Poor Poor Rdm...useless as ever even to 95

[lllen]

I would be more excited about the new stuff if they hadn't, again, left Red mage in the dust. I have not been able to get a party on Rdm in over a year really, its always what else do you have? The job I have done for years, my main job, is basically useless.

[DebbieGibson]

It's useless because you can't get a party on it lol?

[cidbahamut]

It's useless because you can't get a party on it lol?
Probably meant it the other way around. I don't really agree with the assessment, but the update notes for Red Mage were a little bland.

[Seriha]

Part of is people needing to shift their view of RDM away from a WHM wannabe (That means no Cure V, kiddos). Rest is SE actually giving them the tools to be their own entity. Temper is a step in the right direction if it's actually good, but things like WS restrictions and accessible equipment options must also be looked into and built upon.

As is, gauging the job's worth based on Abyssea's proc system isn't the best way to go about it. Hell, judging any job based on atma and cruor buffs is also silly, since they're not gonna be there forever. And while the game is currently more low-man friendly than it's ever been, that doesn't mean you need to exclude people from a given job.

[JackDaniels]

It's too early to tell, I think levels 96, 97, 98 and 99 are going to be when the real balancing happens.

[Runespider]

It doesn't really matter if they make certain jobs better/worse than others anymore does it? do people have main jobs nowadays?

Takes a week to level anything to 90, just level everything and pick and choose what you wanna use, if you wanna heal level whm if you wanna nuke sch or blm. If RDM sucks don't use it. These kinds of "job is better than job" things were an issue when it took forever to level and gear a job but not anymore.

[Ank]

do people have main jobs nowadays?

there are jobs that I love, and there are jobs I have no interest in leveling. nothing wrong with hoping for something for something you love.

[Rexen]

It's a shame that White Mage and Bard got Addle, I kind of liked the idea of Red Mage specific enfeebles, it's what the job is best at and it's a shame to give unique aspects of it to other jobs. The manifesto said they they want to Red Mage to cripple foes and turn players into gods, or something along those lines, right now I don't really see how they're going to do that unless Temper is Double Attack and stacks with armor.

Nice spell though and I hope it is a sign of what Red Mage will be, top class enhancer and enfeebler.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Brd addle will/should stack with Rdm as it is with other songs, nothing wrong with that. Addle is nice but I always found it abit underwhelming if it was supposed to replace silence on NMs that were immune to Silence.

[Panthera]

Temper (RDM Lv. 95)
Grants the ability to occasionally attack twice.

If this stacks with Accession, getting Scholar to 45 will be mandatory.

How's that for useful?

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: It won't stack with Accession because Sch cannot learn or use it. There are no spells Sch main can't learn or get from subjob that are accession-able last I checked.

[Miera]

SCHs can't learn Phalanx but they can use it with Acession. They cannot learn stun but it can be used with the JA as well As Bar Spells and En spells.

[cidbahamut]

SCHs can't learn Phalanx but they can use it with Acession. They cannot learn stun but it can be used with the JA as well As Bar Spells and En spells.

Scholar can sub those and get them though. An exception was made for Haste because SE enjoys kicking puppies.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'm fairly certain Gain spells cannot be accession'd.

[Merton9999]

SCHs can't learn Phalanx but they can use it with Acession. They cannot learn stun but it can be used with the JA as well As Bar Spells and En spells.

I'm so sick of this. It's some crazy misunderstanding of ven diagrams and set theory or someone always says it wrong and people start arguing.

A spell cannot be accessioned if SCH main cannot use it in some way either through main or sub job. I'm sure that's what Neisan meant, because everyone knows about Phalanx and enspells. The ONLY exceptions where Refresh, Shell V and Break, for a short time period, presumably because SCH main would be able to use them through its main or sub job, in a pending update, and it did. Currently the rule stands for all spells. If SCH can't use it, it can't be accessioned. That means nothing learned by a job above level 50 will be accessionable, unless SCH gets or will get it. It would make absolutely no sense for a spell that SCH will never be able to cast have its major defining job ability used on it by another job!

