With all the changes, do you think SE is trying to end us/this

[chubrocka]

I myself think that SE is trying to End the game. All the changes to make it an easy play and fast leveling. The lack of any real questing add ons. I think most of us long time players and the longtime players who stopped after the long wait for something new from 75 cap would agree. If SE wanted to keep this going they would, we would have long, hard time taking content. We wouldnt have had the last massive server merge because people stopped playing from lack of new content. Think about it. How do you shut it down and still keep a loyal player base. Well i can think its the way there doing it now. Lack of content only made enough people leave to condence servers. Us die hards still keep going. Years later we get new content that makes the game So easy to get everything maxed and all older content complete. When we finally finish a game that i didnt think was possible we leave. It also makes for any newer palyers to lose interest in a LOT shorter time. Seeing people with every job at level 90 and them only starting 6 month or less ago is silly in any MMO.

Im wondering your thoughts?

Way to go SE.

This is not a thread about payment systems, please keep it out.

[Zatias]

I'm guessing they made lvling so easy because of all the noobs complaining that it took too long to level. These noobs were the ones that lvled to 20 then quit. SE wants them to stay for more profit.

Then again, with all the Click&Buy complaints, maybe they really are trying to kill the longevity of the game.

[Reiterpallasch]

I'm pretty sure if they wanted the game to end they'd just turn the servers off.

The new payment system is easy. To me it's like having our noob filters back (back in the day when stuff like the dunes, SJ quest etc would 'filter' out some of the bad players). If you can't figure out how to use a credit or debit card to buy crysta, you probably can't figure out all the easy to understand things in game either.

[Inafking]

If I said yes would you go away?

[Dfoley]

Its more likely that their mom's wont give them the credit card again/on a monthly basis to buy crysta. Personally i grow very tired of these 'pity me' threads.

Yes SE hates you. and just you. The rest of us are okay.

[chubrocka]

Wow I guess i came to the wrong place for an adult conversation. And my mother passed in this life, so ty very much for your kind thought.

Nothing was said out of pity, jest, rant or rave. Its a thought, nothing more from.

[Michae]

Look at it this way, se can say "we are closing all servers and ending the game in a year". That would cause a major drop off in playership, servers would have to be quickly merged, alot of ppl would be out of work overnight and players would grumble because they were unable to complete everything they wanted to in the game.

If you make it incredibly easy (as they have), ppl can get everything done they wanted to and move on, causing playership to gradually drop, server merging would be slower, some ppl would stay out of hope for new content. Some players would be more willing move on to XIV (which is getting better and better) and whatever their new mmo is going to be because they are satisfied with thier xi experience and want to play other se games due to that experience. They can remove workers off xi to other projects gradually so there would be less lay offs and they could still milk xi for awhile. Then when they finally make the one year announcement they only have a couple servers and a handful of ppl working on xi anyway and its no big deal if it tanks. Its a great business strategy really.

But long story short (too late), yes I believe its the end times for ffxi. Makes me sad, I miss the game and would like to play more, I just have nothing to do and my ls has fell apart due to ppl leaving the game already.

[Inafking]

Wow I guess i came to the wrong place for an adult conversation.

Adults know that money making companies try to make money. Not try and use childish annoyances to make their players want to quit. Everything you've mentioned had more to do with trying to draw new / retired players in and make more money per month off the ones they have. If you wish to be treated as an adult, start thinking like one.

[Alhanelem]

My thoughts? I'm sick of these threads.

They're not "trying to end this." They're making money. There's no reason to do anything like that until they have something else that is making more money, and right now they probably don't have much if anything else in video games that's making much money. It's the manga/media business that's really bringing it in.

[Michae]

lol just refer to my above post, they are making money and bringing the game to a close, its a common business practice that still allows them to make money and ensure playership in future games. ffxi was not going to run forever, its been nearly a decade and they are bringing to an end any way a good business person would. They would never just turn off the servers lol.

[Alhanelem]

They aren't "bringing the game to a close.' It's not going to be "over" any time real soon. It's not a tactic or a strategy. People are only saying stuff like this because they think SE is trying to be difficult on purpose, and they're not. They might have some semi-clueless people on the business end, but I guarantee you the payment frustrations are not a product of SE going "Hm, we're sick of keeping this game. What can we do to make people leave?"

[chubrocka]

Look at it this way, se can say "we are closing all servers and ending the game in a year". That would cause a major drop off in playership, servers would have to be quickly merged, alot of ppl would be out of work overnight and players would grumble because they were unable to complete everything they wanted to in the game.

If you make it incredibly easy (as they have), ppl can get everything done they wanted to and move on, causing playership to gradually drop, server merging would be slower, some ppl would stay out of hope for new content. Some players would be more willing move on to XIV (which is getting better and better) and whatever their new mmo is going to be because they are satisfied with thier xi experience and want to play other se games due to that experience. They can remove workers off xi to other projects gradually so there would be less lay offs and they could still milk xi for awhile. Then when they finally make the one year announcement they only have a couple servers and a handful of ppl working on xi anyway and its no big deal if it tanks. Its a great business strategy really.

But long story short (too late), yes I believe its the end times for ffxi. Makes me sad, I miss the game and would like to play more, I just have nothing to do and my ls has fell apart due to ppl leaving the game already.

Thank you for your thought. I agree with you. Thank you too for not being childish in the response.

[Elexia]

Honestly, use common sense. XI is about 10 years old and they said they'd run it as long as people are willing to play it, BUT at one point every business comes to terms that "it costs too much to operate versus what we're making in profit" and will slowly phase a product out, MMORPGs are the main service that slowly phases out.

They can't just go:
"Yawn I think we'll end XI today, switch it all off."

That's bad business practice but they do have the right to do so if they felt like it and no one can complain as you agreed to it when you signed up (actually read the terms and eula, they're there for a reason.) I honestly wouldn't mind seeing XI ended as I've played since the start but as long as it is making them money it's highly unlikely they'll end it BUT a lot of recent decision can indeed hurt the playerbase, especially come next month.

[Sparthos]

I'm pretty sure if they wanted the game to end they'd just turn the servers off.

The new payment system is easy. To me it's like having our noob filters back (back in the day when stuff like the dunes, SJ quest etc would 'filter' out some of the bad players). If you can't figure out how to use a credit or debit card to buy crysta, you probably can't figure out all the easy to understand things in game either.

This is completely asinine. Did you bother to turn your brain on when posting this?

The billing change has mucked things up for individuals who have lived in countries that crysta isn't sold in. Nothing like playing and paying for years only for SE to change the rules simply to streamline their own systems for the revival tour of FFXIV.

Who needs money from regions of the world that haven't accepted virtual currency anyway.

Now if you can't buy crysta off the bat, you're forced into an unholy alliance with Click and Buy. Bad enough you could be hit with conversion fees but many banks see this company has shady enough to be put on a blacklist whenever charges are made to them.

