realize DRK is a popular job, even though it's been shafted for the last... ~10 years. They are just trying to make it better, Absorb-Attri is a good start.

Edit: and SD is a good idea, just not a good implementation.

[Quetzacoatl]

I agree, Absorb-Attri is probably the biggest upside DRK has gotten this time around, but I do still question when they'll implement Dark Celerity. Hopefully by the near end of the update when they announce everything we're all getting.

I just wish they would do something better with Scarlet Delirium already and not keep us on our toes about what progress has been made.

[Rearden]

I don't know what the big deal is, Square Enix added the SEA DAUGHTER atma for a f'ing REASON!

You DRKs just need to put that shit on, engage the mob, and start the river of tears. Hit Scarlet Delerium and BAM! Instant win. Hell I bet the more tears you cry the better it works. Plus you'll be getting TP like a madman because you were smart and used SEA DAUGHTER atma.

[Leonlionheart]

I don't know what the big deal is, Square Enix added the SEA DAUGHTER atma for a f'ing REASON!

You DRKs just need to put that shit on, engage the mob, and start the river of tears. Hit Scarlet Delerium and BAM! Instant win. Hell I bet the more tears you cry the better it works. Plus you'll be getting TP like a madman because you were smart and used SEA DAUGHTER atma.

WHAT THE F*** AM I READING

good lol though

[SpankWustler]

I don't know what the big deal is, Square Enix added the SEA DAUGHTER atma for a f'ing REASON!

You DRKs just need to put that shit on, engage the mob, and start the river of tears. Hit Scarlet Delerium and BAM! Instant win. Hell I bet the more tears you cry the better it works. Plus you'll be getting TP like a madman because you were smart and used SEA DAUGHTER atma.

Like a young Thomas Pynchon, but dorkier and more capable of making sense. This post gives me joy.

[Quetzacoatl]

I don't know what the big deal is, Square Enix added the SEA DAUGHTER atma for a f'ing REASON!

You DRKs just need to put that shit on, engage the mob, and start the river of tears. Hit Scarlet Delerium and BAM! Instant win. Hell I bet the more tears you cry the better it works. Plus you'll be getting TP like a madman because you were smart and used SEA DAUGHTER atma.

Yeah because who cares about slow when you can make Scarlet Delirium to work!?

almost didn't lol before I read other posts, heh

[Zarchery]

Urteil, maybe you should take a juice box, a baggie of Cheerios, and a nice nap, see if you wake up as less cranky.

[Gokku]

if i was to remake my asuran fist set it would be the following
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/230126

possable change out head to G mask *4% atk* idk if Fire fangs+2 would be better to factor in also for a more level playing field. i npc'd my b kote months ago working on getting them back again since xolololololtol drops hats and im not buying a mars ring ill just kill av after the update.

[Dirtyfinger]

Drop Brutal Earring, it does literally nothing.

[Gokku]

anything other than mermans worth changing it to ? vulcans pearl for a little more str or no?

[Dirtyfinger]

Merman's be alright, or anything with higher atk.

[Tassidaru]

This ability is worthless and you obviously are not listening to feedback from any forum in any language on how useless this ability is.

You'd rather talk about increasing stack sizes.

You want to say you listen to the community, you want to act like you care? You state that you want to have a close knit communication line with the community;

Well here's a reminder of the feedback you seem to be so,

BLATANTLY IGNORING:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13779-dev1024-Job-Adjustments-Scarlet-Delirium



So I'm going to shove it in your face. Here is your communication, we are now screaming at you because civil expressions of distaste from all the Dark Knight community have done nothing.

At this level the amount of neglect is bordering in incompetence.

Everyone who has expressed displeasure at how this ability is being implemented please like this post.

Because they aren't going to do the smart thing and revamp it, just have them not give it to us, because its crap.

This way it won't be wasted for something that might actually be useful, or they can't continue to delude themselves that is really worth programming/implementing in its current state.

Please don't add it, we don't want to have to look at it like Tactical Party.

SE will do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, regardless of the player opinions, wake up and smell the coffee. And for those that don't remember the 'old' days watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FZCDmdlK0

[Quetzacoatl]

SE will do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, regardless of the player opinions, wake up and smell the coffee.

Except they do take player opinions into account. How is it that Bully went from cold to hot?

[Gokku]

jp bitch's and moaned

[Elexia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FZCDmdlK0

This. So much.

[Gokku]

At least when this is all said and done.

And SE shoves their meaty manhood down all our throats.

Not sit idly by with a placid look of confusion, naivety and perplexity.
.
this reminds me of a .gif porn clip of a girl having that exact thing happen to her shes looking around lost with this huge meat in her mouth makes me laugh every time.

[Cljader1]

I agree SE is going to make us eat this new ability, they dont care what drk's say, I can already see them in there offices


SE Employee 1: Hey hey, did you see the drk thread in general?
SE Employee 2: lol yeah I saw it
SE Employee 1: looks like we might've hit a nerve
SE Employee 2: Why you say that blus, schs, wars, and mnks tell us drk's fine.
SE Employee 1: lol but they really seem upset though
SE Employee 2: loldrk
SE Employee 1: lol yeah your right!
SE Employee 1&2: lol lol lol!

[Zoner]

I honestly think there is a Dev that has a serious grudge against dark knight, maybe they spent weeks or months designing Absolute Virtue trying to make it the pinnacle of game design, thinking the only way us players could beat it is by following their ingenious strategy, only to find out a bunch of dark knights with kraken clubs zerged it down.

Since then they vowed to nerf us into obscurity by making mobs resist soul eater, resist dark based magic, nerf absorb-tp, mock us with tactical parry, arcane crest, occult acumen, and most recently Scarlet Delirium.

I know SE doesn't really hate us, but sure does feel like it.

-edit- Not to mention when we ask for stuff like a second stun they tell us no, yet BLU has how many stuns, and getting even more stuns in the update..

[Neonii]

You playing on the test server? No? K then.

Playing on the test server is intended to be used to put down other folks?

[Greatguardian]

ITT: Emo players Emo'ing about Emo Knight and its Emo JA because they can't Emo cut themselves deep enough to make it Emo enough added damage.

Leave it to Dark Knights to sit around and b'awww all day about how much their job sucks. Life is so unfair, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

[Elexia]

ITT: Emo players Emo'ing about Emo Knight and its Emo JA because they can't Emo cut themselves deep enough to make it Emo enough added damage.

Leave it to Dark Knights to sit around and b'awww all day about how much their job sucks. Life is so unfair, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

Said the monk that probably cried along with the rest of the monk playerbase about not getting JSE when other jobs were handed a second set.

[Urteil]

ITT: Emo players Emo'ing about Emo Knight and its Emo JA because they can't Emo cut themselves deep enough to make it Emo enough added damage.

Leave it to Dark Knights to sit around and b'awww all day about how much their job sucks. Life is so unfair, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

You're so witty.

[Quetzacoatl]

Said the monk that probably cried along with the rest of the monk playerbase about not getting JSE when other jobs were handed a second set.

Oh god I lol'd hard, because it's probably true.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SE will do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, regardless of the player opinions, wake up and smell the coffee. And for those that don't remember the 'old' days watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FZCDmdlK0

Am I missing something? Where'd the DRK always misses come from? Never understood that, van't say I've ever seen it.

[Dirtyfinger]

It was a combination of no accuracy food at the time & extremely high delay weapons - so you noticed it more, it had nothing to do with the job mechanics itself.

[Zoner]

Am I missing something? Where'd the DRK always misses come from? Never understood that, van't say I've ever seen it.

I'm sure every old-school dark knight had the embarrassment of guillotine completely missing at least once in their career.

[Ash]

I like how the non drk players say the job is fine when we got so many nerfs in the recent history of the game(Hi to you haste cap, soul eater resistance and abs-tp nerf) Sure we the last resort duration update, but who can look me with a straight face and tell me this isn t how last resort should have been 10years ago?

Drk require a lot of support to actually be decent( aka some healing to maximize souleater) and in this day and age of lowmanning stuff drk is actually less desired than in the past( not even gonna talk about the lack of a crit ws cuz of lolabyssea) and now with the way scarlet delirium works in sure your party will be quite happy when you don t stun that ga spell or that nasty aoe tp move from a t4 mob in VW just so you can boost your dmg for one minute...

[Chriscoffey]

As much as i want to write up a detailed summary of dark vs other melee i shall refrain from it. I have figured out no matter what evidence supports how bad dark is off from other melee 2 pages later someone who has absolutely no game understanding tries to support the " dark gets more than X job " argument totally ignoring that most things are useless to dark or miniscule at best. If SE ever fixes dark i will be impressed because after years and years of this nonsense I am with my dark brothers/sisters in just deletion of everything dark related that is useless which is about 3/4 of dark arsenal.

[Greatguardian]

Said the monk that probably cried along with the rest of the monk playerbase about not getting JSE when other jobs were handed a second set.

I am so jealous of Plastron set. Obviously I'm just as bad as all of you, because you're all perfectly normal, right?

Nah. Cry more, Emo Knights. Not everyone feels the compulsive need to e-riot and b'awwwwwww all day long whenever they're not God Tier. Heck, Emo Knights b'awwwwwwwwww even when they're God Tier, because it's b'awwwwww'ing expensive/hard to become God Tier.

No matter what they do to Emo Knight, the Emo Playerbase is going to b'awwwwwww about it. So I'll ask again, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

[Ash]

I am so jealous of Plastron set. Obviously I'm just as bad as all of you, because you're all perfectly normal, right?

Nah. Cry more, Emo Knights. Not everyone feels the compulsive need to e-riot and b'awwwwwww all day long whenever they're not God Tier. Heck, Emo Knights b'awwwwwwwwww even when they're God Tier, because it's b'awwwwww'ing expensive/hard to become God Tier.

No matter what they do to Emo Knight, the Emo Playerbase is going to b'awwwwwww about it. So I'll ask again, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

Blah blah blah you pretty much just reposted your previous reply to the thread...we get it all drk are emo and your soo cool and funny for pointing it out. kudos to you, you just won the internet

[Chriscoffey]

We are all just fine stating actual fact. It seems to me and the rest of the darks that play "other" melee it's apparent they are lacking by leaps and bounds. We rather be vocal about it so SE realizes we are tired of this behavior than live under a rock to not say anything.
You on the other hand call us out about this by stating we are all in our basements razor blade cutting ourselves because WAAAAAHABAMALACE hasn't came to fix our job. I want the job fixed and most darks are vocal about that. Nothing will be fixed if people like you who have overpowered updates by SE comparatively speaking to always say "HEY NOTHING IS WRONG WITH DARK". How about jumping off the bandwagon jobs SE adores and try dark out vs your mnk/war/sam/etc.

