Screwed again: New spells for everyone but... [Archive]

AldielQuetz

08-28-2011, 07:18 AM

Show your support with a LIKE my fellow Paladins! Let's see some suggestions reposted if necessary from the improvements page. I know I hate it when someone complains and has no solutions to share.

In the improvements page I suggested a spell called Awe to compliment Flash, since we are the Magical Knights of this Realm. Maybe Regenga Lv 65, Regenga II Lv 80 and Regenga III Lv 95. See! There, now we get 3 new spells! Or a spell that's the single target form of the new WHM spell for MDB? Wouldn't anything be better than knothing fellow Knights of Vanadiel?!

So rate it up, post your suggestions and let's get recognized so we aren't all QQ again like after the last fail-update!

Economizer

08-28-2011, 07:32 AM

If I had to make a bet about the new spells, I'd bet that Paladin will get Holy II. And you guys will probably be better at using it to deal damage then a White Mage.

I'd also like to see Paladin get Repose, since Dark Knights get Sleep/SleepII/Break, and they get Stun at the same level PLD gets Flash.

Aside from that, a Divine based Migawari type spell would probably fit Paladin well.

AldielQuetz

08-28-2011, 08:25 AM

I like where you are going. How about comparable spells, like getting Dia and Dia II, since DRK gets Bio and Bio II? Or add in Diaga since DRK gets Poisonaga? Repose to counter Spells like sleep, sleep II, bind, and break? And since DRK is now getting Tier 3 elemental magic, how about we get Banish III, perhaps even Banishga and Banishga II? How about a line of spells to match Absorbs, like Criple-MND,DEX,STR, etc that just reduces the monsters stats but doesn't buff the PLD, make it so Absorbs and Crips don't stack? Not to mention Holy II, and long overdue Raise II and III? Or maybe an AoE Reraise/Raise called Ressurection? I know SE can give us something more than 1 Job Ability over the last 2 level increases, right Pallys?

Economizer

08-28-2011, 08:47 AM

Forgive me, but I'm not sure if you are serious or not.

I doubt Paladin would get Dia, since it is more of a Red Mage spell that White Mage happens to get since there is a bit of overlap. Furthermore, Paladin does not get Enfeebling Magic skill in the first place, rendering the idea even more out of place. I would place spells that cripple the enemy in the same category. Paladin isn't really an enfeebler outside of enfeebling Divine Magic.

I expect Paladin to get Banish III around the same time White Mage gets Banish IV, since White Mage gets better access to these spells, but only time will tell on this one. Since -aga spells are purely the domain of Black Mage and White Mage outside some AOE enfeeble spells, I don't think Paladin will ever get either of those.

Paladin will not get Reraise ever. Raise II is likely however, considering that Red Mage and Scholar both got another tier in the update notes.

AldielQuetz

08-28-2011, 08:59 AM

I am just putting ideas out there, Dia was originally a Divine spell, so they could make something else that works off Divine, and the cripple spells could be Divine based as well and be a debuff inflicted when the enemy gets blocked. Honestly, I was just putting down the categories and types of spells that DRK received and PLD did not so that people would have more things to think about. The word of the DECADE is BALANCE, so that's what I am after here, BALANCE.

Morwy

08-28-2011, 06:47 PM

Divine based Migawari at first sight seems an interresting idea, i'd like to see it. Flash II or anything on the same line of thoughts is fine too.
Now for the rest, considering our somewhat limited manapool, i'd rather heal myself and my party than cast Holy II which will prolly costs large amounts of mana and do limited damages. (unless you MB ! ^^;)

Economizer

08-29-2011, 02:47 AM

I've seen screenshots of PLD using Divine Emblem and getting 7k Holy. I imagine Holy II would just add insult to this injury... maybe a party of Paladins to manaburn NMs.

Of course, most of the time, it probably won't be used, but who would say no to another Holy?

gryyphyn

08-30-2011, 06:41 PM

Forgive me, but I'm not sure if you are serious or not.
I expect Paladin to get Banish III around the same time White Mage gets Banish IV, since White Mage gets better access to these spells, but only time will tell on this one. Since -aga spells are purely the domain of Black Mage and White Mage outside some AOE enfeeble spells, I don't think Paladin will ever get either of those.

