Hagakure info

[Insaniac]

Hagakure (Lv. 95)
Grants "Save TP" effect and a TP bonus to your next weapon skill.

Recast - 5 minutes
Save TP - 20
TP bonus +100

Discuss.

[Dirtyfinger]

All I've gotta say it's just another damn JA to use before a WS, why couldn't they have just made a job trait giving TP bonus +20 instead?

Also, sucks for Amano.

[Nala]

Can't complain about the stats however I gotta agree with dirty, were kind of reaching a JA overload...

[Mirage]

Doesn't this mean we can sekkanoki and close a solo SC with 200 TP (300 if you have a TP bonus weapon)? Not too bad imo.

[Dirtyfinger]

I guess to some effect yes, just getting a bit confused at the moment.

[Asraa]

One JA shouldn't make or break a job, but this JA recast timer is simply way to long for a one time use. I foresee this JA being merit-able. How else can se justify the 5:00 re timer?

[Mirage]

It lines up perfectly with sekkanoki. That's how I will be using it, and I suspect that was SE's intension too.

[Insaniac]

If anyone wants to test if the TP bonus stacks on to the sekkanoki'd WS I will add it to the OP. My guess is that it does not.

[Mirage]

It probably doesn't, but that's not too important. WSing from 200 TP, only the first WS is sekkanokied, and gets the 100 tp modifier. You're left with 100 TP which lets you perform a normal WS, just like any other, unaffected by sekkanoki (sekka's already used up). The second WS would be what you'd want to put hagakure on too, seeing as that'll be the WS that closes your SC and you'd want extra damage on that one rather than the first.

I would find it extremely unlikely for this second WS to not get the TP boost. The only real question for me is if it will stack with TP bonuses on weapons. I think it will, but I'm not as sure as I am about the first thing I talked about. If anyone has got a hagun lying around somewhere (or the magian trial TP bonus katana), they could test that out.

[Dirtyfinger]

It probably would work with Sekkanoki's first WS, but you should be using Unkai Kote +2 for that anyway, rendering the new JA void.

[hiko]

/welcome relic+2 gear with enhance hagakure to 200TP bonus!(or 40 saved TP)

[Mirage]

It probably would work with Sekkanoki's first WS, but you should be using Unkai Kote +2 for that anyway, rendering the new JA void.

So then you use this ability for the second WS instead. No matter how you put it, I can't see how this won't be useful. It's not the most overpowered ability in the game, but outside abyssea, sam is pretty darn strong already.

[Dirtyfinger]

My point being there's too many JA's for WS use, not to mention it not benefiting relic owners in the slightest. A job trait with TP Bonus or better more - WS DMG % (Much like overwhelm) would be of more benefit across all WS, not just Fudo.

[Taint2]

My point being there's too many JA's for WS use, not to mention it not benefiting relic owners in the slightest. A job trait with TP Bonus or better more - WS DMG % (Much like overwhelm) would be of more benefit across all WS, not just Fudo.


The save TP benefits Amano but otherwise yeah...

SAM is a TP spamming monster atm and this just gives you an auto shaved hit for the next WS.

[Sophocles]

I think that this JA leaves a lot more to be desired. Only a one time WS? I think it is possible that the recast can be lowered to like three minutes. SAM needs something a little better than this. I think something like an Auto-Regain trait might be better.

[brayen]

I think that this JA leaves a lot more to be desired. Only a one time WS? I think it is possible that the recast can be lowered to like three minutes. SAM needs something a little better than this. I think something like an Auto-Regain trait might be better.

If you think auto regain is better then this JA then you need to re-evaluate your understanding. regain at best might let you drop a store tp slot and even then it might not even do that. This ja is very strong, dropping its JA would be good if you play sam but its already borderline the best JA in this update from what i have read. maybe with merits at 99 you can lower timers

[Asraa]

No one is saying that that this JA is weak WHEN you can use it. I do think it is a great addition to our bag of tricks. That being said, SAM is still lacking as a dd in comparison to war and mnk. With lackluster dot and WS dmg all sam has going for it is WS frequency. An Auto-Regain trait for SAM would further increase WS frequency.

