Ninjutsu Status Curing Spell

[GailC]

Here's an idea I had for a Ninjutsu spell that would allow Ninjas to cure protect themselves (and only themselves) of from certain negative status effects using Far Eastern acupuncture (bloodletting) techniques:

Kyukaku: Ichi (Nin lvl 65, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu (Goldsmithing), removes one status ailment (can remove Blindness, Poison, Plague, Virus, Paralysis, Max MP down, Max HP down, Amnesia, Stat-down effects or black magic spells like Burn, Shock and Drown, has a slight chance of removing Doom effect). Grants a Regen effect which enhances in potency and duration with every Status ailment cured through Kyukaku (up to 3 times).

Kyukaku: Ichi (Nin lvl 65, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu (Goldsmithing), drains 45 HP from the Ninja upon casting (cannot be cast if this would bring the Ninja below 1 HP). Automatically Resists the next status ailment that affects the Ninja. (Kyukaku can resist Blindness, Poison, Plague, Virus, Paralysis, Max MP down, Max HP down, Stat-down effects or black magic spells like Bio, Burn, Shock and Drown, the Resistance effect is still used up if a different status, like Slow or Petrify affects the ninja, but Kyukaku doesn't block these). Adds a Regen Effect (3hp/tick, lasts 60 seconds).

Kyukaku: Ni (Nin lvl 93, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu, cures two status ailments (same as Ichi version). Grants a Regen effect (larger HP/tick return, stacks with Ichi version, enhances in potency and duration as per Ichi version).

Kyukaku: Ni (Nin lvl 93, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu, drains 80 HP upon casting (cannot be cast if it would lower HP to less than 1). Automatically Resists the next two status ailments that affect the Ninja. (Can resist the same effects as Ichi version). Adds a Regen effect (8hp/tick, lasts 60 seconds).

[Shadowsong]

I liek the idea of expanding the role of Ninjutsu, as it is something that can definately be added to, but the description of the abilities you created seem extreamly overpowered. This would even more push a job like PLD out of the tanking picture.
Perhaps a NIN that just gave a low potency regen or regain until struck by an enemy, or a very slight crit hit or max HP+.

[Tamoa]

Sub dnc, problem solved.

Edit: apart from the amnesia, but then again, there is no spell to remove amnesia either. Yet.

[GailC]

the description of the abilities you created seem extreamly overpowered. This would even more push a job like PLD out of the tanking picture.

Well, I'm not out to do anything like that, I'm more interpreting the SE vision of "turning aside enemy attacks" in an unconventional way. It still leaves the Ninja susceptible to status effects like Sleep, Petrify, Slow and Silence, all of which would require outside healing. Perhaps getting rid of the ability to remove Doom and Amnesia for starters to tone down the power a bit would be a good idea.

In real life, Kyukaku is a method of therapeutic bloodletting; perhaps instead of a flat out regen ability, it could drain some HP in order to cure the status ailments, which then regens back plus a little over the top (sort of like casting Sacrifice on yourself in FFXIV)? Perhaps giving it a chance of failing to remove the status ailment if your Ninjutsu skill isn't high enough compared to the attacker's magic accuracy? I'm not looking so much to make Ninja invulnerable, just to, as you said, expand the role of Ninjutsu.


Sub dnc, problem solved.

That's actually why I was figuring this wouldn't be so overpowered, since you can already sub dancer and do this with more status ailments than I listed. With Kyukaku, a ninja wouldn't have to sub dancer or whitemage to cure some status ailments, but they would lose the benefits of direct self and other-targeted curing, haste, and various buffs/debuffs from either subjob. They would still have a chance of being interrupted, which won't happen on Dancer.

[Shiyo]

NIN does not need a self erase, it does not help the job perform better in any group oriented situation.

[GailC]

NIN does not need a self erase, it does not help the job perform better in any group oriented situation.

Ninja needs self erase about as much as Redmage needs a self targeted double attack spell, which helps Redmage perform in group situations where dedicated melees are present just about as much as my suggestion would help Ninjas in groups where dedicated healers are standing by ;)

Although I should say that I disagree with you on that point: I think there are certainly group situations in which a spell like Kyukaku would be quite useful to ninjas, just as there are group situations in which Temper will be useful for a redmage... these situations are simply not conventional, where Ninja and Redmage have a balanced party or an alliance at their side.

