Test Server Feedback - Dark Knight

[Urteil]

This is a new thread seperate from the manifesto thread, to save community reps and developers the hassle of reading/winding through the other one:


And a concise place for Dark Knight discussion to ensue, like the other Job related threads on the board currently.

We are all looking forward to community rep, and developer responses!



Absorb - Attri:

Overall this is a great addition, as long as it doesn't become nerfed into oblivion with horrible casting times, recast times or accuracy, it is a very nice gain. Thank you development team.


Problems: - Doesn't absorb three buffs when used in conjunction with Nethervoid + Bale Flanchard +2.

Possessing the mythic weapon "Liberator" shows no increase in the effects absorbed or potency in the spell whatsoever.



Scarlet Delirium:

Duration is far too short, the ability offers no noticable potency despite us being necessary to kill ourselves for it to function.

Even if we attain this incredibly backwards goal of killing ourselves the reward we get is laughable at best.


The duration needs to be vastly increased so it is feasible for the DRK to gain advantage of whatever 'boon' you had in mind, to use against our foes.



Example:

Scarlet Delirium

Channels the damage the Dark Knight endures into increased attack and magic attack.

Duration: 180s
Recast: 300s

At maximum potency (losing 50% or more of max hp), the Dark Knight will deal 25% more physical and magical damage.

This will affect Weaponskills and all forms of Magic damage including Elemental WS's, Drains, and those T3 nukes that are borderline useless.



That being said. . . . .

The current potency is absolutley laughable and give Dark Knights absolutley zero incentive to cast more magical spells. Or to even push the button let alone make a macro hoping for a noticeable gain in melee/weaponskill damage

Its even reported that this abiltity does not boost the potency of Aspir/Drain.



This ability ranks right up there with Arcane Crest in futility and pointlessness, please replace it with something useful or make it worth while!






Like:

A Real 2hr
Blood Weapon finally made a normal ability, because that's what it is.
Perfect Parry
Instacast Dark Magic spell with no recast.

Anything.


Thank you.

[NeoLionheart]

I have to agree with all the points and suggestions provided by Urteil. Mostly the current issue concerning Scarlet Delirium. And judging from many other threads I have seen from various sources, I'm sure many others will as well

[brayen]

I will have to agree with the JA being vastly lacking. In terms of usefulness you need to be able to take enough damage form your enemy (as souleatter has shown to not work with it) seems very difficult to do in a 1min window while being able to take advantage of the bonus<have not seen any conclusive numbers for the bonus but i heard dev team say it was 20%?>

[Cljader1]

SE please give us dark knights a new job trait or job abilities that our useful, and both fit the theme and aesthetics of the job. In fact here's a couple of ideas


Job Trait

Blood Soul lvl 50 -adds a 10% chance that your melee strike will be completely absorbed as HP. Does not work with weaponskills.


Job Abilities

Arcana Stike lvl 95 - the damage from your next melee strike is absorbed as both HP and MP. One strike only, duration 30 seconds, recast 5 min

Blood Lust lvl 91 -the dark knight absorbs the enemy's ATT and STR with each consecutive melee strike. Duration 1 min, recast 5 min

[NeoLionheart]

^ Good ideas. (^_^)b

[wish12oz]

Guillotine needs to be crit chance based on TP with the modifiers left exactly as they are too!

[Cljader1]

I'm really tired of this, dark knight needs some love. Camate can you please issue us dark knights some responses on what is going on with the job and what the hell happened to "Scarlet Delirium." Plus can you please address "Blood Weapon" it shouldn't be our 2hr ability, its duration is only 30 secs its basically a techinique that dnc's can use at will. "Blood Weapon" should be a regular job ability with the duration being 30 secs and the recast being 15 mins.

Moreover for us to be the KINGS of dark magic and absorption, dncs sure do embarrass us with the utility of their absorptions techniques "drain and aspir samba" to just mention a few. Oh and then there's blm who have access to more useful top tier dark magic the drks themselves, blm have 2 break timers with "Break, Breakaga" and a dark magic nuke "Comet." Please SE help drks you have embarrassed us enough

[Juri_Licious]

Blood weapon definitely needs to be a normal Job Ability.

[Cljader1]

I got a question for the rest of the dark knights out there, dont you find it embarrassing that we are the only job with spells that have a freakin 3 MINUTE recast time. Seriously 3 minutes for spells, even RAISE III only has a 60 sec recast time, and Blm and pop off 4k-5k nukes with only a 48 sec recast time. Yet SE gives us 3 min recast timers for drain 2 and dreadspikes, oh and drain 1 has a recast time of 60 secs which is longer that blizzard V, Firaja, it basically on the same recast timer as a whm's raise 3.

[Muras]

I got a question for the rest of the dark knights out there, dont you find it embarrassing that we are the only job with spells that have a freakin 3 MINUTE recast time.

Not completely true, as BLU's Magic Hammer spell is on a 3 minute timer too. But yes, I still think 3 minute timers on spells is pretty silly.

Since we're all tossing out JA changes that make sense, I got one that'd be fun and interesting that matches DRK. I dunno what to call it since I suck at naming things, but the name doesn't matter:

Name: <Unknown>
Lv: 65
Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 180 seconds (3 mins)
Description: Makes it possible for your elemental or damage dealing dark magic spells to be used in a skillchain, but not a magic burst.

Yes, I stole SCH's skillchain strategem, but instead of lasting for 1 spell, it can be used as many times as you want within the 30 seconds. And it works with Dark Magic too. For the record, I'm also 90 SCH, so I don't mind DRK getting this unique ability. And given that SE is sharing things among jobs these days like DNC's Wild Flourish and SAM's Konzen-ittai, or WHM's Divine Seal and SCH's mini Divine Seal Rapture, why not?

