New ability (posted in jp)

[Dfoley]

I have terrible jp so bare with me...(its really quite embarassing, but its atleast a sneak peak for later)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11489-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BB%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%EF%BC%9A%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8A%E5%A3%AB?p=172272#post172272

Based on the feedback from everyone, in the next scheduled version update we plan to perform the following adjustments.

Cooldown Lv95
Reduces the (over)load on the automaton.

Adding the characteristics (job trait?) of Moksha (subtle blow) to the automaton


Moksha is being added as a property for future use, we also plan to add attachments to add more. (Moksha is hindu for release, but apparently is used to mean subtle blow)

Also since the last Qand A, let me clarify a little miss understanding.

Puppet master adjustments:
Adjustments of the attachment are considered high priority and important, but this does not mean that we intend to just use additional attachments and not adjusted the job or pet itself.

[Dfoley]

Ironically enough Moksha refers to 'release' from the 'cycle of death and rebirth'... I lol'ed a little bit, now to find out what it does?


edit: then i QQ a little to find out it ment subtle blow.

[TimeMage]

I just don't get it... Now that we are flooded with equipment that, very effectively, reduces overload, we get a JA to reduce it even more? With AF3+1/2 body, AF1 hands, and Bufoon's Collar... I don't see the point.

[Dfoley]

Its probably an "if you overload" type thing you pop the ability 1x per 30 minutes to remove all burden/overload.

It does make you wonder, who was asking for it since it starts with "due to feedback".

Feedback from who? What terrible pup is still overloading?

[TimeMage]

Feedback from who? What terrible pup is still overloading?

The sad part is... That's probably the case.

[Yoky]

So are we getting a useful update?? Oh wait... Overload... wait what?? I wasn't overloading that much at 75. Now at 90 overload just doesnt happen. Subtle blow..that could be useful, but i rather see somethign a little more useful...

[TimeMage]

Hmmm, now that I think of it... We should found the alliance of Ragnarokian PUPs right here, lol

[Mizuharu]

You know, I can actually see this Cooldown JA being useful for right after you activate your automaton

[TetsujinX]

I am probably that horrible PUP that was referrenced above. Although, I am relatively new to the job and don't yet have all the "no-more-overloads ever" gear yet. Please don't hate me

[Dfoley]

It wasnt a burn to any one pup tesujin. More of a

Why the f do they say:

'based on feedback'

when they mean

"Based on our internal developers idea of what a pup might need even though we dont play one"

[Vangoh]

That new JA is pretty stupid if you ask me, like the ppl above have been saying "WTF overloads anymore?" With the Condenser attachment is pretty much impossible you overload. Why SE WHYYYYYYYYYYYY!?

[Dfoley]

In all fairness SE has been pretty decent about adding 4 new attachments for pup. If we get 4 more and maybe 10 or so revamped i might be happy ;-p

[Niyariko]

It wasnt a burn to any one pup tesujin. More of a

Why the f do they say:

'based on feedback'

when they mean

"Based on our internal developers idea of what a pup might need even though we dont play one"

I bet they based on feedback from the japanese players only, since that post was a direct translate. Obviously, the JP and NA are asking for different things, and this also shows they only responds to the JP in priority.

If SE reply was about AI, and posted on the JP forum first, I bet a lot of JP would be clueless, just like how we are reacting now on the decrease burden(overload) and auto's subtle blow update.

This is so-SE.

[Dfoley]

Nother sneak peak/ terribly horrible jp to eng translation.


Hello, we have a few answers in regards to feedback/suggestions specially in regards to cool down.

1) Yey for subtle blow. What attachment is going to enhance this? I wouldn't expect it to be very potent.

A) It will be about as potent as other pets/wyvrens. I have a low potential to add the attachment at this time


2)Repair is nice but its hard to recover from multiple status ailments.

A) We think we have an idea for this. We are thinking about having repair oil remove 1 status ailment, +1 remove 2, and +2 remove 3.

