The test server is more fun than the real game. [Archive]

Inafking

09-08-2011, 01:37 AM

I didn't even plan on signing up for the test server. I knew it was going to distract me from trying to make progress on my real charaters. But I thought if I ever wanted to use it in the future, I better sign up now. And what do I see when I first log in? Instant 95 on whatever job I want. Instant access to every spell. Instant access to a plethra of items I will never have in the real game including AF2, AF3+2, crazy weapons, and sky/sea items. Instant access to consumable items. Instant skill caps. Though of all of these things you've let one horible thing slip. This is how you intend people to play the game. That wouldn't be so bad if all the things I just mentioned weren't impossible to obtain.

Leveling is a lot better than it used to be, once you get a job in the 70ish range. But getting to that point? Impossible w/o paying someone for a FC PT or spending weeks trying to grind to that point. Even then, trying to get to 30 is a time consuming endeavor. Of all the things I plan on mentioning, this is the esiest, but it's still too time consuming and distracts from making actual progress in the game. Especially, for example, when BLMs are required to take up BRD just to proc.

Utsumei Ni is still over 1mil. That is the most agregious example but there are still plenty of ones like Raise 3, Phalanx, and High tier / procing BLM spells. Where are we supposed to get the gil for all of this?

The items are what hurt me the most. There is no way to get any of them unless you con a LS in to getting them for you. There are jobs like PLD, SMN and RDM that require these items to even be playable. No LS or person is going to help you get anything they want for themselves. Then there are consumable items that are so expensive I can't even level NIN or RNG for a main and I haven't even touched PUP just because I can't afford the expense to even try it.

IDK anyone with max parrying or max guard skill, let alone both. I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD. The mobs are either too weak and will give no skill ups or too tough and won't give skill ups. I have sience given up.

I know you can't make the real game as easy as the test server but there has to be some kind of happy medium. Most of this could be fixed by making it easier for people who need a PT to find each other or giving multiple drops for PTs that all want the same thing. I had an idea for this that went ignored.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11395-Jeuno-Quest-Bulliten-Board

But ultimatly access to all these things are up to you. IDC how you do it, but if these are all the things one needs to play the game as you intend, then you need to make them easier to get. Even though I've been playing seince 2004 and have multinple 90s, (sarcasim)I'm just an english speaking n00b(/sarcasim) and my ideas are not welcome.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/Inafking/dev.jpg

Alhanelem

09-08-2011, 02:04 AM

Of course it's fun to be a cheatin b****rd ... at first. :p then you remember how much fun it was when something was a little less easy.

Runespider

09-08-2011, 02:08 AM

Malamasala

09-08-2011, 02:08 AM

Everyone on the test server proves that people do not instantly quit the day they have everything. Assuming the game had anything fun to do to begin with.

tinydog

09-08-2011, 02:12 AM

Inafking

09-08-2011, 02:17 AM

Playing an MMO or RPG is about lots of work to accomplsh things, that's the whole point. For players that have yet to accomplish much in the real game it's like being let run loose in a candy store, for normal players it's nothing special.

Like I said, there needs to be some kind of happy medium. If the stuff they give out in the test server is "normal" then how come %90 of the game does not have what they give out for their main job?

Inafking

09-08-2011, 02:23 AM

man the day i pay some1 to let me be a leech in xp pt is the day you should really quit the game. also gil is very easy to come by you sell w/e drops you get from outside and inside abyssea. also try and get into a linkshell where you can make some friends and start doing abyssea. oh and if some1 doesn't invite you because you did not sub brd tell them to suck it.

I have yet to pay for a PT, that is why I have an elvan that is severly under developed and why my mithra isn't going to have access to nin even though she can't afford the nin tools. As far as linkshell, well, let's just say that hasn't worked out either. Everyone wants me to come to their stuff but no one wants to help me with mine. Gil is not easy to obtain. Any items worth selling can not be obtained solo w/o all the really cool gear you need to scam people to get.

SpankWustler

09-08-2011, 02:36 AM

Make one friend. Just one. You can duo well-over half of FFXI at the moment. It's not always Super Effective like tossing a rock at Pikachu's electrified head, but you can do it.

Join every Abyssea party that exists. Even after your merits are capped. Sell the stuff you can buy with cruor. Sell the weapons you can buy with whatever Dominion points are called.

I have no idea why this game is so difficult and unpleasant for you and I doubt I ever will.

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 03:10 AM

I can't believe the OP is complaining about this game being too hard.

You say you've been playing since 2004? Did you do CoP before it got nerfed the first time, or after? Or did you do CoP after the level cap was removed? Did you spend hours grinding exp for a couple of levels in a party where noone could be more than 2 levels apart? And where the party disbanded when the tank had to leave? Did you ever sit with flag up for hours on end on a not-so-popular job such a drk or drg, days in a row? Were you ever in a big Dynamis ls with unfair lotting rules or where everybody had 76868768 more points than you?

I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD.

Hi. I took staff from 87 to 230+, club from 67 to 230+, GS from 100ish to 250+ and scythe from 140ish to 240+ all as war and all outside abyssea. All because I wanted to do the wsnms for that blue proc weaponskill. I also went and broke the latent on all those trial weapons solo - again outside abyssea.

Do BCNM for Utsusemi: Ni. Try farming those spells you can't afford. Or alternatively, farm something else that will make you able to afford those scrolls. Npc cruor gear, dominion notes weapons, stuff from gold boxes with crap augments that noone wants.

Join or make book burn parties on low lvl jobs if you can't get a leech spot for free.

Those are just a few things that comes to mind.

But yeah, almost everybody is screaming "FFXI is too easy now" and you say the opposite. Go figure.

Inafking

09-08-2011, 03:29 AM

Did you do CoP before it got nerfed the first time, or after? Or did you do CoP after the level cap was removed? Did you spend hours grinding exp for a couple of levels in a party where noone could be more than 2 levels apart? And where the party disbanded when the tank had to leave? Did you ever sit with flag up for hours on end on a not-so-popular job such a drk or drg, days in a row? Were you ever in a big Dynamis ls with unfair lotting rules or where everybody had 76868768 more points than you? Try farming those spells you can't afford. Or alternatively, farm something else that will make you able to afford those scrolls. Join or make book burn parties on low lvl jobs if you can't get a leech spot for free. almost everybody is screaming "FFXI is too easy now" and you say the opposite.

I've done all of this. CoP I did up to mission 6 pre nerf with my hume and taru. They're both on 8-5 now. Mithra has up to mission 2 done before the first capped nerf way back when. The fact is the stuff you need PT for requires willing participants who are able to do their job. When I'm in a pt, I never find enough people who are both. And when you factor in willing to let me have the items I need, the amount of qualifying players decreases even further. For the record, the only people who are saying it's too easy are mentally ill elitist scum who don't have the capacity for sympathy and want everyone to suffer as they did. I'm trying to make the world a better place. Welcome to the ignore list.

Olor

09-08-2011, 03:38 AM

Neisan_Quetz

09-08-2011, 03:41 AM

Skill ups are way easier than they used to be.

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 03:42 AM

I've done all of this. CoP I did up to mission 6 pre nerf with my hume and taru. They're both on 8-5 now. Mithra has up to mission 2 done before the first capped nerf way back when. The fact is the stuff you need PT for requires willing participants who are able to do their job. When I'm in a pt, I never find enough people who are both. And when you factor in willing to let me have the items I need, the amount of qualifying players decreases even further. For the record, the only people who are saying it's too easy are mentally ill elitist scum who don't have the capacity for sympathy and want everyone to suffer as they did. I'm trying to make the world a better place. Welcome to the ignore list.

Having everything you want handed to you without working for it, is making the world a better place?

And lol, oh noes, the ignore list - how will I ever recover from such a terrible fate?

Alpheus

09-08-2011, 03:42 AM

You can get quite a bit accomplished utilizing PuGs for abyssea content. I know I did before I joined an Abyssea ls i could call home and that was with my server having the reputation of being lolasura. I will grant the fact that it prob came down to dumb luck and sheer coincidence tho

Zagen

09-08-2011, 04:02 AM

yeah, I think the OP has a point to a certain extent... especially about the skill ups. Honestly I would be just as happy if you got max skills each level. Skilling up is a boring grind... and honestly, I don't play video games to be bored.
Why would you play an RPG/MMORPG or any game that requires leveling up or doing X thing Y times? The whole thing about video games is grinding with some story, if you take the "grinding" out then its a movie.

Kimara

09-08-2011, 04:16 AM

Having everything you want handed to you without working for it, is making the world a better place?

And lol, oh noes, the ignore list - how will I ever recover from such a terrible fate?

I lol'd hard ^

Anyways I don't have a problem with making gil or leveling jobs. Granted i've been playing for almost 7 years but there are tons of ways to make money now that were not around back in the day. Like abyssea opened up many ways to make money via NPCing the vision gear or using your dominion notes and NPCing the weapons. Which all, to me, seem a bit easier than how it was when I was still leveling. In other words I just don't see the problem you're having here :S.

Valonquar

09-08-2011, 04:59 AM

TL;DR version: This game is too much work for me. Make it cater to my impatient need for instant gratification please.

Hayward

09-08-2011, 05:21 AM

Having everything you want handed to you without working for it, is making the world a better place?

And lol, oh noes, the ignore list - how will I ever recover from such a terrible fate?

I've only 2 words in reply to this talking point: Pound sand.

S-E was on a good track with Visions of Abyssea, making the game accessible to everyone regardless of their job choice. Then the loudmouths at the cool kids forum started rambling on about FFXI being made too easy (i.e. killing the cronyism that was prevalent in too many endgame linkshells).

The result? An Empyrean weapon/shield/instrument system that encourages cronyism and mercenary behavior reminiscent of the Dynamis days, not to mention a new level of job discrimination.

Calling out things that are wrong in an MMO isn't wanting something handed to you.

Huevriel

09-08-2011, 05:29 AM

IDK anyone with max parrying or max guard skill, let alone both. I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD. The mobs are either too weak and will give no skill ups or too tough and won't give skill ups. I have sience given up.

You might just not know people who care about their job enough. There are many of us who grind to keep all stats capped. . . Well, maybe not many, but a dedicated few who really put the time and effort into skill ups. Been grinding on Parrying for a couple years now. I know people with capped guarding and capped skills/magic for their subjobs (even though they don't need some of em for their main job).

For those of you who have all capped skills, /salute. I envy you. For those of you who know me in game and are tired of hearing me complain that GoV has taken away a lot of my parry skill up camps, I'm sorry.

Leonlionheart

09-08-2011, 05:29 AM

How has anyone not said the most simple response to this silly OP?

stop sucking at ffxi

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 05:43 AM

Calling out things that are wrong in an MMO isn't wanting something handed to you.

I don't see the OP's post as calling out things that are wrong with FFXI.

He's been playing since 2004. Everything in this game has gradually been made easier since then, especially since the release of abyssea. And yet he basically says the game is too hard. The only thing I can agree with to an extent, is that the price of certain scrolls is ridiculous.

I see it as whining.

Defiledsickness

09-08-2011, 06:09 AM

only Raise3 is too expensive too buy for a casual player. but who cares, its not like it would ever effect you (reraise3 is cheap). get utsusemi from the bcnm it takes 3 people and is incredibly easy (and great gil to buy your other stuff).

af3+2 is not hard to get, you take 6 people who all can get online together and go get your stuff. the reason it gets hard is when people get greedy and dont share the loot or leave after they are done with their stuff (that's why you have linkshells).

i had all weapons for War up to 200+ before the easier skillups, its not hard. stop paying to leech XP and actually PLAY during book burns. you'll skill up just in time for 70-75 and abyssea invites and you can cap your skills doing endgame stuff. stop whining, cop was horrifying before the cap (still got it done) but nothing else is hard. i leveled pup and blm recently through book burns and abyssea; pup20-90 and blm45-90 in only two weeks (including all pup AF1 some af3+1, and most Blm af1).

test server is not as fun as the real game, but it is fun to play jobs before putting actual effort into leveling them.

Zagen

09-08-2011, 06:26 AM

only Raise3 is too expensive too buy for a casual player. but who cares, its not like it would ever effect you (reraise3 is cheap). get utsusemi from the bcnm it takes 3 people and is incredibly easy (and great gil to buy your other stuff).

On my server Raise 3 runs around 1mil, 400k Cru = 1mil gil. How is that too expensive for a casual player?

Defiledsickness

09-08-2011, 06:33 AM

well if you really want to sell away your cruor then go for it. it takes 200k per brew so i save my cruor (i only have 1.2mil cruor). i've had a mil in gil a few times but i always spent it on stuff i wanted more then Raise3.

Yarly

09-08-2011, 07:58 AM

This is how the game should be. Except add relics/mythics/real empyreans to the gm moogle and you're golden.

But you'd have to make it so that you have to have your job leveled to 30 before you can adjust it to 95 to add some difficulty (otherwise it'd be too easy and people would get bored)

Soranika

09-08-2011, 08:14 AM

The day FFXI makes me lose all since of accomplishment is the day I'll officially quit. As it stands, I thoroughly enjoy my DNC90 now... which took a grand total of a week and a half roughly with interruptions (LS events, doing things with friends, taking care of quests). Not only that, I broke dagger of trials latent in one sitting, got the dagger WS, capped dagger skill and evasion in three days after leveling. So I did that in the span of week in a half, mean while three years ago it took a grand total 3 full months of very diligent leveling (Solo, waiting for invites into parties or up and making my own) to take SMN from 1 to 75 with little to no interruptions other than sleep and work.

The game is significantly MORE easier than what it was post abyssea. People who still say it's hard and complain about it are supremely lazy and got their priorities wrong on the reason they play the game.

Kimara

09-08-2011, 08:19 AM

The game is significantly MORE easier

I couldn't help myself. lol <3

Though I have to agree with the last thing you said. If people are saying the game is too hard they are being really lazy because it's nothing compared to how it use to be. However, I am still having fun.

noodles355

09-08-2011, 08:22 AM

What you wrote:

Leveling is a lot better than it used to be, once you get a job in the 70ish range. But getting to that point? Impossible w/o paying someone for a FC PT or spending weeks trying to grind to that point. Even then, trying to get to 30 is a time consuming endeavor. Of all the things I plan on mentioning, this is the esiest, but it's still too time consuming and distracts from making actual progress in the game. Especially, for example, when BLMs are required to take up BRD just to proc.

Utsumei Ni is still over 1mil. That is the most agregious example but there are still plenty of ones like Raise 3, Phalanx, and High tier / procing BLM spells. Where are we supposed to get the gil for all of this?

