PLAYER'S JOB ADJUSTMENT MANIFESTO- DRK LVL95-99

[Zoner]

Well with 90-95 adjustments almost cemented, except with possible adjustments to Scarlet Delirium(hopefully), we dark knights are looking at the final chance to get what want from SE.

Post what job ability, trait or spell would you like to see added. For me I'd like to see the following:

Job Abilities:

Darkness- This ability has been seen in several final fantasy titles and could be implemented in many ways, my version would be sorta of a combination of the concept of Scarlet Delirium and Sublimation. Upon activating the ability you would be given up to 1 minute to accumulate damage taken, use the ability a second time consumes 20% of your total MP and directs the total amount of damage taken into a single instant dark based attack. If the Devs feel particularly giving, have it inflict double blind(blind plus flash effect) as an added effect.

Unholy Sacrifice- Consumes 1/3rd of your total max HP to do triple the damage of non-elemental damage to the target. Be wary of your remaining HP when using this or it could cost you your life, no exp loss tho

Dark Covenant- Stance type ability, Doubles magic attack power but halves defense.

Spells:

Black Sky- In FFX-2 Dark Knights can learn the spell Black Sky, which deals ten random hits to all enemies,it uses similar animation to the Meteor spell.

Demi- In previous final fantasy titles Demi traditionally took a set percentage of HP from it's target, however in FFXI I'd like to see it as instant cast dark based spell similar to Holy with the added effect of gravity.

Spirit Drain- Drains target of HP and converts it to MP

Ultima- A spell shared with BLM. Non-Elemental, slightly long cast, high damage spell. Damage based off dark magic skill.

Job Traits:

Dark Celerity- Dark magic casting times and recast times are reduced.

Counter Tackle- Random chance to counter-attack after taking damage, monster must be in striking distance

Magical Attack Bonus I- Improves power of magic spells.

[Cljader1]

I would like a 2nd tier line of absorb stat spells, these would be far more potent than our tier I line


Spells

Absorb-Vit II: deals darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's defense and vitality. 50 MP, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time

Absorb-Str II: deal darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's attack and strength. 50mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time.

Absorb-Dex II: deal darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's accuracy and dexerity. 50 mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time

Absorb-Int II: deal darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's magic attack and Intelligence. 50 mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time.

Absorb-Mnd II: deals darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's magic accuracy and mind. 50 mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time.

Absorb-Agi II: deals darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's evasion and agility. 50 mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time.

Absorb-Chr II: deals darkness damage, and absorbs enemy's light resistances and charisma. 50 mp, 2 sec casting time, 90 sec recast time.

[Madawc]

I'll just put this right here

==Scarlet Delirium==
After testing Scarlet Delirium the general concesus is that it should be changed. Here is a few suggestions:

1. Turn it in to a JOB TRAIT that procs if over 50% HP is lost in one blow.


2. Turn it in to a JOB TRAIT that accumulates damage over time in to a "buffer", while it continously decay towards zero. Damage is proportional to the buffer with a cap of +25%. (*prefered)

3. Have the Job Ability proc only for highly damaging attacks (i.e over 50% HP lost).

I would like to see it a job trait. The last thing DRK needs are more abilities to that "pause" our melee swinging.

==Catastrophe==
The aftermath effect is not as valueable it used to be. This is due to the 25% cap on "equipment haste" which now can be reached with gear alone. Here is a few suggestions:

1. Put Catastrophe Aftermath Haste in its own category. Such that it will NOT be restricted by the 25% cap on ability, equipment and magic. (*prefered)

2. Pair Catastrophe Aftermath Haste with Magic Haste. Such that we can use it together with 25% from equipment and 25% from Ability.

Other. An increase in haste in addition to (1). 15% for the Lv95 version. A damage boost would also be much welcomed.

==Critical hit WS==
People who do not posess the Apocalypse would like to have a multi hit WS with a critical hit chance based on TP.

==Spells==
The elemental spells are still useless. None will ever use them, ever. Suggestion:

1. A job trait that gives 75% Fast Cast and 75% Conserve MP for 10 seconds after a Weapon Skill. This would help Dark Knight utilize its spells for Magic Bursts and Absorbs.

Most Dark Knights want a dark equivalent to Holy.

==Equipment==
Can we augment our equipment with "Enchances Souleater effect" and "Enhances Stalwart Soul"? Could these also stack with eachother in multiples?

[Urteil]

Baby steps.

Magic Attack Bonus I Circa 2004.


Can I have it?

[Zoner]

Baby steps.

Magic Attack Bonus I Circa 2004.


Can I have it?

lol i know, its something we should have gotten long ago!

[Geabrielle]

Magic Attack Bonus, I agree. Or at least Magic Accuracy for the Absorbs!
Job Trait - Dark Celerity
Spells - yah we need the ones we have FIXED first

[Nikashi]

I agree with DRKs having the MAB job trait. SE is so focused on making us cast our lolelemental spells, the least they could do is give us Magic Attack Bonus. I like the second tier absorb spells, too. Maybe change Absorb-CHR II from light resistance to magic defense, though. I know that CHR doesn't factor in on MDB (at least I don't think it does), but the option for it would be nice.

[Covenant]

The trouble with MOST of not ALL sub job abilties is that the can be gain by subbing appropriate sub jobs. SE good job planning this out. It's not SE fault players want everything and not willi g to use the sub job systems to the fullest.

For those that don't understand let me try to explain...the sub job system is a system of game balance and player choice. To gain in one area, one must sacrific in another area. Magic and might are polar opposites in this game. If a dark knight wants to captalize on might they need to sub melee jobs. If on the other hand they want to capitalize on magic they need to sacrifice might and sub a magic job. The greater one leans to either side the more lacking they become in the other.

