Current Limit Break Quest *95*

[Gokku]

Genkai Quest *info only*

As it stands it was posted on BG that the Genkai quest is * Please note ALL info is subject to change if SE changes it for the patch day or on the test server*

For those on the test server who would like to help you should be able to visit a goblin footprint and review the quest to see what item was asked of you.

10 Merit points
1 Kindred Crest
1 Item from an undetermined list items reported to far are :

Valkurm Sunsand
Magicked Skull
Damselfly Worm
Crab Apron
Bloody Robe
Dhalmel Saliva
Wild Rabbit Tail
Orcish Axe * low level orcs*
Faded Crystal *trade any crystal to the cop telel crystal*
Block of Yagudo caulk * http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Yagudo_Caulk *
Orcish Armour Plate * http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Orcish_Armor_Plate *
Quadav Backscale
Dangruf Stone
Sirens tear * have to have no wep / gloves on? near port bastok exit*

followed by a time based mini game.

Sauce

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4774604

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4771610

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...d-%2890-cap%29

[Korpg]

Sources?or GTFO.

[Gokku]

updated OP with link so people can see it.

[Alhanelem]

Just get on the test server. No need to rely on a third party.

[Gokku]

Just get on the test server. No need to rely on a third party.

yes because every one is on the test server ... the info is for all

[Fredjan]

Worth mentioning: The level 95 cap quest is automatically completed on the test server if you set a job level to 91+. I noticed it in my completed quests under the Jeuno section.

[Korpg]

updated OP with link so people can see it.

Do you have better sources than BG? I still don't believe that is the limit quest.

[Greatguardian]

better sources than BG?

Like what? A direct walkthrough from the Devs?

[Korpg]

Like what? A direct walkthrough from the Devs?

Something that isn't speculation from either a translated .dat mine from the test server or what somebody "thinks" is going to happen on a semi-informative website like BG.

I want verifiable proof. It is more reliable than guessing. Show me what the limit break is, and where you found it, and I'll go look it up (verify) and see for myself (proof).

[Kimble]

Just because you got banned from BG doesnt mean its not a creditable source.

Really doubt people would make up stuff over something like this.

[Gokku]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4771610&viewfull=1#post4771610

doesnt get more "proof" then the direct log from the game.

[Darkzeru]

Um.....picture? lol

[Alhanelem]

yes because every one is on the test server ... the info is for all
Thats why I suggested to go on the test server. It's not like you can't. I find it hard to believe it's "full" already.

Why link people to some other forum when you could have found the info yourself to post? And as you noticed, some people may or may not like the source you used.

[Kimble]

Not everyone bought all the add-ons?

So you think only people who have access to the test server should be allowed to know things from the test server?

[Alhanelem]

Not everyone bought all the add-ons?

So you think only people who have access to the test server should be allowed to know things from the test server?
No. but any of the vast majority of people who do have access to the test server could post their findings directly.

Who said that information couldn't be shared?

(it's worth noting that things like the quest requirements as well as anything and everything else ithat is new in the test server could change with or without notice- I find it particularly odd about the numbers of things needed in this quest- it might be to facilitate testing and not final)

[Kimble]

Maybe because they didn't find the info them self on the test server so instead of trying to take the credit, they linked it to the person who did find out the info so they can been given the proper credit for their work in finding it?

Some people actually like it when people give credit where its due and not try and pass it off as their own work.

You're right, it could be changed, doesnt mean that isnt what it is right now on the test server and COULD be the quest when it goes live.

[Runespider]

10 Merit points
1 Kindred Crest
1 Dhalmel Saliva * Bull Dhalmels in Bub P*

I don't know why they bother at all, totally stupid. Merits are nothing, crests are nothing and an item off a level 18ish mob? That's the best they can do, just have no level cap quest, that's insultingly pathetic.

They could still change this prior to update time I guess but it will probably still be more of the same nonense.

[Gokku]

Kimnle as much as the anti BG posters would love it to be , the treasure trove of good info there is very well needed and alot of the info that gets posted here is from bg like you said im just trying to give credit

@Alh
i dont own all addons and im not wasting 10 dollors for 4% pdt pants / test server access. that entire thread i linked to is for people to post info about the test server say what you will about the rest of BG but they are doing alot more then you are to help the community as a whole.

[Rearden]

I need more than 100 proof before I proof this proof.

I think it's sort of funny though.

"I don't trust BG, so I need more proof."

"Let me check otherwiki. Oh, here's some false information added to BG wiki that was ripped and added to otherwiki. I'll go with that fo'sha."

Even better:

"I posted in the wrong forum and didn't follow the rules and was made fun of, nothing at BG is accurate!"

[Runespider]

Do you have better sources than BG? I still don't believe that is the limit quest.

BG posters added more info about the game than any other source for FFXI, almost all the things you do ingame are probably thanks to people there.

If it's not good enough for you, maybe just wait for the update day and stay out of threads like this.

[Gokku]

ill make an ebay account and sell foil hats with "BG BELIEVER" in marker on it ill even sell it in different colors and on the back it can read "elitist are controlling your mind"

[MDenham]

As it stands it was posted on BG that the limit break quest is

10 Merit points
1 Kindred Crest
1 Dhalmel Saliva * Bull Dhalmels in Bub P*Stupid question: has a second person tried doing it yet to see if the last item varies?

[Runespider]

Stupid question: has a second person tried doing it yet to see if the last item varies?

You can't do it on the test server, they got that from dat mining.

[Aarahs]

If they have the Madoka Magika references in there, that's enough to make it win for me.

[Buffy]

And dhamel saliva could be a placeholder for the real item too.

[MDenham]

You can't do it on the test server, they got that from dat mining.You can, as long as you didn't decide to immediately bump your level to 95 with the GM moogle (doing so auto-flags that quest as completed, like someone said about three posts into this thread).

And .dat mining doesn't work to determine what items are needed for quests (unless the items are directly mentioned in the quest description). The .dats just mention "≺Possible Special Code: 01≻≺Possible Special Code: 01≻≺Possible Special Code: 01≻ ≺Possible Special Code: 01≻≺Possible Special Code: 05≻" in the text (rather, a sequence of non-text bytes, which POLUtils reads as things like that), which gets replaced by an item name that's provided by the server.

So: has anyone else decided to do 90->95 the hard way on the test server to see if it's, for example, any of the subjob quest items?

[Korpg]

As it stands it was posted on BG that the limit break quest is

10 Merit points
1 Kindred Crest
1 Dhalmel Saliva * Bull Dhalmels in Bub P*

followed by a mini game.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4774604&viewfull=1#post4774604

Sauce


http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4771610&viewfull=1#post4771610

doesnt get more "proof" then the direct log from the game.

How come both of these sources are completely different...from the same website no less.

The second one is actually more verifiable than the first because it actually has the quest log included into it.

It is amazing how much of sheep people are, even after this second thread was posted by the same person people are still believing the first one as gospel.

I'm going to wait until the update, thank you very much. You guys can keep guessing what the cap increase will entail and I'm sure that every one of you are going to be wrong also.

[Gokku]

@Korg
dude your level of tin foil hat is insane. BG could post 1+1 = 2 and you would cry its elitist propaganda and demand outside proof. but wait your on the test server why not do it yourself? that aside the same info is posted by 2 people in a thread at 2 different times. The first through dat mining could only determine that its 10 merits and 2 other items , then 2nd went and found out what those 2 items were its not rocket science, its even noted that this quest MAY CHANGE. i for one hope it does change this shit is piss all easy.

TLDR blind ignorance makes you look like a butt-hurt fool.

[erevan]

Unless all of a sudden the Dhalmel saliva drop rate went to some bizarre .01% drop.

[Alhanelem]

I highly question that 2 watchamacallits translates to a dhalmel saliva and a kindred crest. Now if someone who hasn't been on the test server yet could resist the urge to raise their jobs to 95 and do the quest, we could find out what they actually are.

[Runespider]

I highly question that 2 watchamacallits translates to a dhalmel saliva and a kindred crest. Now if someone who hasn't been on the test server yet could resist the urge to raise their jobs to 95 and do the quest, we could find out what they actually are.

For me I just wanted an idea of what kind of quest it would, same as the others.

The item doesn't really matter, if Square see people figure it out they will just change it. They like people scrambling over low level mobs.

[Korpg]

@Korg
dude your level of tin foil hat is insane. BG could post 1+1 = 2 and you would cry its elitist propaganda and demand outside proof. but wait your on the test server why not do it yourself? that aside the same info is posted by 2 people in a thread at 2 different times. The first through dat mining could only determine that its 10 merits and 2 other items , then 2nd went and found out what those 2 items were its not rocket science, its even noted that this quest MAY CHANGE. i for one hope it does change this shit is piss all easy.

According to the test server (disclaimer, since this is the test server and is subject to change, this may not be in the final product at all and can possibly be different)

The level 95 cap quest is:

Dormant Powers Dislodged

Client: Nomad Moogle

Summary: The nomad moogle has invited Atori-Tutori from the Tenshodo to conduct yet another physical enhancement project. Acquire two whatchamacallits and 10 merit points if you have the stomach to proceed.

Mind you, this is subject to change (as you have agreed to when a person has accepted when playing the test server, everything is subject to change in the update). This does not mean this is the level cap increase. Your second source is verifiable, which I have stated above but it doesn't mean that it will happen. It is lacking on the proof side that I requested. You have even admitted that this quest is subject to change, go figure.

You are still believing in the saliva part? Keep speculating.

And my bias with BG is with the moderation side of things, not the informative side, although idiots like you tend to post useless information and everyone jumps on it because your source is from BG. I have not made a theory about the website (on the first page, you would see that my post on the bottom of the page states semi-informative, not OMG BG SUCKS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL ELITIST A-HATS which you have implied that I have said). You need to actually read and not copy/paste info and claim it as gospel.


TLDR blind ignorance makes you look like a butt-hurt fool.

That actually applies to you a whole lot more than it does to me. You were the one who posted the incorrect information, not me. All I asked was verifiable proof, nothing more. Learn to read.

[MarkovChain]

Kimnle as much as the anti BG posters would love it to be , the treasure trove of good info there is very well needed and alot of the info that gets posted here is from bg like you said im just trying to give credit .
Because JP don't exist and don't play the test server. Also this quest does not make sense It's much less requrement than the previous ones. This means that's not what we will get, and SE played with the dat miners (none of them come from BG, as anyone can check with each VU, since everything is "reposted" on BG from somewhere else). I put money on the same merits # but much more HKC.

[Aver]

Frickin LOL @ the idiots who got banned from BG for being idiots posting anti-BG commentary.

That being said, stuff could still change, but as it stands, hurray for insta-uncap come the update.

[Gokku]

A. anything on the test sever is subject to change. hence why i said"As it Stands"
B. what testing / info have you posted and or done?
C. your really going to say the quest might not be the level cap? is that npc used for anything else? does the chat log from BG not show the quest in your log is directly related to what you just posted?
D. how is this info useless , whats the worse that happens someone spends 5 mins of there day killing level 18 mobs for a single item then tossing it on the day of the update OH NO! or you mean the fact that it could save a few hundred people a little bit of running around?

[Korpg]

Frickin LOL @ the idiots who got banned from BG for being idiots posting anti-BG commentary.

I have nothing against the information posted BG, as it is subject to speculation. My main concern is the moderation on that website, which is worse than FFXIAH.com in dealing with problem posters (BG actually encourages idiots there and bans people for having a different viewpoint than them).