[Benihana]

I am so jealous of Plastron set. Obviously I'm just as bad as all of you, because you're all perfectly normal, right?

Nah. Cry more, Emo Knights. Not everyone feels the compulsive need to e-riot and b'awwwwwww all day long whenever they're not God Tier. Heck, Emo Knights b'awwwwwwwwww even when they're God Tier, because it's b'awwwwww'ing expensive/hard to become God Tier.

No matter what they do to Emo Knight, the Emo Playerbase is going to b'awwwwwww about it. So I'll ask again, bro. Want to vent about it over some My Chemical Romance?

you're possibly one of the most annoying posters on the forums. I've been more of a observer and just thought i'd throw that out there.

seriously, go away or post more constructively. You're such a troll.

[Elexia]

Blah blah blah you pretty much just reposted your previous reply to the thread...we get it all drk are emo and your soo cool and funny for pointing it out. kudos to you, you just won the internet

I think I have to give this kid props for thinking it's still cool to call someone emo.

[Gokku]

ive have one major question , outside of victory smite * monks would still be tanking with asuran or striking pummel if they had given it to us.*

what game breaking update has monk received. The answer isnt either of the 2 JA's ill tell you that much. last hint it deals directly with whats the fundamental biases of monk. All jobs got the same boost i just had a bigger effect on monk then others. take a guess because it seems like alot of the drk base has no clue about how little monk has really changed.

[Dirtyfinger]

I love how many of you claim just because you don't have X job level'd you therefore have no idea about it. And to answer the question above -
I don't have MNK level'd and I've never said it's had any game breaking job abilities implemented, there's just a numerous amount of things added into Abyssea which makes MNK king, outside Abyssea all they have is a better WS if you have access to VS.

[Return1]

The reason MNK doesn't get much new is because MNK has ALWAYS been overpowered. They did nothing to MNK between the game coming out and it ascending to the heavens as a god of DDing in ToAU.

Players became smarter and the slow ones caught on to TP burning T-VT over SC/MB IT++.

Stupid players getting smarter was the biggest change to MNK.

Also, MNK (and BLU to an extent) continues to grow disproportionately stronger with each level cap raise due to the hth formula (Blue Magic Skill for BLUs obviously).

[Ash]

ive have one major question , outside of victory smite * monks would still be tanking with asuran or striking pummel if they had given it to us.*

what game breaking update has monk received. The answer isnt either of the 2 JA's ill tell you that much. last hint it deals directly with whats the fundamental biases of monk. All jobs got the same boost i just had a bigger effect on monk then others. take a guess because it seems like alot of the drk base has no clue about how little monk has really changed.

Why is this thread derailing into a "what a mnk got/need" thread?

[Gokku]

my point is drks are screaming about how unfair things are and ow much it needs fixing and pointing to other jobs with 0 understanding of what the difference really is. as far as drks go there DPS is fine, what you gys really need is reworked WS's either mods need to be not so pants on head retarded for guillotine and ftp upped to 1.0 or 1.25 or cross reaper needs to be a crit WS. Those 2 small changes would have such a huge effect on drk. Drks should take this ability give SE a chance to enhance it through gear or updates while demanding fixes to what they already have.


same for Insurgency if it had a 1.0 1.5 2.0 mod and chance to crit instead drks would cream there pants. then you would have some drks mad about how they need nysle isle floor 100 * of course this would all hit 1 week after the update that changes nysle from 75 content to 99 content making it hard again*

[Gokku]

The reason MNK doesn't get much new is because MNK has ALWAYS been overpowered. They did nothing to MNK between the game coming out and it ascending to the heavens as a god of DDing in ToAU.

Players became smarter and the slow ones caught on to TP burning T-VT over SC/MB IT++.

Stupid players getting smarter was the biggest change to MNK.

Also, MNK (and BLU to an extent) continues to grow disproportionately stronger with each level cap raise due to the hth formula (Blue Magic Skill for BLUs obviously).

my god someone does understand!

[Ash]

my god someone does understand!

Then why have you been comparing what mnk got need to drk since you started posting in this thread?

[Return1]

DRK isn't in desperate need of anything but Crit WSes. I'm telling you, if you made all physical WSes capable of critical attacks and left Crit varies with TP with their TP = bigger crit rate boost, DRK would be back in demand, Melee RDMs and SAMs would be happier, RNG would catch up a bit, and Qeusted WSes in general won't suck so damn much.

That said. SD sucks ass. It's like a dickslap to the face more than an improvement at this point. The change they made to it since its implementation to the test server also makes the devs look like total retards, even moreso than suggesting it sucks because people don't know how to use it instead of it just being awful currently.

Right now it's a situational tanking ability and that's all.

[Elexia]

Don't mention WS, now SE will create an ability that allow WS to Crit based on how much damage we've dealt with elemental magic.

Make it happen SE. You know you want to.

-.-

[Gokku]

Then why have you been comparing what mnk got need to drk since you started posting in this thread?

to show that 1 shitty ja * monk got footowrk* isnt the end of the world that upping old school stuff is what dark really needs.
there have been plenty of things SE has done that people over reacted to *thf got its TH and tripple VIP passes handed to rng and dnc,* but its not the end of the world. if the JA is shit just dont use it.

[Ash]

to show that 1 shitty ja * monk got footowrk* isnt the end of the world that upping old school stuff is what dark really needs.
there have been plenty of things SE has done that people over reacted to *thf got its TH and tripple VIP passes handed to rng and dnc,* but its not the end of the world. if the JA is shit just dont use it.

And this is why this thread is about drk asking s-e not to implement this crappy ability and work on other areas where we are lacking.

[Chriscoffey]

my point is drks are screaming about how unfair things are and ow much it needs fixing and pointing to other jobs with 0 understanding of what the difference really is. as far as drks go there DPS is fine, what you gys really need is reworked WS's either mods need to be not so pants on head retarded for guillotine and ftp upped to 1.0 or 1.25 or cross reaper needs to be a crit WS. Those 2 small changes would have such a huge effect on drk. Drks should take this ability give SE a chance to enhance it through gear or updates while demanding fixes to what they already have.


same for Insurgency if it had a 1.0 1.5 2.0 mod and chance to crit instead drks would cream there pants. then you would have some drks mad about how they need nysle isle floor 100 * of course this would all hit 1 week after the update that changes nysle from 75 content to 99 content making it hard again*
So we need to have this crammed down our throats to be implemented where we totally ignore party dynamics about saving our party/alliance for a 1 shot boost at the proper moment and timing to do "slightly" more damage. That makes no damn sense at all and as many other said it is stupid.

[Gokku]

theres a term people use for that its called "situational" the ja is shitty in MOST situations but im sure with a little effort youll find times when that aga wont be the end of days and i can just stun the next one. Its really no less suicidal then the old drks that used to pop all there JAs souleater 300% ws a mob and ask why they died.

[Rearden]

2003-September2011 - Drain II+Dread Spikes(post patches)+Souleater+Last Resort+WS+Stun+Meditate+WS=death

September2011 - Our JA's hurt party/alliance play

I'm not saying DRK isn't a shitty DD, because it is. I would argue it definitely has its uses, because it does. However, this argument is presented in a fairly asinine manner.

[Sevvy]

I have been playing this game since the date of NA release and I will always say that Dark Knight has always been the "Dark Horse" of ffxi. Yes, back in the day they had their uses to Kraken Club Souleater Dynamis Lord or any other "difficult" HNM but the fact of the matter is their usefulness has always been limited. Instead of raging there are completely valid ways of suggesting things to the developers. Sure they may get ignored, however, you have done your part and you can be justified in so.

[Zeroe]

Can't agree with this thread more. Seriously SE, why is it so hard to give us any descent updates? It took years to fix last resort, YEARS! I love my job, I don't think its right that I need to switch to "NIN" to be able to actually be a damage dealer. you know what most darks play in battle? The stunner. That's all we get to do is stun. Drain sucks, most mobs resist it to a high degree, our DOT is worthless compared to a nin. Were supposed to sacrifice so much to gain so little. Why won't you give us updates we need, instead of just throwing us crap. Tactical Parry? Really?

[Dirtyfinger]

Giving DRK a crit WS isn't going to fix anything! seriously! All you lot think/talk about is Abyssea this, Abyssea that, and guess what? Giving DRK a crit WS isn't going to suddenly make it a desirable job for Abyssea, trust me.

PUP has an awesome crit WS in Strining Pummel and how many PUP's do you see in Abyssea?! Now surely everyone here knows the reason why there aren't any PUP's in your groups.

[Alhanelem]

PUP has an awesomer WS called Victory Smite, but MNK gets that too.

[Dirtyfinger]

What point are you making?

[Alhanelem]

I'm replying to a statement you made, that's the point.

e.g. the "good crit ws" you named is not the best one they have.

[Dirtyfinger]

Then you obviously aren't getting the main point than I'm making. Maybe I'll write it clearer for you to understand.

Your PUP has VS
A DRK has an overpowered crit WS that does over 9000 damage.

You and the DRK go to Abyssea and proc red & blue then come here and post the results.

[Rearden]

Aside from aftermath from Vere and looking at WS only, Pummel is way better in Abyssea

[Dirtyfinger]

All I was doing is making an example of jobs that already have powerful critical hit weapon skills that aren't used in Abyssea purely because they lack the tools to cover many red/blue proc - like WAR or NIN and MNK for blue have. PUP was just an example, much like DRG is too.

And for the main topic at hand, DRK is an extremely powerful job outside Abyssea, it's just that the people with tears down their faces complaining that it's not simply have no idea what they're doing with the job. Sure it would do with some tweaks but seriously, the people saying SE never do anything with DRK QQ cannot comprehend how powerful the RECENT LR update was.

[Alhanelem]

Aside from aftermath from Vere and looking at WS only, Pummel is way better in Abyssea
Um, no, it's not. Clearly, you haven't used both of them.

Smite mops the floor with pummel in abyssea. It's not even close. Even with the WWoE weapon smite is better.


All I was doing is making an example of jobs that already have powerful critical hit weapon skills that aren't used in Abyssea purely because they lack the tools to cover many red/blue procDue to the stigma associated with PUP (even though the job has improved greatly in the last several updates), even if they could proc 10 different weapons and proc yellow easily, they'd still not get picked just because people still act all "LOLPUP."

[Rearden]

Question, what does more damage, Asuran Fists or Raging Fists

[Alhanelem]

Question, what is the relevance of that statement?

I know what you're thinking. "Pummel is better cuz it has more hits!"

