Summoner Job Abilities idea

[Smokenttp]

For a long time square is trying to get smns let theirs avatars out but theres some issues like perpetuation costs and blood pact mp costs that make most of people avoid leting avatars out.

Well while looking at pup job abilities i figured why not something on the lines of tatical switch for smn but instead of just exange tp it gives smn mp based on avatar tp and summoning magic skill (something along the lines of (avatar tp+magic skill) *2),also i belive this ability should be given to the smns at around level 30-50, when mp starts to become an issue while partying.


While they are at it maybe a secound job ability to convert avatar tp into avatar HP (again involving TP and summoning magic skill maybe even the same formulae) would also help to wanna keep the avatar you want out (and pretty much helping avatar favor being usefull) this one i belive should come in a bit higer but not 90+ somewhere around 60 would be fine.


About the recasts on those , they should be around 3 mins max so they become actually usefull or maybe even share recast with blood pacts(blood pacts would still go out at 1min-45 secounds).


I would like some feed back on those, if they are viable or not but i think they are pretty solid and not gamebreaking. thanks.

[Glitch]

MP is a bit of a challenge outside of Abyssea, but only if you are a primary or greatly used support healer in addition to using your BPs. I know, I know, what SMN isn't expected to be a significant support healer? I'm not completely sold on the idea that SMN needs more MP replenishment though. By utilizing Avatar perp. cost - gear and stacking autorefresh SMN can already have some pretty incredible MP gain, especially /rdm or even /sch, but /sch isn't really impressive.

I do greatly like the idea of giving more ways to heal avatars. I've often wished that you could at least cast Cure spells on them and I don't understand why you can't. After all, the hate gained by curing them would offset the increased durability it gives them, making them a viable solo tank for the SMN without having to run a hundred miles away to re-summon when they die. A boost to the curative power of the existing BPs would be nice too given the craptastic delay between them.

The recast time is a bit more difficult to weigh in on. 3 mins may be too often, breaking the balance of an already powerful solo job, but 5 mins would be almost useless solo and certainly useless in party/alliance situations.

[Strife]

Well while looking at pup job abilities I figured why not something on the lines of tatical switch for smn but instead of just exange tp it gives smn mp based on avatar tp and summoning magic skill

SMN already has Elemental Siphon for this, sure the more MP returning abilities the better if your a SMN but we already get quite a lot of MP conserving traits/ abilities/ gear as it is.

Also SE just gave SMN an ability that does the opposite i.e. Mana Cede so I think they're looking to take smn another way considering a lot of the new pacts they're bringing out are effected by avatar TP.

I'd love a way to cure avatars especially because of how important avatar TP is becoming, at the moment without Mana Cede your pet just builds TP & it's killed >< However because SMN can re-summon pets with no restriction -save for that of the SMN MP- unlike other jobs such as BST, DRG & PUP which are on a timer -& so need their pets to last until their timer runs down- I doubt SE will do this. Would be good if avatars AoEs could heal other avatars though & I agree with Glitch avatars healing BP are gimp at the moment a boost would be great.

[Kaych]

What I would like to have is a Ability similar to the Black Mages's "Mana Wall". I can actually mele with my Black Mage now without worrying about getting killed from too much hate or from AoE. Sure we have Stoneskin, but that dosent come close to how good Mana Wall is.

So I was thinking that instead of Mana Wall we could have a Abillity that makes our pet take dammage instead of us. Sort of double dammage to our pet, while us Summoners take no dammage. I dunno, lets call it "Shield Pact". When I think about this Ability, then your suggestion to healing Avatars sounds so good:) Maybe we could get a Weaponskill that heals both the Summoner and the Avatar. Sure these Abilitys arent suited for every situations, but I would love to have the option to mele more effectivly.

I always like the idea that mages can mele and I love how SE made White Mages a "mele-mage" by giving them Cura, Esuna, Afflatuse Misery, Auspice etc. With the suggestion I have above, then Summoners will not only be able to mele more easily, but also heal their Avatars :)

I beleve SE made us mages have WSes for a reason, so lets start using them ^_-

[Aerius]

Alright, I guess there goes that theory, I missed what Strife quoted below, I guess the whole Caller's Attire set is going to be needed after all.