So, you won't be able to accession Temper any more than you can accession gain spells, enspell II, Cure V. That is of course, unless SE decides to change this rule and allow /SCH to get more use out of the job than SCH/?, which wouldn't surprise me at this point.

And please don't pull out spells like Haste and Reraise, because those are the opposite logical direction. If a SCH can't use it it can't be accessioned, but additional spells can also not be accessioned. In other words, the set of spells SCH can't use are a proper subset of all non-accessionable spells.

[Miera]

I'm so sick of this. It's some crazy misunderstanding of ven diagrams and set theory or someone always says it wrong and people start arguing.

A spell cannot be accessioned if SCH main cannot use it in some way either through main or sub job. I'm sure that's what Neisan meant, because everyone knows about Phalanx and enspells. The ONLY exceptions where Refresh, Shell V and Break, for a short time period, presumably because SCH main would be able to use them through its main or sub job, in a pending update, and it did. Currently the rule stands for all spells. If SCH can't use it, it can't be accessioned. That means nothing learned by a job above level 50 will be accessionable, unless SCH gets or will get it. It would make absolutely no sense for a spell that SCH will never be able to cast have its major defining job ability used on it by another job!

So, you won't be able to accession Temper any more than you can accession gain spells, enspell II, Cure V. That is of course, unless SE decides to change this rule and allow /SCH to get more use out of the job than SCH/?, which wouldn't surprise me at this point.

And please don't pull out spells like Haste and Reraise, because those are the opposite logical direction. If a SCH can't use it it can't be accessioned, but additional spells can also not be accessioned. In other words, the set of spells SCH can't use are a proper subset of all non-accessionable spells.
Whoah there Leroy, no need to fly off the handle. It was a misunderstanding

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just a misunderstanding, bad wording and cleared up by Cid, nothing to see here folks.

[Panthera]

Whoah there Leroy, no need to fly off the handle. It was a misunderstanding

Well at least it was only one exclamation mark:...


It would make absolutely no sense for a spell that SCH will never be able to cast have its major defining job ability used on it by another job!

But at least Red Mage can...um... <insert something unique and useful here>

[Olor]

I love that WHM gets addle and RDM and SCH don't even get cure V... I mean for serious - how many levels has it been since either got a cure spell? It doesn't even follow the normal progression

[Merton9999]

Well at least it was only one exclamation mark:...



But at least Red Mage can...um... <insert something unique and useful here>

My edits were toning down the 10 other exclamation marks. This update is atrocious.

I agree about RDM, but don't think the way to handle it is by subbing SCH to do something SCH can't do. I guess we can Elemental Seal Paralyze II and Penury+Cure V is nice on WHM, but using accession on spells SCH can't seems like a much bigger deal.

[Leonlionheart]

From a DD point of view, AWESOME. Will be putting RDM+BRD in the party from here on out, and force the WHM to do everything from outside (unless I need bar- for that fight, and the RDM isn't /SCH). RDM makes fights pretty simple in the first place with addle, para II, slow II, etc. This just helps them out a bunch.

Of course this is all moot if the prominent end game continues to be Abyssea.

[Ank]

Just because it holds true doesn't mean its a hard and fast rule of SE's.

Come on man don't take their hope away.

[Olor]

From a DD point of view, AWESOME. Will be putting RDM+BRD in the party from here on out, and force the WHM to do everything from outside (unless I need bar- for that fight, and the RDM isn't /SCH). RDM makes fights pretty simple in the first place with addle, para II, slow II, etc. This just helps them out a bunch.

Of course this is all moot if the prominent end game continues to be Abyssea.

Except whm is getting addle... so what was it that RDM had again?

[Leonlionheart]

Except whm is getting addle... so what was it that RDM had again?

Paralyze II, Slow II, Phalanx II, Refresh II

[Olor]

Paralyze II, Slow II, Phalanx II, Refresh II

Which gets you exactly nowhere with the vast majority of content that players actually engage in, so, yeah. Whoop de doo.

[Fredjan]

RDM now has two "unique" enhancing spells, Refresh II and Temper (The description didn't say if it can target others or not, I'd like some confirmation - I am NOT a melee RDM - I play RDM for party/end-game play).