3) It would be nice if cool down instantly removes overload

A)Cooldown has 2 affects
1. Reduce current load by half
2. If overloaded, it will remove the overload
It may seem this would be better for low levels, but we figure its more comensurate of a skilled puppettmaster having 95 levels of experience.

4) When reviewing/adjusting the attachments dont forget to review the elemental cost

A)Of course we will review both the performance as well as the cost to use them. For example, we are considering changing armor plate from "+% defense" into "-PDT"


5) In regards to automatons casting silence on crabs even though they have the mp to cast, but no spells to cast...

A)Without scanner, it will cast silence on mobs with mp.
With scanner, it checks for MP, then it checks resistance to see if there is a point in casting the silence.

As an aside, we will review the scanner with all other attachments.

6) Why wont the blm cast on certain mobs (example of mob in az underwater ruins)
A) It indeep seems like these mobs are 'silencing' the automaton and when we looked at it the issue goes deep so be patient with us as we try to address this.

7) Nother example of blm not casting in abyssea (blazzing eurca)
A) If you have a scanner on, with low casting skill it determines the resist rate is too high and wont cast anything.

[Camate]

We will have an official translation up for you all tomorrow. Sorry for the delay!

[Mizuharu]

[For an unofficial translation, here's copy/paste from google crome!




Spoiler tags because Google Crome translations will make your eyes feel as though they were violated to the highest degree...

[Atomic_Skull]

THF still gets a rock.

Again.

[Dfoley]

O good thfs are complaining in the pup threads again....

Seriouslly guys complain in your own job forums/threads. First it was summoner now its thfs. I understand you want developer attention too but posting whines and qq's in other peoples threads just derails them.

[Horadrim]

THF still gets a rock.

Again.

Eh... I can't say whether or not THF needs any boons, but even if the only reason you get invited is Treasure Hunter (which I doubt it is, THF/NIN + WHM can duo a ridiculous number of things in Abyssea), a one-trick pony still gets to go out to pasture.

Stop complaining in the forums of a job that doesn't get event invites without being friends of the leaders.

[xbobx]

"A)Without scanner, it will cast silence on mobs with mp.
With scanner, it checks for MP, then it checks resistance to see if there is a point in casting the silence. "

what is funny is they still don't get it. What do you have to say to get them to clue into the fact it shouldn't cast silence on crabs. They fixed NPC's so they don't anymore, why can't they get this?

[Camate]

As promised:



Originally Posted by Konq
I am very happy that “Subtle Blow” has been added to Automaton’s job traits. I feel that you guys paid attention to our feedback. Does “Subtle Blow” being added as an attachment also mean that its efficiency will be lowered?

The efficiency of “Subtle Blow” will not be lowered just because it may be added as an attachment also! It will have the same efficiency as Wyvern and other pets.


Originally Posted by unyotaka
I am genuinely happy about the addition of abilities, but I feel that a lot of puppetmaster’s learned abilities should be able to be used at lower levels. The only ability after Lv15’s Repair is a merit point ability.

I understand that puppetmaster does not have many job abilities, and I am thinking about adding abilities in the mid range.

For example, since it is difficult to remove status ailments from Automatons, I am considering an ability with a separate timer from that of Repair, that uses Automaton Oil to remove status ailments. (Higher quality Automaton Oil will remove more status ailments)

Automaton Oil: Removes 1 status ailment
Automaton Oil+1: Removes 2 status ailments
Automaton Oil+2: Removes 3 status ailments


Originally Posted by Kylme
It is very convenient that Cooldown has the ability to relieve overload instantly.

You are pretty sharp!
Cooldown has 2 effects.

1. When this ability is used, the burden on the Automaton is halved.
2. If the Automaton is overloaded, the overload status will be removed.

There have been some comments saying that this ability should be available at a lower level, but due to the extent of its effects and considering the effects of Kenkonken, we decided that this ability should be learned at level 95.