There's probably a lot of examples, but I won't bother looking them all up. And it honestly suits DRK better than SCH given that it's a melee job. When was the last time you saw a SCH seriously try to use Immanence anyways? And believe me, this'll get DRKs casting their elemental spells because they can do the following with it (Since SE apparently wants us to):

Use Ability > Cast Aero > Cast Bio > *Creates Gravitation skillchain* > Torcleaver > *Creates Darkness Skillchain*

Although this ability doesn't really sacrifice anything in particular, you could consider the time needed to cast the spells a sacrifice of your melee damage. I've said it before though, that I don't think the sacrifice mentality really fits DRK. I just don't think it works.

On a final thought (And somewhat non-serious because I know this'll never happen even though it technically makes so much sense), if we really need to sacrifice something, and since SE is looking for things besides HP and MP, how about sacrificing our CHR for something useful? It'd sure give Absorb-CHR a purpose. Just a thought.

[Cljader1]

I just wonder why blm has access to more useful top tier dark magic than drk's, blms have 4 sleep timers (sleep I/II, Sleepaga I/II) two break timers (Break, Breakaga) two aspir timers (aspir I/II) and they have (comet). There dark magic is better than ours they, the got more sleeps, more breaks, same tier aspir/stun and a dark based nuke. Drk basically got one dark based nuke and its drain II and its on a damn 3 min timer. Our elemental magic is crap, how we going to be the masters of dark magic with no freakin "Dark Magic Potency" Job Trait. Dark knights need a dark magic nuking line and not elemental magic, to adjust this maybe the absorb-stat line we have can both absorb the desired stat and deal Dark damage at the same time. That will make are absorb stat line more useful to drks.

[Rezeak]

I'll repost what i posted in the main topic since it's relevant.


Scarlet Delirium i tested it a bit more today and here's the finding.

On use Effect that will last 1 min
Once you take any DMG you will gain the Scarlet Delirium which will last 1 min after that. (aka if you take DMG 30secs in you will get the Scarlet Delirium effect for 1 min after that 30 secs)
Any dmg after will add no extra DMG. ( mean if a mob hits you for 100 DMG ur looking at a 1% DMG boost for the entire effect)

It seems to be based off hp % lossed at 1% hp lossed = +0.4% DMG (very rough estimate)

All the testing info is on the DRK forum and it was done with elemental WSes but it follow what the Dev posted a while back.

I would like SE to answer how they think DRK could use this :( u need to take a decent amount of DMG in one hit for it to be worthwhile.

So i guess when i said in best case your getting a 6% DMG overall i was wrong in most cases you'll prolly be looking at a 1% DMG boost.

My last suggestion on this....
If you want to keep it the same way SE make it so
SD Reduces DMG taken 50-100% for the 1 attack and you transfer the DMG to DMG%
Aka SD absorbs DMG taken for a DMG boost. (Work well with the Way drk is absorbing and such)

So you could use like this
Catus rdys 1000 Needles
DRK uses Scarlet Delirium
Catus uses 1000 Needles
DRK takes 0 DMG (and gain 10-20% DMG boost for 1 min)

This way the ability may not be great for dealing DMG but in cases where mobs use highly DMGing move DRK can use that agianst them and this i feel is what DRK is about ^^.

Basically with SD u get 1 min to take any kind of DMG then once you recieve that DMG you will get a 1 min DMG boost based off that damage taken (nothing will increase it after the first hit/ws/ja you take dmg on)

[Soidisant]

So it's entirely possible that Scarlet Delirium might not be functioning correctly then? Theoretically it could be that the damage taking phase is not supposed to wear off after you take a hit and is actually supposed to last 1 minute or until you lose 50% of your HP. But for whatever reason it is activating after 1 hit (Maybe SE forgot to set the damage threshold for it before activation so it's activating after 1HP damage taken instead of the 50% of max HP)

It's entirely possible that it is working as intended but just throwing it out there that the ability could actually be broken at the minute which is why we're getting such poor results. I mean it is a test server and we've had mishaps with updates like that in the past.

Least I hope that is the case...

[Kwate]

I'm not a DRK, or even play DRK, but I have to admit it seems SE is really hesistant on giving both DRK and PLD something robust or even semi useful lately which surprises me on the road to 99. I'm a career BLU and a damn good one, it just seems both DRK and PLD are just getting left behind further and further for no apparent reason while other jobs are flourishing.

+1 on some positive changes for DRK.

[Selzak]

Gonna go ahead and post this here too:

DRK just keeps getting useless abilities which further complicate the job while doing nothing to make the job worthwhile. So not only has the job become relatively useless (with respect to other jobs), it also has no definition because SE is afraid to make the job excel at anything.

Make Blood Weapon a 5%-10% activation trait and give us a Superman two-hour; that's what they're there for.

How about making our two-hour a variation of Doom (BLU gets it...seriously?) that works along the lines of granting the DRK a gaze effect that may inflict Death on any enemy facing the user? It would be like a 20 second effect that checks some level-based derived possibility each tic- either dropping the enemy dead instantly when it hits or doing nothing. The idea is that you use the JA, look the mob in the eye, and wait anxiously during the brief moments that your gaze may kill the enemy.

Obviously some NM's would be immune, but don't just go ahead and make it useless in any important situation. We should first consider whether another job could use its two-hour to solo the same NM, and set the Death possibility at each tic in the 20 second interval accordingly. It may sound powerful, but you've basically got a 20 second interval for it to either randomly work or do absolutely nothing for you. If a MNK or SAM can go into a BCNM and take out half of the mob's HP with their two-hour, this ability should at least have a ~20% chance of going off over the entirety of its duration in that same fight.

I should be able to Chuck Norris as many worms as I can get to look at me in South Gustaberg at 99 with this ability, though.


Give us a pair of opposing job abilities! DRK and PLD are hybrid jobs, aren't they? Why is it that SAM and NIN have abilities to facilitate this concept while DRK and PLD, which were created and forced into this idea, are struggling to live up to it?

