Torcleaver numbers.

[Mortechai]

Hey guys, I'am starting my Caladbolg and I'am looking to get some data on Torcleaver just to make myself happy. Wiki is sparse in terms of raw data so I figured I'd come ask here. I'am looking for screenshots of damage numbers, atma setups and gear used during the weaponskill if at all possible. Thanks in advance for any information provided :).

[Rezeak]

I don't have any screen shots but with WoE Version.

In abyssea with i can do 2-4k /SAM using Griffion claw, VV and Smiting blow/mounted champ(VIT mod)

With /THF and RR + Griffion claw i have gotten spikes of up to 6-7k with the avg being around 5.5k (3rd atma is usally smiting blow or sea daugter)

Outside abyssea u can get it to avg 1.5-2kish i think /SAM and get like 4k with /THF

Edit : Gear wise i use Twilight head, Adaman Body, the +12 STR hands, AF3+2 Legs/feet, Raja + Vit ring,Brutal + Bale Earring , 20 attack 3% Da back, and Warwolf belt.

U'd want to use Twilight or Ares body over Adaman and for belt i sometime use the Aqualine belt for the ftp boost.

[Ash]

In abyssea, dmg can vary a lot depending on what you fight (low 500 to 5000 /sam) usually if its a mob with a lot of defense, your dmg is gonna take a hit.

outside abyssea id say 2k is my average still /sam

For atma depending on the situation ill use either VV,RR<apoc,smithing blow,griphon claw or mounted champion.

this is all with lvl 85 caladbolg

[Mortechai]

I have twilight body and head right now with a fairly wide selection of +vit gear that I use on my war for steel cyclone. Just trying to get a rough idea of what Torc's dmg should be like for me. Ya'll data is right on the mark as far as my expectations, appreciate it :D. Id really love for others to post screens though XD. Then I'd be in heaven.

[Seoha]

My Torcleavers sucks way beyond comprehension >_> seriously, ask Zicdeh, Gradd and Raen, the people trying tohelp me out with my Torcleaver numbers.

I'm at 340 GS skill and the DMG seems VERY jumpy and random.
Sometimes peaks as high as 2.7k (couldn't go past that). At times it goes back to 500.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/196245

^
Gear I'm currently using, needs more work though I admit.

[Ash]

My Torcleavers sucks way beyond comprehension >_> seriously, ask Zicdeh, Gradd and Raen, the people trying tohelp me out with my Torcleaver numbers.

I'm at 340 GS skill and the DMG seems VERY jumpy and random.
Sometimes peaks as high as 2.7k (couldn't go past that). At times it goes back to 500.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/196245

^
Gear I'm currently using, needs more work though I admit.

Like i said in my previous post if the mob in abyssea your fighting has high def, you torcleaver dmg will take a hit.

your gear seems ok, your focusing on att, and putting vit and str on slot where they are available, just a question is 2.7k your best dmg on a normal mob or nms?

[Mortechai]

You guys also seem to be foucusing alot on +str. Wouldnt a greater focus on the WS's vit modifier yield higher average damage?

[Ash]

You guys also seem to be foucusing alot on +str. Wouldnt a greater focus on the WS's vit modifier yield higher average damage?

Not on str on attack, unlike spinnin slash, torcleaver doesn t get ahuge att boost, and also theres the fact drk doesn t have that much vit gear to rely on. so basically gear with att and vit on (Twilight helm) are best.

[Seoha]

Like i said in my previous post if the mob in abyssea your fighting has high def, you torcleaver dmg will take a hit.

your gear seems ok, your focusing on att, and putting vit and str on slot where they are available, just a question is 2.7k your best dmg on a normal mob or nms?

I honestly don't remember, I'm sorry.
I'm thinking 2.7k was my highest on a normal mob.
I haven't fought too many NM's as DRK since I got my Caladbolg to be very honest.

[Rezeak]

What atmas you using?

I find Griffin Claw + VV + Apoc on /SAM really good and u should get 3-4k when u proc a triple attack.

I had a few 3k with just VV RR and Griffion last night without SA (wasn't at 100% tp tho)

As for Gear i agree on the capping attack with gear then using atmas to boost the base DMG (Griffin/Mounted champ/Smiting blow)

[Seoha]

I've always used Claw, VV, RR. Or Apoc, VV, RR.
And always /sam, no exceptions.

[Rydstrom]

I've always used Claw, VV, RR. Or Apoc, VV, RR.
And always /sam, no exceptions. why do people insist on RR for drk? i thought it was bad. griffin claw? why? use VV SA Apopc or AO trust me

[Rezeak]

Not only will the 50 dex will cap out any acc you may need it increase your melee dmg alot (like nearly doubles ur melee dmg)

Griffin claw i may not of worked out the numbers but this gives me the largest boost to my overall WS DMG with a +10acc/atk boost as bonus.

Honestly i'd never use SA since u should have fstr capped with VV and i can cap attack easily enough with endark/food/temp items also if i need attack i'd use AO.

My best performing atma are VV RR griffin or VV Apoc Griffin
But for events i usally just use VV RR and sea daugther so i can cover all the red staggers.

[Seoha]

why do people insist on RR for drk? i thought it was bad. griffin claw? why? use VV SA Apopc or AO trust me

The reason was in the other thread.
I pop last resort and souleater after I torcleaver, with hasso and haste songs in order to improve my DoT with aftermath effect of Torcleaver.
Critical hit under the aftermath status is very strong, sometimes it can reach 1k in damage.

And that's why I insist.

Griffin's Claw , fyi, is a very useful atma for Torcleaver (which has no ATK bonus as you probably already know). I can't say for others, but those are my reasons.

[Taint]

why do people insist on RR for drk? i thought it was bad. griffin claw? why? use VV SA Apopc or AO trust me

RR does more for damage then any other Atma, add in the fact that a Caladbolg DRK is rocking a 6hit at best DoT plays a large roll. The ODD AM also sides with RR. VV,RR,Apoc will parse best for any mob you are freely TPing and cap fSTR so you can stack VIT/att gear for WS.