Yes, it has more hits. it also has lower mods and a much lower FTP. in the end, you can ignore all the maths and stuff and just use both WS and see that VS performs better.

edit: this is way off track, so I'm not going to go any further on that.

[Rearden]

Your answer is relevant to my point, if you would care to indulge me.

[Dirtyfinger]

even if they could proc 10 different weapons and proc yellow easily, they'd still not get picked just because people still act all "LOLPUP."

You're making an assumption.

[Cljader1]

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it

[Leonlionheart]

Hey guys Power Slash is a crit ws

[Dirtyfinger]

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it

Well you and all the other cry babies take your shit to the actual test server sub forums.

[Elexia]

Hey guys Power Slash is a crit ws

Which is not a WS on our main weapon. Power aside.

[Leonlionheart]

Which is not a WS on our main weapon. Power aside.

"our main weapon"

herp because you have A+ in one and A-(highest GS skill in the game) makes scythe your main weapon derp

[Rearden]

idk why people used rampage all those years, or why ninjas even use katanas

[Return1]

Crit WSes aren't only good in Abyssea you tool.

All of DRK's non-Catastrophe WSes are retarded weak in comparison to most WSs in the game. Crits are massive boosts to WS numbers even without RR/SS atmas, especially on higher level mobs. Why? Because a crit adds a 1.0 to cRatio which can be 50-100% more damage per hit on high enough mobs, and still a decent boost on trash.

And yes, while GS WSes have powerful potential, it's not at 100 tp, and/or the delay makes the WSes come much, much slower.

Crit WSes are generally superior to noncrit WSes. Need Proof? Raging Rush is a lot better than King's Justice, despite the fact KJ has superior mods. Jin vs Ku. Drakes vs Penta. Jishnu's vs Sidewinder.

Stringing pummel is weaker than VS due to low fTP first hit, weaker WSC mods, more swings, and less power from DA/TA.

[Rearden]

ITT: GS swings slower than scythe, Torcleaver is weak at 100TP

[Elexia]

idk why people used rampage all those years, or why ninjas even use katanas

Who knows, it will forever remain a mystery.

[Return1]

ITT: GS swings slower than scythe, Torcleaver is weak at 100TP

No one said GS swings slower than scythe. The WSes come slower because the delay means you require more hits to 100, but I guess that eluded you in your rush to look like a smug retard.

A 5 hit scythe build WSes ~25% faster than a 7 hit Torcleaver build even though it has higher delay, unless you want to TP/WS in some godawful gear/food that hurts Caladbold/Torcleaver.


Torcleaver is the lone exception to the the GS Weaponskills sucking at 100%, outside of SS situationally on mobs with absolutely ridiculous level correction and defense that your WSes without the atk bonus would be floored.

Torcleaver is also the worst off of the WSes when it comes to WS speed thanks to Caladbolg's low delay. Not gonna bother running numbers on the WoE weapon as it's already out of the question.

[Dirtyfinger]

No one ever stated crit ws are inferior you tool.

[Rearden]

14.64s to 100TP with Apoc

14.28s to 100TP with Cala

Not factoring DA or Zanshin, but that favors Cala anyway.

[Return1]

A 5 hit with Catastrophe means you need 4 hits to make 100tp after the WS.

Catastrophe total delay to 100tp: 2052 delay.

A 7 hit with Torcleaver on Caladbolg means you need 6 hits to make 100tp after WS:

Torcleaver total delay to 100tp: 2580 delay

That's ~25.7% slower for the GS. DA also favors Catastrophe because the delay between rounds is larger, meaning it's a larger boost in terms of speed when multihits proc.

Keep on failing.

[Rearden]

I would love to see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

I also have no idea where you're coming up with your numbers for total delay unless you're assuming 15% total haste or 5% and Hasso but then again I'd still love to just see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

[Soidisant]

I use

TP
Apocalypse
Rose Strap
---
White Tathlum
Bale Burgeonet +2
Ganesha's Mala
Brutal Earring
Bale Earring
Armadaberk (STP +6, DA +3)
Bale Gauntlets +2
Hoard Ring
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle
Goading Belt
Calmecac Trousers
Ace's Leggings

STP gear on WS - Brutal Earring, Rose Strap, Armadaberk, Rajas Ring, Ace's Leggings.


You're basically sacrifing feet (which isn't a huge tradeoff) and augmented P. Body. Worth it in the long run.

[Return1]

I would love to see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

I also have no idea where you're coming up with your numbers for total delay unless you're assuming 15% total haste or 5% and Hasso but then again I'd still love to just see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

It only takes 44 STP to make a 5 hit with Apoc. You can go about that in many, many ways. I'll give one example:

15 /SAM
5 Food
4 Rose strap
1 Brutal
5 Rajas
4 Hoard
5 Goading
5 Ace's

44 total. Not ideal because you're limited in WS swaps in some slots, but there are literally dozens of ways to 5 hit with Apoc.


If you don't get how I came up with the delay I can't tell if serious or trolling...

[Soidisant]

Set-up I posted doesn't require you eat STP food for the record so you can stick with RCB's. I did toy with Arrabbiata for a while but it worked out worse.

Basically if you TP in 47 STP, you need to WS in 33 STP to 5 hit. SAM sub, Rose, Armadaberk, Brutal, Rajas is 31. So you can either use something like Ace's Leggings, White Tathlum or Hoard to WS in or you can use Atilla's when TP'ing and WS in whatever.

[Alhanelem]

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it
I don't need you to tell me what's a derail and what isn't. that's why I said it was off track and i wasn't going to continue. That being said it's a public forum and people can post where they want, so you can't tell people to "get out."


...Anyway, what's with all the listing of TP gear. I was pretty sure that gear is really not part of the problem with DRK. It's one of two things or a combination of both in my view:

1) Scythe WS cannot compete as well in the current crits-are-everything metagame, and unusual WS mods on some WS do not fit with the stats DRKs care about most.
2)spells and abilities that do not fully support the concept of making sacrifices to deal maximum damage (as DRK isn't regarded as capable of dealing the most damage right now), or may have at one time but have been since nerfed to hell (e.g. the signature ability, souleater, being completely useless in any meaningful fight)

[SNK]

It sadly is true that DRK is pretty much in the crapper at this time even with the new JA which with only a 1 minute duration seems week as garbage.

I had hoped for something better but not this...

[Alhanelem]

Still, "deleting" it doesn't accomplish anything. Does the OP think that they could reclaim all the time they spent on it and immediately slap on something else in it's place if they did? Because no, they couldn't.

[Chriscoffey]

Dark knight is like being the figuratively speaking "black sheep" of the FFXI family. We are here and SE recognizes us but it's as if we are thrown bread crumbs while everyone else eats steak and complains how we should be thankful about the bread.

[Rezeak]

I'd rather SE make the job ability useful than delete it

My issue with SD is SE is showing there lack of knowledge in the game in general in there words....


In many cases, dangerous special abilities and magic that are used by the opponent can be halted by Stun, but there are instances where Stun does not work or cannot be cast due to recast timers. There are also instances where players will have to take the damage from some attacks in order to stop more powerful attacks instead.

I'd like to point out stun can be casted outside of most AoEs in the game which makes the use SE intended for null/void (unless SD had a DMG migration)

Either way unless they wanna change so that it can fit into normal HNM or party strats it should be deleted.

And here's the reason it 2 fold

1st is PS2 Limitation i'd rather that space used for something useful (even if it's on another job)

2nd SE keep adding useless stuff to DRK then buffing them with no real effect (see elemental spell/Occult acumen)

As far as DRK goes i'm happy with the job it may lack somewhat in abyssea but i've just subbed mnk and become a v.reliable tank there instead, outside we're really strong.

Also with the update in general. Absorb - Buff is a great addition to DRK considering the LR addition.

In summary
I'm tired of the addtions that mean nothing to DRK

If i had a choice i'd remove SD, Elemental spells(not the Dark magic),Tactical parry and Occult Acumen from DRK so SE could actually focus on adjusting the useful aspects of the job rather making a messy hybird job.

Btw i feel this is dumb how people were so aggressive proposing the idea of and the retort.

Outside abyssea i know DRK is the top DD in alot of cases.

Greatsword w/ torclever is our best combo atm.

As for the comments on how Torclever suck ....
4.5 ftp mod at 100% isn't weak in fact it's the best ftp mod for a melee weapon at 100%
It has a sucky stat mod?? ... at the start yes but please look up Jingang gear/Twlight gear/9 Vit neck(or 4VIT 2% Quad attack) which has made this mod decent now.
It sucks cause it doesn't have an attack bonus.... you know what has an attack bonus DRK lol we can get the highest attack in the game to back up our WS unlike say SAM that get hurt by this alot with Fudo. (which SE gave that dumb response of use gekko then /facepalm)
The Delay sucks... making 6 hit not worth it ... no it means u need stuff like carabonara, adaman, Regain earring for it to be easily worth it ^^

As for the comments of Scythe sucks...

5 hit OAT + Guillotine spam says HI!!!!
At 80% haste u get 100% tp in 3.5-7sec (avg is around 4-4.5 secs) (btw any job that can spam WS for decent DMG in Dyna is <3 for staggering)

Either way from the limited endgame content outside of abyssea i don't really have much trouble competing against other DDs infact in cases where my LR pushs me 15% haste over other DDs then DRK is a really hard job to compete with if played right.

As for people saying souleater is useless .... nope infact since the update 6% hp lost for 12% DMG is really manageable for mages these days (most can be offset with a Regen IV) and in cases when mp isn't a issue it's awesome to use ^^.

[Darriken]

They said they were going to increase the time and not leave it at one minute. People who are saying delete SD are stupid. I welcome this Job ability, considering I'm actually a good DRK who always out DD's every other job outside of abyssea. All those people saying DRK is miles behind other jobs are abyssea-ignorant and either need to state inside abyssea only or they just don't play with good DRKs. or maybe they just play with Urteil. Speaking of, why do you even care Urteil, All you do is go drk/sch and shout for ballista anyway, why do you play this game. Actually why do I play this game, it sucks.

[Kagato]

Oh good grief. Urt is at it again. Viva La Dark Knight!

This ability does need work. However, while Urt is far more direct and loud about it, every point he makes is true. We do not see much of a response in the respective Job forums, but they do seem to pay attention to this general discussion forum. Can we blame them for possibly overlooking the official discussion about this on the DRK forum?

Still, I think it's clear that the way this ability is now, it has no real significance on DRKs and chances are quite high that it will be ignored with much of the reported posts claiming there's hardly any noticeable difference in damage dealt with the skill active.

However, we need to remember that we are merely beta testing this ability and it's current state does not have to be set in stone. That is why many Dark Knight players like Urteil and Myself are hoping for some more favorable alterations.