Paladin will not get Reraise ever. Raise II is likely however, considering that Red Mage and Scholar both got another tier in the update notes.

None of those are in the new spell list on the test server for Pld. I think getting at least the non -ga Abyssea proc spells would be a good idea but I agree that Pld shouldn't get DOT or enfeeb spells. At least something like an erase would be nice though. Not going /dnc leaves me boned if I get bio or dia or etc...

Caketime

08-30-2011, 10:18 PM

Cursed

08-31-2011, 02:13 AM

DE was boosted last month and then nerfed. 7K holy before the nerf is nothing special.
You could also A.edge 50-70 mobs for 9-11k with divine emblem up. that too has been nerfed.
if you insist on a screenshot i could check if I took any. But this isn't regarded as unknown info. I think there was a thread about it on either BG or FFXIAH.

But post nerf, I call bullsh!t on anyone saying they did a 7k holy.

Caketime

08-31-2011, 02:26 AM

I don't read BG or FFXIAH, and I'm sure there are others who are just like me who would like to see some proof. Condescending makes a great case for you though, keep it up.

Cursed

08-31-2011, 02:28 AM

I'll search. and I don't see how offering to search for it or providing an FYI is Condescending.

Caketime

08-31-2011, 02:35 AM

I did request proof, and you dismissed it initially, implying that I should just take your word for it. Sorry, but I'm not a child, I don't just take things that people say on forums as gospel without something to back it up.

Cursed

08-31-2011, 02:45 AM

One of my first tests. Wasn't using any MAB atmas. The atmas used here are VV/Sea Daughter/RR.
The best Atma combination, I would learn, was Hell's Guard, Ultimate, Cosmos.(more than doubles AE dmg)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/abeox/AEwithoutMABAtmas2.jpg

Caketime

08-31-2011, 03:07 AM

This makes me wonder if it was actually a nerf and not a mistake that cost a young programer his job. Either way, it's very interesting.

Zagen

08-31-2011, 03:36 AM

Martel

08-31-2011, 04:59 AM

About that 7k holy... http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/58921

The DE nerf shouldn't have affected this at all. All the fix did was make DE stop working on Aeolian edge.

BTW, as noted in the screenshot, this is hardly normal dmg. I was stacking ever possible advantage. Atma, day/obi, mab/divine/mnd gear, and holy circle on an undead mob.

Considering the ten minute timer, it's pretty worthless. Just damn fun.

As for post nerf dmg.. well it's lightsday now I'll go pull out some gear and see what things look like now.

Cursed

08-31-2011, 05:31 AM

Do you mean Gales?
yes. thanks for that. hell's guard/ultimate/cosmos is what i use for cataclysm spam i think, that or beyond.

Economizer

08-31-2011, 06:15 AM

About that 7k holy... http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/58921

The DE nerf shouldn't have affected this at all. All the fix did was make DE stop working on Aeolian edge.

This and all the rest of what Martel said. I think I may have been confusing, but yeah, I didn't mean to say 7k damage was normal, just the limit.

I certainly hope that 7k can still be reached currently, even if it is rare, since it is a ten minute ability, and you aren't reaching this outside Abyssea, but who knows, it could have been hit with AE spam.

Getting Holy II (I understand it supposedly deals 2x the damage of Holy in its current form) would make reaching high damage spike numbers much more likely.

Martel

08-31-2011, 06:53 AM

Well, I went and checked my old DE test data, then went to DE holy a bunny with no gear to check if DE dmg calcs have changed at all.

Old DE holy
Target:wild rabbit
82 MND,
no gear 918 dmg

New DE holy. same stats/target, 918 dmg.

So DE's dmg calulations haven't changed at all. Getting a 7k holy still isn't easy, since you have to catch it when the dominion bonus to cruor buffs are at their peak. But it's still possible.

Hoping for Holy II soon. Cause that's gonna hit really really hard. lol

As for other spells, I'd love Flash II, Flashga, etc. And a divine based migawari-esque spell would be great. Or even something scherzo-like.

Ophannus

08-31-2011, 02:17 PM

On the bright side, from my tests it seems PLD has Defense Bonus VI at 91. Wooo..