The items are what hurt me the most. There is no way to get any of them unless you con a LS in to getting them for you. There are jobs like PLD, SMN and RDM that require these items to even be playable. No LS or person is going to help you get anything they want for themselves. Then there are consumable items that are so expensive I can't even level NIN or RNG for a main and I haven't even touched PUP just because I can't afford the expense to even try it.

IDK anyone with max parrying or max guard skill, let alone both. I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD. The mobs are either too weak and will give no skill ups or too tough and won't give skill ups. I have sience given up.
What I read:

Leveling is hard QQ
I can't make gil QQ
I can't get any items myself QQ
I can't skillup QQ
Suck less.

I have 8 Lv90 jobs over 2 characters and haven't paid for a leech spot once.
Dominion Notes and Cruor can both be used to purchase stuff that sells for gil. You gain that rapidly.
Of all my +1 and +2 gear, I only got one +2 piece through a linkshell. Everything else I farmed-pops then shouted in PJ or asked friends to help pop. I'm 33/50 on my Lv80 Empy trial which I farmed completely by myself. I will be able to farm my Lv85 upgrade by myself as well.
Skilling up is easy if you chose the right mobs. Stop fighting stuff that's too weak or too strong. Fight stuff appropriate to you combat skill level. Once you get higher, do it in abyssea where you are pumped up with atma and buffs. Guard and parry take dedicate methods to skillup. Stop expecting them to skillup like regular skills. If you want them capped, go turtle up with def/regain atmas/etc in abyssea, link a load of mobs, engage a far away mob and let them wail on you.

It's really no way near as bad as you're making it out to be. Just because you suck, doesn't mean the game is too hard.

SpankWustler

09-08-2011, 08:22 AM

S-E was on a good track with Visions of Abyssea, making the game accessible to everyone regardless of their job choice. Then the loudmouths at the cool kids forum started rambling on about FFXI being made too easy (i.e. killing the cronyism that was prevalent in too many endgame linkshells).

The result? An Empyrean weapon/shield/instrument system that encourages cronyism and mercenary behavior reminiscent of the Dynamis days, not to mention a new level of job discrimination.

So, between the one person hitting the thing that drops an Empyrean upgrade item and the other person healing him or her, which one is the crony?

If possible, please provide a diagram.

chubrocka

09-08-2011, 08:35 AM

And I thought I got lazy!! WOW

svengalis

09-08-2011, 08:43 AM

On my server Raise 3 runs around 1mil, 400k Cru = 1mil gil. How is that too expensive for a casual player?

Why would anyone waste gil on raise 3?

Zagen

09-08-2011, 08:50 AM

Why would anyone waste gil on raise 3?
Not sure aside from spell completionists since EXP means nothing now. I was merely pointing out the cost of it at 1mil gil shouldn't be "a lot" of gil to a casual player in today's economy. When the laziest person can burn the Cru they get EXPing to make gil.

Urteil

09-08-2011, 09:12 AM

You don't have capped skills?

No wonder you hate PvP.

Leonlionheart

09-08-2011, 09:33 AM

Why would anyone waste gil on raise 3?

So you can be good at WHM?

Having 3 different raises is essential to coming back from wipes in a low mage situation, and is helpful beyond belief in the tougher Voidwatch fights.

Neisan_Quetz

09-08-2011, 09:58 AM

Playas better bring their own RR items.

Soranika

09-08-2011, 10:22 AM

Never leave Jeuno without a scroll of instant reraise, even on WHM and SCH.

Mirage

09-08-2011, 10:35 AM

If you want Raise 3, just go kill kirin or something. I mean, how hard could it be?

Leonlionheart

09-08-2011, 10:44 AM

Playas better bring their own RR items.

Yeah, everyone should always have reraise on, but sometimes shit happens.

Mirage

09-08-2011, 10:47 AM

I think reraise should be accessionable. Would solve all our problems.

But seriously though, OP, are you serious? A friend of mine joined two weeks ago and had never played the game before, he's already got monk at 70 and sam at 75. In fact, he switched to sam after getting mnk to 70 because he kept dying to mnk maat so he leveled sam to do G5 instead <.<, but that's a different story. These were his first jobs ever, and he still got it done in a couple of weeks. You say you've played since 2004 and still have problems getting to 70?

And yes, utsu ni costs 1.2 millions on my server. But do you know how much it was when i was new? 800k, and at that time, money was twice as hard to get by than it is now. I got my utsu scroll from doing the damned BCNMs with one friend and one random pickup dude. You can do that too. Don't have friends and can't afford it? No worries, no one will care if you have it or not in GoV book burns. You probably won't even need it in them.

This entire thread can be summed up in three words: Learn to play.

Vortex

09-08-2011, 11:07 AM

You don't have capped skills?

No wonder you hate PvP.

Actually i have caped skills and i still hate pvp, it's a shitty system, period, skills have little to do with it's horrible. unbalanced content. it's just something to do when you are extreamly bored.

So you can be good at WHM?

Having 3 different raises is essential to coming back from wipes in a low mage situation, and is helpful beyond belief in the tougher Voidwatch fights.

Meh, while this is true the current price tag on it absurd, it's not worth any more then 200k MAX, and that's only because of how to get it. of course old school WHMs would already have this scroll. but if people will pay 5+ mil for +1 stat more then a 100k item then people will waste gill on anything. i mean, some retard even paied 10 mil for a vivid strap +1 which is just a 1% fast cast..

in short, it dosn't make you "good" at whm it just means you have an extra raise avalible, no one cares about exp loss anymore. however quicker raises can also be fixed by celerity with raise.

But yea in response to this topic of course test server is more fun, everything is handed to you with no work. which is what lazy people adore.

Psxpert2011

09-08-2011, 11:26 AM

I think reraise should be accessionable. Would solve all our problems.

... I got my utsu scroll from doing the damned BCNMs with one friend and one random pickup dude. You can do that too. Don't have friends and can't afford it? No worries, no one will care if you have it or not in GoV book burns. You probably won't even need it in them.

This entire thread can be summed up in three words: Learn to play.

Now that is one hard-core kitty! I remember those days...like it was yesterday and (poof) now they're gone. SE need to create a seperate server for the nostalgic parties. BCNMs were the way of the Gil-Finder back then... somewhat the same for some but we need new equipment and gear for drops. BCNMs are so rehearsed now, it's easy money people don't need to pay for the stuff, they'll just go get it for themselves.

My first job to 75 was Paladin and I beat Maat with it too. Hard-core leveling will never be the same...

Mirage

09-08-2011, 11:33 AM

I've actually been thinking about doing some royal jellies only for the cash. Sure, you can make cash from cruor, but sometimes it's nice to keep it for brews. Doing a couple of RJs could net you an easy 1-2 millions if you're just a bit lucky. I could also use refresh and phalanx from that fight. Even if those are more affordable, it still saves me cruor equal to one brew :p.

noodles355

09-08-2011, 11:47 AM

I decided to transfer my mule's cruor to gil and not brews when I realised he sucks at brewing.

Atomic_Skull

09-08-2011, 12:07 PM

Everyone on the test server proves that people do not instantly quit the day they have everything.

You are wrong.

When Undine opened a /sea all showed around 400 people. Today it showed 37.

Neisan_Quetz

09-08-2011, 12:12 PM

To be fair there is several content blocked due to lack of participation, and being a copy server there's no benefit to your main from being on there other than to test whatever suits your fancy.

Atomic_Skull

09-08-2011, 12:31 PM

It also gets boring rather quickly.

Vortex

09-08-2011, 01:17 PM

It is a "test" server it serves it's reason for it's exsistence it was not meant to be a main home. SE made it to cut down on future server maint and to get feed back on things before they come out. i don't see the problem with it.

Inafking

09-08-2011, 01:19 PM

It also gets boring rather quickly.

What's borring is trying to skill up for days and not getting any. What's borring is trying to put together a group of under geared people to try and get something decent. What's borring is having to grind for money. People have been ignoring the fact that I asked for a happy medium. There has to be some kind of compromise to get past the grinding crap and get on with the real game.

Atomic_Skull

09-08-2011, 01:42 PM

Scribble

09-08-2011, 01:47 PM

Atomic_Skull

09-08-2011, 03:58 PM

Nearly everything you are talking about was 10 times harder before the slew of updates made them more accessible. If anything, SE should implement a test server circa 2004 to show people how much easier it is now to get things done and make money. Your river of tears would run dry.

Basically he is asking "why don't they just start us all off at max level with all jobs"

Urteil

09-08-2011, 04:03 PM

Actually i have caped skills and i still hate pvp, it's a shitty system, period, skills have little to do with it's horrible. unbalanced content. it's just something to do when you are extreamly bored.

Meh, while this is true the current price tag on it absurd, it's not worth any more then 200k MAX, and that's only because of how to get it. of course old school WHMs would already have this scroll. but if people will pay 5+ mil for +1 stat more then a 100k item then people will waste gill on anything. i mean, some retard even paied 10 mil for a vivid strap +1 which is just a 1% fast cast..

in short, it dosn't make you "good" at whm it just means you have an extra raise avalible, no one cares about exp loss anymore. however quicker raises can also be fixed by celerity with raise.

But yea in response to this topic of course test server is more fun, everything is handed to you with no work. which is what lazy people adore.

Its refreshing to see someone who knows how terrible they are and openly admit it, the OP tries to hide it, terribly.

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 04:37 PM

What's borring is trying to skill up for days and not getting any. What's borring is trying to put together a group of under geared people to try and get something decent. What's borring is having to grind for money. People have been ignoring the fact that I asked for a happy medium. There has to be some kind of compromise to get past the grinding crap and get on with the real game.

However did you manage NOT to quit the game well before abyssea was released? Seeing as everything you mention here as boring (1 r, not 2), is waaaaayyyyy easier now that it's ever been?

You know what I used to do to make gil? I mined. I farmed boyahda moss and tree cuttings in Zi'Tah - for hours and hours and hours, competing against rmts. I used those tree cuttings and had several gardening mules, growing elemental ores (or trying to, at least). I kept every single drop from everything I did - crystals, wild onions, rabbit hides, colibri feathers, you name it - and sent to jeuno mule to sell at the AH, or npc'ed it.

If you are trying to skill up for days and not succeeding, you are doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

What's borring is trying to put together a group of under geared people to try and get something decent.

Don't you have any friends at all that you can do stuff with? Be it seal nms or +2 item nms?

There has to be some kind of compromise to get past the grinding crap and get on with the real game.

There is much much much less grinding crap in FFXI now. I don't understand how you do not recognize this.

Meh, why am I responding to someone who put me on their ignore list? It just irks me that someone who's been playing for 7 years is complaining about the game being too hard. No, it actually AMAZES me that someone who's been playing for that long, is complaining about the game being too hard.

FANCY60

09-08-2011, 06:20 PM

oi where u get that 2004 remark from im sure ive ssen it somewhere before lol i agree with most of what u have said though

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 06:26 PM

oi where u get that 2004 remark from im sure ive ssen it somewhere before lol i agree with most of what u have said though

Here, very first post in this thread:

I didn't even plan on signing up for the test server. ----

Leveling is a lot better than it used to be, once you get a job in the 70ish range. ----

Utsumei Ni is still over 1mil. ----

The items are what hurt me the most. ----

IDK anyone with max parrying or max guard skill, let alone both. ----

I know you can't make the real game as easy as the test server but there has to be some kind of happy medium. ----

But ultimatly access to all these things are up to you. IDC how you do it, but if these are all the things one needs to play the game as you intend, then you need to make them easier to get. Even though I've been playing seince 2004 and have multinple 90s, (sarcasim)I'm just an english speaking n00b(/sarcasim) and my ideas are not welcome.

Solonuke

09-08-2011, 07:17 PM

I personally failed to see the point with leveling up when I really didn't want to after the very first FC party I paid for. Not only can I do it AFK and do other things but I also get cruor which I could exchange into gil so I can FC more. I think leveling up at lower levels is very boring and mildly frustrating to solo with a job that's not very solo friendly. Hell if I got an offer to a traditional party I'd turn it down for FC anytime as I already did those traditional parties on two different characters all the way up to level 75/90 several times. So for me FC is a blessing that opens new ways of playing this game without all the work involved. Work can be fun, that's probably why I did it so many times but as time goes on I really don't feel like visiting Qufim Island for the 9000th time to level up a low level job under a level sync.

Leveling up has become very simple as you don't have to find a perfect combination to level up anymore, no need for skillchain, no need for a tank, no need for a refresher, all the monsters you're fighting check "easy prey" for the most part and if they don't, it'll prolly do so for the rest of the people in your alliance. When I level up with someone that does 2-3x more damage than I do, I pretty much lose interest in working hard since they're already doing most of the job. No real need for a healer when you fight EP mobs that chips off 10 damage off you on every hit either. So the part that made leveling up interesting for me isn't there anymore so I prefer just to blast through the levels, which brings me to skilling up.

Skilling up is probably one of the biggest waste of time you can do on this game. It's pretty imbalanced too when you compare skill up to different weapons. Dagger and scythe both have the same probability to skill up, but dagger is a lot faster than a scythe so you end up spending more time skilling up on latter one. Skilling up becomes faster if you get access to double attack, haste and those occasionally attacks x times weapons, yet all of that just is a pushover when you compare it to warrior's job ability retaliation. Go inside Abyssea, get regen atmas, put on pdt gear and hold a ton of mandragoras in front of you with retaliation on. Never have I skilled up a weapon faster! Retaliation is like Counter, except that you still take hits but hits from retaliation counts as skill up. I've recorded that I once hit 5 times per second as a result. It took me 8 hours to go from 200 to 300 on club. You can self skill chain too even if you're alone and that you have enough mobs and pdt to keep yourself alive making those weapon skill trials much faster. Unlocking polearm of trials took less than half an hour thanks to this. It's just a shame that no other jobs in the game can skill up as fast as warrior. I'd like to see my drk skill up just as fast. :(

The worst part of skilling up is probably the magic you throw on yourself or others such as enhancing magic or healing magic. I think neither of those skills levels up at all after a certain point, I could heal for hours on WHM and see one 0.1 skill up while my warrior is getting 10+ levels in weapons. Even parrying levels up faster than healing magic which I find incredibly infuriating. The only way I can skill up healing and enhancing on is to cheat like it was FF2. Nuking undead mobs with healing magic makes healing magic actually level and spamming protect on generals in besieged makes enhancing magic skill up. I fail to see why especially these skills have to be so time consuming to level up, isn't it enough that spells resist with capped magic? The best way I could think about leveling up those skills would be to go AFK with a bot running in the background so you don't have to do it manually. I'm very sure all of this is somewhat true to summoning magic or at least I know someone who leveled it up while botting.

