best gear and atmas for ranger

[Rewdawg]

yes i just started to play ranger and was wondering what everyone thoughts were on the best gear for ranger and what are the best atmas as well

[Alkalinehoe]

Gandiva and I typically use RR/GH/Sea Daughter for atmas.

[xbobx]

I don't have the new ws so I use RR/GH and SA. May try sea Daughter but since my WS dmg sucks I rather boost up the regular shots.

[Hayward]

If you're willing to do so, try for Drifter from Khalamari. More RAcc/RAtk can't hurt.

As for gear, besides upgrading Sylvan gear to +1 or +2, you'll want to go for either the Sylvan Chlamys from Smok or the Libeccio Mantle from Brooder. If you don't have a Hope/Faith Torque, look out for the Sylvan Scarf from Minhocao. A couple of good earrings would include the Volley and Clearview Earrings (Clearview is dropped from Brulo, a not-very-easy Tier 3 VNM).

In terms of weapons, if you cannot get a Gandiva or Wildfire, you cannot go wrong in building a Fire Bateleur +2 and a Wind or Fire (depending on your preference) Mayhem +2.

[Lokithor]

I second (or is it third?) RR, GH and Sea Daughter. Don't bother with atma for ranged attack - go for the crit hits and pump up (dramatically) the damage of your normal ranged attacks.

[noodles355]

Sea Daughter, Smouldering Sky and Brother Wolf.

[Feliciaa]

Going to play devil's advocate with this one. :)
Relic gun or bow with sea daughter, VV and Stout Arm.

[Alkalinehoe]

If all you have access to is Slugwinder or Arching Arrow, then work on a Gandiva asap. In the meantime, I used VV/RR/Sea Daughter while using Slugwinder.

Edit: While Drifter seems like a nice choice, last time I checked it's rattk+30 and racc+30. VV has STR+50, so not only are you getting +50 on your WSs, you're getting +25rattk too. Racc shouldn't be an issue anyways.

[Ragni]

RR/VV/Stout Arm

I don't know why ppl are using Sea Daughter? Get better Store TP equip and make 4/5 hit builds ~~ And you can't use sea daughter outside abyssea...

[Alkalinehoe]

RR/VV/Stout Arm

I don't know why ppl are using Sea Daughter? Get better Store TP equip and make 4/5 hit builds ~~ And you can't use sea daughter outside abyssea...
I'd rather not feed the mob TP, plus when you cap hate every shot you take may get the mob running to you.

[noodles355]

Gaining TP during downtime between monsters.
Gaining TP whilst popping JAs.
Gaining TP whilst holding back to avoid death.

Pretty viable reasons.

Also ITT: You can only have one gearset for ranger. You can't have a separate TP set for inside and outside abyssea.

[Babekeke]

yes i just started to play ranger and was wondering what everyone thoughts were on the best gear for ranger and what are the best atmas as well

I knew this thread looked familiar lol


yes i am new to playing thief and i am wondering what i should use my merit points on . any suggestions?


yes was wondering what everyone thinks is the best gear setup for thief with af and what the best setup is for non af thief?


yes was wondering in everyone's opinion which atma would be best for thief?

That is all, sorry to interrupt your thread^^

[Feliciaa]

At least it gives us something to talk about. Rng thread is kind of dead. Lol.

Back on topic...
If you want high spike dmg emp bow is the best. However, it will lose to relic gun and bow in overall dmg on harder mobs because relics won't have to hold back like the emp rng would.

[Alkalinehoe]

At least it gives us something to talk about. Rng thread is kind of dead. Lol.

Back on topic...
If you want high spike dmg emp bow is the best. However, it will lose to relic gun and bow in overall dmg on harder mobs because relics won't have to hold back like the emp rng would.
Hopefully the new "TA" JA will help even this out.

[Catsby]

I like to build gear/atmas around what I'm doing. I was in a worm group yesterday and did /war with GH/RR/mounted champ. I was doing my own thing most of the time to get the most of my JA/WS. I stacked a ton of ranged attack and STR. Between JR, ranged attacks and all my JA I was able to kill a worm every 15-30 seconds and the regen atma put me back together if I happened to get stone IV'd.

When I'm fighting stuff that can move though I like to put something else in that 2nd and 3rd atma slot like sea daughter or whatever else people are suggesting. I also have a pretty bitchin' -enmity set that doesn't sacrifice ratk, stp or STR so I can still shoot.

[noodles355]

I also have a pretty bitchin' -enmity set that doesn't sacrifice ratk, stp or STR so I can still shoot.Please share.

[Catsby]

The -enmity pieces are;

neck: Sylvan
ear1: Sylvan
ear2: Novia
body: Sylvan +2
ring 1: Metanoia
back: Sylvan
belt: Buccaneer
feet: Sylvan +2

Together this is like -40 and I also have -5 from merits.

In the other slots you can plug in whatever piece you think works best for what you are doing. There are probably a few pieces out there that give you more -enmity for the slot but I was looking for gear that complimented RNG and not just straight up -enmity(rings and earrings are tough though).

[Myrrh]

For everyone saying "If you can't get a Gandiva get a stupid weapon instead". If a person can't get a Gandiva, they can get a Harrier. While it may not be as epic as a Gandiva. Having Jishnu's over not having is much better IMO.

[Mirabelle]

The hard part of Gandiva isn't the Aby stages. Its the VNM stages. Since you have to go RNG to them, you can't solo them and need help. At least the Aby or WoE stages, you can come as whatever job works. Finding people willing to wander around looking for VNM's just to help you out can be a challenge, even with a good LS group. So much easier to form a serviceable aby group where people can come on the best jobs to get the items done fast.
VNM's are the most annoying part.
Much easier just to get a Bataleur +2. Actually much easier to put RNG aside until after the aby fad finishes and bring it out when SE finally fixes it.

[xbobx]

how hard is Gandiva to get? I keep hearing nightmares about Fistule. I would like an emp weapon, i was going to do h2h but it seems a pain with Chloris.

[Catsby]

how hard is Gandiva to get? I keep hearing nightmares about Fistule. I would like an emp weapon, i was going to do h2h but it seems a pain with Chloris.

When I did it Fistule wasn't ever contested. I don't really see hand axe, club and bow being that popular so it might not be that hard for you. Also you can duo him pretty fast with a thf and whm.

[Catsby]

For everyone saying "If you can't get a Gandiva get a stupid weapon instead". If a person can't get a Gandiva, they can get a Harrier. While it may not be as epic as a Gandiva. Having Jishnu's over not having is much better IMO.

I haven't had a chance to use it much outside abyssea so I don't know how great it is to say sidewinder on the STR bow. I hear it's pretty sweet. The double damage/double shot Condors are nice too if you are fighting stuff that has you moving a lot.

[Myrrh]

Sidewinder misses what? 9 times out of 10?(Joking of course, but we all know it has awful Acc) Outside of Abyssea, I've full missed with Jishnus roughly 5 times and that's only on extremely high stuff. Even when Jishnu's Misses, it still hits. It's an amazing WS and a person shouldn't even think about Sidewinder again once they get it.

[Ezekieal]

For everyone saying "If you can't get a Gandiva get a stupid weapon instead". If a person can't get a Gandiva, they can get a Harrier. While it may not be as epic as a Gandiva. Having Jishnu's over not having is much better IMO.