Regarding puppetmaster not having many effects, please look at the previous response.



Originally Posted by kushinada
Please don’t forget to adjust the attachments’ elemental energy also, and not just attribute points.

Yes, of course.
As we are adjusting their efficiency, their elemental energy will be reviewed as well.
An example of our ideas about adjusting attachments is changing the “Enhances Defense” of Armor Plate to “Reduce physical damage taken.”



Originally Posted by Kanopuu

Originally Posted by Mocchi
If the opponent casts spells, Silence will be cast automatically.

However, considering the following actions:
・Cast Silence on Crab (unless you have a scanner)
・Silence is not cast on Ninja Yagudo and Bard Yagudo
it would be best if, “Silence is cast on opponents with MP. Silence is not cast on opponents without MP, even if they cast spells,” rather than, “Silence is cast on opponents that cast spells.”

It seems like my description was a bit vague. Your understanding is correct.
To reword what I said:


If you don’t have a scanner:
Determine whether the opponent has MP or not, cast Silence if the opponent has MP.

If you have a scanner:
Determine whether the opponent has MP or not.
Also, determine if the opponent casts spells and evaluate the accuracy of the opponent’s spells.
If there is a possibility of Silence having benefit, Silence is cast.


On a side note, when we’re reviewing all of the attachments, we will also review the effects of scanner.


Originally Posted by Kanopuu

Originally Posted by Mocchi
It seems like the Automaton continues to cast Silence on an opponent with complete resistance. There is a possibility that this is a bug, so we will check this on our end too.

There are probably many cases, but I will list 2 specific examples:
・Mx'ghrah in Abyssea-Misareaux
・Ob in Alzadaal Undersea Ruins

In both cases, the Automaton (with scanner and tranquilizer) casts Silence over and over again, but the spell is resisted every time.


Thank you for your report.
We have confirmed that Silence was in fact being cast on an opponent with resistance.

We are investigating the causes of this bug, but it seems to be a very deep rooted problem.
I am sorry about the inconvenience. Please give us some time to fix this problem.


Originally Posted by Luk
・I have another issue about scanner that I would like to be reviewed.
When battling Eruca in Abyssea-Attohwa with scanner equipped, the Automaton had a Spiritreaver head and Stormwalker frame, but did not use any spells during the battle. Please fix this problem.

When scanner is equipped, judgments are made based on the accuracy of spells, so if the Automaton’s skill levels are low or if the opponent’s resistance is high, no spells will be cast.

Upon confirmation, spells were cast against Blazing Eruca in Abyssea-Attohwa when skill levels were sufficiently high, so please work towards raising your skill levels. (In fact, when I had the scanner equipped while raising my magic skill level, no spells were cast, and I was a bit confused…how embarrassing…)

[Lordscyon]

It sounds good Anything that sounds like bonus instead a nerf I support.

[Mizuharu]

It sounds good Anything that sounds like bonus instead a nerf I support.

I think the only Nerf PUP ever got was the Magic Morter nerf, right?

[xbobx]

"I think the only Nerf PUP ever got was the Magic Morter nerf, right?"

Nope

[Horadrim]

"I think the only Nerf PUP ever got was the Magic Morter nerf, right?"

Nope

Off the top of my head...

Magic Mortar, Activate/Deactive, Armor Piercer... I know there are more, but I can't think of them.

The Act/Deact thing wasn't a huge deal because folks figured out how to make it work anyway, but yeah, a nerf is a nerf.

Physical Damage Down instead of Defense Up is exciting, I imagine the Magic Defense attachments will get the same treatment. I'd really like to hear a list of the currently proposed changes for attachments -- even if they end up being different by the time they are patched in. How great would it be if Valoredge actually becomes able to tank by the end of this.

[Theytak]

The efficiency of “Subtle Blow” will not be lowered just because it may be added as an attachment also! It will have the same efficiency as Wyvern and other pets.