Those two things are my main gripe with the game at the moment, jobs I don't feel like leveling up and skills I especially don't feel like doing. They made leveling up a million times faster but skilling up still takes forever. Why does skilling up have to be such a huge and monotonous grind? If I was in control, all the skills should be in blue.

noodles355

09-08-2011, 07:21 PM

What's borring is trying to skill up for days and not getting any.Suck less. Skilling up is easy. Or did I imagine skilling up Gaxe from 120 to 300ish as a WAR90 in two evenings?

The more you post, the more you sound like an absolutely terrible player.

Vortex

09-08-2011, 07:31 PM

Neonii

09-08-2011, 08:34 PM

Playing an MMO or RPG is about lots of work to accomplsh things, that's the whole point. For players that have yet to accomplish much in the real game it's like being let run loose in a candy store, for normal players it's nothing special.

I wouldn't worry too much about the test server, they will probably close it after the update goes live.

It's not about not wanting to do work its more about opportunity.

Edit: So the question would be does the test server really paint a picture of how it is for the average person without all the best of everything? Maybe they should test things two ways with the best of everything and as the average player.

Zarchery

09-08-2011, 08:56 PM

I didn't read the entire original post, but the gist I got was "Final Fantasy 11 is too boring for me to play, I wish it came pre-played like the test version." I'm guessing that if the OP could, he'd take all his food intravenously so that he could get all the necessary nutrients to sustain life without all that pesky preparing, chewing, and swallowing of food.

Zarchery

09-08-2011, 09:00 PM

Also, levelling is ridiculously easy. I took 12 jobs to level 30 (for the job emote). Each one took me a grand total of maybe 10 hours. After that, you could look for leeching opportunities, although I don't personally condone this, it's an option.

You can get from 1 to 90 in a week. It used to take several months. There has been compromise on the level grind; they've basically gotten rid of it.

That's the problem with making things easier; you won't please everyone. They'll demand that it become even easier.

noodles355

09-08-2011, 09:41 PM

Wait what? The test server is just quests/abilities/items etc to make sure they're not bugged and don't cause a conflict with something else so that they can fix it before implamentaion to negate the need for several emergancy maints, and also to gove the community a chance to test new ideas and give feedback.

Quite why it matters what sort of equipment or means of leveling or anything else you have, I don't know. It doesn't mean a thing if you have every single relic weapon in the game, or use the cheapest thing in the H with full perle/aurore/teal. It's there for getting feedback on new additions and testing for bugs.

Rosina

09-08-2011, 10:26 PM

Rosina

09-08-2011, 10:28 PM

Oyh btw This was an issue with Aion people played the test server more then the game. XD

Lynchilles

09-08-2011, 11:21 PM

Tamoa

09-08-2011, 11:47 PM

Kinda dumb people refer leveling to grinding now a days. Games are meant to be played over time, not beaten in a day. More so with mmorpg where the older it gets more stuff there is, so the longer you play the mmo more stuff you see. Rushing levels is an mmorpg is a bad thing, that makes content (which is fun) obsolete. Where as long as newbies join the game there is still a reason to do the content. I think most ppl here got a bit of a warped concept of playing games. Or a warped concept of reward. pretty much you can get all jobs maxed in 2 mnths w/o buying a single peice of gear and having very poor skill levels. Then another mnth to get all emperyn AF for all those jobs. ok so what the heck is the point in doing 5% of the game? Why even waste money at that point. No one plays the game as intended anymore all they do is get 90 and af3. Maybe rank 5 in a nation. As they do not see a point in doing much else.

I don't think you read the OP's post or the replies - if you did, you didn't understand them.

People refer to exping in old-style exp parties as grinding. And it was. For some jobs it was a long, painful grind, waiting hours for an invite. These days we have a lot more options on HOW to exp a job.

Games are meant to be played over time, not beaten in a day.

That is more or less exactly what the majority of people posting in this thread is saying, myself included. It's all about setting goals for yourself, accomplish things - whether it's finishing a mission line, level crafts, make an empyrean/relic/mythic weapon, get all jobs to max level, get that one piece of gear (or more) that you really want, and so on.

If everything was handed to us without any effort, I'm certain almost none of us would have been playing this game for more than a couple of months, tops.

No one plays the game as intended anymore all they do is get 90 and af3.

As intended? Wasn't the intention of this game always to level up, and for a very large portion of the player base it was also about doing high level content and getting specific equipment pieces for their job. Or, simply to have fun. And different people find different things fun.

Kensagaku

09-08-2011, 11:51 PM

Now, now, let's not start a flamefest against each other. She's gonna put her back up from a single insult, people are going to reply back, and the thread is going to get locked. The usual process, etc etc.

Rosina, in response to your statement - I have to heavily disagree. To me, grinding is absolutely boring. For a new player, it's fun and it's fascinating, learning the ins and outs of new jobs and areas of the game you haven't explored often. I know when I was leveling DRG in ToAU parties, my first job, I was ecstatic for every level I got. My BLU, though it had to be leveled solo, was fun because I got to visit new areas hunting spells and go to some of the BLM pet camps for fast solo EXP. It was worth it because at that time, everything was new to me and wonderful.

But now it's boring. You do something enough, it gets boring. I did the Qufim/Yuhtunga/CN/GC/ToAU grind often enough to absolutely hate it. I never want to level that way again, especially when people cannot listen in a party to work with general tactics. For example, in an old party at 30+ where you had a THF, you'd get a primary Provoker, have them Provoke the mob, while the tank and THF go behind and the tank gets SATA'd for firm hate holding. But then you'd get people who wouldn't provoke, or who wouldn't go behind the mob, or who would move the mob without warning or would go AFK. People were a pain to deal with in slower EXP at times because to them, the game was "throw bodies at it." Many of these people do not change as they level; the grind does nothing for them. All it does is bore me and slow me from reaching levels where I can do relevant, interesting content.

I leveled DRG, BLU, RDM, THF, BST, BRD, and SMN the old-fashioned way. Some of them provided me with unique solo routes because they wouldn't get parties, others were party magnets. But never again do I want to take the slow path that teaches me nothing. Most jobs can have their basics learned fairly quickly by anyone, and the more advanced stuff can only truly be learned/mastered by facing against difficult content rather than squishy EXP mobs. In short, the only advantage grinding has is CP/Standing depending on where you grind. I for one welcome the faster EXP of Abyssea so I can get to actual relevant content.

Mirage

09-08-2011, 11:57 PM

Suck less. Skilling up is easy. Or did I imagine skilling up Gaxe from 120 to 300ish as a WAR90 in two evenings?

The more you post, the more you sound like an absolutely terrible player.
To be fair, he was mostly complaining about healing magic skillups, while saying weapon skillups were a lot faster. Healing and enhancing really is terribly slow.

Rearden

09-08-2011, 11:58 PM

My goal is to be the very best, like no one ever was.

To beat the game is my real test, acting childish without pause.

I will travel across the land, leeching far and wide.

I won't cast haste or swap my gear, with my playstyle you will abide.

Rosina, it's you and me. I know it is my destiny.

Rosina, oh you're my best friend. It's this world of Vana d'iel we must defend.

Rosina, a heart so true, only our courage will pull us through.

Kimara

09-09-2011, 12:00 AM

Aver

09-09-2011, 12:02 AM

Uh oh, Rosina posted.

Ibtnuke

Modoru

09-09-2011, 02:05 AM

Leveling is a lot better than it used to be, once you get a job in the 70ish range. But getting to that point? Impossible w/o paying someone for a FC PT or spending weeks trying to grind to that point. Even then, trying to get to 30 is a time consuming endeavor. Of all the things I plan on mentioning, this is the esiest, but it's still too time consuming and distracts from making actual progress in the game. Especially, for example, when BLMs are required to take up BRD just to proc.
Wrong. Getting a job to 30 is ridiculously easy with Grounds Tome. GoV makes leveling really fast. As for 30-90, you obviously haven't met the large amount of people who have leeched their jobs to 90 in a few hours, maybe a few days, per job.

Utsusemi Ni is still over 1mil. That is the most agregious example but there are still plenty of ones like Raise 3, Phalanx, and High tier / procing BLM spells. Where are we supposed to get the gil for all of this?

The items are what hurt me the most. There is no way to get any of them unless you con a LS in to getting them for you. There are jobs like PLD, SMN and RDM that require these items to even be playable. No LS or person is going to help you get anything they want for themselves. Then there are consumable items that are so expensive I can't even level NIN or RNG for a main and I haven't even touched PUP just because I can't afford the expense to even try it.
Either you have no friends, or your LS is filled by a bunch of selfish dicks. I just can't fathom another example. Sure, a few select spells are expensive, but with abyssea and usually unused dom points, you can make a mill easily after ONE lengthy party [which, HEY, you can get from leeching or generally partying in abyssea!]
NIN is not as expensive to level any more, as far as consumables go, because shihei are cheap per stack [4k/stack in siren, eg.] and you no longer need spell-specific tools other than Shihei [Utsusemi], Sanjuku-Tenugui [monomi] and Shinobi-Tabi [tonko].
As for RNG, it's still slightly expensive, sure, but only if you're buying the most expensive arrows or something of the sort, because generally you can last on RNG with lower-level arrows [Scorpion arrows, beetle arrows? last for a while.]

As for getting people to help: As I said before; you either have no friends, or your LS is a bag of dicks... or you have no LS. Even then, you can ALWAYS find someone here and there to be helpful and try to assist you in obtaining certain things, so long as you allow yourself to do the same for them. Otherwise, you're just being selfish and your argument is "waah, why don't I have people to do whatever I want on a whim, with no reward to them?".

Oh, and farming for gil is not hard at all. Elshena/Saltena/Pitaru ingredients are easy to find and easy to farm. Look into it.

IDK anyone with max parrying or max guard skill, let alone both. I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD. The mobs are either too weak and will give no skill ups or too tough and won't give skill ups. I have sience given up.
Again, with abyssea, a lot of people [mostly WAR] have dedicated their time to skilling up their weapons and unlocking trial WS [at least 10 people on my friendslist have done so on separate occasions, I've helped them for Light/Dark SC.] As for Parry/Guard, most people haven't gotten it, but it's also hard as hell to get anyway.

I know you can't make the real game as easy as the test server but there has to be some kind of happy medium. Most of this could be fixed by making it easier for people who need a PT to find each other or giving multiple drops for PTs that all want the same thing. I had an idea for this that went ignored.

[x] ..."/sea all inv X-Y", and furthermore, "/seacom"

But ultimatly access to all these things are up to you. IDC how you do it, but if these are all the things one needs to play the game as you intend, then you need to make them easier to get. Even though I've been playing seince 2004 and have multinple 90s, (sarcasim)I'm just an english speaking n00b(/sarcasim) and my ideas are not welcome.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/Inafking/dev.jpg
These things aren't required, and I've explained why in each one. This game doesn't need to be easier, nor "harder". It's fine as is.

Modoru

09-09-2011, 02:08 AM

No one plays the game as intended anymore all they do is get 90 and af3. Maybe rank 5 in a nation. As they do not see a point in doing much else.

You also forgot CoP/ToAU/ZM/WotG. All of which people need to do if they want Salvage, Temenos, Sky, Sea and such.

Kari

09-09-2011, 02:10 AM

Mookies75

09-09-2011, 02:34 AM

Sorry OP. I tried to read your post, but it became extremely apparent halfway through that you're a moron.

Soranika

09-09-2011, 03:45 AM

Seriously..... you know, I remember when 10-12k exp per hour was the best thing since a loaf of bread and exp rings actually made leveling faster and people actually play their jobs "kinda" like it was suppose to.
All the recent changes HAVE made it more accessible for "casual" players yet while still having things out there for those who are hardcore, like crafting remaining relatively unchanged, adding new battle fields and voidwatch.

Babekeke

09-09-2011, 04:21 AM

[QUOTE=Inafking;191619I also have trouble believeing anyone has taken a wep not native to their main job past 200. I tried for days to get past 200 with staff, club, dagger, polearm and greatsword with my PLD. The mobs are either too weak and will give no skill ups or too tough and won't give skill ups. I have sience given up.[/QUOTE]

Leech war to 90, put your perle on and go to the boyahda tree with /dnc45 with a low level (preferably with +acc) weapon of every type, acc food or skillup food, try for martial master when it's available. Leave when you hit 250 on everything and head to aby and grab some mnk mobs with regen atmas on (and a rdm friend wiuth 5/5 phaslanx 2 if you have 1).

Oh look, all of your weapons are capped (apart from katana and GK). Doesn't take long to unlock all of the quested WS either (took me 2 hours to help a friend with retribution from him activating quest, to him unlocking the WS. That includes chocoing from tahrongi twice. I was on rdm and didn't melee at all to make SCs for him, he had no trouble making level 2 solo).

Catsby

09-09-2011, 04:40 AM

The OP's asshurt is palpable.

Nothing in FFXI is difficult if you are capable joining a linkshell and even less if you are capable of making friends.

I love the parts of the thread where people use "test server" and "fun" in the same post though. I literally started laughing when I read some of them. People actually think that test servers are there so they can get a special sneak peeks/preview of the next update(hilarious!).

No.Your ass is there to do QA work and help stop broken and boring features from making into release. Pick any of the previous updates and there is bound to be something broken either functionally (discoids suddenly doing 10k damage) or fundamentally(evolith's not having a purpose). The test server was opened to lessen the chances of that happening.

Sira

09-09-2011, 04:59 AM

Tsukino_Kaji

09-09-2011, 05:14 AM

The test server is more fun than the real game.Just think of all that fun you'll be having after the updates when there's nothing to test.

Yarly

09-09-2011, 05:36 AM

whats a test server anyway and how i connect to it

Scribble

09-09-2011, 06:27 AM

Why on earth would a ninja use shihei unless they're soloing or in a lowman group against something that actually poses a threat?

If you are casting you ain't bashing! Less powder, more pounder!

That's all I got =/

Inafking

09-09-2011, 10:34 AM

Just think of all that fun you'll be having after the updates when there's nothing to test.

I'm hoping all of this gets me banned from the forums so I can't re aply to test server, get bored with retail and kick my FFXI addiction for good. But no content to test would be just as good a solution. I've tried working with the players, I've tried making suguestions to the devs, once it sinks in that no one gives a shit and I'll never get where I want to be it will be easier to move on. Especially now that I've been to the mountain top and seen how cool it is.

Urteil

09-09-2011, 10:59 AM

Modoru

09-09-2011, 11:18 AM

You didn't even bother reading why your argument is very loose and, as much as I don't want to say it, wrong; did you?