That being said, stuff could still change, but as it stands, hurray for insta-uncap come the update.

If you are believing in that tripe about 1 KC and Saliva. I guarantee you that you will be very disappointed at the update.

[Alhanelem]

Elitists make mistakes too. Additionally just because someone put some information somewhere else, doesn't mean it was ripped from BG (Doesn't mean that it doesn't ever happen, just that BG elitists aren't the only ones trying stuff out and finding information)

Hoaxes and photoshops and mistaken information and stuff are all over the place, and BG is no exception, nor is any other information source. You can't automatically treat something as gospel truth just because someone who can post on BG without getting flamed to hell said so.

[Korpg]

A. anything on the test sever is subject to change. hence why i said"As it Stands"

Which I pointed out. But you are still allowing that tripe on your first post on this thread to stand as it is. You posted misinformation and still allow it to be considered as gospel.


B. what testing / info have you posted and or done?

For BG? Absolutely nothing, and proud of it. Most of my testing was done for self-improvement and verifying what is common knowledge. But there are more things on BG that are completely wrong than there are that are correct and verifiable. Which is why I say that the information on BG is limited, and needs to be reproduced personally to find out if the findings are, essentially, correct.


C. your really going to say the quest might not be the level cap? is that npc used for anything else? does the chat log from BG not show the quest in your log is directly related to what you just posted?

You even stated in (A) that the quest is subject to change. You are contradicting yourself.


D. how is this info useless , whats the worse that happens someone spends 5 mins of there day killing level 18 mobs for a single item then tossing it on the day of the update OH NO! or you mean the fact that it could save a few hundred people a little bit of running around?

Because you are spreading information that has not been verified nor tested as absolute truth. You sir, are a sheep, believing in anything that exists in front of you without questioning about the reasons behind it. You think that fence in front of you is the end of the world and that there is nothing on the other side to look at. Think man! Think for yourself instead of letting others do it for you!

[Gokku]

If you are believing in that tripe about 1 KC and Saliva. I guarantee you that you will be very disappointed at the update.

im gonna need some not official forum proof on this please.

[Korpg]

im gonna need some not official forum proof on this please.

Prove me wrong then. Where is your proof that your original post in this thread is correct and will happen? By then you will have proven me wrong. Otherwise my point still stands.

[Gokku]

Prove me wrong then. Where is your proof that your original post in this thread is correct and will happen? By then you will have proven me wrong. Otherwise my point still stands.

gift me the game on steam ill sign up for the test server then~

[Gokku]

OP updated with new info

[TybudX]

But there are more things on BG that are completely wrong than there are that are correct and verifiable. Which is why I say that the information on BG is limited, and needs to be reproduced personally to find out if the findings are, essentially, correct.

Uh... like what? Find, I don't know, maybe five examples? And show us another site that is anywhere close to being as comprehensive as BG is. Please. Take your time.

[Gokulo]

OP updated with new info

I can confirm Quadav Backscale as an requirement too.

[Gokku]

kk ill make the change in a bit

[Easykiller]

Was looking at the threads and seeing people demanding proof...

I flagged teh quest day 1 when it was still in japanese so I can't get the chat log now, but I went back to the moogle and verified what items I needed (and the quest is flagged in my quest list)

So here is proof (http://140.99.58.84/proof.jpg)

[MDenham]

Okay, looks like it's one Kindred Crest, plus an arbitrary Ex item, so far.

EDIT: People who have auto-bumped themselves to 95 can look back at the cutscene with the NPC in Ru'Lude Gardens. Add to the list of second items a Dangruf Stone.

[scaevola]

Dear SE,

If you'd made it a Ghoul Skull instead of Dhalmel Saliva I think people would have had an easier time getting the joke.

<3,
Scaevola

[Aldersyde]

Uh... like what? Find, I don't know, maybe five examples? And show us another site that is anywhere close to being as comprehensive as BG is. Please. Take your time.

When I want to kill some time and have a laugh, I'll browse this site, alla, and the media thread on BG.

When I want information on new things introduced to the game and how to play, I'll go to the Standard Section in BG.

[Gokku]

updated OP again

[Babygyrl]

UGh another mini game!? i hate mini games i suck so hard at them.. it took me like 45 mins to beat the stupid fighting one from the last update!!! please no mini games :(

[Gokku]

UGh another mini game!? i hate mini games i suck so hard at them.. it took me like 45 mins to beat the stupid fighting one from the last update!!! please no mini games :(

it took you 45mins to beat rock paper scissors ? what were you playing with raptor jesus or something?

[Psxpert2011]

Oh my gawd what a loool thread... I can't believe how many babies are here fighting over "something that's subject to change". Well, that matter which was info from those who actually played on the server probably just wanted to show off.

The Moogle could've requested x2 copper ores and the world would be going nuts. ROFL!

My lord, treat the forum like it's for SE, we're not in BG or anywhere else.

[MarkovChain]

Uh... like what? Find, I don't know, maybe five examples? And show us another site that is anywhere close to being as comprehensive as BG is. Please. Take your time.

1)BG comprehensible ? funny. The little amount info that you can find there is digged into hundreds pages long threads.
2) If I want info on monk, I go to the alla forum then to the official forums.
3) If I want dat mining info on the day of the VU I poke the alla bookmarks from my favorite webbrowser.
4) If I want specific information on the game ... wiki obviously.

[Gokku]

1)BG comprehensible ? funny. The little amount info that you can find there is digged into hundreds pages long threads.
2) If I want info on monk, I go to the alla forum then to the official forums.
3) If I want dat mining info on the day of the VU I poke the alla bookmarks from my favorite webbrowser.
4) If I want specific information on the game ... wiki obviously.

thats cuz your banned till 2012.. try harder pchan and alla for monk has been horrid for years id go back to killingifrit long before id ever ask alla.

[Seiowan]

Thanks for the information on the future limit break. Yes, yes, I get that it's subject to change and all that (as is everything on Undine) but it's nice to have a rough idea of what to expect when it goes live.

On a side note... WOW.. so many drama queens! I can't even count the number of posts in this thread belittling Bluegartyr for one reason or another or desperately trying to discredit the limit break, despite countless players on Undine reporting the same thing. Lighten up guys, its only a game!

Not sure what Bluegartyr did to get such a response out of people, but I've always found the majority of their information to be reliable. Sit back, take your vitamins and try to see this for what it is. A player communicating their information to the masses.

[SilverObi]

After looking at the quest CS itself on the test server, the text and requirements are correct. Just skimmed through the pages so don't know if it's been put up but Orcish Axe is one of the possible needed items.

And huge props to the cutscenes being an homage to Puella Magi Madoka Magica! Made me laugh so hard when I realized it.

[MarkovChain]

thats cuz your banned till 2012.. try harder pchan and alla for monk has been horrid for years id go back to killingifrit long before id ever ask alla.

I think it's funny when the only tool that BG uses nowadays for calculting DPS is a spreadsheet made by kinematics originally on the Alla MNK forums, then it extended to several melee jobs, when the monk forum gets threads explaining which weapon is better and how much with each level cap. You never see such deep math on BG, sorry. I wonder if any of them is able to compute an exact WS damage or an exact #rounds per WS. I think we've seen too many hilarous posts of BGer coming here explaining us how relics can be better than empy for instance, some of them admitting they don't own an empy.

[noodles355]

I'm loving the tags this thread has been given.

Also pchan never learnt how to use the search function, and he got banned for being pchan, so naturally he's going to be butthurt and bias against BG.

[TybudX]

1)BG comprehensible ? funny. The little amount info that you can find there is digged into hundreds pages long threads.
2) If I want info on monk, I go to the alla forum then to the official forums.
3) If I want dat mining info on the day of the VU I poke the alla bookmarks from my favorite webbrowser.
4) If I want specific information on the game ... wiki obviously.

1. Info is still there, how it's formatted is irrelevant.
2. Got me there.
3. DAT mingin info gets posted everywhere the day of VU. You only go to Alla because you are baaaaaaned from BG.
4. Really? Have they solved that whole weakness targeting thing yet? I've been waiting on the edge of my seat for that info.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

UGHHHHHHHH!!!! Another 10 merits.

Building upto the 20 at 95-99

[Aver]

1. Info is still there, how it's formatted is irrelevant.
2. Got me there.
3. DAT mingin info gets posted everywhere the day of VU. You only go to Alla because you are baaaaaaned from BG.
4. Really? Have they solved that whole weakness targeting thing yet? I've been waiting on the edge of my seat for that info.

It's just a temp bant, he'll be back soon enough to get himself banteded again... In 2012!

[Rearden]

I think it's funny when the only tool that BG uses nowadays for calculting DPS is a spreadsheet made by kinematics originally on the Alla MNK forums, then it extended to several melee jobs, when the monk forum gets threads explaining which weapon is better and how much with each level cap. You never see such deep math on BG, sorry. I wonder if any of them is able to compute an exact WS damage or an exact #rounds per WS. I think we've seen too many hilarous posts of BGer coming here explaining us how relics can be better than empy for instance, some of them admitting they don't own an empy.

Except those spreadsheet are often, often, often wrong and misleading. They are useful as a quick look at a piece and what it might add over another...but I don't know anyone who uses those as gospel, as often enough any math done usually finds an error in what those spreadsheets provide.

[cidbahamut]

UGHHHHHHHH!!!! Another 10 merits.

Building upto the 20 at 95-99

Do you somehow not have capped merits by now? I don't understand your anguish.

[Korpg]

As I have stated in other threads, I always admit when I'm wrong.

Well, here it is, I'm wrong.

It is possible that the OP is right, although still subject to change, and it is possible, however unlikely, that the player will need to get a Dhalmal Saliva to break cap.

I'm not wrong when I state that BG is semi-informative, because an informative website wouldn't have all of that idiotic dribble that BG has. The ratio of informative to non-informative dribble that website has is about (estimation) 1:500 posts. You can not say with a straight face that BG is informative at all.

I don't even trust BG wiki because most of that website was a complete copy of Gamer Escape and the original wiki. The only thing that people have added were the mathy parts of minor issues. I trust GE more than I trust BG for current and accurate information.

Also, mods really should start banning people for inappropriate use of the tags, like they said in the ToS that they would.

[xbobx]

FYI, all those items are the same items used for the job emote quests. Some are a pain in the butt, picture 50 people trying to farm 15 mobs for Eastern paper which has a 5% drop rate.

Why doesn't SE ever learn from their mistakes? So prepare for competition, luckily I picked up 9 of the items last night just incase, not going to get pissed off trying to claim a yagado like it was a 24 hour pop hnm.

[MDenham]

FYI, all those items are the same items used for the job emote quests.Not all of them are; some of them are for the Moogle addon's first quest, the Dangruf stone is used for one Bastok quest and (for some people) unlocking BLU...

It really does look like it's "one random Ex item" for that, and you're probably going to get stuck with something really obscure that you don't have.

[xbobx]

Maybe they will smarten up and just make it merits and the crests, what is their issue and need to make people run all over the place for some random item just to create a time sink.

I would be fine just get rid of the limit quest, you log on, you can go higher, there really is no need to keep doing these quests. It made some sense in the past, it was part of the learning process of your job, moving you around the area, etc from 50-75, i just don't see the point now unless it is just to waste your time.

[Rearden]

lol@BG Wiki being a copy of anything

[Korpg]

lol@BG Wiki being a copy of anything

Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that BG is the first source for everything in this game?

