Maat 2.0

[Gokku]

I really hope SE will entertain this idea. Id love for the 95-99 Genkai to be another Maat fight , but not in the same vien as 70 level fight. I want a Maat fight so brutal most relic / empy / mythic players lose. A fight that requires players to know there job and be good at there job and that has to be completed on each job a player wants to level to 99. Why? im sick of seeing the mass of horrid players running around at the current cap they have made the game so easy that its become a problem with player quality. There used to be a feeling of accomplishment at once time when it came to maat , horror story's of how grandpa packed fudge day in and day out and shouts of joy abounded upon his defeat.

I'd also settle for something along the lines of a King of the Hill style Genkai , were your forced to Fight the copy of the last player to beat said battle. it could reset every week with the severs. id love to see someone zone in and a Empy player loads up and just wrecks havok for a week as other players try to best him.

[Panthera]

More than that, there should be a Maat's Cap 2.0.

To get this, one should have to get every job to 99, and beat Maat on all 20 jobs.

[Ank]

I was always jealous that the aht urghan and wings jobs got job specific quests for their 75 cap, I'd love to fight ol' drunken Oggbi.

Don't rightly care about trying to restrict people for ones own pleasure though.

[Seriha]

Don't rightly care about trying to restrict people for ones own pleasure though.

Which is pretty much why the idea shouldn't come to be.

I'm for more stylized job quests, which as a result could yield new spells or JAs, sure, but content with an important purpose to player growth should not be impossible to all but a select few.

[Tohihroyu]

But what about Non Maat jobs? I would imagine Blu G5 2.0 to be a horror story (Especially if he gets Unbridled knowledge AND gets Cerb's Gate of Hades among other ToAU HNM/ZNM spells)

Also what about Maat's rival/friend? I thought for 99 we would have to fight him instead... or both!

[Gokku]

I was always jealous that the aht urghan and wings jobs got job specific quests for their 75 cap, I'd love to fight ol' drunken Oggbi.

Don't rightly care about trying to restrict people for ones own pleasure though.

if it forces people to actually learn to play there jobs and gear semi decently ill take that i can get.

[Ank]

I like to think that I gear and play my jobs better than what an arbitrarily difficult nm would teach me. But thanks, sensei.

[Economizer]

if it forces people to actually learn to play there jobs and gear semi decently ill take that i can get.

There are jobs with multiple roles. For example, should a uncap fight for White Mage focus on the White Mage healing? Casting Divine Spells? Beating up Maat with the best club proficiency in the game?

Making a very hard version of Maat (who, lets be honest, isn't your job, he is a freaking Monk subbing your job, the cheating jerk) isn't my ideal fight to uncap to 99. Individualized fights would be my preference, and they shouldn't be horrifically hard, but they should have the same difficulty for each job, so that a Warrior couldn't have an easier time then a Red Mage.

I would also like to see individual uncap fights that only uncap for your job that you won with. The fights don't have to be that hard, but making it just hard enough that someone can't just win the fight for their White Mage dual box mule would make the day of every real White Mage ever. It would also be a boon if people couldn't just burn their jobs to 99 by beating a fight on one job, but instead had to win for every job they take to 99. A bit of an annoyance, but definitely a proposal I think that could work.

[Leonlionheart]

There are strategies to beat all fights, even if it is incredibly hard people would just learn a way around it.

It'd probably just come down to who is the most prepared, blink, stoneskin, reraise items, tp items beforehand and during, MP/HP pots, poison pots etc.

Once the strategy is known, it's just a matter of time before average joe can beat it.

[svengalis]

I guess you never fought matt redmage pre nerf. I litterally was about to quit because I could not beat him. I had asked multiple people before I found someone to do it for me.

[Economizer]

Once the strategy is known, it's just a matter of time before average joe can beat it.

One suggestion I can think of would be to require having some skills above a certain number to enter a fight. For most melee jobs, a bunch of skill in a weapon or two, and maybe a defensive skill, for White Mage, healing Magic, divine Magic, and club, for Red Mage, enfeebling magic and enhancing magic, and either sword or dagger... although certain jobs might be hurt by this... like Summoner.

Thoughts? Is this a good idea or a horrible one?

[Modoru]

I find that to be somewhat selfish, at best. Basically, what you're requesting, is a genkai that's unnecessarily hard and requires people to waste countless hours getting the best gear, just to get a level cap raise.

I sympathize with the "knowing your job" sense, but making things hard to a ridiculous level seems... well, unnecessary, as I said. Sure, getting good gear and such is overall favorable, but expecting people with relic/myth/emp items to fail, when they're ideally the 'cream of the crop' as far as most weapons go...

Yeah, no. I just don't think it's a generally good idea. Sorry.