As far as the OP.
Darkness? Huh? Why not just opt for a dark based damage spell? Could even have severals tiers.
Unholy sacrifice.... This actually sounds good, but "non-elemental" damage? Darkness based is bread and butter of a Darkknight.
Dark stance.... Forget it. Stances and 2hour special boost are already played out.
Black sky...no way, Jose. Overpowered.
Demi- I do like the idea, but I'd settle on disease/virus spells such as plague and curse. Curse is after all what Demi is.
Spirit drain- is a wonderful suggestion...however, 95% of DRK DON'T bother casting spells other than drain and stun.
Ultima- this pushing the envelope too much of a dark's casting ability.
Dark celerity- love this. However this falls into the sub job argument. Sub a redmage or scholar for faster casting options.
Counter tackle- sub monk if you want counter. Or get counter gear.

@Cljader... What a wonderful concept. Combine dark damage AND absorb tier 2 spells. Add non-decaying effects for set durations and you would have a perfect suggestions..even going so far and eliminating the need for a "dark" spell.

Just as an aside... I'd like to reiterate my suggestion about "soul eater" being adjusted to work for both melee AND magic spells. Perhaps even slapping a "fast-cast" effect while under the effects of Souleater(at cost of add HP drain for spell use).

[Armangetto]

You guys know we are geting drk magic fast cast and non decaying absorbs / absorbs readjusted right?

[Cljader1]

You guys know we are geting drk magic fast cast and non decaying absorbs / absorbs readjusted right?

Are we getting them in this update? SE moves so slow who know when they'll make this move

[Serei]

5 years from now... HEY all you drk's guess what your dev at SE are finally giving you.... Scythe mastery... enjoy..

love the idea of the teirII absorbs. would be nice if see would fix dread spikes... cause i find it funny that every time i use it.. it seems more like a PD for me...

[Zoner]

The trouble with MOST of not ALL sub job abilties is that the can be gain by subbing appropriate sub jobs. SE good job planning this out. It's not SE fault players want everything and not willi g to use the sub job systems to the fullest.

For those that don't understand let me try to explain...the sub job system is a system of game balance and player choice. To gain in one area, one must sacrific in another area. Magic and might are polar opposites in this game. If a dark knight wants to captalize on might they need to sub melee jobs. If on the other hand they want to capitalize on magic they need to sacrifice might and sub a magic job. The greater one leans to either side the more lacking they become in the other.

As far as the OP.
Darkness? Huh? Why not just opt for a dark based damage spell? Could even have severals tiers.
Unholy sacrifice.... This actually sounds good, but "non-elemental" damage? Darkness based is bread and butter of a Darkknight.
Dark stance.... Forget it. Stances and 2hour special boost are already played out.
Black sky...no way, Jose. Overpowered.
Demi- I do like the idea, but I'd settle on disease/virus spells such as plague and curse. Curse is after all what Demi is.
Spirit drain- is a wonderful suggestion...however, 95% of DRK DON'T bother casting spells other than drain and stun.
Ultima- this pushing the envelope too much of a dark's casting ability.
Dark celerity- love this. However this falls into the sub job argument. Sub a redmage or scholar for faster casting options.
Counter tackle- sub monk if you want counter. Or get counter gear.

@Cljader... What a wonderful concept. Combine dark damage AND absorb tier 2 spells. Add non-decaying effects for set durations and you would have a perfect suggestions..even going so far and eliminating the need for a "dark" spell.

Just as an aside... I'd like to reiterate my suggestion about "soul eater" being adjusted to work for both melee AND magic spells. Perhaps even slapping a "fast-cast" effect while under the effects of Souleater(at cost of add HP drain for spell use).

The majority of what I posted is basically copy and paste of what SE gave dark knights in previous installments of Final Fantasy.

Darkness has almost always been a job ability rather then a spell, also consider how much easier it would be able to use it while a monster is beating on you rather then a spell. As for having several tiers I highly doubt SE is going to completely overhaul DRK, they tend to take the easiest way out.

Dark Covenant is a spin on Covenant taken from Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon in which it doubles attack power but halves defense. SE never did give DRK a stance type ability, so I thought if SE gives us some meaningful spells, wouldn't you like some way to maximize their potential without it being a single shot deal like Nether Void or Dark Seal?

Your right about Unholy Sacrifice being dark based, it's taken from Final Fantasy Tactics, but I would rather see it be non-elemental like Mijin Gakure because SE has coded almost all the monsters in FFXI to resist dark based attacks as a counter to the days in which people abused the sleep spell.

Why have Black Sky? Because SE never gave us any good dark based attack spells much less a aoe spell. If I wanted to include something that was overpowered I would of included the spell Apocalypse in which it does does massive non-elemental damage, approximately twice as much as Ultima, around 4,000+ minimum.

Demi because one of the spells most wanted spells is a dark based alternative to holy. My version in more like higher tier of gravity in which it does damage plus give weight effect. Why not give this to red mage you might say? Because we are supposed to be the masters of dark magic.

How many exp/merit parties do you get put into a group with no refresh and fighting a mob with no native MP pool? Even just using stun and drain your eventually gonna run out of MP, not to mention if you use dread spikes. That is where Spirit Drain could really help.

Ultima is more of wishful thinking, I doubt SE would give it to us but hey I can dream right? On a side note I realize in FFXI SE prefers spells to have an elemental affiliation, so if it being non-elemental is a problem how about making it so its affiliation changes depending on the day; ie cast it on a Earth Day its earth based, cast it on a Light Day its light based, cast it on a Fire Day its fire based,etc so it always gets the day of the week bonus.

Dark Celerity because.... do you really wanna sub red mage?

Counter Tackle is taken from Final Fantasy Tactics and is not the same as counter. Counter cancels a targets attack with an attack of your own. Counter Tackle more resembles the Counter Attack Materia in FFVII in which you still take damage but get a chance to retaliate with a physical attack of your own, it matters not if the damage taken is physical, spell, or other.