The concept of Scarlet Delirium can be our full-time melee DD JA, mildly scaling our damage % as our HP is lowered, while also granting a possibility of critical weapon skill attacks while wielding a Great Sword or Scythe (maybe require the DRK to be behind the enemy for this critical chance, too). This might also give a weak DoT effect to the DRK, both as a trade-off and as a manner to reliably lose HP/gain damage boost the entire time.

Just make the crit hits on weaponskills a possibility- the same rate that we'd critical hit on a normal swing. The existing ability would obviously be adjusted to make this fit with game-balance (assuming that it's currently not working as expected, though).

Abyssal Clarity can be our full-time magic utility JA, lowering the cast and recast times of Dark Magic spells, slightly boosting Occult Accumen, and lowering attack while raising magic attack- both to a moderate extent. These effects would also only work while wielding a Great Sword or a Scythe. Maybe this ability could grant us access to additional spells as well.

This should be a direct translation of some sort, to the effect that we could use LR to boost spell damage. The reduced timers on spells, however, should be specific and done in a way that allows the DRK to act more like a mage. The Drain II timer, for instance, would need to be drastically lowered under this effect.

These abilities should be able to be used full-time, but have moderate recast times in order to avoid exploitation. Something like 5:00 / 5:00.


The former would be used mostly in well-balanced parties, while the latter would be used mostly for low-man and solo situations. Maybe we could spice things up a bit by enhancing the effects of Scarlet Delirium while the user is wielding a Great Sword, and enhancing the effects of Abyssal Clarity while wielding a Scythe. Or vice-versa, whatever. It'd be a cool way to persuade DRKs to use both weapons situationally.

Abyssal Clarity would realize the idea of a DRK mage/warrior hybrid supporting itself and hindering its enemies while using elemental weaponskills to finish them off.

Scarlet Delirium would answer the problem(s) that DRKs have been suffering with since Abyssea, and put them on par with the other heavy DD's in that area while not overpowering DRK outside (the crit hit chance on a WS would match the crit hit chance on a normal melee attack: closing a large gap in Abyssea and a small one outside).


These are just rough ideas, the direction is what's important. I think almost all players agree that SE just doesn't get DRK. It's silly to think that the developers just hate the job!

[Urteil]

If SE wants us to use magic, why don't we have a darkness based nuke by now.


BLU and BLM just got one.

[Armangetto]

Scarlet Delirium is pretty underwhelming. As Soidisant said, it could be glitched on the test server. They should change it to a 3 min duration / 5 min recast Job ablity. They could make it so you have to take the dmg need to get the full bonus during the 3 min duration instead of the 1 min to take dmg, then 1 min for dmg bonus to take effect. (if thats how it currently works.)

They said we were geting a dark magic fast cast Job trait. I wounder why we arn't geting it this update? Maybe we are going to get it on the mini update?

I agree, Blood weapon needs to be a regular Job ablity or a Job trait. Hell DRGs old 2hr was summoning their pet and they gave them Sprit surge. Why can't they do the same for us?

[Urteil]

Blood Weapon - 8m JA, 2handed weapon onry.


Kraken club phobia fixed.

[Zoner]

Blood Weapon - 8m JA, 2handed weapon onry.


Kraken club phobia fixed.

and afterwards remove the souleater resistance from mobs

[Rafien]

SE please give us dark knights a new job trait or job abilities that our useful, and both fit the theme and aesthetics of the job. In fact here's a couple of ideas


Job Trait

Blood Soul lvl 50 -adds a 10% chance that your melee strike will be completely absorbed as HP. Does not work with weaponskills.


Job Abilities

Arcana Stike lvl 95 - the damage from your next melee strike is absorbed as both HP and MP. One strike only, duration 30 seconds, recast 5 min

Blood Lust lvl 91 -the dark knight absorbs the enemy's ATT and STR with each consecutive melee strike. Duration 1 min, recast 5 min


I love the Blood Soul idea. Also, give us a Merit to increase the chance of drain.

Also, like it was pointed out ^^, lower the recast time on our spells.

[Anathiel]

I'm really tired of this, dark knight needs some love. Camate can you please issue us dark knights some responses on what is going on with the job and what the hell happened to "Scarlet Delirium." Plus can you please address "Blood Weapon" it shouldn't be our 2hr ability, its duration is only 30 secs its basically a techinique that dnc's can use at will. "Blood Weapon" should be a regular job ability with the duration being 30 secs and the recast being 15 mins.

Moreover for us to be the KINGS of dark magic and absorption, dncs sure do embarrass us with the utility of their absorptions techniques "drain and aspir samba" to just mention a few. Oh and then there's blm who have access to more useful top tier dark magic the drks themselves, blm have 2 break timers with "Break, Breakaga" and a dark magic nuke "Comet." Please SE help drks you have embarrassed us enough

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!!!!!

(South park quote)

[Arek]

I agree with the fact that Scarlet Delirium is far too short to use it correctly as a physical enhancement and more as a Magical enhancement, 1min... Like 1 or 2 spell casting ?

Very disappointing right now... :(

For the rest pointed in this topic, some ideas are good, others are probably unreal

[Rezeak]

Job Trait

Blood Soul lvl 50 -adds a 10% chance that your melee strike will be completely absorbed as HP. Does not work with weaponskills.


See this is the kinda of small stuff we need SE it doesn't add much to DRK but it fits DRK well and also take a bit of strain off the WHMs which is probably one of the main issues with DRK also this would work well as DRK Double attack lol.

Like if u made SD a DMG negate ja as well it would be nice because avoiding 1 attack every 3 mins isn't overpowered and if you use it to avoid a Large attack then you'll get a DMG boost as your reward.

As for Blood weapon change making 30->60/120 secs doesn't seem that bad of an idea you can make it 1/2 effect with a 1 handed weapon if kclub is the issue cause i'm sure 90%-95% of all DRKs would agree kclub zergs are a thing of the past and we should focus on our main weapons.

[Urteil]

If your main concern about DRK is using a club for 30 seconds every 2 hours.

You were never a real DRK and need to gtfo.


Just like how the PS2 is holding FFXI back, you are holding our job back.