People honestly care about pet subtle blow anymore? Anything that it would matter on has so much natural regain that the effect becomes non-existant.


I understand that puppetmaster does not have many job abilities, and I am thinking about adding abilities in the mid range.

For example, since it is difficult to remove status ailments from Automatons, I am considering an ability with a separate timer from that of Repair, that uses Automaton Oil to remove status ailments. (Higher quality Automaton Oil will remove more status ailments)

Automaton Oil: Removes 1 status ailment
Automaton Oil+1: Removes 2 status ailments
Automaton Oil+2: Removes 3 status ailments


My inventory says "how about something that doesn't require consumables?", while my brain wonders "if this was added, would you also adjust the effect of pup's AF boots?"


You are pretty sharp!
Cooldown has 2 effects.

1. When this ability is used, the burden on the Automaton is halved.
2. If the Automaton is overloaded, the overload status will be removed.

There have been some comments saying that this ability should be available at a lower level, but due to the extent of its effects and considering the effects of Kenkonken, we decided that this ability should be learned at level 95.

Regarding puppetmaster not having many effects, please look at the previous response.


while this is convenient, please, please, please, please, please tell me you're not using KENKONKEN as the norm for puppetmasters, because that's just silly... For a pup with half a brain, burden doesn't affect anything other than ice-spam heavy spiritreaver play, and even then it's just a matter of adjusting your gear a little and knowing your timing. This JA would really be a lot more effective if you added it at, say, 50, and had the burden decrease scale as your level goes up (capping at 50% at 95)


Yes, of course.
As we are adjusting their efficiency, their elemental energy will be reviewed as well.
An example of our ideas about adjusting attachments is changing the “Enhances Defense” of Armor Plate to “Reduce physical damage taken.”

This makes me happy. Very happy. Just please don't take the Equalizer approach to the PDT, because equalizer is fairly useless 80% of the time.



It seems like my description was a bit vague. Your understanding is correct.
To reword what I said:


If you don’t have a scanner:
Determine whether the opponent has MP or not, cast Silence if the opponent has MP.

If you have a scanner:
Determine whether the opponent has MP or not.
Also, determine if the opponent casts spells and evaluate the accuracy of the opponent’s spells.
If there is a possibility of Silence having benefit, Silence is cast.


On a side note, when we’re reviewing all of the attachments, we will also review the effects of scanner.

Yea, that's nice and all, but none of us want to have to waste an attachment slot for something that the puppet should be able to do on it's own, given that npc fellows can (and iirc, you SAID in that update that you made it so puppets wouldn't cast silence needlessly either, but that bit never actually happened. I may be wrong though). This is especially true for ICE slots, because the LAST slot that could be used for fixing something that shouldn't need fixed is the slot that is always full already due to other far more important attachments (manabooster, tranquilizer, loud speakers, ice maker, and tactical processor)

....ok, not tactical processor, lol. Seriously, can you just tell us what it's supposed to do?


Thank you for your report.
We have confirmed that Silence was in fact being cast on an opponent with resistance.

We are investigating the causes of this bug, but it seems to be a very deep rooted problem.
I am sorry about the inconvenience. Please give us some time to fix this problem.

I can accept this answer. Deep rooted AI bugs are obviously difficult to fix, even if they've existed since tranquilzer was released.


When scanner is equipped, judgments are made based on the accuracy of spells, so if the Automaton’s skill levels are low or if the opponent’s resistance is high, no spells will be cast.

Upon confirmation, spells were cast against Blazing Eruca in Abyssea-Attohwa when skill levels were sufficiently high, so please work towards raising your skill levels. (In fact, when I had the scanner equipped while raising my magic skill level, no spells were cast, and I was a bit confused…how embarrassing…)

This wasn't an issue with the puppet, this was an issue with the player. Spiritreaver always gets buggy when you use the scanner on it, because as far as we can tell, Spiritreaver has the scanner already built in (at least, it has for as long as I've used spiritreaver (since it was released)).