I do agree, however, that Cljader's suggestions on tier II absorbs are very good.

[Yukichibi]

Demi- In previous final fantasy titles Demi traditionally took a set percentage of HP from it's target, however in FFXI I'd like to see it as instant cast dark based spell similar to Holy with the added effect of gravity.





Holy

Final Fantasy Tactics

Learned by the White Mage, Holy is White Magic that costs 600 JP to learn. It costs 56 MP to use and has a speed of 17. Unlike many offensive spells in the game which can be learned by the player, Holy ignores all of the target's magic evasion, unless the target has immunity against holy-elemental. Holy is also considered to be the best attack spell to be calculated.

Unholy Darkness, also known as Dark Holy, is a Dark-elemental based version of the Holy spell. It targets a single square, with no extended range and ignores magickal evasions. The animation sequence is the same as Holy but in black and violet tone, accompanied by deeper sound effect and a crow's caw. The spell is not available to any playable character, but is instead accessible to Archaeodaemons and Ultima Demons, minions of the Lucavi. Knight Templar Sorcerer Cletienne Duroi can also use Unholy Darkness.

In the PS version, there is also a chance that the caster will chant, "Bright light, shine down on bloody impurity! Holy!", and "Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy!", for Dark Holy.

Already exist in previous FF, so why not.

[Taint2]

How much better would DRK be if: Endark and Dread spikes were JAs instead of magic.

[Armangetto]

To: Cljader1 I dont think we are geting the dark magic fast cast or the absorb fixes this update, but they did mention we were eventuly going to get them. My bet... either the next mini update or the lvl 99 cap.

[Urteil]

You guys know we are geting drk magic fast cast and non decaying absorbs / absorbs readjusted right?

No we are going to get Tactical Parry II.

[Armangetto]

They are also going to readjust the rate of parry and guard skill up as well as redo everyones parry rankings.I dunno why people asking for dark celberity, absorbs fixes and better parry skill when SE said they are going to do that for us? Its like people forgot about it.

Ill just drop this here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11544-DRK-Adjustments-via-Manifesto/page26

[Urteil]

They are also going to readjust the rate of parry and guard skill up as well as redo everyones parry rankings.I dunno why people asking for dark celberity, absorbs fixes and better parry skill when SE said they are going to do that for us? Its like people forgot about it.

Ill just drop this here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11544-DRK-Adjustments-via-Manifesto/page26


SE says a lot of things.


And does none of them.

[Chriscoffey]

SE says a lot of things.


And does none of them.
Oh they do for the jobs they love but after that 2nd crew came in dark is in the toilet and will remain there.

[Kam]

Make Guillotine or Insurgency a crit ws.
Do nothing else to DRK.
DRK is acceptable again.

[Geabrielle]

For the love of Altana making 2 WS crit based isn't going to change a blasted thing save for time in Abyssea....

Moving on, because as instantly gratifying as it was, it's not the end all - be all. Give it time, adjustments are in the works, some of which have been implemented on the test server, for those with access and giving much needed and insightful feedback.

[Dart]

For the love of Altana making 2 WS crit based isn't going to change a blasted thing save for time in Abyssea....

Moving on, because as instantly gratifying as it was, it's not the end all - be all. Give it time, adjustments are in the works, some of which have been implemented on the test server, for those with access and giving much needed and insightful feedback.

spoken like someone who truly has no clue about melee mechanics.

[Selzak]

We need something that lets us get more use out of our offensive spells.

Drain is really our only good offensive spell.

We need something that randomly resets the cool-down of Dark Magic spells after they are cast, so that once every 3~5 Drains we can cast another immediately after.

Also, Blood Weapon should be made into a 5% job trait, and we should get a new 2HR that does something worthy of a 2HR JA. Blood Weapon was good for the elite DRKs of years past with KC zerging, but SE didn't like our attempts to get some use out of it and nerfed it on everything. That's understandable, I guess... but you should at least replace it with something different instead of just reiterating its uselessness.

For level 99, we need a devastating (and exclusive) offensive Dark Magic spell or else the job will never amount to anything other than a gimp WAR.


So...
New 2HR (Maybe something similar to SMN's Odin, but more accurate and not AoE)
Job Trait: Blood Weapon
Job Trait: (Occasionally resets the recast on Dark Magic spells after casting)
Spell: Demi (Something in the vein of AM, functioning very situationally for nuking situations and mostly just as a toy for big numbers). Maybe with an additional effect of strong DoT, like BLU's Disseverment offers them.


I don't know why we're even taking the time to post these ideas to be honest though. They don't care at all, and the only time they do happen to acknowledge feedback it's from the Japanese players.

[Saiken253]

I absolutely love drk. It's my favorite job in the game, and it saddens me to no end just how unloved it is by it's creators. I have thought of and read many spectacular ideas to help improve drk, and here's some of them:

2-handed Weapon Mastery[Job Trait](has been mentioned: There have been many different versions of this thought of, and here's 1 that I enjoy);
-Reduced delay, Enhanced Store TP(to offset the reduced delay), and a damage bonus with all attacks
when using a 2-handed weapon.

Bloody Road[Job Trait]: The higher a DRK's hp(%) the greater their damage. However, as the DRK's HP lowers the damage bonus decreases, but the delay of their weapons decrease.

Dark Celerity(has been mentioned): Again, to make our dark spells cast faster and cost less(as well as vastly reduced recast times).

Victimize[Job Ability]: Transfers the Dark Knight's hate to an ally(probably at most 50%).

Demonic Fury[Job Ability]: The next offensive action the Dark Knight takes' potency is tripled(physical or magical).

Ultimate Weapon[2hr]: Duration - 30sec; all forms of damage the Dark Knight deals is tripled.

Blood Weapon[Job Trait]: as the way people have suggested.

