[dev1024] New SCH Spells

[Harnao]

This may not be considered a "bug" per sey, however it is an odd concept I noticed.

Kaustra and Embrava are level 5 spells that can only be cast while under Tabula Rasa. However, when SCH is a sub job, that spells are present in the spell list however the spells are always uncastable. As far as I know, there are no other similar situations in the game where a spell is listed and there is no way to make that spell castable.

The spell does meet all the criteria of being "allowed' to show up in the list but it seems wrong that an uncastable spell should be there.

I'm not sure the Tabula Rasa idea is the way to go with this spell. I know the intent is to make the spell very hard to cast. Maybe a good alterantive would be 30% of max MP as well as all availible strategem charges be availible and used on casting.

Its not entirely unreasonable to remove the Tabula Rasa condition as, while SCH is not BLM, it is bsically comerable to any higher tier BLM spell that SCH has no access too (I.E. Burst II, etc.)

Just a thought.

[Delvish]

Post it in the bug section for sure. No need giving those other mages false hopes for something so powerful!
But seriously you are correct. Being SCH exclusive I would certainly say they need to look into making it disappear much like WHM and NIN specific JAs seeing as our spell lists are quite extensive as is. And while you're at it, toss them a line at taking Klimaform off that list too.

[Sotek]

Are people really upset about Klimaform? It was practically worthless on Scholar itself until Empyrean feet were introduced. It's completely worthless for Black Mage since Magic Accuracy shouldn't matter, the only job it really affects is Red Mage and I'd rather not kick them in the teeth more than they have been.

As for removing these from Tabula Rasa, I kind of agree. Remove them from the game, for 2Hour spells they're not that great (though Odin and Alexander are the only comparison). I'd much rather have had Embrava and Kaustra split into normal spells. Native Haste (and Accession Haste). Adloquium based off Enhancing skill with an average set giving 2~3TP/tic. Regen V, though I'm very disappointed with the Regen aspect of Embrava but it wouldn't hurt to actually have the best Regen spell so something like Healing Helices could even be considered.
For Kaustra, four Helices with elemental properties based off Lv.2 Skillchains (Fusion/Gravitation/etc.) with duration based off skill. Would tic the same as regular Helices and damage would obviously be adjusted.

Really, I think that would have been a much better addition to Scholar than two 2Hour spells. Since they're separate they wouldn't be overpowered and obviously they'd be balanced out if needed. At this point I just want Regen V and Haste, I wouldn't mind taking Regen expertise away from White Mage. As for Haste, we get a very potent version a Lv.5 but never learn it natively? That simply just doesn't make sense.

[Ank]

Agreed.. haste is the best part of embrava, but that's kind of weird two hour buff for a job without native haste or even sj haste till 80/99. I'm not even convinced kaustra would be overpowered as is without two hour requirement, but I'd gladly take dual elemental helices with kaustra's duration formula. Embrava could be a cool buff if they took out two hour requirement and scaled haste back, but whatever.

Man remember that thread in the general forum complaining that kaustra was just like odin and odin should be buffed because of it?

As for klimaform.. I more find it funny its subbable since its af, but I agree that it doesn't rightly matter. Recast/duration already limited its usefullness, I don't see blm or rdm caring about it.

[Bayohne]

We have made a couple of changes based on player feedback.


The skill level necessary to produce more potent Haste/Regen effects in Embrava have been reduced *With these changes, you'll notice a more potent effect
The DoT damage for Kaustra increased

[Eric]

Yay!Finally!

[Merton9999]

Are people really upset about Klimaform? It was practically worthless on Scholar itself until Empyrean feet were introduced. It's completely worthless for Black Mage since Magic Accuracy shouldn't matter, the only job it really affects is Red Mage and I'd rather not kick them in the teeth more than they have been.

As for removing these from Tabula Rasa, I kind of agree. Remove them from the game, for 2Hour spells they're not that great (though Odin and Alexander are the only comparison). I'd much rather have had Embrava and Kaustra split into normal spells. Native Haste (and Accession Haste). Adloquium based off Enhancing skill with an average set giving 2~3TP/tic. Regen V, though I'm very disappointed with the Regen aspect of Embrava but it wouldn't hurt to actually have the best Regen spell so something like Healing Helices could even be considered.
For Kaustra, four Helices with elemental properties based off Lv.2 Skillchains (Fusion/Gravitation/etc.) with duration based off skill. Would tic the same as regular Helices and damage would obviously be adjusted.

Really, I think that would have been a much better addition to Scholar than two 2Hour spells. Since they're separate they wouldn't be overpowered and obviously they'd be balanced out if needed. At this point I just want Regen V and Haste, I wouldn't mind taking Regen expertise away from White Mage. As for Haste, we get a very potent version a Lv.5 but never learn it natively? That simply just doesn't make sense.

I agree too. Klimaform being AF1 for SCH is a technicality. It's a spell and every other subbable spell is usable, regardless of how it's acquired. Weapon AF1s of course can't be equipped from SJ because they're weapons. I like that SCH got a spell for an AF1 instead of a useless weapon, and I'd like the usefulness to extend to SCH SJ, however situational it is.