[Aver]

As I have stated in other threads, I always admit when I'm wrong.

Well, here it is, I'm wrong.

It is possible that the OP is right, although still subject to change, and it is possible, however unlikely, that the player will need to get a Dhalmal Saliva to break cap.

I'm not wrong when I state that BG is semi-informative, because an informative website wouldn't have all of that idiotic dribble that BG has. The ratio of informative to non-informative dribble that website has is about (estimation) 1:500 posts. You can not say with a straight face that BG is informative at all.

I don't even trust BG wiki because most of that website was a complete copy of Gamer Escape and the original wiki. The only thing that people have added were the mathy parts of minor issues. I trust GE more than I trust BG for current and accurate information.

Also, mods really should start banning people for inappropriate use of the tags, like they said in the ToS that they would.

Nevermind that BG-wiki preceeded GE.

[Yugl]

Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that BG is the first source for everything in this game?

Most stuff, yes. You may not know this, but Wiki has found writers plagiarizing off BG-Wiki/BG threads and only recently has it come to their attention. If you want to start making an argument for originality, start looking at the sources for topics and you'll find the most moderate-late-recent (Not early before BG became a general forum) information and see who provided the information. Chances are that it is someone from BG who posted it in a thread or it appeared in a BG thread first without citation. Not to mention BG-Wiki a better track record for citing information. Some information was derived from Alla by people who frequent both sites, so those pieces of information are washes in general, but favor BG over GE in originality.

[Byrth]

Honestly, work picked up and I haven't looked for plagiarism in months. It looks like it's going to shake down like this:
BGwiki - Information on new stuff, mathy things, etc. Added benefit of having a fairly spartan layout and no ads.
Wikia - Will have the bulk of the user-submitted comments, things like BCNM testimonies or where to go for Magian trials.
GE - I'm not sure. At the moment it's almost exclusively information ripped from wikia or bgwiki, with the same number of ads and goofy layout as wikia. The only advantage it has over wikia is active moderation, so the only reason for people to use this is if the trolling on ffxiclopedia gets so bad that it becomes unusable.

I'd like to dream people may someday edit BGwiki the way they edit wikia, but fact of the matter is that Wikia is what the majority of FFXI users know and use, and BGwiki has spare exposure by comparison. It's not really the 1000+ edit members that bgwiki lacks as much as the 10 edit members.

Still, it's fun for me to go through and rework things like job abilities (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Job_Abilities), job traits (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Job_Traits), and game mechanics (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Game_Mechanics)to see what we know and what we don't. I'm having fun when I have time to invest in it, so I'm more than happy to keep updating bgwiki. Be forewarned, some of it (like the latter half of the trait alphabet) is still a work in progress. The test server is a *very* fun tool for stuff like this though.

[Gokku]

op is updated with orcish axe. ill update links to all the items when im fully awake.

@lol pchan

and omg you guys and the tags.

[Aliekber]

The word you're looking for is "drivel", not "dribble", Korpg. And BG tends to be reliable on this sort of thing.

[MarkovChain]

@lol pchan

You didn't like how mathed (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13670-MNK-WAR-tank-I-m-confused-Please-Assist?p=183366&viewfull=1#post183366) your WS gear to be bad ?

[Korpg]

Nevermind that BG-wiki preceeded GE.

I know that, but Wiki preceded BG wiki. And is more used also.

Like I said, the majority of the information came from wiki, and the newer content can be found on both GE and BG. I use GE mostly because it has most of the information from wiki, and some of the useful stuff from BG (a combination of both, instead of having to check 2 different websites for different information). But GE is also self-correcting, so it would be more accurate than the limited viewpoints of BG.


Most stuff, yes. You may not know this, but Wiki has found writers plagiarizing off BG-Wiki/BG threads and only recently has it come to their attention. If you want to start making an argument for originality, start looking at the sources for topics and you'll find the most moderate-late-recent (Not early before BG became a general forum) information and see who provided the information. Chances are that it is someone from BG who posted it in a thread or it appeared in a BG thread first without citation. Not to mention BG-Wiki a better track record for citing information. Some information was derived from Alla by people who frequent both sites, so those pieces of information are washes in general, but favor BG over GE in originality.

What is wiki anyway, besides a compilation of sources of information into one simple to use website. Are you going to start accusing all wikis of "stealing" information then? Wikis are great places to start looking for information and can expand on that information based on sources (FFXI wiki doesn't really need sources since most of the information there can be verified on the game, not from other sources of information (forums), you can do the missions and battlefields from the information on the wiki instead of having to look at pointless jabber (BG, KI, FFXIAH) for pages on end to get the little jewel of information those websites offer on occasion).

It is funny to claim knowledge on a game. There is no real plagiarism because all aspects of your knowledge is based on a recreation activity and not on actual important information you would need to make real decisions of your life. But keep fighting for the right to say that you came up with that aspect of how to swing an axe on an online game.

[Gokku]

You didn't like how mathed (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13670-MNK-WAR-tank-I-m-confused-Please-Assist?p=183366&viewfull=1#post183366) your WS gear to be bad ?

byakko : ( (1+0.03*2+(1-0.03)*0.21)*2.25+(1+0.03*2+(1-0.03)*0.21)+3)*(76+11+0.85*0.6*140)*( 0.31*2.3*1.14 +0.79*1.3)=2071

usukane :
( (1+0.03*2+(1-0.03)*0.21)*2.25+(1+0.03*2+(1-0.03)*0.21)+3)*(76+11+0.85*0.6*145)*( 0.30*2.3*1.10 +0.80*1.3)*1.03=2119

thats 2071 vs 2119 your talking 48 difference pchan 48... thats less then 1% dps difference

also I HAVE USU LEGS your retarded if your going to attack someones gear make sure they dont have the resources to change there gear instantly to the better set. let alone try and act high and mighty of a less then 1% difference.


critical : 10% base on Victory smite, 10% from ddex, merits, before leg.
ive already dis proven that to be incorrect with a quick abyssea test VS's natural crit rate is at least double what they tested closing the gap on the legs further.

troll harder

P.S. anyone else see the hypocrisy in pchan trying to be an elitist and call someone out on a 1% gear change XD

[MarkovChain]

Just for your information, VS getting 20% base crit (not proven by you) makes your gear even more mediocre. I see I tought you something, it's called math. I only called you on the gear you wanted to show in that thread, acting like it's allmighty when it's actually below average, and pretty dumb seeing how you spammed tier III synergy for inferior gear. I also see that you posted in the augment thread on BG you wonderful pair of byakko maybe hping that someone wouls confort you in your bad gear choices. It means you don't know how to gear your monk, and are mad when called on it.

[Byrth]

Well, two things I guess:
1) People aren't reading these values out of the game and posting them. They're doing testing and writing up/publishing their findings, which may or may not be correct. As such, taking the information they have written and re-/mis-representing it without a citation or permission is plagiarism.
2) They also just copypasta things I've literally written, drops I've made up, etc. The last time I looked for this it took me about 5 minutes to find it and Al fixed it within the week. I haven't bothered looking again since then really, because work has picked up.

It's not like information just appears out of nowhere. Once in a long time SE will throw us a bone and just tell us how things works, or publish some strategy guide in JP that lists trait tiers for obscure stuff like Resist Bind, but most of the time it's people taking hours out of their playtime to test things. Of everything on Wikia, the only thing I can think of that is actually de novo wikia-based research is the Drain Samba (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Drain_Samba)testing, which I've personally verified to be pretty accurate (I think it's actually N/256, but other than that he's pretty right). Most of the information there comes to you uncited by people who didn't do the testing and without the permission of the tester, or is cross- or first- posted on BG/elsewhere.

[Babekeke]

This is strange, I could have sworn that this thread was about the level 95 limit break quest, not the validity of information found on wiki/bg etc.

Please take this to a new thread designated to your validity theories, and let the moderators delete the last ~3 pages of posts that are completely irrelevant to the OP. But tbh once a mod gets hold of this thread they'll likely heave a big sigh and just lock it rather than edit all of the posts de-railing it.

[Byrth]

GE Dynamis San d'Oria Map (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/File:New_dynamis_San_d%27Oria.gif)
BG Dynamis San d'Oria Map (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/File:Dynamis-Sandoria-NMs.gif)

We're such naughty plagiarizers? Oh wait, we uploaded it first, cited the source, and I personally got permission from him via a PM on BG. The GE uploader misspells "spawns" and doesn't cite anyone. Par for the course.

I didn't even have to go looking for that. I saw it when I was reading this (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=19&mid=1315462609269206611).

[Easykiller]

Wow... totally off-topic on the thread.

Take the pissing contest someplace else please. 99.9% of players don't care if information originated from BG or not, all they care about is when they go look something up they can find the information, whether it the first wiki it was posted on was BG wiki, GE wiki or wikia.

If you care so much about keeping information from being stolen off BG Wiki then add a paywall. That's helped many many newspapers who've tried it block people from "stealing" their content for blogs and such as well. And since BG Wiki has such a tiny percentage of the player base using it, they probably won't see any impact.

Now can we keep this thread on topic?

[Gokku]

Just for your information, VS getting 20% base crit (not proven by you) makes your gear even more mediocre. I see I tought you something, it's called math. I only called you on the gear you wanted to show in that thread, acting like it's allmighty when it's actually below average, and pretty dumb seeing how you spammed tier III synergy for inferior gear. I also see that you posted in the augment thread on BG you wonderful pair of byakko maybe hping that someone wouls confort you in your bad gear choices. It means you don't know how to gear your monk, and are mad when called on it.
lets break it down . Below avg gear out of all the gear sets i posted they found 1 arguably 3 diffrent choces < Heafoc / Beir+1 and Byakkos as disputable slots. all listed possible changes to those gear sets are items i have.

Spammed synergy 1/10 is spam? and i my post i noted that they wernt as good for monk as i had hope'd its not like im gonna cry a river because usu legs are still great for ws *ive had them long before abyssea was out*.

"I only called you on the gear you wanted to show in that thread, acting like it's allmighty when it's actually below average"
ive yet to see you post your wondrous gear sets pchan. you can claim all you like that my chakra set that has ever single piece of HQ vit+ in the game is below avg , or my eva set or damn near max PDT or capped MDT sets are below avg all day long , did i ever say my sets were perfect? nope but is a hellva lot better then 90% of what most bandwagon monks are working with.

all of this is completely off topic as you only posted because you were but hurt about other people making fun of your anti bg bawling

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14073-Monk-Kick-Attack-Rate-and-Random-other-Facts-and-Formulas?p=186433&viewfull=1#post186433

cuz you know Rancor collar and i totally didnt do this test.

[Leonlionheart]

As I have stated in other threads, I always admit when I'm wrong.

Well, here it is, I'm wrong.

It is possible that the OP is right, although still subject to change, and it is possible, however unlikely, that the player will need to get a Dhalmal Saliva to break cap.

I'm not wrong when I state that BG is semi-informative, because an informative website wouldn't have all of that idiotic dribble that BG has. The ratio of informative to non-informative dribble that website has is about (estimation) 1:500 posts. You can not say with a straight face that BG is informative at all.

I don't even trust BG wiki because most of that website was a complete copy of Gamer Escape and the original wiki. The only thing that people have added were the mathy parts of minor issues. I trust GE more than I trust BG for current and accurate information.

Also, mods really should start banning people for inappropriate use of the tags, like they said in the ToS that they would.