[Superchicken]

RR is very big for things like your dmg while in aftermatch and the critical hit rate it provides will add more to your DoT. if all you are doing is standing around gaining TP through atma regain and running in and drop ws and getting outt then yeah maybe you could not use RR, but when you are in there dding it out and especially when you have a Crit hit WS you are pretty much foolish to not use RR

[Jar]

Plaugebringer, Apoc, RR all the way


Also why all the insisting on using VV <_< hats horrid for DRK now

[Seoha]

Plaugebringer, Apoc, RR all the way


Also why all the insisting on using VV <_< hats horrid for DRK now

Honestly, I fail to see how the str output, double atk and regain is horrid.
If anything, PLaguebringer is much worst. Gear for life outside FFXI, don't gear for life inside abyssea.

We can 5-hit a lot of crap without plaguebringer (except for maybe, that caladbolg).
And if you can't 5 hit without plaguebringer, why not do something OUTSIDE abyssea for a change? Like, I don't know, work in that aurum cuirass or askar korazin or something.

[Jar]

Honestly, I fail to see how the str output, double atk and regain is horrid.


Plaugebringer Has the same double attack. DRK can easily cap Fstr without the extra from VV regain does almost nothing compared to 20 STP

[vedder]

ive been curious about that actually jar, what is the actual DA on vv an pb? ive been curious about store tp builds(atma wise) vs the usual apoc/rr/vv

also since i see myself 2boxing alot of nm myself (drk+whm mule) what atma in everyones opinion should i be using via tanking?

drk/sam
drk/nin
and oddly drk/mnk which i hear is good using gh/rr and roaring laughter but i dont have any numbers just what other veteren drk have posted

this is assuming i have caladbolg or w/e dif weapon you all think would be most efficient (not above "desecrating" myself to axes or swords over scythe/greatsword if i gotta sadly :( ....)

[Raelia]

Purely for WHM duo/lowman, I like DRK/SAM RR+Sanguine Scythe+Impregnable Tower. Fat stack of HP for survivability, good crit rate and crit damage. You can drop Tower for VV or GH if you want more kill speed instead of 3k+ HP, but I'm usually #2 to a MNK who I'd rather let have hate for Counter tanking, so raw damage is less important.

Tower is extra nice for landing Stun a few extra times on mobs that have/build resistance and getting a little extra out of the rest of your magic. It's great to know a mob is Stun immune instead of wondering if you're just being resisted.

[Returner]

DRK/MNK like you said is a sweet combo. I usually do RR/RL/GH to lowman. It can definitely deal some nice damage. Compare to a mnk, it is really just 10% counter rate difference since counter rate caps at 80%, tested. If you have a nice MDB set, you are only vulnerable to devastating TP move from a mob. I have used it to tank many things, and you can generally tank anything a MNK/WAR can as long as you have a WHM.

[Jar]

Purely for WHM duo/lowman, I like DRK/SAM RR+Sanguine Scythe+Impregnable Tower. Fat stack of HP for survivability, good crit rate and crit damage. You can drop Tower for VV or GH if you want more kill speed instead of 3k+ HP, but I'm usually #2 to a MNK who I'd rather let have hate for Counter tanking, so raw damage is less important.

Tower is extra nice for landing Stun a few extra times on mobs that have/build resistance and getting a little extra out of the rest of your magic. It's great to know a mob is Stun immune instead of wondering if you're just being resisted.

From What i read RR and sanguine scythes crti damage + dont stack alsoaything above 3K HP is overdoing it for most things for the most part you can get that w/o HP atma.

Also on the STP atma thing thats what i use all around even tho i can 5hit a scythe w/o it because i like because flexable with my gear and the regen is awesome.

for Cala tho it is crazy better than the other possible 6 hits. need almost no stp gear can cap gear haste and gear for Attack/haste.

[Jar]

DRK/MNK like you said is a sweet combo. I usually do RR/RL/GH to lowman. It can definitely deal some nice damage. Compare to a mnk, it is really just 10% counter rate difference since counter rate caps at 80%, tested. If you have a nice MDB set, you are only vulnerable to devastating TP move from a mob. I have used it to tank many things, and you can generally tank anything a MNK/WAR can as long as you have a WHM.


I thought that was just a troll post on FFXIAH forums lol

I for one don't have /mnk to try but I don't think it would be that good~

from what i see Counter doesn't give TP and than losing 10% haste from hasso would really cut your DD abilities plus all the odd atmas would cut too.

[Raelia]

Yeah, and not getting hit 80% of the time and instead hitting the mob for free damage is a huge downside.

Protip: 80% counter rate will crush 10% haste.

[Dart]

yes drk/mnk + whm mule can duo many things, even when I get hit I can just cata back my hp, the whm is mostly there for enfeebles, haste, na's etc. Its pretty powerful/fun
]
I use RR, Apoc, Gnarled Horn for this set up always

[Jar]

Yeah, and not getting hit 80% of the time and instead hitting the mob for free damage is a huge downside.

Protip: 80% counter rate will crush 10% haste.

well i was thinking more on the lines that your not going to keep hate but duo i could see it working

[Jar]

yes drk/mnk + whm mule can duo many things, even when I get hit I can just cata back my hp, the whm is mostly there for enfeebles, haste, na's etc. Its pretty powerful/fun
]
I use RR, Apoc, Gnarled Horn for this set up always

For duo tho i like /sch more for things weak to dread spikes

put on a HP atma have3.4K~ HP and just go crazy while you have spikes up use the JA to lower recast can keep them up alot and when down i just spam temp items or kite

[Dart]

it crushes any other SJ for duo'ing

[Dart]

Only time you need hp that high is if you're worried about getting one shotted, and at 90 the list of things that can do that without an hp atma and all merit abyssites is pretty low (i'm easily pushing 2500+ hp without any hp atma). The counter is just broken, I get bored on my mule and never drop below 1500 mp

[Jar]

Only time you need hp that high is if you're worried about getting one shotted, and at 90 the list of things that can do that without an hp atma and all merit abyssites is pretty low (i'm easily pushing 2500+ hp without any hp atma). The counter is just broken, I get bored on my mule and never drop below 1500 mp

the HP is to make dread spikes last max duration(max ammount absorbed is 50%(66.7%something with Eaf+2 body) your max HP) just saying it because things die really fast when you almost full time dread spikes

[Dart]

they die faster to 80% counter rates, plus its much safer for you personally.