Good to know FFXI is on the same level as online gambling though.

Worse, the JP base has no such changes and luxuries that the rest of the world doesn't get. You do however get to overpay SE, deal with a 2nd rate company or quit the game though.

But who am I kidding, this is all a strategem to weed out the noobs who can't pay their bills because SE has made this process so easy that only a complete idiot would be unable to give this company their money every month.

[Alhanelem]

This is completely asinine. Did you bother to turn your brain on when posting this?

The billing change has mucked things up for individuals who have lived in countries that crysta isn't sold in. Nothing like playing and paying for years only for SE to change the rules simply to streamline their own systems for the revival tour of FFXIV.How is it asinine? Yes, we know SE mucked up this billing thing, but you really, really think they did it on purpose and are trying to get people to leave? Because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Yes, they messed up, but they most certainly didn't do it intentionally.

[Sparthos]

How is it asinine? Yes, we know SE mucked up this billing thing, but you really, really think they did it on purpose and are trying to get people to leave? Because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Yes, they messed up, but they most certainly didn't do it intentionally.

I do not believe that this billing fiasco was done on purpose but the poster I quoted made the bold statement that billing is "easy" and that it's a simple process of knowing how to use a credit or debit card.

What an unbelievably dumb statement to make.

[chubrocka]

This is completely asinine. Did you bother to turn your brain on when posting this?

The billing change has mucked things up for individuals who have lived in countries that crysta isn't sold in. Nothing like playing and paying for years only for SE to change the rules simply to streamline their own systems for the revival tour of FFXIV.

Who needs money from regions of the world that haven't accepted virtual currency anyway.

Now if you can't buy crysta off the bat, you're forced into an unholy alliance with Click and Buy. Bad enough you could be hit with conversion fees but many banks see this company has shady enough to be put on a blacklist whenever charges are made to them.

Good to know FFXI is on the same level as online gambling though.

Worse, the JP base has no such changes and luxuries that the rest of the world doesn't get. You do however get to overpay SE, deal with a 2nd rate company or quit the game though.

But who am I kidding, this is all a strategem to weed out the noobs who can't pay their bills because SE has made this process so easy that only a complete idiot would be unable to give this company their money every month.

This thread sint about payments please, ther are about 50 that are.

[Vold]

While they aren't trying to kill the game because that would be stupid to not want tens of millions of dollars handed to you on a silver platter every year for basically free, they also aren't actively trying to prolong it's lifespan. They could do far better, but they won't. It's no secret that SE does not desire to restrict their entire MMO staff(or call them what you will) to one MMO "forever" it's not the nature of the Japanese game developers to want to work on one game for so long. The Japanese are not content with being content like other developers. They are a creative bunch. They innovate constantly across the board on all things technology. But they are human still, and need to make money like the next person. Hence why there's 14 Final Fantasy titles out there to date with a 15th otw for certain, and that's just the main franchise and not counting -2 sequels.

SE openly admits to this style, more or less. Now, some of them don't have a choice on the matter, but the big names certainly do and have made the decision to move on to FFXIV and perhaps this apparent new MMO now. It's a shame and all but like I've said before, I can't blame them. Mostly because FFXI is terribly limited because of the PS2 and it's got to be just as frustrating to them as it is to us that something can't be done or realistically done without taking forever. The PS2 is just a plain shitty console, and PS3 is turning out to be no better for FFXIV.

tl;dr - Trying to kill FFXI? Certainly not. But they are going to milk it for as long as it can last. I hope I am pleasantly proven wrong someday with a surprise re-release version with reworked graphics and all that jazz to prolong its lifespan, but I ain't holding my breathe for it.

[Sparthos]

This thread sint about payments please, ther are about 50 that are.

Just for you, I'll comment on the OP. The fact is that SE is winding down XI.

All of the concessions made in Abyssea were to keep the dwindling base happy as XIV eventually ascended to it's freshly minted spot as flagship SE online title.

What better way to keep us all happy than to turn a harsh and barren desert into an lively oasis of treasure? This game before Abyssea sported the wonderful world of VNMs and the most poorly designed HNM ever brought forth on Vana'diel - Yilbegan.

Things were terrible in FFXI. So bad in fact, SE qualified an NM that drops Darksteel Ingots and Ebony Logs as the centerpiece of a version update.

The plan seemed to be exciting players old and new in XI via Abyssea to then move onto XIV as faith was restored in the company. You could easily "finish up" XI and be content enough to move on to greener pastures.... except the greener pasture turned out to be a no-mans land.

When XIV fell through, the plan backfired. You had individuals once again clinging to XI because the new game failed except SE doesn't seem to have any intention of giving XI any new expansions due to PS2 limitations and the fact that money is best spent on a new game rather than a nearly decade-old one.

So now we sit in limbo. We know what SE has planned for a good while out and no expansions are in the works. This is either a surprise designed to excite individuals are a subtle way of saying that XI is done in terms of world expansion and new places to explore.

With how long it took to hammer out WOTG and how devoid of content the 3 side packs were, it's not exactly shocking to have little faith that no further expansions are being designed.

[Alhanelem]

I do not believe that this billing fiasco was done on purpose but the poster I quoted made the bold statement that billing is "easy" and that it's a simple process of knowing how to use a credit or debit card.

What an unbelievably dumb statement to make.
There's nothing dumb about it. Billing is not as "easy" as you think it is. Especially in this case, there's contracts to hammer out, customer service to manage (or fail to manage). "Knowing how to use a credit or debit card" is up to a consumer. The business has a lot of backend stuff to deal with that the customer never even sees. Think a little harder about how things work before you go around calling people 'dumb.'


The fact is that SE is winding down XI. That's not a fact a all, and in fact they're not winding it down but turning things up.. They're doing a lot to work within the constraints they have and I'm impressed with that. However, sooner or later, they're going to have to address some key problems such as the consoles with the restricted disk space in order to make new content more original.

They can't afford to "wind it down" until, at a bare minimum, XIV is taking in money. And it's still completely uncertain when or if that will happen.

[chubrocka]

Just for you, I'll comment on the OP. The fact is that SE is winding down XI.

All of the concessions made in Abyssea were to keep the dwindling base happy as XIV eventually ascended to it's freshly minted spot as flagship SE online title.

What better way to keep us all happy than to turn a harsh and barren desert into an lively oasis of treasure? This game before Abyssea sported the wonderful world of VNMs and the most poorly designed HNM ever brought forth on Vana'diel - Yilbegan.

Things were terrible in FFXI. So bad in fact, SE qualified an NM that drops Darksteel Ingots and Ebony Logs as the centerpiece of a version update.

The plan seemed to be exciting players old and new in XI via Abyssea to then move onto XIV as faith was restored in the company. You could easily "finish up" XI and be content enough to move on to greener pastures.... except the greener pasture turned out to be a no-mans land.