Probably been said, but even if most of it is dribble, it's the only real place to get solid math information and is almost always reliable for .dat mines.

There's something to be said about a place where "elitists" gather, and it's probably that it's the place where you go to find out how to be "elite." Meaning it has the best top of the line information. Maybe not for the casuals, but I wouldn't suggest anywhere else for the hardcore players.

[Korpg]

Probably been said, but even if most of it is dribble, it's the only real place to get solid math information and is almost always reliable for .dat mines.

There's something to be said about a place where "elitists" gather, and it's probably that it's the place where you go to find out how to be "elite." Meaning it has the best top of the line information. Maybe not for the casuals, but I wouldn't suggest anywhere else for the hardcore players.

Like I previously stated. BG and to the extent BG wiki is a great place to verify some mathematical aspects of this game (fSTR and dDIF and the such) but it is a copy of wiki as a whole when it comes to missions, quests, battlefields, and content. In other words, 90% of the game as a whole, BG and wiki doesn't differ. Although, you do get some useless information (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Damage_Over_Time) compared to others (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Damage_Over_Time) and historical sources (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Damage_Over_Time). Strange that people are still back BG when most of BG's threads consist of utter garbage (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106745-The-Official-Forums-III-Nuked/page8) as creditable sources.

BG is good for one thing, and anything after that, it is completely worthless.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, elitists should stay in there, by all means. It is when they come to other forums to start spouting that they are greater than anything and, in essence, become the next Dallas, while people are backing them up because they can't think for themselves and let the so-called elitists from BG think for them, that is when problems occur.

[Byrth]

Sorry Korpg, I've been updating pages in the order that I think is useful for the people that I perceive visit BGwiki. If you want to start using it and really want to know what DOT means, PM me and I'll write the page for you.

Instead I've been doing things like this (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Dead_Aim)or that (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/True_Shot). The test server is great.

[cidbahamut]

Really? You're gonna point to threads in Media as your evidence that BG isn't informative? Conveniently ignoring all of Advanced. Real classy.

[Korpg]

GE Dynamis San d'Oria Map (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/File:New_dynamis_San_d%27Oria.gif)
BG Dynamis San d'Oria Map (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/File:Dynamis-Sandoria-NMs.gif)

We're such naughty plagiarizers? Oh wait, we uploaded it first, cited the source, and I personally got permission from him via a PM on BG. The GE uploader misspells "spawns" and doesn't cite anyone. Par for the course.

I didn't even have to go looking for that. I saw it when I was reading this (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=19&mid=1315462609269206611).

Who is getting hurt from this? Who is profiting from either source of information? Are you going to write a term paper over this and are hoping you don't get into trouble because the source you used this information from could be from a different source?

Besides, I don't see anyone claiming on GE's website as their own. You have to understand the whole definition of plagiarism before you accuse anyone of doing so.

But thanks for implying that I accused you of plagiarism though, even on that other website that you love to reference without actually looking.

[Korpg]

Really? You're gonna point to threads in Media as your evidence that BG isn't informative? Conveniently ignoring all of Advanced. Real classy.

Advanced subsection of the forum is mainly an advertisement for 3rd party software and personal achievements, not really much in the informational side of life, while media is complete drama. While there are some gems of knowledge in the advanced side, they are few and far between to be considered an informative subsection of the forum, and is swallowed up by self-gloating and ramblings of children.

So yeah, I stand behind my words in this case.

[wish12oz]

My favorite thing about BG, is watching all the haters and noobs rage about it. (But that's only because the big kills list got taken away =| if big kills was still there that would be my favorite thing)

[Gokku]

DOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04
MORE DOTS MORE DOTS

[cidbahamut]

Advanced subsection of the forum is mainly an advertisement for 3rd party software and personal achievements, not really much in the informational side of life, while media is complete drama. While there are some gems of knowledge in the advanced side, they are few and far between to be considered an informative subsection of the forum, and is swallowed up by self-gloating and ramblings of children.

So yeah, I stand behind my words in this case.

Oh, ok then Starcade.

[Korpg]

Sorry Korpg, I've been updating pages in the order that I think is useful for the people that I perceive visit BGwiki. If you want to start using it and really want to know what DOT means, PM me and I'll write the page for you.

Instead I've been doing things like this (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Dead_Aim)or that (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/True_Shot). The test server is great.

Bolded section: That means that to the general public, your website is useless. How can you consider yourself a public wiki instead of what it really is, a private wiki. Don't bother with the word "plagiarism" when the whole idea of your little website is for personal purposes only. You are not hurt from sharing of information, and in most cases, you have taken information from other sources without properly sourcing them. But neither you stand a gain from the information you taken nor is the source stands to lose anything, since the information has become public knowledge, so it is not plagiarism. Or are you going to accuse me of plagiarism if I state "The Earth is round."

[Korpg]

Oh, ok then Starcade.

No, I'm not like Starcade, I don't wish to have BG erased for advertisement on 3rd party software, or erased period. Are you really that obtuse, or is that a natural talent of yours?

[cidbahamut]

Hyperbole! How does it work?

[MarkovChain]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14073-Monk-Kick-Attack-Rate-and-Random-other-Facts-and-Formulas?p=186433&viewfull=1#post186433

cuz you know Rancor collar and i totally didnt do this test.

I sure hope you don't consider this a test. The result is that VS crit is anywhere between 0% and 24% with high likelyhood of it being between 10 and 20. Man, give us a break with your 16 weapon skills, you've got to try other crit% maybe before claiming some imaginary numbers ? You know, tetsing is not something you do when you're are bored and have one hour to burn. Diasetsu did maybe 40k rounds of H2H to accurately determine with 0% error Kick rate and Full set bonus, I personnally did maybe 40k for magic accuracy and evasion tests, several hundreds for accuractely determining aquaveil and spell interruption cap, several thousands of rounds to determine which precede TA or DA, several thousands of rounds for the ddex-crit function. Give us a break with your 16 weapon skills.

[Babekeke]

Still completely off topic. Worst thing about it is that there's actually some info that you're all sprouting, that other people might want to refer back to at a later date, but they'll never find it hiddin in this thread about a level cap quest.
Seriously, one of you grab your balls in hand and create a new thread to argue in, and then come back here and link to it and carry on your agrument in there.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

ill make an ebay account and sell foil hats with "BG BELIEVER" in marker on it ill even sell it in different colors and on the back it can read "elitist are controlling your mind"Can I order a dozen "Disbeliever" to sell in my ebay store to the opposition? Keep the "mind control" part though, you can hide it under a fold so when they find it they'll freak out.

[Byrth]

the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work, as by not crediting the author

k? Anyone who posts shit that isn't theirs, be it an idea or the literal work of another person, has plagiarized. Taking that map, for example, is plagiarism. Reposting it without permission is potentially copyright infringement.

If you read GE's license, you can only submit things that are either in the "Public Domain (http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/10-misconceptions-about-the-public-domain.html)" or your own work. Even if you're submitting something that is in the public domain you are encouraged to cite your source, either in the edit history or on the page. It's not in the culture of FFXI wiki editors though, basically because the staff has made little to no effort to enforce this policy on their website. They defer the responsibilities of moderation to the original owners of the content, similar to YouTube. A quick look at basically any of their pages will show how true this is.

Also, being realistic about the users of BGwiki doesn't mean I'm privatizing the website. It would be pretty dumb of me to cater to beginners in a game that's rapidly approaching a decade old. It also doesn't somehow excuse the other wikis from obeying their own licenses.

[Babekeke]

I sure hope you don't consider this a test. The result is that VS crit is anywhere between 0% and 24% with high likelyhood of it beeing between 10 and 20. Man, give us a break with your 16 weapon skills, you've got to try other crit% maybe before claiming some imaginary numbers ? You know, tetsing is not something you do when you're are bored and have one hour to burn. Diasetsu did maybe 20k rounds of H2H to accurately determine with 0% error Kick rate and Full set bonus, I personnally did maybe 40k for magic accuracy and evasion tests, several hunderds for accuractely determining aquaveil and spell interruption cap, several tousands of round to determine which precede TA or DA, several thousands of rounds for the ddex-crit function. Give us a break with your 16 weapon skills.

I hope you put more effort into your testing than you do into your spell-checking >.>

[Byrth]

He's French, and there's no doubt that pchan has contributed greatly to our understanding of FFXI mechanics. I can think of more than a few tests that he did that were very well designed and informative.

That said, there's no need to marginalize the contributions of others. It would be nicer for the FFXI community if he would encourage testing, give ideas, etc. instead of doing a hulk smash on anyone who doesn't put forth a totally definitive answer on their first attempt.

[Gokku]

the test was never ment to be this massive test i said it would be quick took me almost an hour to get all 20 kill in without having more then 110% tp or getting bored.

read the qouted post, within the small test youll see its just quick and dirty if i had 100's or VS skingle kill rounds saved up id have posted the whole parse as it stands i just used it to make sure the assumed 75% crit rate * i had 77% so within error* was correct on my TP gear * same gear i was WSing in*

[Korpg]

k? Anyone who posts shit that isn't theirs, be it an idea or the literal work of another person, has plagiarized. Taking that map, for example, is plagiarism. Reposting it without permission is potentially copyright infringement.

You are right! Square Enix has the right to sue BG wiki for copyright infringement because they posted an altered map and have somebody claim it as their own, even though everything that is in FFXI is the sole property of SE. That is the legal definition of what you are referring to, but you placed it in the wrong context!

Seriously. You are trying to sue a robber for stealing the goods you just stole. You think that anyone is going to take your side?

[Byrth]

I guess I wasn't aware there were Dynamis - San d'Oria maps in the game at the moment. My bad.

[Korpg]

I guess I wasn't aware there were Dynamis - San d'Oria maps in the game at the moment. My bad.

I guess you don't know about South San d'Oria maps either.

[Greatguardian]

GE and Wiki generate ad revenue.
More Information = More Clicks
More Clicks = More Ad Revenue
More Ad Revenue = More Profits
Stealing Information from BG = More Information
More Information = More Profits
QED: Stealing Information from BG = More Profits

Is that really so hard to understand?

Herp Derp plagiarism doesn't hurt anyone. BGWiki operates under a nonprofit license (or it did? Has this changed?). GE and Wikia do not. Stealing from a nonprofit and profiting off the information is a crime. That has never, ever been disputed by the administration of GE or Wikia. They just don't give a damn about actively enforcing it, and shift the opus for enforcement onto the submitters (which we all know is bullshit).

Do Youtube and Megavideo illegally host copyrighted movies and tv shows? Duh. Do they care? Nah. Does that make it legal? No. It's still a crime, and it still hurts people. Stealing from "big, bad corporations" may be okay with some people, but since when is it okay to steal from a non-profit? Do people walk up to mall santas, punch them in the balls, and steal their toys for tots too?

[Easykiller]

k? Anyone who posts shit that isn't theirs, be it an idea or the literal work of another person, has plagiarized. Taking that map, for example, is plagiarism. Reposting it without permission is potentially copyright infringement.



Actually, that's not copyright infringement at all since BG doesn't have a copyright on the MAP, if anything SE has a copyright to the map because all content related to FFXI is copyright (including maps of zones) to SE, so BG posting it in the first place was copyright infringement to start. Just because SE doesn't chose to be a dick about people screencapping maps from in game and displaying them on the website doesn't mean that the person who decided to mark up said map has the right to do so.

[Easykiller]

Stealing from a nonprofit and profiting off the information is a crime.

