Too much to ask?

[Kojo]

Is it too much to ask that certain Abyssea NMs rage? I just lost 25-30 mins of my time watching some NIN slowlo Audumbla, and refuse help from 2 different groups that would rather just have her out of the way that take her drops. The NIN was very RMTesque.

[Urthdigger]

Tell me about it. I know someone who abuses how much PDT avatars can get, and spends hours soloing NMs on SMN. That's really not courteous to any of the other players.

[Nianny]

I don't mind soloers or anything of the sort... but when there's a pile of players waiting it isn't very "respectful" in my opinion. Rage would be one of the options, but I'd like other option if there is any so those players can still solo if they want.

[Lokithor]

Just add multiple ??? for each poppable NM in Abyssea, not just the empy weapon item dropping ones.

[Korpg]

Tell me about it. I know someone who abuses how much PDT avatars can get, and spends hours soloing NMs on SMN. That's really not courteous to any of the other players.

It shouldn't take any SMN longer than 20 minutes to solo anything. If they are taking longer than that, then odds are, they are going to die.

Although I will admit it took me 30 minutes to solo Ovni for my belt that I don't use anymore lol

[Panthera]

This is one of those issues where there is no "right side" and "wrong side." Look at it from the other person's point of view. As it stands atm, they did get there first, and it is on a first come, first served basis. It's their pop, they have claim; any rage timer is arbitrary. When exactly is it mob holding? Even a 20-30 minute rage timer is 20-30 minutes of just standing around waiting for your turn... is that really a solution?

I believe the solution is to allow for multiple instances of the same popped NM. This way, soloists can take as long as they need, and large groups can plow through several pops as fast as they can.

[Zumi]

You have too look at it from the other persons point of view. If they accepted your help you could be a jerk, invite them steal their monster kick them from the party take their drops. Yes this does happen in abyssea, most people really don't care about anyone but themself. But its the way FFXI and abyssea was designed you have to share a zone with a bunch of other people. So why would a soloer want to run the risk of having their mob and drops stolen just to be done a little faster when they are capable of soloing it?

It seems to be the way FFXI is now. People can solo a majority of things, lots of people get multiple accounts so they can duo box empyrean weapons.

[Kojo]

This is one of those issues where there is no "right side" and "wrong side." Look at it from the other person's point of view. As it stands atm, they did get there first, and it is on a first come, first served basis. It's their pop, they have claim; any rage timer is arbitrary. When exactly is it mob holding? Even a 20-30 minute rage timer is 20-30 minutes of just standing around waiting for your turn... is that really a solution?

I believe the solution is to allow for multiple instances of the same popped NM. This way, soloists can take as long as they need, and large groups can plow through several pops as fast as they can.

Wrong, we were there first. We also offered help.

[SpankWustler]

Is it too much to ask that certain Abyssea NMs rage? I just lost 25-30 mins of my time watching some NIN slowlo Audumbla, and refuse help from 2 different groups that would rather just have her out of the way that take her drops. The NIN was very RMTesque.

If it's any consolation, that Ninja will have to live with his own awful equipment/atma/etc. indefinitely but you only lost a half-hour. I don't want to imagine what somebody would have to wear and do to spend 30 minutes soloing Audumbla.

Sure, I can, but I really don't want to!

I could get behind 20 minute rage timers for Abyssea, but I think that's mostly me being malicious towards people who don't know how to put on a pair of pants in either FFXI or real life.

[DebbieGibson]

When are you going to learn that waiting is the core of the gameplay in FFXI?

[Rosina]

Yes it is to much to ask. Mob holding if taking the mob and kiting it. I would just gone to do something else. When it comes to nm the community always had a bad attitude about it. Like fighting over LL when ppl coulda just formed a party and help each other.

[Zatias]

The soloer could have invited people into their party and put quartermaster on his/herself. It's a little rude in my opinion to pop over people and make them wait while you solo it for 20+ minutes.