When XIV fell through, the plan backfired. You had individuals once again clinging to XI because the new game failed except SE doesn't seem to have any intention of giving XI any new expansions due to PS2 limitations and the fact that money is best spent on a new game rather than a nearly decade-old one.

So now we sit in limbo. We know what SE has planned for a good while out and no expansions are in the works. This is either a surprise designed to excite individuals are a subtle way of saying that XI is done in terms of world expansion and new places to explore.

With how long it took to hammer out WOTG and how devoid of content the 3 side packs were, it's not exactly shocking to have little faith that no further expansions are being designed.

I agree with you. Im just not likeing the fact that im gonna have to start playing on a PC. for FFXIV. Ive enjoyed the 360 now so much, Playing on my big ass screen and its nice graphics. I guess if i had the option to play 14 on a console................ Im gonna have to conform lol.

Anyone know if and when there will be a console release?

[Alhanelem]

Anyone know if and when there will be a console release?It's already on consoles, but hopefully not for much longer. SE keeps on proving to the world that MMOs are not meant for consoles.

But why does that have to be a bad thing? If you really want "the console experience" you can hook a PC up to a TV, use a game pad, and the experience is no different. Why do people have to act as if the only way to play PC games is sitting at a desk with the screen right in front of you?

[Rexen]

That's not a fact a all, and in fact they're not winding it down but turning things up.. They're doing a lot to work within the constraints they have and I'm impressed with that. However, sooner or later, they're going to have to address some key problems such as the consoles with the restricted disk space in order to make new content more original.

They can't afford to "wind it down" until, at a bare minimum, XIV is taking in money. And it's still completely uncertain when or if that will happen.
And if you read the rest of his post you'll see that he answers that. I completly agree with what Sparthos has said, the final Abyssea expansion was released not that long after FFXIV, and people completed their things in Abyssea a few months after, by that time people would have moved to FFXIV, and a lot did. But like he said, it backfired. FFXIV didn't do near as well as they planned and now they're trying to salvage it. They made the forums to find out exactly what the player base wants and asking so much which direction they would like the developers to go in.

I think that the plan was to slowly entice people to move to FFXIV, when they didn't happen they're trying to make people stick to FFXI while they fix FFXIV to be more acceptable. I bet when they start charging for the game they'll do something to truly end FFXI and have people migrate over.

[Michae]

No idea on console release date yet, but I personally like the pc for play, I use it for xi and xiv. As it stands right now they are making sweeping changes to xiv and the ppl behind those changes are doing a fantastic job. Most of the players who have stuck with xiv with hopes of improvement tip their hats to these ppl.

As for a big screen, I just run a wire from my pc to my tv, I get all the niceness of a pc on a tv screen, and even when im on my monitor I have a 30" widescreen anyway and when ur that close its more than enough.

The naysayers who still want too poopoo xiv need to give it another try. XI was horrid when it was first released too and it got better as time went on. Granted not as bad as xiv but it was still pretty much a steaming pile. Just dont be prepared for the ease xi has us used too. The exp isnt as easy come, there are no exp bonus rings or pages or anything of the sort beyond leves and those rewards are being drastically adjusted to prevent power lvling.

What I told my bored ls was that they may as well spend $25 get xiv now to get in on the bottom floor and play while its free (both in currency and in trolls) since xi is winding down anyway. Well after I did that most of them switched and are now full time xiv players so my ls in xi is dead lol. On the brightside tho is we all still play together in xiv.

[Michae]

It's already on consoles, but hopefully not for much longer. SE keeps on proving to the world that MMOs are not meant for consoles.

But why does that have to be a bad thing? If you really want "the console experience" you can hook a PC up to a TV, use a game pad, and the experience is no different. Why do people have to act as if the only way to play PC games is sitting at a desk with the screen right in front of you?

lol xiv is not on console yet

[chubrocka]

It's already on consoles, but hopefully not for much longer. SE keeps on proving to the world that MMOs are not meant for consoles.

But why does that have to be a bad thing? If you really want "the console experience" you can hook a PC up to a TV, use a game pad, and the experience is no different. Why do people have to act as if the only way to play PC games is sitting at a desk with the screen right in front of you?

"HMMMMM 1817 posts on here already, man you have a lot to say ^^^^^^^^"



Wish it was more constructive though.
All this poster does is seem cause conflict and such lol

So you say its on console? what one? Ps3 release wasnt done as far as I know,

To answer you. I Dont want to play on PC, its my choice to use a console. WTF do you care.

[Sparthos]

I think the problem with "XI was as bad as XIV at launch" comparison is that comparing a new generation MMO to a dinosaur like XI assumes that the launch conditions were the same in both instances.

It isnt.

XI launched during an era where mistakes could be made and content designed to be infuriating because the target market of MMOs were individuals who could take huge grinds, had large amounts of time to play and were willing to put up with nonsense from the developers. It also helped that the competition wasn't nearly as crowded as it is now.

Look at XI through CoP and you'll see a track record of the developers writing the players off, dismissing their input as garbage while the companies vision of the game continued to expand. You got the crown jewel of FFXI during this era (CoPs storyline) but you also saw an exodus of players as SE stonewalled on user-friendliness.

Some never came back. Even when TOAU turned things into a more "friendly" XI, the game never got back the initial crowds that joined at the height of the game.

Flash forward to XIV and you see some of the same issues repeated. SE put the game through tests, players voiced concerns that the product wasn't up to par yet someone at SE decided to ignore those issues and launch the game anyway.... and here we are.

If XIV manages to overcome its terrible launch, it'd be one of the only MMOs to ever do so. While it is true that SE has enough money to potentially make history, wooing players back to the game in addition to solidifying a stable base will be the true test for the game.

I think the greatest fear is that SE manages to pull XIV out of a nosedive only to be permanently stunted by the original failure.

[Michae]

Never said xi was as bad as xiv. Reread that, I said it was bad as well, not as bad but still bad. As in lack of content, bugs and such.

If ppl dont wanna give xiv a second chance, fine with me, dont really want/need that kind of player anyway in an mmo, hence why i dont play WoW and barely play xi anymore.

SE just jumped the gun in release and are working on repairs. BUT they are doing a fantastic job on those repairs and their work should not go unnoticed. By the time we have console release it should be a good well rounded game that ppl will enjoy. Those of us who have been with it since beta are finally relaxing that it wont be axed soon.

[Michae]

"HMMMMM 1817 posts on here already, man you have a lot to say ^^^^^^^^"




All this poster does is cause conflict and such lol.

So you say its on console? what one? Ps3 release wasnt done as far as I know,

To answer you. I Dont want to play on PC, its my choice to use a console. WTF do you care.

Yeah hes a forums troll/negative nancy, best to just ignore.

XIV is going to be for ps3, as xbox wants to get away from mmo gaming as massive as xiv they refused to support it. (although this story is up for debate, thats just the common idea of why its not on 360)

[chubrocka]

Yeah hes a forums troll/negative nancy, best to just ignore.

