Sooo SE actually wants to know the numbers of PS2 users eh?

[Mayoyama]

I just logged into POL, went to press 'play' and another dialog box popped up asking what platforms I play XI on... interesting lol

Could it be that SE finally wants to see what damage they would take if they dropped PS2? lol

[Insaniac]

At first I was like 0.0 but then I was like ^_^

[Rayik]

It's dirt-cheap to upgrade from a PS2 to any other platform this game supports. If PS2 limitations are really holding the game back from continuing, then yes, something needs to be done. I play on 360, and if I found out that new content came to a halt because of my console of choice, I would upgrade to something else so the game can keep going.

This is not a new concept. How many of us "upgraded" from a NES to a SNES(SNES to 64, 64 to Gamecube, Gamecube to Wii, etc) to get the new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, or even FF titles? How many went from PS1 to PS2 in the first place? Times change, platforms upgrade, it's how it is. Been like this since the late 70's-early 80's.

[SpankWustler]

I have a tiny bluebird of happiness within my heart.

I fully expect a horrifying high number of Japanese PS2 users to appear, and for that bluebird of happiness to drop dead and rot atop my diaphragm.

[DebbieGibson]

Yeah except I'm going to lie on all of my accounts and pick PS2 just in case they're checking to see if they should ban me.

[Bubeeky]

I have a tiny bluebird of happiness within my heart.

I fully expect a horrifying high number of Japanese PS2 users to appear, and for that bluebird of happiness to drop dead and rot atop my diaphragm.

That imagery is just awesome lol

[Rayik]

I have a tiny bluebird of happiness within my heart.

I fully expect a horrifying high number of Japanese PS2 users to appear, and for that bluebird of happiness to drop dead and rot atop my diaphragm.

The obsession over PS2's literally scares me. I work at an Anime convention, and seeing the fervor in japanese culture fans(all nationalities) is insane.

It's over, it's obsolete. Enjoy it in your own time, but not while it's holding a Massively Multi-player game back. I love my NES, but it's not getting in the way of an on-going, progressing game that other people play.

[Frost]

This brings up an interesting point. SE can't differentiate between clients on their end?
I may be a bit critical lately on SE, but that strikes me as a little odd.

[Nianny]

First of all... Mayooo! :)
Second, I was a bit surprised myself when I logged in and was asked to answer the survey. This leaves me curious about what's to come.

[Airget]

Yeah except I'm going to lie on all of my accounts and pick PS2 just in case they're checking to see if they should ban me.

The fact you made this post already leaves you open to be banned since you are suggesting that you play XI on the same computer. You are better off being honest about which platform you are playing on since if you don't you are just skewing the survey to be inaccurate. It's not like you have to answer the question for all your accounts, since you are just one person answer it once for pc then leave the rest unanswered.

as for current pricing on ps3/360 one would think now is the perfect time for a console change, perhaps if SE is really willing to reviatalize this game and add a new expansion pack they'll offer an incentive to buy a new console and play it on a different system. From a $210-320 investement for a new system now, it seems like this is the perfect time to switch over, of course if you wait it is very possible the price will continue to drop.

But ya, hopefully we'll get some good news in a week or two I"m curious as to what kind of news this survey will lead to. Heck XIV a game that's been free for a year would earn them about 180 a head. <_< If they were willing to take that investment into giving discounts for users of ps2 to switch over to a new console they would then at least have the possibility to allowing XI to continue it's life without having to be held back from the size of the ps2 hard drive and it's system.

[SpankWustler]

Yeah except I'm going to lie on all of my accounts and pick PS2 just in case they're checking to see if they should ban me.

My tiny bluebird of happiness just developed a slight cough, and it's all your fault!

[Krysten]

serious let ps2 diiiiiiiieeeee

[Inafking]

Let's recap the problem with the PS2 platform:

1. POL PS2 software not even implemented in the EU.

2. US PS2s do not have internal hard drive support. (Some do, but they're older models they don't make anu more.) POL does not support external hard drives. So in the US, you can not buy a PS2 that plays FFXI unless you find one used.

3. US PS3s do not have the PS2 BIOS to play PS2 games. (Some do, but they're older models they don't make anu more.) And even the ones that do, the PS2 emulation is buggy. Still more reliable than 360 but more prone to crashing than original ps2 and PC. So in the US, can't find a PS3 that will play FFXI unless you buy used.

4. In the US, Square no longer makes PS2 software. The used software is hella expensive and good luck finding it.

Conclusion:
PS2 support is JP onry. No hardware, no software, no usage. As much as I love my PS2s that do play the software, I'd gladly ditch their support for a naitive PS3 client or more expansions by ditching the platform all together. All that being said, it's been a fantastic platform to develop the game. FFXI is larger than WoW in terms of explorable surface area but ¼ the size as far as instalation space. That's an amazing feat that makes this game viable for console platforms without a lot of storage space. Now that such a feat has been achieved, moving the size limit from 10 to 20 gb would allow for much more expansion and still take up less % of the HDD when the 10gb policy was originally created. PS2 was a great platform, but it's time to move on.

[Shadowsong]

legacy coding says wut?

[Drivont]

It's dirt-cheap to upgrade from a PS2 to any other platform this game supports. If PS2 limitations are really holding the game back from continuing, then yes, something needs to be done. I play on 360, and if I found out that new content came to a halt because of my console of choice, I would upgrade to something else so the game can keep going.

This is not a new concept. How many of us "upgraded" from a NES to a SNES(SNES to 64, 64 to Gamecube, Gamecube to Wii, etc) to get the new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, or even FF titles? How many went from PS1 to PS2 in the first place? Times change, platforms upgrade, it's how it is. Been like this since the late 70's-early 80's.

This ^


123456789

[Arcon]

This brings up an interesting point. SE can't differentiate between clients on their end?
I may be a bit critical lately on SE, but that strikes me as a little odd.

When the official forums opened and I was still naive, I supported SE firmly. I knew they had some quirks, but I thought it was in good conscience and I thought (or hoped) they were working on them (somehow). But lately the dishonesty in their answers to the community and the excuses they made pretty much ruined my confidence in them, so this isn't that shocking to me.

This, however, if it actually does mean what I think (or hope) it means, will change everything. I'm ready to forgive everything they put us through if they remove the PS2 from their supported architecture lineup. 500 inventory slots please. Then (maybe) I can gear my PLD again.

[Runespider]

This brings up an interesting point. SE can't differentiate between clients on their end?

I'm sure they can but they are asking which platforms you use, not which you are using now.

If everyone they checked right now was PC that still doesn't mean there would be a huge ragesfest if they removed the ability to play on other platforms.

I'm all for phasing out PS2, letting ps3 take its place but thats why they are obviously asking.

[Twille]

I hope and pray that this is the first step to phasing out the PS2. GO SE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kagato]

This is excellent news.

The PC version can be played on any run-of-the-mill PC now. I bought a $500 laptop earlier this year for school and even that can run FFXI at max settings at a solid framerate. It can even run The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion at mid-settings.

Many people also have a 360 too and picking up FFXI for that is easy as well.

But you wanna know which version is hard to find these days? THE PS2! XD

[RAIST]

Just hope they keep the survey up for several months. A lot of people are going to be kicked out of the game because of snafus with the transfer and/or billing system preventing them from getting in game until they fix things with the new payment options coming in the fall. IDK if these people will even be logging in at all, so they won't be able to take the survey until they manage to fix their account so they can get into FFXI. So, they may be missing out on players who would otherwise be playing at the moment that (for whatever reason) can't/won't play until the mid/late fall, and so aren't logging in and getting the survey pop-up.

If SE could add the survey to the forums as well, they could get a larger sample. If they do though, they would need to somehow flag accounts that already voted through POL to prevent them from voting again here to keep the results accurate.

[Helel]

Just give free PS3's to those still playing on PS2. No problem!

[Kimara]

Just give free PS3's to those still playing on PS2. No problem!

lol :3! I'm sure that most the people that play on PS2 still have PS3 or Xbox360 anyway. I know my husband played on PS2 for a long time even though he had a computer and a xbox360 to choose from and now a ps3. He plays on PC now, I've always played on PC.

[Kinrohk]

Just get rid of PS2. Bump XI to XIV graphics :P.(Personally I think they way over complicated things with XIV which is why it's terrible. They could have made XI-2 with the XIV graphics and I'd put money down people would be willing to play it all over again with a little bit of new story and better graphics alone.)

I guess thats sort of off topic, but I'm so down to kill the PS2... It doesn't even run that well anymore anyway. And you can't participate in anything with an alliance without killing the PS2 anyway. Die, die, die!!!!!!

[Meyi]

Don't they have that kind of information already? Kind of strange that they need to take a survey...

[Kinrohk]

Perhaps they're just disguising what they're really asking. (Hey, does anyone really give a #$@! about PS2?)

[Rosina]

we don't know why we got the survey. Best to ask for more info b4 speculating. And 500 slot inventory is farfetched, even then ppl would complain for more.

[Rosina]

Just get rid of PS2. Bump XI to XIV graphics :P.(Personally I think they way over complicated things with XIV which is why it's terrible. They could have made XI-2 with the XIV graphics and I'd put money down people would be willing to play it all over again with a little bit of new story and better graphics alone.)

I guess thats sort of off topic, but I'm so down to kill the PS2... It doesn't even run that well anymore anyway. And you can't participate in anything with an alliance without killing the PS2 anyway. Die, die, die!!!!!!
No ff14 player wants ffxi-2. Heck most ff14 player trashes on they ways ff11 is now with the speed leveling.

[svengalis]

I thought it was weird that they don't know how many are are still on PS2. Anyone know how many copies the PS2 version sold?

[Vold]

No ff14 player wants ffxi-2. Heck most ff14 player trashes on they ways ff11 is now with the speed leveling.You're right, because all 30k or less of them aren't the five hundred thousand that bought it to date expecting FFXI-2.

[FrankReynolds]

No ff14 player wants ffxi-2. Heck most ff14 player trashes on they ways ff11 is now with the speed leveling.

I would buy FFXI-2 exactly as described above.

[Leonlionheart]

we don't know why we got the survey. Best to ask for more info b4 speculating.

It's far fetched to think the survey is anything but gauging how many people still use PS2.

The game is reaching 10gigs, which is the allotted space any game could possibly have on the PS2 HDD. Sony would have to change this, and they dropped PS2 support 3? years ago.

If that's not enough proof that SE is fed up with supporting this decade old system that is completely undermining them, then I don't know what is.

Like I said in the other thread, I think SE would make more money by dropping PS2 support than they would with all those subscriptions combined.

[RAIST]

I would buy FFXI-2 exactly as described above.



yeah.. they made it just enough like XI to make me want to check it out....but just different enough to drive me nuts and get frustrated with it.

Luckily, I was able to figure that out during beta and came back to XI....probly won't go back to 14 again until I'm ready to drop XI completely.

[Limecat]

I'm sort of surprised they didn't code it to allow automatic platform auditing.

[Twille]

I'm sort of surprised they didn't code it to allow automatic platform auditing.

Because one account can be accessed via any of those systems. Just because i'm on my PC now, doesn't mean I won't log in on my 360 later on in the day.

I wish I had more accounts to go click "PC" for, lol.

[Krysten]

ps2 shoudl died out with Xbox 1

But Sony never had faith in there own product and coudlnt let go of its old cash cow

[DebbieGibson]

My tiny bluebird of happiness just developed a slight cough, and it's all your fault!

Don't worry, I picked PC on all 4 of mine.

[Mirage]

I don't even understand why they'd need this. Can't they just check which client people logs on with?

[Tsuneo]

I don't even understand why they'd need this. Can't they just check which client people logs on with?
They probably can check which client you are currently using. Whether or not they can check which clients you use is another story. I suppose some people play on multiple platforms and that is what they want information about hence being able to check multiple platforms.

[Cursed]

SE is about to take ol' yeller out the back behind the barn and set it free.
They're just looking to us for reassurance that they're doing the right thing.
that's what this survey is about.

You do what you have to do SE. We all support you. Good dogs go to hell.
what?



edit: if y'all wussy out pass me the shotgun, I'll gladly set this ol' bitch free.

[RAIST]

Yeah.. the more I think about it, it's going to be hard to put a lot of faith in the results of the poll. So many different ways the results can get skewed, guess it's kind of a no-win situation, depending on just what the purpose of the survey is.

If they want just to see how many of each client are installed, then tracking the MAC address or other unique ID during the update check could be one route to take I guess--but that would require an updated client and then tracking the logins over time and such. May be more involved then they want to invest.

If they want to see some comparison of non-PS2 users vs. PS2 only users to determine the impact of dropping PS2 support, then tracking per account like they are doing works I guess. John Doe uses PS2 and PC--so he may not be impacted as badly by a PS2 drop as Jane that only plays on PS2. If that is what is up, I think some more direct questions in addition to this one question may be in order, more like:

Which platform(s) do you play FFXI on?
<check boxes for each platform>

If you play only on PS2, is another platform available for installing FFXI on?
<>yes <>no <>not applicable

Would you be willing to migrate from PS2 to an alternate platform if installation media were provided at a reduced cost?
<> yes <>no <>not applicable

If not, what would be the largest objection to migration:
<> no alternate platform available <> cost of installation media
<>complexity/inconvenience of re-installing/updating <>not applicable

That way SE could see just who is able/willing to migrate, and if not, what kind of issues would hold users back from migrating.

[FrankReynolds]

Step 1. Make everyone take Innocent looking poll

Step 2. Don't even look at the data

Step 3. Announce that according to the poll, nobody plays on PS2 anymore

Step 4. Discontinue support for PS2 and offer free download of PC media to anyone who has purchased a copy of the PS2 version.

Step 5. Carefully police your community site and remove all angry posts by the few angry PS2 players that actually post

Step 6. Get a tattoo of the PS2 controllers on your wrists to remind you of the chains you broke free from.

[Meyi]

Step 6. Get a tattoo of the PS2 controllers on your wrists to remind you of the chains you broke free from.

Ohhh, so the PS2 was what was keeping Promathia chained? I see!

[Mirage]

They probably can check which client you are currently using. Whether or not they can check which clients you use is another story. I suppose some people play on multiple platforms and that is what they want information about hence being able to check multiple platforms.
I'm no programmer, but to me it seems very unlikely that the server wouldn't check which version of the client a specific user logs in with each time this happens. It might not log this data automatically all the time, but I would "guess" that it wouldn't be a large ordeal to make the servers log which clients are used for which accounts for a limited period of time. The data collected from this would easily show how many subscribers logged on with only PC clients, only PS2 clients, both (and the distribution between the two), or any other possible combination.

The only thing you'd really need a poll for is to find out how many people would be all right with changing their platform, and what would be necessary to do for them to do so (like a free game download, for example).

[Tohihroyu]

Too bad 99.9% of PC players RELY on windower & bots to play cause apparently vanilla ffxi is too hard QQ

Edit: And god forbid they can't play on a TEST server without it e_e

[Cursed]

Too bad 99.9% of PC players RELY on windower & bots to play cause apparently vanilla ffxi is too hard QQ

lolbots in 2011?
def a umad ps2'er

[AldielQuetz]

I approve of this, and throw the entire weight of all mankind living in the 21st century behind this saying:

GO BUY AN XBOX, KTHX.

I thought people in Japan prided themselves on having the newest and greatest technology. Live up to the hype!

[Cursed]

I approve of this, and throw the entire weight of all mankind living in the 21st century behind this saying:

GO BUY AN XBOX, KTHX.

I thought people in Japan prided themselves on having the newest and greatest technology. Live up to the hype!

yeah gonna go ahead and delete this before a moderator reads it and decides they dont like me



relax im just kidding

[Economizer]

GO BUY AN XBOX, KTHX.

Yes, but what if Xbox users are on the 20G hard drive instead of the larger 120G? Perhaps the platform could open up a bit more time, but we'd still get hit by space limits that aren't that much bigger eventually, unless SE was going to totally put its foot down about keeping FFXI growing.

Still, a plan over the next few years to depreciate PS2 support would be a major stride forward towards being able to depreciate any platform that stands in the way of FFXI.

[katoplepa]

let's hope this poll is in preparation of level 99
level 99 must come with a new real expansion, with new areas as well... without the ps2, this game could go ahead more and more... my hope is a scenario with Abyssea made to level up your jobs, and a completely new areas/world to explore designed for the levels99, something like to a large title on pol.com "you 99, now you ready for the new world"

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090401054320/ffxi/images/6/63/CompleteWorldMap.jpg

[FrankReynolds]

Yes, but what if Xbox users are on the 20G hard drive instead of the larger 120G? Perhaps the platform could open up a bit more time, but we'd still get hit by space limits that aren't that much bigger eventually, unless SE was going to totally put its foot down about keeping FFXI growing.

Still, a plan over the next few years to depreciate PS2 support would be a major stride forward towards being able to depreciate any platform that stands in the way of FFXI.

lol My 20 gig 360 only has like 3 spare gigs atm. :P

[FrankReynolds]

Too bad 99.9% of PC players RELY on windower & bots to play cause apparently vanilla ffxi is too hard QQ

Edit: And god forbid they can't play on a TEST server without it e_e

your signature below
// *******************************************************************************
One of the proud 1% of PC players that dose not rely on Windower or bots to play the game, TAS is only for Kaizo Mario or other challenging rom hacks not FFXI! The only way I enhance gameplay is .dat mods.
// ***********************************************************************

.... why does your signature say that you do .DAT mods? Mighty foolish for a guy who is bad mouthing PC players for no apparent reason on an official forum don't ya think? or were you just trolling the PC players in hopes of saving your PS2?

[Leonlionheart]

Step 1. Make everyone take Innocent looking poll

Step 2. Don't even look at the data

Step 3. Announce that according to the poll, nobody plays on PS2 anymore

Step 4. Discontinue support for PS2 and offer free download of PC media to anyone who has purchased a copy of the PS2 version.