I'm getting less and less excited about Kaustra and Embrava. Kaustra doesn't seem any better than a BLM Blizzaja that can be used at any time. Embrava seems like three spells or upgrades we've been asking for forever as normal abilities, but limited to 2 hours. As stated, I'd rather have tier II dual-element helices instead of Kaustra, castable at any time, Accessionable Haste (even if I have to wait until 96 and SCH main is the only one that can do it) and Regen V.

It still bothers me that with the low popularity of SCH and the wealth of suggestions on the forum to improve it, the only thing we'll get in the course of now 20 levels and 2 years is Perpetuance and two spells usable every two hours.

[Eric]

Immanence is good too, but it totally burns through your stratagems. ; ;

I agree with you , though. I would have preferred regular spells instead of the over-hyped 2-hr spells, as long as they would have actually been useful (I'm looking at you, Animus & Adloquium.). Oh well, at least we're getting something. Blizzard V and Fire V don't hurt either.

[Merton9999]

Immanence is good too, but it totally burns through your stratagems. ; ;

I agree with you , though. I would have preferred regular spells instead of the over-hyped 2-hr spells, as long as they would have actually been useful (I'm looking at you, Animus & Adloquium.). Oh well, at least we're getting something. Blizzard V and Fire V don't hurt either.

I do love Immanance, especially when soloing or duo. I agree about Bliz V and Fire V too. I don't want to make it seem like I'm not looking forward to anything for SCH in the update, but two spells I already expected aren't that interesting to me, and don't really fit in with the concept of having a feedback forum and test server, which so far has resulted in 2-hour only spells for a bottom 5 job.

[zell_]

blizzard v fire v and eventually thunder five will not hurt, i would just like more unique or advanced ways to damage enemies. advanced/combo weather effects, tier two helix, possibly a healing helix and maybe even a stratagem that aoe's tier 1 helix spells and tier 1-4 elemental magic. those dont seem too hard to add to scholar.

though more than anything, i would like the dev team to confirm or deny our requests so we know what to look forward to.

[Siiri]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

[zell_]

id like to see that information. and as for the rest of your post, i guess everyone has an opinion.

[Ank]

The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be.

Yeah a blm with storm2 on him would be pretty amazing.

[Raksha]

All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

That's funny, I dont recall my LS leaders saying "Well since we don't need AoEs, all you BLMS switch to SCH."

If you think all BLM has on SCH is AoEs then you're doing it wrong.

[Merton9999]

id like to see that information. and as for the rest of your post, i guess everyone has an opinion.

It's pretty much just tier II storm + Obi + Twilight cape is 30% boost to damage multiplied on top of the gear bonus.

Incidentally, when it's criticized as overpowered it assumes SCH can somehow magically have the right weather on for free for every nuke, without the extra 48 MP per element and casting time to apply it. By the time I've applied it and cast my first nuke the BLM already has two off with his ridiculous elemental magic casting time.

Realistically, it will do more to benefit the BLM in my party with his FIVE powerful nukes of the same element compared to my two, three if you count helix. Also, has anyone seen the BLM AF3+2? I think we can throw the OP nuke problem out the window, and personally I already have since we've had atmas that double nuking power and are heading into Meteor and level 99 with only an odd Kaustra every two hours to compare >.>

I play BLM too and love it. I wouldn't want my SCH to replace it. And I'm not at all worried it would, manifestationable nukes and tier II storms included. It's not the SCHs crying, it's the few BLMs that are still bitter about not getting the inivitation to the bird party while the rest of us enjoyed our uninterrupted place in end game.

[Miitan]

SE just hates SCH basically.

We're either a sub-standard WHM or a sub-standard BLM and sure, having 2-hour spells is 'unique', it means we're useful once every 2 hours after which we're replacable with a WHM or BLM and once we all hit 99, BLM will get Hailstorm from sub, thus rendering yet another unique aspect of SCH moot.

I used to love Scholar and played it all the time at 75, now I'm on BLM for everything. :(

[SpankWustler]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

I heard this old Chinese proverb proverb once. There was this number. This guy didn't understand numbers, so he was afraid of it and angry with it. One day, someone else handed the fearful, angry dude an abacus and he came to understand the number. He eventually understood the number, and no longer feared or raged against it. He understood the number. The dude was happy. The number was happy. The abacus was happy, too.

Moving on, I'm sure Scholar will get lots of new spells!

Adloquium II! It will give 1.5 TP a tick, but it won't be compatible with Ascension because that would be overpowered!

Klimaform II! It will have a six minute recast to prevent balance issues!

Assidere! The long awaited brown magic! It can remove any status ailment, but only works in outdoor areas!

[Sotek]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

I must have missed the part where Scholar was asking for -ja spells. Manifestation on nukes is something that is already happening, so get the hell over it. It's not even something I wanted or would even consider for Scholar, but SE has already said they're planning it. Seems stupid to pretend it's going to tip the scales in Scholars favor though.
Blizzaja already out damages our fucking two hour spell, even if I could use Manifestation on Blizzard V, it's not going to out damage Blizzaja and Black Mage/Scholar can turn right around an Manifestation Blizzard V right after Blizzaja while I'll be stuck with Blizzard IV and then waiting forever for the recast on Blizzard V. Scholar would have -agas in the most pathetic sense compared to Black Mage - heck, Zell would limit Manifestation to tier I to IV and that's even more balanced, so I in no way see how he'd be suggesting anything that could break Scholar.