I'm not really interested in enhancing aspects of the job where Ninja already excels, though, I'm interested in broadening it's capabilities while maintaining the developer's vision and thematic concept for the job. Following your rational, SE never should have given Ninjas a native, self targeted Sneak spell because it doesn't add to Ninja's group-oriented value. Nor should Redmage have received Phalanx, especially years before Paladin and 44 levels earlier to boot.

I find it interesting that in this thread I've been told that the ability is (1) overpowered and would break the job, (2) redundant, since you can sub Dancer and get a status curing ability that is self and other targeted and can't be interrupted, and (3) pointless because it doesn't enhance the job sufficiently within it's current role.

I don't mind the criticism, and I'm glad you guys responded: I find it helpful in fleshing the idea out. But all three responses I've gotten so far are contradictory, leaving me at something of a loss in terms of where to go with the idea, including scrapping it. It can't be overpowered, redundant, and useless at the same time...

...can it? o_O;

[Mirage]

This is unnecessary. As said earlier, sub dnc. If you solo, you would probably be subbing that already, and if you're in a group, there's usually somebody with either healing waltz or erase around. If not, you should rethink your party setup.

[GailC]

This is unnecessary. As said earlier, sub dnc. If you solo, you would probably be subbing that already, and if you're in a group, there's usually somebody with either healing waltz or erase around.

The necessity of an ability/spell/trait is not the sole determination in whether or not a job gets it. I understand the criticism, it's simply not a valid one, and I've already addressed this.

Was Temper a necessary addition to Redmage? Would it not be redundant in a party with a War? Could they not sub /War to receive that trait?

Was it really necessary to give Thief the ability to Intimidate? Couldn't they sub /Bst and do that already? Or party with a Beastmaster or Bluemage and let them intimidate the mob?

By your estimation, Thief and Dancer should never have been given Dual Wield, nor should Paladin have been given Phalanx. Dancer receiving Animated Flourish was unnecessary as well (and what's with Saber Dance? Couldn't they just sub Warrior?). Why did Ninja receive Monomi when they could sub Dancer and get both Sneak and Invisible at the same time? Or sub /whm and get Sneak that way?

I could do this all day, but the point is that SE routinely gives jobs abilities, spells and traits that duplicate those already attainable through the subjob system, so the "Unnecessary" or "Redundant" argument doesn't hold water.

[Mirage]

Yeah, you're right. I changed my mind, every job should get erase. Maybe dispel too.

[Vortex]

Oh for crying out loud...NIN is NOT a mage/support job, it does not need this, if you want erase that badly, sub dnc, this a stupid idea. almost as bad as people asking for a "cure ninjitsu" i'm sorry to be blunt, but let's be serious here. You're asking nin to be way over powerd, hell let's give them a raise ninjitsu while we at it.

[GailC]

Yeah, you're right. I changed my mind, every job should get erase. Maybe dispel too.

No need to go coasting down a slippery slope here. I respect your opinion and value your feedback, I just don't agree with you on this point. I'm not suggesting every job should get every ability, only that saying "giving this to X is bad because Y already has this" isn't a realistic argument anymore given the current state of jobs in the game, with abilities being cross-pollinated across many different jobs.


Oh for crying out loud...NIN is NOT a mage/support job, it does not need this, if you want erase that badly, sub dnc, this a stupid idea. almost as bad as people asking for a "cure ninjitsu" i'm sorry to be blunt, but let's be serious here. You're asking nin to be way over powerd, hell let's give them a raise ninjitsu while we at it.

Ninja is very much a caster/debuffer in addition to being a melee DD. It has Slow, Paralyze, Blind, Poison and Elemental Debuffs. It has Blink, Invisible, Sneak, and now higher level spells such as Attack Down. Being a debuffer means that Ninja can act in a support role. The fact that the player community finds more use in Ninja as a tank/damage dealer doesn't mean Ninjas can't operate as debuffers/nukers.

I understand that it may seem like this would make Ninja overpowered, but as others have pointed out, it's nothing Ninja can't do right now with /Dnc. Not only that, but they can cure other people as well using /Dnc, and there are a lot more benefits to the sub than just Healing Waltz. A Nin/War with Kyukaku would lose all of the other benefits of /Dnc, but would have a bit more self sufficiency in low-man situations. For standard party situations, this would hardly change the game at all.

Based on some suggestions I've received here and at other forums, i'm going to amend the original post to reflect the feedback I've gotten. I'll leave the original in strike-through. The major change is that instead of curing status ailments, it will automatically resist certain status effects, sort of like Utsusuemi preemptively protects against melee attacks.