Off the top of my head...

Magic Mortar, Activate/Deactive, Armor Piercer... I know there are more, but I can't think of them.

The Act/Deact thing wasn't a huge deal because folks figured out how to make it work anyway, but yeah, a nerf is a nerf.

also burtts, puppet deploy hate (a work around exists, but like activate/deactivate, a nerf is a nerf), and.... something, I know there was another one, but I can't remember what it was for the life of me

[Linny]

Maybe I'm wrong, but as they explain how Tactical Processor works, and if they change attachements or elemental capacity, maybe it could have an impact on overload, and this ability could be usefull

[Tetsujin]

I'll repeat what was mentioned before and say that this totally does not look like a level 95 job ability.
Some of the job abilities at 95 look like mini-two hours (Manawell, for example.) To place it on scale, cool down doesn't seem to balance out well. Perhaps if it cleared ALL burden, or if its recast timer was ludicrously low (like, 1:30 or something) then it would make sense.

Otherwise, this looks like an ability that can scale on effectiveness based on player level. Something that can be added somewhere between level 40 and 60, based on abilities from other jobs.

[Anza]

also burtts, puppet deploy hate (a work around exists, but like activate/deactivate, a nerf is a nerf), and.... something, I know there was another one, but I can't remember what it was for the life of me

Burts was a pretty big one.

Some others over the years:
* Ventriloquy no longer claiming a mob (loss of our only native claiming tool, an instant JA claim that effectively worked like Provoke with a little shorter range for claiming purposes)
* In addition to more recent puppet hate modifications, some earlier changes (like the one that removed the ability to solo Diabolos with Spiritreaver)
* Puppet super fast spell recast (which was obviously a bug, but was a freaking blast)

I personally don't really care much about not getting some great new ability. We got some good new attachments in the July mini-update when most jobs got nothing, we'll get new spells (Thunder V, maybe some WHM spells), H2H skill increase is a bigger buff than most DD jobs just by the nature of how H2H damage is calculated, etc.

A couple minor tweaks with Cooldown and Pet Subtle Blow trait aren't a big deal, but I'd rather have them than not.

[Theytak]

I'll repeat what was mentioned before and say that this totally does not look like a level 95 job ability.
Some of the job abilities at 95 look like mini-two hours (Manawell, for example.) To place it on scale, cool down doesn't seem to balance out well. Perhaps if it cleared ALL burden, or if its recast timer was ludicrously low (like, 1:30 or something) then it would make sense.

Otherwise, this looks like an ability that can scale on effectiveness based on player level. Something that can be added somewhere between level 40 and 60, based on abilities from other jobs.

well, the problem with that logic (in regards to pup, anyway), is that it points out one of two things. A: Overdrive is a horrible 2hour, or B: Cooldown could have been something much more useful if it were taking part of Overdrive (like the enfeeb resistance, or the haste boost).

Don't get me wrong, I like overdrive, I just don't feel that it's really got the game changing ability that warrants a 2hour recast timer like most other 2hours do. Now, if SE were to split it into two abilities, one allowing maneuver spam w/o overload, and one giving the short term buffs to enfeeb resistance, attack speed, damage, and (NOT MAGIC DAMAGE *puprage*), and then throw them each on to 20 minute timers.... and actually, give us role reversal and ventriloquy at like, level 30 and 50, and replace their T2 merit slots with the new split up overdrive.... and then give us a real 2hour....

now that would be awesome.


Burts was a pretty big one.

Some others over the years:
* Ventriloquy no longer claiming a mob (loss of our only native claiming tool, an instant JA claim that effectively worked like Provoke with a little shorter range for claiming purposes)
* In addition to more recent puppet hate modifications, some earlier changes (like the one that removed the ability to solo Diabolos with Spiritreaver)
* Puppet super fast spell recast (which was obviously a bug, but was a freaking blast)

I personally don't really care much about not getting some great new ability. We got some good new attachments in the July mini-update when most jobs got nothing, we'll get new spells (Thunder V, maybe some WHM spells), H2H skill increase is a bigger buff than most DD jobs just by the nature of how H2H damage is calculated, etc.