Step 5. Carefully police your community site and remove all angry posts by the few angry PS2 players that actually post

Step 6. Get a tattoo of the PS2 controllers on your wrists to remind you of the chains you broke free from.

This. Is. Brilliance.

Hope they do that, whether you wrote it with sarcasm and discontent or not!

[Limecat]

If this does lead to the end of the PS2 client, SE should make a new firework and send a stack of it to everyone who answered PS2 on the poll. When used it places a little PS2 on the ground in the game that suddenly bursts into flames and disappears.

[Shiyo]

If this does lead to the end of the PS2 client, SE should make a new firework and send a stack of it to everyone who answered PS2 on the poll. When used it places a little PS2 on the ground in the game that suddenly bursts into flames and disappears.
LOL that made me laugh irl, nice.

[Frost]

I don't get it, it's been nearly seven years since a PS2 was in production that you could even install FFXI on...

And while they're afraid of losing customers that currently exist, they're scaring away customers that could exist.

And I'd bet that the greater majority of "PS2 Users" already play on another client.

[Kari]

I'm no programmer, but to me it seems very unlikely that the server wouldn't check which version of the client a specific user logs in with each time this happens. It might not log this data automatically all the time, but I would "guess" that it wouldn't be a large ordeal to make the servers log which clients are used for which accounts for a limited period of time. The data collected from this would easily show how many subscribers logged on with only PC clients, only PS2 clients, both (and the distribution between the two), or any other possible combination.

The only thing you'd really need a poll for is to find out how many people would be all right with changing their platform, and what would be necessary to do for them to do so (like a free game download, for example).

It's overall better to make a real survey, no matter how much data they could have, or already have, collected automatically.

Allows the players to know they decided to take the survey and let them feel involved.
Allows players to let SE know, "Hey, I may not have logged in on my <system> in 4 months, but I'll likely be using it in the near future along with my <current system>!"
Allows players to let SE know that we may have played on PS2 2 years ago, but we stopped.


Too bad 99.9% of PC players RELY on windower & bots to play cause apparently vanilla ffxi is too hard QQ

Edit: And god forbid they can't play on a TEST server without it e_e

Nobody cares.
And using Windower/TPPs to reduce annoyance doesn't mean the game is "hard" without it.
In fact, if PS2 is dropped, I could easily see most of the cosmetic benefits we use Windower for being implemented into the game itself. [Ability to see party/alliance TP, alliance MP, mob HP, distance from target, recast timers on screen, maybe even "macro sets" with auto-swaps.]

I hope for good results of this survey, regardless.

[Dragoy]

Yeah except I'm going to lie on all of my accounts and pick PS2 just in case they're checking to see if they should ban me.The fact you made this post already leaves you open to be banned since you are suggesting that you play XI on the same computer.
You know you can basically have more than one windoze running on one computer, and thus, you could run more than one FFXI on the same computer, without manipulating the client at all and essentially it would be just like having two or more computers or consoles running the game.

It is unfortunately true though that most who do that are indeed using those 'other ways' but... I'm just saying that it does not necessarily mean that. ^^;


Anyways, in my opinion, the survey does not likely mean anything to us players, and even less likely will they be announcing the results to us. Not impossible though, but that's just my guess.

I do hope they are basically asking the players which they would rather use, and that it would actually mean something for the future... Not like they couldn't get the info themselves, and even less likely they would trust a survey like this to be too accurate for much.

[FrankReynolds]

This. Is. Brilliance.

Hope they do that, whether you wrote it with sarcasm and discontent or not!

Not really sarcasm. I really hope they do that. They seem to be moving towards a streamlined FFXI staff. Outsourcing billing, Moving testing Duties to the player base.... Cutting PS2 support / programming / costs... all good ways to keep the game profitable.

[Runespider]

Not really sarcasm. I really hope they do that. They seem to be moving towards a streamlined FFXI staff. Outsourcing billing, Moving testing Duties to the player base.... Cutting PS2 support / programming / costs... all good ways to keep the game profitable.

Sadly if anything does come of this, I think this will turn out to be the real reason lol Cutting programming costs, I doubt they will build FFXI up beyond the weakest link after dropping it. We have a bare bones dev team as it is.

If done right dropping ps2 support could really boost FFXI, Square don't have much history of doing things right though.

[Jile]

Out of curiosity..... While most posts I've seen on the English forums are pro-phaseout, how are the Japanese forum's overall opinion of this poll and the potential ps2 phaseout?

[Leonlionheart]

Yeah the JP feedback is probably where SE'll truly decide whether to drop or not.

Still, the only way we're getting new zones is if we say goodbye to PS2!

Maybe then they'll finally integrate some windower features into the GUI!

[Miiyo]

It's dirt-cheap to upgrade from a PS2 to any other platform this game supports.

More than likely, if they're still playing on PS2, they're dirt-broke. You assume too much to think people can just easily upgrade. As a gaming company trying to make money you can't make assumptions like that. Killing off ps2 is killing off customers with no promise of profit by doing so.

Be if far from me to expect simpletons to have the vision to comprehend such an idea.

[Unctgtg]

If they gave me another expansion I would move to PS3 or PC. And no I am not dirt broke, I have a PS3, Xbox and 2 laptops and a PC. I just have always played on PS2, and the one time I played on PC I was hacked.

[Kari]

The way I see it:
1> Phase out PS2
2> People who play on PS2 come to rage on the forums
3> They have to have a computer to rage on the forums
4> Any computer made in the past forever can play this damn game
5> Give them free download

Win.

[FrankReynolds]

The way I see it:
1> Phase out PS2
2> People who play on PS2 come to rage on the forums
3> They have to have a computer to rage on the forums
4> Any computer made in the past forever can play this damn game
5> Give them free download

Win.

There is also the fact that they have to pay people to Program PS2 and test etc. I don't know what programmers make in japan, But I can imagine its a fair chunk of change. How many PS2 players does it take to pay off the annual salary of one programmer?

[Arcon]

More than likely, if they're still playing on PS2, they're dirt-broke. You assume too much to think people can just easily upgrade. As a gaming company trying to make money you can't make assumptions like that. Killing off ps2 is killing off customers with no promise of profit by doing so.

Be if far from me to expect simpletons to have the vision to comprehend such an idea.

The price increase from the payment system change has lost them a lot more customers than binning the PS2 ever would. And if people are too broke to afford a PC to play this, they're too broke to play FFXI, period. You can buy a PC that will play this for four month's worth of FFXI payments, so that excuse doesn't fly very far.

[FrankReynolds]

The price increase from the payment system change has lost them a lot more customers than binning the PS2 ever would. And if people are too broke to afford a PC to play this, they're too broke to play FFXI, period. You can buy a PC that will play this for four month's worth of FFXI payments, so that excuse doesn't fly very far.

I highly doubt that you can buy a computer for $45. However..... I also doubt that there is anyone out there that has been playing an MMORPG for like what is it? 5 years since PS2 production ended....and never bothered to pick up a PC or xbox 360.

EDIT: to be clear. I think people who still play on PS2 are just doing it because they are lazy, or they think that's how it should be played, or they are just used to it. I remember trying to figure out how to get my 360 control to work with the PC version for the first time.... made me wanna pull out my hair.

[Runespider]

If they gave me another expansion I would move to PS3 or PC. And no I am not dirt broke, I have a PS3, Xbox and 2 laptops and a PC. I just have always played on PS2, and the one time I played on PC I was hacked.

Vast majority play on PC and have never been hacked, infact if you are so useless with pcs to get hacked in the first place you would of alraedy have your account taken when you entered your password etc in the community site for your FFXIAH gear profile to show up.

Anyway, the things Square have done in the last year or two lost them more players than phasing out PS2. Salvage bans, secured CC, new payment options etc.

[Arcon]

I highly doubt that you can buy a computer for $45. However..... I also doubt that there is anyone out there that has been playing an MMORPG for like what is it? 5 years since PS2 production ended....and never bothered to pick up a PC or xbox 360.

You can, actually, although I play closer to $100 in four months. But yeah, what you said. If you're too broke to pick up a PC from early this millenium, then you can't play FFXI.

[Unctgtg]

Well the salvage ban was alright with me, got rid of the damn cheaters

[Kyohyi]

Hi everyone,

Just to provide a different perspective, I regularly play FFXI on my PS3, since that's my primary gaming system. However - this means that I'm playing the PS2 version, since there is no native PS3 FFXI client. (I have one of the 60 gig North American launch PS3 consoles with the PS2 in hardware).


This means that, yes, I do have most (if not all) of the PS2 discs and expansion packs. I had to use the PS2 discs - including the disc that came with the PS2 hard drive - to install FFXI on the PS3.

There are no significant issues with the PS3 hardware emulation of FFXI - that I've discovered anyway. For the most part, it works just like the PS2 client but with a very slight upscale/smoothing and with PS3 specific features (i.e. wireless support, wireless controllers, etc.) enabled.

From time to time, I do fire up FFXI on my old PS2 as well. I try to keep that current in case my PS3 dies - those launch consoles are kind of fragile now.

And - before you ask - I also play on the PC and the 360 from time to time. But - it's the PS3 (PS2) version I keep going back to.

If SquareEnix were to release a native PS3 version, then I'd be happy with dropping PS2 support, I guess. However - they've indicated in interviews that they don't plan on doing this. (Square Enix Looking Into Final Fantasy XI Port For PlayStation Vita, But Not PS3 (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/12/square-enix-looking-into-playstation-vita-port-for-playstation-vita-but-not-ps3/))

That's another thing about this survey - I wonder if this has any bearing on the PlayStation Vita port? Like - possibly migrating the PS2/PS3 users to the Vita or something?

-kyo >^_^<

[Kagato]

Considering FFXI can run at max settings at a smooth framerate on any ordinary store-bought PC or laptop these days for the past several years, I'd say moving to the PC version is more than possible. In fact, I'd say it's impossible NOT to be able to do so.

[xiozen]

It's dirt-cheap to upgrade from a PS2 to any other platform this game supports. If PS2 limitations are really holding the game back from continuing, then yes, something needs to be done. I play on 360, and if I found out that new content came to a halt because of my console of choice, I would upgrade to something else so the game can keep going.

I personally play on the PC... always have; that being said however I cannot understand how your comment "It's dirt-cheap to upgrade..." has not been modified to read: "It's dirt cheap [for me] to upgrade..."

I'm sure no one can speak for anyone else's financial obligations or economic standing which may or may not determine whether or not an upgrade is feasible. Because it's dirt cheap for you, doesn't necessarily mean it'll be dirt cheap for someone else.

SE's survey asking the basic question, makes perfect sense to me as a starting point; it would be detrimental to any business (regardless of type) to add a financial hardship to a large percentage of its player base. So first off, find out exactly how much of your player base would "potentially" be impacted by a forced upgrade...

Let's try not to generalize to the entire population--keep an open mind. :)

[CrystalWeapon]

I personally play on the PC... always have; that being said however I cannot understand how your comment "It's dirt-cheap to upgrade..." has not been modified to read: "It's dirt cheap [for me] to upgrade..."

I'm sure no one can speak for anyone else's financial obligations or economic standing which may or may not determine whether or not an upgrade is feasible. Because it's dirt cheap for you, doesn't necessarily mean it'll be dirt cheap for someone else.

SE's survey asking the basic question, makes perfect sense to me as a starting point; it would be detrimental to any business (regardless of type) to add a financial hardship to a large percentage of its player base. So first off, find out exactly how much of your player base would "potentially" be impacted by a forced upgrade...

Let's try not to generalize to the entire population--keep an open mind. :)

Maybe I'm just an asshole, but if someone can't throw down $100~$200 to get a computer then maybe xi should be the least of their worries. I know personally if my cash were that low I wouldn't be spending money for a mmo every month.

[Runespider]

Maybe I'm just an asshole, but if someone can't throw down $100~$200 to get a computer then maybe xi should be the least of their worries. I know personally if my cash were that low I wouldn't be spending money for a mmo every month.

Playing an MMO is one of the cheapest things you can do as a passtime, unless you want to stare at the wall.

[Insaniac]

My friend refuses to stop playing on his PS2 just out of tradition. I think this is the only thing holding most people back from switching over. Windower aside the PC version of this game is 50x better than the PS2 version. I started on the PS2 and eventually moved to a crappy laptop so I could play at work during downtime. My brain almost melted when I saw how much better it was. I thought to myself "wtf have I been doing playing on PS2". I haven't updated my PS2 version of ffxi in almost 3 years.

[Zemarin]

I play ps2 version I'mma prolly quit if they get rid of it.

1) no body should be telling ppl what they can afford, there's no guarantee that every ps2 player can find pc/laptop for under 100$ that plays this game without problem. If ppl really wanna go that route; Then how about SE provide it's ps2 payerbase with cheap laptops on their site that guarantee to play the game and come with support service for 100$ bucks and not a CENT more? (its not going to happen cuz its UN-REALISTIC)

Also ppl forget this silly thing called time... that we kinda live in, its alot easier/stable to pay 13 bux a month that you can cancell if need be... rather then paying 200 dollars all at once that could effect other bills or what not also in order to build up that 200bux one would must stop playing FFXI (or something else) for that amount of time and you know the basic rule of FFXI... if u miss out on something while alot of ppl are actually doing it, you may never EVER get it done *points at assault/salvage/Einherjar*.

And one may ask "Do ppl poor play this game?" PROBABLY I MEAN HOW MANY PPL LOST THEIR JOBS IN AMERICA AGAIN?

2) Some ppl simply just dont want to play the pc version for whatever personal reason..
In fact that's one of the reason i got this game, because it was on a CONSOLE, if it wasn't i prolly just woulda never invested time/money in this game to begin with. To take it away is rude. I don't like to play games windowed on my pc especially if they slow down my speed/crash my pc.. Regardless of how pretty they look, considering my dual core inspiron doesn't even have a graphic card, but a chip set I'm sure this game will slow down my pc and/or crash no matter how old it may be.

Anyways, just tossing it out there, its very easy for computer geeks to jump on a forum and try to analyze why ppl don't play the pc version.... but honestly whatever reason some may not play FFXI on pc simply cannot be easily remedied just cause "*insert name*says so"... please; get real. IF Se wants to cut off PS2 users they might as well just do it and get it over with, they are simply doing the survey to guage how "big" this loss will be... I'm just waiting for the outcome.

[FrankReynolds]

Honestly, the only thing the poll should ask is:

1. Do you play on a PS2 version of the game?

2. Do you have access to a computer that you could play on instead?

[Twille]

PS2 users have no argument based on the fact that a PC capable of playing FFXI is extremely cheap.
A monthly fee for FFXI + a monthly fee for internet service is equal to a significant portion of the money required for an FFXI compatible PC.
If you can't afford a PC to play FFXI, you should rethink spending your obviously scarce funds on video games and internet every month.

[Zemarin]

PS2 users have no argument based on the fact that a PC capable of playing FFXI is extremely cheap.
A monthly fee for FFXI + a monthly fee for internet service is equal to a significant portion of the money required for an FFXI compatible PC.
If you can't afford a PC to play FFXI, you should rethink spending your obviously scarce funds on video games and internet every month.

You


I play ps2 version I'mma prolly quit if they get rid of it.

1) no body should be telling ppl what they can afford, there's no guarantee that every ps2 player can find pc/laptop for under 100$ that plays this game without problem. If ppl really wanna go that route; Then how about SE provide it's ps2 payerbase with cheap laptops on their site that guarantee to play the game and come with support service for 100$ bucks and not a CENT more? (its not going to happen cuz its UN-REALISTIC)

Also ppl forget this silly thing called time... that we kinda live in, its alot easier/stable to pay 13 bux a month that you can cancell if need be... rather then paying 200 dollars all at once that could effect other bills or what not also in order to build up that 200bux one would must stop playing FFXI (or something else) for that amount of time and you know the basic rule of FFXI... if u miss out on something while alot of ppl are actually doing it, you may never EVER get it done *points at assault/salvage/Einherjar*.

And one may ask "Do ppl poor play this game?" PROBABLY I MEAN HOW MANY PPL LOST THEIR JOBS IN AMERICA AGAIN?

2) Some ppl simply just dont want to play the pc version for whatever personal reason..
In fact that's one of the reason i got this game, because it was on a CONSOLE, if it wasn't i prolly just woulda never invested time/money in this game to begin with. To take it away is rude. I don't like to play games windowed on my pc especially if they slow down my speed/crash my pc.. Regardless of how pretty they look, considering my dual core inspiron doesn't even have a graphic card, but a chip set I'm sure this game will slow down my pc and/or crash no matter how old it may be.

Me

When it comes down to what ppl prefer to play it on cost is not a reasonable argument, and when it comes to cost, if you haven't PROVED that something is economically priced and available to everyone, you can't even make a point on that matter. a cheap pc (300 bux~) = about 23 ( 2 yrs) months of FFXI. It doesn't matter if the pc can run FFXI at all as much as it matters how reliable the pc is at doing it.

For you to proclaim that you can get some cheap pc that runs FFXI perfectly for less then half a years worth of FFXI's monthly cost (based on one char about 78 dollars) and supply that to everyone, I would like to see it. Instead of ppl commenting on how cheap and easy it is to get a pc based on FFXI's monthly cost.

It's lies, its ignorant, and makes ppl look stupid.

Also I think most ppl on this board neglect the fact that if someone were to buy a pc nine times out of ten they are going to want one that can do more then just play this game, most ppl purchase consoles with the intent of only playing a game where as a pc is not such the case.. anyways im done reading this mess.

[Rearden]

You can get a PC to play this game for free more than likely. You don't even need a graphics card (technically). An onboard GPU would work just fine.

[FrankReynolds]

On a side note to the OMFG its no fair I have to buy a PC people...

I had to replace scratched game discs 4 times over the years in order to play it on XBOX (at a cost of $40ish a piece). Not to mention the burnt out DVD drive it caused in my 360 because it spun constantly.

Cry me a river.

[Twille]

The point is, there is no excuse to hold back FFXI due to the PS2 other than peoples stubbornness. Quite frankly, I could care less if people prefer the PS2. It's holding back the game and needs to go. I sincerely hope SE is taking steps in this direction.