[Jar]

they die faster to 80% counter rates, plus its much safer for you personally.
mehh to each his own
you could just say that you like your way over mine over saying you are better tho <_<

i even get called a dick on here some people...

[Raelia]

Because singularized thinking on how to play a job is exactly the problem you and Gradd seem to have.

A DRK that only parties with DNC and BRD, only uses Hasso, only uses DD Atma, only deals physical damage... is a crap DRK. They might be doing the most damage possible, but they're useless and generally outclassed even if damage is the only goal.

You don't even stop to consider our thinking, and why we think. You only regurgitate the same schtick that results in turning DRK into some kind of pure DD and ignore any other possibility.

[Jar]

Because singularized thinking on how to play a job is exactly the problem you and Gradd seem to have.

A DRK that only parties with DNC and BRD, only uses Hasso, only uses DD Atma, only deals physical damage... is a crap DRK. They might be doing the most damage possible, but they're useless and generally outclassed even if damage is the only goal.

You don't even stop to consider our thinking, and why we think. You only regurgitate the same schtick that results in turning DRK into some kind of pure DD and ignore any other possibility.

this sparked from an argument over /sch or /mnk is better for duoing? and im sticking to the norm?

the job is a physical DD if you want it to do something odd im sure it can, but it will always be best at what it was made to do and that is physical damage.


yea it is totaly possable to do ok damage other ways but you will not beat a haste whoring drk with a MAB whoring one.

situational atma is just that situational and if the situation does not call for special atma the normal DD ones will always win.

i do consider your thinking but you dont consider you where not the first to think of it? have i not say that i have done most things i talk about and if i have not that i say quite bluntly that i have not.

[Dart]

facts are the facts, its just the way it is. I'm not telling you how to do your soloing, i'm just pointing out the most efficient way to. Abyssea is easy mode.

[Dart]

Because singularized thinking on how to play a job is exactly the problem you and Gradd seem to have.

A DRK that only parties with DNC and BRD, only uses Hasso, only uses DD Atma, only deals physical damage... is a crap DRK. They might be doing the most damage possible, but they're useless and generally outclassed even if damage is the only goal.

You don't even stop to consider our thinking, and why we think. You only regurgitate the same schtick that results in turning DRK into some kind of pure DD and ignore any other possibility.

Well to me drk is a dd, its what we're classified as and how i've played the job for god knows how long, but we can't dd on an even playing field with the other "dd" jobs so our job is not desired/wanted. Its why taint and I have been screaming for help with our melee phase so much. We want to compete.

[Gradd]

Because singularized thinking on how to play a job is exactly the problem you and Gradd seem to have.

A DRK that only parties with DNC and BRD, only uses Hasso, only uses DD Atma, only deals physical damage... is a crap DRK. They might be doing the most damage possible, but they're useless and generally outclassed even if damage is the only goal.

You don't even stop to consider our thinking, and why we think. You only regurgitate the same schtick that results in turning DRK into some kind of pure DD and ignore any other possibility.

I only think about doings things one way? Really? I am pretty sure I am the first person to come out with /Mnk Tanking on the FFXIAH forums as far as DRK is concerned and I strongly fight and support it. There was a huge discussion over it with me getting bashed (just play MNK) and other bullshit. But now people seem to be more open towards the idea of using it.

In terms of raw Damage Drk/Sam is the best possible combination, there is no if ands or buts about it. Drk/Mnk is simply just a means to allow you to tank harder NMs that you normally could not /Sam, while playing Drk and not having to give into other jobs. Drk/Mnk in no way compares to /sam in any way shape or form in terms of raw Damage, its simply a means to stay alive.

So if you are only dealing physical damage you are doing it wrong? You do realize casting spells of any kind (absorb TP included) during your TP phase is an utter waste and only hinders your over all damage. I have a complete Dark Magic Set, Mixed haste/Dark magic set, a Full out Nuking set, enfeebling set and god knows what else for Drk. But if I am meleeing I am not going to waste my time and use either of it. My DRK would blow your mind with how complicated my Spell Cast XML and Gear sets actually are, I take the job well beyond your level of comprehension. I have seen your DRK (awesome plastron) and there is nothing impressive about it whatsoever.

I happen to take DRK very seriously, mainly because its such a god awful job compared to others, so you absolutely cannot half ass it. So whats the point of playing it if you arent playing to be the absolute very best?

I consider your thinking and I look at it, but then realize instantly its flawed. Why is it flawed? Because its not the most optimal perfect way of doing things. Good players in FFXI have a tendency to find out the very best possible way of doing something and then they stick with it. Why? Because it outclasses everything else.

Most of the information you spit out is crap without even being able to back it up, and you honestly wonder why I insult you?

Seriously stop trying to be Different, Different does not = Better. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that.

[Jar]

Well to me drk is a dd, its what we're classified as and how i've played the job for god knows how long, but we can't dd on an even playing field with the other "dd" jobs so our job is not desired/wanted. Its why taint and I have been screaming for help with our melee phase so much. We want to compete.

i dont see this are hard as you do for some reason......

drk isnt that much behind it is just alot harder to do right.

i mean a war doing as much to boost his dmg as i do on drk would rip me apart because they do have better things but its not SO much better that i think we need some gigantic update like making last resost full timeable or crazy new magic and weaponskills

id go just giving us more ATTack and getting a very small boost to guillotine like from the .8something fTP to like .95

[Jar]

I only think about doings things one way? Really? I am pretty sure I am the first person to come out with /Mnk Tanking on the FFXIAH forums as far as DRK is concerned and I strongly fight and support it. There was a huge discussion over it with me getting bashed (just play MNK) and other bullshit. But now people seem to be more open towards the idea of using it.

In terms of raw Damage Drk/Sam is the best possible combination, there is no if ands or buts about it. Drk/Mnk is simply just a means to allow you to tank harder NMs that you normally could not /Sam, while playing Drk and not having to give into other jobs. Drk/Mnk in no way compares to /sam in any way shape or form in terms of raw Damage, its simply a means to stay alive.