As for Storm IIs, you are aware they're not single target only, right? Heck even if they were there's Accession. If you play with people so pig headed about their own damage that they'd sooner offer themselves a 30% damage increase rather than offering the party a 60%-180% damage increase (depending on how many Black Mages are present), then simply stop playing with the morons. Considering how weak magic damage is compared to regular DD damage, I wouldn't turn my nose at any magic damage boost.
Black Mage verses Scholar? The winner is Samurai regardless.
Unless the situation absolutely requires magic damage, both jobs lose out. And the only situations I can think of are:
-aga, which Black Mage will always win in regardless of any Manifestation adjustments.
Raw damage, which Black Mage still wins at.
Survivability, Manawall and Enmity Douse.
Stagger procs, you guessed it, Black Mage.

MP efficiency is the only thing Scholar can win out on (and that's only if for some god awful reason they're using Parsimony in which case their damage will never match up to Black Mages), and even outside Abyssea that seems less important. There's plenty of new Refresh gear, Refresh II and Ballad III, not to mention gear that enhances both of them - that and battles are no where near as long as they once were so things like MP efficiency and enmity control (and no that doesn't debunk Enmity Douse, it's directed at Libra/Animus if anything) are far less important.

[Siiri]

Math taken from Economizer in the healing thread: This is his post.

"Tier 2 storm spells would already be overpowered enough as is, without giving them more overpowered BS on top of it. If you want storm spells to make people absorb the element, it should definitely be a separate spell, at the least. Doubling Stormsurge would be fine however.

Here are what weather effects give, assuming you are wearing an elemental obi:

10% for magic of the day
10% for magic matching single weather
25% for magic matching double weather
35% for magic matching double weather and day

This is also in addition to the 5% boost given by the Twilight Cape. Note that these bonuses stack with other bonuses multiplicatively and ignore caps.

A Scholar with a perfect cure potency set can reach 38% outside Abyssea, and 50% inside. With single weather effects from the Korin Obi and the Twilight Cape, this becomes 58% outside, and 72% inside. If these boosts were double weather, they would be 79% and 95%, respectively. Ignoring the mini-expansion equipment, double weather would still get a respectable 69% outside Abyssea. It gets worse when you consider elemental nukes, which many Scholars consider to be pretty balanced.

Perhaps this wouldn't be as bad if SE also adjusted the levels at which Scholar gets Thunderstorm, Voidstorm, and Aurorastorm to subable levels, but as is, the boost means that in lowman situations, the only thing protecting older jobs from being obsoleted is the ability to proc for Black Mage, or the presence of of a single spell for White Mage. "

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

[Raksha]

Math taken from Economizer in the healing thread: This is his post.

"Tier 2 storm spells would already be overpowered enough as is, without giving them more overpowered BS on top of it. If you want storm spells to make people absorb the element, it should definitely be a separate spell, at the least. Doubling Stormsurge would be fine however.

Here are what weather effects give, assuming you are wearing an elemental obi:

10% for magic of the day
10% for magic matching single weather
25% for magic matching double weather
35% for magic matching double weather and day

This is also in addition to the 5% boost given by the Twilight Cape. Note that these bonuses stack with other bonuses multiplicatively and ignore caps.

A Scholar with a perfect cure potency set can reach 38% outside Abyssea, and 50% inside. With single weather effects from the Korin Obi and the Twilight Cape, this becomes 58% outside, and 72% inside. If these boosts were double weather, they would be 79% and 95%, respectively. Ignoring the mini-expansion equipment, double weather would still get a respectable 69% outside Abyssea. It gets worse when you consider elemental nukes, which many Scholars consider to be pretty balanced.

Perhaps this wouldn't be as bad if SE also adjusted the levels at which Scholar gets Thunderstorm, Voidstorm, and Aurorastorm to subable levels, but as is, the boost means that in lowman situations, the only thing protecting older jobs from being obsoleted is the ability to proc for Black Mage, or the presence of of a single spell for White Mage. "

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.


let me guess, the bolded part is where you stopped quoting Economizer and started speaking for yourself again?

[Delvish]

Oh hey, that comment is referencing me! For the record, I don't honestly believe I can beat a well geared BLM. The unfortunate part is that any not-so well geared BLM gets blown out of the water and I think that is the main complaint because there are so many sub-par BLMs.

[Ank]

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

When our original stuff is animus and two hour spells, of course some of us will be excited about finally having blizV. I'm sorry if that just makes us wannabe mages.

[Sotek]

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

Storm IIs are a progression of Scholars unique stuff.......

But no, some shit ass Scholars you didn't like didn't give you Hailstorm and you still out damaged them. What a perfect justification for not continuing the spell line.

As for playing the job, have you looked at the fucking job? It's meant to be a Black Mage or a White Mage. How the fuck am I meant to learn to play the job instead of being black mage jr. when there is fuck all indication of it being anything else? Libra and Animus certainly aren't full time roles even if they weren't a steaming pile of utter crap.

Is it painful being that utterly stupid? Storm IIs would give Scholar an edge only if the Scholar didn't share it. Cure V gives White Mage the fucking edge only if they cast it on people, if I had a White Mage who Cure V'd only himself I'd kick the fucker in a heart beat and I'd extend the same grace to a Scholar if I was in your place.