[Anathiel]

Realistically the only update I think we could get, is making our 2hr a JA. What would replace the 2hr? no idea. The fastcast is a cool idea, but I'm sure they're worried about us doing asborb zergs so....maybe.

[Chriscoffey]

If your main concern about DRK is using a club for 30 seconds every 2 hours.

You were never a real DRK and need to gtfo.


Just like how the PS2 is holding FFXI back, you are holding our job back.
A 300 quote comes to mind about this entire topic but as that sort of thing has been run into the ground i shall refrain myself from it. IN OTHER NEWS SAM GETS 10% OVER CAP HASTE BOOST WITH WARRIOR GETTING 50% TRIPLE ATTACK RATE.

[Return1]

Some of the ideas in this thread are so abysmally horrible they make me wish I could prick my wrists repeatedly with the vorpal safety pin of weeping and unleash vast cataracts of blood droplets.

1) SD needs a duration boost for sure. The function can work fine as is for now, just save it for when you anticipate a wicked AoE or Throat stab like move and then pop SD, Max power achieved, but the duration must, MUST be at least 3 minutes.

2) Sleep is a not a dark magic. It's a dark element spell, but it's enfeebling magic.

3) Of course the MAB part of SD does nothing for Drain/Aspir, they aren't affected by MAB.

4) BW does suck as a two-hour. No two-hour should be 100% useless on whole superfamilies of mobs! (Undead)

5) DRK doesn't really need a major fix, if you make all physical WSes capable of critical hits, you just balanced a lot of DD, not just DRK.

6) DNC doesn't have "better absorbs" than DRK. They get a crappy Drain/Aspir Samba, we get drains capable of over 500 damage each BEFORE Nether Void, making them some of the most mp efficient damage spells in the entire game, we can steal stats, soon will be able to steal enhancements, we can steal TP, and Aspir I and II are good tools when applicable.

7) If they want to be extremely extra nice, they can add Absorb-SPEED which would give us a 50% haste that stacks with WHM haste and inflicts a slow effect that stacks with slow. This would make DRK more powerful as a DD and desired for contributions outside of melee thanks to slow being a great enfeeble effect on higher level NMs.

[Modoru]

4) BW does suck as a two-hour. No two-hour should be 100% useless on whole superfamilies of mobs! (Undead)


PDodge doesn't dodge magic.

...Thief usually gets 2~3 shot by high-tier magic spells, moreso if they're resistant to usual spell-interrupting tactics when solo [resistant to sleep bolts, damage spike doesn't interrupt, high PDT, etc.].

Granted that thief only really needs to use PD as an emergency thing, and the high amount of magic-casting mobs, it just makes things a pain overall.

So hey, you're not alone on at least that kind of thing.

PS: I know people use PD for sac pulls as well, but I'm not referring to those kinds of situations, where you're literally killing yourself anyway.

[Cljader1]

1) SD needs a duration boost for sure. The function can work fine as is for now, just save it for when you anticipate a wicked AoE or Throat stab like move and then pop SD, Max power achieved, but the duration must, MUST be at least 3 minutes.

I even think the function of this ability is screwed up...listen to yourself "let the mob get off a throat stab so you can pop SD" thats ridiculous why would you let the mob get that off, you just cast stun to prevent the throat stab



6) DNC doesn't have "better absorbs" than DRK. They get a crappy Drain/Aspir Samba, we get drains capable of over 500 damage each BEFORE Nether Void, making them some of the most mp efficient damage spells in the entire game, we can steal stats, soon will be able to steal enhancements, we can steal TP, and Aspir I and II are good tools when applicable.

FALSE we dont get drains of over 500, a good drain I is in the mid 200's or mid 300's range, and drain II rarely ever touch the 500 mark. Nether Void is used to make Drains reach a respectable number. Absorb stats are trash absolutely trash the time it took you to cast that useless spell you just missed a melee swing. Absorb stats need to also deal dark element damage as well. BTW how can you say a dnc's drain and aspir samba are crappy just the dnc sub only offers more survivability and utility then a lvl 90 main drk's entire arsenal.

[Return1]

The difference here is that you can't dodge magic attacks from any mob, and there aren't any mob families that have 0 physical attacks whatsoever, so you always get something from PD, whether you take advantage of it or not.

BW will never drain HP from Skeletons, Ghosts, Hounds, Shades, Fomors, Qutrub, Doomed, Corpselights, Draugars, Corses, Vampyrs, or Draugar Wyverns. Completely useless against a large number of mob types.

[Return1]

I even think the function of this ability is screwed up...listen to yourself "let the mob get off a throat stab so you can pop SD" thats ridiculous why would you let the mob get that off, you just cast stun to prevent the throat stab




FALSE we dont get drains of over 500, a good drain I is in the mid 200's or mid 300's range, and drain II rarely ever touch the 500 mark. Nether Void is used to make Drains reach a respectable number. Absorb stats are trash absolutely trash the time it took you to cast that useless spell you just missed a melee swing. Absorb stats need to also deal dark element damage as well. BTW how can you say a dnc's drain and aspir samba are crappy just the dnc sub only offers more survivability and utility then a lvl 90 main drk's entire arsenal.

Not just throat stab, any throat stab like attack. You won't have stun up for all tp moves and you can't even stun most of the really dangerous mobs, or at very least not reliably. If your healer doesn't suck, they'll have you cured up to safety before the animation of the tp move is even done.

And we don't get drains to 500? Really? Drain 1 is programmed in a way that scales with you as your dark magic skill rises. At 75 with capped skill, strong skill gear build, and boosts to Drain/Aspir gear, 500 Drains on Dark weak enemies were very possible, pre-Nethervoid. This is amazing for 21mp.

If you couldn't do it, blame the player, not the game.

Absorb-stat spells do damage to a target's stats, there's no need for direct damage. If the decay is removed and the duration is Haste or Refresh-like, Absorb-Stat spells would be awesome. With the Dark Celerity we're supposedly getting in the future.