^ This.

I started work on Gandiva/Harrier before the empy ws were released and when they were, went the Harrier route because tbh I didnt/dont have the people to help me with fistule/bukhis. (already had the vnm's done from when lots of people were spamming them.)

As a result I was one of the first people on my server to have Jishnu's Radiance, if not the first.

Harrier is way way better than bataleur, and the difference when using Jishnu's Radiance between Gandiva and Harrier isnt that big at all, the aftermath is the biggest difference maker in dps. (I've been in a pt with a gandiva rng before and made him look silly when it came to ws's)

So the rest of your gear plays a more important role in Jishnu's dmg than the actual bow itself.

[Mirabelle]

^ This.

I started work on Gandiva/Harrier before the empy ws were released and when they were, went the Harrier route because tbh I didnt/dont have the people to help me with fistule/bukhis. (already had the vnm's done from when lots of people were spamming them.)

As a result I was one of the first people on my server to have Jishnu's Radiance, if not the first.

Harrier is way way better than bataleur, and the difference when using Jishnu's Radiance between Gandiva and Harrier isnt that big at all, the aftermath is the biggest difference maker in dps. (I've been in a pt with a gandiva rng before and made him look silly when it came to ws's)

So the rest of your gear plays a more important role in Jishnu's dmg than the actual bow itself.

Wouldn't your atma's outweigh anything you can do on gear? In abyssea at least. If you "killed" a Gandiva RNG it was far more likely you were using better atma's for the task at hand rather than better gear. Loki's kaftan is great and all that but it pales compared to atma of Gnarled Horn.

[noodles355]

If you get your bow all the way past everything to the point where it's time to split between Empy/WoE paths, you've done a big chunk of it already. I'm doing gun currently. I'm 33/50 Carabosse gems, and 5/6 on Feureunke and need 6 Tammuz after it. To get to this point on the trial line has probably taken longer (including hours waiting between windows) that it has to farm the carabosse gems.

I would seriously concider getting to the stage where you have to decide between empyrean and WoW and then stop. Take some time to farm pustules. If you can get some friends to help you and it's going well, great! If it's not going so well, go farm some WoE coins and then compare the two. You might find farming pustules isn't terribly worse than farming WoE.

If you just make the WoE bow without even trying Fistule, you might later find that it might not have been as bad as you were expecting to farm pustules and may regret the decision (you'd have to do all of your NM and VNM trials all over again, and your harrier+2 would become useless soon afterwards).

And WoE bow will still take time to pass the innitial vnm/nm stages and farm the WoE mats, so in the meantime grab something like Vision Bow.

Any time upgrading something whilst you wait to finish Gandiva is time upgrading something that you could spend upgrading Gandiva. So I really think the best suggestion is NOT the WoE bow unless you've tried Fistule a good amount and decide it's really not plausible.

Buhkis isn't as big an issue. He drops 4 different +2 mats so it's not perticularly hard to get help for it.

Alternatively you could do Gun, because Carabosse and Cirein Croin are absolute jokes. I'm doing gun as I have Cor as well. Maybe I'll do Gandiva in the future afterwards, but even if I do I'll still have Armageddon for when Enmity is too much of an issue to spam Jishnu's Radience (Widfire has low hate).

[Ezekieal]

Wouldn't your atma's outweigh anything you can do on gear? In abyssea at least. If you "killed" a Gandiva RNG it was far more likely you were using better atma's for the task at hand rather than better gear. Loki's kaftan is great and all that but it pales compared to atma of Gnarled Horn.

yeah meant to sya gear and atma

[Vortex]

^ This.

I started work on Gandiva/Harrier before the empy ws were released and when they were, went the Harrier route because tbh I didnt/dont have the people to help me with fistule/bukhis. (already had the vnm's done from when lots of people were spamming them.)

As a result I was one of the first people on my server to have Jishnu's Radiance, if not the first.

Harrier is way way better than bataleur, and the difference when using Jishnu's Radiance between Gandiva and Harrier isnt that big at all, the aftermath is the biggest difference maker in dps. (I've been in a pt with a gandiva rng before and made him look silly when it came to ws's)

So the rest of your gear plays a more important role in Jishnu's dmg than the actual bow itself.

You definatly must have had a very terrible gandiva rng then, because i have pretty much outdamaged any other rng with gandiva, and i use Stout arm, SS and RR and i have not been dissapointed with the overall damage. WSs ranging anywhere between 4-8k mainly and normal hits anywhere between 6-900 1400+ with aftermath.

[noodles355]

Is SS better than GH for Gandiva?

[Alkalinehoe]

Honestly, if you're RNGing in Abyssea with Gandiva, Sea Daughter and RR is a must. It gives you higher weapon skill frequency vs using something like Stout Arm where you're only really getting rattk since there are no STR mods on Jishnu's. The 30% Crit Rate is great for ensuring that all hits crit and the AGI will help you with subtle blow so you're not feeding too much TP.

I'm not sure about SS but it's pretty useless if you aren't critting most of the hits anyways.

[noodles355]

You should be dDex capped with cruor buffs and RR. I believe for most melees RR/SS/Apoc beats RR/GH/Apoc now since they lifted the Crit dmg cap. SS/RR/Dead Aim should put you at 100% Crit Dmg on regular hits and 60% on Jishnus. It's slightly better for melee, I can't see a reason why it wouldn't hold true for Rng, RR/SS/SD or RR/GH/SD. Tbh both are probably pretty damn close, GH will also offer 25 Racc.

[Vortex]

You should be dDex capped with cruor buffs and RR. I believe for most melees RR/SS/Apoc beats RR/GH/Apoc now since they lifted the Crit dmg cap. SS/RR/Dead Aim should put you at 100% Crit Dmg on regular hits and 60% on Jishnus. It's slightly better for melee, I can't see a reason why it wouldn't hold true for Rng, RR/SS/SD or RR/GH/SD. Tbh both are probably pretty damn close, GH will also offer 25 Racc.

Apoc does absolutly nothing for rng as ranged attacked don't triple attack, so apoc is useless for everything except a free reraise, i have been sticking to RR/SS/Stout arm and never looked back, you also do not need the ranged accuracy at all. so that is a bit irrelavent, assuming you are good geared on rng anyway. I personaly don't see the use in GH on rng over any of those 3 other then if you really need more subtle blow (AGI), you have to also realize that things you fight in abyssea do not live long either.

[noodles355]

Apoc does absolutly nothing for rng as ranged attacked don't triple attack, so apoc is useless for everything except a free reraise, i have been sticking to RR/SS/Stout arm and never looked back, you also do not need the ranged accuracy at all. so that is a bit irrelavent, assuming you are good geared on rng anyway. I personaly don't see the use in GH on rng over any of those 3 other then if you really need more subtle blow (AGI), you have to also realize that things you fight in abyssea do not live long either.I'm unsure where I mentioned using Apoc on Rng. Perhaps you should read the post again. I said that after raising the Crit damage cap that for most melees RR/SS/Apoc pulled ahead of RR/GH/Apoc, and that for ranger it should be similar: RR/SS/SD should have pulled ahead of RR/GH/SD.
I know reading is tough, but please give it a shot, especially when we're actually agreeing on the same thing (That SS should be better than GH).