[Ank]

Considering storms can be casted on others, I'm not sure what the big deal would be. If you're with a whm, boom instant 80-90% cure potency for them, I'd rather do anything else if I'm with a whm and that sounds great to me. If you're solo curing, its a 15% boost over what you can already do. Ignoring day bonus because you can't control it and everyone will have it equally.

As for buffing blm's, well I usually don't because it usually doesn't matter. I'd love to see what my favorite blm would do if I could storm2 him though, he's already pretty amazing.

[Raksha]

Oh man can you imagine double fire weather + firesday Wildfire damage? That'd be sick.

[Sasaraixx]

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

So you know a grand total of two Scholars, but everyone you talk to (I'm assuming that's the 2 of them) is obsessed with outdamaging BLM? Or are you just basing all of your opinions on the comments of morons on forums? People like WHMs who think Cure V is the only thing that makes them the best healer or BLMs who are constantly afraid of SCHs out-nuking them, ignoring the past 15 levels worth of job adjustments.

Please do not come in the forums and talk about SCH's needing to learn how to play their job when you know absolutely nothing about the job yourself. You really are asking to get attacked :/

[Sasaraixx]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd much rather have adjustments made to our current spells. The Animus and Aldoquium spells were good ideas, but terribly implemented. Stormsurge also needs a serious boost. We need two more Regen spells and some type of cure spell.

Something should happen with the storm spells. I'd like a new Klimaform spell that provides unique enhancements based on the weather you have (-pdt for dust, crit damage for thunder, etc). Double weather is another possibility but I have a feeling it won't happen. It would be a great boost for all mages though. I kind of liked the idea of SCH being the "mage buffer." Buffing mages up until this point has basically consisted of Refresh and MAB. It would be quite nice if SCH could have a few unique mage buffs like mag crit rate, -spell casting/recast, enfeeble potency, song potency, reduced MP cost, etc to go along with Klimaform, BUFFED animus spells and weather. Right now it is very difficult to justify having SCH in a non-manaburn party with other mages. Changes like this would help us work better with other mages.

The TP down spell SE mentioned could be good IF IT IS POTENT.

My only other suggestions have to do with Light and Dark Arts receiving extra bonuses based on your level so that they would not be subbable. Give us some more charges and allow them to remain active during Tabula Rasa and I will be a very happy Taru.

[SpankWustler]

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

Well, I think I just picked out the only valid bit (other than the math equations) in all of this. Storm spells can be cast on others and should be treated as such.

Taking player mentality into account when assessing...whatever you're trying trying to assess...doesn't really work. Far too many players are far too stupid for that to be a worthwhile train of thought.

[Ank]

I'd like a new Klimaform spell that provides unique enhancements based on the weather you have (-pdt for dust, crit damage for thunder, etc).

they could even just add those stat boosts to stormsurge, instead of just int/mnd/str/etc. Windstorm would be cool for a haste boost, or whatever. Storm/klimaform/merit changes are a pretty big opportunity for "unique sch crap that doesn't suck".

When animus spells were first announced, my hopes were that they'd be a straight decrease/increase to current enmity. Using a sch in that way could create an entirely new party mechanic. It was pretty disappointing to see it was basically the same as +/- gear enmity, and not even a significant amount.

If they do make this plague spell, I hope that it not only is potent but works effectively on nms. In a round about way it could be seen as damage mitigation and a buff to curing potential.

[Economizer]

Scholar is a job that definitely could have been handled better in what its role is from the start.

Since Scholar is a hybrid class, it is only right that it is markedly and totally weaker then any specialist. Relying on gear differences to provide this difference is a fundamentally flawed way to do things... for example, Scholar is getting enough gear to cap cure potency outside Abyssea, according to dat file analysis on the test server.

Still, I'm not here to decide if Scholar is weaker or stronger then other jobs or not. Other jobs are getting the majority of Scholar's storm spells, and will be getting Klimaform. I don't feel bad for any Scholars that are surprised about Klimaform. To make the changes (some of which I've already discussed) I'll propose next, I think that people subbing Scholar should also get the last three storm spells.

I definitely see Scholars as weather control experts however, and losing their exclusive hold on Klimaform and storm spells should not be free. In exchange for this, Scholar should get double weather spells (or the ability to double weather with strats) and Klimaform 2 (or merits for Klimaform). With double weather, the stormsurge bonus should be at least doubled, if not tripled.

In addition to those changes, Scholar should get Regen IV, and the Animus spells and Adloquium should be revamped. I've already suggested in the past that Adloquium could work on the same tics as a Helix, with a slight boost (perhaps if it was affected by skill/weather), for example.

Perhaps there should also be more powerful gear that is affected by the weather as well, such as a melee based gear set with a focus on weather for special effects, like 8% Haste for Wind weather, or +20 attack for Fire weather.

I don't think Scholar needs major overhauls to be what it should be, but instead small tweaks to fill the role of a knowing the arts of Geomancy much better.

[Arioch]

i've done some tests where max MP effect the regain from embrava, i was wondering if the devs could let us know does max MP also have a slight effect on kaustra ?