A rage timer isn't the solution though, people need to fix their attitudes toward one another ;/

[Runespider]

Rage timers go against the extreme easy mode idea behind Abyssea and besides that they tried rage timers on kings and made them so long that they pretty much did nothing, don't bother hoping for this. Even if they did add them they would be so long they would make no difference.

Just need to be nicer to people when offering help, have alternatives or pop faster than them.

[DebbieGibson]

So funny you guys saying there's no way to get screwed. All the guy has to do is pop ukko's fury then /pcmd leave and he has your mob. If I was soloing something for 30 mins I wouldn't invite anyone either.

[noodles355]

You have too look at it from the other persons point of view. If they accepted your help you could be a jerk, invite them steal their monster kick them from the party take their drops. Yes this does happen in abyssea,I dont think I've ever had it happen to me. And I team up with people almost at every available oppertunity. I know a few players who I wouldn't put the idea past, but said players are known already for being dicks.
I was trying to 2box Kuthrei today for all 3 drops, an alliance comes along wanting win for it's members. They inv'd me to ally, we killed it together, and I got all the drops I was after. No drama, no stealing, no "we helped, so we want stuff". People think the worst of a lot ofo things, but to be honest you'd be surprised by how much shit like that really doesn't happen.

[Tagrineth]

I end up doing tons of NM team-ups out in the field. But not everyone is so trusting... or trustworthy.

I would support a 30 minute rage timer on most NMs though.

[Tamoa]

Even if the nin in the OP accepted invite and got screwed - so what, it's Audumbla, and chances are he didn't even proc it, and no TH = quite possibly no drops at all.

If I'm out soloing seal nms on nin, I always accept if people ask me to team up. Better for everybody - and I have yet to be screwed out of drops. Even if that did happen, it's not the end of the world, can just drop party.

[Leonlionheart]

Does it make me a bad person to steal the NM when they wipe and then kill it in 15~45 seconds?

[Economizer]

Does it make me a bad person to steal the NM when they wipe and then kill it in 15~45 seconds?

No, but it does make you a bad person if you steal it if they lose claim for some reason.

With the group I run with, we have rules about this. If their entire group dies and stays dead for longer then a set time, we take the mob. We don't take it if it goes white unless they're entire group is dead. Depending on how polite the group was, we'll often invite them anyways. Although it is pretty rude to not accept help with you are duoing a mob without an empyrean weapon to speed it along.

I don't expect others to be so polite, but waiting until the other group at least wipes is good enough to satisfy my definition of not being a player who steals stuff. Players who steal claims just because it went white for a second go just barely above people who steal BCNM loot, scam other players, or make off with LS loot, and will roast in the MMO underworld when they get theirs.

[Leonlionheart]

I only extend the respect if I don't have an issue with the other group.

Like today, we lost Tunga claim for a moment, but didn't wipe, and though the other group had the chance to easily steal it, they didn't claim (even though it was probably because we would still get the KI). After that when they were losing claim we went off to go kill the other bugs.

However, like with most of Asura, I don't see the same respect. Most of the medium-big LS's are full of douche bags (the little ones are too small to matter, and the big ones generally share mutual respect and understanding), and in the case where I have a poor history with them, or they have recently done something to offend, I will show no mercy. I've had people go as far as to try and pull Ironclads to Rani to try and get us to wipe so they can steal it, in which case I often steal their Rani when they inevitably wipe (brewing Rani is hard for 90% of players it seems).

[Runespider]

Does it make me a bad person to steal the NM when they wipe and then kill it in 15~45 seconds?

Only if you think killing it fast is any indication of skill, not hard to destroy an NM with easy to get gear and atmas. Ukon war is broken really and easy as pish to get and gear, I have 90 Ukon and can mash down NMs fast with it but I'm under no illusion that I'm an awesome player for doing so.

A lot of other people don't have these things but they are still laughably easy to get, on the positive side for OP we are getting 95 soon and that will make people soloing NMs able to kill them a lot faster.

[Leonlionheart]

Only if you think killing it fast is any indication of skill, not hard to destroy an NM with easy to get gear and atmas. Ukon war is broken really and easy as pish to get and gear, I have 90 Ukon and can mash down NMs fast with it but I'm under no illusion that I'm an awesome player for doing so.