So if you are only dealing physical damage you are doing it wrong? You do realize casting spells of any kind (absorb TP included) during your TP phase is an utter waste and only hinders your over all damage. I have a complete Dark Magic Set, Mixed haste/Dark magic set, a Full out Nuking set, enfeebling set and god knows what else for Drk. But if I am meleeing I am not going to waste my time and use either of it. My DRK would blow your mind with how complicated my Spell Cast XML and Gear sets actually are, I take the job well beyond your level of comprehension. I have seen your DRK (awesome plastron) and there is nothing impressive about it whatsoever.

I happen to take DRK very seriously, mainly because its such a god awful job compared to others, so you absolutely cannot half ass it. So whats the point of playing it if you arent playing to be the absolute very best?

I consider your thinking and I look at it, but then realize instantly its flawed. Why is it flawed? Because its not the most optimal perfect way of doing things. Good players in FFXI have a tendency to find out the very best possible way of doing something and then they stick with it. Why? Because it outclasses everything else.

Most of the information you spit out is crap without even being able to back it up, and you honestly wonder why I insult you?

Seriously stop trying to be Different, Different does not = Better. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that.

Damn gradd makes me feel stupid some times, replied to that in a way i couldn't have ;-; i agree tho this is how it is

[Raelia]

Well to me drk is a dd, its what we're classified as and how i've played the job for god knows how long, but we can't dd on an even playing field with the other "dd" jobs so our job is not desired/wanted. Its why taint and I have been screaming for help with our melee phase so much. We want to compete.

Wasn't my point. If dealing damage is all you want to do, feel free to only do the things that stack best towards that ideal. Just don't come storming into some thread with an assertation that it's the only way to play DRK, especially when it comes to Abyssea. /MNK for 80% counter rate is just one example, Cosmos+MAB+Multihit is another.

Some people put so much effort into being an incomprehensible asshole about people not playing a job in an exact manner or even just contemplating alternatives. It's sickening that /MNK+GH+RL has to be explained to people in this context (though the 80% cap on counter making it almost as effective as MNK main is recent news) because there is so much obtuse dogma surrounding DRK. Silly ideas like "Casting is never worthwhile", "Zerging is dead", and the recent horror "Accuracy is irrelevant".

If you can't keep up with Crit jobs because you don't have a Crit WS... why are you still trying to use a Crit build to compete with them? It's not a failure to think outside the box, it's confining yourself to your fancied corner of the box and staring at the wall.

Yes, DRK needs a little something. It doesn't mean you should go about with the standard 'Hit things four or five times, WS' mentality. Look at the new TP Bonus GS and Griffon's Claw for Ground Strike spam. Take a look at Cosmos/MAB/Kirin Multihit+Endark+Infernal Scythe. Get a WHM buddy and be just as or even more effective than MNK main by Counterstance tanking (As Jar mentions, a good Dread Spikes will outdo countering in the short term, but it isn't worth going /SCH for).

Hell, I think this is the opportune time to try all the other shit DRK has to offer. Just please stop whining about our melee output if the only thing you're trying to do is melee.



I have seen your DRK (awesome plastron)

And my spellcast is just complex enough to always put me in idle gear when FFXIAH scans me just to catch assholes like you looking. Way to be a douchebag.

[Jar]

Wasn't my point. If dealing damage is all you want to do, feel free to only do the things that stack best towards that ideal. Just don't come storming into some thread with an assertation that it's the only way to play DRK, especially when it comes to Abyssea. /MNK for 80% counter rate is just one example, Cosmos+MAB+Multihit is another.

Some people put so much effort into being an incomprehensible asshole about people not playing a job in an exact manner or even just contemplating alternatives. It's sickening that /MNK+GH+RL has to be explained to people in this context (though the 80% cap on counter making it almost as effective as MNK main is recent news) because there is so much obtuse dogma surrounding DRK. Silly ideas like "Casting is never worthwhile", "Zerging is dead", and the recent horror "Accuracy is irrelevant".

If you can't keep up with Crit jobs because you don't have a Crit WS... why are you still trying to use a Crit build to compete with them? It's not a failure to think outside the box, it's confining yourself to your fancied corner of the box and staring at the wall.

Yes, DRK needs a little something. It doesn't mean you should go about with the standard 'Hit things four or five times, WS' mentality. Look at the new TP Bonus GS and Griffon's Claw for Ground Strike spam. Take a look at Cosmos/MAB/Kirin Multihit+Endark+Infernal Scythe. Get a WHM buddy and be just as or even more effective than MNK main by Counterstance tanking (As Jar mentions, a good Dread Spikes will outdo countering in the short term, but it isn't worth going /SCH for).

Hell, I think this is the opportune time to try all the other shit DRK has to offer. Just please stop whining about our melee output if the only thing you're trying to do is melee.

why did you skip me and gradd and go after dart <_<

[Raelia]

why did you skip me and gradd and go after dart <_<

Because he seems sensible. You get common knowledge mixed up (two second WS delay, for example) and Gradd just wants to come in here and scream "GIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMP!!" at anyone not swinging an Empyrean.

[Jar]

Because he seems sensible. You get common knowledge mixed up (two second WS delay, for example) and Gradd just wants to come in here and scream "GIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMP!!" at anyone not swinging an Empyrean.
gunna go off and say that i said you can melee durring WS animations the delay isnt during the animation...

Oh and "GIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMP!!" at anyone not swinging an Empyrean. is what ppl say in a thread all about an empyrean weaponskill.

and if you are really the Raelia on diabolos im just going to add you to ignore because you dont have the gear to be talking like you know what you are doing...

i mean it would be one thing to spout off that you know math but to call us retarded and lacking common knowledge when you dont even have the gear to test your odd base assumptions than insulting us when we tell you why you are wrong..

[vedder]

ok before more bombs go off thank you for confirming my belief and sry i didnt give you credit for that thought gradd, couldnt recall if it was you or zicdeh that started that thread on ffxiah

now to get my mnk 25-30 and leech like woah

any point in attempting to skill up guard.....heard its terribad to skill but as you can see im by no means mnk-knowledgeable

[Raelia]

and if you are really the Raelia on diabolos im just going to add you to ignore because you dont have the gear to be talking like you know what you are doing...

i mean it would be one thing to spout off that you know math but to call us retarded and lacking common knowledge when you dont even have the gear to test your odd base assumptions than insulting us when we tell you why you are wrong..