Actually, if the information that's being "stolen" isn't trademarked, copyrighted or otherwise registered, then copying it verbatim is not at all a crime. Especially when its the company's users that do the posting and not the company or its employees. It may be an asshole thing to do without proper references and if your teacher catches you doing it you may get an F on your paper. But its not illegal at all.

Wikia is a non-profit organization as well, just because they make revenue does not mean they make a profit. You don't have to have a loss every quarter to be considered a non-profit organization, you just have to not make a profit. And just because its a business that uses ad revenue to support its servers and pay its staff doesn't change the fact that even if their users upload copyrighted or stolen material to the site, they are protected by law from it.

Now, please take this to another topic.

[Korpg]

GE and Wiki generate ad revenue.
More Information = More Clicks
More Clicks = More Ad Revenue
More Ad Revenue = More Profits
Stealing Information from BG = More Information
More Information = More Profits
QED: Stealing Information from BG = More Profits

When GE takes the mathy parts of BG and claims it as their own, then yes, you would have a case. Otherwise, you are trying to claim public knowledge as your own, so you can use that against somebody else. Want to claim air as your own too?


Is that really so hard to understand?

You obviously don't understand I'm guessing.


Herp Derp plagiarism doesn't hurt anyone. BGWiki operates under a nonprofit license (or it did? Has this changed?). GE and Wikia do not. Stealing from a nonprofit and profiting off the information is a crime. That has never, ever been disputed by the administration of GE or Wikia. They just don't give a damn about actively enforcing it, and shift the opus for enforcement onto the submitters (which we all know is bullshit).

Then sue them. Sue them for the information they allegedly stole from you.....oh wait, if that information is yours, then SE can sue you for stealing their copy protected products. You have as much claim to the information posted on wiki and GE as they do. SE is the only one who has the actual rights to the information that is presented to those websites, and I'm sure that they (wiki and GE) has rights to produce a product under a licence for that information.

[Greatguardian]

Which is why I never said GE was the one committing the crime.

Wikia and GE also operate under licenses which explicitly prohibit this sort of thing. Not only is it plagiarism, but it also violates the terms of their license. It is the responsibility of Wikia/GE to ban users that violate this license. They choose to be lax on enforcement, and it's a total dick thing to do, but yes they can't really be held accountable for it.

I'm not saying that anyone needs to prosecute GE/Wikia, but to say that their users aren't blatantly stealing information from other sources is being willfully ignorant. Korpg was proposing that Wikia and GE are the first source for FFXI information, and that BGWiki simply copies from them. This is straight up wrong. Wikia benefits from a longer lifespan, a significantly wider user base, and (now this is important) very lax editing standards.

People post straight up wrong information on Wikia all the time. Practically nothing is cited or tested, and what has been tested is generally just stolen without any citation whatsoever from the Allakhazam or BG mathies that tested it. Sure, Wikia has more information, but it also has a significantly lower quality of information available.

BGWiki's fatal flaw is the fact that the submitters are so meticulous about adding information. Nothing goes on until it has been tested and proven. Anything that hasn't been tested, just stays blank until it is. When you go to BGWiki, you know that damn near every piece of information there is 100% accurate and confirmed by multiple people/sources. Unfortunately, the people able/willing to do that sort of testing and analysis are few and far between, and they don't exactly have mountains of free time. Testing even one JA/JT can take hours if done properly.

GE is basically a copy-paste of Wikia with some newer copy-paste from BG and has no real distinguishing features aside from being "moderated".

If you want general, Take-with-a-grain-of-salt information on random crap like AF quests, Wikia is fine as long as you can sift through the bullshit and incorrect information. If you want up to date information on the newest stuff in the game as soon as possible, check BGWiki. If you don't want to deal with the bullshit-o-meter and just want correct information, check BGWiki first and then check Wikia if they just haven't finished that page yet. But to come in and call BG unreliable and slow is just ignorant. I'm sorry if the website upsets you, but that doesn't make it any less credible.

In Korpg's case, was FFXIAH really any better to you? =/ Every thread I read there consisted primarily of "stfu fatpg". At least BG banned you so you didn't have to deal with constant abuse. It was for your own good, bro.

[Easykiller]

I've created a new thread for BGWiki People to argue their superiority on.

Please continue the troll/flame war there: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14553-Which-WIKI-is-king!?p=192839#post192839

and leave this thread for its actual topic.

/sigh... I tried

[MarkovChain]

Not really. If you want fresh new information you read JP forums. Arguing otherwise means you think only NA play the game. If you want solid information on, say, how an event works, you probably want to check the wiki unless it's voidwatch (nothing was lost). If you want perfect info on how an event works, you play the game. If you don't like wikia info, edit, problem solved. I think some people have problem with diffusing information to the mass. If you are mad at the sources lacking post them. Internet credits.

[Yugl]

What is wiki anyway, besides a compilation of sources of information into one simple to use website. Are you going to start accusing all wikis of "stealing" information then? Wikis are great places to start looking for information and can expand on that information based on sources (FFXI wiki doesn't really need sources since most of the information there can be verified on the game, not from other sources of information (forums), you can do the missions and battlefields from the information on the wiki instead of having to look at pointless jabber (BG, KI, FFXIAH) for pages on end to get the little jewel of information those websites offer on occasion).

It is funny to claim knowledge on a game. There is no real plagiarism because all aspects of your knowledge is based on a recreation activity and not on actual important information you would need to make real decisions of your life. But keep fighting for the right to say that you came up with that aspect of how to swing an axe on an online game.

1. Compilations of sources use citations. If they do not, they are stealing intangible property.
2. Citation aren't just for verification. Nor do they mean the information written is correct.
3. Guides are different from mechanics. I would hope you know this by now.
4. Much of Wiki's mission derives from that "pointless jabber." You wouldn't know this though since GE doesn't cite stuff.

Edit: Wait, people think much more discussion is going to come out of a thread about a preexisting limit break quest? Really?

[Gokku]

Alhanelem please stop being a tool and take your posts out of the clean thread you and korpg have made your points known and already ruined 1 thread stop acting like children if you have no usefull info please leave the thread.

[Alhanelem]

Gokku stop being a tool and acting like you can give orders to people on a public forum.

Personally, I don't know why you, someone who has not been on the test server, is trying to be an authority figure on information on the test server.

There was no need to erase your original post just because the topic derailed. Reposting a derailed topic and trying to direct people away from it by erasing what meaningful information it did contain is an immature thing to do, as is flaming and attacking me and others when they made legitimate comments, right or wrong as they may have been. I also like how you're pegging this on me when i had little to do with the direction this topic took.

[Greatguardian]

He was bringing Fire from the Gods in Mount Olympus to the Mortals down below. Stop pecking out his liver.

It doesn't matter if he plays on the test server or not. The info is solid, was collected elsewhere, and he had the good sense to share it here. The readership of this board rarely coincides with the readership of BG, so this is new information to most people. He did a good dead. Get the hell out.

[Alhanelem]

He was bringing Fire from the Gods in Mount Olympus to the Mortals down below. Stop pecking out his liver.Well, that's an accurate way of putting it.

It does matter if he did or not, because then it would be straight from the horses mouth instead of "I read on some other forum that someone heard that someone said this was the limit break quest."

Regardless of that, you just post information, and hope people read it. If the topic derails, erasing the info from it and reposting it elsewhere doesn't help anything.

[Greatguardian]

Posting hearsay is only a bad thing when people do it without citing any source, any testing, or any proof.

He cited all of these things. He cited multiple testimonials, dat mines, and has handled questions and criticism remarkably well (eg, adjusting the OP when it was proven that multiple items could work for the quest).

Firsthand experience is not necessary when experience is properly tested and documented. We're not talking about pulling crap from GE and not knowing who the hell posted it or where they got their information from.

[Alhanelem]

First hand experience, where it is reasonably possible, is much better than just referring to something else, especially when the information source post appeared to be questionable at first. It wouldn't have mattered if the post linked was on any other site.

Unless Gokku can tell me that he doesn't have reasonable access to the test server (e.g. doesn't play on the PC at all), it would not have been that difficult to just go on there and verify the information.

He also was being extremely rude after we posted relevant comments (that were based on a misreading of the post, but still relevant comments). I expect people to be civil in disagreement.

[Gokku]

the other threads there so people can post anything not listed already trying to get as big of a list as possible. at no point did i ever claim the info was mine i cited the sorces for the info and made this thread in hopes people would A. read it and B. post any other items found *and some did but thats been lost in the pissing contest*

your doing more to hurt the community then help it alhanelem. attacking any thread regardless of how good the info is because you dont like the poster or the source is idiotic

and when have i said i was an authority figure on the info lol. ive just been doing my best to keep it up to date and when i can i link the info to wiki pages so people have an even easier to find list of what drops were.

[Alhanelem]

your doing more to hurt the community then help it alhanelem. attacking any thread regardless of how good the info is because you dont like the poster or the source is idiotic I'm not attacking threads for laughs and giggles. In fact, I'm not attacking the thread itself, only posting my reaction to what I saw. You are once again being rude and insulting. I didn't accuse you of plagarizing, so I don't know why you're being defensive like that.

[Gokku]

has a single post of yours in that thread pertained to the point of that thread? If yes and you have further not listed items to add please post it , if NO please leave the tread alone.

simple enough.

[Alhanelem]

has a single post of yours in that thread pertained to the point of that thread?Yes, it has. It doesn't have to be an addition to the list of items to be relevant to the topic. So please stop trying to give me orders.

[Kimble]

Yes, it has. It doesn't have to be an addition to the list of items to be relevant to the topic. So please stop trying to give me orders.

You havent done one thing to be helpful in this thread. What have you done besides cause a crap storm over nothing?

"Hey guys, im here to share some info from a credible source" "LULZ U DIDNT FOUND IT URSELFZ, ITS NOT TRU"

[Gokku]

if your going to quote please quote the whole post im being very civil with you , and you seem to refuse to afford the same.

[Alhanelem]

if your going to quote please quote the whole post im being very civil with you , and you seem to refuse to afford the same.

What he's saying is that you need to mention that fact in the post. Your list makes it look as if you need all of those items, not just one of them. This post was intended to be helpful. I made a mistake and missed an important word in the OP, but in handling the issue (you did improve the post) you were extremely rude about it, . I absolutely am affording you civility. I have not been making personal stabs at you.

Rearden, you have just crossed the line.

[Greatguardian]

Rearden, you have just crossed the line.

Is that why you deleted his posts?

[Alhanelem]

Is that why you deleted his posts?
Aren't you the funny one.

He just knows his posts contained personal attacks/libel/slander/whatever so he just deleted them in a creative way to try defame me further.

[Yugl]

First hand experience, where it is reasonably possible, is much better than just referring to something else, especially when the information source post appeared to be questionable at first. It wouldn't have mattered if the post linked was on any other site.

That's illogical. The probability of a person lying about first hand experience is going to be equal to someone reporting on another individual's findings to the extent that the reporter is sincere about their report (To avoid the "Telephone" effect). Since it's cited, the problem aforementioned is not present.

[Rearden]

Aren't you the funny one.

He just knows his posts contained personal attacks/libel/slander/whatever so he just deleted them in a creative way to try defame me further.

Analhelm you have just crossed the line

[Alhanelem]

That's illogical. The probability of a person lying about first hand experience is going to be equal to someone reporting on another individual's findings to the extent that the reporter is sincere about their report (To avoid the "Telephone" effect). Since it's cited, the problem aforementioned is not present.Citing a source does not make the source accurate. It's at best no better than posting firsthand experience (and supporting it with things like screenshots) unless other people with experience validate the source.