Solonuke

09-09-2011, 10:35 PM

I'm hoping all of this gets me banned from the forums so I can't re aply to test server, get bored with retail and kick my FFXI addiction for good. But no content to test would be just as good a solution. I've tried working with the players, I've tried making suguestions to the devs, once it sinks in that no one gives a shit and I'll never get where I want to be it will be easier to move on. Especially now that I've been to the mountain top and seen how cool it is.

One of the reasons why I like this game is that it's always a work in progress. There are things I don't like about that system, but then again I love to hate such things. Starting on top of the mountain once you enter the test server for me feels like I'm playing a different character. Like I'm looking at one person's work. While I think it's cool to look at other people's work I know that I really like to create something on my own. This game is filled with unreasonable challenges and ridiculous price tags on items you know you can't work without, but that's part of the charm I guess.

I get the idea that the devs do use the feedback they get from players, but there's only so much feedback they can get so they try to get the most important stuff out of the way. From FFXIAH's number of characters there's currently 300k active subscriptions, that's 300k potentional persons they can get feedback from and that's quite the intimidating number. Bully is revised like 3 times already, that's 3 times more than any other job ability would get over a such short time and it's not even out yet.

Runespider

09-09-2011, 11:15 PM

Deadvinta

09-10-2011, 01:15 AM

OP: I've got a game that will satisfy your needs. It's called WoW. Nowadays, there are no skill ups, rarer armor drops more frequently, and all exp is basically handed to you on a silver platter. When I opened up my account again, it took me 3-4 days (with my inexperience at playing the game in general) to level from 1 to 55.

There is your solution, sir.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

09-10-2011, 01:21 AM

You also forgot CoP/ToAU/ZM/WotG. All of which people need to do if they want Salvage, Temenos, Sky, Sea and such.

All stuff that has a very low reward-to-investment ratio nowadays, both relative to Abyssea and in absolute terms.

Deadvinta

09-10-2011, 01:23 AM

Also, even though it isn't what the test server was intended for, I used it as a preview to certain builds I wanted to try out. It helped me narrow down what I want to work for in the future.

I'm going to drop red mage (for now), forgo my plans of leveling blue mage (tooooo maaaannnnyyyy speeeellllssss), and instead pick up Corsair and get my Dancer a Daka +2 (Being able to do 1500 damage OUTSIDE ABYSSEA with 100 TP made me happy, after all the time I've spent mocking the weapon). Instead of finding fun in the test server, use it as A TEST SERVER.

Modoru

09-10-2011, 01:35 AM

All stuff that has a very low reward-to-investment ratio nowadays, both relative to Abyssea and in absolute terms.

Depends, people still desire certain items, Suppa, Ethereal, Rajas ring, Tamas ring, not to mention people also desire the Atma of the Ultimate from proto-ultima, if I'm not mistaken...

cidbahamut

09-10-2011, 01:41 AM

Tamas ring

No. No no no no no.

Modoru

09-10-2011, 01:57 AM

No. No no no no no.

Just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't~.

That said, I obviously don't. I was just listing end-of-storyline rewards.

Mirage

09-10-2011, 02:01 AM

No. No no no no no.

Maybe if you have 0 melee characters. If not, I agree with cidbahamut.

cidbahamut

09-10-2011, 02:08 AM

katz

09-10-2011, 02:26 AM

Happy medium is what FFXI is now. I remember when it took a week to get from 74 to 75, exp is way too easy now. "You get soo many players saying "Im bored cos I dont have any imagination" I was talking to an ex player about skillchains, something that seems long gone (Please SE make some skillchain trials to make people party again lol or better still make it part of getting a limit break)(joking incase someone thinks its serious cos I know some certain tinhat persons would believe it) Suddenly the rush of exp to get a level 90 job doesnt really seem worth the loss of game play that we used to have. Were are all the skills in making parties gone, dont need any of those any more. Chains of 230 mobs were not unheard of. This madness of abyssea has lost something and I dont know how we get it back.

katz

09-10-2011, 02:36 AM

Anyone who wants a raise 3 can buy me the spell. Why would I waste a million on something that isnt useful for me. Now a million on Ni...hmm Id think about it, then go duo the bcnm to get one or two or three lol

Edit post original
Ah Ijust remembered why the lazy people dont do BCNMs, Abyssea dont drop beastmen seals.

Deadvinta

09-10-2011, 03:34 AM

Ah Ijust remembered why the lazy people dont do BCNMs, Abyssea dont drop beastmen seals.

Not a good excuse for them now-a-days either. Kindred Crests can be traded in for beastman seals!

Solonuke

09-10-2011, 09:22 AM

Not a good excuse for them now-a-days either. Kindred Crests can be traded in for beastman seals!

I don't know about you, but a lot of people seem to prefer Royal Jelly, Under Observation or Up In Arms. All of which I've done a ton of times before and no longer poses as a challenge for me so I prefer doing something else and I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling like that. I think it's stuff like that, long traveling to the BCNM and low drop rates are keeping the pricetag on Ni so high. As for Raise III I have no clue why that spell isn't cheaper as it means less than Ni and can be soloed, maybe it's because of the weight switchs in Quicksand Caves that are keeping it at that level.

Soranika

09-10-2011, 09:48 AM

No. No no no no no.

Three mage jobs, one melee job.... my choice was obvious. I got a tamas ring and never looked back.
There's a lot more useful rings for melee job than mages I fine. At least the ones I play. I absolutely detest HP to MP gear. Only reason I own a bifrost ring is because some one gave to me for WHM.

detlef

09-10-2011, 09:58 AM

Tamas Ring was certainly lovely when stat rings only went up to 5. And even up to the point where +6 stat rings were added. But... I think the ring's time has passed since it's not really a space saver anymore because there are many superior options out there.

Neisan_Quetz

09-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Three mage jobs, one melee job.... my choice was obvious. I got a tamas ring and never looked back.
There's a lot more useful rings for melee job than mages I fine. At least the ones I play. I absolutely detest HP to MP gear. Only reason I own a bifrost ring is because some one gave to me for WHM.

Rajas does more for ... pretty much every melee in some way than tamas will ever do for 3 mages. This was true at 75 cap, still true at 90 cap.

cidbahamut

09-10-2011, 12:49 PM

Tamas is rubbish. Tamas was always rubbish. Rajas is just about surgically attached to your finger if you're swinging a weapon.

You made a poor decision.

Deadvinta

09-10-2011, 05:09 PM

Rajas really isn't as good as people make it out to be. Only 2~5 Dex and Str. Subtle blow can kiss my ass for accuracy buffs or damage buffs, and store tp should never be enough of an issue if you're meleeing correctly. Especially as a dancer or thief or anything else that unrelentingly pounds on a target.

That being said, I would use it on Samurai, if I used it as more than a sub job.

Rearden

09-10-2011, 05:36 PM

Except 5STR and 5DEX in a ring slot does more for you than 7DEX or 7STR in the same slot in nearly every imaginable situation on every imaginable melee job without even beginning to look at STP.

Runespider

09-10-2011, 06:37 PM

Except 5STR and 5DEX in a ring slot does more for you than 7DEX or 7STR in the same slot in nearly every imaginable situation on every imaginable melee job without even beginning to look at STP.

Rajas is an awesome ring, considering the vast majority of melee players gear is horrible though it doesn't make that much difference on its own though really. The ring for many is purely (or was) a status item for showing completion of CoP, so which job you use the most is the ring I would get.

Regardless you can swap and change every week now so doesn't matter which you pick, I went with tamas and was happy with it for years then went more melee and picked up a rajas due to store TP builds.

Vortex

09-10-2011, 06:46 PM

Oh god, not this crap again, i thought this died years ago. with the rajas vs tamas argument. tamas was "decent" at 75 if your only jobs were mages and you never played a meele job.

Rajas ring is best ring for anyone who actually swings a weapon. this is not debatable, ever. if a whm has a club out, and has an actual meele set, it will include a rajas, if you swing a weapon, rajas should be equiped, i cannot belive i am seeing this crap again. hopefully that took care of any further concerns.

if you do not understand the importence of store tp and subtle blow over, ( not even mentioning str and dex because that is self explanitory) let's face it, tamas stats aren't even worth mentioning because all of it is useless.

Laraul

09-10-2011, 07:26 PM

Hey... Tamas is just fine... you don't need anything if you don't want it... you may think the Rajas is better... doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Mirage

09-10-2011, 08:31 PM

ITT: Buyer's remorse.

Urteil

09-10-2011, 09:26 PM

Hey... Tamas is just fine... you don't need anything if you don't want it... you may think the Rajas is better... doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahhahahaha.

Vortex

09-10-2011, 10:08 PM

Hey... Tamas is just fine... you don't need anything if you don't want it... you may think the Rajas is better... doesn't mean everyone else has to.

......Urge to killl....rising....

MarkovChain

09-10-2011, 10:22 PM

Except 5STR and 5DEX in a ring slot does more for you than 7DEX or 7STR in the same slot in nearly every imaginable situation on every imaginable melee job without even beginning to look at STP.

Because aneiros annulet and ring don't exist. LolBG. The truth is store TP is pretty useless nowadays. You spend your time turning your back until stuff procs...

Vortex

09-10-2011, 10:30 PM

Because aneiros annulet and ring don't exist. LolBG. The truth is store TP is pretty useless nowadays. You spend your time turning your back until stuff procs...

o_o.......breath...........breath....."inhales" ok.....no i can't do it i can't i';m backing out of this one. untill the rage subsides.

Tamoa

09-10-2011, 10:35 PM

Because aneiros annulet and ring don't exist. LolBG. The truth is store TP is pretty useless nowadays. You spend your time turning your back until stuff procs...

Oneiros Annulet? How is a ring with -5 agi and +9 acc comparable with Rajas Ring? And how is Oneiros Ring comparable to Rajas Ring? Acc is hardly an issue these days, certainly not in abyssea. Oneiros Ring is useless unless you have at least 10 mp merits or sub a mage job. Oh it has +3 acc, woo-hoo?

Edit: funny how this thread went from test server v/s real game, to Rajas v/s Tamas, lol.

Karbuncle

09-10-2011, 10:36 PM

Pchan doesn't even believe the crap he spews. He's just still angry he was banned from BG so now he attacks BG Anyway he can, even if it means making himself look bad. He'll disagree with anything anyone from BG says just because he hates BG.

If someone from BG came and said "STR adds attack" he would immediately go on a tangent on how it clearly adds Evasion as it gives you the STR of heart to dodge attacks, immediately followed by lolBG.

I recall the Episode of Scrubs where Dr. Kelso showed the students how Dr.cox would disagree with him no matter what he said.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWh45qp3qxc Skip to 40 to know what im talking about.

Tamoa

09-10-2011, 10:42 PM

Oh idk, I clearly use Rajas for the acc it offers. :D

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

09-10-2011, 10:46 PM

Sattva represent!

Vortex

09-10-2011, 10:50 PM

Sattva represent!

Yes, clearly, according to him we probably should just toss our rajas and go ahead and get a sattva ring instead, because while we are turned around the AGI will help us evade more, and more HP? who wouldn't pick this ring.

Edit: funny how this thread went from test server v/s real game, to Rajas v/s Tamas, lol.

It happens every single time rajas and tamas is mentioned.

there will always be dumb asses who defend and think tamas is useful, it will never end.

Aver

09-10-2011, 10:53 PM

Because aneiros annulet and ring don't exist. LolBG. The truth is store TP is pretty useless nowadays. You spend your time turning your back until stuff procs...

Everytime you post, I sense the entire world collectively losing IQ. It's as if billions of neurons cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Please, forget how to use the internet or something for a few years, let us get back on our feet before you brain-drain us some more.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

09-10-2011, 11:07 PM

Hmmm...

In before lock.

Soranika

09-10-2011, 11:11 PM

Wow... there's even a debate long lost debate over Tamas vs Rajas ring? Jesus... I didn't mean to incite this shenanigans. My personal preference swung towards the Tamas ring. I have enough subtle blow gear for my DNC as it stands and TP gain is is fast enough not to worry about store TP now*. People say the same about the the useless of additional MP or the other stats on the Tamas ring but whatever.

*But of course I say a mage can never have to much MP, just like I'm sure some of you will say a melee can never have to much subtle blow. Personal preferences... do they no longer exists without being judged?

cidbahamut

09-10-2011, 11:19 PM

Did you really just reference the MP+ on Tamas Ring as a selling point?

Soranika

09-10-2011, 11:24 PM

Vortex

09-10-2011, 11:28 PM

No. Put I put MP as a high priority to me when I'm on SMN, my main job. Next to refresh gear and Pet MAB. That's what I use it for. I don't care what others use their rings for.

At the end of the day, I don't take well to people forcing their ideals of what's great and what's useless down my throat as if the difference is that vast between the two that it'll make or break the way I play the game. Let it stop here if you're going to start saying stuff to me specifically about it.

........ .... .....

try an augumented dark ring, if MP is really the only reason you use that ring on SMN dark ring has 20 mp ( this is of course assuming you have an augumented one) and a dark ring can have - pdt, mdt spell intteruption, enemy critical hit rate. just a thought...

Soranika

09-10-2011, 11:31 PM

........ .... .....Oh and you and your stunned silence. I STILL refuse to use SCH as a subjob to WHM. Does that still make me a bad WHM who don't know how to play the job?

Vortex

09-10-2011, 11:32 PM

Oh and you and your stunned silence. I STILL refuse to use SCH as a subjob to WHM. Does that still make me a bad WHM who don't know how to play the job?

The fact you defend a tamas pretty much showed me all i needed to know and as to why you refuse to sub it, so thank you, i think i got the awnser i was looking for.

i also edited the post.

MarkovChain

09-10-2011, 11:46 PM

Vortex

09-10-2011, 11:51 PM

Nothing is better than 9 acc if you need acc ; we are left to 5 store TP, 5 str 5 dex. 5 dex equal to 0.5 critical hitrate or 0.25% damage increase since it applie to melee only. 5 str is 2 attack and 1 fstr, so respectively 1% and 0.5% boost to melee dot, so 0.5% and 0.25% increase globally respectively. Store tp+5 for one handed DD is at best 5% increase to WS frequency so +2.5% damage up. So rajas is approximately = 3.5% damage increase girls.

Oneiros ring is about 4% because it's 2% TA. Trophy items < maths.

Notices how in the most favorable scenario (+1 fstr some +crit) rajas fails ? On mnk I highly doubt you don't cap fstr with level 90 vere, and seeing the piss poor amount of dex you get, you get zero crit either so yeah, the different is even bigger. Coombine this with the fact that proc system makes it so that you rarely ever tp as soon as you get TP...