DNC sub isn't awesome for Drain/Aspir sambas, they're a perk sure, but the TP based Waltzes are what make /DNC survivability so awesome.

[Urteil]

They gave us three minutes to absorb one hit of damage.



Did someone on the dev team get dropped as a baby, or drinking on the job?

[NeoLionheart]

And we don't get drains to 500? Really? Drain 1 is programmed in a way that scales with you as your dark magic skill rises. At 75 with capped skill, strong skill gear build, and boosts to Drain/Aspir gear, 500 Drains on Dark weak enemies were very possible, pre-Nethervoid. This is amazing for 21mp.

If you couldn't do it, blame the player, not the game.
I'm calling bullshit on this. 500 Drains? Where? In Abyssea with Dunes atma or on darksday?

At level 90 with 413 Dark Magic skill with gear + Hirudinea + Excelsis ring, highest that my Drains get is about 422-ish without Nether void. And this is while killing (weak to dark elemental) Aerns to get pop items for Merciful Cape.

Ironic isn't it?

And I seriously doubt the little bit of dark magic skill gear that I'm missing + Vampiric set from Assault will easily break 500 without day/weather/obi bonus. Especially because of Drains fickle nature. It doesnt matter how good your gear is, it only determines your maximum possible Drain. While on the flipside, the game randomly decides if you're gonna get 50% to 100% of that maximum.

[Urteil]

Not just throat stab, any throat stab like attack. You won't have stun up for all tp moves and you can't even stun most of the really dangerous mobs, or at very least not reliably. If your healer doesn't suck, they'll have you cured up to safety before the animation of the tp move is even done.

And we don't get drains to 500? Really? Drain 1 is programmed in a way that scales with you as your dark magic skill rises. At 75 with capped skill, strong skill gear build, and boosts to Drain/Aspir gear, 500 Drains on Dark weak enemies were very possible, pre-Nethervoid. This is amazing for 21mp.

If you couldn't do it, blame the player, not the game.

Absorb-stat spells do damage to a target's stats, there's no need for direct damage. If the decay is removed and the duration is Haste or Refresh-like, Absorb-Stat spells would be awesome. With the Dark Celerity we're supposedly getting in the future.

DNC sub isn't awesome for Drain/Aspir sambas, they're a perk sure, but the TP based Waltzes are what make /DNC survivability so awesome.

Drain for 500 without nethervoid, on anything worthwhile?


In what universe.

[Cljader1]

Not just throat stab, any throat stab like attack. You won't have stun up for all tp moves and you can't even stun most of the really dangerous mobs, or at very least not reliably. If your healer doesn't suck, they'll have you cured up to safety before the animation of the tp move is even done.

And we don't get drains to 500? Really? Drain 1 is programmed in a way that scales with you as your dark magic skill rises. At 75 with capped skill, strong skill gear build, and boosts to Drain/Aspir gear, 500 Drains on Dark weak enemies were very possible, pre-Nethervoid. This is amazing for 21mp.

If you couldn't do it, blame the player, not the game.

Absorb-stat spells do damage to a target's stats, there's no need for direct damage. If the decay is removed and the duration is Haste or Refresh-like, Absorb-Stat spells would be awesome. With the Dark Celerity we're supposedly getting in the future.

DNC sub isn't awesome for Drain/Aspir sambas, they're a perk sure, but the TP based Waltzes are what make /DNC survivability so awesome.


Drains are not what you make them out to be there are our signature spells but the are a boatload of mobs resistance to dark magic bats, antica and antlion just to name a few, and im not doing to even get started on the mob that are immuned or its ineffective against. Mp efficiency of drain is not a benefit when you have a 60 sec and 3 min recast time. Drains are some of drk's best spells but the recast timers are ridiculous, drain II has 3 times the recast timer as raise 3, and 4 times the recast timer of any blm's 4k-5k nuke...you dont see a problem with that.

[Urteil]

Drains are not what you make them out to be there are our signature spells but the are a boatload of mobs resistance to dark magic bats, antica and antlion just to name a few, and im not doing to even get started on the mob that are immuned or its ineffective against. Mp efficiency of drain is not a benefit when you have a 60 sec and 3 min recast time. Drains are some of drk's best spells but the recast timers are ridiculous, drain II has 3 times the recast timer as raise 3, and 4 times the recast timer of any blm's 4k-5k nuke...you dont see a problem with that.


Why does Drain II have a greater recast than Blizzaja or Impact.

[Selzak]

Why does Drain II have a greater recast than Blizzaja or Impact.
Because then it would have utility. Drain II is just there to say, "Hey, look! You have Drain II! It's such a nice spell, isn't it!?"

I don't know, I'm about to die and I can't cast it for another minute and a half. It's like saying MNK can survive well without counter, HP boost, or guard because it has Chakra.

[Return1]

Drains are not what you make them out to be there are our signature spells but the are a boatload of mobs resistance to dark magic bats, antica and antlion just to name a few, and im not doing to even get started on the mob that are immuned or its ineffective against. Mp efficiency of drain is not a benefit when you have a 60 sec and 3 min recast time. Drains are some of drk's best spells but the recast timers are ridiculous, drain II has 3 times the recast timer as raise 3, and 4 times the recast timer of any blm's 4k-5k nuke...you dont see a problem with that.

You can find tons of testing/rants I did on Alla DRK forums if you look. I know the weaknesses of Drains/absorbs, I know there are over 20 mob types that casting dark magics on are pretty much a waste of time.

The calculation of Drain's Damage is based mainly, possibly solely, on Skill and the target's resistance to Dark Element, unlike normal nukes. A mob with a weakness to dark element will take more from drain than a mob with a neutral dark resistance, unlike nuking where resistance only affects a mob's chance to resist. This would be unusual but drain is already different in that its damage isn't static, but it has some sort of pDIF effect.

This was tested years ago in ballista with dark resist gear and carol. When the target had his dark resistance raised, Drain would consistently do less damage when unresisted. I didn't do testing for a cap, but there seems to be a soft cap at around 300+ skill.

