[Suggestion] Give procs to all classes!

[Juri_Licious]

I'm not sure how they'd do it but I think it would be a lot more fun for Abyssea if every class could trigger procs instead of a select few.

More classes would be played which is always a good thing.

-Edit-

I don't mean every single class gets every single proc that's in the game.

[Tamoa]

Name one job that can't proc yellow, red or blue of any kind?

[Juri_Licious]

Name one job that can't proc yellow, red or blue of any kind?

Name one time you haven't seen WAR BLU WHM BLM THF NIN or gtfo in a Jueno shout?

[Sparthos]

Voidwatch.

[Juri_Licious]

Really though, giving everyone an equal proc playing field can only benefit the game.
Making Abyssea parties much more accessible.

[MarkovChain]

VW and Abyss should be like dynamis where all mage can proc with magic, all melee can proc with ws, and all abilities can proc on a given magic/ws/abi mob. The job specific proc system only makes some jobs inferior, some job superior. Procing is the only thing that matter, damage output is not important to get the drops.

[Sparthos]

Because all we need in XI is more zerging everything into the ground.

[Juri_Licious]

Because all we need in XI is more zerging everything into the ground.

This doesn't make sense.

[Tamoa]

Yes it does, if any job could proc red, yellow or blue with any ws or spell, mobs could basically just be zerged down from 100% since successfully proc'ing it would be almost guaranteed.

[Juri_Licious]

Yes it does, if any job could proc red, yellow or blue with any ws or spell, mobs could basically just be zerged down from 100% since successfully proc'ing it would be almost guaranteed.

It's not zerging if you have to Proc. According to that logic, the classes right now that can proc are zerging right now.

And I didn't mean every class gets every single proc in the game.

[Tamoa]

It's not zerging if you have to Proc. According to that logic, the classes right now that can proc are zerging right now.

And I didn't mean every class gets every single proc in the game.

No, normally people don't zerg now until after mob's been proc'ed. Usually you have to wait for a discernment hint, you don't let every melee attack the mob until you've established which kind of elemental ws you need for red stagger for example. If I'm on war, I usually let the nin get hint before I engage the mob. Mages usually cast stuff like dia, bio, flash and such to establish type of spell for yellow. Of course it might depend on what we are fighting, and party setup.

[Juri_Licious]

No, normally people don't zerg now until after mob's been proc'ed. Usually you have to wait for a discernment hint, you don't let every melee attack the mob until you've established which kind of elemental ws you need for red stagger for example. If I'm on war, I usually let the nin get hint before I engage the mob. Mages usually cast stuff like dia, bio, flash and such to establish type of spell for yellow. Of course it might depend on what we are fighting, and party setup.

I don't get how other classes getting the procs that the main proc classes have changes anything.
That sounds rather biased if only certain classes should have procs.

[Sparthos]

It's not zerging if you have to Proc. According to that logic, the classes right now that can proc are zerging right now.

And I didn't mean every class gets every single proc in the game.

If procs were made to mirror Dynamis, you'd see nothing but zerging.

The hints and specific procs are designed to slow down play as you attempt to figure out what the proc is.

If it's just general magic/JA/WS, it'd be a zergfest because there would be nothing to find. The last thing this game needs is more zerg.

[Juri_Licious]

Are you guys really implying that Abyssea wasn't made to be easier?

I wasn't the one who said it should be like Dynamis, but that is a nice idea.
There could be a way in which they can keep the proc system they have now and just give other classes their own procs.

It's only fair.

[Sparthos]

Are you guys really implying that Abyssea wasn't made to be easier?

I wasn't the one who said it should be like Dynamis, but that is a nice idea.
There could be a way in which they can keep the proc system they have now and just give other classes their own procs.

It's only fair.

Except it's cutting your nose to spite your face.

The second procs are generalized, classes will be thrown to the side in favor of the best. Voidwatch forces you to field all classes (if applicable) and to abandon extreme lowmanning to hit specific procs else you get crap for loot.

You said it yourself, Abyssea is easy. While the proc system is flawed, improvements have been made in the now relevant Voidwatch.

[hobgoblin]

Other jobs DO get procs - it's just the easiest way to cover them all with the least people, and thus the least time shouting and lowest probability of getting an alliance full of idiots - is to go with NIN + WAR for red... BLM/BRD BLU someone /NIN and a WHM for grell and MNK + WHM for blue.

Nothing in the world stopping you grabbing a DRG for raiden thrust, or a DRK for shadow of death but if you're wanting it to be mandatory for every single job in the game to be included in an 18 man abyssea alliance for anything needing procing... yeah that'll really work.

[Alhanelem]

Jobs should be invited because of their strengths, not because of procs. Adding procs to jobs that dont have as many shouldn't be necessary.

[Ophannus]

The way they distributed certain procs was very unbalanced and not well thought out.
Leaving jobs like BLM WAR and WHm being highly sought after for having a majority of the exclusive spells/WS available to them while jobs like RDM SCH DRG which only have a few being left to the side. Maybe they can make it so that weaknesses cycle in real time so when day changes, weakness changes while engaged not being set in stone at the time of the pull. At the same time they can remove the multiple procing aspect so you don't reproc weakness when the day changes. This lets all jobs be useful to an extent and if you can't find a certain proc, just wait till day change for weaknesses to cycle. Or even better make them cycle every 5-6 game hours if it hasnt' been proc'd yet.

[Bobt]

Would it be possible to somehow change the proc system in abyssea so that once a mob is claimed/spawned it somehow analyzes the jobs in that party and limits the procs to those jobs or something? It would still leave all the weaponskills and spells that job could use regardless of if they have it or not but still make it so that if they don't have a blu in the party then those spells won't be able to be the proc. Though i suppose that would just mean people invite the jobs with the fewest procs so that it's easier to get...x.x;

[Sparthos]

Would it be possible to somehow change the proc system in abyssea so that once a mob is claimed/spawned it somehow analyzes the jobs in that party and limits the procs to those jobs or something? It would still leave all the weaponskills and spells that job could use regardless of if they have it or not but still make it so that if they don't have a blu in the party then those spells won't be able to be the proc. Though i suppose that would just mean people invite the jobs with the fewest procs so that it's easier to get...x.x;

So we'd then go from lowmans to flat out solos.

I'll pop on COR then proceed to run the mob around the zone for 20mins after I hit the proc which would be one of the Quick Draw elements. You can enjoy timing out and ill be acting like a complete tool by refusing to invite anyone for help.

[Malamasala]

The second procs are generalized, classes will be thrown to the side in favor of the best.

This would have been an argument if not the best jobs had the most procs today. It is like as soon as every job can proc, you'll only go with WAR, WHM, BLM etc... which is no difference to today.

[Sparthos]

This would have been an argument if not the best jobs had the most procs today. It is like as soon as every job can proc, you'll only go with WAR, WHM, BLM etc... which is no difference to today.

Your argument fails outside Abyssea.

WAR WHM BLM do not have all the procs there and you need procs if you want any shot at loot. The thread is called "Give all procs to classes!" and Voidwatch did that.