Oneiros Ring
[Ring] All Races
Accuracy+3 Latent Effect: "Triple Attack"+2%
Lv. 88 WAR MNK THF BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG COR PUP DNC

Latent effect: "Triple Attack+2%"

Active when MP is greater than 100. Verification Needed

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"

Soranika

09-10-2011, 11:59 PM

Oneiros Ring
[Ring] All Races
Accuracy+3 Latent Effect: "Triple Attack"+2%
Lv. 88 WAR MNK THF BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG COR PUP DNC

Latent effect: "Triple Attack+2%"

Active when MP is greater than 100. Verification Needed

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 12:04 AM

Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

You are definatly full of surprises. Just when i think you have told me everything, you keep bringing me gold.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 12:08 AM

You are definatly full of surprises. Just when i think you have told me everything, you keep bringing me gold.
Why, cause I play mostly mage jobs with more use for MP for a long time now and only DNC as a melee job?

Didn't choice of play style and equipment was treated like a religion or politics.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 12:10 AM

Why, cause I play mostly mage jobs with more use for MP for a long time now and only DNC as a melee job?

Didn't choice of play style and equipment was treated like a religion or politics.

Yea, that must be it. let's go with that n_n

Elexia

09-11-2011, 12:12 AM

If you ever, ever, intend to hit something with a weapon, you choose Rajas Ring. Tamas Ring does nothing for you other than free up an inventory slot which you should be filling with a superior ring anyway.

Just like you choose a Suppa even if you don't use a dual wield job? Seriously, this mentality is why MMORPGs have been going the casual route.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 12:15 AM

Yea, that must be it. let's go with that n_n
Your patronizing is staggering. ~_~

Neisan_Quetz

09-11-2011, 12:15 AM

Just like you choose a Suppa even if you don't use a dual wield job? Seriously, this mentality is why MMORPGs have been going the casual route.

What, they aren't even the same thing. If you have a Dual wield job you even use some of the time you pick Suppa. If you don't well enjoy w/e earring you damn well like.

Elexia

09-11-2011, 12:22 AM

enjoy w/e (insert) you damn well like.

This is what an MMORPG is about which is exactly why MMOs are going the casual route to kill the whole "omg you better be this efficient or gtfo!" mentality.

There's nothing wrong with choosing a tamas if 90% of your jobs is of the mage variety. You decide to use your only DD job? This is why sidegrades and alternatives exist in these kinds of games (which XI is full of, by the way.) Why should one choose something that only benefits 1/12 jobs they likely play?

Vortex

09-11-2011, 12:23 AM

Your patronizing is staggering. ~_~

It's like trying teach somone how to bounce a ball, you tell them the proper way to do it is to push the ball down and let it come back up to your hand and push it back down, it's a simple, and understandable concept. but they keep kicking the ball foward, and they tell you "well it moves faster this way" this method clearly is not effective to anyone but them in thier mind, even tho everyone around this person is telling them that it's not the proper way to bounce it, and what you're doing is not effective in any way, but they keep kicking it..

at that point you do 2 things, you let them keep kicking the ball and give up? or you smile at them and give them a lolipop saying "have fun"

this is my way of telling you in a very subtle way.

Neisan_Quetz

09-11-2011, 12:24 AM

Modoru

09-11-2011, 12:29 AM

Because if you were serious about meleeing Rajas would do more for you than Tamas ever will. Not to mention your figures are impossible since I only recognize 5 mage jobs. 75% of my jobs are mages and Rajas is still better than Tamas (granted one is BLU).

Doesn't really count, since BLU makes use of both fighting + casting to maximize its potential. As well, I don't think regular mage jobs have physical spells.

Also, I only mentioned End-of-Storyline rewards, why did y'all have to get so.... butthurt?
It's in no way relevant to the thread topic, so what do you say we fix that?

Elexia

09-11-2011, 12:31 AM

Because if you were serious about meleeing Rajas would do more for you than Tamas ever will. Not to mention your figures are impossible since I only recognize 5 mage jobs. 75% of my jobs are mages and Rajas is still better than Tamas (granted one is BLU).

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

Soranika

09-11-2011, 12:31 AM

It's like trying teach somone how to bounce a ball, you tell them the proper way to do it is to push the ball down and let it come back up to your hand and push it back down, it's a simple, and understandable concept. but they keep kicking the ball foward, and they tell you "well it moves faster this way" this method clearly is not effective to anyone but them in thier mind, even tho everyone around this person is telling them that it's not the proper way to bounce it, and what you're doing is not effective in any way, but they keep kicking it..

at that point you do 2 things, you let them keep kicking the ball and give up? or you smile at them and give them a lolipop saying "have fun"

this is my way of telling you in a very subtle way.
The... hell? What I read out of that poor analogy is you saying "This is how you play basketball" but me going "I want to play soccer." That's what I got out of it. There's more than one way of playing a job through the game. There's more than one equipment that has certain benefits that tailors to the choice of playing style a person wants. Not to mention there's still the inevitable pros AND cons to choices that does not put one over the other persay.

You're basically taking a dump on diversity even though the diversity isn't all that greater than the other in contrast.

Elexia

09-11-2011, 12:35 AM

I remember when MMORPGs were about having fun..I guess that's why Rift got popular, it may be a shitty blatant clone of WoW, but it's fun nonetheless.

Sparthos

09-11-2011, 12:35 AM

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

She has WAR and Tamas can be easily replaced via AH options. You can't replace a Rajas (the STR/DEX/STP and SB rolled into one ring is one of a kind).

Tamoa

09-11-2011, 12:39 AM

Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

Epona's Ring:
All Races
"Double Attack"+3% "Triple Attack"+3%
LV 89 MNK THF BST RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC

If my war, drk, sam or drg could equip it, rest assured I would be using it. Together with Rajas.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 12:40 AM

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"

Is this your way to admit that oneiros is better than rajas when you have 100 MP ? I'm not sure. Please enlighten us. Getting 100 MP is pretty easy, for instance MP merits (which half the players have). Now if you are the kind of person that doesn't want to push his char to the limit, why are you even arguing ? The question is not if rajas is the best ring for TPing out of the rings that vortex can afford ; the question is a general question about "is rajas the best". No it is not. Simple. It has shiny stats but tripple attack is also great.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 12:41 AM

She has WAR and Tamas can be easily replaced via AH options. You can't replace a Rajas (the STR/DEX/STP and SB rolled into one ring is one of a kind).
You missed the part where she said WHM main... where MND +5 and Enmity -3 would be more useful to the job used the most. Being WHM main and the frequent of WHM use in parties, I'm sure she's on WHM A LOT more than WAR.

If you want to determine how useful it really is, look at what they spend the most time on and be as effective in that area as possible.

cidbahamut

09-11-2011, 12:42 AM

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

Yup. Icesoul Ring, Aquasoul Ring, countless MP+ Rings, and even Enmity- rings. All available on the AH, all better than Tamas Ring.

Rajas gives you a package of stats that all get used simultaneously to great effect. Tamas saves you an inventory slot or two. Rajas is the better option. Every time.

Monchat

09-11-2011, 12:44 AM

open your mind. MP merit, what is it? the difference is too small for me to bother getting oneiros ring and MP merits, imo, but the fact is it is better period. Whether you're ready to get MP merit or not is up to you. Personally I wont bother. And yea as mentioned several times, for dualwielders, and MNKs, the 5 STP has taken a serious hit since the introduction of all the multi hit gears. Why? since people dont seem to graps game mechanics on here, ill explaine: high multi ht rate means that in one delay period, you can do up to 7 hits. Consequently you will very often have over tp ( tp not at 100 but 120, say0. This makes 5stp almost useless.

Im not even talking about abyssea ( nobody cares about epeening your build in abyssea today). No you are not caped accuracy in many WV for example, therefore oneiros annulet> rajas. For 2handers its differrent.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 12:50 AM

The... hell? What I read out of that poor analogy is you saying "This is how you play basketball" but me going "I want to play soccer." That's what I got out of it. There's more than one way of playing a job through the game. There's more than one equipment that has certain benefits that tailors to the choice of playing style a person wants. Not to mention there's still the inevitable pros AND cons to choices that does not put one over the other persay.

You're basically taking a dump on diversity even though the diversity isn't all that greater than the other in contrast.

You didn't get the message, and you just proved you never will, in this case ignorance is bliss. for your sake, we'll just leave it here.

now then..

Tamas is 5 INT 5 MND 30 mp -3 enimity

let's break it down.

5 INT there are rings with 6-7 INT out 1 option is they are buyable, other option is they are free if you are lucky with gold chests, obviously the 6-7 is greater then the 5, so that just made the Stat parts of the ring comeplty useless.

5 MND (see above) actutlly you can't get 6-7 MND rings in a chest but they aren't that expensive. (aqua ring for example)

now with that out of the way let's look at the 30 mp. it's....30 mp.. their are NUMOUROUS rings that give way more then 30 mp and is cheap/easy to get namly bifrost ring. which is 70 mp. now most people with commen sense will realize 30 mp is pretty much useless the moment you cast a spell. unless you plan on standing there and refreshing it back, so that part is out.

The last part the -3 enimity....

seriously? do i even NEED to explain this part? if - enimity is truely that much of an issue troppers ring is -4 enimity and cost like 2k ISP or something. there is also a - 5 enimity ring (altho it has -4 mnd)

so..all those stats are easily replaced with clearly superior choices.

the ONLY reason you would get one is to save space. which is not really a valid reason to pick that ring for inferior stats. as the only useful thing you would get is the -3 enimity and 30 mp.

So really. why exactly is this ring useful?

Neisan_Quetz

09-11-2011, 12:51 AM

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

Yes, it is. My jobs are Rdm (technically main but never on it inside abyssea) Whm and Blu, and Rajas is still better for 3 (don't melee on whm much) of them than Tamas is.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 12:57 AM

5DEX is nearly always .5%~5% critical hit rate, math is fun.

Edit: Also, lol1hweaponsinVW

Sparthos

09-11-2011, 01:00 AM

You missed the part where she said WHM main... where MND +5 and Enmity -3 would be more useful to the job used the most. Being WHM main and the frequent of WHM use in parties, I'm sure she's on WHM A LOT more than WAR.

If you want to determine how useful it really is, look at what they spend the most time on and be as effective in that area as possible.

Even with a WHM main, the Tamas is a poor choice in its current state.

Augmented Dark Rings as your idle rings are a better choice as the combination of PDT/MDT- can be useful in situations where you are forced to eat an AOE or two for the sake of utilizing Misery or putting up Barspells, a combination of MP rings like Bifrost + Serket is better if you want to max MP whore and 6-7MND rings are available and superior for feebs/cures.

All the Tamas does is save slots. The second you delve into DD classes, the Rajas just comes far and away the best choice you can utilize in that slot.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 01:04 AM

Even with a WHM main, the Tamas is a poor choice in its current state.

Augmented Dark Rings as your idle rings are a better choice as the combination of PDT/MDT- can be useful in situations where you are forced to eat an AOE or two for the sake of utilizing Misery or putting up Barspells, a combination of MP rings like Bifrost + Serket is better if you want to max MP whore and 6-7MND rings are available and superior for feebs/cures.

All the Tamas does is save slots. The second you delve into DD classes, the Rajas just comes far and away the best choice you can utilize in that slot.

You're wasting your time trying to explain WHM to this person. it's a battle you won't win.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 01:13 AM

You didn't get the message, and you just proved you never will, in this case ignorance is bliss. for your sake, we'll just leave it here.

now then..

Tamas is 5 INT 5 MND 30 mp -3 enimity

let's break it down.

5 INT there are rings with 6-7 INT out 1 option is they are buyable, other option is they are free if you are lucky with gold chests, obviously the 6-7 is greater then the 5, so that just made the Stat parts of the ring comeplty useless.

5 MND (see above) actutlly you can't get 6-7 MND rings in a chest but they aren't that expensive. (aqua ring for example)

now with that out of the way let's look at the 30 mp. it's....30 mp.. their are NUMOUROUS rings that give way more then 30 mp and is cheap/easy to get namly bifrost ring. which is 70 mp. now most people with commen sense will realize 30 mp is pretty much useless the moment you cast a spell. unless you plan on standing there and refreshing it back, so that part is out.

The last part the -3 enimity....

seriously? do i even NEED to explain this part? if - enimity is truely that much of an issue troppers ring is -4 enimity and cost like 2k ISP or something. there is also a - 5 enimity ring (altho it has -4 mnd)

so..all those stats are easily replaced with clearly superior choices.

the ONLY reason you would get one is to save space. which is not really a valid reason to pick that ring for inferior stats. as the only useful thing you would get is the -3 enimity and 30 mp.

So really. why exactly is this ring useful?
I'll counter with Rajas's break down.

STR +5
For on handed weapons, that only equals 2 ATK. 3 ATK for two handed weapons. Obviously, there are other rings that out classes that.

DEX +5
If you're going for crit damage on a job that doesn't rely on crit or low chance of crit damaging, why bother? ACC is not much of an issue lately if you actually skill up your job. With all the gear swamping and more gear that offers a lot of ACC, it's not as great.

Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Subtle Blow +5
Heed Ring gives STB +7 plus the 3 ACC that the dex would give from rajas. Nevermind the slew of gear in other slots that give STB too, like Toreoro Torque with 9 eva and STB.

Rajas ring is as outdated as Tamas ring at this point.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 01:15 AM

I'll counter with Rajas's break down.

STR +5
For on handed weapons, that only equals 2 ATK. 3 ATK for two handed weapons. Obviously, there are other rings that out classes that.

DEX +5
If you're going for crit damage, ACC is not much of an issue lately if you actually skill up your job. With all the gear swamping and more gear that offers a lot of ACC, it's not as great.

Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Subtle Blow +5
Heed Ring gives STB +7 plus the 3 ACC that the dex would give from rajas. Nevermind the slew of gear in other slots that give STB too, like Toreoro Torque with 9 eva and STB.

Rajas ring is as outdated as Tamas ring at this point.

It is clear you have no understanding in any way of meele jobs, there is no point in even trying with you anymore.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 01:20 AM

It is clear you have no understanding in any way of meele jobs, there is no point in even trying with you anymore.

Because I use mage jobs, of course. However what am I gaining out of this is the same notion you have towards tamas ring. Rajas ring saves space on having to have other. Only other than that, the benefits can be felt across all melee jobs, however minuscule they may be.

Tamoa

09-11-2011, 01:20 AM

I'll counter with Rajas's break down.
Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Lol what did I just read?!?!

Aver

09-11-2011, 01:20 AM

Store..TP.. proc?

So like just how haste takes time to proc right?

edit: Tamoa was faster on the draw.