Murk, Murk II, Murk III, Murk IV, MurkV[Dark Magic]: deals darkness based damage(i.e. our dark nukes we've been crying for).

Demi[Dark Magic](mentioned before): Not dealing a damage% of the target's HP(for MMO purposes), but this should definitely be the epitome of the dark nukes(and would of course be somewhat costly with high cast recast, and definitely situational).

Tier 2 absorbs(as mentioned earlier)

Now I know some of these sound a little OP, but they don't have to be(they can be tweaked! that's what discussion is for!). I have loved drk since before I began playing FFXI and it saddens me just how it keeps getting the short end of the stick. Though I know other jobs have seen less love/attention, but they are still much better off than DRK(looking at you solo king SMN~ <3~)! And just something to help all Melee jobs(and those crazy melee mages, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!) just simply make every single WS in the game have a normal chance to critical hit! It makes sense! Why can I crit on normal swings but not my WS? shouldn't I have more focus during my WS to perform these special attacks than a normal swing? Making every WS having a possibility to land crits would keep things level, and would bring many DDs back up to par. And if SE is worried about all those lovely crit WSs, just give them a higher chance to crit with TP(and starting off with a higher crit rate).

Also, I never believed in the whole sacrifice idea. No sacrifice can bring something good enough unless the ratio or loss/gain is 1/1000 imo. This goes for drk as well. SE keeps trying to make DRKs these brash fools that have a fancy for taking damage with little to nothing to show for it. I have always thought of DRKs to be more... vampiric or demonic, but not insane(i only say demonic because of the armor). Anyways those are my ideas of how to specifically make drk better(as well as the game as a whole with the WSs part...).

/em braces for the trolls

[Selzak]

I really feel like DRK should excel more at magical DoT. Bio II is not useless with high Dark Magic skill, but when you compare it to something like Disseverment it's not even notable. I feel like if DRK can't use its magic to deal damage, then it should at least be the king of using spells to decay a mob's HP over time.

Maybe this could be the direction of our exclusive dark-based nuke. Moderate damage, but with the added effect of huge damage over time.

After all, DRK is supposed to "use its magic to torment its foes" isn't it?

[StingRay104]

I really feel like DRK should excel more at magical DoT. Bio II is not useless with high Dark Magic skill, but when you compare it to something like Disseverment it's not even notable. I feel like if DRK can't use its magic to deal damage, then it should at least be the king of using spells to decay a mob's HP over time.

Maybe this could be the direction of our exclusive dark-based nuke. Moderate damage, but with the added effect of huge damage over time.

After all, DRK is supposed to "use its magic to torment its foes" isn't it?

SCH says HI!!!

You are misguided on that front man. As for anyone who brings up demi there is no reason to ever suggest that a spell with that name should be used in a MMO except for HNMs, for purposes of game balance reasons. Their are plenty of more acceptable names so I really got to ask why is it always demi. Finally DRK isn't supposed to "torture" its foes with its magic its supposed to hinder its opponents with its magic while increasing his own advantage IE, your hp is higher than mine, Drain not anymore, or absorb str now your weaker and I'm stronger. Now one could argue this as being torture but its not so much as it is "vampiric" if you will and it is the main reason for a DRK to even have magic. Spells like bio, poison, or any elemental spells are just a side effect of being infused with the arcane arts, true they have their uses but they aren't meant to be the showcase of the jobs capabilities. If anything we should protest 4 things, 1. Absorbs be unerfed, undecayable, and able to stack with anyother buffs. 2. Scarlet Delirium be removed, or fixed in any of the numerous forms presented in the forums, IE made so that its actually usable 40% or more of the time instead of a fraction of 1%. 3. Give us greater damaging abilities or god forbid make our high attack bonus actually mean something. 4. Remove Retaliation and Restraint from the war JA list and put them on DRK where they were supposed to go in the first place.

[Zoner]

SCH says HI!!!

You are misguided on that front man. As for anyone who brings up demi there is no reason to ever suggest that a spell with that name should be used in a MMO except for HNMs, for purposes of game balance reasons. Their are plenty of more acceptable names so I really got to ask why is it always demi. Finally DRK isn't supposed to "torture" its foes with its magic its supposed to hinder its opponents with its magic while increasing his own advantage IE, your hp is higher than mine, Drain not anymore, or absorb str now your weaker and I'm stronger. Now one could argue this as being torture but its not so much as it is "vampiric" if you will and it is the main reason for a DRK to even have magic. Spells like bio, poison, or any elemental spells are just a side effect of being infused with the arcane arts, true they have their uses but they aren't meant to be the showcase of the jobs capabilities. If anything we should protest 4 things, 1. Absorbs be unerfed, undecayable, and able to stack with anyother buffs. 2. Scarlet Delirium be removed, or fixed in any of the numerous forms presented in the forums, IE made so that its actually usable 40% or more of the time instead of a fraction of 1%. 3. Give us greater damaging abilities or god forbid make our high attack bonus actually mean something. 4. Remove Retaliation and Restraint from the war JA list and put them on DRK where they were supposed to go in the first place.

My version of Demi makes complete sense in FFXI as a higher tier of gravity that does instant damage + weight effect. Why you ask? Because in previous iterations of Final Fantasy Gravity is Demi, or at least a variant of it. Of course in FFXI it would not take percentage of HP like it did in the past, but a set amount of damage.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_%28Element%29

[Lordscyon]

DRK should get NINJA 2hr since DRK its all about Death and emo stuff.

[Selzak]

SCH says HI!!!