[Ezekieal]

You definatly must have had a very terrible gandiva rng then, because i have pretty much outdamaged any other rng with gandiva, and i use Stout arm, SS and RR and i have not been dissapointed with the overall damage. WSs ranging anywhere between 4-8k mainly and normal hits anywhere between 6-900 1400+ with aftermath.

Well yeah duh! It stands to reason if we were using identical gear and atma set ups he should of been doing slightly more powerful jishnu's with lvl 90 Gandiva sporting 3 dmg and 15 dex over the Harrier +2. (For the sake of arguement not talking about aftermath as thats the only real difference. And a big difference it is too.)

However it was not the the lvl 90 Gandiva it was the lvl 85 so he had 10 dex over me but i had 5 base dmg over him, if i remember rightly i was using RR/GH/VV didnt have sea daughter at the time and the 50% crit dmg cap was still up.

Just for the record i dont regret choosing Harrier over Gandiva, yeah its not as good but i was the only person on my server with Jishnu's Radiance for months. Was worth it. I bet future trials for Harrier are gonna be a walk in the park compared to Gandiva too, very happy about that.

Any who i wanted to say to the people who are trying to deside Gandiva or Harrier, go for Gandiva if you can obviously its better, maybe not so much with the ws but its all about the aftermath, having said that the 85-90 trial is a pain i hear and 90 - 95 and 95 - 99 will be also.

So will a lvl 85 Gandiva still be better than a lvl 99 Harrier? (in terms of Jishnu's dmg) I doubt it.

As for the atma arguement i would say RR/SS/SD is definately the way to go now.

God i miss playing rng, SE PLEASE MAKE SOME CONTENT WHERE WE ARE RELEVENT! KTHANKS!

[xbobx]

On some weapons, I wouldnt put it past the fact that the elemental line may end up better because it will be too hard to finish an emp weapon.

[Rewdawg]

i have started on the trial for gandiva currnetly on 3rd one but see everyone mention stout arm, ss and rr or gh . i know rr is razed ruins and gh is gnarled horn but what does ss stand for as there are several atmas with ss for endings. also i currently use nin and dnc for my sub should i be using something else as a sub? and thanks for all the replys they have been very helpful. thank you everyone.;)

[Ezekieal]

i have started on the trial for gandiva currnetly on 3rd one but see everyone mention stout arm, ss and rr or gh . i know rr is razed ruins and gh is gnarled horn but what does ss stand for as there are several atmas with ss for endings. also i currently use nin and dnc for my sub should i be using something else as a sub? and thanks for all the replys they have been very helpful. thank you everyone.;)

Sanguine Scythe

[Feliciaa]

i have started on the trial for gandiva currnetly on 3rd one but see everyone mention stout arm, ss and rr or gh . i know rr is razed ruins and gh is gnarled horn but what does ss stand for as there are several atmas with ss for endings. also i currently use nin and dnc for my sub should i be using something else as a sub? and thanks for all the replys they have been very helpful. thank you everyone.;)
/nin or /sam are the best SJs for rng. Both have their ups and downs. It really depends on what you are doing and what other jobs your teamed up with.

[Ezekieal]

/war has its uses too ^^

[Feliciaa]

With the way /Sam works now I'm not confident that berserk could beat everything /Sam brings to the table anymore. However, I do agree that /war brings a lot of firepower to a zerg fight. I just don't think it brings enough vs. The ws frequency of /sam.

[Vortex]

/nin or /sam are the best SJs for rng. Both have their ups and downs. It really depends on what you are doing and what other jobs your teamed up with.

/nin is worthless to rng, for any reason other then survival and even then unless your Ni timer is up, all you do is waste time trying to recast shadows instead of doing damage, /nin is comeplte garbage.

/war while it is ok for damage /sam still triumps it, the benefits of /sam like store tp sekkanoki and mediate cannot be beaten by /war in any way, shape or form. and the only useful aspect about war (berserk) only gets you killed faster when you grab hate as you have no way of stoping a mob from hitting you.

/sam wins hands down. and unlike war it actually has defensive abilites like seigan and third eye assuiming you are using a vulcan's staff, not that any other weapon is better.

[Mirabelle]

/nin is worthless to rng, for any reason other then survival and even then unless your Ni timer is up, all you do is waste time trying to recast shadows instead of doing damage, /nin is comeplte garbage.

/war while it is ok for damage /sam still triumps it, the benefits of /sam like store tp sekkanoki and mediate cannot be beaten by /war in any way, shape or form. and the only useful aspect about war (berserk) only gets you killed faster when you grab hate as you have no way of stoping a mob from hitting you.

/sam wins hands down. and unlike war it actually has defensive abilites like seigan and third eye assuiming you are using a vulcan's staff, not that any other weapon is better.

Disagree with worthlessness of /NIN. Yes you can't do damage casting Ni. You also can't do damage dead and very poor damage weakened.
If you are at all in a fight where the risk of death from going all out is so high that you have to hold back, you've lost the very advantage you had in coming /WAR or /SAM.

/NIN is the defacto best sub for RNG if you are at all uncertain about the capabilities of your surrounding party members. If they can't keep anywhere close to your damage, then you will be dead pretty quick. Even if I have to spend 30 sec tanking a mob with Ni and Ichi, I'm better off than trying to stay alive tanking a mob with Berserk up.

Admittedly if you are partying with a group of competent DD and healers, you should never need /NIN. But sometimes you just get in a pickup group full of Level 80 Perle Polearm skilling SAM's and you know you are going to be pulling hate all night.

So $hit is situational.

[Vortex]

Disagree with worthlessness of /NIN. Yes you can't do damage casting Ni. You also can't do damage dead and very poor damage weakened.
If you are at all in a fight where the risk of death from going all out is so high that you have to hold back, you've lost the very advantage you had in coming /WAR or /SAM.

Damage isn't a problem nin as you will lose alot of damage potential nin anyway, so in short you won't have worry about dying since you will be the lowest form of damage with other rngs there /sam. the reason /nin is worthless is because if by some miricale you do grab hate, you will die, after your 3 shadows are down, you will not get ichi back up if a mob is beating on you, you have terrible evasion. and while you are sitting there despratly trying to get ichi up, you are dying, losing damage, while a /sam will continue firing because he can just activate third eye. A good rng will never sub nin.


/NIN is the defacto best sub for RNG if you are at all uncertain about the capabilities of your surrounding party members. If they can't keep anywhere close to your damage, then you will be dead pretty quick. Even if I have to spend 30 sec tanking a mob with Ni and Ichi, I'm better off than trying to stay alive tanking a mob with Berserk up.

/nin is the worst possible sub period. have you actually fought anything hard as rng? /war is not the best choice either. yes a /war will die quikcker then a /nin but that is why i said /sam is the best sub of the two.

i have never been in any situiation where i said " i sure wish i was /nin. if you want to just stay alive, then you /nin you won't be doing much damage over /sams if you want big spike damage but die quickly you /war it's usualy for a "zerg" type fight anyway.


Admittedly if you are partying with a group of competent DD and healers, you should never need /NIN. But sometimes you just get in a pickup group full of Level 80 Perle Polearm skilling SAM's and you know you are going to be pulling hate all night.

i pull hate regardless of my sub, but that is because i have gandiva and i would be incredibly retarded to even think of subbing nin with a gandiva, but even before i did have it i still stuck to sam because it was better in every situation, but in cases like that it is called holding back i don't know what you are doing in a pick up group as rng anyway.


