The THF Master Suggestion Thread Compilation. Read? Contribute!

[Karbuncle]

I really want each and every THF to voice their opinion in a positive manner. Post if you feel you like THF how it is now, post if you like some of the ideas I'll list below, Post your own ideas.

Really think about the pros and cons of THF, and really think about how to improve that job. I'll start by compiling all the current suggestions I see on these THF Forums.

I'll Spoiler what i feel the highlight of those suggestions are. Feel free to read them, and the threads!

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Valisk's Ideas: "THF Adjustment Suggestion http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11921-THF-Adjustment-Suggestions




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"Nebo"'s thread on Steal, Despoil, and Mug (Second Link: SATA): http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9201-Steal-Aurasteal-Despoil-Mug-Discussion
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6916-Thief-Job-Ability-Synergy-This-is-not-2005?p=89600&viewfull=1#post89600




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Karbuncle's Suggestions on General THF improvement: (no thread)



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Byrth's Ideas on Treasure Hunter: (no Thread)
*Added! For this, It would make sense. The concept of a job designed to get drops in itself is pretty terrible, as you can see with THF, it has kept the job mediocre for years, and completely ruined it. I hope SE learns from this with FFXIV and never releases an ability to increase drop rate, because that job will be doomed as well.

But if a TH Whore we must be, It should at least be effective:



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General Suggestions to Improve Current Job Abilities:



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Insaniac's Compiled Suggestions: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments.
*This is a list of ideas/thoughts/suggested during the Rage > Calm down > Rage of our Screwed thread. Good list, and gives a very good idea of what we want in general.

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"Bombs" and "Traps"

*Suggested in another Thread, I expanded on this idea. This would fall in line with a lot of RP aspects of the THF Itself, setting traps and using explosives. Hope you enjoy.




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JoJax's Ideas on Steal, Despoil, and Sneak Attack/Trick Attack.
*I particularly found the introduction of Charge systems to be a good idea here. I fine tuned it a small chunk



Final thoughts!
Got an idea of your own? a suggestion of your own? Post it here i'll add it to the OP, and we can try to get our best for a brighter THF Future.

Even post if you feel THF is currently fine. All opinions are valid.

Edit: And to the community reps, I hope this makes things a bit simpler for you. Also, Please check back here every now and again, I try to update the OP :X

[Laphine]

Insaniac linked a bunch of ideas at the op on our rage thread as well. Might as well copy pasta :p

Maybe copy pasta the summary of our rage thread too so the way we see the job is clear.

[Karbuncle]

Thanks, and added :)!

[Smush]

So far i like how thf does on voidwatch atm i been doing really well DD wise ppl have been loving fient when its time to fanatic drink and zerg at like 20ish% and helping rngs and mages with collaborator but there is for sure room for improvement.

ill start with hate control.

Collaborator accomplice and TA is really all we have and its pretty limited by having low range and TA not Trasfering hate.

Collab/accomplice. since accomplic is a long timer its only really used in emergencies that will rarly happen so its almost like a useless ability i think if timers where split or lowered or both would get way more use out of it. also needs a bit more range increase so we dont have to leave the front lines.

Trick attack. TA is really good at the start of a fight for planting hate on tank and mid fight if still not capped which is rare but once hate is capped its really just a ability to do more dmg / not pull hate so i think it should about 5-10% of the hate you have to the tank also over the cap so that it helps them hold hate over DD's that do cap i dont think this would be broken because its not all hate you have its just a small % of it and you can only do it every min without merits also 5-10% wont last too long and i think it would really help both pld and nin.

Also i think we need a way to dump hate or dump a % of it from ourselfs a ability to do this would be really nice that way we could collorate and if we get to close to cap and TA is not up we can drop some hate.

DD-wise i think its really just about help landing SA and TA really need to come up with away to land this more a very skilled thf still is almost impossable to land it 100% every single fight maybe they want it like this for balance but if not then we need a way to land better.

more dual wield and crit attack bonues ofc which im think will get more of anyway.

more crit rate through a trait or job ability since im sure we wont really be able to cap ddex on most new mobs without brakeing are necks and losing to much things like haste attack and acc ect.