You are misguided on that front man. As for anyone who brings up demi there is no reason to ever suggest that a spell with that name should be used in a MMO except for HNMs, for purposes of game balance reasons. Their are plenty of more acceptable names so I really got to ask why is it always demi. Finally DRK isn't supposed to "torture" its foes with its magic its supposed to hinder its opponents with its magic while increasing his own advantage IE, your hp is higher than mine, Drain not anymore, or absorb str now your weaker and I'm stronger. Now one could argue this as being torture but its not so much as it is "vampiric" if you will and it is the main reason for a DRK to even have magic. Spells like bio, poison, or any elemental spells are just a side effect of being infused with the arcane arts, true they have their uses but they aren't meant to be the showcase of the jobs capabilities. If anything we should protest 4 things, 1. Absorbs be unerfed, undecayable, and able to stack with anyother buffs. 2. Scarlet Delirium be removed, or fixed in any of the numerous forms presented in the forums, IE made so that its actually usable 40% or more of the time instead of a fraction of 1%. 3. Give us greater damaging abilities or god forbid make our high attack bonus actually mean something. 4. Remove Retaliation and Restraint from the war JA list and put them on DRK where they were supposed to go in the first place.
Eh, names are just names. It's the abilities and spells themselves that I think people are trying to present. I don't think Retaliation or Restraint belongs on DRK at all...Blood Rage, probably. Your point is well taken though, WAR did manage to steal a lot of DRK's repertoire I think- like two similar political candidates or something.

As far as DRK and DoT is concerned, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think a DoT is a "hindering" effect, and I think that this opens a good opportunity for DRK to use the offensive magic that it's supposed to have. It wouldn't step on BLM's toes at all because it would work over time and not be a super-powerful nuke.

I'm thinking a spell that does ~500-700 dmg and lands a powerful DoT would be the perfect "ultimate" dark magic nuke without turning DRK into a BLM that can melee well.

Another way to get us casting (and this is really the issue that I want to address- I'm tired of feeling like a gimp WAR, and I don't even want to feel like a good WAR...I want to feel like a good DRK) would be to give us some kind of trait that occasionally (like 25% imo, but testing would show the best place to put it) reduces the recast on Dark Magic spells to 0:00 after casting them.

Drain, Drain II, and Stun are all fantastic spells and are almost the sole reason why we even use MP on DRK. There's a problem here, though. The recasts on these spells are so high, that these capabilities are not allowed to define the job and are more like "special" abilities that our gimp WAR gets to use every now and then. Stun is fair I guess, but since Stun was DRK's biggest utility throughout most of the game and now it has no advantage with it- it'd be nice if we got an extra one every so often.

Drain is the biggest problem IMO. At level 10 - 30ish Drain is a very useful spell and it makes DRK a very fun and interesting job to play, its power/MP ratio stays top-notch... but by level 95 the effects of this spell are simply not significant enough to mean anything once every 60 seconds. Either the formula for Drain and Drain II need to be adjusted (this is probably the root of the problem) or we should be allowed to cast them more often (this would be the more fun option).

Blood Weapon is not a 2003+ 2HR ability. Some DRKs made up for this when we were able to get our hands on a Kraken Club, but then every NM gained immunity to it and our 2HR was indirectly nerfed back into worthlessness. Blood Weapon is an effect that belongs in our Job Traits as our 'magical' form of WAR's Double Attack Trait. The Blood Weapon rate should probably be similar (similarly meritable too) to THF's Triple Attack Trait. Blood Weapon should properly "Drain" the mob's HP, dealing damage as well as restoring the player's- but it should have moderate resist rate (nothing crazy...there's no reason for it to suck.)


As far as melee is concerned...I believe that's only a problem because we don't have the right abilities/freedom to use our abilities to do anything but try and melee like a WAR. If the devs would really take a few moments to sit down with the idea of DRK and what its role should be in the game, I think they'd see that giving the job some unique, useful capabilities that define its place and make it presence necessary (or just...wanted) would end the idea that DRK ought to be dealing melee damage consistently like any other job can (which is hard to reconcile). You can't blame us though- you've made us play gimp WAR for years, it's the only way we can see the job now.



If nothing else, why not just toss some different ideas onto the test server? This goes for PLD (which I don't even play) and DRK both. The jobs are obviously not where they should be, so why not just brainstorm and toss some interesting and creative ideas out there and see how it works? If it's overpowered, you can nerf it; if it doesn't fit, you can remove it; if it works, solution! At least you can say you gave a shit that way.

[StingRay104]

Restraint originally allowed your ws's to gain more power the more times you struck an opponent and it cost you the ability to crit. At the time war already had some crit builds and with mighty strikes as its 2hr this made no sense in fact the whole concept was perfect for DRK. As for retaliation I stand by the grounds that DRK is meant to be the ultimate blade and that retaliation is an ability that lets you take damage to deal more damage which is perfect for DRKs image, plus someone brought up that a similar ability was used in past FF games on DRK.

As for the DRK king of dot spells, again SCH SAYS HI!!!!!!!

Sch already fills this role in both dark, elemental, divine, and even curative. Schs lot in life is blm and whm jr that focuses on the dot spells. It really would be completely pointless to try to fix DRK by stepping onto schs toes.

As for the name my original point still remains valid, there are far better names for darkness based nukes and the past versions of demi make it impossible as a player spell in the mmo setting, unless you want DRK to be completely broken. Zoner's concept of a darkness based nuke that inflicts gravity could work as a good substitue for the broken version of demi but honestly all we really need is the spell gravity on our list, unless your suggesting DRKs higher tiers of this spell have greater effects than gravity which would cause rdms to go into an uproar, idk why its not like they use the spell anyways cept to kite.

Blood rage I will always say should be a thief ability and just like retaliation and restraint, should never have been given to war. Its really as if they aren't even trying to make any other jobs good just the select few.