[Zemarin]

Ps2 is 10 yrs old? so is FFXI deal with it; if they wanna get rid of Ps2 they should just get rid of FFXI and make everyone go play 14~ I wonder why they haven't.

Seriously who walks out and buys a 10 yr old game?

Why should those who invested in PS2 version suffer. Maybe PCers should have thought about Ps2 possibly holding PC content back before they bought the game.

[Rearden]

PC version was released in America first, thanks for the input though

[Zemarin]

PC version was released in America first, thanks for the input though

Key words, I mean cause that matters for a Japanese game?

Final Fantasy XI (ファイナルファンタジーXI Fainaru Fantajī Irebun?), also known as Final Fantasy XI Online, is a MMORPG developed and published by Square (later Square Enix) as part of the Final Fantasy series. It was released in Japan on Sony's PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002, and was released for Microsoft's Windows-based personal computers in November 2002...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI

Read and you might learn something.

[FrankReynolds]

Ps2 is 10 yrs old? so is FFXI deal with it; if they wanna get rid of Ps2 they should just get rid of FFXI and make everyone go play 14~ I wonder why they haven't.

Seriously who walks out and buys a 10 yr old game?

Why should those who invested in PS2 version suffer. Maybe PCers should have thought about Ps2 possibly holding PC content back before they bought the game.

I would. Can you point me to a store where they sell PS2 and FFXI? I hear its great and I just gotta try it.

I checked Bestbuy, target, walmart, costco.... all I found was new computers and consoles ; ;

[Zemarin]

after u point me to a Store that sells a $100 notebook that can run this game without probs...

Anyways PS2 probably wouldn't have been limiting another expansion if they had stop wasting memory on unnecessary crap like wotg. Again why should ps2 users be held accountable for their own neglect?

[FrankReynolds]

after u point me to a Store that sells a $100 notebook that can run this game without probs...

what are you gonna do when your ps2 breaks? go buy another one? what are you typing on now? your cell phone? that can probably run it :P

FYI PS2 + Hard Drive costs about the same as a cheap CPU.

[Rearden]

Read and you might learn something.


PC version was released in America first, thanks for the input though

wat
8675309

[Zemarin]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

[CrystalWeapon]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

That's awefuly selfless of you.

[Saegis]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

If it were only for the PS2 I'd agree. However, as the majority play on the PC it's not a very well thought out argument there.

[FrankReynolds]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

LOL you wanna save FFIV by Killing FFXI.

[Leonlionheart]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

lol. Originally it came out on PC thank you very much. XIV is made for PS3 so no one can play it on PC by your standards either.

[Zemarin]

Hey i didn't say that I just said it was made for ps2 it should die with ps2... just like i dont want my heart beating in someone else's chest when I kick the bucket. And why shouldn't it, they made 14 and 14 and super fun! IT's almost JUST like FFXI. But even still none of that has relevance to the ignorant argument that any body who can afford to play this game can afford a pc/notebook to play this game a note book costs MORE then a stupid 360 then one must have to rebuy all the stupid disc and stuff. If ps2 dies now sucks for those ppl and SOME of us do have the ps3 and play it on there.

[Cursed]

Ps2 is 10 yrs old? so is FFXI deal with it; if they wanna get rid of Ps2 they should just get rid of FFXI and make everyone go play 14~ I wonder why they haven't.

-it will be 12 years old in March 2012.

Competitors
Sega's Dreamcast - Extinct , Collector's item.
Microsoft's Xbox - Extinct.
Nintendo's GameCube - Extinct.



Seriously who walks out and buys a 10 yr old game?

Fail.
The FFXI of 2002 stopped existing in 2004. The FFXI of 2004 stopped existing in 2007.
The current version of FFXI we play is just over a year a old.
FFXI isn't a console game that is forever static, time stamped in the state it was when you first purchased it. It is in constant development. This is the nature of all good modern games.
1- They're online
2 - they involve other people, (real people)
3 - they are constantly expanded upon and refreshed
If you have an itch to just buy whatever is being marketed down your throat or whatever the game magazines say you should be playing/buying, then by all means, there's the door, hope we don't see you again.



Why should those who invested in PS2 version suffer. Maybe PCers should have thought about Ps2 possibly holding PC content back before they bought the game.

Those who invested in PS2 way back in 2000 have had over 1.5 billion different titles released on the console.
The 250-500$(depending on where/when/how) they spent on the console has been stretched as far as its going to go.

and by the way, SE is running a business, not a charity. Its sad you are stuck on PS2. take a paper route or something for a month or two and go buy a PC. Or sell lemonade outside of your house. But don't ask everyone else to stop moving forward because you can't keep up with the pace of the race.

[Rearden]

yall dont know about my nidra

(Gogodreamcast)

[Leonlionheart]

Hey i didn't say that I just said it was made for ps2 it should die with ps2... just like i dont want my heart beating in someone else's chest when I kick the bucket. And why shouldn't it, they made 14 and 14 and super fun! IT's almost JUST like FFXI. But even still none of that has relevance to the ignorant argument that any body who can afford to play this game can afford a pc/notebook to play this game a note book costs MORE then a stupid 360 then one must have to rebuy all the stupid disc and stuff. If ps2 dies now sucks for those ppl and SOME of us do have the ps3 and play it on there.

Then what's your problem? Why do you care about ruinning FFXI? Is it because WE don't like FFXIV? Seriously, you have nothing but biased views.

The fact is PS2 is a piece of crap and needs to go down the toilet for holding FFXI back.

[Zemarin]

^ which is why ppl should be playing 14

FFXI old~ IDC how many times they update the game the reality of the situation is a game that runs on an engine developed for a ps2 is old. If ppl wanna preach moving forward they should move their beihinds to the new FFXI (FFXIV) which no one likes? and i don't like playing my games on a pc ( and not even sure if i can play this one on it), I wanna play my game on my console. Therefore imma defend it.

[Andrien]

I have a beautiful HP HDX 16 laptop that runs FFXIV and FFXI smoothly with no hiccups at all.

[Zemarin]

I made something in the toilet. Its fresher than FFXIV, and I had you in mind while I was making it. Want?
its new.

only if its white and chewy~

[Odintius]

Finally there looking to see who actually still uses ps2. Maybe get a real upgrade instead of copy paste etc etc.......

[Leonlionheart]

FFXIV is a different game. I like FFXI very much.

Don't like FFXI? Don't want to play FFXI? Don't. Go play FFXIV. I don't mind, you have my permission.

SE, please drop PS2!

[Cursed]

I hope this poll is followed by an announcement that starts off with "You've spoken and we listened! now we're taking action. If you have the address of a person with a PS2 please forward it to us. Our special team of Ninjas will be visiting them within the coming month, and silencing them forever. You will be awarded 2 free Mythics and Relics of your choice by participating"

[FrankReynolds]

LOL Called it. Zemarin wants FFXI to die because he / she thinks that will save FFXIV.

Bad news.... killing FFXI would most likely just help other gaming companies. Wait!..... Do you work for Blizzard?

[Zemarin]

lawl I want a laptop for 100 bucks I'm still waiting to hear where someone has claimed they could get one. Cuz that's cheaper then what my cell phone cost me~, that's about the price of my cellphone's monthly plan >_>.

and P.S. I dont like FF14~ but I also am against gaming on my pc, my PC is not even made for gaming. I tried gaming on it and its simply not something I could get used to. But if ppl are on this lets move forward idea, all I ask is why clench on to this old game (that's made for ps2) then?
Why claim how easy and cheap it is to get a pc when its not, why isn't this game supported by the newer slim version of ps3 that's being sold as of now as well? why hasn't SE offered a cheap alternative?

What I find most funny about this game is that it has so much "older" content that could be utilized or added to, which gets pushed back only to add something that's pretty similar the same old crap, just rehashed with a different coating. But anyways I think I made my point. All assumptions that were made about one who would choose to use console version are quite ignorant.
Its not that cheap to buy a pc, and some ppl just dont like gaming on their pc, or already have a pc but just "can't" game on it~ Who knows~? but I'm pretty sure a PC player wouldn't know why someone plays on ps2.

[Rearden]

Killing XI would end the free to play days of XIV, which would end XIV because only a fool would pay for that.

[Zemarin]

stop lying you know FF14 is the funnest game ever. (sarcasm)

[FrankReynolds]

lawl I want a laptop for 100 bucks I'm still waiting to hear where someone has claimed they could get one. Cuz that's cheaper then what my cell phone cost me~, that's about the price of my cellphone's monthly plan >_>.

Because you can go on craigslist and find one. No, I'm not going to find it for you. Don't be so lazy.


and P.S. I dont like FF14~ but I also am against gaming on my pc, my PC is not even made for gaming. I tried gaming on it and its simply not something I could get used to. But if ppl are on this lets move forward idea, all I ask is why clench on to this old game (that's made for ps2) then?

So your argument for keeping the PS2 support is that you don't think anyone should play FFXI at all? great. Well.. Because they can update the game, but they can't update the PS2. Get rid of PS2...... get updated..... easy maths.



Why claim how easy and cheap it is to get a pc when its not, why isn't this game supported by the newer slim version of ps3 that's being sold as of now as well? why hasn't SE offered a cheap alternative?

Because most people already have a computer, so it costs SE nothing.



What I find most funny about this game is that it has so much "older" content that could be utilized or added to, which gets pushed back only to add something that's pretty similar the same old crap, just rehashed with a different coating. But anyways I think I made my point. All assumptions that were made about one who would choose to use console version are quite ignorant.

We get it. You think FFXI sucks and you want us all to quit.



Its not that cheap to buy a pc, and some ppl just dont like gaming on their pc, or already have a pc but just "can't" game on it~ Who knows~? but I'm pretty sure a PC player wouldn't know why someone plays on ps2.

I've played it on all 3 versions. PS2 has absolutely no advantage over PC. You can even use the same controllers. I personally use my xbox 360 controllers because I like wireless.

[Lanette]

Given that FFXIV is going nowhere, finding ways to grow what is working is a great idea. Finding out what kind of damage they may end up seeing if they do drop PS2 and choose to make FFXI into the beautiful game FFXIV tried to be.

[erevan]

Somebody in this thread mentioned that 99.9% of pc players use the illegal windower and bots..I'd really like to know where they got their statistics from..I know a lot of ppl that use the pc, laptop or desktop, that don't play againts the ToS. In fact, a number of pc players I know DO use the windower mode that's configured in the PlayonLine-Final Fantasy XI-Final Fantansy XI Config files, but they use it for keeping Wiki up in the background to check on a NM stats or drops, or how to pop it, or whatever, but not for bots or uses against the ToS.
I have seen some YouTube videos where you could see other players HP, MP, TP, distance, that kind of stuff, and I have to agree, that's kind of cool, but I think it's against the ToS. Since I don't plan on getting banned for using any of that, I don't go that route; so I guess I can account for about 10-12 ppl in that .1%. Proof for those stats would need to provided for any kind of action taken.

I also saw where somebody argued against that statement, where it seemed the poster uses PS2, so blooey goes his statement.

[Nightstrike]

I would figure, if they did drop the ps2, at the very least they would give those people an ultimate collection for a platform of there choice. They did say if you played on more than one platform, to check them all... so i guess they'll take that into account also for people that play on the ps2 and other platforms.

[Kari]

Ps2 is 10 yrs old? so is FFXI deal with it

Pretty sure FFXI was updated recently. SO OLD.
Also, you can literally get a computer that runs this game for free.
You can generally find people trying to get rid of obsolete computers, most of which can run this game.

If XIV was the equivalent of XI-2, then we'd probably play it.

Either way, to be blunt, I could care less about anyone who is forced to quit because they're too cheap or stubborn to switch to PC/360.
This game could either flourish now and live for at least a couple years to come, or be tied down by the PS2 and be unable to add any new content very soon, leading to a quicker death.

[FrankReynolds]

Somebody in this thread mentioned that 99.9% of pc players use the illegal windower and bots..I'd really like to know where they got their statistics from..I know a lot of ppl that use the pc, laptop or desktop, that don't play againts the ToS. In fact, a number of pc players I know DO use the windower mode that's configured in the PlayonLine-Final Fantasy XI-Final Fantansy XI Config files, but they use it for keeping Wiki up in the background to check on a NM stats or drops, or how to pop it, or whatever, but not for bots or uses against the ToS.
I have seen some YouTube videos where you could see other players HP, MP, TP, distance, that kind of stuff, and I have to agree, that's kind of cool, but I think it's against the ToS. Since I don't plan on getting banned for using any of that, I don't go that route; so I guess I can account for about 10-12 ppl in that .1%. Proof for those stats would need to provided for any kind of action taken.

I also saw where somebody argued against that statement, where it seemed the poster uses PS2, so blooey goes his statement.

That was me that called him out, because his Signature (which he has changed since then but I quoted it in the post) said that he uses .DAT mods to make the game look the way he wants.

[Feynman]

Just to throw my two cents in.

I play on a ps2. I do have limited funds. For those claiming that people that can't afford to go buy a computer immediately shouldn't be playing the game at all, what other activity do you know of that can provide entertainment for the entire month for less than $20 a month? FFXI is a VERY economical way to provide yourself entertainment.

I do also own a computer. I own a Mac because that is virtually required in my field. My Mac is used for work. I work in a field where data is the name of the game. Thus my computer is constantly having new data stored on it and processed. I do not want (because it is not practical in my situation) to partition my computer so that I can run windows and then take precious, limited space for the game. My laptop has other, and frankly more important, uses.

A review of issues in this forum seems to show that the Xbox 360 version has many issues similar to the ps2 version. This may not be true but seems to be from reading the forum.

There is NO ps3 version. It does not exist. You must buy one of the oldest (touchiest) versions of the ps3 that can emulate ps2.

And finally I support SE axing the ps2. It is an old console that was good in its day. But the point of an online game is the growing, expanding, changing nature. Nobody wants to do dynamis forever with no new content to break it up. Eventually abyssea will be replaced for something new and different. If the ps2 cannot keep up, which it can't, then for the sake of the game it must be allowed to fade away. I think SE should simply announce that they are no longer supporting it. You can still play on it but there will be no new updates, patches, etc. I'm not a programmer so maybe this isn't feasible. But SE needs to say something! PS2 users have been begging for help on these forums for a long time now with issues that are not being addressed. SE needs to make a decision and move forward. Period.

But seriously people, please do not confuse your own circumstances and your own privilege with "if you can't go buy a computer and purchase FFXI pc software right now than you have no business playing the game." This is pure ignorance. Nothing else. I can pay my bills. I can pay to play this game. I could, with time to save, purchase a PC to run the game. But the money for this extra expense must come from somewhere! I must divert money from some other place. Maybe not pay as much on a payment. Maybe not spend as much at the grocery store. A lot of maybes. You say "go buy a pc" as if everybody has extra money laying around. Not all of us do. We can handle our expenses but purchasing a new computer, even a cheap one, is an EXTRA expense.

[Economizer]

I think SE should simply announce that they are no longer supporting it. You can still play on it but there will be no new updates, patches, etc. I'm not a programmer so maybe this isn't feasible.

Unless SE wants to make an announcement and have the PS2 version not work in a month, they'll have to continue patching it. I believe that SE would take a page out of Microsoft's book on how to slowly remove the PS2, and announce a timeline for removing support. Patches would be the last thing to be removed, since you need to have the same version to play on the server.

First, the would announce the timeline and the intention to get people off the PS2. Immediately, sales of PS2 versions of the game would cease. New users who bought the PS2 version would not be able to register an account on the PS2, but instead be prompted to use a PC. If they were so inclined, they could even offer a payment plan for a PC capable of playing it, but this is strictly optional, since SE is not a hardware company. Then, they would make it clear that no more expansions will be made of the PS2. Over the next few months, new content, like Voidwatch, that comes for everyone would still be developed for the PS2 version. After a few months, new content like this would cease, but you would still be able to equip items like this. If an expansion pack for the game is released before the end of the process, PS2 users would only get access to new jobs (if there are any) and gear, but not new areas and quests. After some time, UI features would be added that PS2 users cannot get. Other versions may even get updated textures and other perks that PS2 users do not. Towards the end of this process, as the numbers dwindle, small perks for making your account unable to log onto the PS2 version of the game could be implemented, like a furniture piece. At the complete end, there will be a festival where the PS2 version is deactivated forever.

Additionally, Xbox users could be informed that they must have a larger then 20GB hard drive in order to play (or possibly 20GB hard drives would have to be dedicated to FFXI in order to play) new content, and eventually these too might be phased out.

If SE decides on removing the PS2, it will be a process that takes time, about one to two years notice in a slow process with stages. But it could be done... after all, who expected this game to break 75?

[Feynman]

I approve this phase out plan! Maybe at a bit of an accelerated pace but giving people time is a good way to move in the right direction but not anger your fan base. But SE isn't good at that unfortunately.

[FrankReynolds]

Just to throw my two cents in.

I play on a ps2. ....

edited for length

...... Not all of us do. We can handle our expenses but purchasing a new computer, even a cheap one, is an EXTRA expense.

I appreciate your honesty. However. I know that on the very surface buying a computer seems like an additional expense, but the fact of the matter is that PS2 is old. It will eventually break. Most people would immediately reap other benefits of owning a computer that are far and beyond FFXI. It's not just an expensive version of a game. It opens the door to endless entertainment. It allows them to do countless different things that they weren't ever going to do on PS2. Hell, they might even find a job that pays well enough to compensate for the investment.

as for the work computer thing... you can buy a spare hard drive for about $20 and install any version of windows for $11 dollars a month through the windows in tune service if you can't come up with the cash to buy a copy outright. This is just one example of many ways to get off ps2 on the cheap.

also note that you can re install the computer version on as many computers as you have <think work, school, your parents house so your not bored when you go to visit> , and there is no disc to scratch / lose.

