Anyone actually wanna mention our new Flourish thingy?

[Eri]

Or does everyone agree that its not worth mentioning?

I don't see any use for it. Or like as mutch use as climactic was before the changes?
Like: Lets kill Hydra we bring 2 Dnc to Climatic its heads off?

Serioulsly has anyone an Idea how to use that in a 'good Way'?

[Asymptotic]

Unless there is some significant hidden bonus, it'll be completely useless.

[Abithra]

Mmm, I am not hyped for it -but- suppose got to wait and see how it acts...shall see I suppose (trying to be positive :x)

[Alkalinehoe]

inb4 it force crits.

[Shibayama]

It'll be about as good as striking flourish which I'm sure we all just love* to use. It'll be a flourish III most likely and on a 2-3 minute timer (unless they make it a flourish IV which I highly doubt just so they can make it so we can striking/ternary or whatever flourish - still doesn't seem like it'd be worth it unless it does more damage than reverse flourish darkness, or you have 5/5 No foot Rise and can quickly do them all quickly in succession.

All in all it sucks - dancers have waltzes, steps, sambas, and even new interesting jigs they can give us and the best they can give us is "make em triple attack like once" - our body won't even enhance it thanks to the fact that they mostly tacked on abilities that they just made during those updates (like instead of the bizzare "just enhances the potency of the new step peice we couldnt have had just an all around "enhances steps?" - odds are we can look forward to our etoile casaque +2 having that flourishes specific enhancement instead of things like waltz potency or samba potency or regain.

Still seething that nin got the parry and emnity boost I wanted... ugh.


*Nobody actually likes this ability.

[SpankWustler]

Sometimes I wonder if, rather than working as a team, the development team divvies up jobs between employees or something. Are certain jobs just not played or enjoyed by anyone on the development team, maybe? Some of the job additions are spot-on, and then Dancer gets something with literally no purpose.

Not something with a weird and rarely needed purpose, not something that falls short of it's intended purpose, but something that has literally no purpose. The last, best hope for this ability is that it will have some secondary effect in spite of possessing exactly the same help text as Striking Flourish which has none.

I don't understand how this happens.

[MiriOhki]

Ugh. screwed again. I have not been in any way impressed by any of the Flourish IIIs.

[Eri]

It'll be about as good as striking flourish which I'm sure we all just love* to use. It'll be a flourish III most likely and on a 2-3 minute timer (unless they make it a flourish IV which I highly doubt just so they can make it so we can striking/ternary or whatever flourish - still doesn't seem like it'd be worth it unless it does more damage than reverse flourish darkness, or you have 5/5 No foot Rise and can quickly do them all quickly in succession.

All in all it sucks - dancers have waltzes, steps, sambas, and even new interesting jigs they can give us and the best they can give us is "make em triple attack like once" - our body won't even enhance it thanks to the fact that they mostly tacked on abilities that they just made during those updates (like instead of the bizzare "just enhances the potency of the new step peice we couldnt have had just an all around "enhances steps?" - odds are we can look forward to our etoile casaque +2 having that flourishes specific enhancement instead of things like waltz potency or samba potency or regain.

Still seething that nin got the parry and emnity boost I wanted... ugh.


*Nobody actually likes this ability.

While i would agree with you for the most part, i liked Strikeing before climatic update blew it out of the water.
It enabled us to ws in af3+2 body and added 50-60% Crit Hitrate on any WS .... not like i like to ws as mutch as im supporting....

But it was something! Now Climactic makes any ws crit and Strikeing is completely useless. Even more than before!
And the New one prolly will be a F3 so useless its F4... IF it was to be F4 ~ Climactic would still consume all FMs :P

And for the none Rudra Dancers.... You can always Climactic Shark bite. Fun Times!

But atm i see absolutely no use for that new one.... even a single target Regain flourish 1/tick woulda been better XD

[Windwhisper]

With all the respect, i havent even used the double attack one except as it came out to test it. Its sadly useless. As will be the new triple attack one. Im very sorry SE but this wasnt very thoughtful created.