Merit point spells are just that, merit point spells. I'd rather have enfeebles I can learn that are unique to RDM that don't require me to spend merit points to obtain something no other job has. However, there's another thought I've had similar to what people have said about White Mage merits (namely Protect/Shell potency), and something I'd like to suggest:

- Change group 2 RDM merits to unique spells learnable at RDM Lv75 that no other job can or will learn.
- Adjust group 2 merits to "enhance" potency of the spells given in this category. Slow potency, Paralyze potency, Blind potency, Dia potency, Bio potency, Phalanx potency, blah, blah, blah.

That'd make me happy.

As is, SCH/RDM can provide the strongest Phalanx in the game, until they give RDM more enhancing gear. With the best enhancing magic skill gear available compared to RDM/SCH (yeah, I'd rather Accession + Phalanx and save merits on Phalanx II >.>) and SCH/RDM, SCH has the highest total.

About Cure V, I have mentioned this in the WHM Manifesto thread, but I'll type what I've thought since then...

As someone who has WHM, RDM, and SCH leveled, I too am "so-so" about RDM and SCH not having a higher tier cure spell. However, SCH has Rapture to help them (not to mention AF3+1/2 head to increase Rapture's effect even more), Red Mage doesn't have anything. If anything, RDM deserves Cure V more than SCH for that reason, and going by the trend of previous cures learned, RDM would learn it sooner. If they gave SCH Cure V, SCH would likely become the strongest healer with access to Rapture, unless they restricted it in some way for that spell (not likely, they haven't restricted Rapture of Ebullience on any white/black magic spell). A Rapture'd Cure V would exceed a WHM's Cure VI in healing strength without need of Divine Seal from /WHM. As things are, it's possible for SCH to outdo Cure V with Divine Seal + Rapture, granted that's only possible every 10 minutes. tl;dr: It's more likely that RDM will see Cure V than SCH.

[Quetzacoatl]

Are you kidding me? People are still whining about RDM not being useful still, even after we got this godly Spell that allows DDs to double attack and this job ability that helps us SKIP a recast timer on a spell? Seriously? Just because we don't get Cure 5?

CURE 5 WILL MAKE RDM BROKEN SOLO GODS TO THE POINT IT CANNOT DIE UNLESS IT WIPES TO A ONE-HIT MOVE. IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH USING ANYWAY OUTSIDE ABYSSEA JUST LIKE CURE 6 IS REDUNDANT FOR WHM.

Has anyone ever thought of that?

Yes, Abyssea is the most content 95% of people do these days, but it's sure as hell not the only content. God, this is so annoying to hear about, because it's not a simple fix....I've had to argue this with people a lot today and I'm going crazy with MAYAD and slowly running out of ways to persuade people that it would only cause more problems than fix.

[Rosina]

umm Rdm has ALWAYS been a magic fencer, and tbh its highest kill is enhancing from what I recall (this was years ago and @ level 69/70 i had capped all my skills for maat fight) enchancing magic actually increases the dmn your en-spells do a bit. And SE is trying to bring rdm to the front line where it belongs. Only the playerbase is trying to chain it to backline. RDM do not actually possess a staff skill and to be frank I wish they couldn't use those elemental staves. And Had a bit higher sword skill. The rdm job armor is that of fencer garb just an fyi :)

Rdm is more then a refresh battery, healer, emfeebler. RDm is similar to a blu they are hybrid dmg dealer caster. Why you think rdm got refresh to begin with? so they can melee and cast w/o resting so much. Also that is why they got convert then later assecsion (which increases acc)

[Neisan_Quetz]

RDM now has two "unique" enhancing spells, Refresh II and Temper (The description didn't say if it can target others or not, I'd like some confirmation - I am NOT a melee RDM - I play RDM for party/end-game play).

Merit point spells are just that, merit point spells. I'd rather have enfeebles I can learn that are unique to RDM that don't require me to spend merit points to obtain something no other job has. However, there's another thought I've had similar to what people have said about White Mage merits (namely Protect/Shell potency), and something I'd like to suggest:

- Change group 2 RDM merits to unique spells learnable at RDM Lv75 that no other job can or will learn.
- Adjust group 2 merits to "enhance" potency of the spells given in this category. Slow potency, Paralyze potency, Blind potency, Dia potency, Bio potency, Phalanx potency, blah, blah, blah.