And to all of you who "just prefer PS2....." : Complaining that Botters, and Real Money Traders, and people who are jerks in game are ruining it ... and then coming in here and telling other people that the game should be held back just because you prefer it that way on your PS2, is a huge double standard. And if you really play on PS2, then you know you have done it. Don't lie.

[SpankWustler]

I have a Dell Inspiron 537s but I play FFXI on ps2, and im adamant about keeping it that way. Honestly if a game is made for ps2 it should die wid it. That's wat XIV is for :D

My bluebird of happiness just developed stomach cancer. It's still in the early stages and probably treatable through a mixture of surgery and chemotherapy, though. My bluebird of happiness and I both remain optimistic.

[Tsuneo]

I don't see the big deal with ps2 players not wanting to switch. It's not like you can use a PS2 controller on a pc, so basically it would feel the same except you are running it on a better machine.

[Crinan]

Ok so i read this thread and i just don't understand why people are so insistent on saving the PS2. The whole thing about your computer slowing down or lagging or crashing is irrational. I grabbed my PC Vana'diel collection to look at the system requirements, and i'm trying to understand where this arguement comes in.

Operating System: Windows 2000/XP/VISTA
CPU: Pentium III 800Mhz or faster.
Memory: 128 MB RAM
Graphics Card: GeForce series with 32 MB or RADEON 9000 series
Hard Drive space: 9.5 GB free hard disk space
Internet Connection: 56k or faster

I'm not saying you have to run out and buy a new computer, but i'm pretty sure what you have now will run it just fine with minimal side effects. If you play on PS2 and enjoy playing XI you will move to another platform. If not.....

[Babekeke]

Ok so i read this thread and i just don't understand why people are so insistent on saving the PS2. The whole thing about your computer slowing down or lagging or crashing is irrational. I grabbed my PC Vana'diel collection to look at the system requirements, and i'm trying to understand where this arguement comes in.

Operating System: Windows 2000/XP/VISTA
CPU: Pentium III 800Mhz or faster.
Memory: 128 MB RAM
Graphics Card: GeForce series with 32 MB or RADEON 9000 series
Hard Drive space: 9.5 GB free hard disk space
Internet Connection: 56k or faster

I'm not saying you have to run out and buy a new computer, but i'm pretty sure what you have now will run it just fine with minimal side effects. If you play on PS2 and enjoy playing XI you will move to another platform. If not.....

I played on my wife's laptop for a while when my PC broke. It only had onboard graphics, yet it was still fine to play all aspects of the game aside from besieged. I find that the internet connection that you're using hinders you far more than the machine in this day and age. I wish I lived in a fibre-optic area :(

[Economizer]

Operating System: Windows 2000/XP/VISTA


I can't say for certain, because I haven't tried it again in a while, but you can install FFXI on Windows 98, at least you could before WotG (and I see no reason why you couldn't with WotG).

As long as you have 512MB of RAM and a basic graphics card, this game will run quite fast too, but I'd hope people have a hard drive with at least 40GB of space for future expansions.

Edit: Also, the connection speed of this game is capped at 56k for everyone last I checked. Better connections only help downloading updates and latency, although these advantages are pretty major.

[Arcon]

This is the nature of all good modern games.
1- They're online
2 - they involve other people, (real people)
3 - they are constantly expanded upon and refreshed

While I agree with you sentiment, this grinds my shit. I wouldn't play any game other than XI that meets either of the criteria (maybe the last through DLC/patches, not changing the game like XI). This applies only to MMOGs, and MMOGs suck, I will never play one again. The vast majority of high quality games are static, single-player, offline games and it's good that they are.


lawl I want a laptop for 100 bucks I'm still waiting to hear where someone has claimed they could get one. Cuz that's cheaper then what my cell phone cost me~, that's about the price of my cellphone's monthly plan >_>.

I just entered "cheap computers" in google. These are the first three hits:
http://www.geeks.com/products.asp?cat=SYS
http://www.electrocomputerwarehouse.com/
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=17&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2022-_-CatId_17

It starts at $41, most are in the ~$100 price range, laptops usually a bit higher. If you look for more than half a minute, you might find it even cheaper. And all of them run FFXI with full settings, and a lot better than the PS2 could ever dream to.


Its not that cheap to buy a pc, and some ppl just dont like gaming on their pc, or already have a pc but just "can't" game on it~ Who knows~? but I'm pretty sure a PC player wouldn't know why someone plays on ps2.

I do, stop accusing everyone with groundless assumptions. I love playing on consoles and I always prefer them to the PC, if I get a chance. However, would I play Metal Gear Solid 3 on the NES? No, because it would be an entirely different game and couldn't live up to the expectations due to the limitations of the system.

It's kinda related to what Cursed said up there. The game is ever changing. And one console can only hold so much. PCs on the other hand, are always upgradeable. For this kind of game, the game that endured an entire decade, PC is simply the only logical platform to go with.

[FrankReynolds]

The vast majority of high quality games are static, single-player, offline games and it's good that they are.

I agreed with every single thing you said except this. A lot of the biggest titles meet these criteria. Halo, COD, Bioshock... etc. are all insanely popular and depend almost entirely on:

1- They're online
2 - they involve other people, (real people)
3 - they are constantly expanded upon and refreshed

although, to be fair... they typically just add new maps with no actual content to accompany it. And honestly... I'm not sure I would play another MMORPG again either. Although, if they fully revamped and upgraded this one I might buy it.

[Arcon]

I agreed with every single thing you said except this. A lot of the biggest titles meet these criteria. Halo, COD, Bioshock... etc. are all insanely popular and depend almost entirely on:

1- They're online
2 - they involve other people, (real people)
3 - they are constantly expanded upon and refreshed

Not to derail this further, and maybe I was a bit quick to judge this, but I still believe this applies almost exclusively to MMORPGs or shooters. Not sure how Bioshock involves other people, or do you mean an online mode? I admit, I never played it (for shame!), but I didn't know it was famous for that, at least I've never heard of it. Going by numbers, you could also call sports games high quality, but I was more focusing on the actual quality than the number of sales. If you go by ratings instead of sales, for example, the ranking shifts to Half-Life, Portal, MGS series, etc. (and possibly Deus Ex 3, not played it yet... I have high hopes, better not disappoint me like you did in recent years, SE).

Anyway, just thought the opinion was a bit judgmental, but I guess it's about what people prefer. Anyway, back to PS2 bashing. lol80inv

[Skyver]

(and possibly Deus Ex 3, not played it yet... I have high hopes, better not disappoint me like you did in recent years, SE).


I'd like to point out at this moment that SE had nothing to do with Deus Ex 3's development.

[Retiti]

i play on the ps3, but i like my tv much more than my little lap top screen. and no, i dont really want wires running across my living room from my laptop to my tv. i have cats, and they like to chew on wires. evil beings.
that said, if they got rid of it and i was forced to play on my laptop, if i got a free copy for it, and someone to come show me how to make the damn ps3 controller WORK on my laptop, id happily do it! if i had to spend more hair pulling hours trying to get the controller to work myself, and had to break down and buy yet another copy of the game that i already have, id do it, though i would pout about it for oh... 5 minutes.

[Runespider]

Ultimately all the arguing in the world won't change the fact that this whole issue is a JP one, the ps2 playerbase is so small it's a non-issue everywhere else. As I said earlier they lost more players from other decisions this year.

If the JP PS2 playerbase is still large then that will be the deciding factor, would be nice if anyone could read JP and could see what kind of topics are going on over on the jp forums.

-tinfoil hat-
Unless they are really trying to get all the ps2 players to upgrade to a ps3 by releasing a proper version of FFXI for it with an expansion, then hoping they are all in a position to buy FFXIV!
-tinfoil hat-

[Leonlionheart]

i play on the ps3, but i like my tv much more than my little lap top screen. and no, i dont really want wires running across my living room from my laptop to my tv. i have cats, and they like to chew on wires. evil beings.
that said, if they got rid of it and i was forced to play on my laptop, if i got a free copy for it, and someone to come show me how to make the damn ps3 controller WORK on my laptop, id happily do it! if i had to spend more hair pulling hours trying to get the controller to work myself, and had to break down and buy yet another copy of the game that i already have, id do it, though i would pout about it for oh... 5 minutes.

This is a sensible attitude going about FFXI being dropped from one of it's clients. Probably how most people's attitudes toward the matter are.

[The_GiB]

See here is the thing, While JP numbers will be high for PS2 I wonder a few things

#1 how many people are playing the PS2 version ON the PS3

#2 How many people have a newer non-Backwards compatible PS3 that COULD play the game on PS3 if a native PS3 version was available. Because they haven't made a Backwards compatible system for about what? 2-3 years?

cause you have to keep in mind, only the old school fatty PS2's support a HDD which you NEED to play FFXI and those were discontinued what, 7ish years ago?

basically yes, alot of JPs play on the PS2 but I really wonder how many already have access to a PS3

[Ryanx]

if they cancel support on ps2 should at least make version of game for PS3

[Rearden]

Deux Ex 3 makes a run for Machina, and made me completely forgive/forget Invisible War (which I didn't even bother finishing)

It's got some different gameplay elements from Machina, but it's a great game and if you remember the story the new game would be set 30ish years prior to that.

And it's evident SE had nothing to do with the production of Deux Ex, it's an absolute great game.

[Zemarin]

But seriously people, please do not confuse your own circumstances and your own privilege with "if you can't go buy a computer and purchase FFXI pc software right now than you have no business playing the game." This is pure ignorance. Nothing else. I can pay my bills. I can pay to play this game. I could, with time to save, purchase a PC to run the game. But the money for this extra expense must come from somewhere! I must divert money from some other place. Maybe not pay as much on a payment. Maybe not spend as much at the grocery store. A lot of maybes. You say "go buy a pc" as if everybody has extra money laying around. Not all of us do. We can handle our expenses but purchasing a new computer, even a cheap one, is an EXTRA

I think this very well sums up everything I have tried to say... And honestly I'm not gonna believe that CL (or watever back alley ad forum) is gonna provide a computer good enough to play FFXI with enough storage space, and quite frankly if someone don't have a pc; we can expect them to not have all the peripheral equipment accompanying them yet alone the chance of getting scammed on these sites are way higher than in an actual store.

Srsly bro I can use google too! but just like no one is gonna find ps2 parts in a store; there's not gonna be any store that sells a perfectly working pc/laptop for under $100. (if you have to buy more equipment that = more money btw). It may apply and be acceptable to you, if you would really buy that crap off them sites that's cool I guess, but I don't think that would fly by with every ps3 player looking to upgrade to something just for FFXI.

SE's gonna do what they gonna do whether I like it or not, and I will have to face that fact~ but I honestly feel That ps2 version users should be accomodated in "some" way! Just to slough em off and expect em to go rebuy crap that may or may not be at a reasonable price for some is quite arrogant~ that's like something Nexon would do, I would not expect that from SE.

but my real and intial problem is more so with ppl making these false claims that any and everyone can afford a "usable" laptop/pc for as low as X dollars which = 4 months of FFXI... and then there's some reason think that everyone just magically knows how to program their computer to run on a TV with a PS controller. Honestly I just feel most ppl who even commented about ps users are thinking from their own perspective absolutely neglecting the perspective of an average citizen.
It's just seems weird to me, for some to just assume everyone that plays this game is some nerd with the tech savvy of someone on a geek squad.
This problem may not be directly my problem per se~ but, is it wrong of me to acknowledge the fact that everyone don't have 300~ dollars to go buy an X-box 360 (I actually remember buying an Xbox for someone and cuz of their location they couldn't even play it for some reason)/laptop? and not everyone knows how to program their PC to work on the TV or even has a computer?

Does this justify not cutting off PS2? no it doesn't. But still I think they hold some merit esp. since SE seems reluctant to actually release it for ps3~

All I have done was really just pointing out whenever someone posts "You can just do.... *insert task here*" You ignore the fact that, such task may not be that easy for everybody. The ignorance shines when you proclaim someone can do something without knowing their situation to begin with.

It's like me assuming everyone on this board can do cartwheels and back bend, I'm pretty sure most can't, just like im pretty sure most financially tight ppl can't take out 300~600 bux to spend on some new equipment and the discs just for this game.

Now that I'm done with that: I just have two things to comment on.


they typically just add new maps with no actual content to accompany it.

SE already does this with FFXI anyways... which I mentioned before~ Everything new is just a play on Dynamis and Beseiged, all the really interesting stuff got tossed out like yesterday's trash. I don't see real new content or areas adding anything better than a play on Besieged/Dyna/FoV, unless SE if finally ready to break free from their party play idea and make this game like most mmo's where one person can kill nearly everything alone. Even breaking from ps2 i don't see this game changing that much beyond cosmetically, Content only seems better cuz ppl can now actually lvl to 90 in 1 day (after getting high enough to get into abyssea), and now there's more ppl to do stuff with...Honestly the way this game has changed so much, I'm surprised SE hasn't opted to go the Free to play~ Cash shop module.


I'm just going to go out on a limb and say two very honest truths:

1. Zemarin is a terrible, stubborn, low-IQ poster who is making the playerbase look bad;
2. If you are reading this, chances are you are using a machine that is capable of running the game. Seriously. My mom's crappy Compaq she got from Wal Mart in ~2005 can run the game like butter. It's time to switch, kiddies.

1) I'm not terrible, I can be stubborn maybe, but most of all I dunno how you got my IQ score?, I don't represent the playerbase.... um so I don't understand how I make the player base look bad especially since all I have done was stated how ignorant it is to tell ppl what they can or can not afford; or how easily they can accommodate losing their ability to use their system.
Then ppl go on to claim ps2 users are stuck in the past, when all I'm saying is in reality is that anyone who is even playing this game is stuck in the past. I'm sure someone who owns a ps2 copy of this game has put in an ample amount of time into this game and cares just as much about their character as any pc player. By this update nonsense logic if I go log into ever Quest right now I'm playing something brand spanking new, yeee okaaayyyy.
It has really little to do with ppl being stuck in the past it has more to do with SE offering a game on 3 systems I have one and they just decide one Magical day "Hey we don't want ppl to play on that system no more so either u go buy this or never see char again; kthxbye"
I pretty sure if they removed Xbox users from this game and made it PC only ppl would have beef as well, but the thing is Xbox users don't have to worry about that cuz SE was nice enough to actually port it on Xbox while ps3 users get to watch ps ver. DIE?.

Anyways I'm just stating my opinions on this if you don't agree with them I'm fine, insulting me won't change em, it just shows how ignorant ppl are that post in this thread.

I can very well understand why ppl don't like ps2 ver. it's not hard to get, but what seems challenging for ppl who don't play ps2 to understand why someone would use it, and why taking it away from them is kinda Jaded especially for a game that was initially developed for it.

Lots of ppl like to compare it to PSU but PSU's issue was WORLDS different from the issue on this game.
Besides this is the only game I know where PC,X-box, and PS players actually all play on the same exact servers. If they were kind enough to give PS3 its own then i'd have NO problem, but they didn't, and it kinda feels like they never will.

2) Also The name and date of ur computer really doesn't have much to do with the stuff inside of it... just throwing it out there. My mom's computer can handle games better then mine she got hers in 2003 i got mine in last quarter 09. She actually uses a graphics card, I have chip set. Then again my pc's made for business, not media such as hers~

Just sayin~

[FrankReynolds]

if they cancel support on ps2 should at least make version of game for PS3

That would defeat the purpose.

[FrankReynolds]

wall of text

Trying to tell several thousand people that you want the game they love to stagnate and die because you can't be bothered to use a computer for anything other than complaining about not wanting to use a computer.

~just sayin

[Zemarin]

Trying to tell several thousand people that you want the game they love to stagnate and die because you can't be bothered to use a computer for anything other than complaining about not wanting to use a computer.

~just sayin

Nope never said that, I never said I specifically can't use pc... I just said that it's not right. Maybe u should sober up n learn how to read..

just sayin~ it's always funny how a reader always thinks a situation just pertains, too bad most ppl who do play PS don't waste their life on this forum, while pc just talk sh!t about a game that they don't wanna die. Guess some ppl forget death is kinda inevitable.

[FrankReynolds]

I can use a computer, I never said I specifically can't... I said that it's not right. Maybe u should learn how to read.. just sayin~

I think I understood you perfectly. Unless your trying to say it's not right but you think they should go ahead and drop PS2 anyways. And if you could read, you would realize that I didn't say you couldn't use a computer. I said that you think SE should have to support PS2 forever because you don't want to use a computer.

[Zemarin]

Actually if you wasn't too drunk to realize I'm not complaining at all anymore...see this is the definition of a complain:

Complain:
to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault.

And what I'm doing is stating: Yeah Freyn said this, what dude said is situational, Frank's stupid cause u think FFXI is doing something different/unique, and last fool really dunno wdf he talking about yet calling me stupid.

Does that sound like a complaint? or allegations. Cause I think I'm leaning towards the latter.
Again fool, sober up n learn ta read. kkggthxbb


you can't be bothered to use a computer

Also the word can't is in there sugar pie, just to ,let u know I'm don't think I'm going outta MY mind.

Again I can do it, i really don't want to and SE never offered an alternative...

[FrankReynolds]

Actually if you wasn't too drunk to realize I'm not complaining at all anymore...see this is the definition of a complain:

Complain:
to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault.

And what I'm doing is stating: Yeah Freyn said this, what dude said is situational, Frank's stupid cause u think FFXI is doing something different/unique, and last fool really dunno wdf he talking about yet calling me stupid.

Does that sound like a complaint? or allegations. Cause I think I'm leaning towards the latter.
Again fool, sober up n learn ta read. kkggthxbb



Also the word can't is in there sugar pie, just to ,let u know I'm don't think I'm going outta MY mind.

Again I can do it, i really don't want to and SE never offered an alternative...

Most of what you just wrote does't even make sense. What I actually said was:

"because you can't be bothered to use a computer for anything other than complaining about not wanting to use a computer."

Don't try to change the meaning of what I said by removing words from the quote.

[Eric]

Guess some ppl forget death is kinda inevitable.