I honestly don't mind Blood Weapon, although I agree it shouldn't be a 2hr, more like a 10 min ability and a jt as well (war can use a ja to proc DA why can't we use the same to proc BW, granted theres can be used on ws so I think having our 30 sec duration would still fit the bill), doing this would help bring some balance back to DRK. Problem I keep running into is what should we have in BWs place as a 2hr. I got it how about a a 2hr that makes Scarlet Diarrhea not suck, it could be a 2hr duration with a 2hr recast that way our 2hr would be useful, or they could just fix the ability, seriously I'd take either from SE.

DRKs spells have big problems, mainly the fact most of our job specific spells are useless and the rest have ridiculous recast times or have been nerfed. If we truly want to talk about DRKs niche it should be with spells that mimic Impact. Impact is the perfect DRK spell, it has unique enfeebs, it does great damage even on DRK, and it has a casting cost of 666 which is a fantastic number for DRK, cept if you actually want to use the spell often. I have always supported the concept of DRK specific ele nukes that also enfeeb the target in the same way, for instance a fire nuke that drops opponents str, you could stack this with absorb str and really cripple an opponent. I have also found the suggestion of t2 absorbs to be most excellent, a more potent verions of absorb spells but they also drain a supportive stat like str and att. Let them stack with base absorbs and the new elemental spells and DRK would be welcomed in any circle.

Finally melee. DRK is the ultimate blade, when a DRK goes all out he can outdamage any other job but at huge cost, IE nearly killing himself in the process. The jack of all trades melee war should never have been king of dd's in fact I wish SE would nerf them back a peg or two and give it some more defensive abilities so it can once again bridge that gap of being dd or tank but not both at same time. DRK was always intended to be the heavy hitter, don't believe me check out our tiers of attack bonus. Problems arose with the first teams overall lack of giving DRK anything significant to truly arise in this department, plus the whole BW SE KC solution to defeating AV really ticked them off (If they were smart they would of given us some good solid clues on how to beat him legitly instead of us using glitches or KC DRKs to solve the problem). Then the team moved to the abysmal failure known as FF14 (it doesn't even deserve roman numerals its so bad) and we got a new team that really understood the game and was able to fix a few jobs, IE Drg never had a niche til this team came in, but due to there sucess and FF14's failure they got moved to 14 and the guys who made abyssea step in. Now it all makes sense, abyssea is for only 5 jobs and this team is only capable of buffing these 5 jobs so it shouldn't be a surprise that we get scarlet diarrhea. Anyways I've completely lost topic now so I'm just gonna close with melee is our cake and spells are the icing on the cake and right now we get worlds smallest cupcake compared to wars 7 layer ultimate wedding cake for the Queen.

[Selzak]

It's not like a DRK is going to be picked over a SCH because it has a DoT spell. Obviously they'd stack, and I don't think these two jobs could ever step on eachothers' toes. I just don't think the devs have been able to give DRK a big, useful nuke for balance/MP reasons, and turning it into moderate damage with high damage over time would fit the job and game balance.

[Dart]

I agree with the sentiment stingray, I hope they continue to fix my favorite job and make it more of a melee threat (which is honestly all that I care about I make my spell selection work and work well).

[Urteil]

I agree with the sentiment stingray, I hope they continue to fix my favorite job and make it more of a melee threat (which is honestly all that I care about I make my spell selection work and work well).

Its too bad you don't have a Bravura or a Conqueror.

[Dart]

at a quick look they made conq comparable to ukon only if you can save up to 300 tp everytime without fail (which overall isn't hard to do but it does really hurt your ws/tp split a great deal). I haven't figured it up yet just how close they both are now or aren't.

Bravura is dead deal with it

Personally I'm really liking the aegis update out of them all so far. We just finished our 95 aegis/apoc/yochi's. My ls is a pretty serious voidwatch ls so our aegis should get a lot of use especially with how the harder VW stuff likes to spam the hell out of high tier ga/ja spells. I think that pld can get up to -95+% magical dmg taken with 95 aegis. Its pretty beefy. Haven't checked to see if they upped block rate again or not.

[Jar]

at a quick look they made conq comparable to ukon only if you can save up to 300 tp everytime without fail (which overall isn't hard to do but it does really hurt your ws/tp split a great deal). I haven't figured it up yet just how close they both are now or aren't.

Bravura is dead deal with it

Personally I'm really liking the aegis update out of them all so far. We just finished our 95 aegis/apoc/yochi's. My ls is a pretty serious voidwatch ls so our aegis should get a lot of use especially with how the harder VW stuff likes to spam the hell out of high tier ga/ja spells. I think that pld can get up to -95+% magical dmg taken with 95 aegis. Its pretty beefy. Haven't checked to see if they upped block rate again or not.

Our LS aegis said they didn't up block rate =/

[Urteil]

at a quick look they made conq comparable to ukon only if you can save up to 300 tp everytime without fail (which overall isn't hard to do but it does really hurt your ws/tp split a great deal). I haven't figured it up yet just how close they both are now or aren't.

Bravura is dead deal with it

Personally I'm really liking the aegis update out of them all so far. We just finished our 95 aegis/apoc/yochi's. My ls is a pretty serious voidwatch ls so our aegis should get a lot of use especially with how the harder VW stuff likes to spam the hell out of high tier ga/ja spells. I think that pld can get up to -95+% magical dmg taken with 95 aegis. Its pretty beefy. Haven't checked to see if they upped block rate again or not.

Good grief, Charlie brown.

Fwoosh.

[Ryanx]

i would like to see abosrb attack

[Dart]

you semi wooshed yourself. Conq is actually comparable to ukon now lol

[Urteil]

you semi wooshed yourself. Conq is actually comparable to ukon now lol

Duh. 567890

[Dart]

if you truly knew that you would not have stated it the way that you did. I give it a 4/10 for attempted cover up!

[Urteil]

if you truly knew that you would not have stated it the way that you did. I give it a 4/10 for attempted cover up!

You're dumb, it doesn't matter to me what you have as long as its an Axe and you get to smash things, and smack your WS macro with reckless abandon.