[Yugl]

Citing a source does not make the source accurate. It's at best no better than posting firsthand experience (and supporting it with things like screenshots) unless other people with experience validate the source.

That's precisely my point. Hence why this


First hand experience, where it is reasonably possible, is much better than just referring to something else, especially when the information source post appeared to be questionable at first. It wouldn't have mattered if the post linked was on any other site.

is an illogical assertion.

[MDenham]

This thread delivers something now, but whatever it's delivering I don't believe I ordered.

[Meyi]

Gokku, since the other thread was locked, would you be willing to change the OP here to match that OP? :D

Was an awesome read of 14 pages though. I had quite a few laughs.

[Gokku]

re added the info since analhelm got the clear thread locked.

[Korpg]

re added the info since analhelm got the clear thread locked.

No, it was locked because you created the most drama on that thread, even though you were the one who was requesting to keep that thread drama free.

[Gokku]

right because it was me who couldn't read a OP to see that my post was irrelevant and already covered and got but hurt by being called out and asked to leave.

[Korpg]

right because it was me who couldn't read a OP to see that my post was irrelevant and already covered and got but hurt by being called out and asked to leave.

It was you. I pointed out one mistake you made, and you got all offensive and made a quick edit so you can try to prove you didn't make your mistake. Then, like the sheep they are, you got your BG butties to come in and chime on your thread, just like this thread.

Why do you even bother anymore? Is it slow on BG and you all decided to come here to create troll threads like this just so you can have fun with your witless banter? Cause it gets kindof annoying.

[Byrth]

Why do you even bother anymore? Is it slow on BG and you all decided to come here to create troll threads like this just so you can have fun with your witless banter? Cause it gets kindof annoying.

Korpg, you have 2,173 posts and I've yet to see you contribute any new information or ideas to any conversation. You just pick at others' opinions and argue about them without providing any evidence to support your claims. Regardless whether you're right or wrong in any given circumstance, no one gains anything from your input because you don't present your viewpoint in a credible manner and generally instigate bickering.

Have you nothing better to do?

[Korpg]

Korpg, you have 2,173 posts and I've yet to see you contribute any new information or ideas to any conversation. You just pick at others' opinions and argue about them without providing any evidence to support your claims. Regardless whether you're right or wrong in any given circumstance, no one gains anything from your input because you don't present your viewpoint in a credible manner and generally instigate bickering.

Have you nothing better to do?

We each have our own idea of contributing. What you think as contributing is telling people what to wear and do, I feel that contributing to the topic at hand is showing what is wrong with their ideas and what to do to fix it. Yes, I do pick at other's opinions (just as you do, and most anyone else does) but I do, on occasion and when it deems necessary, provide evidence to support my claims. You must not be looking hard enough.

I'm sure that people have gained newer viewpoints in the whole picture, but, because you don't like me, you turn your blinders on when it comes to what I'm actually saying and automatically jump on the idea that I'm instigating a fight.

But you are right, I do have better things to do. Which is why you only see me at specific points of time and generally for 20-30 minutes or so, because I don't really want to go back to what I was previously doing.

But you should look at yourself before accusing me of instigating fights and bickering. I seen you and others from your website cause more fights than I have ever attempted in my life.

Oh, and you want evidence in that claim? Look at the tags.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Ignore List: Apply directly to the forehead!

[Alhanelem]

Ignore List: Apply directly to the forehead!
You mean... Ignore-On! Apply...

+1 well played.

[katz]

....not everyone has access to the test server.....
its pc users only, post when asked

[Kuishen]

You mean... Ignore-On! Apply...

+1 well played.

Would like to point out that they can't simply put you on their Ignore list because of the sheer amount of rampant misinformation that you, Korpg and others spread at an alarming rate and thus have to point out that it's misinformation to keep everybody on these bloody forums from becoming less intelligible about the game.

I honestly feel for people like Yugl and Byrth because they're part of a small group of individuals that keeps the misinformation to a minimal on these forums, and that is no small task thanks to people like you.

[Korpg]

Would like to point out that they can't simply put you on their Ignore list because of the sheer amount of rampant misinformation that you, Korpg and others spread at an alarming rate and thus have to point out that it's misinformation to keep everybody on these bloody forums from becoming less intelligible about the game.

I honestly feel for people like Yugl and Byrth because they're part of a small group of individuals that keeps the misinformation to a minimal on these forums, and that is no small task thanks to people like you.

Don't you have that backwards?

Only thing that they contributed to this forum is their inane ideas that they are better than everyone who has ever breathed and that their total contributions to this game is greater than the developers of this game themselves.

[Alhanelem]

Would like to point out that they can't simply put you on their Ignore list because of the sheer amount of rampant misinformation that you, Korpg and others spread at an alarming rate and thus have to point out that it's misinformation to keep everybody on these bloody forums from becoming less intelligible about the game.Excuse me??

For one, I don't think he was referring to me, he was referring to the person above whose post was deleted by moderators.

For two, I'm not "spreading misinformation' anywhere. In fact I haven't seen any mentioned person "spread" any "misinformation" at all. We don't knowingly offer misnformation, nor do we try to "spread" it. I find your post offensive and insulting, as none of it is based in fact. This is a blatant attack on me and others and nothing more. I invite you to prove me wrong by citing actual "misinformation" that I both gave and tried to "spread" - because I do not do that, and if I do unknowingly make an error and discover it, I will happily correct it. I'm inclined to believe you just see me and the named others as easy trolling targets and are simply trying to anger us for your own entertainment.

[Kuishen]

@Korpg

No, apparently YOU think you're gods gift to the community because all YOU ever seem to do is try to refute sound logic, valid points, and information backed up with mathematical proof.

@Alhanelem

Ok sorry, poor choice of words as you are correct, I haven't actually seen you post misinformation. What you have done though is muck up threads and prevent the spreading of correct information with your inane bullshit and personal grudges.

Is that better?

EDIT: Case in point is this entire thread.

[Korpg]

@Korpg

No, apparently YOU think you're gods gift to the community because all YOU ever seem to do is try to refute sound logic, valid points, and information backed up with mathematical proof.


Show me a post where I have refuted sound logic, valid points, and especially, information backed up with mathematical proof. Because I think you are full of sh...

[Alhanelem]

Ok sorry, poor choice of words as you are correct, I haven't actually seen you post misinformation. What you have done though is muck up threads and prevent the spreading of correct information with your inane bullshit and personal grudges.You're welcome to your opinion, off base as it may be, however I can accept the apology and admission.

[Kuishen]

Show me a post where I have refuted sound logic, valid points, and especially, information backed up with mathematical proof. Because I think you are full of sh...

You're obviously blind to it so pointing it out to you would do no good. Just came in here to point something out to both of you, not to get into a drawn out argument. Do with it what you will.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Would like to point out that they can't simply put you on their Ignore list

Oh yes I can!

See, they will always be posting their brand of wisdom whenever presented any sort of opportunity. Always. And I'm simply not being paid enough to try to be the "Voice of Reason" here.

On these boards we have been denied any sort of group control to ostracize the undesirables, by design apparently. We are only granted individual tools, and the individual must therefore fend for themselves.

The only way you can realy "help" is by giving accurate information in response to valid questions, and let the recipient themselves decide which posters have value and which do not. Getting involved in a never-ending shouting match helps absolutely nobody, and ultimately makes you yourself a part of the general problem.

The upshot is that half the posts in this thread are blocked thanks to my ever-growing Ignore List, and when I see a post blocked, I know with confidence that nothing of value has been lost.

Let the reps and the mods deal with this. They're the ones that are actually being paid to put up with it to begin with.

[Vold]

Possibly the most important link that will ever be posted on these forums http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLsyNBnE5M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLsyNBnE5M)

[TybudX]

Puppies are cuter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[Korpg]

You're obviously blind to it so pointing it out to you would do no good. Just came in here to point something out to both of you, not to get into a drawn out argument. Do with it what you will.

In other words, you have nothing. Just like most of BG.

Got it.

[Kimble]

Seems like you have a hard time letting go.

The first step, is acceptance. Perhaps when you do that, we can move on with the other steps.

[Korpg]

Seems like you have a hard time letting go.

The first step, is acceptance. Perhaps when you do that, we can move on with the other steps.

I accepted that BG is a semi-informative website, with most of it derived from pointless bickering and inane measuring of each other's "e-peen."

But you are right, the first step is acceptance. You should try that sometimes.

[Gokku]

Korg in direct relation to the original topic of this post what have you contributed thus far?

[Kimble]

Pretty sure most of the information you get are from people that post on BG as well. Just because YOU PERSONALLY have a problem with a place, doesn't make their information any less right.

Yes Elitist can be "annoying" but they are usually the ones that take the time to test and math things out that most of the player base is to lazy or unwilling to do.

[Korpg]

Pretty sure most of the information you get are from people that post on BG as well. Just because YOU PERSONALLY have a problem with a place, doesn't make their information any less right.

Only problem I personally have with the place is it's moderation.

A problem that I have with people referencing that place as the end/all solution of all information from FFXI is that most of that information is public knowledge, and the only things that BG has contributed to the game is understanding of certain aspects of the game by way of mathematical know-how. But even then, some of the posts with "mathy parts" can be incorrect and some are using dated information. But you cannot say that the website is even close to be informational when most of the posters there are so stuck up each other's rumps that they cannot think for themselves and accept whatever certain posters type as gospel.

I have never said that BG doesn't contribute, but don't take people's word for it only by sourcing them without verifying the source (which is what Gokku did at first).

[MarkovChain]

Yes Elitist can be "annoying" but they are usually the ones that take the time to test and math things out that most of the player base is to lazy or unwilling to do.

Nope. BG is full of trolls that spam the media thread QQing about how people are wrong on this forum or someone does not agree with them. There is actually a large minority of competent people overthere, and I count less than 2. But maybe you can list me more than 2 testers from BG ? I know byrth, kirshy and maybe yugl, otherwise they are are all pretty much clueless and definitely not elitist. I'm not sure if any of BG got their empy at the right time for instance, all of them just got it at the same time as the playerbase, aka past december haha. Elitism 101.

[Concerned4FFxi]

yes runespider im so glad you shared my thoughts exactly. I dont want the cap quest to 95 to be hiddeously difficult or extremely annoying like the 80 cap was before they adjusted drop rates on kindred crests, but this is a joke like spider said and I agree 100% if its gonna be a joke just dont bother SE making it into a quest, just have it the mini game if you cant make it into a real quest I am sick and tired of kindred crest quests and merit points being an easy way to do level caps past 75.

I want a challenge, like the other ones where, we are at 90 i think i deserve a little difficulty now and again. Take a long look at the pre-75 cap quests, while they where time consuming they felt so good to complete, now its just a mail in merit/kindred crest hoax. 76-90 were all the same junk, 91-99 should be a return to story and a little bit of an adventure, this is what veteran players are complaining about SE. By taking a challenging game and turning it into a casual play, you are destroying the loyal fan base. Guess what, the people who are casual players won't stay for long, a year or maybe two but its people like myself that enjoy the challenge of the game and have lined the SE coffers for years and will only continue to do so if the game keeps its appeal which challenges its players.