Lordscyon

08-31-2011, 02:19 PM

It be nice for paladin too have Flash II @ least too make everyone happy!
Flash! Flash II!

AldielQuetz

08-31-2011, 05:43 PM

Camate, man.... Please brother... Another defense bonus..... This is such a shame, can we please have something else? Please!

Cursed

08-31-2011, 07:41 PM

Defense Bonus..... ugh.... aye yay yay.
Might as well have given us

-Blank Stare
Job ability
Grants 100% of nothing, lasts 5 minutes, recast 5 minutes.

Zarchery

08-31-2011, 07:55 PM

Doesn't EVERY major update leave a few jobs unchanged? There are 20 jobs; you can't add to each of them every time. Monk gets absolutely nothing this time around, and I'm fine with that.

Morwy

08-31-2011, 10:31 PM

Well
90 Monk > Impetus.
90 Paladin > Sepulcher.
kthx.

I'm fine with Monk not getting anything because they got a lot already. Paladin on the other hand...

AldielQuetz

09-01-2011, 01:20 AM

Take away counter and martial arts and make h2h damage half of what it is, then you would know what we are dealing with here. With a sword and a shield if I dump everything I have on something like Uhledeshi, let's just say, and a MNK does the same from the start, who will end up with hate?

The MNK.

Principle role of MNK is to do damage not hold hate

Principle role of PLD is to hold hate.

Our job does not work as intended.

Help.

AldielQuetz

09-01-2011, 01:29 AM

And @Morwy EXACTLY!

We haven't gotten anything good added since Enlight, and we don't even get a spell this time? Why not?

We need something that gives us a decisive advantage in what our job was intended to do without being sub job-locked to get it. Where is the Warrior part of Paladin? We are warriors that learned white magic through meditation. Did we forget how to provoke through alcoholism?

It's more fun to play a job that works right, and we are all passionate about PLD, we just need to be heard and a 1minute ability with a 5 minute Recast is not helping.

Lower Palisade recast to 3 minutes like you did Bully and give us Flash 2 so we can have 2 short recast hate tool without subbing WAR, that's all we need, please Devs, please Camate, throw us a bone, make the job fun again instead of a lolJob or a chore.

Thank you so much for every second of your time reading these Camate, I know your job can't be easy.

Ahrana

09-01-2011, 02:21 AM

I'm going to say tha the problems with paladin aren't caused by lack of tools, it's by how the enmity system hasn't scaled well past 75. Adding another ability that doesn't address the core problem isn't going to fix the problem.

Septimus

09-01-2011, 05:52 AM

According to the magic dat file, Paladins are going to get Holy II (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Holy_II) at level 99. Data miners found this last year.

AldielQuetz

09-01-2011, 01:57 PM

Let's shoot for Flash II, more utility than a nuke that gets bolstered every 10 minutes.

Urteil

09-01-2011, 08:18 PM

Defense Bonus..... ugh.... aye yay yay.
Might as well have given us

-Blank Stare
Job ability
Grants 100% of nothing, lasts 5 minutes, recast 5 minutes.

--------

Ha.

Septimus

09-02-2011, 05:20 AM

Let's shoot for Flash II, more utility than a nuke that gets bolstered every 10 minutes.

...

But you specifically asked for Holy II.

Not to mention Holy II

You're getting something for which you asked, then you are marginalizing it as if it is not important. I do not understand.

Rearden

09-02-2011, 08:08 AM

The new JA allows gimp PLD to pretend they put work into an Aegis or Ochain for 1m every 5m, what else could you want? Oh right, flash II, with its incredibly high CE values.

AldielQuetz

09-02-2011, 12:47 PM

Flash II this update, a spell at 99 is next update. Not getting a spell is a slap in the face when literally every other job that casts/sings/etc got one.

Balance.

I want Holy II, next update.

Sephiran

09-02-2011, 03:12 PM

I personally believe that Square should address such issues through a support job bonus system. For example PLD/RDM should get access to spells and abilities that would normally be out of reach with the sub-job's level cap (specific examples: PLD/RDM would get a proficiency in Enfeebling, access to better Protect and Shell spells at earlier levels, and a higher tier of Fast Cast than that which is available with /RDM at it's current level. PLD/WHM should get access to Afflatus, Banish III, Raise II, Reraise, Esuna, Cure V, and Magic Defense Bonus III.)