[luckyman]

As of this update, I was able to get a regen effect from Embrava at 55 HP per tick which is pretty nice when used with perpetuance. At least this will help out the whms with regen and haste for a few minutes in parties outside of Abyssea and allow them to focus on curing instead of haste/regen. That being said, there needs to be 2 new synthable items--one in cooking and one alchemy that will reset your two hour. Alchemy already has a temp item -- revitalizer -- but there needs to be a craftable version. It can make you medicated for 20 or 30 minutes, but this would be a great use to scholars so they can be useful in backup regens using Embrava. The cooking version can be under medicines which can be like some kind of stackable gum drops that can give a chance to reset your 2hr, but the chance is about 25%. For the chance being random, the medicated effect applied is reduced by about 50%.

I tried an ebullienced Kaustra on a pink bird in Abyssea-Misareaux and it did a little over 1300 damage and then the slip damage took about 30 more seconds to kill it. Is that similar to what everyone else is seeing?

[Pebe]

Arioch can you go further in detail on your tests? I did some tests as well on the last few pages of the other sch job adjustment forum and didn't get a regen increase in embrava with a boost of 700 mp, but I did get a regen boost when I increased mind only. Although the mind test had some minor errors which need retesting. Are you sure you didn't add any mind(or perhaps enhancing magic skill accidently) when you increased your mp when testing embrava?

[Sira]

i've tested this with a brew the other day, nothing but enhancing magic affects enbrava

[Camate]

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:


• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.


There are still a lot of things we would like to adjust, so we are placing SCH adjustments at a pretty high priority for the future as well.

[Ank]

Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.


The cynic in me says "so parties won't have to waste a slot on me to get my zerg buff?"

But overall optimistic for future adjustments, and I might look for more excuses to two hour just to take advantage of 3 minutes of tabula rasa

[Eric]

The cynic in me says "so parties won't have to waste a slot on me to get my zerg buff?"

But overall optimistic for future adjustments, and I might look for more excuses to two hour just to take advantage of 3 minutes of tabula rasa

Most likely it just means that you won't have to rotate parties like BRDs in the old days.

If your LS/alliance is making you buff them without actually having a spot for you in the alliance, well, then they're just dicks.

BTW: The idea of Parsimony+Perpetuance+Accession on 3 parties within an alliance(and maybe even a second alliance!) is AWESOME. Maybe i'm just being more optimistic BC Camate said that they will put SCH at high priority, but I feel like these 2hr spells are actually reaching a new point of usefulness.

[Sira]

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:


• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.


There are still a lot of things we would like to adjust, so we are placing SCH adjustments at a pretty high priority for the future as well.

I want to make sweet sweet love to you right now if only for that last part

[Ank]

If your LS/alliance is making you buff them without actually having a spot for you in the alliance, well, then they're just dicks.

Well I haven't done anything in an alliance since before abyssea so its more a silly statement than not, but more a reference to brd switching and having outside healers to crap in the past. The zerg potential is pretty amazing, could buff up three full parties pretty quickly, not that that matters a whole lot.

Still, 2 hours regardless and people whining that sch gets all the attention aside, I can't wait for future adjustments to the job over all.

[Eric]

Still, 2 hours regardless and people whining that sch gets all the attention aside, I can't wait for future adjustments to the job over all.I've stopped caring about people's whining that we get all the attention. As long as we get the adjustments we want/need, I'll be happy. :)

[Merton9999]

I've stopped caring about people's whining that we get all the attention. As long as we get the adjustments we want/need, I'll be happy. :)

Same.

And thanks, Camate. This is great news.

[Urteil]

Could you revamp blood weapon since its an ability that can only be used once every two hours, and is terrible?

In the time it took to make these new spells, and balance them twice.


Jobs that desperately need an update to their 2hr i.e

DRK
RNG
THF (Doesn't dodge ranged attacks.)

Could have already happened.

[Delvish]

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:


• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.


There are still a lot of things we would like to adjust, so we are placing SCH adjustments at a pretty high priority for the future as well.

As Karbunckle posted in the THF forums, I too would recommend a restraining order because my two favorite jobs just got a whole lot nicer. Give my third job SAM a major archery revamping and... yea... lets just say my fiancee wouldn't be too pleased.

[Sira]

Could you revamp blood weapon since its an ability that can only be used once every two hours, and is terrible?

In the time it took to make these new spells, and balance them twice.


Jobs that desperately need an update to their 2hr i.e

DRK
RNG
THF (Doesn't dodge ranged attacks.)

Could have already happened.

you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

[Urteil]

you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.

[Eric]

Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.
I agree. A simple potency boost or timer extension on the 2hrs that Urteil mentioned would always be welcomed (among other changes). However, I don't think this is the right thread for that discussion. It would probably also make more of an impact if it had it's own thread where SE could more openly see it.

[Zhronne]

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:
[cut]

Despite a few perplexities that remain I can say I'm very very very satisfied by these announced changes, at least from how they sound on paper.
Thanks for sharing Camate!

[Sira]

im still somewhat mildly perplexed that they mentioned how they wanted to go an alternate course for healing on sch, more towards a regen type healing, yet in order for us to have a better regen than whm (regen was sch leading spell, what happened to that) we have to use our 2hr. So if they wanted to continue on that path of regen type spells, i'd be hard pressed to see what our healing potential would be in the future.