XIV is going to be for ps3, as xbox wants to get away from mmo gaming as massive as xiv they refused to support it. (although this story is up for debate, thats just the common idea of why its not on 360)


I looked forward to the supposed release date on ps3 and when it didnt happen.................... I sure would like to be assured that it will. Do you by chance have any site to read on that progress?

[Runespider]

Abyssea came shortly before FFXIV was launched, with that they basically added pure oxygen to a burning candle. The idea was to burn through the content and complete the game and have it's userbase emigrate over within a set time frame. It is totally impossible to shut down an MMO even if you want to, you risk angering the playerbase and putting out bad vibes to potential ones on future games. The current system is perfect, milk money out of it giving players everything they want while slowly boring everyone and letting them all complete all their goals easily. Boredom does their work for them, they are even building up XIV slowly to make sure they don't emigrate over too quickly...it's a gradual process.

The sad fact is, when they made FFXIV the playerbase the game was going to get (or at least the majority of it) is FFXI players, they just cannot live side by side. Most MMO players do not want to play more than 1 MMO, no matter how casual they make them, both games are direct competition for each other. As long as XI is a fair success, FFXIV cannot be..one game will canabalise the players from the other.

FFXI is not future proof and has little ability to replace old users quitting due to rl stuff, that's why they would kill off a product that still makes money. It's not about losing customers, it's about making them move to your other title which you hope has a better ability to attract paying customers in the future.

FFXI has 2 years left in it, tops. Even the last listed update is slated as "the last stand" lol

[Sparthos]

Never said xi was as bad as xiv. Reread that, I said it was bad as well, not as bad but still bad. As in lack of content, bugs and such.

If ppl dont wanna give xiv a second chance, fine with me, dont really want/need that kind of player anyway in an mmo, hence why i dont play WoW and barely play xi anymore.

SE just jumped the gun in release and are working on repairs. BUT they are doing a fantastic job on those repairs and their work should not go unnoticed. By the time we have console release it should be a good well rounded game that ppl will enjoy. Those of us who have been with it since beta are finally relaxing that it wont be axed soon.

You say you don't need (or dont care) for individuals to give XIV a second chance but indeed you do... unless you desire seeing the game reach a point where SE decides to no longer throw money at the game because they aren't making a profit? The doomsday scenario as it were.

We're at the point in XIV where SE has decided that the money spent fixing the game will result in eventual returns when people start paying and new blood decides to give the game a chance. The console launch will be crucial because it'll be SEs moment to launch the game correctly and use the buzz to encourage individuals to pick up PC copies.

Hopefully, they can encourage gaming media to re-review the game and further encourage sales but my point was more that SE put all their eggs in one basket, gutting XI all to make XIV work and it's going to take more than repairs to make it competitive with all the MMOs being churned out left, right and center.

XIV does not have the luxuries that XI had at launch. It competes with an aging WoW, Diablo III, GW2, TERA, Aion among other smaller MMOs and normal console games that offer online play in one form or another.

It's pretty clear XI is being slowly put out to pasture and unless a new expansion materializes itself, the content known as "The Last Stand" may very well be verbatim for the future of the game.

[chubrocka]

Abyssea came shortly before FFXIV was launched, with that they basically added pure oxygen to a burning candle. The idea was to burn through the content and complete the game and have it's userbase emigrate over within a set time frame. It is totally impossible to shut down an MMO even if you want to, you risk angering the playerbase and putting out bad vibes to potential ones on future games. The current system is perfect, milk money out of it giving players everything they want while slowly boring everyone and letting them all complete all their goals easily. Boredom does their work for them, they are even building up XIV slowly to make sure they don't emigrate over too quickly...it's a gradual process.

The sad fact is, when they made FFXIV the playerbase the game was going to get (or at least the majority of it) is FFXI players, they just cannot live side by side. Most MMO players do not want to play more than 1 MMO, no matter how casual they make them, both games are direct competition for each other. As long as XI is a fair success, FFXIV cannot be..one game will canabalise the players from the other.

FFXI is not future proof and has little ability to replace old users quitting due to rl stuff, that's why they would kill off a product that still makes money. It's not about losing customers, it's about making them move to your other title which you hope has a better ability to attract paying customers in the future.

FFXI has 2 years left in it, tops. Even the last listed update is slated as "the last stand" lol

I think you're right

[chubrocka]

It's pretty clear XI is being slowly put out to pasture and unless a new expansion materializes itself, the content known as "The Last Stand" may very well be verbatim for the future of the game.

Umm ive missed that, what is "the last stand" Sparthos, where did you read about that. Im not gonna deny I miss a lot lol, Im old, what can I say.

[Horadrim]

My thoughts? I'm sick of these threads.

They're not "trying to end this." They're making money. There's no reason to do anything like that until they have something else that is making more money, and right now they probably don't have much if anything else in video games that's making much money. It's the manga/media business that's really bringing it in.

Manga and Anime are kind of lackluster industry these days -- particularly anime.

That aside... I agree.

Gamers are so prone to sensationalism, its ridiculous.

[Sparthos]

Umm ive missed that, what is "the last stand" Sparthos, where did you read about that. Im not gonna deny I miss a lot lol, Im old, what can I say.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4937-The-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-roadmap-for-the-twelve-month-period-commencing-April-2011

The roadmap going into '12.

Between October '11 and March '12, content dubbed "The Last Stand" will be introduced to FFXI.

[SpankWustler]

Im wondering your thoughts?

I'm currently thinking about what to do for dinner, because this thread is pretty pointless.

My conclusion is that since I have some left-over red sauce in the fridge, I'll just boil some dried noodles and put together a simple salad made of assorted greens.

[Teraniku]

If XIV manages to overcome its terrible launch, it'd be one of the only MMOs to ever do so.


Actually the Only MMO to survive and actually grow out of a bad launch was EVE online, but it had the advantage of being one of the only few options of it's specific genre. (Only competition at the time was Jumpgate)

[chubrocka]

I'm currently thinking about what to do for dinner, because this thread is pretty pointless.

My conclusion is that since I have some left-over red sauce in the fridge, I'll just boil some dried noodles and put together a simple salad made of assorted greens.

And you replied then why?

[SpankWustler]

And you replied then why?

Well, you asked for my thoughts!

[Runespider]

If XIV manages to overcome its terrible launch, it'd be one of the only MMOs to ever do so.

XIV could do it, most XI players are addicted sheep. If they bore them enough on this game but know they still like the core game they could make XIV similar enough to get them all to move over to it, it will be hard but it's possible if done slowly.

It means slowly killing XI and keeping XIV free to make it easier to just wander on it now and then while making it more and more like old XI to blend the differences but they are doing all that anway.

[Panthera]

I don't believe you believe SE is intentionally trying to end FFXI. If they were, they'd make it free to play, or just shut down the servers. In other words, if they wanted to end FFXI, they'd end FFXI.