I think an excellent idea would be if we were presented with multiple options to discuss rather than being given something and hoping for the best. That way the development team will better understand what it is we feel that we need.

And that's the key word. "Need." Do we NEED this ability? In it's current state, no. Developers need to discuss with us more to find out what it is we NEED first. After that, THEN we can focus on "wants."

This ability is not a "need" for Dark Knights, which is why no one is truly pleased with it and perhaps wish that it will be removed or buffed in some way.

[Alhanelem]

It just needs to be fixed up so that using it, and taking the damage has the expected result of the significant damage buff (and it needs to last longer).

It can be made more functional. It doesn't need to be 'deleted."

[Nynja]

Urteil man, it may be time to level another job, i mean it's clear you love and adore DRK but having DRK as your only job is just going to keep you in constant rage.

I thought this was a joke untill I did some research:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil
He really has DRK only at 90...WOW

Level another job and stop emoing.

[Urteil]

Oh good grief. Urt is at it again. Viva La Dark Knight!

This ability does need work. However, while Urt is far more direct and loud about it, every point he makes is true. We do not see much of a response in the respective Job forums, but they do seem to pay attention to this general discussion forum. Can we blame them for possibly overlooking the official discussion about this on the DRK forum?

Still, I think it's clear that the way this ability is now, it has no real significance on DRKs and chances are quite high that it will be ignored with much of the reported posts claiming there's hardly any noticeable difference in damage dealt with the skill active.

However, we need to remember that we are merely beta testing this ability and it's current state does not have to be set in stone. That is why many Dark Knight players like Urteil and Myself are hoping for some more favorable alterations.

I think an excellent idea would be if we were presented with multiple options to discuss rather than being given something and hoping for the best. That way the development team will better understand what it is we feel that we need.

And that's the key word. "Need." Do we NEED this ability? In it's current state, no. Developers need to discuss with us more to find out what it is we NEED first. After that, THEN we can focus on "wants."

This ability is not a "need" for Dark Knights, which is why no one is truly pleased with it and perhaps wish that it will be removed or buffed in some way.

Nice way to try to separate yourself from the "radical nature" of my discontent.

But then basically hop on board with everything I am saying.

[StingRay104]

"our main weapon"

herp because you have A+ in one and A-(highest GS skill in the game) makes scythe your main weapon derp

OMG Leonlionheart said something smart.


As for the rest of the people in this thread guess what. Scarlet Delirium is a terrible idea, thats it, end of discussion, it just flat out fails.

These forums are designed for us the player base to actually tell SE what we think, and the votes are in, and Scarlet Delirium is an incredibly dumb and ineffective ability that offers very little boost in its extremely limited usage role and for a very short time. All in all its much better to either stun the said move or not be there when it goes off instead of even considering the use of this terrible ability.

I can argee with both sides on the issue of its deletion, yes it should be deleted instead of being implemented as is, and yes it should be fixed so that we DRKs can actually get some use out of it.

As for all you none DRKs who keep saying our damage is ok, stop posting in DRK related threads, seriously your just making yourselves look stupid. We DRKs are trying to get some fixes that our job desperately needs. If you say well our job hasn't got much either in the last few updates, guess what? You can use the forums to suggest stuff to the devs or debate the usefulness of your own abilities.

Finally, I think its really funny seeing wars comment in here, after all the jack of all trades melee jobs is king of dd and has been since level 75, not to mention it has recieved 2 ja's that would have been better in the hands of DRK (Retaliation and Restraint) and on the latter one it used to have a negative effect of no more crits, til SE realized they made wars deal less king of dd's with it on then they removed that. Anyways this thread has gotten way off topic I saw like 4-5 pages of nothing but mnk chat, seriously way off topic.

[SpankWustler]

I'll second this. Please add a second tier of Tactical Parry to Dark Knight instead!

[Yugl]

I played since JP Beta. Distortion was nice, but not once have DRK ever been the "OMG GET!" job of FFXI outside of zerging. You do realize DRKs were dubbed "whiff knights" for a reason, right? DRKs were the "last resort" if there weren't any Samurai or Dragoons seeking (before SE raped TP return and people went derp about DRG.)

From 10 - 40 DRK was overlooked, in the 50s-60s DRK were the last resort for your party, in the late 60s and 70s, Spinning Slash was the only saving grace they had due to it having steady dmg on even high defense mobs, yet people rarely wanted one for a party if they could help it.

A few corrections:
1. Whiff knight was the player base being stupid and it applied to a lot of 2H melees, but DRK took the blunt of all that for reasons that will follow. At the time, people were concerned with skillchains and a major issue back then was accuracy because people would be ridiculous and fight IT++ mobs instead of chaining VT mobs. Consequently, it was noticeable when someone missed because they would be slow to initiate the skillchain. The reason DRK developed this stigma is because their weapon was slower than all the other competitors (Scythe and G Sword being some of the slowest weapons in the game at the time since WARs used axe instead of G axe). However, there was no inherent accuracy deficit for DRK except for Guillotine (Later removed), which was irrelevant since great sword was the primary weapon during end game and people did not realize that this single hit WS received an accuracy and attack bonus (Not to mention people SATAed all their WS).

In short, issues with DRK at this time were player conceived, though their reasoning was fair (Even if accuracy is the same %, haste values will undermine or exaggerate this value; hence, accuracy will mean less for skillchain purposes if you hit at the rate of hundred fists). That said, you were better positioned than MNKs and DRG at the time. Even SAM was less valued during sky-prime era. WAR wasn't considered all that great either since they usually used 300% TP for Steel Cyclone. To say that DRK was unwanted is quite misleading when compared to other melees with inferior SATA WS (Which was the primary source of damage then).

2. DRKs also made a come back during the pre-Abyssea era. They were able to tank Omega and several other HNMs (Fafnir, for example). For some NMs, they surpassed Samurai's tanking capabilities, but for others, SAM was the safer option. In comparison to other melees, DRK excelled beyond many of them.

[Leonlionheart]

Maybe DRK/DRG will have a place with zerging with this JA

Wait for "GONNA ALMOST KILL ALL OF YOU AOE STYLE" tp move by a mob, pop scarlet delirium, pop high jump, rape shit.

Except /DRG has almost NOTHING else to offer but lol -30% enmity every 2.5 minutes and, unfortunately, Super Jump is level 50.

So the rest of us DRKs, yeah won't use this ability unless deliberately trying to suck at ffxi

Edit: as if subbing something other than SAM isn't already deliberately trying to suck

[Return1]

Few things to address in this thread.

1) No one said Torcleaver was a shit WS, we're saying the GS is a shit sword because the delay means the WSs come slower due to needing more hits to 100tp.

2) Apocalypse is the best Damage option in the game for DRK right now, and the next magian boost will make it comparable to other job's EMPs if the boost is as significant as before.

3) DRK accuracy problems weren't real, it was just players were stupid in the past when it came to exp mobs and tp/ws gear, especially on DRK because it attracted idiots because it looked cool. DRK was not better off than MNK or SAM though.

MNK wasn't liked at first because of Distortion, stupid reason but true, and then it got to open Distortion in the 60s. They could also close light, the most popular SC 65+. MNK was valued on old HNMs because of Chi Blast rotations. The game slowly turned towards TP burn and people realized MNK was extremely, if not the most, powerful.

SAM could make Distortion as opener or closer with its starting WS, and it's starting WS was powerful. SAM was more popular than DRK on HNMs for SATA lines because they could Meditate and SATA, making them especially good for kited fights. SAM could also easily make Darkness or Light. SAM was never really disliked. TP burning didn't really hurt sam at all, what with the massive TP building ability and all.

DRK actually suffered from TP burns, barring SE zerg fights. DRK had always been the slowest at tp gain in that era. There was never one real reason to invite DRK outside of SE zergs because they were so slow and pretty useless. DRK WSes sucked, they had no JA to boost tp gain, LR was complete garbage and until recently was mostly garbage, and SE would mean less mp efficiency for healing the party. The DB + 3minute LR combo has now put DRK on decent footing with other DDs outside abyssea until you get to superbuffed situations.

4) The idea behind SD is sound, but the execution sucks. We don't need 3 minutes to get hit once and then 1 minute of boosted damage, thet's fucking stupid. If the effect can't be based off of cumulative damage over the course of a minute, make it record damage for 1 minute, then take the highest damage over that period, and give us a boost for 3 minutes. A 1 minute damage boost is a failure in ability design, especially with the current system. Also SD is a good tanking tool as is if they'd give it a longer duration. There are times when you can't stun/Stop TP moves: Stun Resistance, TP move charge speed, repeated attempts, etc. That's a situation where this TP move is awesome.

Need examples of when SD's effect would be awesome if it lasted 3 minutes of damage boost?

Throat Stab from tonberry nms, Pile Pitch, Homing Missile, Citadel Buster, almost anytime lolkirin is looking at you, Gravic Horn, Impalement, etc. There are tons of moves that are easily predictable but almost impossible to avoid, where it's a good idea to pop SD for a damage boost.

5) For the love of god make all physical WSes capable of Critical hits ffs.

[Leonlionheart]

@ Return1

At the moment, Caladbolg90 beats Apocalypse90 in overall DPS. Apoc just gets to drain some HP.

Caladbolg (delay 430): 7 hits to 100, 10.01
Apocalypse (delay 513) 5 hits to 100, 8.5 seconds before WS delay

ODD proc on Cala: 30% (100% TP)
ODD proc on Apoc: ~10%

Average Torcleaver: 2500
Average Catastrophe: ~1500

Pretty easy to figure out the rest. Caladbolg wins DPS wise, even though Apoc is WSing ~15% faster. DA and TA skew the TP phase into Caladbolg's favor, as Cala has a much smaller rate of over TP w/ DA and TA compared to a 5hit build, and you're dealing more damage simply because Torcleaver is awesome then you add on 20% more ODD hits. Apoc obviously wins where accuracy is needed, and obviously wins in overall use (Drain w/ stupid fast WS's allows for a nearly invincible player, not to mention aftermath is a flash potency blind)

[Return1]

@ Return1

At the moment, Caladbolg90 beats Apocalypse90 in overall DPS. Apoc just gets to drain some HP.

Caladbolg (delay 430): 7 hits to 100, 10.01
Apocalypse (delay 513) 5 hits to 100, 8.5 seconds before WS delay

ODD proc on Cala: 30% (100% TP)
ODD proc on Apoc: ~10%

Average Torcleaver: 2500
Average Catastrophe: ~1500

Pretty easy to figure out the rest. Caladbolg wins DPS wise, even though Apoc is WSing ~15% faster. DA and TA skew the TP phase into Caladbolg's favor, as Cala has a much smaller rate of over TP w/ DA and TA compared to a 5hit build, and you're dealing more damage simply because Torcleaver is awesome then you add on 20% more ODD hits. Apoc obviously wins where accuracy is needed, and obviously wins in overall use (Drain w/ stupid fast WS's allows for a nearly invincible player, not to mention aftermath is a flash potency blind)

Sorry to burst your bubble but you got a few things wrong.