Too bad, 50% off the perp cost before the other stuff would have been more useful.

[Strife]

This is what it says on the wiki about Caller's Bracers +1 :(


Avatar Perpetuation Cost -50%

* Unlike the hidden effect of Carbuncle Mitts, this is applied after 'Reduces avatar perpetuation cost' gear instead of before; eg: With -11 in other -perpetuation gear, the remaining 3/tic perpetuation for a celestial avatar will be halved then rounded down for a result of 1/tic perpetuation.

While these are still good unfortunately if wiki is correct they're not as godly as they look at first glace :(

[Smokenttp]

MP is a bit of a challenge outside of Abyssea, but only if you are a primary or greatly used support healer in addition to using your BPs. I know, I know, what SMN isn't expected to be a significant support healer? I'm not completely sold on the idea that SMN needs more MP replenishment though. By utilizing Avatar perp. cost - gear and stacking autorefresh SMN can already have some pretty incredible MP gain, especially /rdm or even /sch, but /sch isn't really impressive.


actually yeah my ideia was to give those abilities at a low level to power up a bit smn in specially in party situations, it would make able to use avatar favor effectvily while still retaining the ability to support your party, while i know that smn actually have lots of ways to lower the perp cost nowadays it take a while to be alble to use that kind of gear, and also while abyssea allows to fast level ups, it might still be usefull on some situations outside party.The recast yeah its a big issue, too low would be too overpowered while to long makes the ability pretty useless.

As for the shield pact ideia i found it kinda interresting but might be alot overpowered, the problem about smn melee tough would be acess to high dmg staffs and melee gear to use (i know theres a little out there but its kinda not worth a while for me cause of the amount of time i have to play).

thanks for the replies i really apreciate it and wouldnt tought the healing idea would get that much attention (more than the mp oneXD)

[Karbuncle]

The good thing is, as a SMN, Outside of Abyssea its still possible to maintain free Avatars, Which wasn't possible without buffs at 75.
...On the subject of Job abilities for SMN, I currently like what we have, we have Elemental Siphon for MP, Avatar's Favor for a slight "buff", and Mana Cede to improve that which is our most holy abilities... 75BP's. I Can't really think of anything else a SMN needs in turn of Job Abilities.

I mean, A way to cure Any Avatar (Not just ones who have Healing BP's) would be nice. But as someone pointed out, Avatars can be resummoned relatively quickly, So that is very unlikely to be added.

though, Maybe an Ability that's a Reverse of Avatar's Favor? Instead of Drawing energy from your avatar, They draw more from you. Think of it as an Stronger Summon. There would be two types perhaps, 1 minute cool-down. It would be something like.

note im not suggesting exactly this, Its just the idea

"Enhanced Summoning: Strength"
Level: 90
Recast: 5 minutes
Duration: Till pet dies/Desummons.
Pet: Haste+15%
Attack+15%
Double Attack+10%

Effect on you: Lowers attack 15%, Slow+15%, Avatar Perpetuation Cost+5.

"Enhances Summoning: Defense"
Level: 90
Recast: 5 Minutes
Duration: Until Avatar is Desummoned/Defeated.
Increases Healing Bloodpact potency 25%
Increases Bloodpact: Ward Duration 25%
Grants avatar a Regen Effect (+10hp/tic)

Effect on you: Avatar Per.+5, Drains 10hp/tic. Upon Summon, Drains 1/4th of your Maximum HP.

Please note, I'm not suggestion the Exact Above solution, I'm only using them as Examples of what I mean when i say "Opposite of Avatar's Favor" effect. Drain power from the Summoner to Enhance the Avatar. Something akin to that. An ability that, again, Drains more energy from the Summoner to Enhance the Avatar.

But Eh, Impractical Ideas, Only spit-balling. Not realistically expecting something like this to be added.