What you're asking isn't really a question. It's a statement. You're criticizing the direction the game has been on, and continues on. You're saying its off-putting to hard-core players seeking a real challenge. You're saying that they failed to come out with enough fully realized expansions to keep players.

I agree with you. I think that's why some players aren't going through billing; it's just not worth the hassle and or risk.

I do wonder though. The payment fiasco not withstanding, does FFXI have enough subscribers to justify developing a new full-blown expansion? Or has SE been waiting for level caps to peak again before proceeding with new full blown expanions? I'm sure the mini-expansions have been extremely cost effective for them to develop, but I wonder if there comes a point where it's just not enough to sustain interest in the game. Everquest is still going, I wonder if FFXI will see that kind of success, or will it become the next Star Wars Galaxies.

[Quetzacoatl]

inb4threadnuke

[Panthera]

XIV could do it, most XI players are addicted sheep.

In 2 weeks, we'll see if that's true or not.


inb4threadnuke

I don't think they'll kill this one. It's critical, but I don't think critical enough for them to push the red button. After all, "Perspectives" is still up, and that one is far more confrontational.

[Alhanelem]

lol xiv is not on console yet
XI not XIV

[chubrocka]

XI not XIV



Just goes to show you a person with almost 2000 posts doesnt read them lol

[Alhanelem]

I do read them. Sometimes I #&*^$ up and misread them. EXCUUuuuuuSE ME. I don't make fun of you when you mess up.

[Olor]

So... the OP thinks that just cause they don't like abyssea SE is trying to kill the game? Am I right?

Well, this is one paying customer that would have never come back without abyssea. I don't get people who think that old XI, which was nothing but horrible grinds and timesinks was "so fun" but new XI, which allows people to play a moderate amount and make progress "is boring."

Anyway, if Abyssea was meant to kill off XI, it sure is backfiring by bringing back players like me who weren't interested in grinding in six-man parties for two years before having a chance to do anything fun with the rest of the (top heavy) playerbase.

[Leonlionheart]

So in this thread people are saying that SE is spending money making fresh content that isn't just mind numbing (ZNM I see you) and communicating with the community for the first time in 10 years because they are trying to end the game.

Uh huh.

[Runespider]

Anyway, if Abyssea was meant to kill off XI, it sure is backfiring by bringing back players like me who weren't interested in grinding in six-man parties for two years before having a chance to do anything fun with the rest of the (top heavy) playerbase.

Almost everyone likes Abyssea, the point was not that Abyssea is fun and easy for everyone. The point was that the way they did Abyssea has killed any long-term life FFXI would of had, the lack of content after Abyssea just cemented the fact.

[Sparthos]

So in this thread people are saying that SE is spending money making fresh content that isn't just mind numbing (ZNM I see you) and communicating with the community for the first time in 10 years because they are trying to end the game.

Uh huh.

Serious question:

What is new about what we're getting post-Abyssea?

I think we can all agree that Abyssea was a complete success barring some random QQ that relics went down the drain and HNMs can't be botted but what's new?

Voidwatch? It's ANNMs all over again. Random drops coming off forced spawned mobs that everyone gets an item to participate in. Worse than ZNM in the sense that drops aren't fixed but better than VNM in that there are no "fake" pops.

Walk of Echoes? Quasi-failure of an event that requires lots of individuals in order to reasonably farm. Looking at a revamp coming, the event should gain popularity however with how simple Empyrean weapons are, people might very well gloss over it again.

TLS/Dungeon Crawling? This has yet to be revealed and very well looks like new content however we haven't seen it. Im personally hoping for Nyzul II: Electric Boogaloo.

In terms of storyline/lore content, that front has been dead since the end of WOTG. I'll give SE their props that the storytelling and animations were top notch but it took nearly 3 years to reach the end of Wings... yeah, nuff said.

ACP/MKE/ASA were all fanfic tier stories that only avoided complete failure because of the neat gear attached to completing. There are quests that did a better job of telling a story that came with normal version updates.

Beyond that, we're looking at fixes to old events and retooling of zones to handle lvl99 players. 75 endgame is a smouldering pile of ash that might or might not be revived for lvl99 endgame.

As much as Abyssea was a success, I wouldn't call the stuff we're getting fresh.

[Olor]

Almost everyone likes Abyssea, the point was not that Abyssea is fun and easy for everyone. The point was that the way they did Abyssea has killed any long-term life FFXI would of had, the lack of content after Abyssea just cemented the fact.

How did it kill long-term life? It still takes time to get equips for jobs, level all the jobs etc. Not to mention that now people like me who never had a job at cap before want to try older content like campaign, dynamis, and besieged out.

AND they are adding new stuff in. Just cause people haven't caught on to voidwatch yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't content. It is there and doable. The fact is many players haven't done even a fraction of what they would like to do in the game yet.

The 10 per cent most hardcore players and the 10 per cent who have been playing non stop for 10 years, yeah, I could see them getting bored. But when I look at people in my LS (some who don't even have their first EVER job to cap yet) I don't see a lot of people who are "running out of content." Heck I know for myself I won't even have scratched the surface in terms of things I'd like to try by this time next year.

As for long term life - it isn't like Abyssea is stopping them from adding new expansions etc. Clearly some other consideration is stopping them - whether it be a lack of financial sense in doing so, or PS2 limitations or something else.

The game has already had a "long term life" and honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if it goes offline one day. I also wouldn't be shocked if they keep it running on at least one server for years into the future - as long as the cost of upkeep is lower than $$$ they can bring in with it. And I bet people will still play it.

/shrugs

Abyssea, if anything, lengthened the amount of time the game will be online, because, lets be honest here, the vast majority of MMO players don't want to spend hours seeking for a party and hours grinding to make minimal progress - especially in a game where 90 per cent or more of the population is at max level. It just isn't sellable.

Abyssea, and the promise that you can get to 90 in a reasonable amount of time (thus being able to do events with friends) is a good way to keep a trickle of players coming into the game as people who have been playing it for 5-10 years leave.

I mean, crikes, it doesn't matter what a dev does, people are going to change and leave their game. It is just a fact. What needs to happen in order for the game to stay solvent is you need to be keeping the attrition rate low by bringing in new blood or making it easy for players who quit to return and catch up.

[Michae]

I do read them. Sometimes I #&*^$ up and misread them. EXCUUuuuuuSE ME. I don't make fun of you when you mess up.

yeah u do lol

[Michae]

Abyssea, if anything, lengthened the amount of time the game will be online, because, lets be honest here, the vast majority of MMO players don't want to spend hours seeking for a party and hours grinding to make minimal progress - especially in a game where 90 per cent or more of the population is at max level. It just isn't sellable.

Abyssea, and the promise that you can get to 90 in a reasonable amount of time (thus being able to do events with friends) is a good way to keep a trickle of players coming into the game as people who have been playing it for 5-10 years leave.