You're counting the 7 hit and 5 hits from a 0tp standing point, but for the most part you only need 6 hits for the 7 hit and 4 for the 5 hit because you're getting to 100tp after WS, so it's 4 swings vs 6 swings, so Apocalypse WSes ~25% faster.

If you're only managing 1500 on Catastrophe it's time to rethink your gear. You're averages are way off. If we figured the 1.25 damage multiplier as an fTP boost, which is weaker than the straight 1.25 multiplier, Torcleaver is only ahead by ~34%, much less than your awful ~66% guess. On top of that, you need to consider Apoc has superior WSC mods, 20 base damage, and 3 fSTR on Caladbolg/Torcleaver. In the end, Apoc leads in WS Damage over time.

The ~20% ODD damage is somewhat offset by the ACC/ATK/STR/etc advantage that comes with Apocalypse/Catastrophe, and the Self SC ability of Apocalypse also serves to push it ahead on anything that can survive that long.

The DA/TA overspill doesn't skew the results as much as you think it does.

[Cljader1]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you got a few things wrong.

You're counting the 7 hit and 5 hits from a 0tp standing point, but for the most part you only need 6 hits for the 7 hit and 4 for the 5 hit because you're getting to 100tp after WS, so it's 4 swings vs 6 swings, so Apocalypse WSes ~25% faster.

If you're only managing 1500 on Catastrophe it's time to rethink your gear. You're averages are way off. If we figured the 1.25 damage multiplier as an fTP boost, which is weaker than the straight 1.25 multiplier, Torcleaver is only ahead by ~34%, much less than your awful ~66% guess. On top of that, you need to consider Apoc has superior WSC mods, 20 base damage, and 3 fSTR on Caladbolg/Torcleaver. In the end, Apoc leads in WS Damage over time.

The ~20% ODD damage is somewhat offset by the ACC/ATK/STR/etc advantage that comes with Apocalypse/Catastrophe, and the Self SC ability of Apocalypse also serves to push it ahead on anything that can survive that long.

The DA/TA overspill doesn't skew the results as much as you think it does.

This is yet another Detial

[Soidisant]

On paper at least 90 Calad beats 90 Apoc. That should change at 95 if Cata gets any sort of damage boost. Apoc is the better all around weapon imo though due to increased versatility/survivability.

More on topic. I don't want SD to be deleted. I just want the damage taking part of it to be tweaked. An overall duration increase would be nice but I'd settle just for a better recording mechanism for taking damage atm. Duration/potency can be improved at a later date if its still underwhelming possibly with gear and/or a new merit system.

[Dirtyfinger]

You can't delete something that's not even in the game yet. There's a dedicated sub forum for ideas on how to improve things that are in the test server. The OP's original post is just pure non productive nonsense, and 95% of the replies followed the same path.

If I was a SE representative I wouldn't bother reading any of it for players opinions on how it could be improved, as there's basically nothing to make any real positive suggestions (There may be a few, I'm sorry if I haven't seen through all the tripe).

Edit: This isn't directed at anyone in particular.. well maybe the OP :rolleyes:

[Cljader1]

You can't delete something that's not even in the game yet. There's a dedicated sub forum for ideas on how to improve things that are in the test server. The OP's original post is just pure non productive nonsense, and 95% of the replies followed the same path.

If I was a SE representative I wouldn't bother reading any of it for players opinions on how it could be improved, as there's basically nothing to make any real positive suggestions (There may be a few, I'm sorry if I haven't seen through all the tripe).

Edit: This isn't directed at anyone in particular.. well maybe the OP :rolleyes:

Why are you so angry at drk's, when we are expressing our displeasure about the crappiest shitty JA I have EVER seen implemented in this game "Scarlet Delirium." A ability that requires you to nearly kill yourself with a single mob attack so you can have a 60 sec damage boost. While your damn near dead, SE aspects us to go to town on the mob, why the hell would you swing your caladbolg at the mob while your hp is in the red? with increased damage at that? that something your alliance may kick you for

[Kristal]

I'm been reading this thread and the other one, and I can't understand why DRKs are railing against this so much.

1. It's a 3 minute recast ability that's up for 3 minutes (not 1 min). So it's up all the time if you bother to reapply it, although it's better to wait to use it just before a big aoe.
2. Whenever damage is taken, it grants a bonus to attack and magic attack based on HP lost by that attack.
3. Damage bonus lasts until buff expires/reapplies (so up to 3 minutes) or the next damage taken.

Now, I don't know the damage formula, but let's assume half of HP% lost is added to attack since [CR]Bayohne said it was much higher then 20%.. So if you lose 50% HP by an aoe attack, you get a 25% bonus to attack and damage. Get hit with a HP=1 attack while at 100% HP (Tarsal Slam by Resheph for instance) you get 50% bonus. For up to 3 minutes, as long as you don't get hit by another (weaker) aoe attack.

Seriously, it's a pretty decent JA. Devs actually thought this one through. Unlike Cooldown...

[StingRay104]

I'm been reading this thread and the other one, and I can't understand why DRKs are railing against this so much.

1. It's a 3 minute recast ability that's up for 3 minutes (not 1 min). So it's up all the time if you bother to reapply it, although it's better to wait to use it just before a big aoe.
2. Whenever damage is taken, it grants a bonus to attack and magic attack based on HP lost by that attack.
3. Damage bonus lasts until buff expires/reapplies (so up to 3 minutes) or the next damage taken.

Now, I don't know the damage formula, but let's assume half of HP% lost is added to attack since [CR]Bayohne said it was much higher then 20%.. So if you lose 50% HP by an aoe attack, you get a 25% bonus to attack and damage. Get hit with a HP=1 attack while at 100% HP (Tarsal Slam by Resheph for instance) you get 50% bonus. For up to 3 minutes, as long as you don't get hit by another (weaker) aoe attack.

Seriously, it's a pretty decent JA. Devs actually thought this one through. Unlike Cooldown...

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Sorry to ruin your day but the increase of 3 mins was only added to the absorb phase, of which it then changes from a def icon to an attack icon and this one only lasts for 1 min. Also the damage to hp conversion is based on the first hit to land on the DRK after the ability is activated, be it a nice 1500 damage aoe or a 1 damage mistake (which the mistake is gonna acount for 90% of the actual damage we will probably get considering even if we DRKs don't stun the big moves some one else will) and thus we would be sitting there with a .25% increase in damage seeing as we didn't even lose 1% hp (going off your example numbers real numbers of course would be different). This ability isn't nice in the least bit and expect many of the other posters on here to crucify you for your ignorant post.

[Return1]

People think SD works in ways it doesn't that's why they're hating on the complainers. If they had any idea how it worked, or how absolutely retarded the 3 minute absorb phase was changed, they'd probably stfu and agree that it needs a lot of real work.

[Dirtyfinger]

Why are you so angry at drk's, when we are expressing our displeasure about the crappiest shitty JA I have EVER seen implemented in this game "Scarlet Delirium." A ability that requires you to nearly kill yourself with a single mob attack so you can have a 60 sec damage boost. While your damn near dead, SE aspects us to go to town on the mob, why the hell would you swing your caladbolg at the mob while your hp is in the red? with increased damage at that? that something your alliance may kick you for


It's you, and the other cry baby DRK's management of how you dislike this job ability that's making me reply. If you were to have opened your eyes and read what I wrote then you would have listened to what I said, I'll bold it for you.

If you don't like how this new job ability is managed then why don't you post something constructive about how you feel it would be better treated, instead of saying the same stuff the previous crier said 'SE HATE DRK, THEY NEVER GIVE US ANYTHING, JUST DELETE IT'

And replace it with what?

That is the question I'm asking you.

[Taint2]

On paper at least 90 Calad beats 90 Apoc. That should change at 95 if Cata gets any sort of damage boost. Apoc is the better all around weapon imo though due to increased versatility/survivability.

More on topic. I don't want SD to be deleted. I just want the damage taking part of it to be tweaked. An overall duration increase would be nice but I'd settle just for a better recording mechanism for taking damage atm. Duration/potency can be improved at a later date if its still underwhelming possibly with gear and/or a new merit system.


Apoc > Cala not because of the weapons themselves but the sacrafises that must to be made to cap haste on DRK.

SD is a crap shoot JA, is the 2 second JA delay going to be worth it in the long run, probably not. Will it be nice for some Epeen SSs probably.

[Rafien]

Wow dude, do you ever let up?

Dark Knight isnt' as bad as you think it is. Maybe you should play another job and get some perspective.

Not picking on you, but you seem to make these insulting posts ever four days or so.

Coming from the THF who can tank any mob in the game and one of the 3 strongest characters in the game and who can out damage any DRK.

[Dirtyfinger]

DRK is one of the strongest DD's in the game.

[Rafien]

DRK is one of the strongest DD's in the game.

Really.. Let me transfer my character to Odin and we'll meet up.. You get on DRK and I'll get on NIN, WAR, SAM, PUP, THF, MNK, SMN, BLM. I win, you pay the transfer fees to switch to Odin and back to Bahamet.

We'll do 1 hour in Aby, Arrapago Reef, Zeruhn Mines, and Outer Horutoto Ruins.

[Dirtyfinger]

Yea let's fight some skeletons on DRK, but only if you come on THF with daggers.

[Rafien]

Yea let's fight some skeletons on DRK, but only if you come on THF with daggers.

Fully spec'd. There is a range of everything, undead at the reef, Aby NM's, Mines we can have fun with Worms and Quadav's, and the ruins we can fight gobs.

What, so DRK are a strong DD, but if they have to fight undead they should not be? Why? What other job has something they can't fight?

[Gokku]

monk back just to disprove your point. lets him go drk and you go monk vs slimes... yea...

[Dirtyfinger]

Fully spec'd. There is a range of everything, undead at the reef, Aby NM's, Mines we can have fun with Worms and Quadav's, and the ruins we can fight gobs.

What, so DRK are a strong DD, but if they have to fight undead they should not be? Why? What other job has something they can't fight?


1. Why would I parse against critical hit WS jobs inside Abyssea, read my sig below.

2. DRK's spells are ineffective against undead.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Rafien

If that's how you roll then I fully understand why you find DRK to be lacking. Why the hell are you using a Crisis Scythe!? And I'm not even going to mention the rest of that perle gear (which by your DRK's standard you'd be better off using the whole set).