A couple minor tweaks with Cooldown and Pet Subtle Blow trait aren't a big deal, but I'd rather have them than not.

the vent one was the one I as forgetting, thanks. I don't personally count fixing obvious bugs as nerfs, though, with the exception of magic mortar, because that wasn't an obvious bug, and whether or not it was a bug is debatable. Still, I agree, cooldown/SB will be nice. Not game changing; just convenient.

[Kristal]

There was also the 0-Maneuver Mana Converter nerf, which allowed AFK skilling of Guard.

I'm glad to see the devs thinking of PUP, and actually communicating it to us. For a long time, devs have had little but contempt for the job. (A good indication of that can be found in the confusing and ill-matched gear available to PUPs below 75, such as a lack of decent gear and no access to endgame gear from expansions before ToAU.)

Now if they could add an Elemental H2H WS.. (or automaton Elemental WS, but H2H also helps MNK)

[Dfoley]

Sigh we dont need ele ws, nor do our pets. Just like we dont need asurans fist.

There is life outside/after abyssea.

That and most of those 'nerfs' are obvious bug fixes that most people knew would be addressed eventually.

[xbobx]

Problem is they fixed all the bugs that helped pups and ignored the bugs that hurt pups. So it is very one sided.

[Dfoley]

I wont argue that xbobx.

Tactical processor and terrible ai, we are looking at you.

[Kristal]

Sigh we dont need ele ws, nor do our pets. Just like we dont need asurans fist.

There is life outside/after abyssea.

That and most of those 'nerfs' are obvious bug fixes that most people knew would be addressed eventually.

Asuran Whatsits?

There's also life inside abyssea, and I'd rather not use a lvl 77 dagger (augmented Yataghan is best dagger available for PUP, as far as I can tell) with 70 lower skill and limited in subjob choice because it's the only way to make amber myself on PUP. It wouldn't have to be another Fell Cleave or dethrone Stringing Pummel, just some decent damage EWS.

And yes, some of the nerfs mentioned above where unbalanced and in need of a fix, but others were entirely focussed on limiting PUP for no good reason.

[Kristal]

Originally Posted by unyotaka
I am genuinely happy about the addition of abilities, but I feel that a lot of puppetmaster’s learned abilities should be able to be used at lower levels. The only ability after Lv15’s Repair is a merit point ability.

I understand that puppetmaster does not have many job abilities, and I am thinking about adding abilities in the mid range.

For example, since it is difficult to remove status ailments from Automatons, I am considering an ability with a separate timer from that of Repair, that uses Automaton Oil to remove status ailments. (Higher quality Automaton Oil will remove more status ailments)

Automaton Oil: Removes 1 status ailment
Automaton Oil+1: Removes 2 status ailments
Automaton Oil+2: Removes 3 status ailments


That does sounds nice, but with two abilities burning through oil, 12 oil per stack won't last long... so can we expect an increase to 99? Even if recipes and NPC costs remain the same, 99/stack would go a looong way.

[Dfoley]

I just dont see a need for amber light generation.

Just like i dont see it for assurans fists.

To this day no one has given a valid argument why we need it that doesn't start with 'when i low man abyssea'. In which case you should have a mnk/war/nin/whm/blm/blu where any one of those can get amber.

I love pup, but its not built for low man. Its built for solo, single group party content (read as exping old school), and endgame (low man abyssea isnt end game).

[Theytak]

I just dont see a need for amber light generation.

Just like i dont see it for assurans fists.

To this day no one has given a valid argument why we need it that doesn't start with 'when i low man abyssea'. In which case you should have a mnk/war/nin/whm/blm/blu where any one of those can get amber.