That'd make me happy.

As is, SCH/RDM can provide the strongest Phalanx in the game, until they give RDM more enhancing gear. With the best enhancing magic skill gear available compared to RDM/SCH (yeah, I'd rather Accession + Phalanx and save merits on Phalanx II >.>) and SCH/RDM, SCH has the highest total.

About Cure V, I have mentioned this in the WHM Manifesto thread, but I'll type what I've thought since then...

As someone who has WHM, RDM, and SCH leveled, I too am "so-so" about RDM and SCH not having a higher tier cure spell. However, SCH has Rapture to help them (not to mention AF3+1/2 head to increase Rapture's effect even more), Red Mage doesn't have anything. If anything, RDM deserves Cure V more than SCH for that reason, and going by the trend of previous cures learned, RDM would learn it sooner. If they gave SCH Cure V, SCH would likely become the strongest healer with access to Rapture, unless they restricted it in some way for that spell (not likely, they haven't restricted Rapture of Ebullience on any white/black magic spell). A Rapture'd Cure V would exceed a WHM's Cure VI in healing strength without need of Divine Seal from /WHM. As things are, it's possible for SCH to outdo Cure V with Divine Seal + Rapture, granted that's only possible every 10 minutes. tl;dr: It's more likely that RDM will see Cure V than SCH.

I count +70 enhancing max for sch from a quick search on XIAH, and +79 for Rdm. Care to tell me where the missing 10 skill is coming from? Also Phalanx 2 was buffed so it's equal-ish to 1 at 5/5 now, with longer duration from Rdm (although you only get cape+feet+2/5 set bonus for duration as opposed to 5/5).

EDIT: Forgot waist slot for Sch

[Olor]

well, if RDM had procs, no one would be whining about abyssea. But since the majority of jobs got a raw deal on that - and most of the good gear out there now is found in abyssea - why shouldn't people complain?

I mean, I dunno man, do you like having to level a job you don't want to play so you can get gear for the job you do want to play (kind of pointless to even bother with the gear since no one will let you join their nm runs anyway)?

I don't. I mean seriously. Why shouldn't rdm complain? What is there to do outside of Abyssea?

Voidwatch? Crappy drops, wonky system, no one wants to do it.
Dynamis? Mostly outdated gear, a few new items that pretty much no one is interested in bothering with since better stuff can be had easier in abyssea?
Salvage? lol.
Campaign? omfglol

So, yeah, I can see why people are asking for an ability which will allow them to get invites on the job they want to play.

[Quetzacoatl]

Rdm is more then a refresh battery, healer, emfeebler. RDm is similar to a blu they are hybrid dmg dealer caster. Why you think rdm got refresh to begin with? so they can melee and cast w/o resting so much. Also that is why they got convert then later assecsion (which increases acc)

You're not meleeing with /SCH. ever.

[Zumi]

RDM isn't useless people always want them for fell cleave parties to P2 and heal the war.

[Rosina]

hey olo I know this is off topic but I read your comments on ffxiv forums about the crafting changes in ffxiv. I was hoping you can do me a favor and post something for me? if not it ok. But all in all say

" not everyone speeds level to 20 doing various things, that gear under 20 is very much useful and needed. And if the crafters actually liked the system even U'dah would be full of gear. Even on Selbina server most the lower tailors ward is empty"


Anyway on topic, the playerbase is making stuff outdated not SE. If people didn't speed level, gear would still have meaning. abyssea didn't outade anything. Just added more content. You guys speed leveling is killing the game. I level over 30 charaters (restarts) in 7 years and i never got bored of leveling. RPG are mostly about leveling the character in some form. If your bored of leveling simply do not level. But do not out right say abyssea outdated everything. When it is you who are pulling the string on that.

[Ophannus]

Temper wont be useable with Accession. Remember we can't accession spells that a SCH can't use via sub aka Refresh II.