[Shibayama]

Seems kind of odd too - what reason would there be to use the double attack flourish period with this introduced? One would completely surpass the other if not for the Af3+1/2 body...

[Solsticewind]

>_> I don't use any of the Flourish III's out side of playing with em when they came out and again when they changed the one beyond that *shurges* there all useless for me rather save my finishing moves in case of a oh crap moment or if my tp gets wiped bye a mob move.

[Asymptotic]

Climactic Flourish is very good if and only if you have Rudra's Storm.
As of the dev1024 post, the JP version has Ternary listed under Flourishes III which unfortunately nukes into oblivion any niche use it might have had. They wasted their time programming the ability (although I suspect it was mostly copy/paste and changing values from Striking, gogogo time saving) and developing an animation that no one will ever see more than once.

Dear development team, have you ever actually played this class?

[KanaaLuv]

Did anyone take into consideration that Flourishes III were probably made so we can do a decent Rudra's? Or maybe so we can pump out more damage when we solo. Honestly I don't down the flourishes until I test them myself. We all downed Climatic until now its praised. We have no idea what SE has planned as far as AF3 vs new abilities/traits post lv90 and lets not forget the upcoming changes to job specific merit points. What would you rather have in Flourishes III? Raises? No,thx. Honestly, I don't care to spam Dancing Edge Or Evis/PK Reverse Evis. I rather skill chain with Rudra which does nice damage thanks to Flourishes III whether it was Climatic or Striking. It's like no one is satisfied anymore, there is a complaint about everything, they gave us more ways to dd now I guess the problem is we lack in the support department. Furthermore if the game is gradually moving outside Abyssea I would prefer to be able to force a CRIT/DA/TA if my daggers only hitting for low numbers on voidwatch type mobs. But then I guess that's when someone would say loldnc dd. Again, a counter for everything.

[Shibayama]

Well, its nice that you have rudra's but still most of us would rather see a) more support abilities that have real group combat applications (the raise dance thing is such old news at this point no?) and b) abilities that don't benefit a small portion of the dnc population with a specific weaponskill.

[Bubeeky]

I think we got shafted :(

[KanaaLuv]

Well, its nice that you have rudra's but still most of us would rather see a) more support abilities that have real group combat applications (the raise dance thing is such old news at this point no?) and b) abilities that don't benefit a small portion of the dnc population with a specific weaponskill.

Your right everyone doesn't have rudra, but even so why gimp the people that do? If I went through the trouble to get Rudra and it was trash I would be highly upset. I've seen nice shark bites and PK's with climatic, but I guess because of razed ruin everyone evis. I wouldn't mind having more things that make me a support player but dnc is a job that can be played many ways. I've seen some dancers haste samba saber dance and that's it, no support to the party what so ever. Only reason I mentioned the raise thing again is because it might be old but it was brought up again for this update. Support wise I would like to see a new samba and step, and not have any more JA's lowered to those that sub dnc. I think it's good we have versatile abilities because we can cure,tank,dd,support whichever to your liking.

[Alkalinehoe]

no support to the party what so ever.
Haste Samba is the support. If you're talking about cures WHM does it infinitely better and if you're in a party on anything difficult, you probably already have a WHM. Healing Waltz is nice, I always make sure after an AoE to see if the healer got afflicted and if so, I erase them. Otherwise, Accession + Erase/'na will be much more efficient. This is fairly rare, since most WHMs I know do a good job of keeping their distance.

[Shibayama]

Your right everyone doesn't have rudra, but even so why gimp the people that do? If I went through the trouble to get Rudra and it was trash I would be highly upset. I've seen nice shark bites and PK's with climatic, but I guess because of razed ruin everyone evis. I wouldn't mind having more things that make me a support player but dnc is a job that can be played many ways. I've seen some dancers haste samba saber dance and that's it, no support to the party what so ever. Only reason I mentioned the raise thing again is because it might be old but it was brought up again for this update. Support wise I would like to see a new samba and step, and not have any more JA's lowered to those that sub dnc. I think it's good we have versatile abilities because we can cure,tank,dd,support whichever to your liking.