I bet you don't even have a Swift Belt.

[Rearden]

Holy shit slayers earring. Gotta get me one of those

[NeoLionheart]

Good lord...

[Leonlionheart]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you got a few things wrong.

You're counting the 7 hit and 5 hits from a 0tp standing point, but for the most part you only need 6 hits for the 7 hit and 4 for the 5 hit because you're getting to 100tp after WS, so it's 4 swings vs 6 swings, so Apocalypse WSes ~25% faster.

If you're only managing 1500 on Catastrophe it's time to rethink your gear. You're averages are way off. If we figured the 1.25 damage multiplier as an fTP boost, which is weaker than the straight 1.25 multiplier, Torcleaver is only ahead by ~34%, much less than your awful ~66% guess. On top of that, you need to consider Apoc has superior WSC mods, 20 base damage, and 3 fSTR on Caladbolg/Torcleaver. In the end, Apoc leads in WS Damage over time.

The ~20% ODD damage is somewhat offset by the ACC/ATK/STR/etc advantage that comes with Apocalypse/Catastrophe, and the Self SC ability of Apocalypse also serves to push it ahead on anything that can survive that long.

The DA/TA overspill doesn't skew the results as much as you think it does.

Including WS, therefore including ws delay
Cala: 10.58
Apoc: 8.8

Derp Apoc loses out moreso in that situation because ws delay is 2 seconds.

Looks like I was wrong about Catastrophe Vs. Torcleaver though.

Edit: not saying it loses to Cala to TP to 100, but rather it's a less beneficial situation

[Cljader1]

It's you, and the other cry baby DRK's management of how you dislike this job ability that's making me reply. If you were to have opened your eyes and read what I wrote then you would have listened to what I said, I'll bold it for you.

If you don't like how this new job ability is managed then why don't you post something constructive about how you feel it would be better treated, instead of saying the same stuff the previous crier said 'SE HATE DRK, THEY NEVER GIVE US ANYTHING, JUST DELETE IT'

And replace it with what?

That is the question I'm asking you.


You must be smoking dope or something, the first post in the thread addressed the constructive criticism issue. We have offer tons of constructive criticism in the DARK KNIGHT FORUM, SE deosnt listen so we post it here where they can really see our displeasure there 100's of productive responses on how to improve this ability in the DARK KNIGHT FORUM, learn to read. I hate when people tell someone to read when they dont read themselves its the epitome of Hypocrisy.

[Taint2]

Including WS, therefore including ws delay
Cala: 10.58
Apoc: 8.8

Derp Apoc loses out moreso in that situation because ws delay is 2 seconds.

Looks like I was wrong about Catastrophe Vs. Torcleaver though.

Edit: not saying it loses to Cala to TP to 100, but rather it's a less beneficial situation


The second you aren't capped on ACC, Apoc pulls way ahead. (happens way more then anyone likes to admit) A typical Apoc build has 72 acc (with lots of room to add more) over a Cala TP build. You can also 6hit your Apoc and stack a great deal of DA/TA and use a sword strap. Add that to the Drain effect, and the fact that Cata can't be blinked. (goes through shadows) With the upcoming Damage increase fSTR will be much harder to cap which will again favor Apoc with the ability to suffle gear around and still keep haste capped.

[Leonlionheart]

I agree Apoc is a better weapon, it's just not the most raw power

[Urteil]

It's you, and the other cry baby DRK's management of how you dislike this job ability that's making me reply. If you were to have opened your eyes and read what I wrote then you would have listened to what I said, I'll bold it for you.

If you don't like how this new job ability is managed then why don't you post something constructive about how you feel it would be better treated, instead of saying the same stuff the previous crier said 'SE HATE DRK, THEY NEVER GIVE US ANYTHING, JUST DELETE IT'

And replace it with what?

That is the question I'm asking you.

Nothing, looking at absolute shit in my JT and JA window irritates me.

[Gokku]

yo ill trade you all 5 tiers of attack bonus for our 5 tiers of HP bonus.

PS drk get 20 JT's atm. and 6 JA's

Monk 22 JT 8 JA

War 17 JT 8 JA

*pretty close for all jobs eh*

[Return1]

Quality is all that matters guy.

Arcane Crest and Arcane Circle VS Retalliation and Berserk. Yeah, I'd take WAR's JAs.

[Elexia]

Quality is all that matters guy.

Arcane Crest and Arcane Circle VS Retalliation and Berserk. Yeah, I'd take WAR's JAs.

What, don't you spend all day beating on your eternal rivals, the arcanites, as SE intended us to do, clearly? D:

[Chriscoffey]

Quality is all that matters guy.

Arcane Crest and Arcane Circle VS Retalliation and Berserk. Yeah, I'd take WAR's JAs.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Thrown up ideas that we have actually decent abilities. We say something about them being garbage and some other job comes in saying how we need to shut up and emo less.

[Urteil]

What did silence get us:

Oh, hum, let me see here . . .

Absorb-Attri - Cool!


And . . . .

Absorb-TP ninja-nerfs.
Half-ass job traits (Occult Acumen)

Tactical Parry, Arcane Crest and an update to Last Resort, a Category II Merit that was simply merited because of how worthless the other trash is, which should have happened years ago.



Oh and now Scarlet Delirium.

So don't be surprised if the camel's back just snapped.

[Urteil]

yo ill trade you all 5 tiers of attack bonus for our 5 tiers of HP bonus.

PS drk get 20 JT's atm. and 6 JA's

Monk 22 JT 8 JA

War 17 JT 8 JA

*pretty close for all jobs eh*

I'd give up Scarlet Delirium for HP, I'd give it up for 20 more native mp so I can nearly cast another Drain.

[Kristal]

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Sorry to ruin your day but the increase of 3 mins was only added to the absorb phase, of which it then changes from a def icon to an attack icon and this one only lasts for 1 min. Also the damage to hp conversion is based on the first hit to land on the DRK after the ability is activated, be it a nice 1500 damage aoe or a 1 damage mistake (which the mistake is gonna acount for 90% of the actual damage we will probably get considering even if we DRKs don't stun the big moves some one else will) and thus we would be sitting there with a .25% increase in damage seeing as we didn't even lose 1% hp (going off your example numbers real numbers of course would be different). This ability isn't nice in the least bit and expect many of the other posters on here to crucify you for your ignorant post.

Well, it's nice someone actually explained WHY they think the ability is bad. Even though I still don't really agree with your view on it, because it actually seems better then I portrayed in most regards. I thought it would be similar to Afflatus Misery, but instead it actually ignores any following damage, so a big aoe followed by a tiny aoe will not hurt damage output.

But no matter how you look at it, it's an ability that increases your melee, magic and weaponskill damage for 60 seconds. By how much depends on the circumstances. It can be piddly, it can be huge. There's plenty of nasty stuff out there that will deal tons of damage despite stuns, and it's obvious SE intended the ability to be used in just those situations.

I wouldn't rank it among the best of the new job abilities, but it's far from being the worst.

[Quetzacoatl]

Except situational is less than practical, which Scarlet Delirium's execution is not, in both its mechanics and its function. As I said before, one step closer to death, via huge-damage AoE, is one step closer to making Dark Knight the worst DD ever: a dead one.

Adding a cumulative damage absorption to its absorption phase and boosting the conversion of damage dealt into Attack/Magic Attack would greatly expand on its usage, whether SE likes to read it or not. I mean, why not? It's not like Dark Knight would be exploiting anything to make the ability's usage relevant. There's no escaping it; it really does need to be fixed.

[StingRay104]

Well, it's nice someone actually explained WHY they think the ability is bad. Even though I still don't really agree with your view on it, because it actually seems better then I portrayed in most regards. I thought it would be similar to Afflatus Misery, but instead it actually ignores any following damage, so a big aoe followed by a tiny aoe will not hurt damage output.

But no matter how you look at it, it's an ability that increases your melee, magic and weaponskill damage for 60 seconds. By how much depends on the circumstances. It can be piddly, it can be huge. There's plenty of nasty stuff out there that will deal tons of damage despite stuns, and it's obvious SE intended the ability to be used in just those situations.

I wouldn't rank it among the best of the new job abilities, but it's far from being the worst.

Considering its usage falls in under 1% (as I previously stated just because I don't stun the move doesn't mean someone else won't) I'm still gonna say it really does fall under the category as the worst ability in the game. I know the crest/circle abilities are just as limiting but the effects are far greater with them in their limited circumstance, especially circles, I remember popping warding circle during meritpo's fighting imps and getting intimidation stuns to help stop the constant amnesia. There is a decent way to rework Scarlet Delirium into a usable JA and that is simply take a page outta SCHs book and give us the absorb phase for 2hrs and a cap on absorb percentage and once we reactivate it we get our 1 min boost. This would make far greater sense seeing as we can have our utility and not have to make such huge sacrifices for subpar damage. As is unless the damage taken to damage dealt ratio is on a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio IE for every 1% hp damage taken we get 2-3% damage dealt with hard cap this ability is just never gonna be cast unless some DRK wants to epeen.

I honestly thought the ability was gonna be a hybrid of the magic damage ability they mention in first manifesto, I thought it would be increases damage taken by 50% and increases damage dealt by 25% and it would be a 3-5 min duration on a 5 min recast timer. This would be far more practical than anything SE has suggested for DRK in the last 6 years. Oh well at least we got absorb attri which will be useful at least 50% of the time with potential great effects. Maybe we'll get lucky and SE will finally unnerf absorb spells (all of them) and stop giving everything huge darkness resistance.

[Quetzacoatl]

I honestly thought the ability was gonna be a hybrid of the magic damage ability they mention in first manifesto, I thought it would be increases damage taken by 50% and increases damage dealt by 25% and it would be a 3-5 min duration on a 5 min recast timer. This would be far more practical than anything SE has suggested for DRK in the last 6 years. Oh well at least we got absorb attri which will be useful at least 50% of the time with potential great effects. Maybe we'll get lucky and SE will finally unnerf absorb spells (all of them) and stop giving everything huge darkness resistance.

This. So much.

[Muras]

I've been just a little bit speechless at how SE has handled this. I'm both amazed and surprised that they haven't given us a response at all. I check the JP side all the time, and they keep giving responses to jobs like RNG and PUP. Do they think we just don't know what we're talking about? Do they think they're such amazing game developers that they can't make a mistake? Why did they create a test server if they're not going to listen to our opinions? Is it all just a PR stunt in the end?

Community reps, are you really reading these posts and passing it onto the dev team? I can understand that the dev team itself may not be giving any responses, but can't you guys at least post and say they're "aware" of how upset we are and just give assurance that our feedback hasn't just been ignored? Just a little acknowledgement will go a long way you know.