The problem is that more than 90% of the player base will be max lvl on all jobs and there isnt enough content outside of spamming NM for ToM trials to keep up. And it was not that hard to grind a job up pre-aby, I had 4 merited 75s and I was a part time player. It just took some dedication and knowledge about your job. If it was known u sucked at ur job then no there were no pt invites, if u had a rep for being good then ppl would jump at getting u. Same with endgame content, if ur ls or random players knew u could go in and tear it up properly then u were able into some good statics that didnt insist u be there for 7 hrs a day 6 days a week like alot of aby statics know are. Its just all on perspective really.

Like I said Im sad to see this game go, but its headed out the door. They really arent putting much money into it, they are just changing a few colors and calling maps new or adding a new name and a new drop to a nm and calling it new and ppl rush for it and get it in no time and then are done and stuck with what to do now

[Michae]

I looked forward to the supposed release date on ps3 and when it didnt happen.................... I sure would like to be assured that it will. Do you by chance have any site to read on that progress?

You can always keep up with whats going on on the lodestone which is the ffxiv official site. No idea about when ps3 release will be yet, they are trying to fix it as much as they can before they have another huge launch attempt. But they are listening to those of us who play, as the xiv forum is alot more constructive than the ffxi one is, and really communicating with players. Basically us PCers are gamma testers for the relaunch. But from starting the game before open beta and still playing I can see a bright future for xiv if they stay on the course they are on. The next 2 updates are going to be massive and it already sounds as if there is an expansion in the works. Although my guess is it wont be a true expansion, it will just be considered a continuation of the orig game. SE has some good devs on the xiv side.

[Leonlionheart]

It's still new, and it still costs money is the point. They wouldn't be making new graphics for gear/enemies, which is probably the most expensive part of new content other than new zones, if they were trying to destroy the game.

[Atomic_Skull]

I'm pretty sure if they wanted the game to end they'd just turn the servers off.


They wouldn't because they want us all to switch to FFXIV.

[Atomic_Skull]

Actually the Only MMO to survive and actually grow out of a bad launch was EVE online, but it had the advantage of being one of the only few options of it's specific genre. (Only competition at the time was Jumpgate)

It also has a company that committed to keeping the game technologically current. They do periodic engine and graphics updates so it doesn't fall behind the curve.

[Atomic_Skull]

If ppl dont wanna give xiv a second chance, fine with me, dont really want/need that kind of player anyway in an mmo, hence why i dont play WoW and barely play xi anymore.


It's not just that FFXIV is terribad (which is very much is). It's also that it's a blander and less interesting copy of Vana'diel populated by blander and less interesting copies of Vana'diel's races.

[Olor]

The problem is that more than 90% of the player base will be max lvl on all jobs

When? I don't see it happening any time soon. Most people I know try to actually gear jobs.

Sure you can level them all up, so what? Are you one of those players who thinks EXP is the game?

[svengalis]

If they didn't want us to play 1. They wouldn't have made this forum and 2. They would not give us any new content. The recent changes are what is pretty much becoming a standard in all mmos these days. Is final fantasy XI the only mmo you have played TC? Also if you remember back their original plan was to have us at 99 cap by last year but of course after xiv bombed they extended it to 2012.

[Michae]

When? I don't see it happening any time soon. Most people I know try to actually gear jobs.

Sure you can level them all up, so what? Are you one of those players who thinks EXP is the game?

lol not at all, ive been playing for years and exp is the least part of the game, u completely missed what I was saying, reread it

[Michae]

Oh well high dead horse this is stick, I really hope Im wrong and the game gets new content and expansions and I have to eat crow cause frankly I really do like the game, I just dont see much of a future for it at this point. But I think I have wasted enough time on this debate as well, have fun discussing ^^

[Babygyrl]

You know, I think everyone seems to forget.. the population of FFXI was dwindling WAY before abyessea and the Level cap increase announcement was even made.. I mean dont you guys remember when the announcement was made it was a one night FFXifest event that was only held in japan? They didn't even have one in America that year.. and still haven't since. A lot of people were disappointed with Wotg and Campaign! Not to Mention, a lot of competition and such has dwindled due to lack of Gil Sellers playing the game.. That im sure was a BIG chunk of the game population because face it, people are lazy dont want to farm there own crap.. and paying for a service to do it for you was a gold mine... But since China made it illegal to Sell ingame items for real money.. and FFXi really did a good job fighting the Sellers off in later years... but it also hurt them becuase they lost a lot of profits from the gill sellers..I think abyssesa was also kind of added for that reason.. Easy money, easy leveling, no need to pay for people to do it for you..

Like most people have said, I dont think SE is trying to kill the game, It is just naturally wearing down, its been past its prime long before aby or even wotg.. A lot of people also began leaving for WoW because content there is Easier, Especially leveling.. and there development team is much more user friendly then ffxi from what i have heard... IF anyhting Abyssea, this Forum / twitter and development communication has been Too little- TOO LATE to save the game from its demise.. NOt to Mention technology is constantly evolving, along with graphics and engines and etc, and people just want to be with the most up to date graphics/speed/ enjoyment of the times.. So people are going to move on weather content is there or not.

[Elexia]

It's still new, and it still costs money is the point. They wouldn't be making new graphics for gear/enemies, which is probably the most expensive part of new content other than new zones, if they were trying to destroy the game.

It costs them a bit to produce stuff for FFXIV and they are making zero on the game monthly and more than likely very minimal box sales...

If the PS3 version doesn't kick off well, they'll no doubt shut it down which means they aren't exactly against the idea of ending something if certain circumstances call for it and if XI becomes no longer viable to produce for, they'll end it no problem.

[Neonii]

Never said xi was as bad as xiv. Reread that, I said it was bad as well, not as bad but still bad. As in lack of content, bugs and such.

If ppl dont wanna give xiv a second chance, fine with me, dont really want/need that kind of player anyway in an mmo, hence why i dont play WoW and barely play xi anymore.

SE just jumped the gun in release and are working on repairs. BUT they are doing a fantastic job on those repairs and their work should not go unnoticed. By the time we have console release it should be a good well rounded game that ppl will enjoy. Those of us who have been with it since beta are finally relaxing that it wont be axed soon.

I will wait for the console release.

[Leonlionheart]

It costs them a bit to produce stuff for FFXIV and they are making zero on the game monthly and more than likely very minimal box sales...

If the PS3 version doesn't kick off well, they'll no doubt shut it down which means they aren't exactly against the idea of ending something if certain circumstances call for it and if XI becomes no longer viable to produce for, they'll end it no problem.

They predict that, since XIV isn't limited by certain unchangeable mechanics (Hi 2 u PS2!), they can turn it into a cash cow. Similar to how XI had a shittastic start then turned into the cash cow that brought us 10$x3 Mini-expansions and 10$x3 Abyssea.