So $hit is situational.

Ineeded it is, but in this case, /nin is worse in every situation, as RNG you are there for damage, not back up tanking.

[Alkalinehoe]

I just really really really love going /WAR for some reason. I'll go /SAM if I need to play defensively, /NIN if I absolutely must, but I'd rather just come another job tbh if they wanted me to go RNG/NIN.

[noodles355]

I think I misread your first post as somewhat hostile, going over it again it's anything but, so there was no need for that, my bad.

But in the end we're both arguing the same thing: That SS should be better than GH.

Sea Daughter vs Stout Arm vs Gnarled Horn for the 3rd atma is another matter. For meriting and other general asshattery I would bet on Sea Daughter as there can be decent downtime between monsters. For tough NM fights, I'm fairly certain GH should beat out Stout Arm. If I was working on Gandiva instead of Armageddon right now (Maybe I'll do it in the future) it's definitely what I would use.

[Vortex]

The trend gets defensive and starts arguing or throwing hostile remarks. So dfid you, so yes I compared you to the general trend of people on the internet.

I'm not sure where I ever said I was a saint either. I also follow the trend of getting defensive and or responding with condesending or insulting remarks.. Yes, my first response was condesending. My second was a direct commentary on that quoted post and had nothing to do with your earlier ones. I think I misread your first post as somewhat hostile, going over it again it's anything but, so there was no need for that.

But in the end we're both arguing the same thing: That SS should be better than GH.

Sea Daughter vs Stout Arm vs Gnarled Horn for the 3rd atma is another matter.

I am unsure on sea daughter, while it is good for feeding less TP i don't know if i'd replace a dd atma for it, part of the big damage that comes from ranger is the normal hits.

[noodles355]

Yeah, I edited my post to expand. Essentially for exp fodder and stuff where people are pulling or you ar roaming it should be strong. But for NMs and stuff, I thinkI'd go with GH. RR/SS/GH should be really strong.

[Vortex]

Do you have cor as well? i highly recommend getting Gandiva instead of gun if it's only for rng, now while gun is still a strong weapon and certainly not a bad choice gandiva will beat it. as even outside abyssea i can still pull off 3-5k (5k mainly with a brd) but with gun the numbers are very dissapointing, that i have to go back to slugshot (not that i use gun over bow on rng anyway)

[noodles355]

Yes I have Cor as well. My choice for Armageddon was based on a few factors: It's usable by two of my jobs. It's awesome for bewing important stuff I'm still missing or will need in the future (such as certain NM 85>90 mats, and Rani) but mainly because it's something I can do by myself without relying on others for help (although I have recently joined a lowman (5~ ppl) empy shell) as my main ls is in a timezone 11hrs away and no longer does abyssea anyway.

[Feliciaa]

The gun has a almost hate free ws even if it is magic based so there is a high chance it would actually do more dmg then gandiva. on important things such as void stuff.

[Vortex]

The gun has a almost hate free ws even if it is magic based so there is a high chance it would actually do more dmg then gandiva. on important things such as void stuff.

i think you have it confused with relic gun, i'm talking about armagaddon, the empy one. and even still, no other weapon will out damage gandiva. unless of course it has a huge physcial resistence or immunity entierly, but i carry both in case that happens anyway.

actually it did say enimity generation varies with tp, but outside wildefire is pretty bad.

[Mirabelle]

the reason /nin is worthless is because if by some miricale you do grab hate, you will die, after your 3 shadows are down, you will not get ichi back up if a mob is beating on you, you have terrible evasion. and while you are sitting there despratly trying to get ichi up, you are dying, losing damage, while a /sam will continue firing because he can just activate third eye. A good rng will never sub nin.

Learn to tank. I can count shadows and get Ichi up before Ni falls.

Again if you dont party with competent DD's and mages, /NIN will keep you upright longer than /war and even /Sam. If the rest of you party is competent, then a stronger DD sub is great. If you've never been with poor Dd and mages, then bully for you. The world is your oyster.
For those of us that still slum it on occasion, going /war is a recipe for constant dirt naps.

[Vortex]

Learn to tank. I can count shadows and get Ichi up before Ni falls.

Again if you dont party with competent DD's and mages, /NIN will keep you upright longer than /war and even /Sam. If the rest of you party is competent, then a stronger DD sub is great. If you've never been with poor Dd and mages, then bully for you. The world is your oyster.
For those of us that still slum it on occasion, going /war is a recipe for constant dirt naps.

Learn2rng


I can count shadows and get Ichi up before Ni falls.

And while you are "counting shadows" you are losing damage potentional
while as /sam you chunk up segian/third eye and keep shooting, and of course if you get hit, no shadows, let me guess, you try to cast it again? so you sit there for 10 seconds wasting time with shadows while a mob is beating you in the head. yes, very effective.


Nin is worthless, period, all the time, everytime. most stuff i fight is usually dead before it has a chance to do damage. /sam has kept me alive in almost every situation the same as you are claiming nin does. except with /nin my overall damage is LESS giving the mob more chances to kill me. it's trash, period. nor do i /war, that is just suicide and still less damage then sam, stop defending /nin when it has already been proven to be the worst sub for rng by good rngs. learn to play rng better and you will say it. again /nin sucks in every situation, unless you're a full Pink rng that already didn't know any better. End of story. if you want to sub nin, great. but gimping your damage for shadows you don't need is very ineffective. it's not debeatable.


I know RNG is extreamly hard for you to play, i understand, in the end people can sub whatever they want. but things like that crap is what separates the good rngs from ones that just no clue how to be effeicient. even Rng/drg is a better option to shed hate if the fight is a hate cautious and proves better then /nin..
End.

[noodles355]

i think you have it confused with relic gun, i'm talking about armagaddon, the empy one. and even still, no other weapon will out damage gandiva. unless of course it has a huge physcial resistence or immunity entierly, but i carry both in case that happens anyway.I believe the theory was being able to spam wildfire with very little hate repeatedly causing you to do more damage over the course of the fight than using Jishnu's Radience and having to hold back or stop damage because you're gaining too much hate.

As I said though, my choice in doing Armageddon first was based 80% on it's stupid easy to get and 10% being able to WF brew things and 10% being usable by 2 of my jobs.

[Mirabelle]

And while you are "counting shadows" you are losing damage potentional

So is the /WAR and /SAM holding back while they wait for the mob to quit pounding on them. Or even better running around thinking that will get the mob off them.


while as /sam you chunk up segian/third eye and keep shootin
Yes increasing your enmity as the mob is focused on you will definitely improve the situation. Your WHM's must really love you.

Again, stuff is situational. You are clearly a man of extremes that can't see the middle ground. There are times where /NIN serves the RNG better and times that /SAM and /WAR serve the RNG better. If you've never seen it then, as i said before, bully for you. But I've seen many a case where the RNG/WAR spends the whole fight dead while the RNG/NIN keeps plugging along. I've seen JP players boot the RNG/WAR for sucking too much MP and slowing down the party. You look at the party, you look at the task and you look at what your best sub would be to accomplish that task. Usually its RNG/SAM in my experience, but not always.