[Rearden]

But Voidwatch is so harrrrrrd :(

I want it like Abyssea :((((((

lol, welcome to CoP FFXI nubs

[Kimara]

But Voidwatch is so harrrrrrd :(

I want it like Abyssea :((((((

lol, welcome to CoP FFXI nubs


lol this ^^. I love Voidwatch it's been nothing but fun since we started doing it. Voidwatch being hard is one of the things that make it great!

[Juri_Licious]

I'm not even talking about Voidwatch.

[MarkovChain]

But Voidwatch is so harrrrrrd :(

I want it like Abyssea :((((((

lol, welcome to CoP FFXI nubs

Voidwatch is easy and the drops suck (included the new ones that were dat mined). It's also fail because all high tier mobs don't use normal mechanis vs defense/attack/ magic etc. I'm not sure why I'd want to farm a neck that increases my damage by 1%, when I take 10% more damage first, and secondly when there is no place where damage output matters, inluding VW, mind you, and when the only thing that matters in VW is damage taken. Apparently I should feel proud of owning a piece of gear that makes me 1% stronger in outdated content. Seriously can we do a dynamis/salvage style event ? We punch, we proc, mobs drop stuff, no specific jobs needed, fun.

Btw, good luck getting 15 bodies with 3/3 tier IV access to farm the next paths (or 15 bodie with no access willing to help). It's going to be einherjar II soon.

[MarkovChain]

Your argument fails outside Abyssea.

WAR WHM BLM do not have all the procs there and you need procs if you want any shot at loot. The thread is called "Give all procs to classes!" and Voidwatch did that.

No. The weaknesses are random so if you are on the wrong job you just wasted 30 min + w/e it took you to gather ("wyvern abilities, markmanship ws"). VW is the opposite of "give all procs to all jobs", it's either try until it procs something you have or bring all jobs so you are sure...

[Malamasala]

My personal favorite is trying my 50 pacts to proc "blood pact". So far I think I've proced 2 times in 15 when it was avatar procs. Just too many to go through.

[Alhanelem]

lol this ^^. I love Voidwatch it's been nothing but fun since we started doing it. Voidwatch being hard is one of the things that make it great!
Well there are enhancements designed to ease it after you've experienced it some, but it doesn't go as far as abyssea to make everything a walk in the park. Even with all that stuff, it's still tough.

I just think with how much more difficult it is, it should be as or more rewarding than abyssea and it's not. The current available gear

I don't know if people have been trying the new ones on the test server; but the rewards need to be better for it to be compelling, so I hope the new fights have better stuff.

[Shiyo]

SE admitted they failed at the proc system in abyssea by designing dynamis and VW procs doable by any job.

[Tsuneo]

I think giving procs to all jobs was a good idea and also a bad idea. The reason it's good is always the reason that it sucks. No job is left out of being useful for procing but at the same time a group is likely to be missing a proc because of the large amount of possible procs. Abyssea should stay the way it is because of how low man oriented the event is.

[Kavik]

First off, i would like to point out what everyone has failed to mention. The system in FFXI is of JOBS! not CLASSES. This is not WoW people -.-. Your moogle does not say "Change Class kuppooooooooooooo" he says "Change Job" Linkshells are not guilds either. Get your vocabulary straight, otherwise you just sound ignorant of the game, i don't see having even 95 of every job of people knowing anything about the game seeing as you can do that in a matter of days now. That being said, all JOBS have procs, if you're going to complain about it at least be specific enough to say what event you're talking about. Personally i think the need to 'proc' something outside of abyssea is stupid. I liked the old dynamis where you could come out with 500 coins. I maintain that all SE needed to do to 'fix' dyna was give us a one time paid for hourglass and reduce the time, this whole procing system is silly. I would also like to point out, that in voidwatch you will never be able to cover all procs with the main of each job, here is why... max alliance size is 18 people, there are 20 main jobs. Every job CAN proc something in abyssea, i have proc'ed yellow on my sch, my husband has proc'd yellow on his rdm/nin. I have proc'd red with drg, could the war have proc'd yellow with his polearm skill? sure, but my proc'ing it allowed him to move to blue which we needed also, he has proc'ed blue with his pup. Just because people do not want to have to shout for 3 hrs to get 18 people to proc an NM that can be trio'd does not mean they need to give every Job a proc, raising the possible amount of proc's from 13 (for red, war can cover 12 of them with certain sub jobs) 41 blue and 55 for yellow, raising the # of procs would be counterproductive to the player base. it would make it so that you have to get say 12 people to kill successfully proc an NM that drops 4-5 kinds of seals. I don't know about anyone else, but there is no way to find 8 people that simply go to the NM to help, which means you are going to have at least 3-4 per seal, taking people MUCH longer to get the gear they want which would make all the abyssea gear/NMs overcamped and have almost HNM gear status. All this would do is cause less loot to be dropped in general, because you would have a lower chance of proc'ing the mob, also, like i said with voidwatch, there would be no way to be 100% certain of proc'ing the mob at all, 18 ppl in ally 20 main jobs.

[Leonlionheart]

Well actually, you can get 95 of every job in 60 seconds if you can type the number 95 fast enough, so there's that.

Though I think the message of your initial points about class/guild make sense.

On topic and @ OP: No, thank you.

[Quetzacoatl]

Voidwatch

yeah, because everyone cares about that event. /sarcasm

[Winrie]

First off, i would like to point out what everyone has failed to mention. The system in FFXI is of JOBS! not CLASSES. This is not WoW people -.-. Your moogle does not say "Change Class kuppooooooooooooo" he says "Change Job" Linkshells are not guilds either. Get your vocabulary straight, otherwise you just sound ignorant of the game, i don't see having even 95 of every job of people knowing anything about the game seeing as you can do that in a matter of days now. That being said, all JOBS have procs, if you're going to complain about it at least be specific enough to say what event you're talking about. Personally i think the need to 'proc' something outside of abyssea is stupid. I liked the old dynamis where you could come out with 500 coins. I maintain that all SE needed to do to 'fix' dyna was give us a one time paid for hourglass and reduce the time, this whole procing system is silly. I would also like to point out, that in voidwatch you will never be able to cover all procs with the main of each job, here is why... max alliance size is 18 people, there are 20 main jobs. Every job CAN proc something in abyssea, i have proc'ed yellow on my sch, my husband has proc'd yellow on his rdm/nin. I have proc'd red with drg, could the war have proc'd yellow with his polearm skill? sure, but my proc'ing it allowed him to move to blue which we needed also, he has proc'ed blue with his pup. Just because people do not want to have to shout for 3 hrs to get 18 people to proc an NM that can be trio'd does not mean they need to give every Job a proc, raising the possible amount of proc's from 13 (for red, war can cover 12 of them with certain sub jobs) 41 blue and 55 for yellow, raising the # of procs would be counterproductive to the player base. it would make it so that you have to get say 12 people to kill successfully proc an NM that drops 4-5 kinds of seals. I don't know about anyone else, but there is no way to find 8 people that simply go to the NM to help, which means you are going to have at least 3-4 per seal, taking people MUCH longer to get the gear they want which would make all the abyssea gear/NMs overcamped and have almost HNM gear status. All this would do is cause less loot to be dropped in general, because you would have a lower chance of proc'ing the mob, also, like i said with voidwatch, there would be no way to be 100% certain of proc'ing the mob at all, 18 ppl in ally 20 main jobs.

irrelevant complaint on terms used, even if you are correct. secondly on your dynamis comment, 500 coins on old runs and you miss it? proc system is silly? you realize if you farmed 500 coins a run with the old system you made 1,000 on average a week, as a trio i farm 300-400 coins a day.. off the 'stupid proc system' and thats on a bad day... so.. yeah...
And no one cares about voidwatch, its flawed and stupid.