Also of interest...


Spontaneity (Lv. 95)
Reduces casting time for the next magic spell the target casts.

Can be used on others?

[Rosina]

You're not meleeing with /SCH. ever.

actually I have once it was so-so. Sorry but I, actually play jobs as intended by SE. And I enjoy it that way. :) I more or less melee as /blu (for custom trait from blu spells) /drk for the attack boost.

I spent most of my rdm leveling pre aby as a melee and I did very well. All my skills were pretty much capped cuz I knew how to gear for it. >.> kinda the proper way to play actually instead of fake number crutching on off variables which is just based on assumption or an illagel add-on whicg is not perfect either. I tend to take pride in learn the job from personal experience. Not what some one posted on the internet. I play the game for fun not numbers :)

[Leonlionheart]

RDM + Melee discussion...

Waste of time. RDM Melee sucks.

[Quetzacoatl]

actually I have once it was so-so. Sorry but I, actually play jobs as intended by SE. And I enjoy it that way. :) I more or less melee as /blu (for custom trait from blu spells) /drk for the attack boost.

I spent most of my rdm leveling pre aby as a melee and I did very well. All my skills were pretty much capped cuz I knew how to gear for it. >.> kinda the proper way to play actually instead of fake number crutching on off variables which is just based on assumption or an illagel add-on whicg is not perfect either. I tend to take pride in learn the job from personal experience. Not what some one posted on the internet. I play the game for fun not numbers :)

But numbers are fun too! D:

Don't misunderstand me, though. Since 2004 I've tried /NIN, /BLU, /DRK, even /DNC. Each and every subjob has its perks, but eventually you'll want a subjob that works for overall content, which is why I do /NIN. I just don't see subjobs like /SCH worthwhile unless you're soloing. And I'm surprised you would say this about RDM, for all you talk about doing DNC right...wanna melee like a frontliner? gear like one.

Oh, and I don't use 3rd Party Windower and its Add-ons.



RDM + Melee discussion...

Waste of time. RDM Melee sucks.

So does BLU melee, Blue Magic is where its DD lies!

if you don't have an almace.

[Olor]

Will do Rosina.

[Leonlionheart]

So does BLU melee, Blue Magic is where its DD lies!

if you don't have an almace.

Oh hoh you got me.

[Ank]

Also that is why they got convert then later assecsion (which increases acc)

I'm sorry, What?

[Leonlionheart]

I'm sorry, What?

He means composure

[Ank]

Ah, thanks. That was an odd moment.

[Quetzacoatl]

He means composure

rofl, Composure's accuracy bonus doesn't mean jack inside abyssea...thanks for the clear-up.

[Fredjan]

I count +70 enhancing max for sch from a quick search on XIAH, and +79 for Rdm. Care to tell me where the missing 10 skill is coming from? Also Phalanx 2 was buffed so it's equal-ish to 1 at 5/5 now, with longer duration from Rdm (although you only get cape+feet+2/5 set bonus for duration as opposed to 5/5).

EDIT: Forgot waist slot for Sch

Re-looked into it myself, you're right. I must've had an error when I looked into that. >_> I stand corrected.

I did do some looking into Cure V, however, and to give people an idea what RDM and SCH are capable of with this spell:

RDM- You're lucky to break 1k. Cure potency, on RDM, reaches up to ~42% at this point as far as I'm aware, using Augur's gloves and Estoqueur's Houseaux +2 (The large MND boost beats 1% extra from serpentes).

SCH- Won't break 1k, but using Rapture + Savant's Bonnet +2 (+60%) you're capable of doing 1500+, which is stronger than a WHM's Cure VI usually. That isn't factoring abyssea (cruor buffs or atma) either. There's a reason they haven't given SCH this yet, and I think that's probably one of the reasons.

I do have to laugh @ the raise 2/3 additions to these jobs though. Seems kinda pointless with the ease EXP is to get.

[Neisan_Quetz]

46% actually, not that it matters by much. the missing 4% is probably Augmented Z pumps.

[Ophannus]

The good thing about R2 for RDM isn't the EXP but the fact that we now have 2 Raise spells to use so we don't have to ride R1 timers in an emergency.

