Monk Kick Attack Rate and Random other Facts and Formulas

[Diasetsu]

I wasn't originally planning on posting any data on Kick Attacks and Empyrian Set Bonus until I was completely done, but it appears people have no clue on what the Rate of Kick Attacks are. I did a lot of testing during random times over the summer for 3-6hrs at a time. Was limited to only getting figures off of attacking Fortifications in Crawler's Nest, Eldieme, and Garlaige since Campaign enemies wouldn't attack me at those 3. Between not logging on very much becuase well, it's nice outside this time of year, and whether or not any of those zones were beast contolled, all my testing took about 2 months or so.

For finding basic KA II rate, and KA II + Merits rates I wore no gear with KA+ obviously. I used 17% Haste in gear(Black Belt + Byakko's Haidate) to keep my delay at a comfortable number. Using more haste made it hard sometimes to differentiate rounds as some would blur together, so I found this to be an acceptable amount.

-Kick Attack II with 0 KA merits. 2847 kicks in 21533 rounds= 13.22% with a Confidence Interval of .45%. So 95% chance Kick Attack rate is between 12.77% and 13.67%. Estimating KA II to be 13% Kick Rate.

-Kick Attack II with 5/5 KA merits. Expected to be KA rate +5%. 4229 kicks in 23097 rounds= 18.31% with a CI of .47%. Kick Attack rate is between 17.84% and 18.78%. Estimating KA II with 5/5 KA merits to be 18% Kick Rate.

-Kick Attack II with 5/5 KA merits + Useshi(3KA), Tantra Earring(1KA), Tantra Necklace(2KA), Tantra Hose(7KA), and Shura Sune-ate(4KA). Expected rate= 35%. 4683 kicks in 13476 rounds= 34.75% with a CI of .80%. Kick rate is between 33.95% and 35.55%. Estimating KA II with 5/5 KA merits and 17% KA in gear to be 35%. This 3rd test isn't really needed, but I wanted to make sure that +1 from gear was equal to 1%.

On to Tantra Armor set bonus. I wore Tantra Hose+2, Tanta Necklace, Tantra Earring, and Useshi for all tests of 2-5 pieces. I also wore a pair of Augmented Shura Sune-ate with KA+4 for all tests 2-4 pieces. Format for these is #rnds with 2kicks out of #rnds with 1or2 kicks, so has nothing to do with total attack rounds, just kick rounds. The set bonus allows a 2nd kick during a round that the Kick Attack Job Trait kicks in.

Getting sick of typing so much out which is part of the reason I don't share my findings always, so going to start simplifying results.

-5/5 Tantra Set= 1351/13896= 9.72% with a CI of .49%. Estimating Set Bonus with 5/5 Tantra to be 10% of KA rate.

-4/5 Tantra Set= 798/11495= 6.94% with a CI of .46%. Estimating Set Bonus with 4/5 Tantra to be 7% of KA rate.

-3/5 Tantra Set= 354/8573= 4.13% with a CI of .42%. Estimating Set Bonus with 3/5 Tantra to be 4% of KA rate.

-2/5 Tantra Set= 135/7249= 1.86% with a CI of .31%. Estimating Set Bonus with 2/5 Tantra to be 2% of KA rate.

From testing we see that compared to other Set Bonus, it follows the 2,4,7,10 order much like RDM and NIN, however even at 10% it actually equates to a pathetic 2.5% overall rate when wearing the standard 90MNK equip(KA Traits+Merits+Tantra Hose=25% KA). So for anyone who has been confused by me referring to set bonus being 10%, it is 10%, but not of all attack rounds, since it's based off a secondary factor such as KA.

[Cursed]

2847 kicks in 21533 rounds

needs to be over 9,000... fail



thanks for the info. Kind sucks that KA traits aren't even a full 5%.


Camate! FIX THIS!