It could have been a Bhuj, or it could have been the relic or mythic weapons that I just pulled off the top of my head, that seem to suit the job you're looking for.

I never said anything about comparing them, I don't care to. Obviously you want to play warrior so here's two weapons that might tickle your fancy.

And you know a lot about them, more than me notably, whats the hold up.

[Zoner]

We need more talk about improving Dark Knight and less talk about WAR

[Selzak]

We need more talk about improving Dark Knight and less talk about WAR
Why? The devs don't seem to care what we think. I've really just given up until they begin to indicate that they care, because I have a very strong feeling that the entire concept of DRK just doesn't interest them (so they don't think about it like SCH or SAM).

If anything, we need to focus on defining what DRK should be. The idea of begging for more damage buffs until we can deal more damage than WAR or MNK is a lost cause, and it's gotten the job stuck in some kind of limbo of being a good DD that offers absolutely nothing over other jobs (that are better at DD, or everything else, or both.)

I think we need to focus on the everything else. DRK needs to be pushed into a niche, and it needs to happen quick. The last time I felt super excited about what DRK 'was', was when I unlocked the job in 2004 or something and fell in love with Drain and Aspir. Those spells (or Drain at least, and Drain II as well with its ridiculous recast) are frankly outdated at level 95. Drain has been outdated for a while. They just don't sway battles like they were intended to anymore, and everything that the job is supposed to be capable of is set up so that it's more of a gimmick than an actual aspect of the job. When I cast Drain on DRK now, it's usually because the timer is finally up and it's efficient- it never feels like the part of the job it was supposed to be.

Absorb-TP is cool on paper, and it was hugely welcomed when it came out, but they nerfed it into uselessness.

Blood Weapon sounds like a life-saver when you're level 10, but it's not a proper 2hr by the time you're 75 and it'll barely even save you on an EXP mob.

For a long time, even our defining abilities, Souleater and Last Resort, were in the same boat. They finally fixed this, which is awesome, and would have 'fixed' the job at level 50 or so.


So what is DRK supposed to be?

In my opinion, we should have access to a lot more of the huge collection of potentially very interesting and unique dark magic spells. If DRK is a Warrior trained in the dark arts, it really half-assed its training. This aspect of the job is probably the most lacking, and I feel like DRK should bring some unique (debilitating) utility to a party. Dark magic, and maybe DRK itself, is supposed to be very powerful, and very different- playing by different rules in order to keep balance in either direction (more or less powerful). The developers have, frankly, not been creative enough with this missing aspect of our job.

So many of our interesting abilities and spells were either too powerful and thus lazily nerfed, or are potentially too powerful and lazily left overly weakened. Absorb-TP, Dread Spikes, Scarlet Delirium, Blood Weapon, (Souleater and Last Resort for a long time- thanks!), Drain (the formula has not aged well at all), Drain II, our entire line of Absorb spells, lolelemental spells, ...what's left?
En-Dark works, that's one I guess. Got to give credit where it's due for Souleater and Last Resort too.

We don't need more traits or abilities to deal damage. We may not be the best, but we're very good at it. We do need a pure damage spell(s) though. We should be focusing on adding and /or adjusting (I think adjusting alone would go a very long way) abilities/traits/spells that make the job more useful, not make its DD peen bigger. I'd rather a BW trait than a critical-hit rate trait, and I'd rather a Terror ability over this Scarlet Delirium crap. DRK has absolutely no vision right now, and it's partially because we refuse to see it as anything but PWNAGE GUILLOTEEN!! numbers in the chat log. Instead of tip-toeing on the line between gimmicky and overpowered DD (the former of which is where we've been stuck 90% of the time), we should be satisfied with very good DD and something else.


tl;dr
You're wasting your time (and the job's potential) by focusing on nothing but damage.

The developers can not (and will not, because they aren't interested in the job) define DRK- but we haven't helped. We should start. I actually got really excited for a split second when I first saw the idea of boosting DRK's elemental WS damage and pushing it its own, distinct direction...until I thought about it the next split second and realized how terrible it would actually be. We really don't want them coming up with our job's direction by themselves.

[Selzak]

Sorry for the double post, but I figure I might as well share some of my thoughts on actual adjustments and wanted to do it separately.

These are pretty much listed in order of importance to me, and are not meant to be taken all together. Most of them are completely separate ideas and should be treated that way- I'm not advocating that DRK needs all of these things at once, just that each/any of them would be good for the job.

Job Trait: Quick Magic (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Quick_Magic)
This would do two things:
1. Not make it a waste of time to cast spells, sometimes.
2. Provide some more utility with Drains and Stuns with the occasional reset on recast time.
The proc rate and/or effect of this trait can even be adjusted relative to specific spells for balance. The main idea here is to revive our Stun utility and the impact of Drains.

Job Trait: Blood Weapon
With a 5% proc rate and open to partial resists. Should be a proper drain that deals damage, it's essentially a weaker Double Attack that restores HP.

Job Trait: Abyssal Soul
Increases the effects of Drain and Aspir.

Job Ability: Scarlet Delirium
Adjust this to store damage taken for a short time, and reflect some percentage of that on the user's next weapon skill. It's just wasting space as it stands currently.

Job Ability: Abyssal Strike
An elemental attack that terrorizes the enemy.
Mediocre damage, and inconsistent effect of Terror. The Terror effect shouldn't miss outright, but depending on level-check and whatnot it should last anywhere from 0.5 - 5 seconds. Don't tell me this is overpowered, I have a 95BLU and I've casted Sudden Lunge.

Spell: Absorb-STR(etc...)
Two adjustments:
1. Remove the decay, it's not even close to being overpowered calm down.
2. In conjunction with the Quick Cast trait, allow these spells to stack just once. The potential to double the effects of these spells would allow us to consider casting them at higher levels.