You mean like the death of the PS2?

[Ancientelite]

interesting

[Vold]

SE's gonna do what they gonna do whether I like it or not, and I will have to face that fact~ but I honestly feel That ps2 version users should be accomodated in "some" way! Just to slough em off and expect em to go rebuy crap that may or may not be at a reasonable price for some is quite arrogant~ that's like something Nexon would do, I would not expect that from SE.So because you are paying money, you're entitled to be serviced forever? Sorry but the world doesn't go round like that. The PS2 will not last forever. What are you going to do then? Demand to be accommodated because you bought it once upon a time? So do you go back to Sears to demand compensation because the pair of jeans you bought 20 years earlier are worn out and didn't last for a lifetime?

You're basically asking SE to stick with PS2 support until your system dies off i.e. Sony stops supporting it, forcing you to "naturally" move on from it, thereby holding the game back from what it could become. I will guarantee you most PS2 users have a computer that can run this game. The problem is giving them a swift kick in the butt to switch over. It would be unfortunate for them to have to deal with it but they are going to have to deal with it someday. Just like I did when my PS2 HDD died like the pos that it was. I say make them deal with it NOW instead of later.

SE has two choices. 1)do what they must to prolong the life of the game. 2)let it continue to it's slow death. In 5 years or so it's pretty much guaranteed to be on life support at the rate they're going. I just can't hold any sympathy for PS2 users who would rather deal with their inevitable PS2 death later than sooner. Your system will die off and we are wasting precious time waiting on it.

[Quetzacoatl]

Too bad 99.9% of PC players RELY on windower & bots to play cause apparently vanilla ffxi is too hard QQ

Edit: And god forbid they can't play on a TEST server without it e_e

I don't think the primary issue about 3rd party Windower, or as I like to call it, "Window3r," is about botting. It's certainly an issue and a different story to talk about, though. Rather, It's either the players don't care to work with SE's macro system and prefer macro layouts and tools that work better for their performance, or they want to customize their own FFXI UI for their own personal purpose. For most PC players and endgamers, it's certainly not a requirement, but I imagine it's more or less encouraged to have these options if you want to experiment with it. I wouldn't go as far as to assume that 99.9% of PC players use Window3r (yes I realize you were just exaggerating). I play Vanilla FFXI on PC, and with all due respect to Window3r's programmers, I'm okay without it. Why?

1. As far as Damage-Dealing goes, for example, I topped out 1-2 times out of 5 runs as DRK during a Dynamis Lord run, according to a parser. Funny thing is, I wasn't concerned about doing top damage as much as I was concerned with killing Dynamis Lord fast and furiously. Anyway, The relevance here is the difference in macro systems, where SE's macros usually allow six lines per macro for gear swapping, but Window3r allows you to have as much work space as you need. The Vanilla FFXI player has to nail down proper timing during a full-scale gear swap, because even overlapping macros would make them forget to swap certain equipment in. It's easy to master once the timing is nailed down, though. However, For the ultra-core players who want total use of their equipment, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't go for an option that works for them to carry out all of their tasks. If it ain't broke, just tweak it to make it work better.

2. Avesta, a player considered by the community as a Demigod of Red Mage solo play, played on a PS2. Timing on casting spells were key for him, and that is exactly what is needed to play fluidly on a console or Vanilla PC. I know a few friends who used to or still play two characters at once with both PC and PS2, and they do just as well as a Window3r player. Even if the PC player had windower, they still had to work with their PS2 character at their side. That takes skill to pull off properly either way. It just goes to show anything's possible, no matter what platform you're on. You just need to know what you're working with.

I'm also just lazy to look into installing it and all the plug-ins that are included with it. I'm definitely not inclined to risk my account and 6 years of playtime to a security vulnerability the software developers might have missed somewhere during an upgrade. Not that there could be, as I'm aware the users have full confidence in the product, but I personally like to play safe. Plus, I would find having to update it after a version update of the game, because of a badly-installed plug-in, to be a pain in the rear.

That's just me.

[Leonlionheart]

Make a server and put all the PS2 users there, don't update it. It'll be like an island for lepers.

Give PC and 360 users shiny new areas, gear skins, spells, weapon skills, and job abilities. Shiny new storylines too.

[Mirage]

Isn't is possible that the reason the game doesn't start with third party windowers is that SE would like the test environment of every tester to be identical? Same reason why everyone needs every expansion installed to be able to participate. To lower the amount of variables between testers as much as possible.

I don't blame them at all for this. It only seems sensible to me.

As for the use of windower and other third party tools, I don't care what other people do, as long as they don't have programs that perform automated actions based on data received from the game servers (that's a fancy way of saying "botting").

[Spero]

Maybe,their trying to see if it would be worth it to make a ps3 version of ffxi. If enough people useing the ps2 version are actually useing a ps3, maybe they might make a ps3 version and drop the ps2. I prefer not to use a pc to play it, I prefer to play on my ps3.

[FrankReynolds]

Maybe,their trying to see if it would be worth it to make a ps3 version of ffxi. If enough people useing the ps2 version are actually useing a ps3, maybe they might make a ps3 version and drop the ps2. I prefer not to use a pc to play it, I prefer to play on my ps3.

Maybe, I doubt they could make it worth the work unless they redid the game graphics etc. to make it sell though. Which they might be able to if they dropped PS2? That would be pretty cool. Somehow I just don't think it would be profitable though. I think they are just looking for ways to maintain current player base at a lower overhead.

[Eric]

Maybe, I doubt they could make it worth the work unless they redid the game graphics etc. to make it sell though. Which they might be able to if they dropped PS2? That would be pretty cool. Somehow I just don't think it would be profitable though. I think they are just looking for ways to maintain current player base at a lower overhead.

I think it would work to some extent if they just raise the resolution like they did with the Xbox 360 version. If anything, it would be a better port than the 360 version because it's more similar to the PS2 hardware, wouldn't it? I'm not sure how similar PS3 and PS2 are in terms of how easy it is to port stuff, but that's just a wild guess I'm throwing out there.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah, I don't know either. I would think that remaking it for PS2 would be expensive. They would have to attract new customers to make it profitable. I don't know if new people would buy it for PS3 if it didn't have updated graphics and possibly a new expansion or something. That is what they did with 360 sorta. who knows though. maybe its a simple port.

[Siiru]

Ps2 is 10 yrs old? so is FFXI deal with it; if they wanna get rid of Ps2 they should just get rid of FFXI and make everyone go play 14~ I wonder why they haven't.

Seriously who walks out and buys a 10 yr old game?

Why should those who invested in PS2 version suffer. Maybe PCers should have thought about Ps2 possibly holding PC content back before they bought the game.
I invite you to go talk to all the Everquest players. I've had it with your stubbornness and hope SE drops PS2 support just to phase YOU out.

Btw: I WAS a Ps2 player until I saw the light. You know what I played this on after that? a $50 handmedown computer. (I have a better laptop now but not the point).

[Ritsuka]

Well from what i herd on some ppl but i guess it depends on the internet you have too. The game does not lag the ps2 if ur internet support its. Its not totaly Square Enix's Fault either yes the game is there's but the hard ware IS NOT thats all sony and SONY srewed SE when they stright up droped the hard drive support plus they made so you couldnt use any other hard drive but there's period. Yes you can buy the HD load and use any Maxtor hard drive you want but i tryed my harddest and couldnt get this game to load on it so i keep my offical Sony hdd for my Final Fantasy games. If its the hard ware holding it back then blame Sony not SE

[Modoru]

I actually have a *new* PS2 FFXI box w/ HDD and everything. I never opened it.

I never had the fat PS2, so it ended up being a retarded purchase on my end. I didn't know by then, and thought I could get a fat ps2 by the time it was still an okay purchase. However, I could never get the PS2... therefore, moot purchase. It's still sitting there, gathering dust. I should dust it off and take pictures. :C

[Aldersyde]

Make a server and put all the PS2 users there, don't update it. It'll be like an island for lepers.

Give PC and 360 users shiny new areas, gear skins, spells, weapon skills, and job abilities. Shiny new storylines too.

Like WOTG which took SE three years finish while they milked the player base for monthly fees?

Seriously, people put way too much faith on what SE would do even if they were able to get rid of the PS2. Since the last installment of Abyssea I haven't seen any indication that SE is serious about putting that much effort into this game. So little has been put into a stage where they're supposed to be balancing jobs and game play. You don't need to get rid of the PS2 to do that. Their effort has been lackluster, especially this update where it seems that the update schedule is being drawn out (LOL at the time being taken to give so little) as long as possible. The last major update is only worse because this time there's actually a level increase. It's hard to believe the same team who worked on Abyssea is the same ones at the helm now.

Just because SE drops PS2 doesn't mean it's going to be all sugar and rainbows for this game's future. You're deluded if you think it is.

I play on a lap top and dualbox a ps2 account if you think that makes any difference for my opinion (it really doesn't).

[Kyohyi]

By the way - I had another thought about this survey.

A few years ago, there was a news article that said that SquareEnix was interested in creating a PS3 version of FFXI (http://www.1up.com/news/square-enix-interested-final-fantasy), but the Sony representative "quit".

Also - there were comments along the lines of (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147946/report-square-enix-working-on-ps3-vista-mmorpg) "It was easy to port the 360 version from the PC version, but a PS3 version would have to be coded from scratch." In that post, it seemed like the development team's energy was being directed to FFXIV for PS3 and PCs, instead of trying to port FFXI to the PS3.

So - another thing this survey may be looking at might be interest in a native PS3 version of FFXI - perhaps due to the delay of the PS3 version of FFXIV.

e.g. If a significant number of folks check the PS3 box, then there would be some PS3 usage data that might justify putting some developer resources towards a port.

This may have been obvious to some folks - but I thought I'd point it out.

-kyo >^_^<

[Atomic_Skull]

By the way - I had another thought about this survey.

A few years ago, there was a news article that said that SquareEnix was interested in creating a PS3 version of FFXI (http://www.1up.com/news/square-enix-interested-final-fantasy), but the Sony representative "quit".

Also - there were comments along the lines of (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147946/report-square-enix-working-on-ps3-vista-mmorpg) "It was easy to port the 360 version from the PC version, but a PS3 version would have to be coded from scratch." In that post, it seemed like the development team's energy was being directed to FFXIV for PS3 and PCs, instead of trying to port FFXI to the PS3.

So - another thing this survey may be looking at might be interest in a native PS3 version of FFXI - perhaps due to the delay of the PS3 version of FFXIV.

e.g. If a significant number of folks check the PS3 box, then there would be some PS3 usage data that might justify putting some developer resources towards a port.

This may have been obvious to some folks - but I thought I'd point it out.

-kyo >^_^<

They'll have to majorly recode it for the Vita port anyway. Vita uses OpenGL not DirectX and it's not a Windows platform either.

The reason the 360 version was easy is because it's basically a Windows box, albeit one using a PowerPC CPU and a modified version of DirectX more highly optimized for a specific GPU and with the error checking largely removed. Very few changes have to be made to your source code in order to port it to the 360. If SE does a Vita port that will not be the case at all. They will have to re write the game to run on a different OS and render 3D graphics using OpenGL instead of DirectX.

[Lordscyon]

Well instead of talking about it make sure you check the survey on which game console you play ffxi if you forget (fail)

[Rearden]

I actually have a *new* PS2 FFXI box w/ HDD and everything. I never opened it.

I never had the fat PS2, so it ended up being a retarded purchase on my end. I didn't know by then, and thought I could get a fat ps2 by the time it was still an okay purchase. However, I could never get the PS2... therefore, moot purchase. It's still sitting there, gathering dust. I should dust it off and take pictures. :C
Sell it, before it becomes obsolete.

[Kyohyi]

They'll have to majorly recode it for the Vita port anyway. Vita uses OpenGL not DirectX and it's not a Windows platform either.

However - the Vita (apparently) has a standard multicore CPU/GPU architecture (ARM + PowerVR), unlike the PS3. OpenGL vs. DirectX notwithstanding, this doesn't appear to be as much of a developer lift - Square Enix has indicated as much anyway:


Former Final Fantasy XI lead Hiromichi Tanaka mentioned the possibility of a PlayStation Vita port to Famitsu. Presently, plans are not concrete, but Square Enix is considering a basic port of their MMORPG for PlayStation Vita.

There are no plans for a PlayStation 3 port, however. Tanaka clarifies and says making use of the PS3′s hardware characteristics is difficult for a simple port.

(from Square Enix Looking Into Final Fantasy XI Port For PlayStation Vita, But Not PS3 (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/12/square-enix-looking-into-playstation-vita-port-for-playstation-vita-but-not-ps3/) )

-kyo >^_^<

[Aequis]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the game is still very limited, with or without PS2/3 versions. It still has a capped framerate, it still has issues with the coding that slow it down in certain situations, it's still limited by outdated graphics and no matter how fast your internet connection is, it doesn't affect how smoothly the game runs. They won't re-write the game engine to work better if it ends up being PC-only.

From reading these posts, it sounds as if you're expecting a fantastic new version to suddenly appear if they stop PS2/3 support. With their reduced staff, I honestly can't see this happening any time soon. They still have the mystical PS3 version of FFXIV to produce at some point in time, which is even more unlikely to happen and there's four other Final Fantasy games in development (FFXIII-2, FFXIII: Versus, FFXIV and the purported PS Vita FFXI).

It's difficult to judge. We should just wait and see what happens.

[Leonlionheart]

Like I've said over and over, the only thing dropping PS2 will affect is size related issues.

Meaning we can only get more, not necessarily better quality things. Though the details will be better quality since they don't have to dumb everything down for PS2.

[Tsuneo]

Getting more than 80 inventory spaces is reason enough to drop PS2.

[Arcon]

Getting more than 80 inventory spaces is reason enough to drop PS2.

It's also enough reason to drop 360, Vita and Japan.

[zanlabik]

Getting more than 80 inventory spaces is reason enough to drop PS2.

Dropping the PS2 will not affect storage... if 80 truly is the max a PS2 can hold, then it would stand to reason we could have 80 types of storage, each holding 80 items.

As far as them crack-jobs thinking the PS2 is holding back development and would see the console dropped for the better of the game, I ask what if they decide that a specific region was holding back the development of FFXI. Would you prefer to see that you can no longer play the game solely to keep it alive for others to enjoy?

Viva la PS2!!!!

[Camiie]

From reading these posts, it sounds as if you're expecting a fantastic new version to suddenly appear if they stop PS2/3 support.


People really do seem to believe that a whole new game client will be produced once the PS2 is no longer supported, when the FFXI crew is probably working with less resources than it ever has.

What's funny is, I've been on the forums of that famous US based MMO with 11-12 million subscribers, and even their community reps complain about a lack of resources/manpower when the players ask for certain things. AND, it's a completely PC based game, not affected in any way by a console created at the turn of the century. Technically they could make wholesale changes to the game client much easier than SE could, I would imagine.

Even when you're only dealing with PCs, you have to make sure that you don't push the requirements too far past what you initially set, or you start alienating your users with older PCs.

Now, think about SE. They don't have 11-12 million people pouring money into their game. It's just a small part of their overall operations. It's an old game, with a largely negative reputation among the general gaming community. How much do we really think they're going to sink into a new game client? What's their distribution model going to be like? What will the timetable be for people to buy and upgrade?

[Leonlionheart]

Like I've said over and over, the only thing dropping PS2 will affect is size related issues.

Meaning we can only get more, not necessarily better quality things. Though the details will be better quality since they don't have to dumb everything down for PS2.

guys guys guys guys guys learn to read.

No one thinks we're getting a new client, what the hell?

We just want new zones. Possibility at new expansions. New gear skins. Stop rehashing trash like in ToM. Much more development space.

Let's be perfectly honest, SE cares about money. Why do you think this survey is coming out?

BECAUSE PS2 NO LONGER BRINGS IN THE REVENUE TO CONTINUE SUPPORTING IT WITH NEW UPDATES

The fact of the matter is, if they drop it, 90% of the community won't care, 90% of PS2 players will move to PC, and SE has much larger working space for development of the game.

[Kimara]

Dropping the PS2 will not affect storage... if 80 truly is the max a PS2 can hold, then it would stand to reason we could have 80 types of storage, each holding 80 items.

As far as them crack-jobs thinking the PS2 is holding back development and would see the console dropped for the better of the game, I ask what if they decide that a specific region was holding back the development of FFXI. Would you prefer to see that you can no longer play the game solely to keep it alive for others to enjoy?

Viva la PS2!!!!

I do hope they give us more storage though, even with all the porter moogles, sachel and sack I still never seem to have quite enough space. I don't think PS2 is the reason why it's 80 though. I am all for dropping the PS2 if it means upgrades for anything really. Not that I don't love the PS2 and I think that it was fine for Xi for a long while. I was always on PC but Saith played on PS2 for a long time. But if PS2 is holding back the game in any way from progressing whether it be inventory space, graphics, expansions. I want them to drop it. Like I've said before most people that own or play on PS2 have the newer systems anyway, with exceptions of course.

[Economizer]

From reading these posts, it sounds as if you're expecting a fantastic new version to suddenly appear if they stop PS2/3 support.

More expansion packs is the primary thing I think would happen, along side from minor adjustments that would not be possible on the PS2, such as expanded Macros (like linking macros to each other).

[Eric]

None of the new FFXI collections have appeared for PS2. Sure, the Abyssea collection wasn't made for Xbox 360, but it is still way easier to get game disks for Xbox than it is for PS2. People have to go extremely out of their way if they want to start playing the game on PS2.

The link for buying the PS2 version on the official PlayOnline website doesn't even work anymore. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/envi/ps/ps01.html?pageID=ps

I wholeheartedly agree with Leonlionheart. The PS2 is no longer bringing in new players, and it's due to the reasons I just stated. The PS2 population is only dwindling, and there's no stopping it.

[Tsuneo]

Dropping the PS2 will not affect storage... if 80 truly is the max a PS2 can hold, then it would stand to reason we could have 80 types of storage, each holding 80 items.