[xbobx]

In many ways it doesn't matter what you are subbing, because you are restricted on how much dmg you do. Sub sam will give you more dmg but you have to hold back anyways. Nin will give you less dmg but you don't have to hold back as much so it all evens out in the end.

Now after patch hopefully that will change with decoy shot, then we can have a bit more fun. But it is my belief that enmity on ranged attacks has been bugged for a very long time. I can see a sam do a 2k ws nother other melee dmg, I do a 1.5k ws no other damage with -20 or so enmity and I will pull hate everytime.

[noodles355]

When hate was an issue (Like Odin, or T4 VNM, or Ixion) you didn't sub /sam or /nin. You subbed /Drg for High Jump. 25% Enmity reduction on a 3minute timer, nothing spectacular, but worthwhile. Every option resulted in you gimping your dmage, but this way the mob was less likely to move.

[Feliciaa]

Just cheat like I did and build a yoichinoyumi. Lol >.>

[noodles355]

With the Relic WSDmg boosts, does Namas Arrow put up damage comparable to Sidewinder now?

[Vortex]

So is the /WAR and /SAM holding back while they wait for the mob to quit pounding on them. Or even better running around thinking that will get the mob off them.

I never once said /war was a good idea, war is good for straight damage, with no defense. it's not at all viable for either offense nor defense. your goal is to kill the mob, not let it live as long as possible.



Yes increasing your enmity as the mob is focused on you will definitely improve the situation. Your WHM's must really love you.

Yes they do, because the mob is usually dead or about to die. due to the damage output as RNG/SAM if it is a dangerous mob you would be holding back anyway untill a time needed to unleash and as /sam i can dish out 3 wss including one that can self light while you have to struggle just to get 100 tp without barrage as /nin, again, rng is not a tank. sometimes you have to accept deaths in order to get the job done, and if you are afraid of dying (which is clear since you are so dependant on shadows) then you are on the wrong job.


Again, stuff is situational. You are clearly a man of extremes that can't see the middle ground. There are times where /NIN serves the RNG better and times that /SAM and /WAR serve the RNG better. If you've never seen it then, as i said before, bully for you. But I've seen many a case where the RNG/WAR spends the whole fight dead while the RNG/NIN keeps plugging along. I've seen JP players boot the RNG/WAR for sucking too much MP and slowing down the party. You look at the party, you look at the task and you look at what your best sub would be to accomplish that task. Usually its RNG/SAM in my experience, but not always.

No i am somone who actually understands RNGs power as well as it's limits /war is not recommended either,

Shadows do not stop multiple hit tp moves / siegan +third eye does, if something does a five fold attack on you, you will not only lose those 3 shadows but take damage anyway and if you just casted ni you are pretty much screwed for the duration of your timer. third eye will not only absorb that five fold attack but stay up for any further attack done on you after words. and it's on a constant 30 second timer when paired with segian. so there is already your flaw in your only reason for subbing nin, it will overall be better for suvivablity. as to even get decent timers on shadows you would have to carry a full haste set on rng just for an inferior sub, and carrying a haste set outside meeling on rng is already dumb.

Weither you accept it or not, /sam will always be superior to /nin and /war for pretty much every situation.

you are free to sub it if you wish, but it will serve you nothing more then a "crutch" that has that years old sticker people have had a problem with "i cannot function without shadows"

summery

/war is for all out damage with no defense,

/nin is for only defense with limited offense, your damage will suffer and the mobs will live longer because you are gimping your self.

/sam is for better damage output better defense overall. because while third eye is random is more reliable then shadows when you do grab hate it takes one second to put up 3rd eye.

It also has the added benefit of sekkanoki ( self explaitory 2 WS for 100 tp)
medidate gradual TP

Store TP increased TP gain, meaning youw ill get 100 tp faster then with the other 2 subs.

now i can't sit here and tell you what to sub. it's clear you don't know anything other then /nin but if you actually want to bring out the full potentional of RNG /nin is certainly not anywhere near what you need. if you need shadows that badly change to nin or thf/nin. rng is not where you do it.




I believe the theory was being able to spam wildfire with very little hate repeatedly causing you to do more damage over the course of the fight than using Jishnu's Radience and having to hold back or stop damage because you're gaining too much hate.

As I said though, my choice in doing Armageddon first was based 80% on it's stupid easy to get and 10% being able to WF brew things and 10% being usable by 2 of my jobs.

Actually, that is a nice reminder, i will keep that in mind for future fights. i had made a build for wildfire on rng in case i ever needed to use it, i comeplty overlooked the reduced enimity the WS gives. my orginal reason for getting gun WAS for RNG strangly enough, i just loved it on COR more for obvious reasons, but after i got gandiva it took a back seat.

[Feliciaa]

The Relic bow/gun WS is just about the same damage as sidewinder once you get the 90 version. That's why, it won't put up the crazy numbers Jishnu does but it will easily beat it on anything Jishnu can't 1 shot.
With Stout Arm, VV, Sea Doughter and /sam the amount of TP gained and normal shot damage is very good.
But that's just IMO and I still find Gandiva to be a crazy good weapon for anyone who can't spend the time/gil on relic bow/gun since the quest for them sucks vs. Gandiva's quest path.

[Vortex]

It's just about the same damage as sidewinder once you get the 90 version. That's why, it won't put up the crazy numbers Jishnu does but it will easily beat it on anything Jishnu can't 1 shot.
With Stout Arm, VV, Sea Doughter and /sam the amount of TP gained and normal shot damage is very good.
But that's just IMO and I still find Gandiva to be a crazy good weapon for anyone who can't spend the time/gil on relic bow/gun since the quest for them sucks vs. Gandiva's quest path.

Bhukis is a mood killer for bow, is a horrible trial NM and the only reason i put off getting the bow long ago, while fistule was a joke, since his wings actually gave you the WS, i dreaded it, but thanks to my shell they helped me with over half of the wings and i got it done, namas arrow is great for hate free damage but sadly i do not have the paitence to bother with it, especialy with having gandiva. but i do love gandiva because things die very quickly with jishnu's and i love it.

[Catsby]

Bhukis is a mood killer for bow, is a horrible trial NM and the only reason i put off getting the bow long ago...

I burnt out finishing bow and stopped playing for like 2 months. I'm not sure how I'm going to get those 75 fangs...

[Alkalinehoe]

Alfard isn't very hard at all. Shouldn't have any issues with a NIN + WHM at the bare minimum. My shell merced quite a bit of widowmakers so I ended up getting most of the ones from them. I'm currently sitting at around 50/75 and I plan to build up some crour and openly ask people to bring pop sets to brew them, just for the sake of getting it done.

[Myrrh]

What's everyones opinion on Griffon Claw? I've been curious about using that Atma with a Mekki Shakki.

[noodles355]

Good question. It would provid a good chunk of damage to your WS, but offer nothing to TP. Maybe with Stout Arm and Sea Daughter it would be good if you got a solid 4 hit build going. It wont beat out RR/SS/GH for Jishnu's, but could be worthwhile for gun.

Although, concidering the huge boost that dead aim gives, it could be worth trying to boost your normal per hit damage with crit based atmas like RR and SS and/or GH and just accepting that most of your damage will come from the TP phase and you will have mediocre WSs.

[Shiyo]

/nin or /sam are the best SJs for rng. Both have their ups and downs. It really depends on what you are doing and what other jobs your teamed up with.