[MarkovChain]

Good job because I started doing KA testing today, so that's something I don't have to do. Personnally I used brittle rock, they give 500 round per assault, which seems a lot more practical than fortifications. While we are at it, I'll post my 1 hour 1k sample size, it seems to confirm that the full set bonus as a 10% double kick rate.



Melee Data

Player # Melee Attacks # Melee Rounds Attacks/Round # Extra Attacks
Pimpchan 2328 998 2 360

Player # +1 Rounds # +2 Rounds # +3 Rounds # +4 Rounds # >+4 Rounds
Pimpchan 283 32 3 1 0


makes it ~ 32/998 [3.2%] double kick rate and 283/998 [28.36%]kick rate
(used 40% haste no DA etc but full AF3+2 and no other KA gear)

0.10*25=2.5% vs 3.2% seems correct and 25% vs 28.36% too I guess since 1k sample shlould be +/- 3%.

The average attack per round on the parse is 2328/998=2.33 while the threory predict 2+0.25*1.1=2.275 ...

Anyway good job and you should have shared it earlier instead of claiming "18%" and "10%" without backup.

edit : in pratice it means 27.5% rate in first approximation.

[Monchat]

very good info. Been looking for that. So full tantra set bonus blows?

[MarkovChain]

yes it blows and could make stuff like calmecas trousers appealing, I need to check this. It should make 4/5 + attack gloves number one too.. especially at 95 where the skill on the gloves is just attack..

[Gokku]

95 skill on gloves is dmg+1 unless you use faith you'll still need one of the 2

[Gokku]

base 95 skill + merits = 412 or 45.32+3 dmg
base 95 skill + merits + hands / or faith = 419 or 46.03+3 dmg
base 95 skill + merits + hands and faith = 425 or 46.86+3 dmg * so no increase

[Diasetsu]

What he mean is since you don't gain +1dmg from hands at 95 that it would be better to switch to B. Kotes and gain 15 attack, while keeping Faith, or atleast I'd assume that's what he means. That 15att is gonna be a much bigger upgrade than keeping Tantra Gloves and swapping Faith Torque for some kind of minor increase. Although I'd personally keep hands because losing 16-17acc stinks for some outside harder content. Also in the setup I would use, you'd need the haste from Tantra anyway, as the better swap is dropping Tantra Crown for Ganesha's Mask as it's a larger increase in attack for a smaller acc loss. Also Ganesha's > Tantra now, so don't even have to wait till 95 when the H2H skill + doesn't change DMG tiers.

As a side note concerning something that I'm fussy about just because I am. This isn't directly pointed at you Gokku, since I see sooo many people do it. Why do people always list h2h DMG from skill as (skill x .11)+3? that 3dmg has nothing to do with your skill, and although for example @90 vereth...

43(skill)+3+35(weapon)=43+(35+3) that+3dmg is part of your Weapon, and not Skill because....

43(skill)+3+35(weapon)+11(Dmg from capping fStr)≠43+(35+3)weapon+12(Dmg from fStr).

I at least think that it's pretty widely known that the weird hidden +3dmg effects weapon rank. I'd say they should just get rid of that hidden +3dmg and just raise all H2H weapons by 3, but obviously ya can't since it actually comes from the fact that your bare fisted "weapon" is 3dmg. Anyway I don't really care, but I'm personally anal about it.

[Gokku]

personaly ill be dropping faiths for rancor *or w/e new necks come out* since the 5% crit rate is apply'd to both strikes and its only -1 acc -7 attack.

so your looking at
5% crit rate vs 22 attack 1 acc

if someone wants to math that out go for it.

