EX Staff weapons skills for whm only?

[Cabalabob]

I dunno about anyone else but it rly annoys me how WHM, a job that has club as its main weapon, gets access to the EX staff weapon skills (earth crusher, sunburst, cataclysm) instead of jobs such as smn blm and sch who main staff! since the level cap rise so many subs are better for smn now like rdm for refresh or sch for storm spells yet i find so that i can do the staff triggers for NMs in abyssea i'm still stuck /whm. I really think smn and other jobs that main staff should get access to these weapon skills so we can explore other subjob options.

edit: by WHM only i mean as a mage job, i'm aware PLD MNK ect. get it aswell ets club PLD gets even so why should they get it over the jobs who use staff as their main weapon, and get staff as their relic/mythic/empyrean?

[Dallas]

They are lovely WS, but SE just knows that those WS are suicide when used by a SMN, BLM or SCH. Solve the hate issue and SE will probably let you have the new toy (see my AOE thread).

[Malamasala]

Yea, I hate that. Who has magian DD staffs? SMN, SCH, BLM. Who has EX staff WSes? WHM.

I think that specifically SMN, who has no spells whatsover, should be proficient in staff WSes. In fact I think it should get the same treatment as DNC, having extra accuracy traits since it has no spells, just their staff and a pet.

[JagerForrester]

WHM might have been given the exclusive weaponskills because it is a base job who's main offense was decided to be their weapon. A BLM, SMN, and SCH in terms of offense was either elemental spells or the summons.

But it is still mind-boggling why certain jobs have a high skill in a weapon but do not get the exclusive weaponskills in that weapon. I've yet understood the reasoning why certain job types (mage-based, melee-based, ranged-based, or combination of) are given the certain spells and ex weaponskills they were given. Right now I can say the only solution to that is sub Paladin, Warrior, Monk, or White Mage you melee mages out there.

[Sargent]

I would agree, would be nice to have more mage jobs with native access to red proc weaponskills. I don't wanna have to sub whm to do it.

[jeffanddane]

can sub monk XD

[Dallas]

/WAR is more useful.

[Malamasala]

PLD sounds like the only real option though, since you probably want cures if you are up front (and don't trust other mages to cover you)

[JagerForrester]

I re-evaluated why certain jobs had high skills in a weapon but not the exclusive weaponskills. I figured this relates to SE's desire for players to experiment in different job combinations. You may want to sub RDM or SCH for the refresh options, but in some situations, like trigger procs, you should sub a job so you can have access to those weaponskills.

It does limit options, but SE didn't want players to be stuck subbing the same subjob because of its best effect(s).

[jeffanddane]

if you really wanna do some dmg . . . . just saying to get more use out of using summoner to its fullest go /sam >.> i know i know it sounds bad. But i do it in abyssea all the time i can do retribution for 700-1.2k and my pet does about 3k but i don't take a min to build up tp. It dont give you access to ex skill but still its amazing dmg from smn if you have kirins pole

[Dallas]

Minikin/Ultimate/Beyond/wrong staff gives 800-1550 AOE damage Cataclysms. Obviously this isn't the best DD setup, but it is a very popular Atma setup for SMN. Throw the dark damage magian staff on there and swap Minikin for Cosmos. Then use Diabolos for Dream Shroud and macro in all your MAB gear. I think 2500 damage is possible.

Lastly, be sure to use Reraise, because you're not going to survive it.

[Malamasala]

Ideally I'd want /SAM to give Cataclysm for better TP building and Cataclysm. (Even though I can survive on my 1.5k Garlands Bliss if I'm not allowed to AOE)

[Strife]

@Dallas
Hehehe sounds like fun I'm going to give it a try! You must build TP at a glacial pace without regain atma though :(

I think JagerForrester hit the nail on the head in his first post as to why SMN don't have these WS but I'd like to see us get them anyway^^

[Dallas]

Not so slow even with /WHM, I use OA4 Yantok +2 and full haste gear with or without Minikin. I'm at 250% TP before I can find a safe place to use Cataclysm. Enmity is my limiting factor.

I get much better overall performance with physical pact Atma builds. I've seen Spirit Taker return 300-700 MP at 100% TP (take that, Myrkr). It also creates a much closer balance between smn and pet. I can only imagine what catastrophe awaits me if I ever go back and switch to /SAM.

Cataclysm is beautiful, but it is totally wrong for any staff wielding job.

[Superchicken]

whm main weapon so you call it may be club in terms of DDing but again how often is whm dding (abyssea hexa strike proc pretty much, unless you like going out and messing around as winja), but lets be honest 99% of the time what weapon does a whm have equiped? Surya's staff +2 > Dryiad / healing staff > apollo's staff. So really my WHM mains staff. Only time i have a club on is for hexa proc or idle in owl eyes

[JagerForrester]

I think JagerForrester hit the nail on the head in his first post as to why SMN don't have these WS but I'd like to see us get them anyway^^

I think you mean my 2nd post (#9) when I mentioned SE wanted players to explore job combination. But then I guess I answered it in #4 with the simple answer of subbing.

Eh, ego +1. Thank you for the skillup!

[Dallas]

whm main weapon so you call it may be club in terms of DDing but again how often is whm dding (abyssea hexa strike proc pretty much, unless you like going out and messing around as winja), but lets be honest 99% of the time what weapon does a whm have equiped? Surya's staff +2 > Dryiad / healing staff > apollo's staff. So really my WHM mains staff. Only time i have a club on is for hexa proc or idle in owl eyes

That's fair, but would you melee with staff? SMN aren't as busy as WHM.

[Strife]

No I meant this:


WHM might have been given the exclusive weaponskills because it is a base job who's main offense was decided to be their weapon. A BLM, SMN, and SCH in terms of offense was either elemental spells or the summons.

SE has often been more caught up in their own ethos for the jobs than the jobs practicality.

[JagerForrester]

That's not really true about saying SMNs aren't as busy as WHMs. It depends on the situation. SMNs may need to rebuff multiple buffs and do something about their Rage pact being at 0:00 while WHMs may be waiting for the next hit so he/she can throw the next cure. Or it could be the other way around where the SMN is just Siphoning for MP while the WHM is spamming Cure to keep the party alive.

@Strife
Ah, I was thinking out loud. Cool. Even I didn't know I said the right answer, lol.

[Malamasala]

Not so slow even with /WHM, I use OA4 Yantok +2 and full haste gear with or without Minikin. I'm at 250% TP before I can find a safe place to use Cataclysm. Enmity is my limiting factor.

I actually never thought about that so much, but OA4 may be vastly superior to my OAT, when magical WSes care less about DMG ratings than normal WSes. Though I did make this staff primarly for Spirit Taker and I believe at least that is DMG based, right? Else I'll regret not re-lotting those antlion jaws last week. Not that I'd ever want to go through all those item hunts.

[Dallas]

Spirit Taker does work better with high damage staves, and so does every other hit. You probably aren't losing out.

I originally built OA4 to swap /DNC instead of /WHM (Haste Samba + Waltzes). I didn't plan on Abyssea requiring /WHM for these WS, so this build hasn't seen the light yet.