I was able to break 500 damage on a Skoffin and a Sea Puk at mamool North Camp at 75 with a full Dark Magic Skill build/merits and Enhances Drain/Aspir pieces, day, and a dark threnody. I never said it was consistently over 500, I said it was possible to do over 500.

And yes MP efficiency is a benefit when you're a job that can't rest and has a relatively small hp pool. Also, your DRK must be geared awfully to have to wait the full recast. Drain has Drain was about 10 times more efficient than the best nuke for the longest time, and that's without considering HP return.

The reason Drain II has a longer recast time is because it used to be a gigantic boost to max HP.

[Cljader1]

The reason Drain II has a longer recast time is because it used to be a gigantic boost to max HP.


The HP boost, thats your rational for drain II's 3 min recast time? where blms have 5k nukes, 4 sleep timers and 2 break timers each of which is under 60 secs, and rdms and spam stoneskin/sleep stoneskin/sleep at will with each stoneskin capped at 350-450 damage protection. For god sake a whm can cast raise III on three people before we get another drain 2 up. Getting a temporary 500 hp boost is not justification for that ridiculous recast time. BTW Im using full recast time for all the jobs i mention...believe me a blm deosnt have to wait a full 48 secs to get off another Firaja. Drk has the longest recast timer in the game by far...and why is that and for what purpose?

BTW you are a thf...what are u doing in a drk thread?

[Return1]

The HP boost, thats your rational for drain II's 3 min recast time? where blms have 5k nukes, 4 sleep timers and 2 break timers each of which is under 60 secs, and rdms and spam stoneskin/sleep stoneskin/sleep at will with each stoneskin capped at 350-450 damage protection. For god sake a whm can cast raise III on three people before we get another drain 2 up. Getting a temporary 500 hp boost is not justification for that ridiculous recast time. BTW Im using full recast time for all the jobs i mention...believe me a blm deosnt have to wait a full 48 secs to get off another Firaja. Drk has the longest recast timer in the game by far...and why is that and for what purpose?

BTW you are a thf...what are u doing in a drk thread?

Reading fail!

USED TO BE

Back in the day 300-500 Drain II was massive for HP. SE Zergs ran rampant, and HP over 1700 and the ability to hold hate without engaging while /NIN made you an awesome tank. This was before Cruor and Atma buffs, and back then BLMs were lucky to consistently deal 1k to the endgame mobs. I assure you there were no 5k nukes from your BLMs when Drain II was released. That HP boost would have been monstrous for SE and for tanking if it were able to be kept full time.

Comparing R3 to Drain II is retarded. Completely different spells and purposes.

That BLM is closer to his max recast than that DRK is or something is wrong.

Blue Mage says hi. Magic Hammer, 3 minute recast. New HNM spells will all share a universal 5 minute recast.

As for why I'm here? I'm an Apocalypse DRK. If you wanted to play the "you're not a real DRK, your opinion doesn't matter as much here" card then I would reconsider, because by that logic I belong here more than you.

[Cljader1]

Reading fail!

USED TO BE

Back in the day 300-500 Drain II was massive for HP. SE Zergs ran rampant, and HP over 1700 and the ability to hold hate without engaging while /NIN made you an awesome tank. This was before Cruor and Atma buffs, and back then BLMs were lucky to consistently deal 1k to the endgame mobs. I assure you there were no 5k nukes from your BLMs when Drain II was released. That HP boost would have been monstrous for SE and for tanking if it were able to be kept full time.

Comparing R3 to Drain II is retarded. Completely different spells and purposes.

That BLM is closer to his max recast than that DRK is or something is wrong.

Blue Mage says hi. Magic Hammer, 3 minute recast. New HNM spells will all share a universal 5 minute recast.

As for why I'm here? I'm an Apocalypse DRK. If you wanted to play the "you're not a real DRK, your opinion doesn't matter as much here" card then I would reconsider, because by that logic I belong here more than you.


No one talking about whats drk was like in the lvl 75 cap days, I dont even know why you brought it up. Secondly Blu has alot of valuable useful spells, and drk only has a few with those few spells having 60 sec to 3 min recast timers. Moreover me comparing the spells and abilities of top tier white, elemental, and dark magic is to show that no other job is more limited at using it arsenal like drk is and the restriction are ridiculous.

BTW if you want to measure epeen my drk has a fully upgraded caladbolg, stage 4 relic scythe, and my redemption will be complete in a few days. What I have and what you have is irrelevant and deos nothing too add to the discussion on how to fix the job. This is the last time I will be replying to you directly as the thread has been hijacked long enough

[Return1]

You'd have to be pretty dense to not understand why i was talking about 75cap days when discussing why a spell was designed the way it was. A spell designed in the 75cap days...

With the decay being removed from Absorb stat spells, they'll become reasonable to cast again if we get the duration up to ~2:30-3:00, Endark is already awesome, Drains are both awesome, Absorb-TP is awesome situationally, Dread Spikes is nice, but the 1 minute duration is stupid, New Absorb-Attribute has great potential, to aid all of these, we're getting a Dark Celerity type trait down the road, and SE says they're working to make sure we're the most proficient with Dark Magic Skills.

All of this, plus powerful DD ability outside Abyssea (Passable inside with Apoc), and you're whining because we can't cast as often as a caster that's only job is to cast?

Btw, you have the best second rate weapon for DRK, a level 4 nothing, and an empyrean that's outclassed by the Relic.



Feedback for DRK:

1) Make all physical Weapon Skills in the game have the same chance to critical as a regular swing.

2) Make Scarlet Delirium's damage boost last 3minutes, no one needs 3 minutes to get hit once, use your heads.

3) Make the duration of Dread Spikes at least 3 minutes. the 50% hp cutoff and high, for a Dark Magic, MP cost are already limiting factors enough.

4) Stop adding shitty Arcana specific abilities, no one gives a damn about them, we'd rather have abilities that don't suck. Camate if you see this, word it exactly like that when you tell the devs.