[Diasetsu]

If you mean Rancor Collar + Tantra Gloves Vs. Faith Torque + B. Kotes you're looking at 5%crit+7att+23acc Vs. 29att+7acc.
So you're looking at:

5% crit rate, 16acc Vs. 22att

Ya don't even need to do math to know Rancor > B.Kotes combo if ya need that acc. However, when accuracy is capped I believe Kotes should actually prevail unless you are attack capped or very close to capped. It's late and I might also just be not thinking correctly but as nice as 5%crit rate is, 22attack is still a lot of attack. I'll math out a realistic scenario when I have time tomorrow if someone else hasn't come along and done so before that. If you are talking Rancor Vs. F.Torque straight up though, Rancor Collar every time. Regardless, keeping Tantra Hands allows you to drop Crown for the G.Mask as I previously stated.

[MarkovChain]

If you need accuracy there are plenty of headgear and neck gear that will surpass full >AF3+2 + rancor. Rancor is cool and all but doesn't increase WS frequency unlike accuracy so it counts as half as good as what it atually is. 5% crit makes it +2.5% damage since you can always WS in the same gear when comparing two different TP setups. On top of my head brisk mask caps your haste and adds accuracy.


If you are easy on accuracy, then ugh ... That mask from voidwatch of fail is probably decent but are you capped on str ? (you need +48 str to cap so endgame probably 150+ str).

If you are uncapped fstr, heafoc mitts + 4/5 AF3+2 seems the best combo. 13 str means 4 DMG(fstr) and 6 attack so it's like AF3+2 gloves with 3 more DMG. If you do endgame you don't cap fstr, safe assumption.

[MarkovChain]

I simulated level 95 MNK against a target with 110 VIT. It's basically normal gear + (Full AF3+2 for TP) vs (4/5 AF3+2 + heafoc mitts). Assuming capped accuracy uncapped attack. Full set comes ahead by about 0.32% >< [since I don't know excatly the next MA tier I kept the one of level 90, and assumed relic horn so that both set don't have delay difference, though 3/1024 haste loss is no big deal]

If I replace heafoc by bandomusha kotes I find the same damage as full set.

Next I compared 4/5 tantra+2 + ganesha's mask (assumed that the 4% applies to all attack from food gear etc, again, RCB assumed and dia3, as well as uncapped fstr : 110 vit target, and capped acc). Full tantra win by 1.1% (mostly from fstr gained)

Meh nothing happened. Full AF3+2 still better.

[Motenten]

First: Updated spreadsheet with new formulations for KA rates and set bonus. Also adjusted so you can set the level between 90 and 95, using the new skill rate scaling.

Brisk Mask should be nearly identical to Ganesha's; the Store TP mostly makes up for the lower attack (not counting the extra accuracy), though Ganesha's would still be better defensively (+HP, no -eva). Both beat Tantra+2 head if you keep fStr capped without the AF3's str; if the str contributes to fStr, they all end up basically on par (not counting acc; if acc matters, Brisk wins by a pretty good margin).

Offensively, Rancor Collar wins over Faith, especially at 95 when it won't gain you another point of base damage over the gloves, unless you need the acc. If you do need the acc, Faith (or better, Agasaya) wins handily. Tantra necklace puts up a mediocre showing in all conditions.

If you keep Faith and swap out hands instead, Bando is a small step up from Tantra hands. However swapping out head for Brisk or Ganesha's is better than swapping out hands for Bando, even ignoring accuracy.

And on fStr, Heafoc's (assuming acc doesn't matter at all) + Tantra head is marginally better than Ganesha's + Tantra hands.


Side note: all this is with Verethragna; don't feel like re-doing it for other weapon delays where the contribution of the Store TP on Brisk may be different.

Overall, I'd go with Rancor + Tantra+2 set for most things, and swap in Brisk Mask and Faith or Agasaya if you need the acc.

[Gokku]

im about to go and do a small sample on VS's crit rate to get an idea of what it is should have about a 5% error margin.

quick test shows with no double/ tripple attack gear atmas of RR GH SS VS has at LEAST a 15% chance to crit. it may be higher but im out of time for right now first and only none Crit smite occured @ WS 16/20 all mobs were trents in abys altepa and had less then 10% hp and i was with 100-110tp at all times on monk/dnc to control tp. this is posted from pg if anyone wants to pick up were i left off. All tp returns are of 5%.