Defense-wise i think we could use a ability that grants us guaranteed safty from phy hits for a short time i think if they added it for magic it would be over powered. something like perfect counter or third eye. But maybe bully will be somethuing like this like a multi stun or something.

We need!! SUBTLE BLOW... NEED nuff said.

I thinks thats all for me.

[Smush]

What if they made WS only version of SA and TA into a trait kinda like overwhelming so if your behind someone and ws you get TA effect and behind mob SA effect it its kinda like a thf version of overwhelming and that way we dont have to tie are ws to a timer and can use the SA or TA ability for melee not sure if it would brake thf but i dont think it would but just a idea.

[SpankWustler]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments.?p=162846#post162846 is somewhere near where Byrth went over the idea. The search function of these forums has defeated me, so I can't get much closer than this.

It actually starts about a page before that and he just goes into more detail at that point, but maybe this will be helpful all the same.

[Insaniac]

What if they made WS only version of SA and TA into a trait kinda like overwhelming so if your behind someone and ws you get TA effect and behind mob SA effect it its kinda like a thf version of overwhelming and that way we dont have to tie are ws to a timer and can use the SA or TA ability for melee not sure if it would brake thf but i dont think it would but just a idea.
Since SE keeps talking about changing merit points they should change the effect of ambush to the same as overwhelm but from behind. Losing levels in the other merits would be kinda :( though. I think I could live with 1 feint 1 aura steal and 3 assassin's charge.

[Karbuncle]

Updated OP with Bombs/Traps suggestion.

[FrankReynolds]

Even if they buff ambush its gonna suck because being behind mobs is not really very easy / smart a lot of the time.

[Insaniac]

Even if they buff ambush its gonna suck because being behind mobs is not really very easy / smart a lot of the time.
It's not smart/easy to be in front of some mobs either. I would take the occasional extra 19% damage any day.

[Byrth]

It was mostly here (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1310416442266022552&h=50&p=3#124). I guess I should point out that I wrote that before the TH testing from this forum came out. It's pretty obvious that SE would never consider giving a system like what I describe if they don't even give real TH3.

I posted a version on this forum here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments.?p=162802&viewfull=1#post162802).

[Karbuncle]

Thanks Byrth.

As far as an Ambush buff, It could be reworked to give the bonus as long as you're not tanking, similar to Conspirator. This way its universally good so long as you're not in a low-man situation... So on harder content!

However, they'd need to rework its actual effects as suggested here(?) to make it useful too...

at the same time I'm not sure what I'd give up for it. im at 5/5Feint 4/5assn-charge 1/5Aura Steal. I want Aura Steal, I'd Miss my ass Charge if i dropped it to 1/5....

[Insaniac]

Thanks Byrth.

As far as an Ambush buff, It could be reworked to give the bonus as long as you're not tanking, similar to Conspirator. This way its universally good so long as you're not in a low-man situation... So on harder content!

However, they'd need to rework its actual effects as suggested here(?) to make it useful too...

at the same time I'm not sure what I'd give up for it. im at 5/5Feint 4/5assn-charge 1/5Aura Steal. I want Aura Steal, I'd Miss my ass Charge if i dropped it to 1/5....My feint is already dropped to 1. The only time I ever use it is when some WHM mule is trying to proc staff. Currently I'm 5/5 AC 4/5 AS and 1/5 Feint.

[litedragon]

i think all the thf needs now is widescan ability. think it will make and complete thf. besides upgrading the effectiveness of treasure hunter abilities. drop rates are extremely low and that ability really doesnt help. widescan would help farm and save time when searching for nms.

[FrankReynolds]

It's not smart/easy to be in front of some mobs either. I would take the occasional extra 19% damage any day.

merited Ambush is already a 7.5% increase in hit rate on anything that is tough enough to have a dedicated tank keeping its attention so that you can get behind it, and I notice almost everyone here is skipping it to add AS or AC merits. Its arguably the most powerful of the 3 and nobody uses it. That should give you an idea of how lame it is trying to stay behind a mob all the time.