[Nala]

meh perhaps in abyssea our ws damage and dot pails but thats not the end all be all, besides isnt that the point of samurai? high ws frequency and supplementing our damage with SC's the unfortunate side to that is in zerg situations its hard for us to pull off the optimal skill chain combination.

only annoying thing is keeping track of all our ja cool downs without a third party app.

[brayen]

exact;y, high ws frequency, they arnt tailored to be the brute. regain will NOT further our ws frequency at all, unless it gives us so much to maybe reach a 4-hit build? lol

As others have said a smaller tp bonus trait or something would of been better because we are a bit overloaded with ja that are all centered around WS

[Rearden]

If you think SAM needs anything, you never played SAM at 75 cap.

SAM is still the beast it was at 75 cap, it's just now a Masamune is a standard piece of equipment, much like the Hagun was.

If you're worried about WAR's and MNK's, maybe take a step out of Abyssea? Abyssea's only use is to get weapons, anything more and you're probably doing it wrong.

[Leylia]

I also would have preferred this to be a job trait rather than a job ability. Having to use Sekkanoki, Sengikori, Konzen-ittai, Kasha, Hagakure, Fudo just for an optimal (and if not resisted awesome) double Light SC is a bit much of a hassle and takes up way too much time in itself to not be interupted by others in a party or zerg situation like said before. Additinoally as Nala said, keeping track of so many abilities is possible but also gets troublesome without illegal help.

Of course the values would have to be lower (say divided by five = 4 save TP and 20TP bonus [personally I'd be fine with save TP 2 already]) but then they at least would be active on all WS rather increasing "DoT" than "spike" damage every 5 minutes and much easier to handle

[Malacite]

I JUST got the test server working last night, so I'll have to wait until tonight to confirm if the TP Bonus from this affects aftermath.

My suspicion however is that it won't, just like Sundering Slash doesn't in Abyssea (nor my Moonshade Earring I believe)

[Bayohne]

Regarding the requests to maintain the effects of Hagakure over a specified period of time, this would raise the strength of this ability too much, so implementation would be tough.

The save TP for Hagakure has the ability to reduce the number of attacks necessary to reach 100TP by 1 or 2. The TP bonus will be 100TP, similar to Hagun.

With these changes, our goal was to increase the frequency of weapon skills and their damage, but we shortened the recast time as well for the Test Server.

Try 'er out!

[Dragoy]

I did feel the re-use timer was a bit too large in scale, and I did anticipate it would be changed.


Good job!

[Asraa]

What is the new timer now?

[newzarb]

Hey Bayohne, thanks for the infos!
What about Tachi: Kaiten users (yes, there are still some) though ? TP bonus will be pretty much useless. :/

[Taint2]

What is the new timer now?


3min timer

[Gunblaze]

Interesting.

[hiko]

anybody tried in abyssea if it stack with saveTP atma?

[Thanotos]

samurai have such a hard life.........

[scaevola]

I also would have preferred this to be a job trait rather than a job ability. Having to use Sekkanoki, Sengikori, Konzen-ittai, Kasha, Hagakure, Fudo just for an optimal (and if not resisted awesome) double Light SC is a bit much of a hassle and takes up way too much time in itself to not be interupted by others in a party or zerg situation like said before. Additinoally as Nala said, keeping track of so many abilities is possible but also gets troublesome without illegal help.



With a three-minute cooldown, put Sengikori, Hagakure, and K-I into one macro. Assuming Sengi and Haga stack, there doesn't seem to be any reason or benefit for not considering these all one ability.

[Asraa]

For relic users tp bonus is rather lackluster. Instead of a tp bonus perhaps a direct percentage increase in ws dmg much like overwhelm would be more balanced.