2 hour abilities are nice and all but you can only use them once every 2 hours or so, i know you said you plan to focus more on sch than you have before, but ......yeah.

perhaps as a suggestion you could add regen to the list of spells that can be used with rapture? additionally another unrelated idea that came to mind earlier today: giving sch a trait that will give them a fast cast type trait if using spells of the same element as the weather they have up.

[Economizer]

Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.

I definitely think that changes to two hours for certain jobs could even be implemented by a job trait you get at a certain level if SE absolutely had to implement them this way. For example, THF could dodge ranged attacks and get increased magic evasion (more resist rates) while under the effects of Perfect Dodge at level 95. Or White Mage could have a 100% chance to remove Doom with Benediction at level 99. I think every job could use a boost to two hours by 99.


additionally another unrelated idea that came to mind earlier today: giving sch a trait that will give them a fast cast type trait if using spells of the same element as the weather they have up.

Or this could be a piece of gear. A throw slot piece that gives day/weather: Fast Cast +10% and MAB+2 would be a solid piece, or if SE really loves us, when they finally give a quest to combine all the elemental obi into one, it will become a higher level item that also has fast cast for corresponding day/weather. Spells that are always affected by the weather should get an even greater bonus to the fast cast given by such an effect.


perhaps as a suggestion you could add regen to the list of spells that can be used with rapture?

Additionally, perhaps a piece of gear that makes Rapture give an additional effect of Regen when used with cure spells?

[Xellith]

you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

Nothing would happen. DRGs still have call wyvern as their 2hr lol

[SpankWustler]

I definitely think that changes to two hours for certain jobs could even be implemented by a job trait you get at a certain level if SE absolutely had to implement them this way. For example, THF could dodge ranged attacks and get increased magic evasion (more resist rates) while under the effects of Perfect Dodge at level 95. Or White Mage could have a 100% chance to remove Doom with Benediction at level 99. I think every job could use a boost to two hours by 99.

I'd like to think that the development team is looking at all of the the 2-hour abilities one-by-one and updating the less useful ones, since Eagle Eye Shot, Familiar, and some of the other 2-hour abilities that were disappointing even at 75 have been mentioned.

Of course, I'm probably wrong and the development team is currently hard at work building a box fort using the surplus of cardboard that came in along with the Final Fantasy XIV team's new office chairs. This kind of saddens me because Camate and Bayonne won't get to play in the epic fort due to being in a North American office.


Or this could be a piece of gear. A throw slot piece that gives day/weather: Fast Cast +10% and MAB+2 would be a solid piece, or if SE really loves us, when they finally give a quest to combine all the elemental obi into one, it will become a higher level item that also has fast cast for corresponding day/weather. Spells that are always affected by the weather should get an even greater bonus to the fast cast given by such an effect.

Additionally, perhaps a piece of gear that makes Rapture give an additional effect of Regen when used with cure spells?

I normally love adding stuff through equipment, like a protuberance kind of love, but Scholar already has a lot of equipment that's only useful during one job ability or spell. Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.

It does go with the theme of the job, though, and those pieces of equipment are always amazing in those situations. So I guess this kind of addition would have some good and some bad.

[Eric]

I think having the effect as part of stormsurge (when merits get updated) would be a great way to do it. That way we could also help our fellow BLMs and WHM/RDMs in nuking & healing, respectively (and it would also avoid more "omg unfair sch is OP omggg uguyzz" conversations).

[Economizer]

I normally love adding stuff through equipment, like a protuberance kind of love, but Scholar already has a lot of equipment that's only useful during one job ability or spell. Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.

That's why I was suggesting it should have MAB +2 (so you don't have to macro into another piece during cast) if it was a throw slot item, or being the bonus of combining all the elemental obis. Basically, Scholar should get more gear that is like the Twilight Cape and less gear that is eight different pieces for each element with extra gear if you want to prioritize something like accuracy instead of attack. Actually, not just Scholar, but every job that casts magic.

I can understand having to swap between eight or nine different staffs (not seventeen however), but that's about the extend of where elemental focuses should go. Obis and straps and subligars need to be one piece per slot. Lets hope the guys in the box fort give the guys who want to merge these items together the password to get in the fort so they can implement this...

[Eric]

I think my preference would be to include the fastcast effect on the "super obi"(which is also a really good idea) like you mentioned, as opposed to having it on a separate piece of gear. I think it would be a nice reward for getting all 8 obis and then synergizing it.

EDIT: And again, it would let us extend these benefits to our fellow mages. (At least, if you buff other mages like you already should be doing.)

[Raksha]

Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.


^implying this isnt already the case.

[Eric]

Going off of the idea of how circumstantial SCH gear can be, does anyone have sublimation idle gear with stacked HP+?

I actually had a set like that on my old character before I deleted it. It's EXTREMELY circumstantial gear since you can't cast anything that requires any major gear swaps while you're waiting for sublimation to finish, but I was able to get 400 MP sublimations out of it(as a Hume). It's mostly only useful for building up a complete charge right before a NM fight or just while you're walking to an area.

[Economizer]

I think my preference would be to include the fastcast effect on the "super obi"(which is also a really good idea) like you mentioned, as opposed to having it on a separate piece of gear. I think it would be a nice reward for getting all 8 obis and then synergizing it.