Spell: Absorb-TP
Adjust this to make it worth the time and MP it costs to cast. It was a bit overpowered when it was released (probably wouldn't be today), but the nerf killed it instead of balancing it.

Spell: Dread Spikes
Instead of making this last a maximum of 60 seconds and completely negate damage, weaken it and increase its duration. It's fine to make it wear off after absorbing a certain amount of damage (fine as is), but casting it and knowing that it'll wear off in 60 seconds no matter what is just annoying.

[Ophannus]

Quick Magic might be bad sometimes as it doesn't allow the game to take into account any gear you might normally swap into mid cast like Dark Skill or INT stuff. Drains have aged quite well as Drain 1 takes about 350ish HP. Not bad for a 21mp spell.

[Selzak]

Quick Magic might be bad sometimes as it doesn't allow the game to take into account any gear you might normally swap into mid cast like Dark Skill or INT stuff. Drains have aged quite well as Drain 1 takes about 350ish HP. Not bad for a 21mp spell.
Yes, it's MP efficient. Exactly like I said.

However, 350ish HP every 60 seconds amounts to jack at level 95 (or 75 for that matter).

[Jar]

Yes, it's MP efficient. Exactly like I said.

However, 350ish HP every 60 seconds amounts to jack at level 95 (or 75 for that matter).

Drain Damage caps at 300 skill(THIS IS DMG NOT MAGIC ACCURACY)

and caped damage is a random number of 350~400

60 is max casting time also much more reasonable to put that it is about 350~ dmg every 40 sec still bad but at least correct.

drain 2 testing put it in about the same ballpark if anyone cared~ with about a 50HP lead in potency.
References (http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2010/07/increasing-drain-potency.html)

[Anathiel]

Great ideas zoner, keep 'em coming!

[Zoner]

In other news SE is giving PUPs Absorb-Attri and Dread Spikes... (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16004-Questions-for-the-Community-Rep-Moogles?p=212820#post212820)

[Chriscoffey]

In other news SE is giving PUPs Absorb-Attri and Dread Spikes... (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16004-Questions-for-the-Community-Rep-Moogles?p=212820#post212820)
Yeah and i keep seeing the damn QQ bullshit about how darks should just shut the hell up about anything and everything we talk about here. This game needs to go back to 03-04 settings so I can eat popcorn and watch the people who talk about dark knights asking WHY SE WHY to them emo quit because SE didn't have a hard on for every other job.

[Jar]

In other news SE is giving PUPs Absorb-Attri and Dread Spikes... (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16004-Questions-for-the-Community-Rep-Moogles?p=212820#post212820)

stop QQing pup is a job too and it getting spells is just fucking dandy it should get Helix spells too

[Urteil]

stop QQing pup is a job too and it getting spells is just fucking dandy it should get Helix spells too

PUP is a PUP, not a DRK or a SCH.


Comet, Tier V nukes, Dispel, Blind, Bio III, Voidstorm and every Helix Nativley on DRK too prs.

[Jar]

PUP is a PUP, not a DRK or a SCH.


Comet, Tier V nukes, Dispel, Blind, Bio III, Voidstorm and every Helix Nativley on DRK too prs.

Autos are not limited by job classes good try tho. also pup already gets DRK Absorb-int why didnt you cry about that

[Dart]

You're dumb, it doesn't matter to me what you have as long as its an Axe and you get to smash things, and smack your WS macro with reckless abandon.

It could have been a Bhuj, or it could have been the relic or mythic weapons that I just pulled off the top of my head, that seem to suit the job you're looking for.

I never said anything about comparing them, I don't care to. Obviously you want to play warrior so here's two weapons that might tickle your fancy.

And you know a lot about them, more than me notably, whats the hold up.

ah ha now trying to use a different means to cover it up, how sly of you sir!

[Dart]

chris finish your scythe, the shit is broken now at 95. I'm on drk 100% of the time for VW again and yea....its just insane (the dmg). I haven't used my caladbolg since 95 update and probably never will again outside GS procs.

So bloody happy with drk dmg output now that I don't even care about magic anymore lol.

[Urteil]

chris finish your scythe, the shit is broken now at 95. I'm on drk 100% of the time for VW again and yea....its just insane (the dmg). I haven't used my caladbolg since 95 update and probably never will again outside GS procs.

So bloody happy with drk dmg output now that I don't even care about magic anymore lol.

That's simply because you lack the INT to use it. Which isn't surprising.

[Chriscoffey]

chris finish your scythe, the shit is broken now at 95. I'm on drk 100% of the time for VW again and yea....its just insane (the dmg). I haven't used my caladbolg since 95 update and probably never will again outside GS procs.

So bloody happy with drk dmg output now that I don't even care about magic anymore lol.
I keep trying but i have been working too much.

[Zoner]

Wow SE, really? All we get is Thunder III?

[Urteil]

Yep.

Level 99 patience sure was worth it.

Incoming Tactical Parry II, and another tier of Useless Ocumen!

[Hextitan]

I think SE isn't so dumb that they'd add 96-99 without giving 90% of the jobs (including DRK obviously) something substantial. I assume the list they gave isn't complete. This is another prime example of SE completely dropping the ball when it comes to relaying info though, who in their right mind would leak an incomplete list knowing full well some people will rage because they didn't get anything new? It's like SE wants people to quit.

[Urteil]

We already have an ability that is subpar at best, that relies on us killing ourselves, lasts for an lolminute and is lackluster: Scarlet Delirium.

The only step beyond this is giving us a JA that physically kills ourselves to boost the remaining members of our party. I'm always thinking that it can't go down, but in reality it can.

Our tier 3 merits are going to augment arcane crest, and increase TP gained during Tactical Parry.


SE just give us an ability that converts mp/hp to TP and be done with it, holy shit its not that hard.