What reason should you ever sub NIN besides skilling up axe? /nin serves no point.

[Feliciaa]

It really depends on the skill level of the other players. Ie. If your pulling hate just from a single double shot every pull and you are low on healing/support the shadows are nice. It's also a great sub if you are in a zone with lots if sneak + invisible mobs and you just want to be lazy.

[noodles355]

Translation: Good if I'm being gimp or if the other party members are being gimp?

[Feliciaa]

That depends on how good the RNG is with shadows. With shadows you can often tank long enough to not die after pulling hate. But with /Sam you are relying on third eye to last long enough and you also lose the ability to take any single Target magic spells.
At that point /nin will win since the /Sam is dead. However, overall yes. /Sam is much better then anything else RNG can sub but I would not call /nin useless.

[noodles355]

If your pulling hate just from a single double shot every pullThey're gimp

It's also a great sub if you are in a zone with lots if sneak + invisible mobs and you just want to be lazy.You're being gimp!

Trolling aside. People need to stop neglecting /Drg as a sub.

[Mirabelle]

Translation: Good if I'm being gimp or if the other party members are being gimp?

Exactly. Sometimes other party members are not that great and it becomes a detriment to be so outdamaging that you are constantly pulling hate. If you are constantly holding back /SAM, you've lost every bit of the advantage it gives you.

And sometimes it is OK to be lazy. If what you are doing isn't terribly difficult and biggest challenge is getting around sight and sound aggro, then utsusemi, tonko and monomi are perfectly good reasons to go around /NIN.

Do a Sea all RNG sometime. It might surprise you. (i.e. on Odin the most common sub is neither NIN, SAM or WAR). Everything has its uses and I don't think there is any argument that for damage /WAR, /SAM are king. But that doesn't make all subs useless given every activity in this game is no longer a zerg.

[Feliciaa]

They're gimp
You're being gimp!

Trolling aside. People need to stop neglecting /Drg as a sub.

With things shifting from abyssea to much harder content like void I can see /DRG being the best sj. Especially when you combine it with decoy shot.

[Mirabelle]

With things shifting from abyssea to much harder content like void I can see /DRG being the best sj. Especially when you combine it with decoy shot.

Well if they moved Super Jump to level 49 from 50, I could see that. As it is Attack Bonus I and High Jump (which has a range restriction of 10' and only sheds 30% enmity as a subjob) isn't enough yet to make me jump on the /DRG bandwagon yet (pardon the pun).
But its a viable subjob if all you are concerned about is enmity shedding. Admittedly its a bit like /NIN in that it offers minimal offensive advantages making it less likely you'll take hate meaning its less likely you'll need the High Jump effect.

[noodles355]

Admittedly its a bit like /NIN in that it offers minimal offensive advantages making it less likely you'll take hate meaning its less likely you'll need the High Jump effect.You should still eventually be coming close to CE cap on tough fights.

[Nynja]

However, it will lose to relic gun and bow in overall dmg on harder mobs because relics won't have to hold back like the emp rng would.

Real rangers get a Yoich and Gandiva

[Vortex]

Real rangers get a Yoich and Gandiva

Man if you could fund me a yoich i would get it just for the very few fights i would have to hate control, but i actually do think wildfire took its place for the time being, as i would use empy gun instead if hate is an issue, because it is almost impossible not to grab hate after a jishnu's on...anything. unless it's a war tank, then i would need 2-3 more.

[Nynja]

Is Wildfire even that good outside of abyssea on rng?

[esoR]

should be better than slugshot.

[Shiyo]

Slugshot is crap ._.

[noodles355]

Wildfire shouldn't beat Slug Shot outside of abyssea unless you're fighting a pipercing/physical resistant mob or a mob that takes super damage from magic. Slug Shot is still the strongest markmanship WS out of abyssea. Not to say it's the best or most useful, but it is still the strongest.

[esoR]

we need a replacement for slugwinder :/ refulgent works kinda.. for archery.. but there's nothing for marks... though archery is fine w/ jishnu, it feels like w/o emp/relic, you'd get left in the dust. (all this for outside)

rng have F***ing dark adaman bullets.. 105 base dmg. and the best ws to use it is lvl 55? that needs to change. /rant off

[Laitha]

Wildfire shouldn't beat Slug Shot outside of abyssea unless you're fighting a pipercing/physical resistant mob or a mob that takes super damage from magic. Slug Shot is still the strongest markmanship WS out of abyssea. Not to say it's the best or most useful, but it is still the strongest.

Technically LV 90 Annihilator and the higher modifiers on Coronach makes that the best Marksmanship WS outside of abyssea. Slugshot beats out lvl 85 Coronach.

[noodles355]

Technically LV 90 Annihilator and the higher modifiers on Coronach makes that the best Marksmanship WS outside of abyssea. Slugshot beats out lvl 85 Coronach.I did mean to post asking if the WS dmg boost made Lv90 Coronach beat Slug, I thought I did but I obviously rushed and forgot >.>

[Vortex]

Wildfire shouldn't beat Slug Shot outside of abyssea unless you're fighting a pipercing/physical resistant mob or a mob that takes super damage from magic. Slug Shot is still the strongest markmanship WS out of abyssea. Not to say it's the best or most useful, but it is still the strongest.

Wildfire CANNOT miss, because it is an elemental WS, yes it can be resisted of course, but the entire point of wildfire is the select enimity it gives, was not worried about damage, because in my case if i need damage i can...just use gandiva.. wildefire would be for steady minimum hate damage, which is the entire reason for it outside. and for an elemental WS it does great damage. just not uber awsome mega damage.

Coronach is a great hate control WS as well, because no matter how much damage you do, the enimity is a lock on set, and is pretty low i think.

[noodles355]

Wildfire CANNOT miss, because it is an elemental WS, yes it can be resisted of course, but the entire point of wildfire is the select enimity it gives, was not worried about damage,Perhaps you should actually read the post you quoted:

Not to say it's the best or most useful, but it is still the strongest.

[esoR]

Coronach is a great hate control WS as well, because no matter how much damage you do, the enimity is a lock on set, and is pretty low i think.

could be wrong, but doesnt coro actually lower your total enmity by a % each time you use it? which would put WF alongside namas for low hate.


another question to relic holders out there, how is the dmg of lvl 90 namas arrow? compared to slug/WF

[noodles355]

I believe someone did some testing on Wildfire and the enmity reduction was nothing close to as significant as Coronach/Namas. Also I believe Coronach's Aftermath is reduced enmity for the duration, not that the WS it's self lowers your enmity like High Jump. The WS it's self just has fixed enmity values independant of the damage delt.

[esoR]

aha, understood.

[Feliciaa]

I did mean to post asking if the WS dmg boost made Lv90 Coronach beat Slug, I thought I did but I obviously rushed and forgot >.>

I went out to East Sarutabaruta and did a very small test on Namas and Sidewinder just to give everyone some kind of idea on numbers.. (When I say small test I mean like 4 WSs total. It's late sorry >.>)

Naked Mithra RNG/SAM with 80 STR, 90 Yoichi and Kabura Arrows... Mob:Savanna Rarab (right outside the entrance)
With Velocity Shot...
2x Namas Arrow 2505
2x Sidewinder 3240

*Data is in no shape, way, or form solid enough to draw a definite conclusion since I did not try to WS in WS gear, WS without Velocity Shot nor do enough WSs.*
However, Namas should get very close to sidewinder numbers once you add in WS gear since it's 40%str and 40%agi vs. Sidewinder's 15%str and 25%agi.