[SpankWustler]

SCH- Won't break 1k, but using Rapture + Savant's Bonnet +2 (+60%) you're capable of doing 1500+, which is stronger than a WHM's Cure VI usually. That isn't factoring abyssea (cruor buffs or atma) either. There's a reason they haven't given SCH this yet, and I think that's probably one of the reasons.

This is a big number, but if you include the Cureskin from Cure VI and consider it requires a stratagem, White Mage is still in the lead by miles. I could see people being upset if they just go by the huge number that pops up in the chat log, but I hope the development team doesn't let petty stuff like that affect their decisions.

As for this update and Red Mage: If Temper can be cast on anyone, Red Mage just became awesome. If not, at least the Red Mages who inexplicably want to hit things with things are happy. Either way, somebody wins.

[Malacite]

I'm reserving judgment on Temper until we confirm that it is targetable and functions as Mythic Weapon style OAT and not Joyeuse.

If it IS like Joyeuse, then SE fails hard. Still waiting for that enfeebling magic update too - it'd be nice if every NM under the sun wasn't either super resistant or outright immune the spells that would help most for that fight - like Silence, Break, Gravity etc. God forbid a RDM may actually be able to perform it's intended function.

[Malamasala]

I could see people being upset if they just go by the huge number that pops up in the chat log, but I hope the development team doesn't let petty stuff like that affect their decisions.

From my experience they don't really worry about anything in the game. They just look at definitions.

WHM: Best healing job. Ok, then we don't give cure V to other jobs.

This is also a large reason behind getting stuff that sound fitting, but aren't. Like stunga which sounds awesome, is terrible due to the actual ready animation time. But it really sounded like a Ramuh would be casting this spell, so SE are happy.

Sometimes I wish SE actually worked on balance rather than definitions.

[Lastranger]

Personaly i allways wondered why Se never went the path of magic melee = greater dmg in exchange for rdm's mana per hit, kinda like a mini version of drk's Souleater ability but for the magic melee and drain mp instead of hp on rdm.

It could have augemented all spell's like spikes, enspells, stoneskins/blink and the mana drain would be adjusted to avoid mass abuse from haste party zerg/Kc zerg alternetivly give the best boost to en2 spells or have the requirment be sword/dagger for ability use.

im in no way sugesting it should yield tier 4-5 spell dmg from strikes but it should be in in the 100-200 at least.
The spikes would hit harder when ur struck with ability active and stoneskin would add some more amount of dmg it can take in % but for cost of mana, blink would have more shadows at cost of some mana for the extras.

Another ability that would rock for rdm would be one that activate on element of enspell u use, like enfire2 would give DA trait with that ability on and enthunder2 would grant Crit rate trait active, enbliz2 would boost MAB, making the rdm a further and better caster if one chose to be backline, or enwater2 for a cure potency trait.

But im loving the idea of rdm getting some kind of DA spell.
Ive played rdm as my first job and loved the fact that i could be melee/healer/DD caster/Defeebler and swap roles as needed at lower levels, but alas it all went sour after i hit near mid 40's - late 40's and i become the mindless refresh/haste/dispel bot that sometimes was allowed to cast ele spells but never again go frontline, after 50's it got worse and i was made into a main healer and i ended up hating rdm in Partyand left the job at 55 for 5 years, until i ended up relevling it in 2010 in FOV Duo box refinding what i loved about rdm, the ability to swap roles, not be locked in one forever.

as for the cure5 discusion i dont think i would mind it as long as it dont mean a return to single role, if anything i wish SE takes the last 9 levels to give RDM back it's old form of an jack of all trade, and refocus on all of RDM's ability's enfeeb defeeb element sword-magic.

Oh and i wish the devs would either fix the enspell2's weaknes effect to be aligned with the element of the spell so u dont have to use enwater2 on crabs for weakning them to lightning when crabs r resistant to water spells, it dosnt make any sense or give us a new set 3 that weakenes to same element as the spell u cast.( it may make sense on nin spells but not on enspells)

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

I'm reserving judgment on Temper until we confirm that it is targetable and functions as Mythic Weapon style OAT and not Joyeuse.