[Insaniac]

merited Ambush is already a 7.5% increase in hit rate on anything that is tough enough to have a dedicated tank keeping its attention so that you can get behind it, and I notice almost everyone here is skipping it to add AS or AC merits. Its arguably the most powerful of the 3 and nobody uses it. That should give you an idea of how lame it is trying to stay behind a mob all the time.
The catch 22 is that THF doesn't typically doesn't melee on anything that is hard enough to use the acc from ambush. That's my guess as to why no one merits it.

[noodles355]

Ambush merits basically let you remove some acc gear from your SADE or SAEvis set. That's about it.

[Laphine]

I think the reason why no one merits it is because they feel they don't need it. People forgot what it is to have acc issues. But still, the issue never vanished. Or more reasonably speaking, and the reason why i also don't merit it as well, is because i was never again was in a controlled situation where i wouldn't get hate. The boost is already small, and if most of the time i have the attention of the mob, it's even smaller.

[FrankReynolds]

So we agree that buffing it is pointless.

[Laphine]

No, but if it had a bit more to it than acc it could certainly be worthwhile. DNC's Closed Position has both acc and evasion for one. If it added attack, more acc or something else, it could place us in a dilemma.

[Smush]

i was suggesting coming out with a new trait thats just like SA and TA but ws only that way we are not tieing ourselves to 1 timer it would be a thf's version of overwhelming. i think ambush should but let alone.

[Kirana]

I'd like to throw in an idea I had for a new thf ability. Similar to retaliation/counterstance but based on evasion. While using this stance, defense is greatly reduced (as with counterstance) but all evaded attacks grant TP to the thief as if they had been hit by the evaded attack.

[Kihrre]

I'd like to throw in an idea I had for a new thf ability. Similar to retaliation/counterstance but based on evasion. While using this stance, defense is greatly reduced (as with counterstance) but all evaded attacks grant TP to the thief as if they had been hit by the evaded attack.

Actually, along the lines of that I thought instead of granting TP, it would be really cool if in a multiple mob situation that the ability would cause the enemy's attack to bypass the THF and hit the other mob (random mob if there's more than 2 of them) ! I imagine this ability would be 30 second duration with 5 min cooldown... and it can also work with PD! :D
Initially I thought this would make more sense as a MNK ability, but since they already have many 'stance' abilities and their guard/counter, I figure this would be good complement to THFs natural evasion. What do you think?

[JofJAX]

Well I posted my ideas here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments./page52)

I don't think it would be too popular over all with the THF populace in general though.

but here it is again in spoilers:

[AyinDygra]

My post (link) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2067-Thie...-Treasure-Hunter-ideas?p=21363&viewfull=1#post21363) fell to page 3.

Basically, adding new ways to steal that don't break the economy like SE fears:
Snatch (steal temp items, and as someone else suggested, place these in the Loot Pool for the party to make use of)
Steal non-things: Borrowed Time, Stolen Heart, Pilfer HP, Pilfer MP

Then some more Thief-y things:
Caution (circle ability to reduce critical hits from enemies, and increases defensive skills)
Lure (pull a normally-linking enemy without linking - occasionally useful)
Distract (remove directional limitations on all actions against the target, including Sneak Attack, Overwhelm, and increase steal success rate)
Mug (add an attack to it, and maybe stun)

I didn't really have any hate manipulation suggestions, as this was before the manifesto was released.

[Karbuncle]

Okay, I'll add it to the OP.

Also i now have 4 Gold Medals... SQWEEEEEEEEEEE What does it mean?! nothing! But Its cool. and i need to get outside more.

[JofJAX]

I posted one too :/

[Karbuncle]

Hokay, I'll add them :o.

[Karbuncle]

And im actually out of room in the OP now lol. Capping my 10,000 word limit.