[mattkoko]

ok those of you that say drk is useless and the weakest job in the game, you obviously do not know how to play the job at all. level your dark magic and learn how to use absorb tp. my very first main is drk. instead of making up excuses about how much you suck as a drk, why not work on the damn job and get better at it. even in abyssea, with the right atmas on, my dmg output is just fine. drk isnt a job like war and sam where all you have to do is click 2 macros to do uber dmg. it requires strategy. SD is situational, but far from useless. and to you morons that say drk is the weakest job in the game, 700-900 dmg a hit is far from weak. learn to play your damn job and stop bitching about it. because you saying drk is weak is telling me that one, you do not understand the job, two, you suck at the job. or maybe its both

[Cljader1]

Scarlet Delirium is terrible bottom line, your not too bright if u cant see that...if your doing viodwatch and ls leader tell all meleers to stay back and the drk dives in to catch that aoe just to get his SD rockin...what you think happens everyone is pissed at you. The damn thing is only one hit to activate...terrible. The spells and JA's dont equal up too alot of other jobs, sure we can be effective using drk and drk is very strong with apoc, but the job shouldnt require a relic to be great. furthermore we have the longest spell recast timers in the game by far...SE needs to fix that and address our 2hr. Sch getting alot of attention like a new born baby...its our time now SE needs to show us some love and address our signature spells line along with other things

[Alhanelem]

Hang on. I'm not clear on two things:

When and how did absorbs get nerfed? DRK was my most recent job to 95(within the last few months) and I don't know the ins and outs yet.

I'm not clear on how SD works. Are you saying you get one status for 3 minutes, but only the first damage you take during those 3 minutes counts? What's the point in it lasting 3 minutes then? I thought the damage bonus was going to be / supposed to be based on all the damage you took during that time.

If it's just the first hit that determines the damage bonus, why do we have to sit and wait for 3 minutes before we get the benefit? That doesn't make any sense. Am I not understanding something correctly?

[Leonlionheart]

You get hit, it turns into a straight damage dealt bonus.

I had DRK sitting at 90 for a while, decided to take it to 95 to do some "tests" (loosely)

I couldn't honestly tell the difference after taking a 1k Stone V from Megamaw Mikey while using this ability.

[Zoner]

Hang on. I'm not clear on two things:

When and how did absorbs get nerfed? DRK was my most recent job to 95(within the last few months) and I don't know the ins and outs yet.

I'm not clear on how SD works. Are you saying you get one status for 3 minutes, but only the first damage you take during those 3 minutes counts? What's the point in it lasting 3 minutes then? I thought the damage bonus was going to be / supposed to be based on all the damage you took during that time.

If it's just the first hit that determines the damage bonus, why do we have to sit and wait for 3 minutes before we get the benefit? That doesn't make any sense. Am I not understanding something correctly?

You have 3 minutes to take single hit. After taking that single hit you get a attack boost based on the damage taken from that single hit, this "boost" only last 1 minute from the moment you take damage. It's very situational and mediocre job ability that was half-assed thought out and poorly implemented.

[Alhanelem]

okay, so you have 3 minutes to get hit, but you get the buff immediately upon taking a hit.

Even if it didn't have the chance to get ruined by getting hit for very little damage, why is it so needlessly complicated? The previously mentioned idea of simply increasing damage taken to get a damage bonus makes a lot more sense to me...

[Muras]

When and how did absorbs get nerfed? DRK was my most recent job to 95(within the last few months) and I don't know the ins and outs yet.

Well, apparently Absorb-TP has taken a hit in some form back when Heroes of Abyssea came out, although I personally haven't noticed a thing. Granted, I had taken a 6 month break back then so maybe that's why. But I still manage to absorb 30-60 TP regularly on mobs so I dunno. It would be nice to know what the apparent nerf is.

But there was another nerf to the Absorb line of spells a good 5 years ago that made no sense what-so-ever. Basically, when you cast an absorb today, the duration of the absorb has a max of 1 minute and 30 seconds. This duration can vary quite a bit though, and can be extremely short (30 seconds or less). When the "Down" effect on the mob wears off, you lose the "Boost" effect as well. But it wasn't always like this.

Before this random nerf, the "Boost" effect would last 1:30, no matter what. Even if the "Down" effect wore off on the mob. Obviously the absorbs were a bit more reliable and useful when they worked like this. To this day I don't know why they changed it, because absorbs back then were draining a max of 17-18. And they have that decay effect. They were already pretty useless and SE went and made them even more useless.

As far as Scarlet Delirium is concerned... My opinion on it is still the same as always. I don't use it not simply because it's an extremely situational ability, oh no. I don't use it because I never go to events as DRK in the first place, because DRK overall is situationally useful. There's just no point when a ton of other jobs are just as useful in the damage dealing department. All DRK truly has going for it is damage, and that's nothing unique. That's why I'd like to see Absorbs completely reworked, and DRK given some absorbs that don't suck (Absorb-PHYS (Gives -% Physical Damage Taken to mob and +% Physical Damage Taken to DRK), Absorb-ATK, Absorb-DEF, Absorb-M.DEF) so that DRK can assist the group in a more indirect way when more physical damage isn't necessary.

And believe me, DRK is still my favorite job still. I'd love to go on it to events. But I can always be more useful on SCH and BLU. Funny enough, as a SCH I don't even feel all these adjustments are even necessary. Who on earth is having a hard time being a main healer on it? It's not on the same level as WHM, which is fine, nothing wrong with 2nd place, but it sure wipes the floor with RDM in healing. It's not a very far 2nd from 1st. And BLU just makes a better DRK than DRK. All they need is TP Drainkiss and they'll master DRK without ever being one. But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I love SCH and BLU too, but I just feel SE's priorities are a little screwed up.

Anyways, who knows. Seems they're done looking at DRK and Scarlet Delirium was our fix. Somehow.

[Soranika]

I would assume that SE thought DRK like eating the fatal, alliance wiping abilities that every one else attempts to stun. From what I'm reading, the ability is added up there with WHM's Sacrosanctity and DNC's Ternary Flourish.

Even as a situational ability, it's still useless and grealy flawed. Don't even have to be a DRK to understand that.

[Krashport]

So when something sucks you fight it, you don't lay in the street and give up.


Rage is fantastic.


Maybe some other pissed off people will join me, if not I'm perfectly content being on the only one in this thread pissed off.

Spoken like a Dark knight! ^^b

[Rezeak]

This ability is useless hands down.

We pointed it out to SE they just extended the length of time you have to proc the DMG boost.

Which is good except the ability still has no real use in the game.

Also YES it's a small boost to on what DRK already has

And we're complaining cause what we want are fixes and abiltys that make DRK more alliance friendly.

While i do feel the way Urt posts is a little exteme and prolly put SE off replying considering they don't want to bow to people insulting them.
I do understand why he's doing it, DRK is a job the SE has had no clear direction and ALOT of the stuff added has been random and when we ask why are you adding this they either don't respond or give some lame excuse that anyone that has played DRK for a few months would know isn't the case.

For example...
Like DRKs having to get hit by AoEs to stun a mob


In many cases, dangerous special abilities and magic that are used by the opponent can be halted by Stun, but there are instances where Stun does not work or cannot be cast due to recast timers. There are also instances where players will have to take the damage from some attacks in order to stop more powerful attacks instead.
STUN IS A 20 DISTANCE SPELL

Summary : SE has no real direction w/ DRK and doesn't seem to understand what it needs.

[Byrth]

They're talking about prioritizing stunning certain moves over others. Because you stun certain moves over others, some moves will still get through and you'll be able to charge Scarlet Delirium. Stun and Scarlet Delirium take about the same amount of activation time, so when you choose to not stun a stunnable TP move because you're saving Stun for something else, you could activate Scarlet Delirium using the same reflexes. That's what they meant, even if it isn't practical.

[Ash]

You get hit, it turns into a straight damage dealt bonus.

I had DRK sitting at 90 for a while, decided to take it to 95 to do some "tests" (loosely)

I couldn't honestly tell the difference after taking a 1k Stone V from Megamaw Mikey while using this ability.

Im very glad im not the only one who didn t notice an increase after getting hit for 1k+

[Alhanelem]

it could have been a decent ability, if the conversion rate of damage to boost was better, or if it ignored hits too small to produce a meaningful bonus.

[Muras]

They're talking about prioritizing stunning certain moves over others. Because you stun certain moves over others, some moves will still get through and you'll be able to charge Scarlet Delirium. Stun and Scarlet Delirium take about the same amount of activation time, so when you choose to not stun a stunnable TP move because you're saving Stun for something else, you could activate Scarlet Delirium using the same reflexes. That's what they meant, even if it isn't practical.

I kinda took it as them saying not everything is stunnable, like how you can't stun something like say... Goblin Rush (Unless you're just lucky. I'm sure we've all accidentally stunned moves like that before). But even so, the way people usually play is that you stay out of range to avoid those TP moves. You don't know when the mob will use them, so the only way to avoid them is to never be in range. That's where the concept "run in only to WS" comes from.

But we can give SE the benefit of the doubt, and say we ARE in melee range, taking huge AoE hits. What usually happens after taking a big hit, is you run OUT of range to avoid taking a second hit so you don't die while the healers focus on the tank(s). Any reasonable DRK knows they're not top priority for cures, so unless you want to be a useless melee (A dead one), you get out. The buff only lasts a minute, so it's not doing you much good here either.

You just have to wonder what crazy backwards upside-down world Scarlet Delirium comes from.

[Kysaiana]

The reason you don't notice anything from taking 1k damage in abyssea is because it's not actual damage taken but what ever % of your HP is lost that is converted into the bonus damage. 1k HP probably isn't even half your HP in abyssea if you have crour buffs and all the abyssites for HP/MP.

I guess if someone wanted to they could fight Resheph and see if they notice any thing after using scarlet delirium and getting hit with tarsal slam to put you at 1 HP. Should be fairly safe to test since that move resets hate.

Personally I haven't found a situation where I'm on drk, a mob has a TP move/spell I can't or won't stun, and I get hit by said move/spell before I'm smacked for 30 damage instead when I use scarlet delirium. But that's just me.

[Byrth]

If you melee Voidwatch NMs and don't get hate / take hits, you'll end up taking a lot of AoE damage from the TP moves you aren't stunning. Think about the Tier 3/4 Voidwatch NMs. They have a lot of AoE TP moves, and you only stun some of them. Timing isn't exactly an issue on them. If you stay in range for 30 seconds, you're going to get hit with some kind of big AoE.