What's the difference exactly? The way it interacts with other forms of Double Attack? Meh. I'd be content with a straight +DA% like Fighter's Roll (except not random, obviously, since random strength buffs are COR specific -- it should be equivalent to a decent, but not perfect, roll).

For current content, though, it doesn't matter how it functions or even what the duration/recast/cost/%DA given is, it's still crap. The target can get tp faster, but only by feeding tp to the mob faster, which everyone hates and fears. (Even if the TP moves themselves aren't dangerous, it still screws with proc timing.) Most melees aren't meleeing most of the time anyway. Regain atma and just pop in to WS is much safer, especially on things with dangerous AOE.

If you didn't want the DRK in party to hit the mob once per round before, you certainly don't want them to hit the mob twice per round now.

Even using it on the tank is slightly worse than not using it -- both sides get tp faster which makes tp moves come more often, annoying the BLM and slightly increasing the danger that one will land while shadows are stripped and the tank didn't get them back up due to recasts/paralyze/silence/whatever.

It would be great for content like classic Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, or Nyzul where you have a lot of mobs to kill in limited time, probably have some CC'd, and you want to deal as much damage to them as possible quickly without worrying about how much TP you're giving them. But that kind of content doesn't exist anymore, or only exists in its level 75 form which will be even more trivialized by level 95 players than it was by level 90s. Current content is all about the endurance fights on single targets and TP starving the mob (not to mention reducing the number of players in AOE range) is a crucial part of the strategy for nearly everything.

Unless and until SE brings back many vs. many content, Temper will have little use and less desirability.


Still waiting for that enfeebling magic update too - it'd be nice if every NM under the sun wasn't either super resistant or outright immune the spells that would help most for that fight - like Silence, Break, Gravity etc. God forbid a RDM may actually be able to perform it's intended function.

That's why SE gave us Addle, which actually works on spellcasting HNMs (because unlike other enfeebles, its effect when it lands is not powerful enough to drastically reduce the difficulty of an 18-on-1 fight). Why they then turned around and gave it to WHM, I have no idea -- it's not like WHM have trouble getting into parties. But maybe WHMs will decide that they're too busy to keep up Addle and suggest that the party invite a RDM to do it. (Or maybe they'll actually have resist problems with it -- after all, they don't have +40 skill from their AF, AF2 and AF3+1 alone; for that matter, they don't even have an A+ rating in enfeebling.)

I'm less bothered by BRD getting a similar spell, since, for one thing, they might stack. Songs generally stack with non-songs with similar effects. Even if they don't, BRD is rare enough to not be a major threat to another job's invite rates.

[hiko]

well, if RDM had procs, no one would be whining about abyssea. But since the majority of jobs got a raw deal on that - and most of the good gear out there now is found in abyssea - why shouldn't people complain?

I mean, I dunno man, do you like having to level a job you don't want to play so you can get gear for the job you do want to play (kind of pointless to even bother with the gear since no one will let you join their nm runs anyway)?

I don't. I mean seriously. Why shouldn't rdm complain? What is there to do outside of Abyssea?

Voidwatch? Crappy drops, wonky system, no one wants to do it.
Dynamis? Mostly outdated gear, a few new items that pretty much no one is interested in bothering with since better stuff can be had easier in abyssea?
Salvage? lol.
Campaign? omfglol

So, yeah, I can see why people are asking for an ability which will allow them to get invites on the job they want to play.

you speak about lvl90 content. Move to lvl95(99)!
what do you know about lvl95 content?
Voidwatch tier II might get good drop (still need to fix drop system)
if the DA spell is not self only its a nice buff
Dynamis? hello relic+2 mats

[Godofgods]

Rdm had it golden all that time at 75. Us drk's dont wanna hear it'

[Merton9999]

SCH- Won't break 1k, but using Rapture + Savant's Bonnet +2 (+60%) you're capable of doing 1500+, which is stronger than a WHM's Cure VI usually. That isn't factoring abyssea (cruor buffs or atma) either. There's a reason they haven't given SCH this yet, and I think that's probably one of the reasons.