Edit: all WSs were used just outside of melee.

[Catsby]

I went out to East Sarutabaruta and did a very small test on Namas and Sidewinder just to give everyone some kind of idea on numbers.. (When I say small test I mean like 4 WSs total. It's late sorry >.>)

Naked Mithra RNG/SAM with 80 STR, 90 Yoichi and Kabura Arrows... Mob:Savanna Rarab (right outside the entrance)
With Velocity Shot...
2x Namas Arrow 2505
2x Sidewinder 3240

*Data is in no shape, way, or form solid enough to draw a definite conclusion since I did not try to WS in WS gear, WS without Velocity Shot nor do enough WSs.*
However, Namas should get very close to sidewinder numbers once you add in WS gear since it's 40%str and 40%agi vs. Sidewinder's 15%str and 25%agi.

Edit: all WSs were used just outside of melee.

I'm not sure velocity shot will make a difference if your target has like 20 defense and you have 400+ ratk.

[Lumiya]

Kind of late to the party here, but I thought I would give my two cents on most of this. First off, I go RR/SS/GH for my RNG, and I honestly couldn't be happier. I tried a few other Atma, but in the end this is by far my favorite choice.

As for subjob, I normally go /WAR. I can see the purpose of /SAM, but honestly it boils down to Sekkanoki and Third Eye vs Berserk really. I still have a 5hit setup with Bow on both /SAM and /WAR, so that doesn't really change any, just a couple gear swaps. Meditate is almost entirely worthless in my eyes, a free three shots worth of TP every 3 minutes? Not exactly game breaking. The defensive capability of Seigan and Third eye would have to be the biggest advantage, but it still comes with a loss of damage.

Now in Abyssea, the way I look at it, is Berserk+Barrage+Arching Arrow(no Gandiva yet for me) basically caps out my CE on anything I fight. Likewise, Barrage+Sekkanoki+Arching Arrowx2 also caps out my CE. While most people would think that gives more credit to Seigan+Third Eye, in my opinion it gives more reason to go /WAR. With the way enmity functions, if you have two players with capped CE and no VE, every hit will pull hate until the other person hits. So if you let the tank get capped CE first, before you go all out, and then move into melee range, you will effectively not be tanking. You -will- pull hate every time a shot goes off, but most tanks are fast hitting jobs that will very quickly pull it back off of you. So why worry so much about defensive abilities at all?

Sorry if I worded things kind of poorly or didn't go into detail enough but how I play it, but I'd be glad to provide for info if desired. I love RNG quite a bit, and it is still such an amazing DD, but so few any more its hard to really get into good discussions about it.

[Feliciaa]

To me meditate plays a big role in /SAMs appeal. Those 3 free shots after just 30mins becomes 30 free shots or 600 tp with a 5 hit build and I did not even need to shoot anything.
Also, /SAM could go all out and add meditate to that barrage + sekkanoki + Arching Arrow x2 and be very close to enough tp for a 3rd Arching Arrow. Plus, I can start with Seigan + Third eye to prevent/stop the face rape I just signed up for.

/SAM is even more important out of abyssea. I can control hate much better then a /war since I could use meditate for tp and use Sekkanoki so I don't waste any extra TP. Or I can slow down my r.atk spam and make up for it with meditate.

This is just IMO though. I am very interested to know. What gear + bow are you using to make /WAR 5hit work? I think the information could be really good to have when looking into /SAM 4hit with a bow.

[Lumiya]

For /WAR 5hit I use Mekki Shakki/Rose Strap, Volley Earring, Rajas Ring, Sylvan Back, Sylvan Legs+1, and some Gules Leggings I got from a chest with +2STR on them. That is with a Vision Bow(Delay 524) and the typical 90 delay arrows. When I get Gandiva I'll need 3 more Store TP to keep the 5hit. As you can tell by the gear, I don't really lose much damage boosting, which is why I don't mind going that route; about the only things I miss are the RATK off Vulcan's and the critical damage+ off of Brave Strap.

Using /SAM though, I would need another 18 Store TP with Vision Bow to get a 4hit setup, not a very plausible idea. If I had the +2(or 1) hands I would gladly use those, but even +2 would put me 11 shy of the 4hit. The only other pieces of gear I could drop for Store TP without losing much damage would be Triumph for Brutal and my augmented Behemoth Ring for Hoard or that new +4 Store TP ring. Even then I would still be 6 short, and the only real viable option at that point is dropping AF3 body for Loki's full time, which would make a pretty big dent in my damage I believe. Theoretically if I had all of that and Gandiva and still wanted a 4hit, I would only need 2 more, but I can't think of a good way to get 2 Store TP off of the head/neck/waist, or any other pieces that provide more Store TP than what I already have.

[noodles355]

That's why Gun is fun. 4 hits are easy.
TP:
AF3+2 Head
Corvus Torque
Volley (2)
Clearview
AF3+2 Body
AF3+2 Gloves (7)
Horde Ring (4)
Rajas Ring (5)
AF3 Back (5)
Goading (5)
AF3+2 Legs (9)
AF3+2 Feet
TP/hit: 25.8

Slug Shot:
Flame Ring
Scout's Belt
Libeccio Mantle
TP/Hit: 23.5

Wildfire:
AF3+2 Head
Ugga Pen
Moldy
Hectate
Mirke
Skote
AGI Ring
Rajas (5)
AF3 Back (5)
Aquiline
AF3+2 Legs (9)
AF3+2 Feet
TP/hit: 22.9

[Alderin]

I am also new to RNG (only lvl 86 atm). Have half the WOE coins - by mistake, yet havn't even bothered trying to farm Fist/Bukhis yet - (Fistule can be solo'd on NIN. Although Bukhis I have bad memories of...)

As for atmas - I think it was stated earlier by someone else (not going to go back and read, might of been a different post) - but honestly, why Sea Daugher? Your nerfing the damage you can be getting out of Jinshu's quite a lot. Not to mention if you build together a 4/5-hit, with Double Shot active, this and Barrage every 5 mins you will be spamming WS's like a SAM main. As for the subtle blow excuse - if you are low manning something in Abyssea, your first mistake is bringing a RNG. When you have a big enough party to support DD-jobs-that-don't-really-proc, no one gives a rats about Subtle blow. (Apart from maybe the tank but mehh they will live).

A good tank - especially in Abyssea will not let the mob even look at you. In fact most *good* tanks can hold hate off Ukon WAR's simply because of attack speed.

While the servers were down, I roughed together what I see is a 4-hit (with /SAM) on FFXIAH and it is surpringly extremely easy to build on RNG with a Harrier +2.

Anyways this is my n00b RNG opinion- Atmas I will probably use will be RR/GH/SS. TP gear, well I can even link you.. This is what I am planning on building. (Perhaps replace Harrier with Gandiva - still undecided).

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/232994 (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/232994) (true 4-hit build from 0% TP, I think :D. Untested to be honest but the maths add up).

Oh as for subjob I am planning on pretty much full-timing /SAM (not due to meditate or sekka) but because of the STP II trait (+15 STP), which is pretty much needed for a 4-hit.