The problem is, its not the fact that this is an ability which supports rudras, its that we already have two other flourish III's that can do that fine.

It wouldn't be so much of an issue if they could be used in conjunction with eachother but they're all on a shared timer and striking only lasts for one hit anyway.

So with Ternary Flourish it'll either completely eclipse striking and climactic and then we'll have two useless abilities and one good one if we wanna power up rudras/shark bite or it won't be as strong as the other two and will be useless. Personally I don't see the point unless this flourish is on a short timer and can be used to get 3x the tp from a swing if yer hurting for it and don't have reverse up yet or something, which is still a laughably situational buff like pre-buff presto was.

But right now if its just an ability to power up weaponskills it'll either be better or worse without much room for situational use unless there's some hidden effect they're not telling us.

[KanaaLuv]

Haste Samba is the support. If you're talking about cures WHM does it infinitely better and if you're in a party on anything difficult, you probably already have a WHM. Healing Waltz is nice, I always make sure after an AoE to see if the healer got afflicted and if so, I erase them. Otherwise, Accession + Erase/'na will be much more efficient. This is fairly rare, since most WHMs I know do a good job of keeping their distance.

Yea haste samba is the support but some people expect us to help cure more even if the whm has it covered nothing wrong with a little help here and there. That was my point.

[Shiyo]

Why is SE buffing dancer's damage when that won't make the job useful or wanted, ever?

Focus on the real problem, give dancers more ways to heal and support again, don't give them crappy damage buffs or copy/paste skills from thf, wtf.

[Sira]

atleast climactic flourish was useful (before the update) on king antro.

[Alkalinehoe]

Yea haste samba is the support but some people expect us to help cure more even if the whm has it covered nothing wrong with a little help here and there. That was my point.
So what you're saying is, you wanna waste TP when there is already someone who can cure you without any problems? Ok, makes sense.

[Shibayama]

So what you're saying is, you wanna waste TP when there is already someone who can cure you without any problems? Ok, makes sense.

SO you're saying you would rather be stuck in solo land being turned down for groups because "lol we need a real healer". Our heals are like 75% of our job - what reason is there to not want them enhanced? We shouldn't *have* to rely on another job - I get that white mage is supposed to be master of healing but still - as dnc there should be more than just damage we can put our TP into.

[Shiyo]

SO you're saying you would rather be stuck in solo land being turned down for groups because "lol we need a real healer". Our heals are like 75% of our job - what reason is there to not want them enhanced? We shouldn't *have* to rely on another job - I get that white mage is supposed to be master of healing but still - as dnc there should be more than just damage we can put our TP into.Agreed, this is how the job worked at 75, too bad they just want to turn us into another mindless DD or something :/

[Alkalinehoe]

SO you're saying you would rather be stuck in solo land being turned down for groups because "lol we need a real healer". Our heals are like 75% of our job - what reason is there to not want them enhanced? We shouldn't *have* to rely on another job - I get that white mage is supposed to be master of healing but still - as dnc there should be more than just damage we can put our TP into.
I never said that's what I wanted, I just said right now we aren't needed much at all for our healing abilities nor are they nearly as effective as WHMs. So might as well concentrate on other areas instead of wasting our tp trying to 1-up the WHM.

Edit: Why are you being turned down from groups? DNCs can take pretty damn well in group situations. If you're in a seal party, sub nin and bring tools to proc yellow. Otherwise, tanking is pretty good.