[Odintius]

Always like to be able to have a elemental spirit out at same time as a Avatar. Have light spirit out and carbuncle out would boost healing effect reduce bp timer etc. Though there be it + and - your spirit would be in a consent /cover mode and doesn't cast spell like it normally would. But having it out doesn't cost you mp only Avatar cost you a few ticks more perhaps. Pretty open to a balance way though :P

[Cabalabob]

my idea for smn job ability is grand summon, 30min recast lvl 90 JA tht makes ur next summoned avatar have no recast (or half recast if no recast is too much) on blood pact timers but makes avatar unaffected by -perpetuation gear or refresh effects, ability wears off when avatar is summoned but remains in effect until the avatar is released killed or you run out of mp.

thought it would be a nice idea as i've been reading through other threads about how people think the blood pact timer is getting in the way of smns DD potential, would be a nice way to make smn more powerful not only through giving them faster blood pacts but seeing as perpetuation won't work under the JA's effect it would give smns a reason to get some "pet:" gear where there -perp gear used to be to make the avatar even stronger

[Sonshou]

Have anyone thought about a "Combined Summon"?

When two summoners have their avatar out, e.g. Ramuh and Garuda,

the two avatars are fused together into a more powerful avatar consist of two elements: Lightning and Wind, or say the element of "Fragmentation".

I would think this should cost both involved summoners a higher perpetuation cost in maintaining the avater.

Instead of doing another ridiculus quest for a new avatar that only summonable via Astral Flow, I think this would be more fun.

[Angelsasuke]

I would like an ability to summon multi elementals without eating all my mp instantly. Every SMN npc does it. Or at least by time lvl 99 is release the ability to command elementals to use ability instead of hoping they use what you want. And yea i agree with sonshou on the fact im really disappointed that can only use odin or alex during 2hr and only once on top of it. Have them normal avys woulda be alot better being that you have to go through far more to get them. Obviously the moves they use upon being cast would end up as thier astral flow moves. Only reason i can see that they arent is odin with make the third dark elemental avatar, and if no odin couldnt do alex.

[SandriaBahamut]

I'd honestly like to see a job ability that basically combines the summoner with the avatar. The summoner assumes the shape, elemental affinity, spell groups, and "weapon skills" of the avatar. They can be buffed, their attack/defense/accuracy/magic accuracy/magic attack/magic defense are all base + influenced by the summoner's summoning magic. Call me a fool, but I loved the aeon system and would like to see something like that. The advantages would be...obviously the summoner can now cast spells that the avatar can (Enhancing/Enfeebling/Elemental) spells attune the elemental, can actually run up and hit things, and if accuracy and haste is around, even fire off a few blood pacts sooner (especially with the right atma). Downsides? Well you're much more squishy as you're actually on the front lines, so AoE stuff can still kinda wreck you, as well as your subjob choice...doesn't really matter. Maybe your buffs carry over, but once you're in the avatar form, you don't have access to all your subjob spells and such. To help balance it a bit more towards useful for higher end things, maybe give it a decent level of Occult Accumen so you can stay back and cast spells and when the time is right, float in and blood pact before retreating out. Is it perfect? no I don't think so. Super useful? Eh probably not. It's just something I always thought would be kinda cool to have and would be kinda fun. We go across vana'diel, to each protocrystal, best the avatars to gain their assistance...maybe we can go one step even beyond that and fuse with the avatar.

[Imakun]

I agree with the stances idea. Most of the other jobs are getting stances, so why not pet jobs too?
A stance to enhance Avatars' attacks and another one to enhance Avatars' defensive abilities would be great.

Also a 15/10 mins ability to summon an Avatar with 300% TP. Astral Seal, Grand Summon or something.

[Pebe]

When I envisioned Alexander as a 2hr, I always envisioned becoming alexander like *spoilers* how that certain npc went inside alexander etc. And we would be able to control alexander abilties completely for a full 3 mins. The rage and ward timers would be cut in half. I always thought that would be a strong, cool 2hr. Becoming the avatar was always an idea that interested me.

[Korpg]

"Enhanced Summoning: Strength"
Level: 90
Recast: 5 minutes
Duration: Till pet dies/Desummons.
Pet: Haste+15%
Attack+15%
Double Attack+10%

Effect on you: Lowers attack 15%, Slow+15%, Avatar Perpetuation Cost+5.