Adding more bags would be worthless. As it is we can't macro gear that isn't in our main inventory, so why would I want to see more inventory space that I can't actually use when I'm out fighting.

[Runespider]

At bare minimum, dropping ps2 would mean better auto-translate, larger inventory, more options per zone (that can't be done currently due to ps2 ram limitations..like having a moogle do af3 storage in your mog etc), direct X update etc and the devs not having such strict restrants when adding new content.

Heck it's possibly even the reason they won't release proper expansions anymore, because there would be no way to sell it to PS2 players (stores don't stock ps2 games anymore) and since they have to support all formats still they can't do that.

[FrankReynolds]

People really do seem to believe that a whole new game client will be produced once the PS2 is no longer supported, when the FFXI crew is probably working with less resources than it ever has.

No they don't. Its been said like 50 times in this thread.


What's funny is, I've been on the forums of that famous US based MMO with 11-12 million subscribers, and even their community reps complain about a lack of resources/manpower when the players ask for certain things. AND, it's a completely PC based game, not affected in any way by a console created at the turn of the century. Technically they could make wholesale changes to the game client much easier than SE could, I would imagine.

Maybe that's why they have 11-12 million players?


Even when you're only dealing with PCs, you have to make sure that you don't push the requirements too far past what you initially set, or you start alienating your users with older PCs.

Now, think about SE. They don't have 11-12 million people pouring money into their game. It's just a small part of their overall operations. It's an old game, with a largely negative reputation among the general gaming community. How much do we really think they're going to sink into a new game client? What's their distribution model going to be like? What will the timetable be for people to buy and upgrade?

What new client? Its all ready on PC and 360.

[Atomic_Skull]

But Live Vanadiel is running on a PS2 and an apparently gasping-it's-last-breath 9 year old video capture card with gradually worsening horizontal sync issue. You wouldn't want them to have to shut it down would you?

[Atomic_Skull]

Adding more bags would be worthless. As it is we can't macro gear that isn't in our main inventory, so why would I want to see more inventory space that I can't actually use when I'm out fighting.

It would however allow them to add direct bag to bag transfers instead of bag -> main inventory -> bag. They wouldn't have to completely rewrite the client to improve it. There are lots of things that could be done to improve the existing client.

You do not have to scrap your code and start over, you can always just improve what you have. For an example of this look at Valve's Source engine. Source is a direct descendant of the Quakeworld engine and it still has pieces of original Quake code in it.

[Atomic_Skull]

However - the Vita (apparently) has a standard multicore CPU/GPU architecture (ARM + PowerVR), unlike the PS3. OpenGL vs. DirectX notwithstanding, this doesn't appear to be as much of a developer lift - Square Enix has indicated as much anyway:

Sony has also indicated that they will release a software toolkit for easily porting Vita games to the PS3.

[Camiie]

No they don't. Its been said like 50 times in this thread.


The people in this thread don't speak for everyone who wants to see the PS2 dropped. There are other forums out there that SE does pay attention to, and I have seen requests for updated graphics, instanced content, and all kind of things that would require a new client.



Maybe that's why they have 11-12 million players?

Reread what you replied to here. What I said was, even though they have 11-12 million players, Blizzard still responds that they don't have the resources to do certain things their players ask for. Also, even though they have a purely PC-based game there are still changes they can't make without serious changes to the client. An example to that would be the size of a character's starting backpack.

Cut off all the PS2 support tomorrow, and it doesn't necessarily make it easy or feasible for SE to recode the inventory aspect of the game. It doesn't magically give them the financial resources to create and ship out new expansions with all new zones/storylines/etc.



What new client? Its all ready on PC and 360.


Again, reread... For some of the changes people want, they may well have to rework or rebuild the client, even for some of the "simple" changes. We're playing a PS2 game ported to PC and 360. The "PS2 limitations" are built into those versions as well. Now, it's fine if someone wants to come along and tell me that all they have to do is replace a few .dat files and all the limits are gone. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think it's that simple.

Besides, as I've alluded to, there are more than PS2 limitations at work here which is why we're getting this survey. There are monetary limitations, manpower limitations, and corporate politics limitations as well. It'd be great if one of the devs could just take a day or two to change a few files and give us everything we want. I just don't think it works that way. There's more to it than we all realize.

[TetsujinX]

Ok so by the logic of the majority in this thread, I should drop my ps2 to go buy a computer FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PLAYING THIS AND ONLY THIS GAME. Yeah that makes all the sense in the world. Because I definitely wouldn't want to, you know, do actual WORK on my pc or anything. Some of us make just enough to cover bills(including this game) and not much else. But wait! I know... its my fault because I can totally get a loan for like50k and go back to school so I can work the same job I have with the same pay. But hey I will have a degree! Andd we aren't even going to mention the single most unreliable machine ever created. Because freezin in port jeuno, abyssea, dynamis, beseiged, and campaign is always a good time for me. But following you logic again, since the 360 version is so unreliable, it also is "holding the game back" and should be dropped, leaving only those that feel PC's are the only way to go. Hell if we continue to follow your logic for all games then there was never a need for any consoles since they are obviously inferior to PC's in everyway.

Ok my sarcastic rant is over. Bottom line people play the game on the machine of their choice. Those with money to spare do it on PC. Those that don't mind having to reset every 30 minutes do it on 360. Those that dont mind graphic tha are marginallly worse do it on PS2. I have had all 3 versions. I got rid of the PC version, as it left me little room for anything else like work and school related projects, resumes and the like. I got rid of the 360 version because I was tired of resetting and having to remember to put the disc in. I mean really, who needs a disc to run this game? I know PS2, and PC don't...

And for those that are saying ps2 users are just cheap think about this. I am on my 3rd(fixed for free but still...) 360, 4th laptop(all 4 purchased with grant money which is no longer available to me) and my 1st PS2. I will take reliable over flashy every day, all day.

[Spero]

One thing your forgeting is that the base engine for ffxi is ps2. They would have to rewrite the whole game to take ps2 out of the game. The upgrades you think you'll get from elimateing ps2 system, will only happen if they redo the whole game and include a new engine based on another base system, like ps3. Do you think they would redo the whole game?

[Arcon]

Ok so by the logic of the majority in this thread, I should drop my ps2 to go buy a computer FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PLAYING THIS AND ONLY THIS GAME. Yeah that makes all the sense in the world. Because I definitely wouldn't want to, you know, do actual WORK on my pc or anything.

Where did we say that? You can use a PC to do many things. But even if, it wouldn't be much of a stretch, since PCs capable of playing this barely cost more than an average game anyway.


Hell if we continue to follow your logic for all games then there was never a need for any consoles since they are obviously inferior to PC's in everyway.

We already explained what the difference between FFXI and other games are, why it would work for some games but not others.


One thing your forgeting is that the base engine for ffxi is ps2. They would have to rewrite the whole game to take ps2 out of the game. The upgrades you think you'll get from elimateing ps2 system, will only happen if they redo the whole game and include a new engine based on another base system, like ps3. Do you think they would redo the whole game?

What base engine? How is it PS2? The upgrades most people are asking for (inventory space) is changing a number. Despite all their (many) shortcomings, I think the dev team should still be able to do that... maybe... actually... nvm.

[FrankReynolds]

The people in this thread don't speak for everyone who wants to see the PS2 dropped. There are other forums out there that SE does pay attention to, and I have seen requests for updated graphics, instanced content, and all kind of things that would require a new client.




Reread what you replied to here. What I said was, even though they have 11-12 million players, Blizzard still responds that they don't have the resources to do certain things their players ask for. Also, even though they have a purely PC-based game there are still changes they can't make without serious changes to the client. An example to that would be the size of a character's starting backpack.

Cut off all the PS2 support tomorrow, and it doesn't necessarily make it easy or feasible for SE to recode the inventory aspect of the game. It doesn't magically give them the financial resources to create and ship out new expansions with all new zones/storylines/etc.





Again, reread... For some of the changes people want, they may well have to rework or rebuild the client, even for some of the "simple" changes. We're playing a PS2 game ported to PC and 360. The "PS2 limitations" are built into those versions as well. Now, it's fine if someone wants to come along and tell me that all they have to do is replace a few .dat files and all the limits are gone. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think it's that simple.

Besides, as I've alluded to, there are more than PS2 limitations at work here which is why we're getting this survey. There are monetary limitations, manpower limitations, and corporate politics limitations as well. It'd be great if one of the devs could just take a day or two to change a few files and give us everything we want. I just don't think it works that way. There's more to it than we all realize.

Your just making broad generalizations about people wanting impossible things when the fact is that most things mentioned here are very humble and quite doable. I'm not going to reread every other fan site because I have read them in the past and never seen anyone with arguments much different from here. As for monetary limitations, Killing support for PS2 frees up a lot of Development, personnel and testing staff. People who could be figuring out how to do cool new things instead of how to make current things work on old shitty hardware. There are some things (ie. inventory) that they have all ready acknowledged knowing how to do, but have been unable to implement due to PS2 crap.

[Camiie]

What base engine? How is it PS2? The upgrades most people are asking for (inventory space) is changing a number. Despite all their (many) shortcomings, I think the dev team should still be able to do that... maybe... actually... nvm.


You know how when you log-in or zone, your inventory isn't necessarily available instantly? And when you're DC-ing you can't move things from or to your inventory? What's my point? Obviously our inventory is dependent on our connection to the server. What is increasing our inventory going to do to server load and bandwidth? That's another thing SE is going to have to think about before they start making a bunch of changes.

[Camiie]

Your just making broad generalizations about people wanting impossible things when the fact is that most things mentioned here are very humble and quite doable.


Proof that they're so easily doable? I'm not being sarcastic, I'd honestly like to see it if you have it.



I'm not going to reread every other fan site because I have read them in the past and never seen anyone with arguments much different from here. As for monetary limitations, Killing support for PS2 frees up a lot of Development, personnel and testing staff. People who could be figuring out how to do cool new things instead of how to make current things work on old shitty hardware. There are some things (ie. inventory) that they have all ready acknowledged knowing how to do, but have been unable to implement due to PS2 crap.


I never asked you to reread anything but what I wrote, but to be honest I don't think you really read my initial post or my reply. What's your proof that dropping PS2 support will really free up those resources (money and manpower) for FFXI development? They SHOULD, but that doesn't mean that they will. It'd be great if it was all as simple as you think it is. Trust me, I have a list of changes I'd love to see myself. I just don't believe that dropping PS2 is going to make all our dreams come true just like that.

[TetsujinX]

Acron you missed my point. I no longer have a PC.. my current laptop no longer works, meaning I do all of my work at the library. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that a PC could be gotten for free to 100$ in cost. at that low a price it would have just enough room to run the gam and only the game hence that comment. The second bibt you replied to was solely to show how far the current logic could take you. It was not meant to imply that was exactly what you are saying. I can't speak fo others that play on PS2, but I do so out of nessacity . The 360 version just flat out freezes too much to make reinstalling worth the time it takes. That is 4 hours I could have used playing other games or watching netflix or something. PC's are prohibitively expensive right now, and buying one just to play one game is a waste of money. That is my point. I honestly prefer the ps2 version as it is easier to work with for me, and is far more reliable than the 360 version. After having played with all 3 versions, the only complaint I can find between three is that the game causes 360's to freeze at the worst possible moment.

[zanlabik]

As for monetary limitations, Killing support for PS2 frees up a lot of Development, personnel and testing staff. People who could be figuring out how to do cool new things instead of how to make current things work on old shitty hardware. There are some things (ie. inventory) that they have all ready acknowledged knowing how to do, but have been unable to implement due to PS2 crap.

Using this logic, why not kill all support for anything not PC. This will free up all kinds of money. Hell, why stop with console platforms. Lets just kill all support and use that money for development.

[FrankReynolds]

Proof that they're so easily doable? I'm not being sarcastic, I'd honestly like to see it if you have it.
They already said that they could.






I never asked you to reread anything but what I wrote, but to be honest I don't think you really read my initial post or my reply. What's your proof that dropping PS2 support will really free up those resources (money and manpower) for FFXI development? They SHOULD, but that doesn't mean that they will. It'd be great if it was all as simple as you think it is. Trust me, I have a list of changes I'd love to see myself. I just don't believe that dropping PS2 is going to make all our dreams come true just like that.

Well at the very minimum they could fire all those people, but that still frees up money. Do you suppose they would discontinue support, send everyone home and just keep paying all the payroll and facility expenses for that department anyways just to prove a point for you?

[FrankReynolds]

You know how when you log-in or zone, your inventory isn't necessarily available instantly? And when you're DC-ing you can't move things from or to your inventory? What's my point? Obviously our inventory is dependent on our connection to the server. What is increasing our inventory going to do to server load and bandwidth? That's another thing SE is going to have to think about before they start making a bunch of changes.

Considering the dwindling player base, it is highly unlikely that bandwidth is going to ruin things.

[TetsujinX]

You guys do realize that in a year or so, maybe less, we will be having this same discussion but for 360 instead right? Dropping PS2 will lose them customers. That fact cannot be disputed. Assuming they do cut PS2 they will find other new content that developing for 360 will prevent them from implementing. At this point the PC users, wanting the new content, will push for cutting ties with the 360. They then will have lost at least half of their subscriptions at that point. Botttom line is Squenix is too shrewd a company (Or at least i would like to think so...) to lose subscriptions over platfrom choice. I don't see them cutting support for Sony.

[FrankReynolds]

You guys do realize that in a year or so, maybe less, we will be having this same discussion but for 360 instead right? Dropping PS2 will lose them customers. That fact cannot be disputed. Assuming they do cut PS2 they will find other new content that developing for 360 will prevent them from implementing. At this point the PC users, wanting the new content, will push for cutting ties with the 360. They then will have lost at least half of their subscriptions at that point. Botttom line is Squenix is too shrewd a company (Or at least i would like to think so...) to lose subscriptions over platfrom choice. I don't see them cutting support for Sony.

Maybe, I doubt it though, being as the 360 is basically a windows PC, it is a very easy port. The 360 is also still in production, and one of the most popular gaming systems available, where as the PS2......

No, I see them putting all of the responsibility on Sony to create a PS2 emulator. They made a 360 version because it was super easy. They haven't made a PS3 version because it's not easy. I'm sure it pissed Sony off a little.

[Teraniku]

One thing your forgeting is that the base engine for ffxi is ps2. They would have to rewrite the whole game to take ps2 out of the game. The upgrades you think you'll get from elimateing ps2 system, will only happen if they redo the whole game and include a new engine based on another base system, like ps3. Do you think they would redo the whole game?
They don't have to rewrite the whole game.

They can tweak the code to allow some of the PS2 limitations to go away. Redo the DirectX Wrapper to 9+. Then you'd be good for new areas and Graphics upgrades etc. Granted it's still a lot of work.

[TetsujinX]

This is still ignoring one major fact though. From an admittedly miniscule sample size, about half of the players play on console rather than PC.Amongst those the number of ps2 users is greater than anyone would like to admit. Until the 360 version is made more reliable, cutting the PS2 loose is just not a good business move.

While I am a fan of the PS2(overall), I am not letting that fact alone dictate my desicion to play on PS2. Even if I had a Pc right now, I would probably still use the PS2 for the game for 3 reasons. It would be a shared computer between 3 people, 2 of which need it for work, and 2 of which need it for school. Secondly, I just prefer to game on consoles. Personal preference I know, but still a valid reason for me. And finally, the unreliablity of the 360 port, which consdering the fact that it truly is just a stripped down PC should be a lot better than it is. Speaking for myself only, if my options were reduced to just the 360(as would be the case if sony support were dropped tonight) I would have to quit. I can't enjoy the game if I have to reset, and possibly reinstall every gaming session.

[FrankReynolds]

This is still ignoring one major fact though. From an admittedly miniscule sample size, about half of the players play on console rather than PC.Amongst those the number of ps2 users is greater than anyone would like to admit. Until the 360 version is made more reliable, cutting the PS2 loose is just not a good business move.

While I am a fan of the PS2(overall), I am not letting that fact alone dictate my desicion to play on PS2. Even if I had a Pc right now, I would probably still use the PS2 for the game for 3 reasons. It would be a shared computer between 3 people, 2 of which need it for work, and 2 of which need it for school. Secondly, I just prefer to game on consoles. Personal preference I know, but still a valid reason for me. And finally, the unreliablity of the 360 port, which consdering the fact that it truly is just a stripped down PC should be a lot better than it is. Speaking for myself only, if my options were reduced to just the 360(as would be the case if sony support were dropped tonight) I would have to quit. I can't enjoy the game if I have to reset, and possibly reinstall every gaming session.

I left my 360 running with mules in rolanberry fields for like 2 years and never had to reinstall. 1208 Days of playtime currently on my main. Over half of which is on 360. You are making false claims. The only honest thing you said is that you prefer PS2.

[TetsujinX]

Right i am making false claims. I definitely didn't freeze up everytime i attended any LS event. I was totally dreaming when I froze in abyssea in the middle of a briarius fight and had to reinstall losing me both my time in abyssea and the zone win. My LS decided to leave me out of events just because they don't like me, not because i freeze everytime there is more than 12 sprites on the screen. I made all of this up JUST to spite you becaus enothing microsoft makes is ever flawed. EVER. No one has ever complained about the game freezing during beseiged and dynamis. I am just coming up with all of these things because I hate the 360 so much that I bought one instead of the PS3. Maybe squenix and Microsoft purposely do something so that only my 360 freezes when i play FFXi in an effort to make me quit, because that hate my money that much...

All that being said here comes the actual reply...

You are in the minority if yous has NEVER frozen on FFXI. Of course it could just be that your 360 is newer than mine, but who has the cash to go out and buy a newer version everytime it comes out? Just because YOURS doesn't freeze on this game doesn't meant that NO ONES freezes. Out of my 7(excluding myself) rl friends that play the game on 360 4 have the exact same problem, but I guess they are making it up too. If 4/7 in RL and 3 out of 5(estimate. I just know a metric shit ton were either laughin at or crying about it) people were making fun of the same problem in shouting matches in whitegate, I myself could not call that a fabrication.