EDIT: And again, it would let us extend these benefits to our fellow mages. (At least, if you buff other mages like you already should be doing.)

The Stormsurge idea you mentioned earlier was a decent one. I think that SE should consider tripling (instead of just doubling) the current Stormsurge buff if they ever let Scholar get double weather spells, but I'm sure there is a lot of work involved with deciding stuff involving double weather - I'm sure I'd discussed it to death elsewhere though.

I'm not the first person to suggest a super obi, although I might be the first to suggest adding a incredibly potent fast cast buff to it. To be honest, I'll just be happy if SE makes a way to combine them, but we can always hope.


Going off of the idea of how circumstantial SCH gear can be, does anyone have sublimation idle gear with stacked HP+?

I have a partial max HP set for White Mage, for Devotion (it also helps for the rare prefight Sublimation setup). A HP set can also help with Convert somewhat, and if you have the White Mage only Empyrean Club... Going beyond HP rings is probably a waste of space/time though, especially when you can get really nice gear like the Twilight Cape that has a decent amount of HP on it. Space is another resource in this game, unfortunately, so sometimes you have to pick and choose pieces based on room.

[Raksha]

If i'm going to precharge my sublimation I usually just use whatever HP gear i have on me. I dont have the space to carry HP+ gear for sublimation/convert.

[Sira]

i do have a near full set of hp gear for sublimation (river gauntlets, jungle sash, aenotherus mantle, meridian ring and verthandi's gem being the most prominent, missing the fomor neck) i do really enjoy having over 500 mp sublimations every 2 minutes or so.

[Ank]

^implying this isnt already the case.

Was gonna say, already feels like that.


To be honest, I'll just be happy if SE makes a way to combine them, but we can always hope.

We can, but SE seems to have been adding more weather/elemental situational stuff so it seems unlikely. Pretty sure blm has been clamoring for a "rainbow staff" since time immemorial.

[Economizer]

Pretty sure blm has been clamoring for a "rainbow staff" since time immemorial.

I think there is a difference between the weather obis and the mythical rainbow staff. As per said Rainbow Staff, I think asking SE to fix the Dorje by involving the magian trials in a combined trail that you can only start with a Dorje would be a nice fix. But I think we'd benefit most from combined Obis, as this would encourage their use.

[Merton9999]

Yeah it's pretty frustrating that the biggest challenge in the game right now is managing my inventory...

With all the situational and specific gear added lately, the recent inventory control changes are less of boon and more of a requirement to remain in the bad state we were in instead of getting worse. Actually I do think it's worse now because instead of just being out of space, we get to be out of space in 10 different locations...

That said, I fully support the super obi. It would need to require the completion of all the others and an additional quest. A nice FC on it would be great, to bring SCH closer to elemental celerity and give other mages the chance to cast faster.

[Sasaraixx]

I love the idea of a super obi. It would be a great way to handle the inventory woes of SCHs (and BLMs as well). You also have the perk of breathing life back into some old content. The quest should be handled by the same NPC as the original obi quests and would require all 8 obis plus an additional item from an NM or something.

I like the idea of more fast cast for SCH, but I'm against it coming in the form of gear. As said, we already have a lot of gear to carry around. It would be very difficult to balance the piece so that you still wouldn't need multiple grips for different situations. As I've said before, I would prefer the boost to come in the form of an upgrade to the grimoire. I think the bonuses for Light/Dark Arts should improve as you level. I believe a post from the dev team said they agreed and would look into it.

I would keep the current bonuses as they are so that they are available via /SCH. I'd like to see a bonus of -20% spell casting time by lv99. That would still be behind BLM, RDM and WHM (with gear included). Recast time could be lowered to -12.5%.

I suppose you could make it a category 3 merit item. My only concern is that we will have to sacrifice another possible bonus in order to receive it. That is the nature of merits of course, but I do think some aid in casting speed is needed.

[Zhronne]

I'm very disappointed by the current Staves system, the Magian ones I mean. Sure they are powerful (and look good! :P) but you can't make 2 of the same element with different affinities. Say accuracy and damage. Well I suppose you could make a +3 damage and +2 accuracy, maybe, but still, do they really expect us to bring around that much gear?
8 staves for damage, 8 staves for accuracy, one for resting, one for Sskin, one for pdt, one for healing... I mean... that's way beyond.
Also it's sad that you can't get something balanced and "in between" like the old HQ staves were. They had elemental affinity 2 with everything: avatar perpetuation, elemental accuracy, elemental damage etc. Why can't you get something that's, say, 3 in everything?

I really hope there will be a way to "merge" staves into one (or at least two, light alligned elements and dark alligned elements) and it would be nice if the same could happen for Sea Gorgets (they need a revamp in damage as well! 0.2ftp modifier maybe?), belts and obis.

[Annalise]

This may not be considered a "bug" per sey, however it is an odd concept I noticed.

Kaustra and Embrava are level 5 spells that can only be cast while under Tabula Rasa. However, when SCH is a sub job, that spells are present in the spell list however the spells are always uncastable. As far as I know, there are no other similar situations in the game where a spell is listed and there is no way to make that spell castable.

The spell does meet all the criteria of being "allowed' to show up in the list but it seems wrong that an uncastable spell should be there.