[Sesh]

Everything that sparth has said is spot on. Let's look at it this way (keep in mind SE is the 9th largest video game company in the world they have plenty of money they're not hurting to the extent that some ppl seem to think)

> SE creates XIV;

> SE has a big announcement about XIV the future of XI and the level cap;

> SE makes a battle plan to start XIV off on a wonderful high and ride out XIs cash flow while they work on developing XIV;

> SE releases abyssea to keep XI players pleased, get a lil extra cash and eventually have them try XIV out while still continuing to play XI (remember this was there vision for us to play both games at the same time happily, its a quote somewhere to lazy to find it though);

> SE puts XI on a skeleton crew staff because in their company meetings and projections XIV profits will surge and programmers will be needed on XI;

> SE releases XIV;

> SE "Fails";

> SE for some reason still doesn't know how to make a proper MMO probably because the ppl in charge don't actually play MMOs they just make decisions;

> SE still makes no attempts to market and advertise XIV or XI (have you seen a XI commercial other than 8 years ago anywhere but japan? Or a XIV commercial / website with adds for one of the games?) I haven't;

> SE realizes its plan to migrate the XI community to XIV has failed;

> SE try's to save face and adds a forum where players can be heard;

> SE replies "no" or "too difficult or too much work" in one form or another to 9/10 threads responded to (this is due to a limited staff I'm sure which could be double or tripled easily if they had the desire, because they have the means, the money and the capability to do so)

> SE adds click and buy

Now to me it all seems pretty lame but who knows really you would have to work at SE to find out. Right now its all speculation and we can only deal with the facts/rumors presented to us. I think however XI only has a few years left, but we'll see I suppose.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sesh]

Now as to "fresh content" this is my opinion.

Next major version update will include the following things:

Level Cap Increase - Not bad, took a while but everyone will be happy about getting stronger

In-game Systems

Voidwatch (part II) - Nothing exciting nobody really cares it will be new NM's with the same old system
Walk of Echoes revamping - Not new or fresh just adjusted it seems fun to think about but it still wont be popular
New GoV areas - More low level areas to put super high level mobs in to kill random adventurers / and or more GoV in zones like fei'yin to kill ghosts... who exps on ghosts honestly?
Dynamis revamping p2 - Dynamis has it's appeal and with the announcement about the new AF stat upgrades things might get interesting, however its not enough to tide your avid FFXI player over
New treasure casket areas - Seems lame and monotonous
New battlefields - Will they do it right? Will it be new or recycled? Probably recycled.
Daily reward system - Like what? Log in for 14 days straight and get a glavoid shell or something? For most players this will be an afterthought


Abyssea Adjustments - Not "fresh" but aby adjustments are always welcome and nice

Job Adjustments - < /psyched about war direction, overall the manifesto stuff seems to be going over well cept I think thf's are pissssssssssssed? Overall though you have to have content to use your new abilities on so *fingers crossed* that we get to.

Monsters

Redistribution - Boring unless it's something crazy we don't see coming like fafnir in East Ron.
NM adjustments - We'll see what they have planned it could be fresh possibly


Fellows

Level cap increase to 90 - No one Cares
New summonable areas - Unless it's Abyssea no one cares


Missions and Quests

Magian trial additions and adjustments - More NMs/weather mobs/or ex items to collect....... /sigh
Quest reward tweaks - Nothing special


Crafting

Synergy: recipes to augment existing gear - Interesting possibly not exciting though
Synthesis: skill cap adjustment - Awesome for players that like to craft I'm sure


Now these are just my observations and I know I don't speak for everyone, but let's be honest really the two things on that whole list that you even give a damn about are the Abyssea and Job adjustments. Everything else is most likely a meh or that's kind of cool I guess... certainly nothing that makes you excited or makes you wait on the edge of your seat until the fantastic update arrives.

[Revanchist]

First there was the forced change of payment options to Clickandbuy or PlaySpan.

Second, there was the maintenance with Clickandbuy a couple of days ago.

Third... this:


Earlier today, it was discovered that Square Enix had filed for a trademark of the name "Square" which cites the many methods of video game publishing we see in the video game industry today. It seems Square Enix is pursuing a re-branding effort as "Square". Thanks to users on the web, including deanbmmv of Reddit, we've discovered that the Square trademark looks very similar in description to the trademarking of Square Enix.


"Square" Trademark: Computer game software; video game software; sound recordings in the form of optical discs, magnetic discs and semiconductor ROMs featuring music and fictional stories; audio visual recordings in the form of optical discs, magnetic discs and semiconductor ROMs featuring music and animated fictional stories; prerecorded compact discs featuring music; prerecorded video discs featuring music and animated fictional stories; mouse pads; straps for cellular phones; video game controllers; downloadable musical sound recordings; downloadable ring tones for mobile phones; downloadable wallpaper graphics for mobile phones; downloadable electronic publications in the nature of magazines, journals and newsletters in the field of computer games and video games. Providing on-line computer games; providing on-line video games; providing information on computer game strategies and video game strategies via computer networks and global communication networks; providing information on entertainment in the field of computer games, video games, card games, animated cartoons, comics, novels and magazines; providing on-line non-downloadable comics; providing on-line non-downloadable magazines, journals and newsletters in the field of computer games, video games, cartoons and general entertainment.

Square Enix spawned from a company merger between Square Soft, and Enix. Square Enix also owns Taito Corporation (Eidos), which has been compiled into Square Enix Europe.



Perhaps a future press release will clarify this recent trademark filing, until then keep calling them Sqeenix


Source: Square Enix To Drop "Enix" From Their Name, In A Re-branding Effort (http://www.yourgamercards.net/index.php/news.html/_/news/newsother/square-enix-to-drop-enix-from-their-name-in-a-re-branding-effort-r935)

Well... this doesn't look promising for SE does it?

[chubrocka]

I wanted to say thank you to all who have given great thought and insight to this thread. As i intended it was to make/want SE to hear from us that we need FFXI to remain and that with some more effort on there part they can do a "ROCKY" moment and bring it back. Advertise, promote, make change and increase. This game doesnt have to die, its great. Lets just hope the Skeleton crew thats we think is left is reading this and can push it to the top???!!!!!

[ShadowHeart]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29343/QA_Square_Enix_SVP_Tanaka_On_Developing_Huge_Mainstream_MMO_Final_Fantasy_XIV.php


says it all right there they wanted people to go from here to 14 but of course play both but mainly to cease development on here and to contour to their next evolutionary state of ffxiv ... but it hasn't panned out yet and may never to reach the heights of this game in its peak days

do they want to kill this game no but they did want to put it on the back burner and not have to waste the time and man hours to continually upgrade it as its main game while 14 sits around and they pull their hair out.