And for the love of god can someone hire isladar from bg to moderate whats posted on here XD

[Saefinn]

The trouble seems to be on one hand you've got a limited selection of jobs people will choose for a party just because they useful enough for procs on the other you don't want Abyssea to be any easier than it already is. My suggestion is just one that people will hate because it would reduce your chances of proccing in a low man situation. If we gave, say, Quick Draw the ability to proc yellow, on top of your BLM/BRD, BLU/NIN and WHM you'll need invite a COR as well, then adding helices would mean inviting a SCH, then add ranged attacks to red and you'll be inviting a RNG alongside your WAR and NIN. As for blue, well MNK has it covered, I'm not sure if there's any blunt WS's that a MNK can't use.

So, such a solution is probably not worth it just to be more inclusive, especially as it'll probably piss a lot of people off. How do I get to play the jobs I enjoy playing? I just don't do shout parties anymore - I have occassionally gotten away with using jobs that people don't use to proc in shout parties, my general refusal to level a job because they're a 'necessity' does mean I'm at a disadvantage - except for blue procs, because I have a MNK ;) but I stick with LS and friend groups and there's a lot more flexibility there. I go SCH to heal when fighting NMs that don't need somebody with Cure V (but we have people with WHM when we need it), I've been MNK to DD(not proc), DRK, COR for buffs and its ranged attack and even lolPUP. It doesn't always matter to proc, you may have to kill the NM more times, but normally I do stuff in 3 man groups, so it's not often we're gonna have all procs covered anyway.

And if you need to do atma runs or wins, usually shout groups don't care what job you're on if you're not going to lot on anything. If you're able to help out with the heals, it's great, same if you're able to help zerg the NM after procs have been done...if you have some procs, that's an added bonus.

[Juri_Licious]

I noticed a lot of people that don't want change are Abyssea proc jobs.

I doubt SE is going to overhaul the system but they might. Regardless, I don't care how it's done.

All jobs should be able to participate in Seal parties and not just the select "chosen ones" that were blessed by Altana, aka SE.

[Kimble]

Not this crap again.

[Tamoa]

But all jobs are able to participate in seal or +2 item parties. Only downside is, your party setup won't be optimal without blm, blu, whm, brd (or blm/brd), nin or /nin. People normally want these parties to be as efficient as possible with as few people as possible. I don't see a way of improving the abyssea proc system without either a) making abyssea even easier, or b) having to go back to full alliances to make sure procs are covered. Either that, or start giving other jobs access to spells which are currently job-specific and too high lvl to access them with said job as sub.

You want the proc system "fixed" but you don't care how it's done. I honestly think that when you are making a complaint like this, you should at least have a suggestion or 2 on how to fix it.

[Mirabelle]

If you switch Abyssea to an any job can proc then speed will determine who becomes preferable. Jobs with the best tp gain, fastest casting, most instant job abilities, will be preferred. Until an intelligent proc system that will assess your parties jobs and provide a proc for each member and also provide a higher chance at a seal/item for that member if he is successful, we are stuck with there always being some job preferences.

[Neonii]

Because all we need in XI is more zerging everything into the ground.

Actually what you would see is more folks having fun on jobs they enjoy. For example, I would love to spend purposeful time in Abyssea on my smm having much more fun then whm which is a chore. As it is folks just level jobs to zerg on and use those instead of playing something they enjoy. Whats so very wrong with with the desire to really have fun using a character you like playing on a video game? I believe the main purpose of playing any game is fun and relaxing. I have always felt all jobs should have a purpose in the majority of content in a game.

Why do so many folks advocate punishing oneself on a video game by being compelled to play a job you don't enjoy as a means to an end? I understand that it is ultimately the decision of the game designers but if we advocate for this it is will just encourage them to not seek ways to involve more jobs. How come we can't at least have a balance of procs between fun and chore type jobs? That seems more reasonable to me.

Disclaimer: I believe to op is suggesting making existing procs available to to more jobs not add new procs to the game itself.

[Mirage]

Actually, I expect SE to figure out how. They're the developers.

[Tamoa]

If you switch Abyssea to an any job can proc then speed will determine who becomes preferable. Jobs with the best tp gain, fastest casting, most instant job abilities, will be preferred. Until an intelligent proc system that will assess your parties jobs and provide a proc for each member and also provide a higher chance at a seal/item for that member if he is successful, we are stuck with there always being some job preferences.

A solution like that won't make the proc system better than it is now. It'll just open up for even more soloing/duoing since you'll be guaranteed to be able to proc. Who wants to share drops if you don't need to, right?

[Sparthos]

Actually what you would see is more folks having fun on jobs they enjoy. For example, I would love to spend purposeful time in Abyssea on my smm having much more fun then whm which is a chore. As it is folks just level jobs to zerg on and use those instead of playing something they enjoy. Whats so very wrong with with the desire to really have fun using a character you like playing on a video game? I believe the main purpose of playing any game is fun and relaxing. I have always felt all jobs should have a purpose in the majority of content in a game.

Why do so many folks advocate punishing oneself on a video game by being compelled to play a job you don't enjoy as a means to an end? I understand that it is ultimately the decision of the game designers but if we advocate for this it is will just encourage them to not seek ways to involve more jobs. How come we can't at least have a balance of procs between fun and chore type jobs? That seems more reasonable to me.

Disclaimer: I believe to op is suggesting making existing procs available to to more jobs not add new procs to the game itself.

The only way to promote job variety is to create different events where different jobs shine. Abyssea currently promotes job set X because the proc system is in place, monsters are easy enough to undermine support lines and brews make anything more than a party excess baggage.

Do I like it? Not all the time. Do I see why SE created procs? Yes.

Zerging stuff into the ground is part of what set XI into a nosedive in the first place. Things like B2 that were designed to be inclusive to multiple classes were turned into mindless stun and gun fests yet it seems some haven't learned their lessons. Those who are ignorant of the past are doomed to repeat it etc etc.

I said it before and i'll say it again - if SE leaves Voidwatch at the current difficulty level, the jobs currently "shunned" in Abyssea will return to the field of play and we'll have "balance".

[Neonii]

The only way to promote job variety is to create different events where different jobs shine. Abyssea currently promotes job set X because the proc system is in place, monsters are easy enough to undermine support lines and brews make anything more than a party excess baggage.