And my spellcast is just complex enough to always put me in idle gear when FFXIAH scans me just to catch assholes like you looking. Way to be a douchebag.

rofl. These guys, people...

Your first hint should have been Gothic Sabatons.

[Quetzacoatl]

I happen to take DRK very seriously, mainly because its such a god awful job compared to others, so you absolutely cannot half ass it. So whats the point of playing it if you arent playing to be the absolute very best?

Gradd nailed it right on the head here- we're under the influence that DRK is a very poor job on its own, so we DRKs end up creating an absolutist mentality that we have to go after Empyreans, Relics, and the highest-quality gear possible to make up for the fact that we can't even be on par with average DD jobs. Unfortunately, it's all true. Our mechanics hinder our ability to be useful among the community- "If you're not a DRK with the absolute best stuff, then you can kindly f%#@ off."

It's even easier when you lose faith in your job when you get beaten out by a WAR who hasn't even put the time or effort into his gear (think Perle and a mix of pre-abyssea gear) and can pull out better numbers than a DRK who has worked all his life to make his job become worthwhile. Even SAMs and DRGs can topple DRK for what it is: A Damage Dealer. What should be happening is, a highly dedicated WAR of the same quality of those DRKs I've described should be the ones we DRKs should humbly accept defeat to.

Apocalypse? A THF or NIN can hit harder and faster compared to what the aftermath can offer us now. Quietus? LOL CRITICAL-HIT WEAPON SKILLS. Ragnarok? Close, but it's hard to tell its standing with how underused Great Swords are. The only weapon really worth it is Caladbolg, because Torcleaver really reflects what we desire so much- to be on par with other DDs. Now, I'm not saying a DRK should be better than a WAR...but the job needs some desperate help at this time of the game to make all the growing DRKs like myself be satisfied knowing our job isn't an endless struggle to compete in the DD department, and all the Empyrean and relic holders can make more bloodshed than before.

If I want to play WAR, I'd rather play WAR, simple as that. But don't tell us that because our melee capability is hindered so much that we should play another job instead. Yes, the fact that we also have black magical capabilities doesn't mean all of our spells are useful. But the spells we use often (Stun, Absorb-TP, Drain, Drain II, Aspir, Aspir II, Dread Spikes) are all we really need currently, but we would humbly accept worthwhile upgrades to our magical ability as long as it helps our melee output in the meantime.

I tried not to turn this into another "DRK is low tier wah wah" post, but I felt compelled to analyze what Gradd said here.

[Rezeak]

Broke 8k /THF

http://www.kizunas.net/forums/userpix/963_8ktorcleaver.png

RR VV and Gclaw sneak attacked :)

[Quetzacoatl]

Broke 8k /THF

http://www.kizunas.net/forums/userpix/963_8ktorcleaver.png

RR VV and Gclaw sneak attacked :)
Gear setup? But why /THF? Usually /SAM tops out for DD.

[Rezeak]

I certainly wouldn't /THF for exp and all but we we're just killing NMs and usally i have to wait until ls gets a stagger or w/e so i'm waiting on the side lines or just meleeing until that happens so i just sub thf to do spike dmg when we go to zerg it.

Honestly if u could line up SA on /THF every time i'd say it would beat /SAM in a exp burn but honestly ur not gonna see it happen so yea /SAM is what i'd use if i ever needed exp or merits outside that i just go by the situation.

(not to mention /THF gives ya cyclone and energy drain)

as for gear it's the WoE weapon AF+2 and Twilight helm and lol chaos+1 body(only vit body i have) nothing really that speical it's the atmas that push the numbers that high anyway.

[Seoha]

Because he seems sensible. You get common knowledge mixed up (two second WS delay, for example) and Gradd just wants to come in here and scream "GIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMP!!" at anyone not swinging an Empyrean.

I mean no offense Raelia, but nowadays with Abyssea if you *really want* to be a worthy DRK you *need* an empyrean (or that OAT scythe I suppose... seen good numbers with it).

DRK's with an empyrean still can't keep up with damage against decked out DD's such as WARs, MNKs, etc. If with an empyrean you can't keep up with damage, that twilight scythe ain't gonna save you really.

In fact, a dark knight with an empyrean says awfully much about the player in itself. For me... a DRK with an empyrean is a DRK that is really trying. And in essence, that already says a lot.
It's not the case for everyone out there, I know. But still...

[Rezeak]

Well i disagree empyreans mean very little in my opinion there are things far far more important than these.

While i'm not shooting the DRKs down that have these weapons because by all mean empyreans are definitely a requirement of being the perfect or top tier DRK but to be a good DRK u don't need empyrean.

Imo to be a good DRK.

You need to know how to play DRK (durrr but pple not knowing about Store tp or builds definly go into the avg DRK cat.)
Having access to 3 good atmas (cause face it without this ur massivly behide)
All !! Triggers possible
At least Twilight Scythe (not because of death proc while nice it's the none emeantal dmg type which makes this worth it)
AF+1/2 5/5
All basic subs lvled (SAM NIN THF maybe WAR and MNK)

Either way with all of the above DRK can perform really well in abyssea events while ur dmg may be lacking "in comparison" to other jobs with crit WS it definitly isn't lacking if you play the job right DRK can do more than enough DMG to be viable focusing more on you Melee dmg than ur WS dmg.

Ofc after this you'd want at least a WoE weapon or if ya want to go all out an empyrean weapon.

As for me i have af+2 5/5 WoE Greatsword, Twilight scythe, OAT Scythe and Def down Scythe (all good atmas) and as far as i'm concerned my DRK is done until next update while my ls has offered to help me with an empyrean it just doesn't bring enough of an improvement vs the WoE weapon because atm i'm really using OAT scythe the most because 5 Hit + OAT scythe /SAM = fastest way to get a message for !! then i just switch to WoE after i've done my WS to kill the mob.