"Enhances Summoning: Defense"
Level: 90
Recast: 5 Minutes
Duration: Until Avatar is Desummoned/Defeated.
Increases Healing Bloodpact potency 25%
Increases Bloodpact: Ward Duration 25%
Grants avatar a Regen Effect (+10hp/tic)

Effect on you: Avatar Per.+5, Drains 10hp/tic. Upon Summon, Drains 1/4th of your Maximum HP.


The bolded part is the reason why most people wouldn't use these outside of Abyssea and/or refresh support.

Then again, most summoners don't have ok gear as is and can't keep their avatars out for more than 3 minutes outside of Abyssea anyway.

Inside Abyssea, without the great -11 or greater (in this case, lower) avatar perp gear, summoners couldn't use this ability and maintain their current damage.

But if they could, Predator Claws would outshine Heavenly Strike again, or at least be comparable in damage with the right atmas.

[Malamasala]

If I get to make up a dream ability, it would involve an avatar being summoned with its elemental spirit. The spirit would just circle around the avatar and either cast nukes to heal it, or cast nukes on the enemy. Basically a mini version of the V2 avatar fights.

Another one would be to fast in sequence summon all avatars and have them attack with their weakest BP:Rage. It would be fun watching them pop and depop and deliver a small punch to the enemy over and over. This would of course not work solo but would require you to not be hit while summoning over and over (though summoning time would be shorter to make it cooler)

[Karbuncle]

The bolded part is the reason why most people wouldn't use these outside of Abyssea and/or refresh support.

Then again, most summoners don't have ok gear as is and can't keep their avatars out for more than 3 minutes outside of Abyssea anyway.

Inside Abyssea, without the great -11 or greater (in this case, lower) avatar perp gear, summoners couldn't use this ability and maintain their current damage.

But if they could, Predator Claws would outshine Heavenly Strike again, or at least be comparable in damage with the right atmas.

I Did try to make it pretty clear that i wasn't meaning for the ideas Buffs/Debuffs to be literal. I was only elaborating on the general idea of my. . . Idea o.o;

That being, "Draws more power from Summoner to Boost Avatar", The opposite of Avatar's Favor. a Buff to Avatar gained from further strain on SMN. Wasn't exactly suggesting the above, Only a giving people an idea of what i meant.

[Korpg]

The bolded part is the reason why most people wouldn't use these outside of Abyssea and/or refresh support.

Then again, most summoners don't have ok gear as is and can't keep their avatars out for more than 3 minutes outside of Abyssea anyway.

Inside Abyssea, without the great -11 or greater (in this case, lower) avatar perp gear, summoners couldn't use this ability and maintain their current damage.

But if they could, Predator Claws would outshine Heavenly Strike again, or at least be comparable in damage with the right atmas.
I Did try to make it pretty clear that i wasn't meaning for the ideas Buffs/Debuffs to be literal. I was only elaborating on the general idea of my. . . Idea o.o;

That being, "Draws more power from Summoner to Boost Avatar", The opposite of Avatar's Favor. a Buff to Avatar gained from further strain on SMN. Wasn't exactly suggesting the above, Only a giving people an idea of what i meant.

I'm not saying your idea was bad. I'm just pointing out the real reason why people wouldn't use it.

I don't use Avatar's Favor at all, because not of the -2/-3 perp or the buffs it provides, but because it weakens my avatars too much to do what it is there to do, which is to deal hate-free damage without consequence but to laugh at the tank for not keeping hate until my avatar dies. Or if needed, to desummon and resummon to give more hate-free damage.

Only real time I ever used Avatar's Favor was to solo some NMs with the die/summon/die strategy, otherwise known as "Carby Kiting."

And hi Karbuncle. Nice to talk to you again.