[Nebo]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6916-Thief-Job-Ability-Synergy-This-is-not-2005?p=89600&viewfull=1#post89600

Shameless plug for that (somewhat heated) Sneak Attack and Trick Attack idea thread I started a while back.

Edit:

Do the spoiler texts count towards the wording limit? Maybe we can remove or shorten them in favor of just adding links to the posts?

Just an idea.

[Karbuncle]

Spoiler tags in general only add about 16 letters per tag. Removing those would give me about enough room for 1 more link if anything, no description either.

Wanted to keep the OP someone cleaner, less cluttered. I can probably add your thread in there, just very little description. I want to look over it first ;3

[JofJAX]

Eh my name is JofJAX not Jojax...

Also, while I appreciate your condensing my post, I think it would be better if you just posted a link to the post instead. Making all of the suggestions links instead of Spoilers would free up space to add other peoples suggestions too.

My post for example would be: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13211-The-THF-Master-Suggestion-Thread-Compilation.-Read-Contribute%21?p=178872&viewfull=1#post178872

[RygaenYuui]

Since it's been stated in other posts:

Job Trait to increase flanking range of SA abilities.
Job Trait to enhance the ability of SA and possibly landing more than one Backstab/SA critical, or a trait that allows us to keep Hide status to land attacks until we're targeted for high enmity (In honesty, merited traits like Ambush which is practically useless now since accuracy is no longer a large issue at high levels, could probably be used to affect or even bolster SA's efficacy as far as damage multiplier is concerned. There really is no heavy use for Hide being used w/ SA. No use for Ambush either).

Job Trait to enhance the accuracy and potency of Steal, Mug, and Despoil. If we can't steal from a mob only but once, why can't we steal multiple items from a mob in that one steal, especially if it's going to be a 5:00 timer?

Chest/Coffer hunting used to be fun, but the nerf on the chests coffers you could pick has completely made that venture a sad and unreasonable hunt. Most lockpicking tools have far little use for much of anything. Is there some way that our really subtle inherent skills can get used for parties in some effective manner? Like allowing us to unlock random chests w/ thief tools or skeleton keys? I think my THF is losing all of his memory as to how to pick a simple tumble on a lock, and something about that just makes me die on the inside...

[Pusspuss]

Back before December of 2003 Sneak attack used to work as long as you were out of the monsters line of sight. Since the line of sight is cone shaped, you were actually able to SATA onto the tank who had hate if positioned correctly, it was amazing. Here is that fateful update :

"Sneak Attack" will now only be successful when performed from directly behind an enemy.
The positioning for "Trick Attack" remains unchanged. (http://www.playonline.com/comnewsus/200312162201.html)

Give it the @%$# back! :cool:

There was also a patch a long while later where they messed up. They made it so SA and TA, stacked or separate, would work on every hit in the weaponskill. It was like that for a couple of hours before they fixed it, so I actually got to play around with it, it was glorious. Make it a trait for high level THF. Tone it down for each successive hit if it's too "game breaking".The point of THF was to plant hate, and you need damage to do that.

Add another ability that works like sneak attack and works as long as you're out of line of sight (like SA used to). Allow it to be stackable with both SA+TA. Just something to boost damage.

Add a job trait that lets trick attack usable anywhere. Basically, being able to use SATA solo. Same damage, just THF takes all the hate from it.

The thing that cripples THF damage more than anything else is other players. Mostly BLMs.:eek: Nobody ever really wants to help the THF do damage. In fact I'm sure some players are actively against it.:mad: Positioning should be a bit more lax if anything for high level THFs as a job trait.

[noodles355]

That SA and TA affecting all hits would be epic. Maybe not giving the DEX and AGI boosts for each hit, that would be hideously overpowered on a 30sec~ish recast lol.
But Having the innitial boost recieve the DEX or AGI boost and then having every other attack in that attack round (including additional hits on WSs) being automatic criticals would be awesome. That would be an awesome damage boost. Like you say, a high level trait, like: [NAME] Lv. 95. Garantees any addtional attacks to be critical hits under the effect of Sneak Attack or Trick Attack.