Neisan_Quetz

09-11-2011, 01:24 AM

ITT: StoreTP takes time to proc

Soranika

09-11-2011, 01:25 AM

Meh, thinking of conserve mp. Whatever, my argument still stands.

Vortex

09-11-2011, 01:26 AM

Because I use mage jobs, of course. However what am I gaining out of this is the same notion you have towards tamas ring. Rajas ring saves space on having to have other. Only other than that, the benefits can be felt across all melee jobs, however minuscule they may be.

serious question, is rosina your sister?, no really.

Elexia

09-11-2011, 01:26 AM

Store..TP.. proc?

So like just how haste takes time to proc right?

edit: Tamoa was faster on the draw.

In actuality, you do need a certain amount of STP to even notice a real difference, much like people who cream themselves over haste will mock people with "only" 10 - 14% haste in gear.

Soranika

09-11-2011, 01:30 AM

serious question, is rosina your sister?, no really.
Gross!

Fine, explain to me why Rajas is better than any other alternative rings for melee going on different builds?

Vortex

09-11-2011, 01:31 AM

Gross!

Fine, explain to me why Rajas is better than any other alternative rings for melee going on different builds?

........SERIOSULY!? Yea, i'm done.

Sparthos

09-11-2011, 01:32 AM

In actuality, you do need a certain amount of STP to even notice a real difference, much like people who cream themselves over haste will mock people with "only" 10 - 14% haste in gear.

Yet the point stands that when utilized correctly, Store TP shaves hits off getting to 100 TP which then increases weaponskill frequency and thus overall damage.

You are right though, using it incorrectly can make it quite worthless.

Ignorance of the benefits is perfectly fine when someone has the open mind to learn from those in the know but it is not fine when someone attempts to pass off ignorance as a virtue.

Aurara

09-11-2011, 01:35 AM

Gross!

Fine, explain to me why Rajas is better than any other alternative rings for melee going on different builds?

How about it's the only ring with 5 STR/DEX/5SB/sTP, stats that you can't get anywhere else, because unlike Tamas, which can be outclassed because at this point -enmity isn't as big a deal as it used to be, and there are +7 MND/INT rings, which you dont fulltime on mages since you swap them out. You don't melee in str rings, or dex rings(unless you're really cheap or you can't possibly have anything better to equip.)

Soranika

09-11-2011, 01:41 AM

Yet the point stands that when utilized correctly, Store TP shaves hits off getting to 100 TP which then increases weaponskill frequency and thus overall damage.

You are right though, using it incorrectly can make it quite worthless.

Ignorance of the benefits is perfectly fine when someone has the open mind to learn from those in the know but it is not fine when someone attempts to pass off ignorance as a virtue.
Not speaking for anyone else, being DNC is my ownly main, I don't see the point. TP comes back fast enough when doing self skill chains via double/triple attack equipment and reverse flourish. Nevermind store tp already in AF3 DNC set.

I don't feel convinced to switch to it being mage heavy.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 01:44 AM

5DEX is nearly always .5%~5% critical hit rate, math is fun.

Edit: Also, lol1hweaponsinVW

5 dex is always zero% crit on voidwatch. oneiros annulet for 2 handed DDs because they don't cap their acc either even in their dreams. Only BG ignorant would seriously think their rajas gives then 5% crit lol.

Also I'm getting tired about all the references to voidwatch that we tend to see from BGers nowadays. The rewards are very bad, noone does it because of it. It's VERY far from being a reference (and in this case anyway it makes rajas inferior) and the system itself is the opposite of 'TP>WS>TP>WS ... until it dies". It's time to wake up and realise FFXI has changed.

Deadvinta

09-11-2011, 02:03 AM

Hey everyone? Shut up.

Sparthos

09-11-2011, 02:04 AM

Apparently SE sees differently.

Abyssea is over and the future lay in the new Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes and possibly CoP Dynamis. That's why you know... they have 4 Voidwatch patches planned.

Aurara

09-11-2011, 02:08 AM

Edit: not worth the warning, but Rajas is still good, regardless of what pchan says.

Eburo

09-11-2011, 02:12 AM

Leveling to 30 is time consuming?

Were you even around when people had to level to 75 and do merits without Abyssea or GoV? *taps foot*

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 02:21 AM

Nothing is better than 9 acc if you need acc

Just posting to point out that Pchan is wrong. Mars ring is better than the 9acc ring.

Leonlionheart

09-11-2011, 02:28 AM

Tamoa

09-11-2011, 02:29 AM

If acc is that much of an issue, there's always the Marinara Pizza (+1) too.

Khiinroye

09-11-2011, 02:30 AM

The difference with rajas and tamas is that, when meleeing, ALL stats on rajas are taking effect. With Tamas, once the mp is used, it is gone, so it isn't really a factor. When casting spells, it will either be an INT +3 Enmity -3 ring or a MND +5 Enmity -3 ring. Meanwhile, with rajas, you get the benefit of a STR +5 DEX +5 Subtle Blow +5 Store TP +5 ring.

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 02:33 AM

5 dex is always zero% crit on voidwatch. oneiros annulet for 2 handed DDs because they don't cap their acc either even in their dreams. Only BG ignorant would seriously think their rajas gives then 5% crit lol.

Also I'm getting tired about all the references to voidwatch that we tend to see from BGers nowadays. The rewards are very bad, noone does it because of it. It's VERY far from being a reference (and in this case anyway it makes rajas inferior) and the system itself is the opposite of 'TP>WS>TP>WS ... until it dies". It's time to wake up and realise FFXI has changed.

My WAR actually has capped ACC on everything in Voidwatch using rajas ring, without aggressor, acc food, or giving up all that much in gear. With the only exception being the Vampire~ Maybe if you actually did voidwatch or bothered to learn about the game, you'd know more about it and not toss out blanket statements like "No 2 handed DD has capped acc ever."

As far as drops go.... Do you use Rancor Collar or are you gimp? Or are you going to try and say it's not the best necklace for every job while TPing, and almost always the best WS necklace for any DD using a WS with a chance to crit? Or do you want to just admit the overall best necklace for most jobs in the game comes from voidwatch? There's other very, very good items from voidwatch too, you're trying to cover for yourself saying it's all bad because you don't have any friends or an LS to do it with.

People don't do voidwatch because they are bad players. You constantly trying to justify the fact that you don't do it is kind of getting old. Back at 75 cap, how many people actually did Tiamat, Khim, DI, Einherjar, etc? Not very many. Why is it so surprising to you that only a few people do voidwatch? This is how endgame FFXI content has always been. Only the easy content gets done by most people. Like abyssea right now, or dynamis/limbus/salvage before the cap was raised.

Gokku

09-11-2011, 02:37 AM

Rajsa main thing is the 5stp with all the other positive stats.

the following is a very loose example of why.

5stp gives roughly .5% extra tp per hit meaning if you were going ot get 19 tp a hit you actually gain 19.5 so you would go
*you dont see the .5* hit 1 19% hit 2 39% hit 3 58% 78% etc
without the ring you would go 19 38 57 76 , you see how big of an effect just that ring alone has

WARNING the above math is not 100% accurate its just to get the other person to understand what stp does.

Modoru

09-11-2011, 02:42 AM

Wait, you're still going on with this?

Kogenta

09-11-2011, 02:59 AM

Nooo all the fun is done *throws popcorns on the wall

Genoxd

09-11-2011, 03:13 AM

This post translates into you suck @ video games. No offense, but it's true and there's no way to really think of it any other way. All of the items on the test server are easily obtainable.

Spells: go do the BCNM if you can't afford them. Some are quite easy to solo.

AF2 go solo dynamis or get a PT or a group of friends who want AF2 as well.

AF3+2 find a good linkshell. You want one with a fair DKP system, there is no need to con a LS into getting you the items. You have points then you lot.

Leveling is not hard. FoV and GoV make it quite fast and easy to get to 30. At that point you can just leech your way to 90 in abyssea. You don't have to pay anyone anything, just make your own PT. PT leader can always leech (though I always key since i don't really care to leech.) Some healers and DDs then you're set, don't get more then 2-3 leeches in a PT. I've gotten all my SJs from 37 to 50 and BLU/WAR/MNK to 90 through leeching, and BLM/SMN/SAM/BST to 90 through EXP in abyssea.

Skilling up is fun and easy (to me) I have Staff, H2H, Sword, GK, Great Axe, Axe, Elemental, Summoning, Blue magic, at max. I also have Club, Dagger, Enfeebling, Enhancing, Archery, Marksmanship, Parry, Dark, Polearm, Singing, and Wind around 200. With skillup food and Moogle powers it's extremely easy to get anything up to 200 and at that point it's quite easy to finish in abyssea if you have no other choice. Also I know quite a few people with both max parry and max guarding.

As for the "crazy weapons" they didn't give us any Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons, only the WoE ones. Yes the WSs are nice, but you can live w/o them while you try to get them. I've never done a WoE weapon, however I do have a Hvergelmir and I am working on Amanomurakumo (18/60 stage 4, 10/70 stage 5.) These weapons take time, you can't expect to have them magically pop into your hands. WoE take time too, but you can manage solo/with friends/in a linkshell. If you want an Empyrean then form a group and tell people all upgrade items are yours and they can lot the test. You can also get a group of friends and all help each other upgrade them. Lastly you can get a Linkshell with a DKP system and lot them when you fight those mobs.

I'm going to shut up now, but before I go I have 1 more thing to say:
Did you notice the trend in most of these things? (STOP BEING LAZY/GO MAKE FRIENDS/GET A GOOD LINKSHELL)

Rearden

09-11-2011, 03:13 AM

I'll put it this way, on jobs that can't use Epona's ring, if one of those shitty rings that everyone uses from Abyssea had 5STR and 5DEX on it, that'd be my default second ring for everything.

Also, spending money on a 9acc ring instead of a Mars ring is about as retarded as it gets. I don't even have acc issues on PLD in Voidwatch, Crab/Vampire aside. (Though Gorget/Belt-Anguinus usually perform better than Rancor :3 )

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 03:32 AM

Apparently SE sees differently.

Abyssea is over and the future lay in the new Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes and possibly CoP Dynamis. That's why you know... they have 4 Voidwatch patches planned.

We have already seen the reward and they are extremely disapointing, side grades of situationnal gear at best. So you can keep thinking that they want VW to be the future of the game, but they don't put it in practice by finally surpassing AF3+2 and empyrean weapon. As an exemple they made pretty videos of the next weapons ; did you see them ? Underwhelming. It's a bone to give us until they finally fix jobs and old content.

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 03:37 AM

As an exemple they made pretty videos of the next weapons ; did you see them ? Underwhelming. It's a bone to give us until they finally fix jobs and old content.

Perhaps you missed the knife that will most likely end up being the best off hand dagger for THF and DNC. You should watch that video again Gchan.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 03:45 AM

My WAR actually has capped ACC on everything in Voidwatch using rajas ring, without aggressor, acc food, or giving up all that much in gear. With the only exception being the Vampire~ Maybe if you actually did voidwatch or bothered to learn about the game, you'd know more about it and not toss out blanket statements like "No 2 handed DD has capped acc ever."

No you don't.

As far as drops go.... Do you use Rancor Collar or are you gimp?

Typical noob answer. You did not understand anything to voidwatch ; either you tank and racor collar is dumb or you don't tank ans therefore don't hit (inbefore PLD being superior : wrong, you hit= you tank). Auction house, what is it?

People don't do voidwatch because they are bad players.

Wrong. People don't do VM because the drop are not worth it, it is that simple, and a few die hard still do them in hope the future will be brighter, but PLEASE, stop spreading nonsense. Rancor collar is pretty dumb neck piece to equip, I'm not sure who can seriously consider using this in voidwatch for one, or outside for two. So what ? You can kill big crap ? And ...? They are all fairly easily 6-manable. Problem is the drop are bad. You come here on your high horse explaining us that people that don't chose to farm rancor collar are necessarily bad players ? You realise that a "good player" makes at least one million in one hour of dynamis farming ?

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 03:46 AM

Perhaps you missed the knife that will most likely end up being the best off hand dagger for THF and DNC. You should watch that video again Gchan.

Yes I missed it lol.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 03:47 AM

Ganesha's Mala, Ganesha's Mask, Fazhuelo Radiant Mail, Strendu Ring, Strendu Mantle, Langeleik, Mextli Harness say que pasa

Not to mention, upcoming VW drops surpass nearly every piece of gear for nearly every job in every slot they are offered for.

Examples:
Azteca body 2 eff
Body Ex Rare Lv95
Defense60 STR+13 DEX+13 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 Double Attack+2%
Sphere:Haste+2% Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

Azteca head 2
Head Rare Lv95
Defense31 DEX+12 AGI+12 Haste+6% Regen Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

China body 2 eff
Body Ex Rare Lv95
Defense70 VIT+17 Physical damage-8% Change 14% physical damage to TP
Sphereouble Attack+2% Combination:Haste+8%
WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

China head 2
Head rare Lv95
Defense40 STR+15 Attack+25 Day:Element WS damage up Combination:Haste+8%
WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

I will say, it will be fun watching AF3 MNKs (Which laughably, you aren't) run around at 95. At least they'll be better geared than a MNK wearing full Usu.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 03:52 AM

Ganesha's Mala

sucks. Because your quadruple attack is awesome when it procs on 3rd or 4th it.

Ganesha's Mask

Mathed by several people to be inferior than mnk AF3 head for instance.

, Fazhuelo Radiant Mail, Strendu Ring, Strendu Mantle, Langeleik, Mextli Harness say que pasa

junk.

Not to mention, upcoming VW drops surpass every piece of gear for every job in every slot they are offered for.

junk except cure potency for RDM which is no longer a healer.

Azteca body 2 eff
Body Ex Rare Lv95
Defense60 STR+13 DEX+13 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 Double Attack+2%
Sphere:Haste+2% Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

You never wondered why they didn't put better stats than AF3+2 on it ?

Azteca head 2
Head Rare Lv95
Defense31 DEX+12 AGI+12 Haste+6% Regen Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

seriously ?

China body 2 eff
Body Ex Rare Lv95
Defense70 VIT+17 Physical damage-8% Change 14% physical damage to TP
Sphereouble Attack+2% Combination:Haste+8%
WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

seriously ?

I will say, it will be fun watching AF3 MNKs (Which laughably, you aren't) run around at 95. At least they'll be better geared than a MNK wearing full Usu.

When are you finally going to do maths to back up your claims ? Typical BG.

Korpg

09-11-2011, 03:55 AM

I know I'm a little late, but with BG crowd just not being helpful at all, I'll help you with this.