It shouldn't take long to ballpark it.

As soon as you get a non-crit, bump your crit rate up and keep going. For instance:
* 75% Crit rate, see a non-crit pretty quickly (~within 10) -> Put on SQ instead of SS.
* 75% Crit rate, takes a while to see a non-crit (~within 20) -> Use Rancor Collar.
* If you keep getting crits with RR/GH, drop GH down to SQ and see how that goes.

If you can do 50 crit Victory Smites in a row without seeing a non-crit, you can be fairly sure you're within 5% of a 100% crit rate. For "proof" that you're at or within 1% of a 100% crit rate (aka, you've found the crit rate boost), you need to do about 300 crit Victory Smites in a row. For what you're asking though, it seems like within 5% should be good enough.

Obviously don't use Impetus or anything, and keep any crit rate gear locked either on or off. Also, you need to watch your TP return. Missing the first hit would maybe make it look like a non-crit.

[Monchat]

guys there will most likely be better options than rancor necklace, B.kote or haste heads at 95. Not to mention the possibility of other H2H+ gears. wait and see.

[MarkovChain]

Brisk Mask should be nearly identical to Ganesha's

One less reason to do voidwatch (tried it and it's not fun anyway, rancor collar can be bought at the AH). I have the feeling that any new gear belonging to the 5 visible slots that they will release next is going to fail hard.

[MarkovChain]

quick test shows with no double/ tripple attack gear atmas of RR GH SS VS has at LEAST a 15% chance to crit. it may be higher but im out of time for right now first and only none Crit smite occured @ WS 16/20 all mobs were trents in abys altepa and had less then 10% hp and i was with 100-110tp at all times on monk/dnc to control tp. this is posted from pg if anyone wants to pick up were i left off. All tp returns are of 5%.
You saw a non-crit = it means that you crit rate was < 100%. Your atma setup give 50% crit rate, and also you are getting 25% from merit+ Ddex, makes it 75%. In other words you showed that VS's crit rate is < 25% (<=24% since everything is integer) too. If you repeat the test with rancor collar for instance you could pinpoint the interval of the innate VS crit. For instance if you don't see any non-crit with RR+GH+SS and rancor then it means that it is > or = 20%. You showed that you used a headgear with 3% crit rate in the other thread too so that will help putting the crit rate in an interval of length 3% at worst.

[Diasetsu]

guys there will most likely be better options than rancor necklace, B.kote or haste heads at 95. Not to mention the possibility of other H2H+ gears. wait and see.

Say Whaaaaaaaat......
Ear Rare Lv92
H2H+3 Subtle Blow-10
All job


Ring Ex Rare Lv94
VIT+5 H2H+5 Pole Arm+5
All job

[Gokku]

the ring isnt worth it but the earring HELL YES earring + faith + tantra = +1 dmg

[MarkovChain]

The ear would most likely not beat regain,4 att and 4acc.

[Motenten]

Assuming Faith Torque & Tantra +2 hands at lvl 95:

If using Victory Smite, regain Moonshade > H2H earring > Aesir (gain on weaponskills beats gain on melee)

If using Asuran (outside Abyssea; beats Ascetic's), regain Moonshade = H2H earring > Aesir (weaker weaponskill means gain in melee matches gain in weaponskill)

If using Rancor Collar, Aesir > H2H earring.


If you didn't have Faith Torque (eg: using Rancor) or Epona's and considered combining the earring with the H2H ring (+5 skill), the +8 skill on top of the +7 from hands is not quite enough to give another +1 base damage; would be 1 skill short. So ends up being a weaker choice than general attack earrings/rings.

[Gokku]

well the regain earring depends on you beatting wotg , and theres no way 4 attack from an attack 7 earring is topping +1 dmg and its only 1acc less then if you went with regain and acc or 1 attack less then regain and attack.