I love pup, but its not built for low man. Its built for solo, single group party content (read as exping old school), and endgame (low man abyssea isnt end game).

You're completely wrong on that point, because you're not talking about "low man", you're talking about "absolute minimum party member efficiency with triggering in abyssea". Pup is one of the best low-man jobs in the game, given how easily pup can fill in any slot in a low number group (melee DD, magic DD, heal, limited support, limited tank). You're correct that pup isn't designed for !!proc efficiency, but that's not fucking "low man". Pup excels in solo, Single Party, Single Alliance, and most End Game content (I say most while thinking about einherjar...)

Also, being able to proc red is incredibly useful if you're solo-trigger farming. Mnk and pup are both really solid solo jobs in abyssea, but neither of them are capable of effectively solo farming gold chests for triggers. That's the only reason any of us want an elemental h2h WS (which it does technically need, since it's one of two weapons without a single elemental WS; the other being great axe. Though, for anyone using axe besides bst, axe has no elemental WS either, but since primal rend is elemental axe has an elemental ws.)

[Dfoley]

You're completely wrong on that point, because you're not talking about "low man", you're talking about "absolute minimum party member efficiency with triggering in abyssea". Pup is one of the best low-man jobs in the game, given how easily pup can fill in any slot in a low number group (melee DD, magic DD, heal, limited support, limited tank). You're correct that pup isn't designed for !!proc efficiency, but that's not fucking "low man". Pup excels in solo, Single Party, Single Alliance, and most End Game content (I say most while thinking about einherjar...)

Also, being able to proc red is incredibly useful if you're solo-trigger farming. Mnk and pup are both really solid solo jobs in abyssea, but neither of them are capable of effectively solo farming gold chests for triggers. That's the only reason any of us want an elemental h2h WS (which it does technically need, since it's one of two weapons without a single elemental WS; the other being great axe. Though, for anyone using axe besides bst, axe has no elemental WS either, but since primal rend is elemental axe has an elemental ws.)

I got lost in the part where I said good for solo/single group/end game and then you started argueing that that was where they excell...

Low man in abyssea = minimum number of people which is the only place people talk about wanting asurans fists and amber light generation. I wasn't refering to low maning old school content that any single group can kill now.

I also got lost when you said monks hand no good way at amber light generation. Cataclysm called and would like to talk to you.

Axe has 2 elemental ws, 1 is bst only (mythic), the other is war/bst only (empy).

[Theytak]

I got lost in the part where I said good for solo/single group/end game and then you started argueing that that was where they excell...

Low man in abyssea = minimum number of people which is the only place people talk about wanting asurans fists and amber light generation. I wasn't refering to low maning old school content that any single group can kill now.
Yea, I was mostly just pointing out that you need to clarify that when you're saying it. Pup is good in normal sense of "low man". Pup is not good in Abyssea Lowman Procing, but neither are 2/3 of the other jobs in the game. It wasn't really a shot at you so much as my annoyance at people being excessively vague when they talk about stuff on these forums, to the point that half the time you can't be sure you know exactly what someone is talking about, and it normally results in useless arguments that result in both sides arguing in circles never even realizing that they effectively agree with each other.


I also got lost when you said monks hand no good way at amber light generation. Cataclysm called and would like to talk to you.
I... dur...


Axe has 2 elemental ws, 1 is bst only (mythic), the other is war/bst only (empy).
Cloudsplitter doesn't count as a warrior ws because no sane warrior is going to waste their time grinding bukhis to get it, since it's damage is meh (rampage pretty much dances all over its face) and there are half a dozen other, easily accessed elemental WS war has access to; sanguine blade. But this bit is mostly just my gripe that cloudsplitter sucks.

now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to failing at monk. That, or I should get some caffeine or something...

[Dfoley]

Just a heads up, cooldown was changed from 10 -> 5 minutes, expect a post at 3-5pm cst saying that as well sense it was posted in jp already.