Anyone else jiving with this idea?

AldielQuetz

09-03-2011, 12:36 AM

I also think that the healing grace or whatever it's called that reduces enmity from cures should NOT be gained through sub job.

Theytak

09-03-2011, 02:59 PM

Personally, I want Banish III/Holy II on pld just because pld is supposed to be the king of divine magic in the same way drk is the king of dark magic. Though I won't ever actually be able to cast holy II, being a galka and all...

Sephiran

09-06-2011, 05:08 AM

I also think that the healing grace or whatever it's called that reduces enmity from cures should NOT be gained through sub job.

Actually, Tranquil Heart isn't such a bad thing. If you're going /WHM, chances are you're either soloing, serving as multipurpose use in a party, or cure tanking.

One reason I love /WHM is that it allows you to control enmity, not just gain it. If things get rough, you can loose it if need be, and Tranquil Heart kinda facilitates that by making so that you lose enmity under such circumstances. After all, when are you most likely to spam cure yourself? When you're near death. As a result Tranquil Heart targets your hour of desperation. That, and it only reduces enmity gain while casting, but not from the actual spell's effect, which in turn allows you to resume your job as tank quickly.

AldielQuetz

09-06-2011, 05:37 AM

How about a spell that's like this:

Rebuke. Recast 1minute. Casting time 2 seconds. Your next physical attack will inflict severe light elemental damage.

Have the damage based on VIT and Divine Magic Skill. Maybe a range of 2k to 4k inside abyssea, 1.5k to 3k outside with good gear.

Or

Soul Syphon. Casting time 4 seconds, recast 3 minutes, duration 3 minutes, MP cost 120. Converts 20% of damage dealt into HP and 2% into MP. You could further enhance this spell by increasing it's HP conversion by 1% per merit, as a merit ability.

Job ability

Penitence: 3min recast and 3min duration. Converts 4% of damage taken to TP and reduces recast time on healing, enhancing, and divine magic by 10 seconds. Increases recast time on enfeebling, dark, and elemental magic by 20 seconds. Only useable when wielding a single weapon in the main hand.

Reverent Touch. 3min recast 1min duration. When taking damage, there is a chance to intimidate the attacker. Would work like curse, and would have a diminishing effect on the target's accuracy and attack once afflicted.

Exorcise: recast 30 seconds, duration instant. Reduces targets attack by 5% and increases the user's damage reduction by 5% on it's next attack. Creates high enmity when used.

Job traits

Block TP

Occasionally attacks deflected by a shield generate no TP for TARGET enemy.

Shield Charge

Occasionally attacks deflected by a shield generate a knock back effect on TARGET enemy.

Or Job Ability Shield Rush: recast 3mins duration instant. Knock back target enemy with a chance to interrupt spell casting.

Martel

09-06-2011, 06:16 AM

Job traits

Block TP

Occasionally attacks deflected by a shield generate no TP for TARGET enemy.

Shield Charge

Occasionally attacks deflected by a shield generate a knock back effect on TARGET enemy.

Or Job Ability Shield Rush: recast 3mins duration instant. Knock back target enemy with a chance to interrupt spell casting.

I like the block TP. Anything that inhibits a mobs tp gain when hitting me is good.

However, the knock back thing would be a problem. If the knock back throws the mob a decent distance, I could see you losing TP trying to ws when one went off.

Or, more importantly, when supertanking a group of mobs that you finally managed to get settled in front of you where you can block all of them.. then one of them gets flung back, and as it comes back to you... it makes the rest of the horde move, surrounding you. If you can't manage to get them gathered in front of you again fast enough... you get beat down.

I had something like that happen on a dynamis xarc dualboxed run recently. Got a crazy link and had like 7~ demons on me. A BST pet ran over to hit my whm, came back and moved everything, and I got surrounded And beat down.

NeoLionheart

09-06-2011, 04:29 PM

Block TP

Occasionally attacks deflected by a shield generate no TP for TARGET enemy.

I like this idea a lot, seems a lot of desirable tanks these days have some form of inhibiting TP gain. I don't see why PLD shouldn't have this as it doesn't go against SE's bogus claim that making PLD a tid stronger is a bad idea.