The Last Resort patch was your big buff. You're lucky this JA has any use at all, compared to something like Ternary Flourish.

[Quetzacoatl]

it could have been a decent ability, if the conversion rate of damage to boost was better, or if it ignored hits too small to produce a meaningful bonus.
It should have functioned like Mana Wall, instead where Damage Taken transfers to ATT/MAB...instead SE decided to derp it up by making it one hit taken only. I don't understand why SE thinks this is not viable.

[Urteil]

If you melee Voidwatch NMs and don't get hate / take hits, you'll end up taking a lot of AoE damage from the TP moves you aren't stunning. Think about the Tier 3/4 Voidwatch NMs. They have a lot of AoE TP moves, and you only stun some of them. Timing isn't exactly an issue on them. If you stay in range for 30 seconds, you're going to get hit with some kind of big AoE.

The Last Resort patch was your big buff. You're lucky this JA has any use at all, compared to something like Ternary Flourish.


I'm glad that big buff made the job playable, now I'd like buffs to make Dark Knight make sense.

It would be nice of Occult Acumen made 0.001% of sense, does any other job have 4 tiers of Job Trait that makes as little sense as OA?


Spoiler Alert: No.

[Mizura]

Not going to lie Urteil does seem a little whiney about his predicament, however I can sympathize with him to an extent. While I have never leveled DRK I understand how frustrating it is to be the best you can in the job you prefer to play and still not be as good or useful as a mediocre skilled player who didn't put nearly the amount of time or effort into their specific job. There is nothing more disheartening than to be told that you're useless or unnecessary when you're as passionate as he is about his job, when all that is necessary to remedy these issues is SE matching his passion, reading player feedback and implementing change to better "balance" the jobs. Just because you add another job ability and put it on the same timer as the one useful thing your job does or implement a flashy spell that does the exact thing 3 others do doesn't accomplish this task.

[Economizer]

It should have functioned like Mana Wall, instead where Damage Taken transfers to ATT/MAB...instead SE decided to derp it up by making it one hit taken only. I don't understand why SE thinks this is not viable.

I dunno about viable, but I'm thinking they are just reusing the code from Afflatus Misery that only counts the last hit as well. Granted, that job ability sucks pretty badly too (especially since SE nerfed the accuracy boost Auspice gave a long time ago) although I'm slightly more confident that Scarlet Delirium would be changed then Misery. Maybe if one gets changed and they share the same code, they'll both be changed to work on a cumulative amount, although I'm not sure this will make either one good.

[Urteil]

Not going to lie Urteil does seem a little whiney about his predicament, however I can sympathize with him to an extent. While I have never leveled DRK I understand how frustrating it is to be the best you can in the job you prefer to play and still not be as good or useful as a mediocre skilled player who didn't put nearly the amount of time or effort into their specific job. There is nothing more disheartening than to be told that you're useless or unnecessary when you're as passionate as he is about his job, when all that is necessary to remedy these issues is SE matching his passion, reading player feedback and implementing change to better "balance" the jobs. Just because you add another job ability and put it on the same timer as the one useful thing your job does or implement a flashy spell that does the exact thing 3 others do doesn't accomplish this task.


Stop whining, you'll look like me.

[Quetzacoatl]

I dunno about viable, but I'm thinking they are just reusing the code from Afflatus Misery that only counts the last hit as well. Granted, that job ability sucks pretty badly too (especially since SE nerfed the accuracy boost Auspice gave a long time ago) although I'm slightly more confident that Scarlet Delirium would be changed then Misery. Maybe if one gets changed and they share the same code, they'll both be changed to work on a cumulative amount, although I'm not sure this will make either one good.

Either way, as it stands now, I almost forgot it even existed. :\

[Dakotacj]

I'm glad that big buff made the job playable, now I'd like buffs to make Dark Knight make sense.

It would be nice of Occult Acumen made 0.001% of sense, does any other job have 4 tiers of Job Trait that makes as little sense as OA?


Spoiler Alert: No.


Look ma! A real Dark Knight! Full of friggin Emo and everything.

FYI Occult Acumen isn't completely useless. For example: Landing Impact on a mob with a minimum of Bale Sollerets +1/+2 will return about 100ish TP, resulting in a free WS (in exchange for usually a full MP pool, but that's what ethers and elixirs were invented to fix!). You can also build TP with it while nuking stuff like VWNMs trying to find the magic procs for your mages, likewise with Abyssea NMs, or Dynamis procs.

Sure Scarlet Delirium sucks unless you're fighting something like a RNG which you're sure is about to EES rape your face, or a SMN using Astral Flow and you're sure you can live (most people can in Dynamis now), or you're fighting an Ironclad type mob which is just a bundle of AoEs.

Point being, instead of going to the corner and crying that your job is getting "useless" stuff, try using it first and fully test it before you deem it completely useless. And if you really don't like it, then don't use it or, level a different job. IMO it could be a lot worse. They could have made SD only useful if you had just 1% HP. Then you would have died before making any use of it.

[Chriscoffey]

They could have made dragoon wyvern still be 2 it's hour and your weapon skill option still be penta thrust. That would have given you a reason to not be here talking about how darks emo over idiotic ideas implemented to dark.

I believe it is quite obvious all dark knights have no clue how to play other jobs and we center our knowledge based solely on dark knight experiences alone <sarcasm>. I find this amusing that other jobs suggest we TRY out a job ability/JA/etc to understand it's potential before we can talk about it's effectiveness being complete shit for most things used in game.

[Alhanelem]

The whole idea of occult accumen was to partially offset the disadvantage of the time spent casting a spell versus the melee swing or two you could have gotten off instead. Occult accumen doesn't just apply to the elemental nukes, drain and drain II also give TP and odds are you do use these spells if not any others. DRK gets more tiers of it in a futile effort to get DRKs to use their magic more (and also to take into consideration the lower MP costs of even the most costly DRK spells compared to SCH and BLM). Basically, casting damaging spells gives the enemy TP, so why not give the player some.

(I also didn't consider that impact works with it- I actually find the thought of that pretty amusing :P Not to metnion the fact that it could also help the damage of that WS slightly, because impact lowers the enemy's attributes)

[Taint2]

Scarlet Delirium IS A GOOD JA!

No its not good on Fodder content, it is excellent on harder content like VW.

[Alhanelem]

Sure, if you get hit by a 1000 AoE you can get a sizeable bonus out of it. The problem is you have to jump through hoops to make use of it. It's too hard to use for what it does.

[Chriscoffey]

Sure, if you get hit by a 1000 AoE you can get a sizeable bonus out of it. The problem is you have to jump through hoops to make use of it. It's too hard to use for what it does COMPARED TO OTHER JOB ABILITIES.

Fixed that .

[Greatguardian]

Sorry, guys. Souleater and Last Resort are just too strong. We did not realize that situational JAs would look piddly next to them. Our mistake. We'll just nerf Souleater and Last Resort so the relative power is more fair.

[Taint2]

Play Better. SD is on a 3min timer, when timed right 30%+ HP of damage it gives a very noticable boost to damage.

While you complain about SD and DRK in general I'll be tanking T3 VW mobs. A boost is a boost. As a career DRK I can appreciate in the small boost. (and sometimes large in this case)

[Chriscoffey]

Taint you act like you have some sort of great credentials over the rest of us. I don't like the fucking ability when compared to other jobs easily used abilities without it being tied to a "do or die" situation so I voice that concern. That has nothing to do with me playing like shit or the fact I can't hit a macro at the proper time like I do with stun or weapon bash. I wish people like you would lose that bit of nonsense that we must suck at timing to complain about SD's use in special situations.


Sorry, guys. Souleater and Last Resort are just too strong. We did not realize that situational JAs would look piddly next to them. Our mistake. We'll just nerf Souleater and Last Resort so the relative power is more fair.

All right. I accept that as long as they remove the empyrean weapon skills that have been added for all jobs and abilities/updates added since abyssea. I will be quite content. I can cap out haste either way with apocalypse so doesn't hurt me in the slightest HOWEVER it does put a hurt on most jobs WS potential and DOT.

[Greatguardian]

o ok. You're mad because DRK didn't get Impetus.

Kay.

Keep on ignoring the strengths of your job and comparing its weakest (?) ability to the strongest abilities of other jobs.

Meanwhile, I'll keep wishing I had a Berserk+HasteSamba+1 combo that I can keep up 60% of the time.

[Chriscoffey]

No I am just fine. I said i was fine with the lowering of souleater and last resort if all other jobs abilities/updates and weaponskills added since abyssea could be taken away. It would far more hurt your jobs than it does dark considering the epic fail shit they gave us besides those two. I would go as far to say it would probably help with this easy mode killing that FFXI fell into after those changes.

[Greatguardian]

Nerf.


Eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr'thang.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Chriscoffey]

Yeah nerf ALL jobs back to pre abyssea. I don't see you commenting much about that topic though. It would mean you actually thought about how much mnk or other jobs would lose they gained during that time that overpowered them.

[Greatguardian]

I'm pretty sure DRK was in the same place pre-Abyssea that is is now.

Namely, epic in the right hands. Piss-poor in the average ones.

[Chriscoffey]

You go on the retarded assumption I must be shit player which is a huge fallacy. I have been on a few servers myself and not once have i ever been told I was one of those idiotic players you are speaking of even from the people who hated me and wished as much.

I know the advantages of using SD in it's one shot glory wonder but I find myself faintly wondering why SE does this considering the other abilities. I don't think it's something i agree with and i voice that concern with other people on here. The rest of you come on like we are some kind of idiots with no room to voice this opinion. If dark was left up to your thought process we still would not have gotten the LR or SE update at all.

[Greatguardian]

I'm not making any assumptions about your skill.

I'm being honest about where DRK stands now and where it stood pre-Abyssea.

DRK was one of the premier endgame tanks pre-Abyssea, and a very solid DD in capable hands. It was also one of the least naturally powerful jobs, so it lacked an insta-Win button like Gekko that raised the perceived efficacy of mediocre players. It had a learning curve associated with it, and honestly all fun jobs do. I'm sorry if timing abilities is "harder" than just pressing the win button every time it's up, but that's just how DRK works.

[Chriscoffey]

I'm not making any assumptions about your skill.

I'm being honest about where DRK stands now and where it stood pre-Abyssea.

DRK was one of the premier endgame tanks pre-Abyssea, and a very solid DD in capable hands. It was also one of the least naturally powerful jobs, so it lacked an insta-Win button like Gekko that raised the perceived efficacy of mediocre players. It had a learning curve associated with it, and honestly all fun jobs do. I'm sorry if timing abilities is "harder" than just pressing the win button every time it's up, but that's just how DRK works.
I do concur with that point at least.