[vedder]

scored ares body today w00t, and 30/50 on cara gems

been playing with rr/apoc/AO lately gotta say i like it for straight dding

when im proc whore i usually /nin SeaD/vv/apoc

is there a "definitve" set for atmas say for example expn with caladbolg?
cant figure out what id use just yet, so many combos being tossed around

[Rezeak]

I'd say VV and GClaw then RR (not for torcleaver but for you melee dd)

[Jar]

RR Apoc and a STP atma(Plaugebringer, Scorpion queen, or Dune) for 6hit is the best

[Rezeak]

Atma of the Omnipotent i think would be better than stp atma cause of the 10% haste if we're talking about constant melee (which is the only time i'd see an stp atma beating VV)

With 25% haste from gear and 15% magic haste ur looking at 20% increase in melee and WS rate (and 40% increase in last resort)

Even without magic haste u'd be getting 15% increase in WS and DoT which is alot better than the 20% increase in just WS dmg u'd get from a 6 hit.

Btw i didn't count hasso :P

Though for me i can have the best of both since i don't need atmas to make the WoE version 6 hit :)

[Gradd]

Atma of the Omnipotent i think would be better than stp atma cause of the 10% haste if we're talking about constant melee (which is the only time i'd see an stp atma beating VV)

Atma haste is gear haste, so in the end its worthless x:

[Rezeak]

well that sucks >< as i'm guessing atma store tp ignores gear cap i'm guessing since i heard sams talking about 4 hits or w/e?

[Jar]

well that sucks >< as i'm guessing atma store tp ignores gear cap i'm guessing since i heard sams talking about 4 hits or w/e?

Sm can get 4 hit w/o STP atma with the GK from that cerb in Altep lol

but yes from what ive seen STP isnt capping even with 3 STP atmas on sam

[Rezeak]

u need 92 store tp to get a 4 hit on that GK

(base 13.0tp for 4 hit u need 25 tp 25/13 = 1.923) so u need 92 stp (well 93) and cap is 50/51 in gear/sub.

[Jar]

u need 92 store tp to get a 4 hit on that GK

(base 13.0tp for 4 hit u need 25 tp 25/13 = 1.923) so u need 92 stp (well 93) and cap is 50/51 in gear/sub.

the "cap" is 65 gear 35 Job trait but you dont even need that to 4 hit a 480 delay GK

need 38 STP in gear including the +6 on the GK itself.. maxed STP merits and any +20 STP atma

hell with the +2 body hat and legs you can get the +58 STP needed without a STP atma at all..

[Rezeak]

Since i don't play SAM i just read what wiki said but i didn't know u could get that high.

thats kinda crazy

[Mortechai]

This post was supposed to be about data regarding Torcleaver and yet its devolved into a slug fest about how DRK should be played as a DD versus other DD jobs. Silliness if you ask me. Please try and stick to the topic in the OP. If you have a discussion regarding something off-topic(see 80% of the posts in this topic), please take it to a new topic or a more relevant one. Thank you!~

P.S. I appreciate all the info regarding Torcleaver so far, keep it up! The more information we share about these new(Relatively new) weapons and weapon skills, the more we can maximise their effectiveness inside and outside of Abyssea.

[Afrohatch]

It's not too hard to make a decent VIT setup for TC. In some slots though, there aren't any good VIT peices for DRK, so I stack STR or attack in them, and it works pretty well. It's a very consistent WS outside of abyssea, I regularly break 3k+ on NMs such as Tiamat, and other mobs that used to be the benchmark for damage before abyssea lol.

I'm too lazy to dig out the dmg SS's from my folders, but I can assure you, if you play DRK correctly, you will 100% not be dissapointed with Caladbolg.

[vedder]

hey finally got lv80 version of cala done up an was looking for confirmation on ws gorget/belt (snow?) if ws belt/gorget outperforms for their slots vs other items (bale neck etc) what is best for hand slot and what combo of earrings/rings you would use

i m not looking at dropping xhit builds or the like atm with new update an possibly new gears coming out (meaning dont suggest doing znm/nyzul floors for askar/aurum just cause theyre a time sink inmo) and i have ares body and working on the damn twilight head <which i swear to god hates me> just the mentioned slots really, o btw pld +2 hands are like wow for this ws <_< kinda makes me sad.....

[Jar]

hey finally got lv80 version of cala done up an was looking for confirmation on ws gorget/belt (snow?) if ws belt/gorget outperforms for their slots vs other items (bale neck etc) what is best for hand slot and what combo of earrings/rings you would use

i m not looking at dropping xhit builds or the like atm with new update an possibly new gears coming out (meaning dont suggest doing znm/nyzul floors for askar/aurum just cause theyre a time sink inmo) and i have ares body and working on the damn twilight head <which i swear to god hates me> just the mentioned slots really, o btw pld +2 hands are like wow for this ws <_< kinda makes me sad.....

Its snow gorget/belt

for hand slot Heafoc or BAle +2 hands are what i see alot of ppl use but there are augmented glvoes in Attowha that have ATT +6 VIT +5 (Vera mufflers)

[vedder]

thx jar guess ill have to cleave chigoes til i see them, found ones with vit+2 but no attack so npcd em

edited in: would the rse gloves for galka from the fairy (i think fairy) (7vit) be worth using if your a galka?

[Afrohatch]

I'm not the super mathy type, but I'm pretty sure Heafoc mitts will still trump VIT+5/Attk+6, it will at least be very close

[Gradd]

Heafoc only wins outside of abyssea, inside due to FSTR being capped the VIT+5/Attack +6 mufflers are actually pretty nice for Torcleaver.

[JovialRat]

hello, gonna be starting on getting this weapon, any hints / helpers on how to get the items?
how do ppl get their emp. weapons so fast? is there a secret?

[Dart]

Heafoc only wins outside of abyssea, inside due to FSTR being capped the VIT+5/Attack +6 mufflers are actually pretty nice for Torcleaver.

this is true but from a practical standpoint. I'm not sure that I can justify such a huge timesink for such small increase. (I spent an entire day there doing gold boxies and did not see a single usable muffler). I'll just stick to heafoc unless I get lucky.