Do I like it? Not all the time. Do I see why SE created procs? Yes.

Zerging stuff into the ground is part of what set XI into a nosedive in the first place. Things like B2 that were designed to be inclusive to multiple classes were turned into mindless stun and gun fests yet it seems some haven't learned their lessons. Those who are ignorant of the past are doomed to repeat it etc etc.

I said it before and i'll say it again - if SE leaves Voidwatch at the current difficulty level, the jobs currently "shunned" in Abyssea will return to the field of play and we'll have "balance".

I guess my first mmorpg ruined other games for me. That game in particular allowed one job per character and designed super fun content to include all the jobs. Unfortunately, for me it set the bar as to what a fun factor should be in an online game. Since you had one job per character you were free to focus on making your main great it was more quality vs. quantity. I have told myself to get over it. But I can't help but wish I could focus on a main in ffx1 and make it the job I spoil and play on a regular basis.

I love smn and find it awesome fun. I work two jobs and value my online time. I just don't have the quality time to complete several mains. Its a fact of life in ffx1 and if since I choose to play it I have accepted it. I wonder if some of the complaints I read all the time about people who don't know their job is because we don't really have a main. Well I guess you can have a main but be prepared to be shut out of content. I would love for my smn to be able to proc blue. I still don't have my smn belt after soloing that nm like 17 times. I try to get folks to help and there is always some excuse. I don't thing wanting procs on mains is unreasonable.

Just for the record I did level a whm that I am asked to play all the time. I won't even pretend I find it anywhere near as fun as smn.

One last thing If Voidwatch is the answer to the unbalanced Abyssea it needs to provide equal armor/weapons for those jobs returning to the "Field of Play".

[Alhanelem]

Zerging stuff into the ground is part of what set XI into a nosedive in the first place.Abyssea did nothing to solve that. Now it's just "wait for proc, then zerg into ground."

[Sparthos]

Abyssea did nothing to solve that. Now it's just "wait for proc, then zerg into ground."

From some of the battles ive witnessed, procs can cause wipes. See: brewed Carabosse fail.

And yes, Abyssea in its current state has become a zergfest due to the overkill on buffs but it doesn't mean SE didn't create procs to slow down the DD throw that was all the rage before Abyssea.

It's the same reason I imagine Dynamis and future content will also have procs.

[Gokku]

From some of the battles ive witnessed, procs can cause wipes. See: brewed Carabosse fail.


Failing to a level 80 abyssea mob when your 10 levels above it WITH A BREW isnt fail its a shitty player i mean christ 9999hp for 3mins and insane damage cara should be dead before it has a chance to 2 hour and even if it does 2 hour it should still be dead in 1min or less.

[Rearden]

So much wrong with that statement lol.

[Panthera]

Suggestion: get rid of procing altogether.

[Luvbunny]

Well what SE could do is the change the BLM proc spells using tier 2-4 elemental magic and tier 1-2 ga spells, and also make Scholar Helix applicable as a proc, this way you will see BLM, SCH and RDM along with Nin, War, Mnk, Thf, Whm as part of the aby party set up. Heck in that sense, Smn/Blm could also proc albeit missing a few ga spells and tier 3. Also if you pay attention, you could go where you avoid near lightsday/darksday if you don't want to bring whm to proc light. Then again you would miss out Cure 5-6. Now if SE add Cure 5 to Sch and Rdm, then those jobs would get some love back.

The current best set up of jobs work for now because they give you the most bang for your bucks. Of course the downside to this means that half of the other jobs are not seen as useful - for low group farming - but usually fine when you go with 8 people set up. You can always level those jobs - with abyssea - it is very fast to get to lvl 90.

[Volkai]

Jobs should be invited because of their strengths, not because of procs. Adding procs to jobs that dont have as many shouldn't be necessary.

This deserves to be reiterated.

[Saefinn]

The current best set up of jobs work for now because they give you the most bang for your bucks. Of course the downside to this means that half of the other jobs are not seen as useful - for low group farming - but usually fine when you go with 8 people set up. You can always level those jobs - with abyssea - it is very fast to get to lvl 90.

This is something I refuse to do. Maybe I'm just stubborn :P But then I deal with it, I think people are here to enjoy the game therefore are here to level jobs they enjoy playing. There's plenty of ways to enjoy the jobs you like, but it can be at the cost of not proccing. The best you can hope for is to be good at your favourite job and hope to get a reputation for it...90% of the time, I'm a SCH even I can't cure as well as a good WHM or cover as many procs as a Black Mage. Most people I group with have the attitude that they'd rather invite people who can play their job well rather than somebody who can hit the right procs.

[Siiri]

Most people I group with have the attitude that they'd rather invite people who can play their job well rather than somebody who can hit the right procs.

This is usually the answer if you go with friends/link shell/ people who know you. The only people who insist on the perfect "5 person" setup is those shouting in Jueno. If you go with friends there is room for a lot of variety by either taking 6 people or just plain missing 1 or 2 procs. Abyssea is so easy who cares really. I organize all the statics in my linkshell and I often have people coming "off jobs" like drk for example and all we lose is raiden thrust on red procs compared to war. (Staff as well, but I am usually white mage with capped staff skill and I throw on VV atma)

From the day pickups started there has always been the "most perfect setup" that the shouters only wanted. Who can forget the 4 sam, rdm bard Nyzul boss run shouts, or colibri merit parties where at least 1/2 the jobs were not wanted. If they change the system it will just be a new 5 or 6 jobs shouted for. Sorry that the red mage types cannot believe they are not the no. 1 job in one event now, but those are the breaks. In a game with 20 jobs those shouting for randoms will always have a preference.

[Neonii]

Quantity, quantity, folks not quality, Knowing a job you enjoy and play well that comes in second. Once I understood this I was much better off. So I guess the summary would be level the chore jobs (mine is whm) you are going to need it if you want to play.

[Alhanelem]

From some of the battles ive witnessed, procs can cause wipes. See: brewed Carabosse fail.

And yes, Abyssea in its current state has become a zergfest due to the overkill on buffs but it doesn't mean SE didn't create procs to slow down the DD throw that was all the rage before Abyssea.

It's the same reason I imagine Dynamis and future content will also have procs.
um... Dynamis already has procs.


You can always level those jobs - with abyssea - it is very fast to get to lvl 90. Just because jobs can be easily leveled, does not mean people want to play those jobs and find them fun.

Some people seem to forget this is a game we're playing, and we want it to be enjoyable.

[Tamoa]

I must be wired differently from the rest of the playerbase. Because I actually enjoy whm. And when friends and ls members want me to come whm to events, I know it's because they trust me to play the job to the best of my ability. They think I do a good job as whm and knowing that makes me happy and I do my very best to not let them down. I have more than one empyrean weapon and I can proc any red, yellow or blue in abyssea, but I still end up as whm most of the time, and that's fine. I'm secretly a little bit proud that my friends think I'm a good whm. So yeah, guess I'm weird eh? :/

Edit: kinda posted this before I finished lol.
Anyway, what I meant to say is nobody is forcing anyone to level a job they don't like. But for one - how do you know you won't like it until you've tried it? Being lvl 20 whm in a Qufim level sync party isn't quite the same as duoing Isgebind war/sam and whm. As an example. I managed to get blm to lvl 57 well before abyssea was introduced. But I hated it... However, I leeched to around 75 and then joined normal abyssea exp parties. And 90 blm is fun - in Abyssea at least!