[Urteil]

You'd have to be pretty dense to not understand why i was talking about 75cap days when discussing why a spell was designed the way it was. A spell designed in the 75cap days...

With the decay being removed from Absorb stat spells, they'll become reasonable to cast again if we get the duration up to ~2:30-3:00, Endark is already awesome, Drains are both awesome, Absorb-TP is awesome situationally, Dread Spikes is nice, but the 1 minute duration is stupid, New Absorb-Attribute has great potential, to aid all of these, we're getting a Dark Celerity type trait down the road, and SE says they're working to make sure we're the most proficient with Dark Magic Skills.

All of this, plus powerful DD ability outside Abyssea (Passable inside with Apoc), and you're whining because we can't cast as often as a caster that's only job is to cast?

Btw, you have the best second rate weapon for DRK, a level 4 nothing, and an empyrean that's outclassed by the Relic.



Feedback for DRK:

1) Make all physical Weapon Skills in the game have the same chance to critical as a regular swing.

2) Make Scarlet Delirium's damage boost last 3minutes, no one needs 3 minutes to get hit once, use your heads.

3) Make the duration of Dread Spikes at least 3 minutes. the 50% hp cutoff and high, for a Dark Magic, MP cost are already limiting factors enough.

4) Stop adding shitty Arcana specific abilities, no one gives a damn about them, we'd rather have abilities that don't suck. Camate if you see this, word it exactly like that when you tell the devs.


We should call you Return Hythloday, in reference to Sir Thomas More's Utopia, and the character Raphael Hythloday.



Hythlos meaning nonsense, and Day/Daev meaning to disseminate.

Because you're quite honestly like Raphael, a peddler of nonsense Bullshit.

[Cljader1]

I just like to see real ideas to help fix the job and if SE thinks the job is fine they'll go and add something like Scarlet Delierium. I mean there sacarfice tp for adhanced attack was better than this SD ability they give us. I dont know if we still have time to change SE mind about this ability to either change it completely or change it functionally, but what I do know is each day that passes we lose an opportunity and this ability as is get closer and closer to implementation

[Leonlionheart]

Well, they don't work on Saturday or Sunday from what I've seen.

Though you shouldn't stop trying.

SE: There really needs to be a building period if this is going to work, and not just the first hit. It can still be HP% proportionate, it's just too much to ask for perfect timing before some huge AoE destructive attack that DRK shouldn't even be near anyway. It needs a lot of work.

[Urteil]

Well, they don't work on Saturday or Sunday from what I've seen.

Though you shouldn't stop trying.

SE: There really needs to be a building period if this is going to work, and not just the first hit. It can still be HP% proportionate, it's just too much to ask for perfect timing before some huge AoE destructive attack that DRK shouldn't even be near anyway. It needs a lot of work.


Said perfectly.

[Ophannus]

I'm guessing they tried to make it like an Afflatus Misery for DRK sort of.

[Armangetto]

Theres so many tp moves that are too fast for you to even get SD to go off in time, let alone stun perfectly. The ones you have a chance at actavating it are the slower tp moves and spells.

[SpankWustler]

SE: There really needs to be a building period if this is going to work, and not just the first hit. It can still be HP% proportionate, it's just too much to ask for perfect timing before some huge AoE destructive attack that DRK shouldn't even be near anyway. It needs a lot of work.

I'll second this.

Also, if it's possible to activate Crimson Delirium in time to be hit by an ability, than any sane Dark Knight would probably try to Stun it instead. Particularly considering he or she would be on a job with multiple forms of Stun, one of them being another instant job ability.

[Urteil]

In all honesty.

Stun > Scarlet Delirium.


Lv. 37 move > Lv. 95


I'm seeing a very common recurring theme with DRK, the higher level we get the more our crap stinks.

[Urteil]

Shameless bump.


I see posts in the Dancer Forum and even the Beast Master forums, for POLLS, AND 'WE WANT YOUR FEEDBACK'.



....This issue didn't go away, just because people were polite and shut up for a few days hoping that after you fixed the terrible idea that was Bully.

That you'd fix the terrible mess that is Dark Knight Scarlet Delirium too.

[Mirage]

In all honesty.

Stun > Scarlet Delirium.


Lv. 37 move > Lv. 95


I'm seeing a very common recurring theme with DRK, the higher level we get the more our crap stinks.

Seems to be the case with half the jobs in the game lately, actually.

[Cljader1]

Seems to be the case with half the jobs in the game lately, actually.


Naw Drk is pretty bad, aside from being the worst DD in the game, our uniqueness is crap, we have a bad 2hr, our niche in group set-ups have vanished, and we get crap abilities shoved down our throat. You really cant compare to many jobs to us

[Malamasala]

DRK doesn't have it bad at all from what I can tell. It is roughly in the same situation as all the other 15 jobs that doesn't fit into the "I can tank and DD" WAR / MNK class or "I can heal" WHM class or "I can march/scherzo" BRD class or "I can cover lots of grellow" BLM class.

It isn't near suffering the same stuff as SMN for sure. Like "Is a defensive tank support job, that sucks so much nobody puts you in a tank party" or "Has cure V, but will never be considered a healer anyway" or "Has a lot of spare time to melee, but always kept away from melee gear" not to mention "When pet gear is added, SMN is not on them just because it would make too much sense" or the classic "Expected to use /WHM to heal because the rest of the job is so poor".

Enough derailing, but you should get my point. DRK may be weak compared to other jobs, but it isn't like your melee job is not considered a melee. It would be much worse if people said DRK is a BLM job, because their melee is not worth it, only their nukes. Or if it was "Sub /WHM and heal DRKs! Your jobs sucks and /WHM is better!". Or why not "Don't use G Sword or Scythe, those weapons sucks. Use daggers or clubs instead".