STR +5
For on handed weapons, that only equals 2 ATK. 3 ATK for two handed weapons. Obviously, there are other rings that out classes that.

DEX +5
If you're going for crit damage on a job that doesn't rely on crit or low chance of crit damaging, why bother? ACC is not much of an issue lately if you actually skill up your job. With all the gear swamping and more gear that offers a lot of ACC, it's not as great.

You are right, there are rings out there that have better than 5 STR and 5 DEX on them. But are there any rings out there that have better than both 5 STR and DEX on the same ring? You do know that Crit rate is effective with additional DEX, which is why people still use Byakko's Haidate even though there are better legs with additional Haste and accuracy on them.
But neither of those stats are what makes the ring shine.

Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Ignoring the "even procs" part, Store TP helps turn an X hit build better. Can turn a 7 hit into a 6 hit and a 6 hit into a 5 hit.

Subtle Blow +5
Heed Ring gives STB +7 plus the 3 ACC that the dex would give from rajas. Nevermind the slew of gear in other slots that give STB too, like Toreoro Torque with 9 eva and STB.

Subtle Blow is very helpful on feeding TP to the mob, which is VERY helpful for people who are tanking them mobs. Even when only 1 person is on the mob, the Subtle Blow effect can be noticeable when it comes to the number of cures needed to survive a fight.

Rajas ring is as outdated as Tamas ring at this point.

Only if you have individual stats on Rajas. But since Rajas has STR, DEX, Store TP, and Subtle Blow all in one slot, that is what makes this ring shine into the best ring for actual melees. It encompasses attack, accuracy, crit hit rate, increase TP wield, decreased TP feed, and overall and outright damage delt to anything. Tamas increase the accuracy and, if done, damage delt to a mob from a magical source while not gaining much hate from doing so. MP+ is negotiable because nothing of value really costs less than 50 MP. Except Sleep and Stun.

Leonlionheart

09-11-2011, 03:55 AM

Pchan lol you noob

Gokku

09-11-2011, 03:57 AM

pchan wears full usu? for.. what?

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 04:01 AM

Gchan full times full Usu, cause AF3 is garbage and gear swaps are for noobs.
(and if he even tries to argue this I will go find the quotes of him saying it)

Anyway, On the MNK AF3+2 hat vs Gan mask comment, how does 7 STR and a 1% Increase to whatever the kick attacks augment is beat 4% attack exactly?

Rearden

09-11-2011, 04:04 AM

The math he's referencing was done by BG noobs in which it showed that in 2/3 presented situations (the 2 situations representing 90% of gameplay) Ganesha's mask outperformed AF3+2

Gokku

09-11-2011, 04:08 AM

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 04:11 AM

No you don't.

If you did Voidwatch you'd know I do.~

Typical noob answer. You did not understand anything to voidwatch ; either you tank and racor collar is dumb or you don't tank ans therefore don't hit (inbefore PLD being superior : wrong, you hit= you tank). Auction house, what is it?

"Voidwatch is the only event, therefor gear options for other events don't matter" Is this seriously your arguement for why rancor collar is bad?

Wrong. People don't do VM because the drop are not worth it, it is that simple, and a few die hard still do them in hope the future will be brighter, but PLEASE, stop spreading nonsense. Rancor collar is pretty dumb neck piece to equip, I'm not sure who can seriously consider using this in voidwatch for one, or outside for two. So what ? You can kill big crap ? And ...? They are all fairly easily 6-manable. Problem is the drop are bad. You come here on your high horse explaining us that people that don't chose to farm rancor collar are necessarily bad players ? You realise that a "good player" makes at least one million in one hour of dynamis farming ?

I was simply pointing out that you don't have any friends and are not capable of doing voidwatch, just like all the other bad players around, and that there are some very good drops from it. Just because you choose to be blinded by your own ignorance doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 04:20 AM

dont forget you lose capped haste, also from a lazyness stand point i love not having to swap the head in and out for perfect counter.

theres also assuming Fstr is capped at all times.

aso with 533 atk *my base outside abyssea* G mask is +21atk

You lose out on (from memory) 0.15% haste and it still wins. However if this is a problem, it can be easily rectified with Usu feet.

Monchat

09-11-2011, 04:22 AM

If you did Voidwatch you'd know I do.~

go away. double madrigals + sole sushi+1 + focus is giving you ~75% hit rate only on the crab. Stop lying. Now some of then dont have high evasion, ill give you that.

Im sorry to tell you VW is not hard content. Just because it is meant for alliance doesnt make it hard. From what ive seen 2 balanced party of half brained people will clear NP including procs. Most (all?) of the Nm have been reported to be defeatible by 6 or less. Ive personally cleared all tier 1 and II and some III with mnkx2 whm brd smn blm. You only need more for procs. VW drops suck period. VW proc system suck. VW loot distribution suck. VW KIs suck. VW II drops equally suck.

Gokku

09-11-2011, 04:22 AM

but swapping usu feet lose's the massive damage bonus afforded by af3+2 feet?
not arguing just discussing the different swappable gear at hand * ive got it all anyways*

there is nooooo waayyyy the krab is that hard to hit... ive fought it, your over hyping it... then again we had a thf a drg and me on war and just zerged the fuckker down for clear.

Leonlionheart

09-11-2011, 04:24 AM

go away. double madrigals + sole sushi+1 + focus is giving you ~75% hit rate only on the crab. Stop lying. Now some of then dont have high evasion, ill give you that.

Im sorry to tell you VW is not hard content. Just because it is meant for alliance doesnt make it hard. From what ive seen 2 balanced party of half brained people will clear NP including procs. Most (all?) of the Nm have been reported to be defeatible by 6 or less. Ive personally cleared all tier 1 and II and some III with mnkx2 whm brd smn blm. You only need more for procs. VW drops suck period. VW proc system suck. VW loot distribution suck. VW KIs suck. VW II drops equally suck.

How the **** does "converts 14% of damage taken to tp" suck

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 04:25 AM

The math he's referencing was done by BG noobs in which it showed that in 2/3 presented situations (the 2 situations representing 90% of gameplay) Ganesha's mask outperformed AF3+2

When are finally going to provide numbers ?

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 04:27 AM

go away. double madrigals + sole sushi+1 + focus is giving you ~75% hit rate only on the crab. Stop lying. Now some of then dont have high evasion, ill give you that.

Focus........?
Why would I sub MNK to WAR exactly? WAR/SAM or GTFO.

Gokku

09-11-2011, 04:30 AM

i think they are saying on monk they only had 75% hit rate but still thats really REALLY hard to see the acc so low. The tonberry and the Vamp are the only 2 ive fought that had retarded evasion.

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 04:31 AM

When are finally going to provide numbers ?

Why don't you provide numbers, or anything of value, you NEVER do, just scream for others to do it, when you're the one claiming BS.

i think they are saying on monk they only had 75% hit rate but still thats really REALLY hard to see the acc so low. The tonberry and the Vamp are the only 2 ive fought that had retarded evasion.

Which is kinda funny since I was talking about WAR, and they're calling me a liar cause their MNK sucks.

Gokku

09-11-2011, 04:35 AM

back to the monk gear thing ,
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14073-Monk-Kick-Attack-Rate-and-Random-other-Facts-and-Formulas

assume no other DA / TA gear

with 5/5 25% *ive or take * for and extra 1 kick with +45dmg

vs 3/5 + g mask / Usu 19% + 0 dmg

vs 4/5 + Gmask 22* +45 dmg .15? haste from cap

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 05:07 AM

Focus........?
Why would I sub MNK to WAR exactly? WAR/SAM or GTFO.

face ... palm.

Monchat

09-11-2011, 05:08 AM

Which is kinda funny since I was talking about WAR, and they're calling me a liar cause their MNK sucks.

So you are basically claiming that WAR has naturally ~150 more accuracy than a monk. The dex bonus from 2handed weapons will give you 30 at best. Your a liar.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 05:10 AM

For some reason you keep missing the 4haste on GMask.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 05:38 AM

So you are basically claiming that WAR has naturally ~150 more accuracy than a monk. The dex bonus from 2handed weapons will give you 30 at best. Your a liar.

My MNK loses 25 accuracy to my WAR during TP phase due to DEX. My MNK gains 30 accuracy due to Focus or can maintain 25/30 accuracy at all times if timers are separated, but for the sake of fuck lets just assume all buffs are up.

Advantage during TP phase: MNK (523 accuracy) to WAR (508 accuracy)

For a WAR or MNK to parse 75% accuracy (with buffs up) the mob would need to have roughly 680-700 evasion.

Since we know monster stat progression mimics our own, what you're insinuating is either one of two fallacies:

1. VW mobs gain Evasion Bonus XXXV

2. VW mobs are level 150

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 05:49 AM

For some reason you keep missing the 4haste on GMask.

Nobody missed the 4 haste.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 05:52 AM

My MNK loses 25 accuracy to my WAR during TP phase due to DEX. My MNK gains 30 accuracy due to Focus or can maintain 25/30 accuracy at all times if timers are separated, but for the sake of fuck lets just assume all buffs are up.

Advantage during TP phase: MNK (523 accuracy) to WAR (508 accuracy)

For a WAR or MNK to parse 75% accuracy (with buffs up) the mob would need to have roughly 680-700 evasion.

Since we know monster stat progression mimics our own, what you're insinuating is either one of two fallacies:

1. VW mobs gain Evasion Bonus XXXV

2. VW mobs are level 150

I think you are the only FFXI player that did not notice VWNMs being much higher than players and having a much higher evasion than the typical endgame mob (+6-7 levels until now).

Juri_Licious

09-11-2011, 06:07 AM

The test server is like playing on a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ server.

Monchat

09-11-2011, 06:12 AM

How the **** does "converts 14% of damage taken to tp" suck

I'll give you that this piece actually looks interesting ( forgot about it). But I don't have jobs using it so I cannot comment further on what one has to give up in order to get this effect [ keeping in mind that this effct is proportinal to the target's attack speed, not your own stats). The two other bodies are really underwhelming. Im hoping for more drops off VW, I stoped working on clears after I saw the data mined.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 06:46 AM

The body is only good for PLD. Your tp gain is proportional to the mob attck rate and damage. The TP gain from a standard melee body will obviously be stonger. You are therefore bound to macro it on a TP move. Then you have to find a reason to bring a pld.

edit : and now you check the PLD AF3 body, you try to find a reason to use this body and can't lol.

wish12oz

09-11-2011, 06:49 AM

Your natural acc no buffs or food on MNK is actually gonna be around 475, while mine in my acc set is 520 on (mithra) WAR, and all I give up is 3% DA, .5% haste, 7 STR and 2 attack. I could stack a lot more acc if I tried, but this enough for most of Voidwatch. (this is not counting hasso, aggressor, DEX from marches, food, etc~)

And Gchan, since you want to imply SAM sub is somehow inferior to something else on WAR, why don't you elaborate more, and provide proof, since that's what you always ask of everyone else.

EDIT: Current best PDT body is 6%, who cares about TP converted from damage, that's the new best PDT body for every job other then PLD that can equip it.

EDIT 2: You'd also be a fool to not wear it while cleaving or cataing~

Elexia

09-11-2011, 07:14 AM

Gokku

09-11-2011, 07:17 AM

Leonlionheart

09-11-2011, 07:26 AM

Gokku

09-11-2011, 07:33 AM

Mitigates damage taken based on enmity

Low Enmity:Aprox. -2.4% Damage Taken. Reduction is active even when not on the hate list.
High Enmity:Aprox. -10.2% Damage Taken

id rather have the 8% and 14 % tp feed 100% of the time then 2-10% when i have high hate

Monchat

09-11-2011, 07:40 AM

damage taken includes non physical damage.

MarkovChain

09-11-2011, 07:40 AM

This body is not for full time I thought it was obvious. You 20 acc attack HP MP. It's best to be macroed during a physical TP move. At this point you lose 2% pdt and get nice TPs. Here is the problem. Either you use the TP to do a great WS damage, in which case you should ask why you are on pld, or do crap ws damage, in which case you should ask what it actually increases.

Gokku

09-11-2011, 07:42 AM

and if im taking Magic dmg i have a already capped mdt set.... MDT is a easy thing to cap on any job.

or you then lean that plds ws dmg has always been low but hate is hate and every bit helps.

Monchat

09-11-2011, 03:36 PM

just like PDT. DT is lot limited to magic and physical.

Urteil

09-11-2011, 04:54 PM

You might literally be retarded

Ha. ---------------------

Neonii

09-11-2011, 10:29 PM

My WAR actually has capped ACC on everything in Voidwatch using rajas ring, without aggressor, acc food, or giving up all that much in gear. With the only exception being the Vampire~ Maybe if you actually did voidwatch or bothered to learn about the game, you'd know more about it and not toss out blanket statements like "No 2 handed DD has capped acc ever."

As far as drops go.... Do you use Rancor Collar or are you gimp? Or are you going to try and say it's not the best necklace for every job while TPing, and almost always the best WS necklace for any DD using a WS with a chance to crit? Or do you want to just admit the overall best necklace for most jobs in the game comes from voidwatch? There's other very, very good items from voidwatch too, you're trying to cover for yourself saying it's all bad because you don't have any friends or an LS to do it with.

People don't do voidwatch because they are bad players. You constantly trying to justify the fact that you don't do it is kind of getting old. Back at 75 cap, how many people actually did Tiamat, Khim, DI, Einherjar, etc? Not very many. Why is it so surprising to you that only a few people do voidwatch? This is how endgame FFXI content has always been. Only the easy content gets done by most people. Like abyssea right now, or dynamis/limbus/salvage before the cap was raised.

I'm a bad player because I don't do Voidwatch?

Mirage

09-11-2011, 10:33 PM

You might not be a top tier player, at least.

Neonii

09-11-2011, 11:13 PM

You might not be a top tier player, at least.

Actually i'm an inexperienced one as far as old end game anyway. Almost two years on ffx1 now. I earned my first level 75 job as level cap increase and Abyssea were coming in. I did not really have an opportunity to do most of old end game it seemed obsolete I did solo what I could and static if I found an opportunity.

It is probably correct that I can't find a ls to do Voidwatch. Every nice one I find breaks up due to infighting most over issues going back to before my time.

The reason I even asked the question is to wonder if "top tier" folks even wonder or care how posting statements like that sound to newer folks. Inexperience does not make one a bad player just a developing one. I will have to respectfully disagree not doing Voidwatch does not make one a bad player. There could be any of a number of reasons a player chooses not to do any particular game content. In my particular case it is usually a rush to do as much as possible before the ls breaks up.