[Rearden]

It does suck for Amano, hopefully they boost relics again so Masa doesn't shred it like it does currently. Sort of like the 1 minute Ochain you can get on PLD now :/

[Malacite]

I still would have just preferred a Save TP trait, even as a level 99 merit just to save on the macro-juggling. It's already getting a little crazy for us non-windower users with the gear swaps & bazillion job abilities that all need to be triggered before WS.

I wasn't expecting a drop in the recast though, that seems kinda overkill. But, as long as they're going to do that, why not drop Sekkanoki's recast to 3 minutes as well? This JA honestly seems to complement Sekka more than any other. If you have 200 TP, you can sekka (with Unkai +2 gloves) and get off two 200% TP ws. Or use Konzen-Ittai at the start to set up a 3-part chain (this is probably most ideal for Amano owners since you can double-Light more easily than Masamune owners thanks to Kaiten having Fragmentation property)


Or if you don't quite have 200 TP, couldn't you use this to help enable a 2nd ws after Sekka? I'm curious how (if at all) the save TP stacks with Sekka.

[Eckeward]

I think it's a shame that Save TP and TP Bonus are combined into one ability, as Save TP (along with Meditate) could be used to open a self-SC and TP Bonus is best used for closing a SC.

Perhaps if the Save TP was instead added into Konzen-Ittai then you'd only need ~60TP for another WS and the 3min recast time compliments Meditate.
Then, every 3 minutes we can: Meditate > Konzen-Ittai > Kasha (+ Light) > hopefully Fudo (+ Light)
And every 5mins: Sekkanoki+Sengikori > Fudo > Hak > Fudo > Light

[Yawaru]

Speaking as a SAM with Masamune and having done endgame for years, SAM still leaves a bit to be desired in the DD department. Yeah maybe I'm just jealous of the e-peen numbers the Ukon WARs get with Ukko's Fury, but Fudo just isn't that great. Inside Abyssea it's ok, but outside on any high DEF HNM it's just sad. My LS kills AV a couple times a week, and honestly I prefer to use my Widowmaker WAR over my Masamune SAM because Fudo doesn't work well against high DEF mobs. Usually I drop a 300 TP Fudo at the start for Aftermath then spam Gekko because it fairs a little better. Also on AV and Voidwatch you can't always WS from the front, like Voidwrought and its AoE attacks with stun and Amnesia or AV and its high parry rate, so I lose out on Overwelm. That's not to say this JA isn't a welcome edition, but I hope they tweak Fudo to be a more useful WS, cause all the jobs with crit WS have a distinct advantage. How about they give SAM that ability they're giving WAR for a guaranteed crit if it applies to WS, then you could close a SC with a crit WS for some real damage.

[Taint2]

Speaking as a SAM with Masamune and having done endgame for years, SAM still leaves a bit to be desired in the DD department. Yeah maybe I'm just jealous of the e-peen numbers the Ukon WARs get with Ukko's Fury, but Fudo just isn't that great. Inside Abyssea it's ok, but outside on any high DEF HNM it's just sad. My LS kills AV a couple times a week, and honestly I prefer to use my Widowmaker WAR over my Masamune SAM because Fudo doesn't work well against high DEF mobs. Usually I drop a 300 TP Fudo at the start for Aftermath then spam Gekko because it fairs a little better. Also on AV and Voidwatch you can't always WS from the front, like Voidwrought and its AoE attacks with stun and Amnesia or AV and its high parry rate, so I lose out on Overwelm. That's not to say this JA isn't a welcome edition, but I hope they tweak Fudo to be a more useful WS, cause all the jobs with crit WS have a distinct advantage. How about they give SAM that ability they're giving WAR for a guaranteed crit if it applies to WS, then you could close a SC with a crit WS for some real damage.


For stuff like VW just go /THF. A single Masamune SAM/THF is all you need to bring down the tier 4s. (before yesterdays update, I haven't done the new ones) AV you should be /war with songs and red curry. Since the Zanhasso update I have zero qualms with going SAM in any zone. No you won't do 8k WSs but your WS frequency should come close to double that of a WAR.