Also, those that are so against lvling and playing a job you don't like (or think you don't like) - wouldn't you lvl that job to help out your ls/lowman group to be more efficient?

[Neonii]

I must be wired differently from the rest of the playerbase. Because I actually enjoy whm. And when friends and ls members want me to come whm to events, I know it's because they trust me to play the job to the best of my ability. They think I do a good job as whm and knowing that makes me happy and I do my very best to not let them down. I have more than one empyrean weapon and I can proc any red, yellow or blue in abyssea, but I still end up as whm most of the time, and that's fine. I'm secretly a little bit proud that my friends think I'm a good whm. So yeah, guess I'm weird eh? :/

Edit: kinda posted this before I finished lol.
Anyway, what I meant to say is nobody is forcing anyone to level a job they don't like. But for one - how do you know you won't like it until you've tried it? Being lvl 20 whm in a Qufim level sync party isn't quite the same as duoing Isgebind war/sam and whm. As an example. I managed to get blm to lvl 57 well before abyssea was introduced. But I hated it... However, I leeched to around 75 and then joined normal abyssea exp parties. And 90 blm is fun - in Abyssea at least!

Also, those that are so against lvling and playing a job you don't like (or think you don't like) - wouldn't you lvl that job to help out your ls/lowman group to be more efficient?

I'm really happy for you that you get to play the game on a job that you enjoy that's what games are supposed to be about. Now to answer your question for me in particular it's not so much that i'm against leveling an alternate job to play and I have. But it's kinda like second best. If I go for my favorite ice cream and the shop is out sure i'll try another flavor but its not the same. Why settle for second best when you could do something you really love? I like to focus on and perfect a main and that's kinda hard when that main is smn without reliable procs. Plus working two jobs in rl it's hard to spread my time/focus among several mains and any one of them be outstanding.

[Tamoa]

I'm really happy for you that you get to play the game on a job that you enjoy that's what games are supposed to be about. Now to answer your question for me in particular it's not so much that i'm against leveling an alternate job to play and I have. But it's kinda like second best. If I go for my favorite ice cream and the shop is out sure i'll try another flavor but its not the same. Why settle for second best when you could do something you really love? I like to focus on and perfect a main and that's kinda hard when that main is smn without reliable procs. Plus working two jobs in rl it's hard to spread my time/focus among several mains and any one of them be outstanding.

Don't get me wrong, I like whm and I have no problem going whm to events - however I like my war, sam and nin more! lol

[Solonuke]

I can see where they were going with the proc system since every job has access to something that can help out on drop rates. Thanks to the proc system and TH, I'm playing jobs such as WAR and WHM instead of DNC DRK SAM and RDM. Mobs you want to kill with blue proc is often reserved to 22:00 to 06:00 since MNK gets 14/15 blunt procs while WHM can cover the last one.

I like Abyssea due to its casual friendliness where you don't need an army to get stuff done, it's a relief from the old days that involved long lines for special items and most of the drama around that seems to be gone. For me Voidwatch is a step backwards as it uses old zones, same models and two linkshells where one of them isn't interested at all while the other one never goes when I'm on. Whether or not the boss fights are challenging or not is irrelevant for me as its content I really won't see much of. I'm somewhat dreading the thought of Voidwatch becoming popular and finding help to get all 3 of the tier 4 NMs killed just so I can progress to relevant monsters and items.

So for the time being I'm stuck with Abyssea and the proc system really favors certain jobs over others.

[Soulrunner]

This is a really bad idea, it's already hard enough to convince 4 people to come out and cover yellow much worse to get a red team and a blue team. Basically the more people involved in most abyssean fights the longer and worse off the fight is. But I agree only a few classes of use, my ls doesn't even bring Rdm to events anymore. We don't have a bard in the ls someone can sub bard and do everything we need a bard to do. A fix is not required to remedy this, an expansion is.

[Mirage]

Well, what I think is the worst about these procs is that there is always one single spell that is the right proc (in each category). What if several spells could be potential proccers on the same mob, and what if even skillchains could be part of these? I think it would be better if instead of a blm/brd being almost required to cover a decent amount of procs is pretty ridiculous. What if the "proccing spells" were changed to be lower level ones, so that they could be gotten from subs more easily?

Imagine an abyssea where you could come with a sam/war, drk/nin, and and like rdm/brd and still cover 80% of possible grellows, but at the same time, whm, blu/sch and war/nin would also cover about the same amount of procs?.

Now don't ask me to balance it all, i can't do all of SEs work after all. They should be able to work out some way to let more job combinations cover a larger amount of procs, without making the current most desired jobs even more desired.

[Mirabelle]

A solution like that won't make the proc system better than it is now. It'll just open up for even more soloing/duoing since you'll be guaranteed to be able to proc. Who wants to share drops if you don't need to, right?

Because in my system, the more players, the more drops. So who wants to kill in 20 min solo what you can kill in a couple min with a 6 man party and get 6X the drops.

[MojoJojo]

I've bounced around between large egls abyssea farms and low-manning stuff with friends. Even with the larger group where procs are #1 there's still room for the other jobs. As mentioned before, if the person is good at their job (cor, sch,drg, smn, etc) they're still contributing greatly to the group, and hopefully will be welcomed. Every job offers a lot of goodies.

And low-manning, sure there are jobs more smiled upon, but doing that with friends, hopefully they're more open to FUN. Hopefully everyone can be flexible.

Lastly, i don't have a helluvalot of friends in this game, but i still don't rely on /sh jeuno pt's to accomplish anything. If some stranger is giving you grief over your job selection.....%^&* him.

[Juri_Licious]

Just because jobs can be easily leveled, does not mean people want to play those jobs and find them fun.

Some people seem to forget this is a game we're playing, and we want it to be enjoyable.
Thank you, this is exactly the thing here.

It's like what's the point in playing my job if I have to play other jobs to get my specific job equipment?
That's just dumb to me, no matter how I look at it.

It's also like, you pick a job at the start because you like it. Why should I be force to play something I don't like?

[hiko]

Name one time you haven't seen WAR BLU WHM BLM THF NIN or gtfo in a Jueno shout?

any shoot for BLU drop

also about proc job:

@95 /nin(sam) can get ei(koki) with cooking katana(wooden katana),merit,hachimaki, ring
@99 /nin get koki with merits/ F.helm+1/torque/ ring/bushi giving war/nin ALL red

[Neonii]

Thank you, this is exactly the thing here.

It's like what's the point in playing my job if I have to play other jobs to get my specific job equipment?
That's just dumb to me, no matter how I look at it.