[vedder]

being the TE guy (or team) for when my ls does events there (attowha-a) i generally get to see alot of them but still none usable, mind you ls still has 3 or so emps from itza an ulhu to build and i still might just complete redemption so i have it should SE ever fix it (though i do love the style of caladbolg more) so heres to hoping, even told my lsmates to keep eyes peeled for me

[Dart]

calad is so much better that its just silly. 21 lanterns to go mine! i can't wait ><!

On a sad side note. I scored a 2500+ crit hit on cara yesterday. My apoc weeps -_- (bloody ukon)

[Jar]

being the TE guy (or team) for when my ls does events there (attowha-a) i generally get to see alot of them but still none usable, mind you ls still has 3 or so emps from itza an ulhu to build and i still might just complete redemption so i have it should SE ever fix it (though i do love the style of caladbolg more) so heres to hoping, even told my lsmates to keep eyes peeled for me

ive seen redemption in action and you'll /wrist after you go against a caldbolg

[Dart]

ive seen redemption in action and you'll /wrist after you go against a caldbolg

second this. if you do buds just get a vereth. Don't waste them on redemption.

[vedder]

lol im 18/50 on lanterns atm dont worry, cala will be my baby, just figure i might as well upgrade redemption too since i already have ultimatum just sitting in my mog house, who knows what lv91-99 will bring, an though time consumiing i dont wanna do an emp for another job atm, lvln nin now though so who knows maybe ill do a kannagi just to help myself farm things i cant on drk/mnk w/ whm mule

[Dart]

being a fellow duo'er when my friends are all asleep/off game I've gotten more mileage out of my thf/nin + whm than ninja (i'll never do twaster FUCK GLAVOID NEVER AGAIN), sure I go nin/war for red procs but then I change to thf (my thf is pretty good, hybrid haste/eva build and the mobs can't touch me). I've always thought that kannagi while good is overrated, but honestly more power too ya if you can deal with bri ki's (I've helped with 2 mates kannagi's and outside tunga i hate bri ki's the most)

[vedder]

yea its just a thought atm really, ls doing 4 kannagi an 3 almaces atm so,uh, yea, might say ffff that, NOMOSOBEK>< lol i really dono what else id enjoy leveling tbh <_< ninja was just what came to mind since it was sittin at 57 for log time<_< war is 75 but im wary of falling into the war >drk ls wanting thing that you fell into plus my ls has few wars an thfs an nins all main'd.

mebe i do thf after iono lol

[Dart]

lets not forget that its a game play w/e you like the most. pretty much all jobs are useful (outside drk!)

[vedder]

the way staggers are set up in new zones looks like every job has a proc purpose now, gonna just let things get learned before i dive into anything

[Dart]

really wish i had a friggin pitchfork UGH

[vedder]

yea no doubt, i was thinking of doing the event for gkt here but then pretty much figured i usually have a friend rolling with me for seal/ki hunts so i generally handle majority of procs with drk + whm they do katana/gkt an if its polearm we just count our losses an go again lol

[Dart]

pitchfork, some type of greatsword lvl 1 all jobs, and a scythe lvl 1 all jobs and i'd have all procs between nin + my mule! /lesigh oh well

[Usukane]

10 more lanterns to go and I'll get this topic back on track by posting actual samples.

[Jar]

10 more lanterns to go and I'll get this topic back on track by posting actual samples.

Most of us have the weapon if you want samples just ask i just post in this topic because its the cool kids topic

[Dart]

except jar, he's that half crazy friend in the group. The rest of us can't decide if he's going to join in the fun or go jason voorhees on our asses. ^_~

[Usukane]

Post away. I haven't seen very much information from what this thread is supposed to be about.

[Dart]

just doesn't seem right. someone named usukane asking about drk stuff.

[Jar]

well we swing out swordy thing and it make boom boom for about 2.5K :D

[Dart]

gear for str outside abyssea and gear for the vit mod/attack inside abyssea. Pretty standard stuff tbh.

[Usukane]

You don't say! Gee. =/ Can't believe I get such crap answers.

[Jar]

You don't say! Gee. =/ Can't believe I get such crap answers.

Try asking for specifics bro

besides everything you need to know you can learn on the wiki about its damage.... not like its hard to ballpark dmg after seeing all the numbers..

[vedder]

its not an easy weapon skill to gear for since u really need attack (cap ur attack vs mob def drk can do this but its not lulzeasy) need str (fstr which will require tinkering from mob to mob) and vit the actual wsc, trying to mush vit into a gearset for dmg over str(once capped) and maintain proper hitbuild/rebuild is the tricky part, dart summed it up pretty good though. few pieces of note are twilight head/ares body/snowbelt/snowgorget/bale+2legs/atheling/bale earring(brutal?)/moonshade<TP BONUS>/bibiki seashell(bombcore/bomblet)

i left out feet rings an hands cus im still really up in the air about those slots yet
hands: ares,bale+2,heafoc,lolperle,augmented-versa( <_< hate these atm not dropping) are a few choices im sure eveyone has a preference
feet:bale+2, ares, jingang(sp?), ryugo, onyx?
rings: lotsa choices between vit str attack

requires mucho tinkering an also i dont quite have torcleaver yet, im 36/50 atm on ciren but my ls rocks and its gonna be tonites event! w00t

[Dart]

cap fstr/attack/ then worry about vit mod.

[Fyreus]

Necro bump.

I haven't been able to understand how much of a str/att boost that gorgets give during WS (my rng has my light gorgets atm) so would anyone be able to compare warwolf/bale neck to light gorget/belt or point me in the correct direction? adding 0.1 to 1.0 of an ftp for 1.1 doesn't really tell me much atm.

[Jar]

Necro bump.

I haven't been able to understand how much of a str/att boost that gorgets give during WS (my rng has my light gorgets atm) so would anyone be able to compare warwolf/bale neck to light gorget/belt or point me in the correct direction? adding 0.1 to 1.0 of an ftp for 1.1 doesn't really tell me much atm.

learn what fTP is than ..