[Nefertiri]

I still say SCH G5 is harder than RDM, but less heard about because people who level SCH as their first job are probably rare. Anyway...

I had always thought the Genkais, especially in later years, were a bit off. Not talking about the lazily-made newer ones (lol fetch moar kindred crests and yer done) which broke our limits from 75-90, as that's a different discussion.

Genkai 5 specifically was meant to be a challenge to truly topple your limits, many jobs had it rougher than others but overall it was good to surpass our elderly mentor.

I have to ask, though...why not add more flavor to G5 a bit? Any newer class that came after Aht Urghan expansion got an awesome storyline combined with the power to challenge a highly relevant NPC of their job instead of the same old man. What the heck?! The 15 original jobs got jipped! (I don't mean disrespect to Maat of course...)

How about this instead, create new G5 battles for older jobs. MNK fight Oggbi or w/e, BLM fights either Ajido-Marujido or Shantotto, THF fights Nanaa Mihgo, RDM fights Rainemard and so on and so forth. However, this wouldn't mean seeing the end of Maat...as after clearing G5 the first time (which also nets us progress toward Maat's Cap for that job) we'd be able to challenge either our questline NPC again or Maat himself. Would choose Maat if still going after Maat's Cap. That's my idea on G5 "refinements"!

Now for our still unknown Genkai 10, which will raise us to our ultimate limit of 99 someday. I'd like an absolute challenge for this...something fresh. I say we fight...ourselves. A perfect copy of ourselves, as beefed up as we are. Our clones wouldn't be mentally retarded like Seed Thralls or Vampyr's puppet clones, or the
, they'd have access to all our equipment, spells and abilities, and they'd use them wisely, attempting to stun us when we're casting and Flash us when we have TP - stuff like that! To make it especially fun...make it so if we change equipment during the battle, so do they, so our target lock would be lost and we'd be forced to sheathe our weapon, nyehehehe.

...Oh c'mon don't gimme that look, 90% of the game depends on gear swaps, it'd be refreshing to have a battle without em for a change.

I sure would like something epic like that for Genkai 10 though...

[Leonlionheart]

One suggestion I can think of would be to require having some skills above a certain number to enter a fight. For most melee jobs, a bunch of skill in a weapon or two, and maybe a defensive skill, for White Mage, healing Magic, divine Magic, and club, for Red Mage, enfeebling magic and enhancing magic, and either sword or dagger... although certain jobs might be hurt by this... like Summoner.

Thoughts? Is this a good idea or a horrible one?

Well it's not a bad idea, but on the other hand you could just have that involved in the fight. Let's say for WAR fight he has a certain amount of evasion that you would need capped skill/accuracy food+gear to cap accuracy on Great Axe. Then at some points in the fight he can become immune to GA, forcing you to change weapons to Axe, but his evasion lowers a bit.

Having it as a requirement to enter is kind of silly though, people should learn: If you can't be bothered to cap skills, don't expect to get far.

[Economizer]

It would help if any White Mage skill beyond Enhancing Magic actually did anything major in party situations.

The proc system forcing White Mages everywhere to level club at the least (or club and staff if you really want to be useful) helped somewhat, but it doesn't help that healing magic is only marginally impacted by having no skill at all.

[Gokku]

with the text from he next genkai already out "10 merits 2 unknown items* and the 2 unknown items looking to come from some sort of synergy mini game. i really feel like threes no challenge at all atm.

[Xellith]

Leveling up isnt suppost to be the challenge. Mastering your skills is.

EXP doesnt = talent.

People used to exp back in the day for 5k an hour and still sucked. Some people will always suck even if they play the job all the time and some will kick ass. Its how the world works. Its why there are linkshells. So you can pick and choose who you play with.

If you are upset that some level 90 drk doesnt have great sword skill then fine. Be upset. Just dont play with him and dont complain to us.

Jeeze. What he does with his 13$ a month is their own business. You do NOT have to play with them. Ive had people be morons in parties giving me the "its my 13$ a month" argument. You know what I did? I either kicked them and got someone better or I left. Learn to do the same.

once again. Exp does not equal skill. Skill is something you either have or you do not. Its very hard to learn it.

Point is this. Don't complain. The original maat fights were never about skill. They were about whether he used asuran fists on your face 10 times in a row for no reason other than he could.

Took me 7 attempts to beat him on black mage. Why? After every nuke he would run over to me and asuran fists me killing me in about 5 seconds. The final time he stood there and tried casting against me instead. Gave me the time I needed to do what I had planned the last few attempts.

Every maat fight was just as annoying and I either won or lost. Skill didnt really play a part. Random number generator did. Maat version 2.0?

PUUULEASE. That isnt going to make a blind bit of difference. Thats just going to stop players whether they are good or bad from progressing. This idea is terrible.