Did you consider the weather bonus that SCH can full-time with Aurorastorm + Korin Obi + Twilight Cape? Without that I believe SCH has access to 38% gear potency. With the 15% from Weather + obi + cape (always procs), which is multiplied outside of (and not subject to) the gear cap, SCH now gets a possibility of +59% (1.38*1.15 floored) to cure potency with Aurorastorm, without atmas or Rapture. I believe that would put Cure V well over 1k. I put my standard numbers standing in Jeuno into Furen's cure calculator, used 38% gear potency and light weather and got 1071. That's without the Twilight Cape bonus, which should bring it to 1120 (cape + obi considered together at 1.15 multiplier).

[Daniel_Hatcher]

RDM has only started being useless since the level cap raise from 75, so "as ever is" not really the best way of putting it.

[Andrien]

i like my refresh wh0res~

[Phen]

Welcome to thf/drk/pld town. It is suffering.

[Malacite]

Precisely - if Temper doesn't stack with Double/Triple Attack ala Joyeuse, then people are going to hate it. Especially since that means it can't proc on WS.

So no, it's pretty far from "meh" if that's how it works.

[Creelo]

Inside Abyssea, Temper will probably not turn out so hot... But Outside, it should prove to be extremely useful even if it works like Joytoy.

I think the interesting points about Temper that we'll have to wait to see are if it stacks with DA/TA/QA (Unlikely I feel :(), if it can be casted upon others (I'm guessing it'll be your immediate party only, like Refresh/Regen), how much it'll OAT, and if it works on both main-hand and off-hand weapons (or both fists for H2H).

[Ophannus]

RDM at 90 is a RDM75 with Tier 4 nukes and a stronger refresh.

[Zatias]

I thought Temper would just be a 5%~ increase to Double Attack.

[Malamasala]

RDM at 90 is a RDM75 with Tier 4 nukes and a stronger refresh.

Could be worse. SMN at 90 is a SMN75 with higher perpetuation cost and the ability to quickly remove 100 MP. According to patch notes SMN at 95 will be the same. At least they'll fix everything at level 99.

[Ophannus]

Eh SMN can be good in Abyssea, I see some sweet 4-5k Heavenly Strikes, 8k with proc. Ifrit's Favor can give your party +25% DA when capped, that's pretty wonderful, especially outside Abyssea when ppl will miss VV/Apoc

[Malamasala]

Eh SMN can be good in Abyssea, I see some sweet 4-5k Heavenly Strikes, 8k with proc. Ifrit's Favor can give your party +25% DA when capped, that's pretty wonderful, especially outside Abyssea when ppl will miss VV/Apoc

I'm not saying it is bad. I'm saying nothing changed. While RDMs actually got new spells, even if IV spells aren't that fancy.

[Malacite]

Eh SMN can be good in Abyssea, I see some sweet 4-5k Heavenly Strikes, 8k with proc. Ifrit's Favor can give your party +25% DA when capped, that's pretty wonderful, especially outside Abyssea when ppl will miss VV/Apoc



o-O the hell? Really?

[Hayward]

I'm not quite so apocalyptic about Red Mage as things stand right now. There still needs to be some fixes to make the job stand out on its own as opposed to /WHM or /SCH, but it is nowhere near useless. The adjustments to NM enfeebling is welcome, though a rather startling indictment of the developers' bungled attempt at stopping Red Mages/Black Mages/Scholars from soloing NMs through Enfeebling/DoT. Though it will no longer be exclusive to RDM at 95, Addle is quite a valuable spell for the job and gives stunners a bigger window to stop -ga IV/tier V spells. The group 2 merit spells could stand an overall rise to the merit point limit to allow more improvement in their potency and effectiveness.

Some more attention to the martial side of RDM would be nice (Temper will be a great start if, in fact, it is limited to oneself and Accessionable), but it should not be treated as the magic bullet to the job's identity issues.

[Tannlore]

o-O the hell? Really?

And would it surprise you to know that I've been turned down constantly when I offered this to people? They rather have nothing... no seriously, they wanted nothing up instead.