[Asymptotic]

Did anyone take into consideration that Flourishes III were probably made so we can do a decent Rudra's? Or maybe so we can pump out more damage when we solo. Honestly I don't down the flourishes until I test them myself. We all downed Climatic until now its praised. We have no idea what SE has planned as far as AF3 vs new abilities/traits post lv90 and lets not forget the upcoming changes to job specific merit points. What would you rather have in Flourishes III? Raises? No,thx. Honestly, I don't care to spam Dancing Edge Or Evis/PK Reverse Evis. I rather skill chain with Rudra which does nice damage thanks to Flourishes III whether it was Climatic or Striking. It's like no one is satisfied anymore, there is a complaint about everything, they gave us more ways to dd now I guess the problem is we lack in the support department. Furthermore if the game is gradually moving outside Abyssea I would prefer to be able to force a CRIT/DA/TA if my daggers only hitting for low numbers on voidwatch type mobs. But then I guess that's when someone would say loldnc dd. Again, a counter for everything.

You actually argue perfectly for why Ternary will be completely useless, unless, like I have said before, it comes with a significant hidden bonus. If it is capable of forcing crits, then it won't be completely useless, and depending on the rate, could rival climactic in situations where you weren't going to chain two rudra's back to back.

However, Striking did not force a crit on its own (Only with af3+2 body), so this ability seems unlikely to be included for Ternary. Hence, it won't see any use from good players whatsoever, and SE wasted their development time.

[Eri]

However, Striking did not force a crit on its own (Only with af3+2 body), so this ability seems unlikely to be included for Ternary. Hence, it won't see any use from good players whatsoever, and SE wasted their development time.

I think thats wrong. Striking always has a chance to make a WS crit. +1 and +2 body only Increase the odd of criting.

Nevertheless theres a hidden effect of increased crit dmg on the Tiara so WS on Climactic is the best bet now anyway.

We can assume Tren will have the same *chance* of criting a ws as striking had without enhancement gear.
Thats like never! Climactic wins for ws puposes. Leave alone the hidden bonus on Tiara.

[Byrth]

I think thats wrong. Striking always has a chance to make a WS crit. +1 and +2 body only Increase the odd of criting.

I'm pretty sure that's not true, but it's hard to disprove things so I'm not going to try.

[Eri]

If not than not XD but i figure none wants to try (me included) since one way or the other.... Climactic wins. Except for.... if you had 5 FM . Climactic would use all. Strikeing would use like 2 (i think, not that mutch into wsing) so if you'd want to use something but keep a few FMs it'd be Striking. Guess theres not a huge chance that'd happen thu.

[Shiyo]

I never said that's what I wanted, I just said right now we aren't needed much at all for our healing abilities nor are they nearly as effective as WHMs. So might as well concentrate on other areas instead of wasting our tp trying to 1-up the WHM.

Edit: Why are you being turned down from groups? DNCs can take pretty damn well in group situations. If you're in a seal party, sub nin and bring tools to proc yellow. Otherwise, tanking is pretty good.
Very unreliable kurayami and less damage makes ninja a better tank for seals. No TH makes THF a better tank for seals, they can also sub NIN too. No reason to ever use a DNC over another job inside abyssea.

Dancer is a lot more viable outside though!

[KanaaLuv]

You actually argue perfectly for why Ternary will be completely useless, unless, like I have said before, it comes with a significant hidden bonus. If it is capable of forcing crits, then it won't be completely useless, and depending on the rate, could rival climactic in situations where you weren't going to chain two rudra's back to back.

However, Striking did not force a crit on its own (Only with af3+2 body), so this ability seems unlikely to be included for Ternary. Hence, it won't see any use from good players whatsoever, and SE wasted their development time.

I'm pretty much done here, this is why I don't like to post. Like I said in my previous reply I don't dismiss the flourishes until I test them myself because "we have no idea what se is going to do" it might get an update like climatic it might not point is we don't know what it is going to do so I don't judge, and that being said does not make me a bad dancer. I guess I'm just different and not negative about everything.

[Alkalinehoe]

Very unreliable kurayami and less damage makes ninja a better tank for seals. No TH makes THF a better tank for seals, they can also sub NIN too. No reason to ever use a DNC over another job inside abyssea.

Dancer is a lot more viable outside though!
One day out of the week for Kura, surely you can go on the other days? If you're bringing THF into this, then they would have the same issue with Kura. Not to mention you can't always get a THF.