It's also like, you pick a job at the start because you like it. Why should I be force to play something I don't like?

I agree with this especially for casual players with limited play time. When I started playing ffx1 around two years ago I spent over a year leveling smn before I even realized it didn't offer much for the end game. My focus was mostly on xp expecting wonderful fun later after putting so much investment into my character (my dues). I can say that being forced to level alternative jobs detracts from the experience of having a main to focus your energy on. Also, it detracts from learning a job like the back of one's hand.

It comes down to if a person is motivated to play to be efficient or to have fun (can do both). I tend to favor fun but game favors efficiency. The fun orientated folks deserve a few breaks also namely the ability to proc on favorite jobs. I'd venture to guess that efficiency is fun for some folks, but the game should accommodate both. Shutting the fun jobs out of Abyssea in favor of Voidwatch don't count because imo Abyssea is very significant content to be left of of.

[scaevola]

Come on, guys. You've been on notice that WAR and BLM are really useful for proccing stuff in Abyssea for over a year now. It's old news, just like Abyssea itself. Surely you've had the opportunity in that time to level such a job.

Yes, the distribution of Abyssea procs is a little....weird, maybe, but after a year of running poor Chloris into the ground does anybody really want to set about reinventing the wheel and making this more complicated than it needs to be?

I'm not unsympathetic, but come on.

Really.


Well, what I think is the worst about these procs is that there is always one single spell that is the right proc (in each category). What if several spells could be potential proccers on the same mob, and what if even skillchains could be part of these?

This'd be better, though I would prefer to keep the current spread of procs and just have two potential weaknesses.

[Juri_Licious]

Come on, guys. You've been on notice that WAR and BLM are really useful for proccing stuff in Abyssea for over a year now. It's old news, just like Abyssea itself. Surely you've had the opportunity in that time to level such a job.
Just saying, not everyone has been playing over a year. And not everyone has the same resources, know how, classes or team for these said seals.

[scaevola]

Everybody playing right now has been playing over a year. Maybe one or two guys came out of the wordwork and were all HEY WHATS UP IN THIS EIGHT-YEAR-OLD GAME I ONLY JUST NOW DECIDED TO PLAY AND SUBSEQUENTLY GET IN TO END GAME AND NOT JUST QUIT AFTER A WEEK AFTER BEING COMPLETELY ALIENATED BY THIS STONE AGE INTERFACE AND CONTROL SCHEME but they are the outliers.

Sorry; don't kid yourself. If World of Warcraft is not attracting new players, I find it hard to believe that a game with 0 (zero) advertising budget is raking them in.

[svengalis]

The problem with your suggestion is NEEDING certain jobs to process. Its better the way it is now cause you don't NEED certain jobs. I don't know how many times I logged off or didn't do certain things pre abyssea because you needed certain jobs to do things. I don't know why you are complaining TC if you don't have one of the jobs you listed that is fail.

[Juri_Licious]

Everybody playing right now has been playing over a year. Maybe one or two guys came out of the wordwork and were all HEY WHATS UP IN THIS EIGHT-YEAR-OLD GAME I ONLY JUST NOW DECIDED TO PLAY AND SUBSEQUENTLY GET IN TO END GAME AND NOT JUST QUIT AFTER A WEEK AFTER BEING COMPLETELY ALIENATED BY THIS STONE AGE INTERFACE AND CONTROL SCHEME but they are the outliers.

Sorry; don't kid yourself. If World of Warcraft is not attracting new players, I find it hard to believe that a game with 0 (zero) advertising budget is raking them in.

Yeah uh, tell that to my friend who's been playing since April. I see a lot of new players all the time maybe not on "Cerberus" but definitely on Asura.

[svengalis]

The way they distributed certain procs was very unbalanced and not well thought out.
Leaving jobs like BLM WAR and WHm being highly sought after for having a majority of the exclusive spells/WS available to them while jobs like RDM SCH DRG which only have a few being left to the side. Maybe they can make it so that weaknesses cycle in real time so when day changes, weakness changes while engaged not being set in stone at the time of the pull. At the same time they can remove the multiple procing aspect so you don't reproc weakness when the day changes. This lets all jobs be useful to an extent and if you can't find a certain proc, just wait till day change for weaknesses to cycle. Or even better make them cycle every 5-6 game hours if it hasnt' been proc'd yet.

Actually it was thought out right. It now means you don't NEED 18 people to kill anything anymore anymore. I'm loving this game right now.

[Ophannus]

No but you definitely need BLM,BRD,BLU,WHM if you want empryean armor. Abyssea brought back the mage-princcess mentality again. 2003-2006= "No [insert BLM,BRD,WHM,RDM]? No party." You literally could not exp without a BLM cuz everyone skillchained and you needed a RDM or BRD for refresh. 2006/2007 you needed a RDM for healing in a merit pt and a BRD for melees, BLM fell out of favor cuz everything in TOAU resisted magic badly and melee were desired. Now abyssea brought back "Nah we don't need a DRG or DRK or SAM we need BLM, if we cant get a BLM might as well break"

I'm mostly talking about Yellow procs. Multiple jobs can use many of the red procs as well as blue procs but Yellow procs are job specific or semi job specific. Blue procs change with game time so you can control which time you pop to adjust to which jobs you have. Red proc is easy as NIN or WAR can use any of them mostly. Yellow strictly requires AT LEAST a BLM/BRD, WHM, BLU and a NIN minimum.(NIN main because impossible to land Kurayami as /NIN).

[SpankWustler]

No but you definitely need BLM,BRD,BLU,WHM if you want empryean armor. Abyssea brought back the mage-princcess mentality again. 2003-2006= "No [insert BLM,BRD,WHM,RDM]? No party." You literally could not exp without a BLM cuz everyone skillchained and you needed a RDM or BRD for refresh. 2006/2007 you needed a RDM for healing in a merit pt and a BRD for melees, BLM fell out of favor cuz everything in TOAU resisted magic badly and melee were desired. Now abyssea brought back "Nah we don't need a DRG or DRK or SAM we need BLM, if we cant get a BLM might as well break"

I'm mostly talking about Yellow procs. Multiple jobs can use many of the red procs as well as blue procs but Yellow procs are job specific or semi job specific. Blue procs change with game time so you can control which time you pop to adjust to which jobs you have. Red proc is easy as NIN or WAR can use any of them mostly. Yellow strictly requires AT LEAST a BLM/BRD, WHM, BLU and a NIN minimum.(NIN main because impossible to land Kurayami as /NIN).

If only it weren't for those meddling procs, you could have made a party with no healing magic and gotten away with it!

You really don't need to bring all of that stuff and get yellow on every single monster since you can always kill more monsters. If you're talking pure efficiency, it's actually better to cut out the Blue Mage and Nina (assuming that results in two more people who want seals). The only "extraneous" job that you're generally taking along is Black Mage, really.

[Glamdring]

I'm not sure how they'd do it but I think it would be a lot more fun for Abyssea if every class could trigger procs instead of a select few.

More classes would be played which is always a good thing.