Gorgets add 0.1 fTP to the FIRST hit of every weaponskill as well ass +10 acc for all hits.
they add NO STR OR ATT
they are unrivaled for single hit weaponskills because fTP is the base damage of your weaponskill
for multi hit 4~ for the most part there are better pieces.

for torcleaver gorget/belt is the best foreverandeveranever (well maybe not with the +9 VIT neck but meh that has too be close anyway lol..)

[Dart]

honestly when i /sam anymore and go batshit crazy with torcleaver, there are only two jobs that out hate me. ukon war and vereth mnk. The raw total dmg is that significant (a really skilled/spellcast using drg is about even)

thought i am tempted to try /thf but i just know that i'm going to pull massive hate and just be a sponge, at least with /sam I have some defensive capabilities -_-

[Dart]

as for the gorget issue. Generally if you use them universally for your ws sets you will not be gimp at all. They are very solid and as jar mentioned, you need very specific situations for them to be tied with or out done period. The only job that I consider not using them on is mnk since I have victory smite now.

[Fyreus]

Maybe i should have reworded before i left the post. I know what fTP is but trying to find a damage comparison that can be broken down into str/att/acc was what i was inquiring about. Basically 14str/5vit/8att/8acc vs what i assume is 20 WSacc and [???]'s str/att equivalency.

I have all the information except for things aren't easily understood like trying to find a lv100 beetle's vit. It looks like 92+92+56+46 and if i were to take that as mob vit when finding fSTR then it couldn't look right compared to my drk's current 92+70str.

[Jar]

Maybe i should have reworded before i left the post. I know what fTP is but trying to find a damage comparison that can be broken down into str/att/acc was what i was inquiring about. Basically 14str/5vit/8att/8acc vs what i assume is 20 WSacc and [???]'s str/att equivalency.

I have all the information except for things aren't easily understood like trying to find a lv100 beetle's vit. It looks like 92+92+56+46 and if i were to take that as mob vit when finding fSTR then it couldn't look right compared to my drk's current 92+70str.

yeah not all math is addition there is no "Always true" value that is a str/vit/att equivalent to the fTP value.

if this is about torcleaver than the gorget wins hands down
if the weaponskill hits more than one time the STR helps on each hit while the gorget only helps the first.

Gorgets add base damage and you dont seem to know how big that is but because its Multiplied by the other values in the weaponskill damage formula. (Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF) it is a major thing.

[Rezeak]

they are unrivaled for single hit weaponskills because fTP is the base damage of your weaponskill
for multi hit 4~ for the most part there are better pieces.


Hmmm... it basically adds the same amount of DMG when in reguard of multihit.

It adds 0.1ftp to the first hit.
So it adds 0.1 X Mod X pdif(cratio or w/e ya use for atkvdef)
Makes no odds if the weapon does more hits.

For example guillotine vs torcleaver increase
Torcleaver is easy 0.1+4.75 = 4.85 a 2.1% increase in DMG
For guillotine is 1 hit at 0.85 then 3 at 1.0 so overall it's (0.85+1.0+1.0+1.0) X Mod X pdif
so u can consider the ftp of Guillotine as 3.85 and +0.1 to that is a 2.5% increase

And yes there Da and the acc bonus to consider but just saying it's a single hit as your reason isn't really justified.

Imo it comes alot more to do with the mod and base dmg of the the weapon.

For example to add 2% to Torcleaver with 110 DMG and 100 vit overall u'd need
110 + 0.6(100) = 170*1.02 = 173 base DMG
3/0.6 = 5 VIT

Which prolly mean Apathy collar (9VIT) will beat the gorget unless i missed something and alot of numbers were estimates either way w/e not that fussed

And Ganesha's Mala prolly is the best overall since it has 4 VIT and 2% Quad attack
2% quad attack = 2% chance to add 3.00 ftp to a weapon (basically)
2% * 3.00 = 0.06 (so just under what gorget adds but the 4 VIT prolly makes up for it)

[Jar]

Hmmm... it basically adds the same amount of DMG when in reguard of multihit.

It adds 0.1ftp to the first hit.
So it adds 0.1 X Mod X pdif(cratio or w/e ya use for atkvdef)
Makes no odds if the weapon does more hits.

For example guillotine vs torcleaver increase
Torcleaver is easy 0.1+4.75 = 4.85 a 2.1% increase in DMG
For guillotine is 1 hit at 0.85 then 3 at 1.0 so overall it's (0.85+1.0+1.0+1.0) X Mod X pdif
so u can consider the ftp of Guillotine as 3.85 and +0.1 to that is a 2.5% increase

And yes there Da and the acc bonus to consider but just saying it's a single hit as your reason isn't really justified.

Imo it comes alot more to do with the mod and base dmg of the the weapon.

For example to add 2% to Torcleaver with 110 DMG and 100 vit overall u'd need
110 + 0.6(100) = 170*1.02 = 173 base DMG
3/0.6 = 5 VIT

Which prolly mean Apathy collar (9VIT) will beat the gorget unless i missed something and alot of numbers were estimates either way w/e not that fussed

And Ganesha's Mala prolly is the best overall since it has 4 VIT and 2% Quad attack
2% quad attack = 2% chance to add 3.00 ftp to a weapon (basically)
2% * 3.00 = 0.06 (so just under what gorget adds but the 4 VIT prolly makes up for it)

that was more to name that for most multi hits there is a known piece (like bale choker for guil) that is better

[Fyreus]

I dunno why i was putting fTP inside the middle of the formula... that's what messed me up there. Dunno how i wrote it down wrong twice lol. The other problem that i had was looking at the vit loss with some neck/belt swaps since i couldn't exactly tell how close/over fSTR i was compared to avarage mobs and vs the stronger types of mobs around.

[vedder]

k been awhile since posted back here but dundundundun 90 caladbolg finally!

looking to perfect gear for ws builds (all the below are assuming LR up an inside abyssea for criticism sake as i know i could use tweaking in there); averaging about 2.3-2.6k with rcb an Lr up

cala90/pole/xx/bombcore
twilight/snow/bale/brutal
ares/heafoc/spiral/raja
athel/snow/bale+2/bale+2

any an all suggestions/critic'ing etc will be happily appreciated an thx for any responses
edited in: avg attack with this is probably around 1150 i think (rr/apoc/a&o atma)