[Gokku]

And a level cap that requires more then just "10 merits and a mini game" doesn't = a challenge

for alot of people Maat fight was a defining moment in there XI history regardless of how luck based it was ask any player who struggled with it and they remember how good it felt.

Toss it up to me loving demon souls but id rather play a brutal ffxi that rewards the players who excel then playing kirby's yarn game were even if you lose you win.Some people dont enjoy being a walking god in ffxi and some people would love to do 99999dmg every hit with a soboro and solo everything.

[Saefinn]

I think this is a horrible idea on several levels. Think me mad, I actually enjoyed G5, it was a good challenge and one reason I like FFXI has been for some of its challenging gameplay. It frustrated me, yes, but it felt great winning. I enjoy challenges and I think with SE making FFXI more accessible, there should still be challenging content.

If you had a semi-impossible Maat fight, chances are, you'd need the best gear to do it and a good strategy to do it (either from multiple tries or successful testimonials). You wouldn't believe how many skilled players that already rules out. Difficult for people with emps means it's even more difficult for people without - or at least in general, so that in itself limits down to how many people go to 99, but also, how many jobs they take to 99 too. A lot of folk level jobs not because it's their preferred choice but because it's useful for events. Chances are, they'll take their preferred jobs to 99, not the ones they levelled to just be useful. Fewer players and fewer jobs means fewer people to party with that you need.

Then how many people will decide to quit? I'm willing to bet after people fail this ultra difficult Maat fight a number of times that they'll give up. If they've done most of the other content it wouldn't really be worth them staying.

So why should people be telling others how they should play the game and how to enjoy it. I find having patience with people in a party and explaining things clearly and offering advice is usually the successful option, I can't assume everybody knows everything or that they're well experienced. There's going to be failures, it's a game and it's not important and it's lessons for next time. People learn by doing. Maat 2.0 would be very limited and would probably not teach anybody anything of value...at the very best it'll teach them to solo...at best. The only thing I learned from SCH G5 was...how to do SCH G5. SCH G5 isn't how you solo SCH in a normal situation, then there's soooooo many other important lessons that a Maat fight can't teach you that's best learned by teaming up with other people like: keeping people in alliance healed, prioritising heals, maintaining enmity, when to buff, good AoE distance, avoidoing AoEs, when to time self-cast AoE buffs without taking a lot of damage, avoiding deadly strikes, dealing with mobs that charm, crowd control, stunning at the right time, keeping claim, knowing who to best raise and when, how to deal with specific NMs, mob weakness, strengths and absorbs, what moves certain mobs use - how to prevent them, how to resist them, the best set up to deal with them, best gear setups for different things, multitasking the job's different purposes, how to effectively manage recast and cast times and a whole number of other things.

How have I learned all that? By doing it. By making mistakes and learning from them, learning from other people, listening to advice and asking for advice and experimentation.

But face it people of different experiences play the game and when they start something new they need to be able to learn. They can't be expected to be perfect straight away - I know there's arrogant gamers, but I at least try my best to educate people in any group so that the end result is successful, rather than just getting frustrated at them. Does it work out? Yes. If you feel it's too much to babysit them, then fine, don't let them come, find somebody else to do the job. But being selective limits your choices (but it's your party at the end of the day).

So in my opinion, I should be the one selecting what kind of people I want in my group, not the game design.

[Inafking]

Let's see, you're complaining about the game being too easy but you think it's too hard to spot the n00bs? Maybee your advanced playing ablities and years of experience on FFXI haven't given you the keen detection skills you so desprately need. Or maybee you're so mentaly ill you only want everyone to suffer as much as you have and can't muster any sympathy for others trying to play the game. Either way this is a bad idea.

[Tohihroyu]

with the text from he next genkai already out "10 merits 2 unknown items* and the 2 unknown items looking to come from some sort of synergy mini game. i really feel like threes no challenge at all atm.

What? What? What? (http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m482/P13manrulez/Meme%20Faces%20And%20What%20Not/What.png) ....sersly? a good number & myself included never even bothered with synergy >_>

What was so bad about beating up different NMs oh wait-

I'd also like it if there was more solo 1 on 1 BC's, (I know a good number of ENM are solo-able even before the cap)

I knew it was gonna be something tedious again e_e

[Babekeke]

I want a Maat fight so brutal most relic / empy / mythic players lose.

Hard to make a fight so strategically hard that 'most relic/empy/mythic players lose' yet still completable to non relic/empy/mythic players.
Remebmber it could be made easy for relic/empy/mythic players only since they won't have this for al jobs, so they stil have a challenge on their other jobs. Alternatively, make maat more powerful for players who have completed a quest for either relic/empy/mythic gear^^