[Gokku]

what about that 13 sts /dex 10 acc /atk body / double attack + the helm for VS looks like a nice combo

[Gokku]

Azteca body 2 eff
Body Ex Rare Lv95
Defense60 STR+13 DEX+13 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 Double Attack+2%
Sphere:Haste+2% Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

and

Azteca head 2 +1
Head Rare Lv95
Defense32 DEX+13 AGI+13 Haste+7% Regen Combination:Triple Attack+3%
MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

or just the body?

[Motenten]

There's 3 bodies and 2 heads. Head is NQ and HQ, body is NQ, HQ, and 'F' (F has the 10 acc/10 att).

Any one piece individually loses to Tantra set. When combined so that you also get the set bonus of 3% TA, the two NQ Azteca together are a sidegrade to Tantra. With the body upgraded to HQ or F, that pushes the Azteca options ahead.

[Gokku]

wlellim looking @ body F for VS and
Waist Ex Rare Lv94
Defense8 STR+8 Double Attack+3%
WAR, MNK, THF, BST, NIN, DNC

as a replacement to Brier +1

[Cream_Soda]

Replacement? People actually bothered to get that thing to begin with? marginal increase at best absolutely knowing its lifespan would only be that of a couple of months. I knew they were going to add better(and relatively soon, not a "this will be replaced a few years down the line") the day they added it, lol. Never bothered.

[Gokku]

Replacement? People actually bothered to get that thing to begin with? marginal increase at best absolutely knowing its lifespan would only be that of a couple of months. I knew they were going to add better(and relatively soon, not a "this will be replaced a few years down the line") the day they added it, lol. Never bothered.

i went 1/1 on the symth cost me a whopping 200k for a belt that sold for 2mil?

[MarkovChain]

where does this crap come from ? Wait I think i know and I will facepalm.

[Gokku]

dat mining showed 28 new void watch mobs , and 4 new conflux's soooo WoE and Void are a very safe bet on the majority of all the new gear.

[MarkovChain]

Here is my test on level 95 vere ODD rate @ 100% TP

setup : normal TP gear except that I don't use KA shoes (used usukane instead)
target : Brittle rock in assault
method : I get a little under 100 tp then stay engaged until I reach 100 tp thanks to my regain earring. Then I disengage et reengage using WS right away.

result :


3: 8
4: 45
5: 24
6: 16
+^ 7: 361
8: 106
9: 122
10: 101
11: 17
14: 45
15: 12
16: 3
17: 5
18: 15
19: 10
20: 12
Melee Crits
7: 5
8: 6
9: 4
10: 2
13: 16
14: 19
+ 15: 26
^ 16: 25
+ 17: 26
18: 21
19: 9
20: 10
Weaponskills
Victory Smite
58: 1
61: 1
62: 1
64: 3
65: 2
67: 1
68: 1
69: 1
70: 2
+^ 71: 4
72: 1
77: 1
78: 2
80: 1
83: 2
85: 1
89: 1
90: 1
93: 1
109: 1



Under 5 you get kicks only, 6 can be kick or punch. Their number is marginal though so I don't care. ODD doesn't proc on kicks either (as can be checked on the parse, as 12 doesn't exist). There is a gap : 12and 13 never occur, this means that melee hits cap at 11 and ODD range from 14 to 20.

The odd rate is therefore

(45+12+3+5+15+10+12)/(16+361+106+122+101+17.0)=.1410788382

Due to the sample size of 723 the confident interval is +/- 2.5% so make it 15% ODD rate at exactly 100% TP. From this test you can assume the ODD rate was not increased.

[Monchat]

I've got a similar test on Brittle rocks for Spharai 95's triple proc rate, with a better confident interval (3000 melee rounds) with 12.4% +/-1.2% triple proc rate on your main fist. Need around 20k melee rounds to narrow the CI to +/- 0.5% so I'm still working on it. At least with spharai (D48), the max kick is 6 dmg while the lowest fist is 7 so there is no overlap.