Until you are down to those levels, I don't see the reason to worry. You are a DD focused on G Sword and Scythe that gets to play exactly as you were intended to play. I have a WHM in my LS who just loves playing DRK that he recently leveled. Perhaps being a WHM helps you stop caring about your damage numbers and just say "Hey, this is better than my other job".

[SpankWustler]

Ah, autumn. The time of year when the leaves begin to change, a slightly sweet smell fills the air in all forests, woodland animals begin to store food away, and Mellowy's complaints about Summoner are expressed in more creative ways.

Nature is a thing of beauty and mystery.

[Zoner]

DRK doesn't have it bad at all from what I can tell. It is roughly in the same situation as all the other 15 jobs that doesn't fit into the "I can tank and DD" WAR / MNK class or "I can heal" WHM class or "I can march/scherzo" BRD class or "I can cover lots of grellow" BLM class.

It isn't near suffering the same stuff as SMN for sure. Like "Is a defensive tank support job, that sucks so much nobody puts you in a tank party" or "Has cure V, but will never be considered a healer anyway" or "Has a lot of spare time to melee, but always kept away from melee gear" not to mention "When pet gear is added, SMN is not on them just because it would make too much sense" or the classic "Expected to use /WHM to heal because the rest of the job is so poor".

Enough derailing, but you should get my point. DRK may be weak compared to other jobs, but it isn't like your melee job is not considered a melee. It would be much worse if people said DRK is a BLM job, because their melee is not worth it, only their nukes. Or if it was "Sub /WHM and heal DRKs! Your jobs sucks and /WHM is better!". Or why not "Don't use G Sword or Scythe, those weapons sucks. Use daggers or clubs instead".

Until you are down to those levels, I don't see the reason to worry. You are a DD focused on G Sword and Scythe that gets to play exactly as you were intended to play. I have a WHM in my LS who just loves playing DRK that he recently leveled. Perhaps being a WHM helps you stop caring about your damage numbers and just say "Hey, this is better than my other job".


Oh yea we don't have to worry about subbing /whm or some other subjob we don't like..... because we can't come as dark knight at all. Usually after getting a party as DRK the party leader's first question is: "So what other jobs you got? Oh you got a 68 smn? Sub whm and come as that, you can backup heal."

[Malamasala]

Oh yea we don't have to worry about subbing /whm or some other subjob we don't like..... because we can't come as dark knight at all. Usually after getting a party as DRK the party leader's first question is: "So what other jobs you got? Oh you got a 68 smn? Sub whm and come as that, you can backup heal."

Idiots have never been an argument for changes. Also you aren't even giving the information about what you were doing. Level 90 DRK at an exp party for merits? In that case I can understand them asking if you perhaps had a better job. Level 85 DRK at exp party? Well the leader is an idiot who thinks you are seeking exp on DRK and wants you to swap. Doing a BCNM? Well it is understandable if he wants the best jobs to make it as easy as possible. It is just easy mode people.

As I see it, DRKs are used everywhere as normal, unless the requirement is "Be the best DD", at which point you can only pick WAR or MNK, everything else is bad. Actually we use very few WAR and MNKs on voidwatch these days. We use RNGs and BLMs and SMNs for ranged DD. And since SMN sucks for triggers we usually have 2-3 rangers/cors and 2-3 BLMs, and just 1 SMN, me. Do we have DRKs? sometimes, but not usually. But we don't have SAMs either for example.

Again, you DRKs think you have it bad, but you are just ranked as terrible as the other 15 jobs that aren't best.

[Urteil]

The smart ones of us don't want to ONLY be the best DD.

The argument that this ability is worse than bully before it was fixed to be viable.

That's incredibly bad, if you don't know.


We want useful abilities that will actually be of benefit in some sphere of the game.


In any sphere of game-play, except killing ourselves and killing our party by not stunning AoE moves.

[Urteil]

DRK doesn't have it bad at all from what I can tell. It is roughly in the same situation as all the other 15 jobs that doesn't fit into the "I can tank and DD" WAR / MNK class or "I can heal" WHM class or "I can march/scherzo" BRD class or "I can cover lots of grellow" BLM class.

It isn't near suffering the same stuff as SMN for sure. Like "Is a defensive tank support job, that sucks so much nobody puts you in a tank party" or "Has cure V, but will never be considered a healer anyway" or "Has a lot of spare time to melee, but always kept away from melee gear" not to mention "When pet gear is added, SMN is not on them just because it would make too much sense" or the classic "Expected to use /WHM to heal because the rest of the job is so poor".

Enough derailing, but you should get my point. DRK may be weak compared to other jobs, but it isn't like your melee job is not considered a melee. It would be much worse if people said DRK is a BLM job, because their melee is not worth it, only their nukes. Or if it was "Sub /WHM and heal DRKs! Your jobs sucks and /WHM is better!". Or why not "Don't use G Sword or Scythe, those weapons sucks. Use daggers or clubs instead".

Until you are down to those levels, I don't see the reason to worry. You are a DD focused on G Sword and Scythe that gets to play exactly as you were intended to play. I have a WHM in my LS who just loves playing DRK that he recently leveled. Perhaps being a WHM helps you stop caring about your damage numbers and just say "Hey, this is better than my other job".

Actually the 'club' thing happens all the time, or did happen. In fact if you didn't know some would say that our job is defined by a club.

"DRK is a melee that is supposed to use Magic...sort of."
"But it also has some unique job debuffs!"
"But its really just a melee, that gets crap melee abilities."

All of these are true, SE then gives us backward job traits and parry traits.
So, I don't think you really understand how bad it is. Was. And persists into the present.

[Anathiel]

I lol when non drks go into a drk thread and say "you don't have it that bad". Last time I checked they were asking for drk feedback, not "yeah I know some guys, they play drk on occasion. Let me tell you what *I* think should happen".

[Zoner]

Dark Knights been nerfed more over the history of FFXI then any other job

[Darkwizardzin]

Dark Knights been nerfed more over the history of FFXI then any other job

wasn't rng nerfed heavily once?

[Urteil]

wasn't rng nerfed heavily once?

Yea.--------------