I understand some functions of the game will be for casual playing and I have no problem with that, however if the cap quests are any prelude of the 99 endgame to come then I'll never buy another mmo from SE again becasue they had a better game before the updates and they would have an even better game now if a little bit of creative thought is put into the major quests like cap increases for players and their adventruring fellows (skyrim is about to be out soon, nows not the time to produce lame content).

Now I've been seriously upset with the last 3 cap increases being so boring and crappy AND repeatitive, you repackaged the same quest i feel for the last three cap increases!!. I swear SE you are not listing one bit (or your listing to the wrong people) you made the last two cap increases for adventuring fellows like trash and if 95 is like this i just dont know anymore. Take a good long look at what you've done so far for all the cap quests. See how rich and detailed the others were. i can understand that some were difficult if you couldn't get help, and SE doesnt want that for 95 and i can agree to a point, but to make it more of the last three junkie merit garbage its just <i really really wanna start droping f-bombs, getting nasty and screaming my head off here people- i cant stress this to you any louder without losing your focus or being banned myself>.

FYI - 99 better be good and yes i think 99 should be a maat type fight or something worthy of 99 (I'd like to see it be maat and his buddy from the last cap to 90 and tis time you have to fight both at the same time in a bcnm), if its just more hand me up some cap increase with my easy xp and heres your casual gameplay endgame and tell me to have fun, then your worse than the lobbyists here in the US.

How hard can it be to add a ??? to throne room (S) for the quest to be completed or something. Sure somebody will complain and say, aaaawwwwhh we gotta go there to do 95 cap and get the ki from the ???. But to that I say lol, if at 90 you cant get a rr item, sneak and invisible, and go to throne room (S) then you dont deserve 95+. This would be more exciting than repeating the same thing i've seen the past three cap increases. I truly believed that you werent gonna do this a fourth time, i gave you a pass SE on the last three and told myself that you had to rush to 90 but 95 and 99 would be better. Prove to me that my faith was right because I'm having one huge case of regret.

PS- i try not to get nasty in my posts and i think ive done a good job but this really burns me to the core and im not the only one here, while lots of people here seem to have been derailed from side topics in this posting, I think if you ask the player base they will tell you that this limit quest doesn't meet the standard and is unacceptable. What kinda junk is the 99 cap gonna be then? a flower from the flower store in jueno, oh and +20 merits right? maybe add a kindred high crest for lol too right? I dont like being sarcastic but at this point i just dont know what to say anymore the game I love is being watered down and I feel like im choking over here. /cry. Where did the quality go, when we asked for more content we didnt ask for it to held together with duck tape. I am flipping mad over here. An orcish ax, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? seriuosly, ignore this and other posts like this and ffxi will be dead and if you get the new psp ffxi access who's gonna be around to help the noobs? wont be me. I tell people to keep faith, catch up on your gear and quests now and endgame will come after 99cap, that the psp will bring new players, but i'm having trouble myself keeping the torch of hope lit.

[Kimble]

Nope. BG is full of trolls that spam the media thread QQing about how people are wrong on this forum or someone does not agree with them. There is actually a large minority of competent people overthere, and I count less than 2. But maybe you can list me more than 2 testers from BG ? I know byrth, kirshy and maybe yugl, otherwise they are are all pretty much clueless and definitely not elitist. I'm not sure if any of BG got their empy at the right time for instance, all of them just got it at the same time as the playerbase, aka past december haha. Elitism 101.

So by your own standards then, you are just as "bad" as they are then right? Since you got your weapon past December?

[MDenham]

Guess what, the people who are casual players won't stay for long, a year or maybe twoI got to this and realized you're an idiot.

Casual player for seven and a half years here.

[Alhanelem]

It's just a game. People come and go all the time.

Lots of "casual" players play the game on and off for a long period of time. They don't play for many hours in one sitting, thus casual, but that doesn't mean they don't continue to play after months and years have passed.

[wish12oz]

Nope. BG is full of trolls that spam the media thread QQing about how people are wrong on this forum or someone does not agree with them. There is actually a large minority of competent people overthere, and I count less than 2. But maybe you can list me more than 2 testers from BG ? I know byrth, kirshy and maybe yugl, otherwise they are are all pretty much clueless and definitely not elitist. I'm not sure if any of BG got their empy at the right time for instance, all of them just got it at the same time as the playerbase, aka past december haha. Elitism 101.

It's funny how Pchan says this, but acquired his ONE weapon much later then all those people on BG (who have done many by now) he has such a problem with. Did you ever even get that ONE set of empyrean armor for yourself or are you still rocking full usukane and thinking it's the best?

And if anyone bothered to look at BG you'd find the 2 most informative things regarding FFXI ever in the history of FFXI.

Whats Better?:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/105811-What-s-Better

Random Question Thread:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106587-Random-Question-Thread-XXIII-Neun-und-Neunzig-Luft-RQs

[Aver]

[Insert comment about not wanting to read through pages of a thread to find an answer even though the search button is *right there* and actually works unlike other forums]

[wish12oz]

[Insert comment about not wanting to read through pages of a thread to find an answer even though the search button is *right there* and actually works unlike other forums]

Why would you search through the forums when you could just post the question, favorite the address, then come back in 12 hours and read replies? Those threads are there specifically so people can ask the same thing 50 times and not crap up the forum with new threads.

[Aver]

I personally thought that was frowned upon, but I just recently started posting again there too so I'm sure things have changed since the server change.

[Sparthos]

Only problem I personally have with the place is it's moderation.

A problem that I have with people referencing that place as the end/all solution of all information from FFXI is that most of that information is public knowledge, and the only things that BG has contributed to the game is understanding of certain aspects of the game by way of mathematical know-how. But even then, some of the posts with "mathy parts" can be incorrect and some are using dated information. But you cannot say that the website is even close to be informational when most of the posters there are so stuck up each other's rumps that they cannot think for themselves and accept whatever certain posters type as gospel.

I have never said that BG doesn't contribute, but don't take people's word for it only by sourcing them without verifying the source (which is what Gokku did at first).

Every forum has it's own attitude and style that comes with pros and cons.

FFXIAH can be informative via update dumps and isolated chatter but overall the site is moderated to hell (cmon, swear words warrant post deletion?) and the information to be gleamed from the site is little to none. I personally enjoy the non-FFXI sections more than the XI-related.

ZAM's job forums had detailed information put up by individuals like Kinematics which were useful to better understanding your class but General is just a total mess and moderation over the years was so laissez-faire that the site suffered from an influx of stupid that was allowed to grow, mature and become part of the daily life of the site. If FFXIAH overmoderated, ZAM left the forums on autopilot.

Official forums are a collection of whining to SE and trollposts with no intention other than to rub some crowd the wrong way. While some good things have arisen like Kingfury's art thread, the Haste and you thread, History of Vana'diel and mixed feedback that SE seems to be taking seriously, the forums are also burdened with stupidity like flying mounts, Vana'diel to the future! and "here's my new job class that sucks" threads.

BG comes off as having a sophomoric attitude but many contributors run mundane tests that overall benefit the community. Sure, they'll be things like discussions of unsavory tools that make certain bloggists blood boil, insults hurled at the drop of a hat just for the sake of doing it or even bans handed out for being on the wrong side of a argument but overall if your skin is thick and follow the rules you'll find one of the most balanced XI forums still running.

[Alhanelem]

FFXIAH can be informative via update dumps and isolated chatter but overall the site is moderated to hell (cmon, swear words warrant post deletion?)According to Scragg, they did this because they were about to lose one of their key ad sponsors because the general environment of the site was too foul in terms of language and behavior.

[Rearden]

And nothing of value was lost

[Sparthos]

According to Scragg, they did this because they were about to lose one of their key ad sponsors because the general environment of the site was too foul in terms of language and behavior.

Personally they went overboard imo but hey, anything for that ad revenue.

Modding racial slurs or individuals who are doing nothing but stirring a pot of shit is one thing but modding someone for "shit" and "damn" is nonsense and closing threads the second people start to disagree is nonsense.

[Kimble]

Once they lose too many members due to one of their mods being drunk with power, they will get rid of said mod due to him losing them money.

By then, it might be to late.

[Juri_Licious]

This thread has advertised Blue Gartr and I now know what it is.

A FORUM FOR BLUE ALLIGATORS!

[cidbahamut]

Once they lose too many members due to one of their mods being drunk with power, they will get rid of said mod due to him losing them money.

By then, it might be to late.
So we're lynching Krizz when FFXIAH goes down. Got it.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Mdenham, if you've played for seven years your not casual, your commited. Also, please refrain from name calling, i know its tempting in today's barbaric society to flip off people and fly off the handle at the drop of a dime but do us both a favor and contain yourself, it makes you look uneducated and low class when you dont use your manners.

[Korpg]

So we're lynching Krizz when FFXIAH goes down. Got it.

Who said you guys were going to wait that long. The lynching has already begun.

[cidbahamut]

Who said you guys were going to wait that long. The lynching has already begun.

Link me bro.

[Korpg]

Link me bro.

Who said it started with Krizz?

[cidbahamut]

You got my hopes up.

Now I has a sad.

[Alhanelem]

Mdenham, if you've played for seven years your not casual, your commited. Also, please refrain from name calling, i know its tempting in today's barbaric society to flip off people and fly off the handle at the drop of a dime but do us both a favor and contain yourself, it makes you look uneducated and low class when you dont use your manners.
Casual does not mean you've only played for months or a year. it only means you aren't a "no lifer" and don't spend hours every single day playing.

[Gokku]

you mean your deffinition of casual is that, anyone whos been playing for years is far from casual either by the money they have invested or the time they have spent. time = money and money = time not getting away from it.

[MarkovChain]

Casual does not mean you've only played for months or a year. it only means you aren't a "no lifer" and don't spend hours every single day playing.

Wrong. Casual players are people that don't play the game seriously. The only possible definition is a low number of hours per week. Anything greater than say 15 hours a week is damn hardcore.

[MDenham]

Wrong. Casual players are people that don't play the game seriously. The only possible definition is a low number of hours per week. Anything greater than say 15 hours a week is damn hardcore.I still fit that; I average about seven hours a week over the last seven and a half years.

Even dumping the roughly a year where I wasn't playing at all, that's still only eight hours a week or so.

So: there is still overlap between "people who have played for more than a year or two" and "casual players".

[noodles355]

For the record the BG Random Question Threads and Whats Better Threads are probably two of the most useful and most helpful forum topics relating to FFXI on the internet. In general the people who post there post because they want to improve themselves. The people who reply are ones who'd found the answers or have seen the answers mentioned somewhere else.

Saying the infomation is hard to find on BG is rubbish because their search function is pretty good, and failing that there is the aforementioned Random Question thread.
If you can't find infomation on BG it's because you're not trying.

And those are not the only two good threads. There is a lot of very valuable infomation in Advanced and Mathy Parts forums.

[Alhanelem]

Wrong. Casual players are people that don't play the game seriously. The only possible definition is a low number of hours per week. Anything greater than say 15 hours a week is damn hardcore.
So i'm right then. i said "Don't spend hours every single day playing."

Don't call me wrong then say the same thing I said. Casual vs hardcore is only a matter of how many hours you're putting in, and it's subjective just how many.

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

Why would you search through the forums when you could just post the question, favorite the address, then come back in 12 hours and read replies?

If the search function actually works, it should be about 11 hours and 55 minutes faster than the procedure you suggest.

[Gokku]

at any time of the night/day you generally get your first reply in RQT in about 5-10 mins tops

[MarkovChain]

So i'm right then. i said "Don't spend hours every single day playing."