While not a spell, call beast is the same way on subjob. Any other job subbing beast has access to call beast, but it cannot be used, as all jug pets are BST only. So this type of thing isn't new. I don't think I'd say it's a bug.

The only other thing I can think of with a spell not being castable was before Galka Paladins got an mp boost, they had 146 mp at level 75 and couldn't cast raise without +mp. Completely different there but yeah...

[Merton9999]

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

[Raksha]

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

There's a moogle who has an option to 'give you all spells/rolls/songs/etc' That's how i got it. didnt think to check if i had it before then.

[Camate]

We implemented the previously stated adjustments to Embrava and Kaustra on the Test Server. Check ‘em out :)

[Fredjan]

I hopped on the test server as soon as I heard about this. Tested Kaustra. I'm quite liking the enhanced duration of Tabula Rasa. I've yet to test Embrava, but I will shortly.

Pre-update, I tested with Cosmos/Minikin/Ultimate atmas, did 2861 initial damage to Licorices in Abyssea - Konschtat. I casted a few times in the 90 second window that I was able to. The damage was the same each time.
Post-update, I am now doing 4351 initial damage. Same atma, same gear. All tests were done on one target instead of multiple, so I haven't had a chance to test against multiple targets with Manifestation.

(Of course it won't beat Blizzard V (7166 damage wut?) but it's a very fun 'helix' spell that can be made AoE :p)

Personally, I'm happy with the buff to these thus far, and I'm more excited at things to possibly be on the way for Scholar... but I'd still like stuff I can use more often that is unique to SCH that's actually useful. I rarely use Adloquium or the enmity spells, but I know they've got their uses.

[Ahrana]

All I really want is for SE to find a vision for scholar. A job is more then a set of spells and abilities, it's a role. Right now scholar is missing that.

[Shiyo]

Right now every mage that isn't WHM and BLM is missing a role..aka SCH and RDM.

[Katalsar]

WHM BLM and BLU

[SpankWustler]

All I really want is for SE to find a vision for scholar. A job is more then a set of spells and abilities, it's a role. Right now scholar is missing that.

I'm pretty sure their vision for Scholar's role is "sporadically put large numbers in the chat log, make people who fear math complain". Which, if looked at in a totally pessimistic fashion, is totally appropriate for a Scholar.

[Delvish]

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

Remember that one guy you got your Helix and Weather spells from? 2k says he sells the new spells now come update. Only fitting really.

[Merton9999]

Remember that one guy you got your Helix and Weather spells from? 2k says he sells the new spells now come update. Only fitting really.

Yeah my guess is either That Guy in Eldieme [S] or Silke in Bastok Markets [S], who has had the newer spells. I'll be kneeling down in front of one or the other Sunday night.

[Katalsar]

Hmm..thoughts on some more new spells.

1.) Magic Evasion Spell
2.) Elemental Eater spells good for one spell

[Sotek]

A spell that absorbs Dispel. Watching Perpetuance buffs get wiped away so easily is starting to get annoying. Have it function the same way as Aquaviel so it absorbs Dispel a number of times based off Enhancing skill.

[Economizer]

A spell that absorbs Dispel.

While I have doubts that SE will make a spell that absorbs Dispel (especially multi-effect variants) currently you can do your best to maximize the number of buffs on the tank or yourself to prevent Dispel from taking out anything useful.

Even garbage buffs like barstatus spells from White Mage or the enmity spell from Scholar start to become very useful in these situations. Definitely helpful for the time being, or at least until there is a buff like that.

[Ank]

Watching Perpetuance buffs get wiped away so easily

Yeah that annoys me to, would be nice to have some kind of dispel resistance or something.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah that annoys me to, would be nice to have some kind of dispel resistance or something.

They'll never give a Dispel Resistance spell, all they'd give at most is Bardarkra to WHM to grant a chance to resist dark based Dispel, and Barlightra for the light sided ones.

[Sasaraixx]

While I have doubts that SE will make a spell that absorbs Dispel (especially multi-effect variants) currently you can do your best to maximize the number of buffs on the tank or yourself to prevent Dispel from taking out anything useful.

Even garbage buffs like barstatus spells from White Mage or the enmity spell from Scholar start to become very useful in these situations. Definitely helpful for the time being, or at least until there is a buff like that.

I think that is the entire point of Sotek's post. You shouldn't need to cast a bunch of garbage spells in order to keep your enhanced buffs from being dispelled so easily. I think this should definitely be the case for Embrava.

Perhaps we could get a piece of gear that enhances Perpetuance. It could allow you to "resist" dispel more often or place the Perpetuanced buff at the end of the list so that it will be dispelled last. I have no idea how you would code that of course.

[Merton9999]

I agree with the Resist Dispel suggestions, especially now with Embrava.

Although since it's a 2 hour spell, during the time you're applying Embrava you also have the freedom to stack every other buff as protection at low MP, long duration and low recast.

Still, for a buff-reliant job like SCH it makes perfect sense and would very welcome to have a JA, gear or trait that "protects" buffs. In fact, I'd be happy if it were simply Perpetuance that did it, as well as maybe RDM's empyrean set bonus to Composure. Such a trait or gear enhancement would be especially applicable to SCH and RDM considering those jobs will likely not be able to give the possible Bardark to a party member.

[Raxiaz]

Seconded on buff protection!