[Tsuneo]

How about you just both play on the superior platform. Honestly though 360 isn't the problem in FFXI. I personally can't stand playing on consoles, but 360 definitely isn't holding FFXI back at all. Also, freezing or not freezing isn't really an issue relevant in this thread. Such things don't really affect the future of the game. Those things are just inconveniences to the player at the time.

[zanlabik]

Instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches and chasing the PS2 out of town, maybe SE will find a way to work around the HDD and get rid of it.

All I know is, if I had to move to 360 or PC I would quit playing.

Viva la PS2!!

[Tsuneo]

How exactly can you get rid of a storage device? That doesn't make much sense to me.

[Leonlionheart]

Instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches and chasing the PS2 out of town, maybe SE will find a way to work around the HDD and get rid of it.

All I know is, if I had to move to 360 or PC I would quit playing.

Viva la PS2!!

Well actually that's impossible, as stated several HUNDRED times on this forum.

Yeah, Sony actually only partitions 10gb of space possible per game and it really has nothing to do with SE.

Only way around this, toss the friggen thing. It's a totally low quality way to play in the first place.

[Eric]

I don't really understand why all of these PS2 enthusiasts are so delusional. I'm going to reiterate some of the points I made, and add some new ones in a tl;dr format, since apparently forming a well-thought argument using paragraphs is how you get PS2 users to ignore your posts.


If you're too poor to afford a $60 computer on eBay, then you have bigger problems to worry about than not being able to play FFXI. Quitting and spending all that time and money trying to find a higher-paying job (or trying to get that promotion at McDonald's, etc.) would be the smart thing to do.

The PS2 population is only decreasing. Consoles break, people quit. There are no new players starting the game on PS2 for a huge variety of reasons. The 2 other platforms are still bringing in new players. You delusional PS2 players are not the majority (or even that large of a chunk) of the player base.

If you want to play with a controller, buy a $10 controller adapter for your PC, and voila! You can now play on PC with a PS2 controller.

Like it or not, there are PS2 limitations holding the game back. Hard drive space, inventory space. SE has specifically said these two things are PS2 limitations.

I hope your PS2 hard drive malfunctions like mine did a few months ago. (I use it to play Resident Evil: Outbreak. I wouldn't willingly put myself through the pain of playing FFXI on PS2.)

[Gilraen]

I play the PS2 version almost exclusively. I started on the PS2 back a few months before Treasures was released. I don't much like playing on the PC (and I actually do hate Microsoft so no 360 in my game room) because the PC version behaves really strangely from what I've seen (yes, I do maintain a PC install for when those PS2 limitations rear their ugly heads). Dusk and dawn occur on the PC version in almost jarring bursts, no transition at all. Names spawn with the targets killing what is a useful visual cue for aggro range on the PS2. There's other issues on top of those but they're are many small little quips like subdued colors and flat textures. Now, I say I play the PS2 version and not just PS2 because I do have one of those old PS3s ( a 60g, complete with it's hardware BC) and, honestly, I would stop playing if I couldn't use the PS2 version anymore. It's hard to get around the various oddities of the PC version.

All that said, I did not check Windows PC in the survey because I don't play on Windows. I play on Ubuntu via Wine. Yeah, I don't like Microsoft. At all. Period.

[Leonlionheart]

Honestly, everyone says they're going to quit.

1 month after that, they'll come back.

JUST DO IT SE.

[Arcon]

I play the PS2 version almost exclusively. I started on the PS2 back a few months before Treasures was released. I don't much like playing on the PC (and I actually do hate Microsoft so no 360 in my game room) because the PC version behaves really strangely from what I've seen (yes, I do maintain a PC install for when those PS2 limitations rear their ugly heads). Dusk and dawn occur on the PC version in almost jarring bursts, no transition at all. Names spawn with the targets killing what is a useful visual cue for aggro range on the PS2. There's other issues on top of those but they're are many small little quips like subdued colors and flat textures. Now, I say I play the PS2 version and not just PS2 because I do have one of those old PS3s ( a 60g, complete with it's hardware BC) and, honestly, I would stop playing if I couldn't use the PS2 version anymore. It's hard to get around the various oddities of the PC version.

All that said, I did not check Windows PC in the survey because I don't play on Windows. I play on Ubuntu via Wine. Yeah, I don't like Microsoft. At all. Period.

I didn't even know about those oddities. The first one I've never seen. the second one seems like a technical limitation of the PS2 (I didn't know about it). The third seems wrong, are you saying your game looks better on the PS2? For someone who manages to use such a crappy operating system it seems weird that you can't adjust the settings for FFXI. You can't possibly tell me your game looks anything even remotely like this:
http://95.156.209.71/pub/ffxi/pics/img_20110904_170159.png

[Eric]

It's selfish and stubborn to base your ideology for not wanting to play FFXI on a computer from your experiences with playing FFXI on WINE (which will never run as well as FFXI on a *real* PC).

Your extreme grudge against Microsoft also gives us a view into the sort of stubborn mindset that plagues most PS2 players. I am glad that SE is requiring players to use a PC to update and manage their FFXI accounts, because by doing so, they are insuring that every single player has access to a PC.

What I've learned from this thread is that it's only the loud minority of PS2 players who are against dropping PS2 support. People say "PC users are the majority here, because you need a pc to view the forums". Well guess what? It's not only PC users who are on the forums. As I've said before, the new billing system requires people to use a PC. It would be foolish to think that PS2 users are being underrepresented. The truth is that you are just not as big of a group as you previously had thought.

EDIT: Arcon, what background resolution are you using?

[FrankReynolds]

Right i am making false claims. I definitely didn't freeze up everytime i attended any LS event. I was totally dreaming when I froze in abyssea in the middle of a briarius fight and had to reinstall losing me both my time in abyssea and the zone win. My LS decided to leave me out of events just because they don't like me, not because i freeze everytime there is more than 12 sprites on the screen. I made all of this up JUST to spite you becaus enothing microsoft makes is ever flawed. EVER. No one has ever complained about the game freezing during beseiged and dynamis. I am just coming up with all of these things because I hate the 360 so much that I bought one instead of the PS3. Maybe squenix and Microsoft purposely do something so that only my 360 freezes when i play FFXi in an effort to make me quit, because that hate my money that much...

All that being said here comes the actual reply...

You are in the minority if yous has NEVER frozen on FFXI. Of course it could just be that your 360 is newer than mine, but who has the cash to go out and buy a newer version everytime it comes out? Just because YOURS doesn't freeze on this game doesn't meant that NO ONES freezes. Out of my 7(excluding myself) rl friends that play the game on 360 4 have the exact same problem, but I guess they are making it up too. If 4/7 in RL and 3 out of 5(estimate. I just know a metric shit ton were either laughin at or crying about it) people were making fun of the same problem in shouting matches in white gate, I myself could not call that a fabrication.

lol If I go shout with my friends in Port Jeuno (in case your wondering, nobody wants to hear your BS complaints in shouts in WG) about why you should move from PS2, will that make it a fact? Sounds to me like your a flake who blames his force D/C on his system.

[FrankReynolds]

Linux is for web servers and databases. If you want to do everything the hard way, try porting FFXI to Atari. Or better yet make your own server, and only play with people that use PONG wheels to control the game. I'm Not impressed by your desire to play on an out of production platform or an OS that was not intended to run the game in the first place.

However, "If my PS2 breaks, I will quit the game." is a great argument for not supporting the PS2 so please keep that up.

If I was SE, and I heard everyone with a PS2 saying "If my PS2 breaks and I have to get the PC version I will quit..." I would drop those soon to be non customers like a bad habit. Why support customers who are going to quit as soon as their console that is running on hope and rainbows dies? I'm surprised any of those still work.

I think Square Enix should start a PS2 only server. Just so they can clock that $25 per char fee when they all try to transfer to the PC / 360 servers. Then they can make PS2 Onry people transfer at their leisure and charge them for being stubborn. Its a win / win.

[Arcon]

EDIT: Arcon, what background resolution are you using?

Overlay 1920 x 1080, background 2048 x 2048. Try that on your PS2, Gilraen.

[Eric]

I love how all of the "arguments" for why PS2 support should not be dropped are nothing but personal anecdotes about how poor, ignorant, or stubborn these people can be.

That being said, I feel bad for all of the non-retarded PS2 players, because the people in this thread are just a terrible representation of the PS2 playerbase.

[FrankReynolds]

I didn't even know about those oddities. The first one I've never seen. the second one seems like a technical limitation of the PS2 (I didn't know about it). The third seems wrong, are you saying your game looks better on the PS2? For someone who manages to use such a crappy operating system it seems weird that you can't adjust the settings for FFXI. You can't possibly tell me your game looks anything even remotely like this:
http://95.156.209.71/pub/ffxi/pics/img_20110904_170159.png

He cant see that resolution, he still uses a Green screen monitor because he doesn't support the separate GPU model computers (they are just trying to force you to buy newer parts)

[Atomic_Skull]

Overlay 1920 x 1080, background 2048 x 2048. Try that on your PS2, Gilraen.

Ideally you should be using 3840x2160

[Arcon]

Ideally you should be using 3840x2160

Was just too lazy to edit the registry yet (new install), selected this from the FFXI Config Utility.

[Dragoy]

All that said, I did not check Windows PC in the survey because I don't play on Windows. I play on Ubuntu via Wine. Yeah, I don't like Microsoft. At all. Period.
I would (and did) still check the Windows version, as that is essentially what you (and I) are using.


Moreover, I wanted to note that the game runs perfectly fine for me under Gentoo Linux, which I have been using almost exactly a year now, and it runs modern graphically intense games better than need be as well.

It is not quite the same as Ubuntu (some say it's an African word for "Gentoo is too difficult for me" though not that I agree with that sentiment), but I am sure not many are interested on those details here. ~grin~

Sure, applications made for that windoz thing at the time will not run to the same limits under *nix, but if your machine is capable, they will run more than adequate. And things are getting better and better all the time. If only more developers would opt OpenGL instead of DirectX, it would be even more better, and likely sooner.

The mind-set of 'Linux being only for servers and whatnot' seems awfully closed-minded to me. Not that it really concerns me; I just wanted to note that it's not as unusable as some might make it seem, quite the contrary, I feel like I am able to do more, and speficially I am able to control more myself, and do things the way I want to, not the way they decided I should do. I have not had the need to boot up window$ during the year that I've used Gentoo, and I can't really even start to describe how happy I am about that.


But I digress.


I don't intend on railing the topic to these tracks; just felt like saying this!
Kind Regards,

[Gilraen]

Before I figured out how to install FFXI in Wine I did play it in Windows (I run a dual boot system just to use those programs and games I can't run in Wine or Ubuntu, a population I can count on one hand) and it had all the same nuances that I described in my previous post so, from my experience, it's not OS-centric but rather an issue in the game itself.

Though, personally, I do find the PS2 version looks better and runs smoother. It's a shame that it is becoming ever more difficult to use with each version update (the July update broke alot of NPCs on the PS2 client, which is what prompted the move of the outpost warp NPCs, as well as many cutscenes though some cutscenes have been broken for far longer). I freely acknowledge all that but I will not stop playing on the PS2 version, it's just better I think.

[Dragoy]

Though, personally, I do find the PS2 version looks better and runs smoother.
Would you elaborate on that?

Especially what do you mean by 'smoother'?
As in just the frame-rate seems higher, or are there some jerky issues you are experiencing otherwise?

Since Final Fantasy XI was never released for the PS2 here, I have not witnessed it first hand so it's a bit difficult to imagine how it could be better. ^^;

[Arcon]

Since Final Fantasy XI was never released for the PS2 here, I have not witnessed it first hand so it's a bit difficult to imagine how it could be better. ^^;

It can't, he's making it up. FFXI on the PS2 is the same as the PC version on almost the lowest settings. And these glitches he mentions only exist for him, if he isn't lying it's probably due to outdated graphics card drivers.

[Dragoy]

Yeah I can imagine it with the settings and all, but I was wondering about the 'smoother' part particularly as it could possibly be explained in a way or another.

[Gilraen]

I play with a controller and I've noticed a half-second delay on the PC version (in Wine and in Windows) that doesn't exist in the PS2 version. Could just be a driver problem but it is disconcerting enough to make my use of the PC version sparing. Further, it's tricky playing without a controller (can't take the controller everywhere while my computer, a laptop, has no such problem).

On top of all that, people seem to forget that FFXI was originally designed with the PS2 in mind, the PC version was a port to capitalize on the growing PC market as PCs started to get more and more affordable. It's sad how people 'conveniently' forget that little fact.

[Mirage]

Maybe that's sad, but do you know what's funny? How you think that actually means anything. FFXI was never intended to be a console-only game, even if the PS2 version came first.

[FrankReynolds]

I play with a controller and I've noticed a half-second delay on the PC version (in Wine and in Windows) that doesn't exist in the PS2 version. Could just be a driver problem but it is disconcerting enough to make my use of the PC version sparing. Further, it's tricky playing without a controller (can't take the controller everywhere while my computer, a laptop, has no such problem).

On top of all that, people seem to forget that FFXI was originally designed with the PS2 in mind, the PC version was a port to capitalize on the growing PC market as PCs started to get more and more affordable. It's sad how people 'conveniently' forget that little fact.

You are blaming a computer for user error.

[Volkai]

It's dirt-cheap to upgrade from a PS2 to any other platform this game supports.
No, it is not. Because you need a hard drive unit to run it on X360 you're looking at greater than USD$250, more likely $300, to get that going. For a PC you'll probably be spending as much or more unless you have enough technical proficiency to put together your own computer from parts. That is not dirt cheap. If you think it is, then you probably need to re-evaluate your sense of scale.

To be clear, USD$250 is the equivalent of roughly USD$12.95 x 20 or paying for one year and eight months of FFXI with one character slot. Are you willing to pay one-and-two-thirds-years worth of FFXI just to switch to another platform for the sole purpase of playing the exact same game? I doubt it. Don't bring up all the other things you can do with a PC or X360, as they are irrelevant to the topic at hand.


This is not a new concept. How many of us "upgraded" from a NES to a SNES(SNES to 64, 64 to Gamecube, Gamecube to Wii, etc) to get the new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, or even FF titles? How many went from PS1 to PS2 in the first place? Times change, platforms upgrade, it's how it is. Been like this since the late 70's-early 80's.
Better question, how many of us "upgraded" from an NES to an SNES to continue playing Super Mario Brothers 3 or Zelda II: The Adventure of Link or FINAL FANTASY (I)? The answer is NOBODY. You upgraded to buy NEW (and presumably better) GAMES, not to keep playing the games you already owned.

To clarify:
NES - Super Mario Brothers 3, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, FINAL FANTASY.
SNES - Super Mario World, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Metroid 3: Super Metroid, FINAL FANTASY III (actually VI)

Your analogy fits if you want to talk about going from FINAL FANTASY XI: Online to FINAL FANTASY XIV: Online. For FFXI alone, it does not match.

[Dragoy]

I play with a controller and I've noticed a half-second delay on the PC version (in Wine and in Windows) that doesn't exist in the PS2 version. Could just be a driver problem but it is disconcerting enough to make my use of the PC version sparing.
I personally prefer the keyboard actually (probably mainly because I multi-task a lot while playing, and a game-pad can only do so much heh), but I have tried and sometimes use a PS2-controller via an adapter, and I have not experienced such an issue under neither windoze nor Linux, so there should indeed be something funky there for you.

I completely agree that such a delay would most certainly be a grand annoyance.

[FrankReynolds]

I personally prefer the keyboard actually (probably mainly because I multi-task a lot while playing, and a game-pad can only do so much heh), but I have tried and sometimes use a PS2-controller via an adapter, and I have not experienced such an issue under neither windoze nor Linux, so there should indeed be something funky there for you.

I completely agree that such a delay would most certainly be a grand annoyance.

I play with a 360 controller, and a Logitech, and I have never had issues with delay or heard of this problem until now.

[Arcon]

No, it is not. Because you need a hard drive unit to run it on X360 you're looking at greater than USD$250, more likely $300, to get that going. For a PC you'll probably be spending as much or more unless you have enough technical proficiency to put together your own computer from parts. That is not dirt cheap. If you think it is, then you probably need to re-evaluate your sense of scale.

Blah. You clearly haven't been reading this thread, and the other one specifically dedicated to finding cheap hardware. Computers that can run FFXI better than the PS2 ever will are available fully assembled from legitimate stores from $40 upwards (which I found out after a 30 seconds Google search for "cheap computers"). I posted links a few pages back.


Better question, how many of us "upgraded" from an NES to an SNES to continue playing Super Mario Brothers 3 or Zelda II: The Adventure of Link or FINAL FANTASY (I)? The answer is NOBODY. You upgraded to buy NEW (and presumably better) GAMES, not to keep playing the games you already owned.

Your analogy fits if you want to talk about going from FINAL FANTASY XI: Online to FINAL FANTASY XIV: Online. For FFXI alone, it does not match.

Again, blah. As we've said before, MMORPGs are different than other games. Did you play Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES for eigth years? Can't be compared. FFXI evolves, it's not static. You can't possibly argue that the current FFXI is the same as the one eigth years ago (to scale, it has more than tripled in size since then). So again, no argument there.

[Volkai]

Blah. You clearly haven't been reading this thread, and the other one specifically dedicated to finding cheap hardware. Computers that can run FFXI better than the PS2 ever will are available fully assembled from legitimate stores from $40 upwards (which I found out after a 30 seconds Google search for "cheap computers"). I posted links a few pages back.
News to me. I've yet to see any computer worth using that is sold for less than USD$100. Especially one that includes, say, a monitor. If it doesn't come with everything you need to play FFXI, you have to add those extra parts piecemeal to the total cost, or else you're misreperesenting the cost involved.