[esoR]

4 hit w/ gandiva doesnt work very well. you lose too much on ws to maintain it. 5-hit works pretty decenttly though. if you want to 4 hit, guns are perfect for that.

[Lumiya]

Hey Alderin, I was looking through your setup and I don't think that is going to work out. It looks like the counter on the side of the page is a bit off for how much Store TP it is giving also. With a total delay of 580(490+90) I'm showing a TP per hit of 14.8. With a delay that high, you need at least 69 Store TP for a sure fire 4 hit setup. With /SAM you are getting 15, dropping your required STP down to 54. I'm showing your setup as having...

4-Strap
2-Ear1
7-Hands
4-Ring1
5-Ring2
5-Back
9-Legs
4-Feet

For a total STP of 40. With /SAM you are only looking at 55 total and that would put you at 22.9 TP per hit. Overkill for a 5 hit and quite shy of a 4 hit. I think the issue is with ffxiah though as I do see their note on the side claiming 56 STP. It doesn't add up though.

[esoR]

FFXI ah counts 20 stp from rose strap. which throws calculation off

[Miera]

Gandiva with RR Omnipotent and Drifter/Stout

DEX build yay..

[esoR]

Gandiva with RR Omnipotent and Drifter/Stout

DEX build yay..

god i wish this worked...

[Alderin]

Hey Alderin, I was looking through your setup and I don't think that is going to work out. It looks like the counter on the side of the page is a bit off for how much Store TP it is giving also. With a total delay of 580(490+90) I'm showing a TP per hit of 14.8. With a delay that high, you need at least 69 Store TP for a sure fire 4 hit setup. With /SAM you are getting 15, dropping your required STP down to 54. I'm showing your setup as having...

4-Strap
2-Ear1
7-Hands
4-Ring1
5-Ring2
5-Back
9-Legs
4-Feet

For a total STP of 40. With /SAM you are only looking at 55 total and that would put you at 22.9 TP per hit. Overkill for a 5 hit and quite shy of a 4 hit. I think the issue is with ffxiah though as I do see their note on the side claiming 56 STP. It doesn't add up though.

Just came back to check up on this thread - and yes I noticed this a couple of days ago.. I facepalmed when I first noticed this - that all the calculating I went through went down the drain :/

In saying that - 5-hit is still pretty viable by sacrificing some of the STP in my set - and swapping it out with snapshot gear etc. I still think Sea Daughter is quite a waste as although you will get a bit more WS spam - you are nerfing your WS's quite a bit.

[esoR]

if you're on pc, you should be able to start your shots in snapshot gear, and finish in racc/atk/stp before the shot is fired, since snapshot effects the delay on firing, and not the delay between shots, this is possible.

the gear i have in my 5-hit is: rose strap(4), af3+2 gloves(7) af3+2 pants(9) hoard ring(4), rajas(5), and volley earring(2).
31 stp in gear + /sam's 15 = 46. i'm not sure of the calculations but its between 20.5 and 21 tp/shot. the rest of your gear can be dedicated to str/ratk

[xbobx]

I just got fake emp other day and been playing around with different setups trying to figure out what is best depending on the situation. I tried RR, SA and Sea Daughter and was doing up to 5.5k ws on the Khimara the one with +1 seals. It was fun to always have tp because then you could one shot other mobs in the area when bored. That was with /nin, still getting use to hate with new ws.
Now that I have the hate down, trying to figure if I go /war or /sam. /war seems nice for the go all out fast kills where /sam better for more drawn out fights.
then comes the Atma, Sea Daughter was nice and found more use getting tp while sitting there, but didn't seem extremely effective during the fight as much. Melee is nice, stick on VV, RR and apoc and you done, ranged is all over the place.

After reading all this, there really doesn't seem to be a best atma set. RR is a must, then you got GH SA SS and SD.

[Lumiya]

Sea Daughter is an atma I could see use for. I don't file it away as being impractical or worthless for RNG because it really isn't. Stout Arm and Drifter though I've personally put into that category. The RACC on Drifter may be needed in some situations, though I honestly don't see how. The STR/RATK from Stout Arm though I feel fails to boost your damage more than GH or SS can. At first when playing around with it I used RR/SA/Drifter. Then I moved to using SS and noticed a rather large damage boost in comparison. So then I went with RR/SS/SA, but I didn't see my normal shots going critical often enough and tried dropping SA for GH. High damage critical hits, and almost every hit is a critical. It seemed to me to be the best choice overall, so it is what I've been sticking to.

[esoR]

if you dont need the regainn (ie you're shooting for tp) then i personally like RR/GH/SA. its a good balance of r.attack and Racc with 40 str/50 agi. i'm usually /sam too, but i noticed it's max potential tapers off for ws damage. but aftermath procs on gandiva are very nice with it.

if you want to rely solely on crits. go RR/GH/SS and /war to cover the attack loss. again, GH covers your accuracy concerns, helping all 3 hits land. as for the other subs.. i personally rarely if ever take off /sam. i could live without the store tp traits, but seigan/TE/meditate/sekka is too much damage potential to give up. especially concidering how much tp overflow rng tends to get. (double shot/barrage)

[xbobx]

i just tested RR GH SA vs RR GH SS on vt worms SA gave more dmg then SS by about 5-7% or so.

[Lumiya]

How much damage were you doing with both xbobx? I'd love to see the actual numbers on that.

[xbobx]

it was no extensive testing but it was consistant enough for me to be sure.

with SS was doing around 720 avg with SA was doing 760 avg Jinsu (i hate ffxi spelling) 5200 avg with SS 5600 avg with SA.

as i said not extensive testing, but same equip same mobs, all VT and every hit with SA was more dmg then SS. I think it has more to do with the ratt then str. I notice when i don't eat pot au few (i am cheap sometimes) and forget velocity shot when i first start out i will hit 3700 with ws, eat food put on velocity it jumps into the mid 5k. Thats all Ratt no str.

[esoR]

the str adds ratk too, but my question is were you /war or /sam? because if you were /war, then the attack boost from berserk should theoretically out perform the ratk from SA. overall damage from rr/gh/sa is consistently high, changing to SS makes your crits higher, but your normal shots suffer a noticeable amount.

use your best judgement between the two.

[xbobx]

/sam all equip and food etc were the same , all i did was flux down and change the one atma. I have to try /war but need to find a lvl 30 shield to activate the 5% crit bonus with fencer. I think that works on ranged attack? but maybe not.

but overall seems things aren't massive differences either way. I can see subbing out GH for Sea Daughter for those times you just want to run around abyessa wrecking things. But all I can say is what a different that new weaponskill makes, but almost angers me that you really need to get that ws to compete.

[esoR]

i think you only have to wear one 1h weapon, doesn't require shield. i'd recommend carbinier's dagger or axe. i have no clue if fencer works on RAws, if it does that'd be nice.. cause it doesn't really work for anything war uses normally (or available for jobs that could use it daily)

i will say its kinda dissapointing on rng, when fighting nmns my nin can deal more dmg per ws, and live longer.. had many times where i'd fight an nm on rng, do 2-3k per ws, and i'd fight again on nin dealing 3-4k :/ abyssea just isnt fair .. lol

[xbobx]

wiki says fencer does working on ranged attack ws. Thanks about the shield bit, didnt know that.