[Syntex]

my idea for smn job ability is grand summon, 30min recast lvl 90 JA tht makes ur next summoned avatar have no recast (or half recast if no recast is too much) on blood pact timers but makes avatar unaffected by -perpetuation gear or refresh effects, ability wears off when avatar is summoned but remains in effect until the avatar is released killed or you run out of mp.

thought it would be a nice idea as i've been reading through other threads about how people think the blood pact timer is getting in the way of smns DD potential, would be a nice way to make smn more powerful not only through giving them faster blood pacts but seeing as perpetuation won't work under the JA's effect it would give smns a reason to get some "pet:" gear where there -perp gear used to be to make the avatar even stronger

8k Bloodpacts on a 31 second cooldown is hardly in the way, its more like 15-20 seconds by time the animation finishes with next to no hate(other then BP action) on the caster. Alternate it with a BP:Ward and you can spam it.

[Karbuncle]

I'm not saying your idea was bad. I'm just pointing out the real reason why people wouldn't use it.

I don't use Avatar's Favor at all, because not of the -2/-3 perp or the buffs it provides, but because it weakens my avatars too much to do what it is there to do, which is to deal hate-free damage without consequence but to laugh at the tank for not keeping hate until my avatar dies. Or if needed, to desummon and resummon to give more hate-free damage.

Only real time I ever used Avatar's Favor was to solo some NMs with the die/summon/die strategy, otherwise known as "Carby Kiting."

And hi Karbuncle. Nice to talk to you again.

I DUN WANNA D:

Anyway, Yah, I think i used Avatar's Favor a few times a while back. one to be a Diabolos Whore, and once when i was testing to see if Ifrit's Double Attack was granted, or an improvement (back when people were like "IT DUN WORK").

I'm sad to say I haven't had a good long time to level SMN lately :( But i still love the job... So when i think about SMN and Job Abilities i really do like the idea of Buffing an avatar rather than adding another "Support" Ability.

When i think back on it, I think my previous Ideas might be a good idea, Though... Instead of Perp+, I think adding a "Drain" effect would make more sense. Avatars already drain MP, an "enhanced" Summoning if you will, might take in-turn HP as well. So like... Instead of Increasing Perp Cost on the above, It could Drain HP at the same rate as MP. Nothing Regen II couldn't handle for the most part.

[Cabalabob]

8k Bloodpacts on a 31 second cooldown is hardly in the way, its more like 15-20 seconds by time the animation finishes with next to no hate(other then BP action) on the caster. Alternate it with a BP:Ward and you can spam it.

Im vry interested 2 see ur gear + atma combo 2 reach -29 BP delay and still do 8k dmg and even so other DDs can probably pop tht kind of dmg out in half the time. ive seen tachi: fudo's doin 5k dmg and being used pretty much back to back

[Karbuncle]

Im vry interested 2 see ur gear + atma combo 2 reach -29 BP delay and still do 8k dmg and even so other DDs can probably pop tht kind of dmg out in half the time. ive seen tachi: fudo's doin 5k dmg and being used pretty much back to back

Unless something changed, BP Reduction from gear is capped at -15 Isn't it? I could have sworn it was.

Anyway, theres an Atma with BP Delay -: Minor, that reduces BP Delay i think 10 seconds. Which i Think goes beyond the BP Cap for -25 seconds off. I dunno where -29 would be from ;x

[Malamasala]

Anyway, theres an Atma with BP Delay -: Minor, that reduces BP Delay i think 10 seconds.

So it is said, but nobody has ever confirmed it. Which makes me wonder if everyone has as bad luck with getting WotG done as me, or if I'm the only person who tries to make my Summoner as good as possible.

[Karbuncle]

So it is said, but nobody has ever confirmed it. Which makes me wonder if everyone has as bad luck with getting WotG done as me, or if I'm the only person who tries to make my Summoner as good as possible.

I stopped doing WoTG missions some time ago cause i didn't like doing my game in tiers. I plan on picking it back up now that its actually Complete.

[Daeka]

My idea... Or someone else's if they had it... >_>

Make the LV70 Physical Pact's have skillchain attributes please. I never understood why the developers decided to have the phys pacts have skillchain properties up to double slap and then just went 'meh' to the rest of them. Always baffled me.

[Smokenttp]

Bumping since devs seems to be reading stuff to grab opinions