-Edit-

I don't mean every single class gets every single proc that's in the game.

it's been suggested before in multiple threads and the answer from most always seems to be "level on of the wanted jobs"... from the players. SE has never made so much as a peep about this that I can recall. I believe they have a vested interest in making Abyssea largely exclusive to a few jobs (at least for gear farming) but I can't think what that interest might be. However, if you made other jobs able to proc !! then players of those other jobs would have to be allowed in so you could cover those procs, and that wouldn't be good for those players with a vested interest in monopolizing content. They would have to share, allow other players to benefit from the contributions they make to parties and such. The whole idea is contrary to the accepted end-game dynamic as it has stood for years. Seriously, if you want to bring your little alliance along so that other players have a chance at doing end-game content and getting the rewards from it wait until after 4 a.m. EST so you don't interfere with other players and you damn well better be done before they get back on at about 8:30 a.m. EST.

Seriously, I'm on board with you, but it would probably be to late. We're getting close to the next level cap increase and there's one more after that. If the pattern holds true there will be all new gear released with it that will make the stuff you are asking to get obsolete (probably gained through VNM and then augmented via a combo of Magian trials and that synergy system they seem determined to ram down our throats). The time for the outcry (and a resulting action by SE) was before the release of Heroes, not today. Anyone not playing war, blm, whm, blue or nin (and one with a /brd) can prolly just stand back and hope for a pity party spot from a good friend as far as procs go, that's the established Aby party dynamic after over a year. Oh sure, a monk, thief or a dancer might get a spot to round out a 6th (and to tank while those on the fortunate 5 go AFK to watch TV), but the rest... nah.

[Alhanelem]

It's really mostly a coincidence that the current bandwagon jobs coincide with the ones with the most procs. the jobs named for procing in abyssea are more or less the most popular for anything. This is part of why adding more procs to other jobs won't accomplish much. For instance MNK is already popular. it would still be used even if it didn't have access to key procs.

[hiko]

Yellow strictly requires AT LEAST a BLM/BRD, WHM, BLU and a NIN minimum.(NIN main because impossible to land Kurayami as /NIN).
from earthday to iceday (half the week) you cover all proc with blu/nin+blm/brd,

[Vortex]

from earthday to iceday (half the week) you cover all proc with blu/nin+blm/brd,

and during lightsday/darksday you have a high chance to cover procs with just a whm/blm+nin infact if it's lightsday proc blm is pretty much useless unless they are subed whm

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

It's really mostly a coincidence that the current bandwagon jobs coincide with the ones with the most procs.

For some jobs it is, for others it isn't. NIN & WHM can duo most NMs, so after that, you're either adding procs, you're adding TH, or you're adding nothing. And who wants to take along the jobs that add nothing?

* NIN is the only real tank right now. On weak enough mobs you can get away with things like THF or DNC and just have everyone else hold back, or MNK and spam cure VI, but it's better to have a NIN. So they don't depend on procs to be wanted (but, ironically, have a quite good selection anyway).

* Healers other than WHM can't heal for enough to be useful. So WHM is always necessary.

* If people want treasure then they want Treasure Hunter and there's only one job that's really good at it. So THF doesn't rely on its procs to be wanted.

* More damage isn't that useful in general. Killing faster is of little use outside of timed zones like Dynamis or Nyzul, and anyway, multiple DDs on a mob means more TP moves which makes your chances of winning the fight worse, not better (and also interferes with proc timing). Even low-TP-granting nukes would be of little significance if BLM didn't also have a ton of procs (as you can see from the desirability of other nuking jobs -- SCH can still nuke for almost as much damage as BLM, but because their procs are inferior, nobody wants them). The number of NMs you can kill is equal to the number of NMs you can pop, and damage contributes little or nothing to that. And the more favored jobs probably already include 3 DDs (NIN or other DD/tank, THF, BLM), so how much can a DRG, DRK, SAM, RNG, etc. really add?

* Buff jobs are irrelevant because atmas are much stronger. BRD is tolerated for its procs, but COR is completely unwanted because of this.

* What am I leaving out? Oh yeah, the job designed as a tank that can't tank anymore, PLD. Being designed to trade off damage for toughness is horribly crippling when damage becomes the only way to get or hold hate anymore. (Actually, it's pretty bad in general when you have to compete with a job that takes less damage while dealing more, but PLDs somehow managed to put up with that from RotZ through WotG. It was Abyssea that really crushed the job beyond recognition.) They contribute nothing of significance and nobody wants them.

For the clearest example of how procs rule, look at WAR. Do you want WAR for seals or +2 items? No, why would you? NIN WHM BLM THF, maybe BLU or BRD. Do you want WAR for key items that rely on red proc? Hell yeah. WAR does the same amount of damage either way, but depending on whether its procing ability is godly (red) or nonexistent (yellow), its desirability is hugely different.

P.S. "Just level one of the good jobs" is not a solution to job balance problems. It's more of a concession that they're so severe no amount of player effort can overcome them.

[Tamoa]

"Nin is the only real tank right now."

I'm sorry, but what?

A mnk can tank just as good. /war or /nin, doesn't matter much, it all depends on the kind of nm you are fighting (if you need to backtank it sometimes etc).

War can also tank just fine. More dependant on a healer, but it can outDD most other jobs and hold hate just fine = i.e. war can tank.

Examples? Duoing Orthrus with a friend - he's mnk/war, I'm whm. Piece of cake. The most dangerous move Orthrus does, Acheron's Flame, will kill a nin just as easily as a mnk. Actually, it's likely to kill a nin faster than a mnk or a war. Also - duoing Isgebind with a friend - he's war/sam, I'm whm. A lot more efficient than nin + whm simply because war kills it much faster.

I'd go as far as saying mnk and war are better tanks than nin for some of the harder nms (btw not saying Orthrus is hard!).

[Mirage]

Agree with the post above. (by Karinya_of_Carbuncle)

Also, I've been thinking more about the idea i had earlier, and hopefully managed to refine it a bit.

Under the assumption that procs are here to stay, and will never go away no matter what people say, I think the solution to some, but not all of the problems of job inferiority because of lack of procs is to rebalance it so that "almost" any combination of three players with main and subjobs that do not overlap would get an amount of procs that are within 10% of each others.

Instead of the black magic procs being Tier 3, 4 -aga3 and AM, two of which *only* blm gets, I would suggesst that -aga 3s were dropped in favor of tier 2 nukes. If you then added one sch proc of each element (helices, i guess?), you'd put SCH and BLM on nearly equal grounds when it comes to black magic proccing. Of course, BLM has another advantage, which is elemental seal to proc with underskilled brd songs (or ninjutsu, lol) without as many resists, but on the other hand SCH can also heal a bit better than BLM (I think, anyway, i don't have either of those leveled to 90).