While considerably more useful then before.... I still don't see myself ever using it with my play-style/gear being as I haven't overloaded since I got my +2.

[Lunani]

When I first heard about tornado kick, I really thought it would've been a wind based ws xD but yeah, its a bit irritating how 3/4 of jobs are redundant in abyssea, but it would be nice if there was some variety of ele ws available to pup that didn't come from changing out equipment entirely, at least mnk using staff has a skill to warrent it, not a c- or d skill weapon that pretty much either requires specific atma to make use out of effectively.

[xiozen]

When I first heard about tornado kick, I really thought it would've been a wind based ws xD but yeah, its a bit irritating how 3/4 of jobs are redundant in abyssea, but it would be nice if there was some variety of ele ws available to pup that didn't come from changing out equipment entirely, at least mnk using staff has a skill to warrent it, not a c- or d skill weapon that pretty much either requires specific atma to make use out of effectively.

Doesn't PUP have access to Aeolian Edge, which is an elemental weaponskill? Knowing this, do we really need a native elemental weaponskill? I personally don't think so...unless I'm missing something.

[xbobx]

Yes, they have access to Aeolian Edge but have to switch to dagger. Most jobs get to keep their best weapon to do amber, a couple jobs can't.

[Theytak]

the annoying thing is that pup does have magical WS, in the form of cannibal blade, and I think Magic Mortar. Of course, despite being magical WS that never miss and are magical ws, they don't give magical ws light (amber), they give physical ws light (ruby). but hey, pup's totally working as intended.

[Zhronne]

Of course, despite being magical WS that never miss and are magical ws, they don't give magical ws light (amber), they give physical ws light (ruby). but hey, pup's totally working as intended.
The same happens with a couple of other WSs as well. I remember being pretty surprised when that happened to me on Ninja the early days of Abyssea.

[Kristal]

the annoying thing is that pup does have magical WS, in the form of cannibal blade, and I think Magic Mortar. Of course, despite being magical WS that never miss and are magical ws, they don't give magical ws light (amber), they give physical ws light (ruby). but hey, pup's totally working as intended.

Cannibal Blade and Magic Mortar are both 100% physical weaponskills, despite similarities to other weaponskills (Sanguine Blade), naming ("Magic") or animations. With Magic Mortar being little more then a Chainbound(Fusion) automaton JA that consumes all TP and rarely deals damage.

[Kristal]

Yes, they have access to Aeolian Edge but have to switch to dagger. Most jobs get to keep their best weapon to do amber, a couple jobs can't.

Actualy, they don't. Only when they sub THF, RDM, BRD, RNG, DNC or NIN. /DNC and /NIN are common enough on PUPs I guess, but go /WAR and you end up having to use Gust Slash. Which is as effective as a wet fart.

[Theytak]

Cannibal Blade and Magic Mortar are both 100% physical weaponskills, despite similarities to other weaponskills (Sanguine Blade), naming ("Magic") or animations. With Magic Mortar being little more then a Chainbound(Fusion) automaton JA that consumes all TP and rarely deals damage.

Then is it my imagination, or my memories failing? I swear I've had cannibal blade do damage while physical shield effects were up. Magic Mortar I was completely guessing, though. and it's not like we'd ever actually manage to get a kill shot with it anyway (see your description of the effectiveness of gust slash)

[Kristal]

Cannibal Blade is a slashing damage WS with some weird properties. It's based on Automaton Melee Skill, TP, enemy slashing resistance and distance to target. Anything else is ignored. I'm not sure about CB vs. Physical Shield, but like MM it doesn't follow the normal rules for damage. I think Magic Mortar ignores anything and everything, assuming you can actually make it deal more then 0 dmg, but I haven't seen it myself yet. (Due to lack of need for PUP in Abyssea..)

[Theytak]

Now that you mention it, I remember that CB is slashing damage. I'm not sure how I forgot... God dammit OldDevTeam, why did you have to make everything so obnoxiously over complicated?