[chubrocka]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29343/QA_Square_Enix_SVP_Tanaka_On_Developing_Huge_Mainstream_MMO_Final_Fantasy_XIV.php


says it all right there they wanted people to go from here to 14 but of course play both but mainly to cease development on here and to contour to their next evolutionary state of ffxiv ... but it hasn't panned out yet and may never to reach the heights of this game in its peak days

do they want to kill this game no but they did want to put it on the back burner and not have to waste the time and man hours to continually upgrade it as its main game while 14 sits around and they pull their hair out.

Thanks for posting this. Lets hope something happens huh!

[Revanchist]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29343/QA_Square_Enix_SVP_Tanaka_On_Developing_Huge_Mainstream_MMO_Final_Fantasy_XIV.php


says it all right there they wanted people to go from here to 14 but of course play both but mainly to cease development on here and to contour to their next evolutionary state of ffxiv ... but it hasn't panned out yet and may never to reach the heights of this game in its peak days

If SE thought gamers would abandon their characters they've created and nurtured in XI, for the shambolic mess that is XIV, they've got rocks for brains.


do they want to kill this game no but they did want to put it on the back burner and not have to waste the time and man hours to continually upgrade it as its main game while 14 sits around and they pull their hair out.

With what SE's doing now, forcing gamers into this payment option before ensuring that the methods they've made available for non JP gamers are legally accepted/available in every country (and yet let their JP gamer base opt to choose between either of the two as well as continuing with direct payment), it does seem to some that is what SE wants to do.

Of course, if they really wanted people to flock to XIV, they'd of released a complete game, not one with multiple inherent flaws... which is still ftp 11 months after it's release (sucking more money from SE the longer it is ftp)! At least FFXI recouped the cost in making that within 6 months of it's release...

[BurnNotice]

I strongly disagree that SE is trying to "End" FFXI. Instead, they've talked about expanding the game even further beyond its current limits. Don't let the level cap increase and easy leveling process fool you into thinking that the game has lost its fun-factor and only catering to a specific audience. The changes, refinements, and implementations being shown this year is to have us read for the big battles ahead of us.

Granted, I am not an SE/FFXI Insider or anything, but the development team made it very clear that there will be some big installments that will not only give current, loyal players a bang for their buck, but it will even bring back the retirees to the game with an appetite for adventuring and fighting for a very long time.

At level 99 (or 100) cap, we still have to face Beastmen, HNMs, storylines that far exceeds our cap. Think back when we finally hit lvl 75. Didn't things get a bit more interesting? Wasn't the significance of being capped at 75 was us not only grow into our jobs, but to perfect it by building skills, knowledge, and be the expert in that job?

For the people that have all their jobs at 90, how many of them have perfected their job(s)? This game has never been about lvling to 90 and falling out because everyone has been hitting it, its been about team development with people who are experts in their chosen job(s) that understands the battlefield they've entered with their comrades. Fights like Pandemonium Warden, Absolute Virtue, Odin Prime, and any lvl 85+ HNM at our lvl 75 time are prime examples. We will be facing these kind of battles once again.

Give SE's Development Team sometime to work things in. I assure you guys they wont disappoint us.

[Upokupo]

I honestly think that SE may be gearing up for a pay-to-play/free-to-play hybrid model. Just trying to connect some dots with the changes being made and doing a tiny bit of research. If reports are accurate of Turbine's revenue increasing on D&D roughly 300% and LOTRO increasing 200%, this would not be out of the realm of possibility.

There seems to be a trend happening. I just think SE is gearing up and looking for a way to increase revenue with FFXI.
This seems like a no-brainer.

[Olor]

if it went all "micro transaction" style I would quit. Do not like.

[Panthera]

It's absurd to think they'd deliberately kill their own product if they're still making enough profit out of it. But I don't think that's what the OP is really saying. To quote Iron Man 2, "It would appear that the same thing that is keeping you alive is also killing you, sir." Obviously, the fatal detriments are an unintentional side-effect.

The problem of FFXI has nothing to do with the limitations of being based on older platform capabilities, as the article suggests. Indeed, the game has gotten more beautiful over time. The real, fundamental problem is the balance of difficulty vs reward. This has been and always will be a problem in specific instances; Vrtra was difficult and dropped nothing wortwhile, while other Wyrms were easier, but had better rewards. The problem is now systemic. You can now do nothing or next to nothing and get rewards as a general principle. AFK leveling can be purchased in Fell Cleave alliances, or is available for free in GoV. The bonuses from GoV are so inflated, it's smarter to fight easier mobs and go for the Bonus exp than to go for the higher exp itself of harder mobs.

What puzzles me about this is that the populace of FFXI is made up largely of veterans, so why did the game get easier rather than harder? No one takes issue with the game being more rewarding or faster in any sense. The problem is that the game became easier and more rewarding at the same time, rather than more difficult and more rewarding simultaneously. The only possible way it could get any worse in terms of reward-to-difficulty ratio would be if armor that's comparable to Homam were available via NPCs or the AH, irony intended.

If FFXI were offline, discussions of this nature would be moot. But the issue is more relevant than ever. While 90-95 are at this point written, 96-99 are as yet unwritten. It really comes down to if players really want to accept whatever is fed to them, or want to be challenged, and challenge SE in return. "That's right, we beat your Absolute Virtue, so you go ahead and update him again." Or do players really want a game with Primeval Brew +2's? You see, the problem may not be Square-Enix at all. The problem is us.

[Runespider]

It's absurd to think they'd deliberately kill their own product if they're still making enough profit out of it. But I don't think that's what the OP is really saying. To quote Iron Man 2, "It would appear that the same thing that is keeping you alive is also killing you, sir." Obviously, the fatal detriments are an unintentional side-effect.

They spent 50-60mill on FFXIV, FFXIV can't get a larger playerbase unless they kill off the competition. FFXI is direct competition for FFXIV subs, most of the returnees are disgruntled FFXIV players.

That's a reason for them killing it off, they are doing it slowly to milk profits off xi still but they are definately doing it. FFXI pays for FFXIV development right now, thats an even bigger signpost as to what's going on. If both games were to be considered seperate XIV would of been killed off by now as a failure, it's still around cause they still think they can get us all to convert by making XI more bland while slowly turning XIV into old XI.

[Panthera]

They spent 50-60mill on FFXIV, FFXIV can't get a larger playerbase unless they kill off the competition. FFXI is direct competition for FFXIV subs, most of the returnees are disgruntled FFXIV players.

Because there's a rule that you can only play one MMO at a time?

[Runespider]

Because there's a rule that you can only play one MMO at a time?

Most people will only ever play 1 mmo at a time, I know some do play multiple but they are in the minority. Not only cause of the cost but the time and effort involved.

[Panthera]

Look, I don't think you can say "they're trying to kill FFXI." It could be said that they're allowing it to die, though. MMOs need the constant care and attention of its developers. They can't even recycle some zones they haven't before, and put tattoos on Mandragoras, to give us more content for 91-95? If we get so much as a mini-expansion, it's quite out of the blue.