AldielQuetz

09-09-2011, 11:33 AM

Economizer

09-09-2011, 12:30 PM

Stammer: Recast 45 sec, cast time 1 sec MP 55. Temperarily mutes target, duration of silence varies with Divine Magic Skill. Have it add about the same enmity as flash, it would be like flash's magic stopping cousin!

If the maximum duration was set at 1 second, and it worked on things normally immune to silence, then it would probably be fine... of course, currently you'd want to get people in the party to stun the mob.

SpankWustler

09-10-2011, 02:59 AM

How about a spell, kinda like Flash, and since flash semi stops physical damage temporarily with a powerful blindness, how about:

Stammer: Recast 45 sec, cast time 1 sec MP 55. Temperarily mutes target, duration of silence varies with Divine Magic Skill. Have it add about the same enmity as flash, it would be like flash's magic stopping cousin!

What do you think?

The general concept of an anti-magic Flash sounds great. It would be a nice defensive ability to use even if you weren't the monster's target and it also gets away from shields, which means Ochain wouldn't overpower or render the spell useless.

Sounds awesome.

katz

09-10-2011, 03:22 AM

But why, PLDs seem to have become obsolete, cant proc anything, doesnt tank any more, no parties so no need for the job....Seriously I dont have PLD and even I can see it needs an overhaul.

Aeonk

09-10-2011, 06:44 PM

But why, PLDs seem to have become obsolete, cant proc anything, doesnt tank any more, no parties so no need for the job....Seriously I dont have PLD and even I can see it needs an overhaul.

Then it's no surprise you're wrong on just about all of your points.

no procs? It procs red with everything a WAR can except Scythe. Missing a whole 1 WS, I'll take those odds.

Doesn't tank anymore? Try Voidwatch sometime.

Not being needed in parties? I sure as hell hope you don't need a PLD to tank xp mobs for you. This hasn't been changed since lolibri burn in ToAU, I dont expect it to change now. That said, a PLD is not a terrible DD when they gear for it. Not nearly as bad as most anyone else you'd find in a pick up party for abyssea.

PLD is for hard content. And from how the test server sounds with up and coming voidwatch, expect to see PLD alot more often.

saevel

09-10-2011, 07:32 PM

Yeah WTF is up with people thinking PLD is "dead". They proc all red !! that WAR does except scyth, have a few yellow !! procs for light, have all GS, Sword and Staff blue procs, have most Club procs (missing Hexa) and can tank anything they want.

The problem usually is that most PLD's simply don't' know how to play anymore, they turtle up thinking their job is to survive when it's really to hold the monsters attention. Best way to hold it's attention is to hit it really hard, thus a good PLD wears offensive melee DD and rely's on their shield to reduce incoming damage.

SpankWustler

09-11-2011, 03:16 AM

Any reference to Voidwatch will probably be dismissed, in spite of the next update's content being over half Voidwatch.

Also, many of the upcoming Voidwatch fights look to be more difficult than the current Tier IV's, so it's pretty clear which job will be tanking every single one of those monsters. Heck, some of the fights look to be more difficult than euthanizing one's significant other with a claw-hammer.

Paldin's niche may be limited, but Paladin absolutely excels within that niche and the job is the furthest thing from dead and gone.

Theytak

09-11-2011, 06:55 PM

Don't forget though, when procing, it's always the one JA/spell you don't have. got a pld and a nin for procs? it'll be scythe 90% of the time. Got a war and a sam? It'll always be blade: ei. Always. Insert a continued pointless, bitter rant about shitty luck with procs here.

/bahumbug

AldielQuetz

09-13-2011, 11:54 AM

Bump

We need some kind of a spell!

Need some love!

Anucris

09-20-2011, 12:14 AM

No pld isn't gone and I see tons farming ochain constantly so they can go tank hard shit. But neone who says pld isn't a bad dd is being ridiculous and perhaps doesn't have a real DD lvled.
Killing stuff by itself on pld is like pulling teeth to anyone who plays a DD also. what takes 5 seconds for them to kill takes 2 mins on pld. And it's way worse outside abyssea. In abyssea pld is good enough tho with 150-380 crits depending on atma