Rearden

09-11-2011, 11:51 PM

Mirage

09-12-2011, 12:03 AM

Actually i'm an inexperienced one as far as old end game anyway. Almost two years on ffx1 now. I earned my first level 75 job as level cap increase and Abyssea were coming in. I did not really have an opportunity to do most of old end game it seemed obsolete I did solo what I could and static if I found an opportunity.

It is probably correct that I can't find a ls to do Voidwatch. Every nice one I find breaks up due to infighting most over issues going back to before my time.

The reason I even asked the question is to wonder if "top tier" folks even wonder or care how posting statements like that sound to newer folks. Inexperience does not make one a bad player just a developing one. I will have to respectfully disagree not doing Voidwatch does not make one a bad player. There could be any of a number of reasons a player chooses not to do any particular game content. In my particular case it is usually a rush to do as much as possible before the ls breaks up.

Don't worry, I'm not a top tier player either.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

09-12-2011, 12:07 AM

Every nice one I find breaks up due to infighting most over issues going back to before my time.

Welcome to endgame.

Really, the clash of egos here in these threads is but a sample of what happens when these people actually try to do anything together. It's inevitable.

Gokku

09-12-2011, 01:17 AM

just like PDT. DT is lot limited to magic and physical.

please explain to me how MDT PDT and DT work/stack.

MarkovChain

09-12-2011, 01:37 AM

Kaerin isn't implying you are bad if you don't do Voidwatch, but rather linkshells that try it/fail at it choose not to do it because they are bad players as a whole. This can mean they are the Pchans of the world, the Rosinas, incapable of teamwork or flat out poorly geared and shitty. The event isn't forgiving and requires not only the ability to kill it/survive to it, but work within its proc system to be successful (if not ---> massive waste of time)

Rearden : first AF3+2 piece obtained on 17/4/2011
Rearden : first level EIGHTY empyrean gotten 17/7/2011

The guys comes here on the official forum explaining us that people not doing VW suck. I mean do you look at your face in a mirror sometimes ? You obtain you empyrean 1 year after it is realeased and a first piece of AF3+2 8 month after it is introduced. You are a gimp.

You know this thread makes me think of the old HNM system. People that monopolized them would act allmighty everywhere on forums explaining to those that didn't camp that they were gimped. HAHAHA.

Aurara

09-12-2011, 01:46 AM

Rearden : first AF3+2 piece obtained on 17/4/2011
Rearden : first level EIGHTY empyrean gotten 17/7/2011

The guys comes here on the official forum explaining us that people not doing VW suck. I mean do you look at your face in a mirror sometimes ? You obtain you empyrean 1 year after it is realeased and a first piece of AF3+2 8 month after it is introduced. You are a gimp.

You know this thread makes me think of the old HNM system. People that monopolized them would act allmighty everywhere on forums explaining to those that didn't camp that they were gimped. HAHAHA.

Pchan, has it ever occured to you that people come back to the game after long breaks? I mean...you did that didn't you? You got your emp super late into the game. By your logic you're a gimp too, and while you might be furiously contemplating an excuse to give to me about why you aren't gimp and why you need 15 different ele resists sets for dragua, and why rancor collar is bad, or why full usu>5/5 af3+2, just know that you are just as gimp(according to your standards) and have no valid argument seeing as you took a very long break from the game and got your emp after 85 cap came out, which makes your argument null and void.

To address your claim that people who camped kings called people who didn't camp kings gimp let me shine some light on it. I called the people who cried, complained and moaned about kings gimp because 1)They put in 0 effort to camp kings. and 2)They were gimp for not doing einherjar for the same gear sans ridill/d.ring. If you're going to say camping kings is gimp, you have a point...however the amount of gil that was made at kings was incredible(if done correctly). Face it Pchan, you're a hypocrite who's upset with BG because you got banned for being obnoxious there, and i can see how much you're hurt but just let it go.

Neisan_Quetz

09-12-2011, 01:48 AM

Didn't Francisco already prove you wrong about using FFXIAH/Guildwork for time frames?

Elexia

09-12-2011, 02:00 AM

Rearden : first AF3+2 piece obtained on 17/4/2011
Rearden : first level EIGHTY empyrean gotten 17/7/2011

This has to do with what?

Not to mention:

You obtain you empyrean 1 year after it is realeased and a first piece of AF3+2 8 month after it is introduced. You are a gimp.

Considering one has said weapon, then said +2 armor piece, doesn't that contradict the statement of being gimped? What kind of idiocy is this?

MarkovChain

09-12-2011, 02:20 AM

Considering one has said weapon, then said +2 armor piece, doesn't that contradict the statement of being gimped? What kind of idiocy is this?

Because you are supposed to get them right when it is introduced. Abyssea is hard. Also gimps always have excuses.

Aurara

09-12-2011, 02:23 AM

Because you are supposed to get them right when it is introduced. Abyssea is hard. Also gimps always have excuses.

Just like you right? Always an excuse as to why you got your vereth in 2011

wish12oz

09-12-2011, 02:33 AM

Every nice one I find breaks up due to infighting most over issues going back to before my time.

If you can't find a good LS, make one. It will always work out better that way.

And ya, everything Rearden said. I was only referring to people who have a group that actively does 'endgame' and does not do voidwatch. Bad drop rates are no excuse for not doing things, and its especially funny seeing Gchan say that since he has usukane body and got it before the salvage drop rates were increased.

And ya, Gchan you didn't get anything before others, ever. You were always on the tail end, just like now with your empyrean and af3+2 you didn't get any of until well after that 90 cap.

Tamoa

09-12-2011, 02:46 AM

Didn't Francisco already prove you wrong about using FFXIAH/Guildwork for time frames?

Probably too hard to understand how that works.

Looking at that equipment history, the fact that he got 80, 85 and 90 Verethragna AND 85 Ukonvasara all on the same day should tell Pchan something. But I guess not.

Rearden

09-12-2011, 02:49 AM

Because you are supposed to get them right when it is introduced. Abyssea is hard. Also gimps always have excuses.

Well, I did get my first 2 Briarius Helms for Almace in August before I deployed and was away until April. I think August was when Visions came out, yeah?

Aurara

09-12-2011, 02:51 AM

Well, I did get my first 2 Briarius Helms for Almace in August before I deployed and was away until April. I think August was when Visions came out, yeah?

iirc visions came out in june of 2010, because i left for semester at sea on the 17th, and it was just about to come out.

Rearden

09-12-2011, 02:53 AM

Released June 21st, was off a bit.

Aurara

09-12-2011, 02:55 AM

Released June 21st, was off a bit.

Knew it was sometime after i left :(

Elexia

09-12-2011, 03:07 AM

Because you are supposed to get them right when it is introduced. Abyssea is hard. Also gimps always have excuses.

Well, ok then, do you have:
Glanzfaust
Murgleis
Kenkonken

Since non-gimps should have had these since no later than 2009, yes? I don't want to hear any excuses of any kind, whether the "empyrean is better" is moot, given the whole logic you're supposed to complete shit when they're introduced.

Otherwise, I think I see why a lot of people dislike you, and it's definitely not because you're "better than everyone else".

Rearden

09-12-2011, 03:15 AM

Is there anything further to test regarding DEX and critical hit (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Critical_Hit_Rate) rate (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68786-Dexterity-s-impact-on-critical-hits/)?

Huevriel

09-12-2011, 08:41 AM

There was a really good point somewhere in this post where people complain about grinding for skills. SE's old system of level_up_rarely_and_spend_your_xp'ing_days_getting_your_skillups worked out. You cap your stuff just about every time you leveled.

Now that everyone just skyrockets to 90+ you have hundreds of skill levels to get to close that gap. Especially if you leech your way to 90. SE's method of GoV and items to help you gain skill levels faster was a great way to <Remedy> this.
For those of you who leech up to 90. Yes, many of them "don't know how to play their job." Some find enlightenment through the hours of grinding skill levels and learn the ins and outs. Others just give up and complain on the forums.

Stating the obvious: people will play their own way and in their own pace, no matter how badly it disagrees or holds people back.

Rearden

09-12-2011, 08:42 AM

Hey guys I heard Alla doesn't have trolls

Edit: I cleaved BLU to 90 a couple weeks ago, I'm missing 2-3 pieces of optimal gear and 15 or so lower level physical spells. I'm no Draylo, but I'd venture to say I can play the job pretty well. Is it the cleave or the player?

Aurara

09-12-2011, 08:46 AM

Concerned4FFxi

09-13-2011, 11:32 AM

Guys and gals, please remeber that not everyone's ability is equal even if given the same stuff to start out with. The orginal poster is person, please keep that in mind and keep the name calling down, reguardless if he has played long time and in your opinion he should be more advanced. Nobody likes to be bullied or picked on. Everyone has their own pace and skill.

However, some of what is said is true and perhaps you (orginal poster) can consider it. While its true ls does help alot, nowadays a small 3-5 man static or duo can get you pretty far. As for gil, it is hard to obtainif you dont work at it. Now I npc abyssea gear and augmented weapons from dom ops, as well as sell currency and I'm considering selling a few goading belts on my server the next time I do an empyrean static (obviously theres like 4 weapons in that zone so I'm looking at h2h since I really want relic gs over empyrean ga, this way i have a weapon for my dark and war) but obviously this poster doesnt have access to that. I also do xp pts or crour pts, perhaps you should spend time in pts getting crour to npc gear later. Theres plenty of gear thats decent and free in abyssea, you just need research it, then /shout or buddy up. Theres a few nm that drop seals and pops for other nm that sell for around 100k. Perhaps you can farm them and ask for the pops that drop off the nm in exchange for your help and no seals. The buffalo nm in uleguerand range (A) drops a hide that sells well, and its a fairly easy nm to kill, just has alot of hp or something. The hide it drops is needed for the nm tiger that drops much wanted body +1 that is constantly spammed. Do this for a few days and theres your nin scroll. This game takes time and devotion, but there are many ways to the same goal.

Perhaps you can do the bcnm that drops the utsusemi: ni scroll that you need. I'm sure you have beastman seals since you'd been on since 2004.

Pup and jobs like nin are expensive, maybe SE can address this. I know I said in the pup forum that I was against the idea of making some attachments easier to get because i felt the bcnm "captain" was easily trio'd, but some old content is extremly difficult to obtain without support. I take it back because I see your point and I'd like to see more pups.

That said, like was suggested earlier, get a few friends with common goals and interests or a social ls that might help you. If you can find a empyrean weapon ls, start an empyrean weapon or at least get the +2 that drops from the empyrean weapons mobs that your ls kills. At that point most have a boat load of +2 and you should find it easier to obtain those with that type of static or ls.

I admit, those who succeed in this game have to be dedicated or hungry. I've done tons of /shouts to get what I want or made friends and low manned stuff, because like you sometimes linkshells arent for me.

Finally, if all else fails, move to Bismarck and send Amaday a /tell. I'll get you into my ls or a ls that i know is good for you. This goes for ANYBODY who is not a mooch and just wants a good, fun, clean ls to socialize and enjoy the game. When 99 hits and new endgame emerges we will most likely be at the forefront of the server and host events then. Until then, we are a social ls that helps each other out. By "not a mooch", I meant please dont ask our memebrs to assist 24/7, as most of us like to get stuff done for ourselves and in our down time help other ls memebrs that contribute and are willing to help others. Most our users have 1 or more empyrean weapons, and we dont currently have set hours for events because most of us have done everything under the sun so we enjoy casual game play and working on more empyreans or relics or gear in our own time. By casual gameplay I mean we dont have set times for events, we just do what we want, when we want. Because most of us have personal statics or dual box the majority of what we want to accomplish, we dont do schedualed events.

I personally dual box my stuff or roll with 1-3 others, as do alot of our members, but we do get together and do stuff/help others. We are gear driven, but like I said we dont host events we just randomly get together and do stuff or do stuff on our own. Many ls memebrs would be willing to give you hand occasionally, provided that you at least attempt the things you need help with on your own if you can and you farm pops for what it is that you want to kill.

I enjoy helping those who appreciate my help, and lending a hand to new and returning players occassionally in my down time. If SE wants to pay me, I'd be glad to help out alot more and play this game as a full time job helping people and hosting parties 40+ hrs a week for new players, lol. As it stands i might spend 5hrs a week lending a hand and 30hrs doing my own thing. If offered a job by SE to play the game and make it user friendly for new comers, I'd play more and quit my job tomorrow, lol. I think everyone should occasionally take time out and lend a hand to our brothers and sisters in vanadiel.

I would suggest the empyrean/abyssea ls before my own though, if you need the gear asap since like I said we mostly solo or duo our stuff. While we do team-up, a static or event ls may be better for you because of the frequency they spam events. But if events are not your thing, then a social ls is best. Either way it sounds like you need more people you can count on that share mutual goals, you should start there first and meet people.

If you do come to Bismarck it would be my pleasure to lend a helping hand. Goodluck friend.

Melodicya

09-13-2011, 03:08 PM

Hello Everyone!

This thread seems to have gotten a bit off topic. Please get the conversation back on topic so we can continue to have a productive exchange of information.

As always, you can review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1&tag=forum

Thank you for your cooperation!

Dragoy

09-16-2011, 05:12 AM

Reason no one does voidwatch like they 'should' is because it's a horrible reward system. It has decent stuff, but quite honestly, compared to what Abyssea offered, it's no secret why VW is done by only a select few.

Thus why the 95 Emp trials will no doubt require 100-180 VW II items.you know what i love about this post ... the fact dat mining has already found the next empy path takes 1500 of an item no ones found yet.
Actually, the Magian Moogles share that information on the test-server. ^^;

Though I can't know where other players get their information; it might be just as you suspect but yeah, more and less of this information is freely available for view on the test-server without any kind of 'reverse engineering' and the requirements may very well be changed before release still.

As for the test-server in general... I don't really find it more fun than the regular game-play but then again, I've been doing similar testing and otherwise helping on different games so it's not exactly all that exciting for me, meaning that the fun of it will die down, especially if that is the only thing it is for you.

It is, after all, not for a joy-ride but for testing and while I am sure they want people to have fun too, it is more than likely not why it is open for us.

I'm not exactly sure of the woes of the subject, as being able to get the items and job levels as well as skill levels up is particularly helpful for testing; it is not how they intend the game to be for you but rather to make it possible for more people to test more things instead of limiting to what they have attained on the regular servers.

The game itself is in kind of a transition period and only when the level limit of 99 will be here, will things settle down a bit though I'm not saying the game is going to be stopping there, of course, but it is a little bit awkward for the time being.

This might be the first thread where I post in without reading each and every post so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something that someone else already has said but seeing the amount of bickering and whatnot...

At least remember to have some fun while you're at it!
Kind Regards,