Again, blah. As we've said before, MMORPGs are different than other games. Did you play Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES for eigth years? Can't be compared. FFXI evolves, it's not static. You can't possibly argue that the current FFXI is the same as the one eigth years ago (to scale, it has more than tripled in size since then). So again, no argument there. Actually I DID play Super Mario Bos. 3 on the NES for eight years. Similarly, I STILL play The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past on the SNES that I acquired in 1993. I like to play old games as well as new ones. Just like I STILL play FINAL FANTASY XI: Online.

The problem you have here is not with my refutation of Rayik's analogy, but with Rayik's analogy. Address that.

[FrankReynolds]

News to me. I've yet to see any computer worth using that is sold for less than USD$100. Especially one that includes, say, a monitor.

It doesn't really take a "computer worth using" to run this game at better than PS2 graphics. But there is a whole thread full of links to them if you'd care to look.


If it doesn't come with everything you need to play FFXI, you have to add those extra parts piecemeal to the total cost, or else you're misreperesenting the cost involved.

Most TVs have VGA inputs nowadays. There are cheap adapters for those that don't (If you feel so inclined to play on a really low res screen).

I don't know, if they came out with legend of zelda for PC, and it had new content but same game engine.... I'd probably want to play it. I don't think I'd get all butt hurt that it wont run on my 20 year old NES.

[Volkai]

It doesn't really take a "computer worth using" to run this game at better than PS2 graphics. But there is a whole thread full of links to them if you'd care to look.
In this context, "worth using" means "able to install and run FINAL FANTASY XI: Online and its expansions and add-ons Rise of the Zilart, Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan, Wings of the Goddess, A Crystalline Prophecy, A Moogle Kupo d'Etat, A Shantotto Ascension, Vision of Abyssea, Scars of Abyssea, and Heroes of Abyssea* with enough performance as to be reasonably operable (which may be represented by statistics such as a frame rate of equal to or greater than 30 Frames Per Second**)".

* These all must be able to be installed and run because these are the client and expansions and add-ons currently available on PS2.
** The PS2 client operates at this frame rate.


Most TVs have VGA inputs nowadays. There are cheap adapters for those that don't (If you feel so inclined to play on a really low res screen). Since we are speaking of players already operating using a PS2, you don't need to include the cost of a TV, but you will need to include the cost of such an adapter, or of a monitor. Also keep in mind that PS2 players may be using an older TV that only has a coaxial cable input.


I don't know, if they came out with legend of zelda for PC, and it had new content but same game engine.... I'd probably want to play it. I don't think I'd get all butt hurt that it wont run on my 20 year old NES. That's a new release, not the same game. To make a proper analogy to FFXI, consider the Test Server. The FINAL FANTASY XI: Online Test Server client requires PC only. It is not available for PS2 or X360, and I take no issue with that. I doubt many PS2 or X360 players do -- though I have no evidence to back that up. But again, that is a new Client, not the same one already released.

It is not a problem to release a new client with additional content that is not available on PS2. It IS a problem to cut off access to the existing client and content that IS available on PS2.

Do you understand what I am saying here? Or do I need to clarify it further? Because I am willing to do so if it is necesary to ensure you understand the issue here.

[Gilraen]

Arguing with people who are wielding shovels and have a headstone with PS2's name on it is pointless. They don't really care about anyone but themselves so it's better to stand on your own opinions and experiences and acknowledgements. I freely acknowledge the limitations imposed by the PS2 version but that is the only version I swear by because of my experiences with both it and the PC version. I don't expect people to understand my decisions but I would appreciate it if people respected them. I'm not sitting here calling them out on their insistence on the PC version, after all. To each their own.

Just understand that if Square drops the PS2 it will have a negative impact on the community beyond just 'a handful of people'.

[FrankReynolds]

You guys try to make it sound like every PS2 player lives in a cave with no food and water and a crappy tube TV, Living solely off of the light rays emanated from FFXI on the screen.

[Leonlionheart]

Arguing with people who are wielding shovels and have a headstone with PS2's name on it is pointless. They don't really care about anyone but themselves so it's better to stand on your own opinions and experiences and acknowledgements. I freely acknowledge the limitations imposed by the PS2 version but that is the only version I swear by because of my experiences with both it and the PC version. I don't expect people to understand my decisions but I would appreciate it if people respected them. I'm not sitting here calling them out on their insistence on the PC version, after all. To each their own.

Just understand that if Square drops the PS2 it will have a negative impact on the community beyond just 'a handful of people'.

No, it won't. Because people play on PC.

I've known several people who switched over, and actually did say "WTF HAVE I BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME GIMPING IT UP ON PS2?!"

[FrankReynolds]

What are you even talking about? Is this post intended to have no relevance?
It's relevant in the sense that you are trying to portray PS2 players as completely inept individuals who don't own computers, can't afford computers and are too Dumb to figure out how to get one even if they could. When the fact is that you are clinging to a console that you have gotten your moneys worth out of, and its holding back the rest of the community.

PS2 players are not all broke and horribly inconvenienced by having to buy these newfangled computer thingamajigs.

[Kimara]

No, it won't. Because people play on PC.

I've known several people who switched over, and actually did say "WTF HAVE I BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME GIMPING IT UP ON PS2?!"

Agreed, ever since my husband switched to PC I have never seen him play on PS2 again. I converted him muahahahaha <3

[TybudX]

** The PS2 client operates at this frame rate.

So does everything else. The frame rate is capped across systems. It's part of the reason 10 year old hardware can play this game at more than 'max' settings.


Do you understand what I am saying here? Or do I need to clarify it further? Because I am willing to do so if it is necesary to ensure you understand the issue here.

And while you are, go look into a $60 laptop from 2006. It comes with everything you think you need to play the game, except your ps2 controller... which you already have. Anything else we're missing there, sport?


... it's better to stand on your own opinions and experiences and acknowledgements.

[Joslyn]

everyone here is making both valid and reasonable points, the fact of the matter is its totally up to SE to decide whether or not to remove support of PS2. FFXI is and will always just be a game. Yes it does have room for expansion,but just like some great past MMORPG's as time goes on it does get stale. Limitations on both sides will kill this game not just hardware. In order for it to keep surviving the game as a whole would need to be redone. Would removing ps2 support help? possibly but just like EQ there is only so much that be made for the game before nobody will play it.

What would be great is if SE would revisit the possibility to do a version for PS3 with HD and trophy support. Them saying that will not happen because of coding issue is complete BS, they only have to look at Konami,Ubisoft, and even there own crew at Eidos to see how it would be done. Time is not the issue..Money is and they have decided to throw there eggs in with FFXIV instead of the game that is a cash cow.

My 2 cents

[Volkai]

It's relevant in the sense that you are trying to portray PS2 players as completely inept individuals who don't own computers, can't afford computers and are too Dumb to figure out how to get one even if they could.
You are wrong. That is not what I am trying to do. Maybe you should stop making assumptions about the motivations of other people. What I am pointing out is that not all PS2 players necessarily own or can afford a computer or other platform on which to play FFXI.

When the fact is that you are clinging to a console that you have gotten your moneys worth out of, and its holding back the rest of the community. That is not a fact. I am not at all clinging to a console. I personally switched to PC about four years ago. But I don't have to play on a console to use logic to make the case for continuing console support.


PS2 players are not all broke and horribly inconvenienced by having to buy these newfangled computer thingamajigs.If you are saying that "Not all PS2 players are broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then I agree with you. HOWEVER if what you are saying is that "All PS2 players are NOT broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then that is a point on which we cannot agree.

It is my hope that you can recognize the difference between these two statements, and the importance of that difference.

[Volkai]

Just understand that if Square drops the PS2 it will have a negative impact on the community beyond just 'a handful of people'.No, it won't. Because people play on PC.
Yes, it will. Because more than a handful of people play on not-PC.


I've known several people who switched over, and actually did say "WTF HAVE I BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME GIMPING IT UP ON PS2?!"
That's anecdotal. Not all players that switch from PS2 to PC will have this reaction. Furthermore this does not at all address the case of current PS2 players who do not have a PC to play on, edge case though it may (or may not) be.

As an example, when I switched from PS2 to PC, my reaction was more along the lines of "Well it's nice to have a better screen resolution, but really, what's the big deal? It's still the same game." Say what you will, one anecdote is as valid as another. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

[Minkaa]

While it may increase overall game limits to drop PS2 support, those improvements will not happen overnight. It would require a lot of code updates and given the work that SE is already engaged in regarding FFXI updates, the players would not likely notice these changes for quite a while. In the meantime, by dropping support for an entire console, they would have alienated a significant percentage of the game's player base, which will weaken the game overall, and decrease the revenue that would be needed to make said adjustments over the long haul.

In a world rife with shiny new MMOs coming out every other day, I'd rather see FFXI stay diverse and accommodating rather than forcefully narrowing its audience.

[Economizer]

Why are PS2 users so afraid of the transition? The new features won't come overnight, and the PS2 won't be dropped overnight. Both will take time and be very well announced.

If FFXI does not drop PS2 support eventually (not immediately, but over time), FFXI WILL DIE. I don't think anyone here wants SE to say tomorrow that PS2 support is dropped immediately, but we do want SE to have a plan for depreciating support over a slated time period, since Sony won't give us more then 10GB on the PS2.

The hard drive space is the most important resource, followed by eliminating the crappy amounts of RAM that the PS2 has. SE can probably keep skirting the RAM limitations, but since they can't get around the hard drive limitation, we have no choice. The slow (so don't worry, unless you are just trying to kill FFXI) transition must be made. The PS2 goes or FFXI does.

If you want FFXI to die, then you have no place in these forums. Go away trolls.

[Volkai]

Why are PS2 users so afraid of the transition? The new features won't come overnight, and the PS2 won't be dropped overnight. Both will take time and be very well announced.

If FFXI does not drop PS2 support eventually (not immediately, but over time), FFXI WILL DIE. I don't think anyone here wants SE to say tomorrow that PS2 support is dropped immediately, but we do want SE to have a plan for depreciating support over a slated time period, since Sony won't give us more then 10GB on the PS2.

The hard drive space is the most important resource, followed by eliminating the crappy amounts of RAM that the PS2 has. SE can probably keep skirting the RAM limitations, but since they can't get around the hard drive limitation, we have no choice. The slow (so don't worry, unless you are just trying to kill FFXI) transition must be made. The PS2 goes or FFXI does.

If you want FFXI to die, then you have no place in these forums. Go away trolls.
I feel like I've seen this "If FFXI does not drop PS2 support it will die, therefore all people who think PS2 support should be maintained are trolls" argument before. It does not hold up, and it's borderline to an ad hominem attack, to boot. Specifically, it does not hold up because you can put out a new client for PC and add further updates to it that do not impact PS2 support, and you do not need to drop PS2 support to do so. Consider that there is a Test Server client that is PC-only, and it has in no way impacted PS2 support.

Furthermore, it's wrong to assume that only PS2 players and/or trolls would recommend continued PS2 support. Stop assuming those that do not agree with you do so out of fear and/or maliciousness.

[FrankReynolds]

You are wrong. That is not what I am trying to do. Maybe you should stop making assumptions about the motivations of other people. What I am pointing out is that not all PS2 players necessarily own or can afford a computer or other platform on which to play FFXI.

You are stating it as if it is a majority of the population and therefore relevant. The portion that cannot afford it would have to be large in order for you to justify using that argument. by continuously using it in this thread you are by extension suggesting that it is a large portion.[/quote]



That is not a fact. I am not at all clinging to a console. I personally switched to PC about four years ago. But I don't have to play on a console to use logic to make the case for continuing console support.

So what exactly are you supporting it for? the lack of new content? the numerous other hindrances that it brings to the game?


If you are saying that "Not all PS2 players are broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then I agree with you. HOWEVER if what you are saying is that "All PS2 players are NOT broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then that is a point on which we cannot agree.

It is my hope that you can recognize the difference between these two statements, and the importance of that difference.

That was unnecessarily convoluted. MOST PS2 players either have or can easily have a different means of playing. Further more, They are playing on equipment that has a finite lifespan and is Either not replaceable or is replaceable at a cost that is similar to upgrading. In the mean time, the consoles they play on are a hindrance to the betterment of the game. We would all benefit from upgrading them. People who are going to quit if they can't play on PS2 are This ---> <---- close to quitting anyways. People who won't upgrade because they can't are so few and far between that they are not worth counting in the census.

The guy who has been paying for video game for like 10 years and can't afford or doesn't already have a pc / 360 is such a miniscule crowd that its ridiculous.

[FrankReynolds]

I feel like I've seen this "If FFXI does not drop PS2 support it will die, therefore all people who think PS2 support should be maintained are trolls" argument before. It does not hold up, and it's borderline to an ad hominem attack, to boot. Specifically, it does not hold up because you can put out a new client for PC and add further updates to it that do not impact PS2 support, and you do not need to drop PS2 support to do so. Consider that there is a Test Server client that is PC-only, and it has in no way impacted PS2 support.

SO you would be ok having PS2 on separate servers that don't get the PC /360 updates like the test servers to now?

[TetsujinX]

How about you just both play on the superior platform. Honestly though 360 isn't the problem in FFXI. I personally can't stand playing on consoles, but 360 definitely isn't holding FFXI back at all. Also, freezing or not freezing isn't really an issue relevant in this thread. Such things don't really affect the future of the game. Those things are just inconveniences to the player at the time.

It is very relevant considering you are trying to sway Squenix to do away with my only viable option to play the game. That is less money the get in, which though a mere drop in the bucket, still affects the future of the game. There is no such thing as a problem being unique to an individual, meaning the would lose more than ust one person for the exact same reason.

[Leonlionheart]

While it may increase overall game limits to drop PS2 support, those improvements will not happen overnight. It would require a lot of code updates and given the work that SE is already engaged in regarding FFXI updates, the players would not likely notice these changes for quite a while. In the meantime, by dropping support for an entire console, they would have alienated a significant percentage of the game's player base, which will weaken the game overall, and decrease the revenue that would be needed to make said adjustments over the long haul.

Would they lose money though? Do you know this to be fact?

SE wouldn't question this if money wasn't an issue. At some point, since PS2 player base is probably constantly dwindling with the machine breaking, too much headache over re-installs, realizing PC is far superior, etcetera, it probably costs more to keep up PS2 support rather than just drop it all together.

I'd put money on the fact that SE is dropping it because they aren't really gaining anything from the 6 people that still play on the pos.

[TetsujinX]

lol If I go shout with my friends in Port Jeuno (in case your wondering, nobody wants to hear your BS complaints in shouts in WG) about why you should move from PS2, will that make it a fact? Sounds to me like your a flake who blames his force D/C on his system.

Right... so next you are about to tell me what I wore to bed last night? Since you are obviously sitting in my living room watching everything I do. Come off it, man. You have some kind of personal grudge against Sony for whatever reason. Were it not for the constant freezing I would play on 360. Wait... actually I wouldn't. The game just runs better on ps2 than it does 360. And before you jump in with all your "cheap used PC" arguments, the amount of space on said PC makes it impossible for me to fit all the other programs needed for it to serve any practical purposes, meaning I would be buying a PC specifically to play this game. Who in their right mind does that? Wait I guess you do...

Bottom line, just because your experiences differ from mine, does not make them false. I would invite you over to watch them in action and giv eyou numbers to talk to the others, but you'd just tell me I force D/C'ed whileI was in the middle of owning whatever NM I decided to fight. So nevermind. I mean that and the fact that your are probably standing over my shoulder watching me type this

[FrankReynolds]

Let's do some quick math. lets assume for the purpose of shits and giggles that SE has 1 programmer, and 1 tester who do all the PS2 stuff. Lets assume they are grossly underpaid and make $30,000 a year each. How many people who are unable or unwilling to transfer their accounts do we need just to support those two employees and still break even?

[TetsujinX]

Actually now that I think about it, this thread is pointless. With the account transfer, POL and the POL viewer no longer serve a purpose. Once they drop the POL viewer, and they will, Both PS2 and 360 are out the window, as the both require the viewer to access the game.

[Joslyn]

They wont drop the POL viewer but just strip it down.

[Volkai]

Actually now that I think about it, this thread is pointless. With the account transfer, POL and the POL viewer no longer serve a purpose. Once they drop the POL viewer, and they will, Both PS2 and 360 are out the window, as the both require the viewer to access the game.

IIRC, it's already been stated that POL is NOT going to be dropped because it is still necessary for logging into FFXI.

[Volkai]

Let's do some quick math. lets assume for the purpose of shits and giggles that SE has 1 programmer, and 1 tester who do all the PS2 stuff. Lets assume they are grossly underpaid and make $30,000 a year each. How many people who are unable or unwilling to transfer their accounts do we need just to support those two employees and still break even?

What makes you think that FFXI programmers are assigned to develop on a single platform?

[Leonlionheart]

Let's do some quick math. lets assume for the purpose of shits and giggles that SE has 1 programmer, and 1 tester who do all the PS2 stuff. Lets assume they are grossly underpaid and make $30,000 a year each. How many people who are unable or unwilling to transfer their accounts do we need just to support those two employees and still break even?

387

Even though some people can read this, it makes me feel better that I can't.

[Joslyn]

387

Even though some people can read this, it makes me feel better that I can't.

And that was all without a single drop of Rum

[Economizer]

Here is an example: We run out of things that absolutely have to be on the PS2 version also, spells. gear, and abilities to be able to add, due to a PS2 limitation that SE cannot program around (hardware). Since we cannot add more things due to the PS2 version, the game cannot expand. Since the game cannot expand, the game dies.

[Volkai]

Here is an example: We run out of things that absolutely have to be on the PS2 version also, spells. gear, and abilities to be able to add, due to a PS2 limitation that SE cannot program around (hardware). Since we cannot add more things due to the PS2 version, the game cannot expand. Since the game cannot expand, the game dies.
Solution: Add a new expansion. PS2 users cannot get it. Expansion adds areas that PS2 users cannot access, but X360/PC can. PS2 users still have access to everything that's already out.

BAM! The game continues to grow without locking PS2 users out of the game entirely. A solution is found.