Don't call me wrong then say the same thing I said. Casual vs hardcore is only a matter of how many hours you're putting in, and it's subjective just how many.

Yes but you should add "on average". What is systematic to hardcore players, unlike casual players, is committement overs the days/weeks/months/years. Basically if you farm anything that requries grind you are hardcore. While abyssea offers nice opportunities to casuals for instance, it's kind of made for hardcores (empy, vnms).

[Dirtyfinger]

Sweeeet I just noticed there was an ignore button!

Bye Korpg.

[Korpg]

Sweeeet I just noticed there was an ignore button!

Bye Korpg.

Nice talking to you

[noodles355]

Don't ignroe korpg. He's a craker of a chap.

[Gokku]

omg i thought this thread was gone!

[wish12oz]

Don't ignroe korpg. He's a craker of a chap.

Can you cite sources for this? I don't believe you, and don't go posting links to that BG place no one likes.

[zagam]

Just checked with the bard, My CS required a Sirens tear.

[Rearden]

Just checked with the bard, My CS required a Sirens tear.

what are your sources for this?

[zagam]

what are your sources for this?
Korpg told me

[Gokku]

OP has been updated.

[Rearden]

Korpg told me

Sounds like word of mouth which is inadmissible and might even be stolen property.

[Alhanelem]

Thanks for that.


Sirens tear * have to have no wep / gloves on? near port bastok exit* That is indeed correct. Just as if you were doing that quest.

[Gokku]

Huzzah! more views then a sticky!

[Archahngel]

I checked the npc for the LB quest and mine had asked for "Valkurm Sunsand" in case want to add that if haven't already.

[Gokku]

ty updated.

[Lordscyon]

i bid lvl 99 cap going too be
20 merit points
99 Beastmen seals
99 H crest
99 crest
99 Kindred seals

[Aver]

i bid lvl 99 cap going too be
20 merit points
99 Beastmen seals
99 H crest
99 crest
99 Kindred seals

Might as well not have a 99 cap quest then.

[Archahngel]

just logged on other character on test server and their item was "Magicked Skull" lol i'm gonna guess any of the SJ items may be possible? just guessing :P

[Broso]

Might as well not have a 99 cap quest then.

If they don't have a 99 cap quest how are people going to get to 99? Jesus H Christ.

[Topdogg]

sauces SAUCES

[Gokku]

Last Bump from me before the update hits , Take the time to farm at least some of the items listed in OP it could save you the hassle when the update hits.

[MarkovChain]

Yeah because getting items that you have no idea wether they will be in your list is totally going to help you.

[noodles355]

Tbh seems like a pretty big list of items. If it's evenly distributed between each possible item then I don't think competition will be that bad. Only need one per character, and most of them have pretty decent drop rates iirc (the SJ ones do anyway, they changed that a while ago).

[Alhanelem]

What's the title of the quest, so I can wikify the details? I can't log on to the test server right now.

[Elexia]

Yeah because getting items that you have no idea wether they will be in your list is totally going to help you.

Actually, if you had a brain you'd know getting certain items early will be beneficial because everyone will scramble and turn normal monster slaying into NM camping, which I suppose is SE's definition of a challenge.

Remember ACP/ASA/MKE?

[Andevom]

Geez, how about we just wait until the update comes and figure out what we have to do then? Don't be so impatient; it's not like there's a special prize for being one of the first players to get to Lv. 91.

[Leonlionheart]

Geez, how about we just wait until the update comes and figure out what we have to do then? Don't be so impatient; it's not like there's a special prize for being one of the first players to get to Lv. 91.

welcome to ffxi, where epeen is the only thing that matters

[Gokku]

welcome to ffxi, where epeen is the only thing that matters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4BebB5HfrY

[Kihrre]

Geez, how about we just wait until the update comes and figure out what we have to do then? Don't be so impatient; it's not like there's a special prize for being one of the first players to get to Lv. 91.

hmm... WoW's "Realm first xxx" ? :D

[Sparthos]

Geez, how about we just wait until the update comes and figure out what we have to do then? Don't be so impatient; it's not like there's a special prize for being one of the first players to get to Lv. 91.

I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST, THAT NO ONE EVER WAS...

[Andevom]

I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST, THAT NO ONE EVER WAS...

No one, except for 4000+ people the very first hour.

[Alhanelem]

I've added the quest over at GE (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dormant_Powers_Dislodged) with thanks to Gokku for compiling the list of possible items.

[Aver]

I've added the quest over at GE (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dormant_Powers_Dislodged) with thanks to Gokku for compiling the list of possible items.

Thanks dude, but it's 90-95, not 85-90 :)

[Yugl]

Geez, how about we just wait until the update comes and figure out what we have to do then? Don't be so impatient; it's not like there's a special prize for being one of the first players to get to Lv. 91.

Because if everyone had this mentality, we have thousands of players hunting a sub-selection of items. You guys should be thankful to people who compiled the list and to those who farmed prior so that you would have less competition.

[Gokku]

list updated again with what im hearing from people in vent. still 30mins till i can log in -_-

[Gokku]

who just sold a sunsand for 100k I DID

[Gokulo]

God, why I didn't think of selling the one I got. I picked Orcish Axe and threw it away. One guy I know bought it for 300k :<

[Andevom]

God, why I didn't think of selling the one I got. I picked Orcish Axe and threw it away. One guy I know bought it for 300k :<

He bought a Rare/Ex item off someone?

[Alhanelem]

Thanks dude, but it's 90-95, not 85-90 :)
yea... i should probably pay more attention and be in less of a hurry. ;p

Got a lot of work to do...

[BobTheGreat]

OMG KYUBEY IN A TARU o.O

Madoka reference ftw

[Tsukino_Kaji]

OMG KYUBEY IN A TARU o.O

Madoka reference ftwHurray for maho shoujo!

[BobTheGreat]

Hurray for maho shoujo!

Now I'm just worried I'm gonna get my head bitten off by a giant clown-snake.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Now I'm just worried I'm gonna get my head bitten off by a giant clown-snake.Worst death ever. That's ok, she was just a superfluous character anyway.

[cidbahamut]

OMG KYUBEY IN A TARU o.O

Madoka reference ftw

That actually pissed me off quite a bit.

[Scar]

I've added the quest over at GE (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dormant_Powers_Dislodged) with thanks to Gokku for compiling the list of possible items.

Gokku provided his source for the information. Why not cite his source?

[Alhanelem]

Gokku provided his source for the information. Why not cite his source?
Because Gokku was the primary source leading to the information being included on the page. Gokku's sources would be secondary sources, and anyone who visits the link will see his sources. You aren't obligated to trace the sources of something beyond where you got it from. You never see "Source: Joe Schmoe, whose source was something.com, whose source was Tip Tappers, whose source was original research." When someone has backed up their information by providing sources, you can therefore trust that person/site/body as a source.

[Komori]

Aha. This quest was too easy, my needed item was Dhalmel Saliva and only 18 other people were in the zone. Switched to 90 THF and got it on the third kill. This was easier than 85 > 90.

[Greatguardian]

Because Gokku was the primary source leading to the information being included on the page. Gokku's sources would be secondary sources, and anyone who visits the link will see his sources. You aren't obligated to trace the sources of something beyond where you got it from. You never see "Source: Joe Schmoe, whose source was something.com, whose source was Tip Tappers, whose source was original research." When someone has backed up their information by providing sources, you can therefore trust that person/site/body as a source.

Actually, you do. Technically it would be most correct to cite Gokku's source as the original source, and then add "Compiled by" or "Additional information provided by" and then add Gokku and this thread. When you cite someone who is also citing a source, you always link back to the original source of the material. It's just courtesy. I doubt anyone will really come in banging heads over it, but it is what it is.

[Alhanelem]

If I go to Wikipedia and use an article as a source in a paper, I cite the wikipedia article as the source. I don't list every reference cited in the wikipedia article. (Not saying that wikipedia makes the best source, it's just an example. The same thing happens when I read a book- I cite that book as the source, not the book's sources)

[Ank]

No one would accept wiki as a source.

[Alhanelem]

No one would accept wiki as a source.
Lots of instructors do. Others accept it as long as it isn't your only source. Some instructors consider it to be too unreliable and don't allow it. That's all beside the point though, it's just an example as I said.

[cidbahamut]

Lots of instructors do.

Those instructors are terrible then. The standard is to not allow wiki but encourage students to use it as a starting point and dig through the sources the wiki article cites.

[Greatguardian]

This thread is a secondary source with supplementary primary sources in the form of the respondees. The original primary source was BG, however all of the links in the OP are broken so I'd leave that to Gokku to fix.

Instructors should not allow citing of Wikipedia for facts because Wikipedia is a secondary source. When citing opinions, or analysis, secondary sources are acceptable. When citing raw data or facts, primary sources are required. In this case, we are not looking at someone's analysis or critique on the quest details, but at the quest details themselves, which require the citing of a primary source.

Example: Kinematics creates a MNK DPS spreadsheet on Alla. Cream Soda reposts said spreadsheet on FFXIAH, citing Kinematics original work. A third poster would not cite Cream Soda, because he is a secondary source. They would cite Kinematics, even if they linked to the FFXIAH thread, because he was the primary source of the work.

It doesn't matter how long the chain is, the original author always maintains the credit for their material.

[Alhanelem]

Those instructors are terrible then. The standard is to not allow wiki but encourage students to use it as a starting point and dig through the sources the wiki article cites. There is no standard. It's up to the individual instructor and the demands of the particular assignment. Those instructors are not necessarily "terrible." You can always go to the sources cited by the wikipedia article and use those directly if the assignement or instructor's policies demand it.


This thread is a secondary source with supplementary primary sources in the form of the respondeesOK, you got me there.

I'm not going to be held responsible for "crapping up" another thread. I'm not going to say anything further.

[Ank]

Well as an example its great, I don't know what kind of instructors you have, but none of mine would ever accept wiki as a source. Of course you're supposed to have multiple sources as well, for papers and such. But the point really is: wiki is a collection of knowledge with the better articles being well sourced, if I used wiki to find information it is the sources that I would use in a paper, not wiki itself. Which is the point so and so tried to argue, not that I'm against or arguing against goku being listed as a source per se.

[Alhanelem]

OK, one last thing:
Wikipedia was much younger when I went to school, and I concede rules may be very different now than when I went through. Even if we weren't allowed to specifically use it as a cited source, we were encouraged to use it as a means to find other sources. I still feel it's appropriate and acceptable in this case for me to cite Gokku given that he did some of the work by collecting information that came from other users in the thread as well as outside sources.

[Anathiel]

I'm stuck at work. Is it actually the quest? And are the zones completely full of peopl trying to get items first?

[Komori]

I would assume some are, ecspecially for rarer items. But yes, it's one random rare/ex item, one kindred crest and ten merit points.

My rare/ex item was dhalmel saliva and only 18 people were camping it on Bismarck. Assuming that everyone in the zone at the time was hunting the same item. I didn't really check, and got it on the third kill.

[Greatguardian]

This is really the quest. Gusgen Mines was packed to all hell on Cerberus yesterday with people hunting down Magicked Skulls.

[Yugl]

No good instructor will let you cite Wiki other than as the source for an idea. The idea of Wiki as a source of evidence is ridiculous.

[noodles355]

Wiki is a great source to cite. I love it because I can edit the wiki article to include bogus infomation to back up my bogus argument on my term paper.