I would also be in favor of adding elemental shots from cor to yellow procs, as well as skillchains that consisted of a single element. This probably makes it sound like it would require a lot more different jobs to cover the maximum amount of procs, but I have another idea which "should" solve this. There should be two (or more, dunno) possible yellow procs for each NM, and they would be randomly chosen in a manner something like this: Intially, select two random yellow procs based on the normal day limitations we're used to, but if one of them ends up being a spell that is only available when maining a job (such as flare on blm), then the other proc must be one that is available when subbing a job (such as fire 2 or fire shot), or it could also end up being a Lv1 skillchain of the appropriate element.

I am hoping for such a system to be able to let many nonstandard party setups get something around a 75-90% ability to perform yellows, as long as a bit of thought is put into selecting subjobs. Of course, when a yellow proc is successful, the other possible proc for that enemy would no longer be appliciable, to avoid accidental double-procs.

If someone sees some glaring problems with this sort of system, please point them out so I can try to address them, or give some suggestions on how to fix them yourself. The idea behind it is to make the difference between the absolutely totally awesomest party setup, and the rest of the possible party setups to be lessened to such a degree that it doesn't feel like a waste to go abyssea farming without a blm/brd.

[Kensagaku]

Before I start my piece, I won't lie - I have BLM, NIN, MNK, BLU, and BRD all leveled. I've got "desirable" jobs leveled, so it may seem like I'm biased. And maybe I am a little biased, it's possible. That's just my disclaimer here.

For seal farming? Heck yeah I'm going to go for the "desired" jobs. I prefer to seal hunt with NIN/BLM/WHM, and then the last person is a THF or BLU. I rarely go for more than 4 people, because if I assign one person to a seal, that minimizes the number of seals required. If I have two people on a seal, and let's say it's a rare one, then I have to stick around longer. I hate being rude and leaving people without completing their seal sets unless a mob is being particularly annoying (looking at you, Ironclad Smiter), and so adding more unnecessary people means I have to waste more of my time to help finish. Sure, I could just be rude and say "welp, I'm done let's go" but that's just not me.

For larger events? You'd be surprised. I like to get my "necessary" jobs, of course, like NIN/WAR/THF/WHM for Emp item farming, maybe a BLM if people still need +2 items. Besides that, however, I generally pick people for their skill at a job. One of our members got to come on COR because we were set for Sobek, and honestly he was a huge asset. Wildfire was a good 4-5k per shot, Tactician's Roll for 5 TP/tick was amazing (especially with me on BRD, I could fire off staff procs after singing), and overall his utility was hard to argue. Our shell leader often comes on MNK because he's amazing, despite us rarely going for blue procs.

Sure, some of my jobs get put on the backburner - SAM, COR, and SMN don't get much use - but other jobs that seem "unpopular" like my RDM do fine. For example I'll duo Dynamis with RDM/DNC + THF/NIN and bring in a good 2M worth of currency a day, or trio RDM/SCH + THF/NIN + NIN/DNC for more. BST? Well that works well solo anyway. It's true that some jobs have situational niches now, but that doesn't mean that they'll be useless forever.

Jobs have always been in trends; look at ToAU. SAM, DRG, and occasionally WAR were the jobs desired. They had the greatest damage output at the time, and RDM was the king of healing due to having an easily replenishable MP pool. BRDs were required for just about every party. In Dynamis you'd have a few BLMs because they were skilled at crowd control, and during endgame, you'd have a PLD tank. NIN tanks were rare, but they were there occasionally. I rarely remember seeing MNKs in endgame, honestly, and if you were a BLU (I know I was during those days!) then the only thing you were brought along for was SATA Cannonball.

The only real problem I can see is the limitation on EG activity. To most people, this is Abyssea-only, which limits the range of potentially necessary jobs. Some people move to Voidwatch, and can use a broader range (I get to go SMN for it, it's fun!). But for the most part, we don't have 3-5 different types of EG anymore (Sea, Sky, Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, etc) where different combinations of jobs are useful. We have ONE (two if you're lucky enough to have a group to do VW with) endgame event, which cuts down that list drastically.

My only suggestion to SE is to open up more events when we hit 99, so we can get out of the current mindset we have. Right now we're in a transition phase, so it's no wonder that we're limited. But if this trend continues to 99, then yes, there is a problem.

[SpankWustler]

* NIN is the only real tank right now. On weak enough mobs you can get away with things like THF or DNC and just have everyone else hold back, or MNK and spam cure VI, but it's better to have a NIN. So they don't depend on procs to be wanted (but, ironically, have a quite good selection anyway).

Pretty much any melee job does okay if you use Cure V instead of Cure VI.

[Olor]

Everybody playing right now has been playing over a year. Maybe one or two guys came out of the wordwork and were all HEY WHATS UP IN THIS EIGHT-YEAR-OLD GAME I ONLY JUST NOW DECIDED TO PLAY AND SUBSEQUENTLY GET IN TO END GAME AND NOT JUST QUIT AFTER A WEEK AFTER BEING COMPLETELY ALIENATED BY THIS STONE AGE INTERFACE AND CONTROL SCHEME but they are the outliers.

Sorry; don't kid yourself. If World of Warcraft is not attracting new players, I find it hard to believe that a game with 0 (zero) advertising budget is raking them in.

Er, I just started a new character about 6 months ago...

[Mirage]

I know one dude who recently restarted after a 5 year break (new character, lost old), and one dude who started for the first time a few weeks ago, so they definitely exist. :p

[Rezeak]

Could write a long post but imma just say it's fine as it is thx as many pple have already explained.

PS i go SCH DRK COR to tons of abyssea events all of which aren't on ur list of the best stagger jobs but then it's more to do with if your with a group of people that know what u can do you can pretty much play anything within reason.

Also i've tanked stuff on DRK/MNK that NINs would just die on by stack hp/DMG-% gear ^^

[brayen]

(cant say i read everything but...)

I cant stand the proc system as is. The idea is nice but you end up turned around proc'ing stuff to death with dmg 1 weapons is by far the most annoying thing ever. Voidwatch barely helped the situation since now you have even more outlandish proc. In all cases it basically turns any good gear and weaponskills virtually worthless. Game went from best dmg/support to most procs/cure5 and 6.
Honestly hoping the game will see more opportunity to put our actual power to use. I miss being able to test how strong me and my friends have gotten, instead its turned to who can come proc this and that.

[Neonii]

I can only speak for myself, my main job being shut out of content (ex, no procs in Abyssea), leads to having to find reasons to log on. I have limited online time and don't want to spend it leveling and gearing up whatever job is the flavor of the moment. My leisure time is valuable and I would like have fun online. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to really understand and play main job well. Did I get any return for my year plus investment? Not really I was informed I should go level another job.

[Richie]

I'd like a way to reset the mob's weaknesses during combat. They should add a !! proc to level one skill chains that reset the monster's weaknesses. The draw back is it would wipe any !! you have triggered on the mob. Any combination of 2 dd and 2 mages are generally able to make most level one SCs and at least a third of any procs. I think this would be a smart way to make abyssea more flexible, without decreasing the difficulty.

This would also require people to learn about the basic skill chain chart and just be generally more knowledgeable about the game. God knows I still know the affinity for almost all WS from ballista 3 years ago.