A lot of other people don't have these things but they are still laughably easy to get, on the positive side for OP we are getting 95 soon and that will make people soloing NMs able to kill them a lot faster.

buzzzz killlll... Take your lvl 4 mnk, and your lies about thinking you have a 90 ukon and shuv it.

20 bucks says i'm better than you at zerging.

Oh, may I ask what is an indication of skill? Probably using PLD in abyssea.

Edit: Not that I'm saying zerging is an indication of skill, as any joe can do it, but rather trying to say you have a shitty attitude and are raining on my parade. I wouldn't say Ukon90 was laughably easy, as I did it before you could get KI in chests and when several other large LS's were doing it. I think though when I did it, the actual difficulty was on par with any relic. Just didn't waste 3 years of my life, or have to buy gil. Time spent =/= difficulty.

[Economizer]

I only extend the respect if I don't have an issue with the other group.

Oh, it is very often a two way street. People who don't give your group the most basic nod of respect as a fellow player will get screwed eventually. Most of the time, especially if your dealing with force pop NMs, people are very kind however. Well, at least on my server. The jerk players just tend to stick out, and repeat their methods over and over.

[Runespider]

Take your lvl 4 mnk, and your lies about thinking you have a 90 ukon and shuv it.

lol do you think 90 ukon is hard or something? really?? XD They are everywhere, you can level war on a mule, get the best atmas, get full+2 and the other basic bits to maximise it and get a Ukon in a month or less..come on. Don't get an epeen on a game in baby mode.

It took me 2 weeks to get 85 Ukon and I was taking my time (hardest part was tunga but if you know which meds/atmas to use he is a joke), 90 was even easier cause of how laughable Cerb is. So yeah I rained on your parade cause you think your something special when you aren't.

If you think 90 emp is something to show off about to the point of lying about it then you are dilusional to how easy that stuff actually is. If I said I had a mythic or something then yeah but an emp? Who would lie about that to show off.. lol

[DebbieGibson]

I think though when I did it, the actual difficulty was on par with any relic. Just didn't waste 3 years of my life, or have to buy gil. Time spent =/= difficulty.

I would rather it be difficult and only take a week than easy and take a month, wouldn't you?


As to the topic, I take anything that's yellow. I only get to play on the weekends and I can't be wasting my time with courtesy. If it isn't breaking the rules I'm going to do it no matter how asinine others may think I am.

[Inafking]

Is it really to much to ask to make the +1 seals easier to get by increasing drop rates, allowing to choose dom ops / quest rewards, or adding an exchange NPC to eleviate congestion? Or how about making the NMs easier so that people aren't woried about wasting their pops on a n00b group? <sarcasim>Nah, let's make the NMs harder so there is more demand and congestion from people getting their ass kicked.</sarcasim>

[Zatias]

Lets not forget the infamous 7-brew Rani that occurred on our server ;P

And yesterday I watched a new-to-abyssea LS nearly completely wipe to Carabosse. They all ran in and meleed it to find red trigger, and Cyclonic Turmoil, Torrent, then Aeroga 3 said hello. All of the DD died, leaving the NIN tank, a WHM and a BLM alive. The other problems were they didn't have a dispeller, the DRK and BLM weren't stunning -ga, and their WHM had to rest most of the fight due to the spam (assuming no atmas).

I ended up raising most of them just because it was so heartless to vulture a mob off a new group who was learning. On the other hand, a duo fucked up and wiped behind me (the WHM had no rr), so we ended up getting a free Carabosse anyway.

This is how I see it: If the group messes up and the mob idles (like the duo did) then the mob can't depop. It's ours. XD If the group still has some life in them, even if it's weakened tanking, we wont take it.

Charm doesn't apply to the idling part ;P It's not a wipe, so I wouldn't steal it.

I also don't expect many other people share this consideration with me. And don't give me "It was the group's fault for not having the right jobs/strategy", many of them changed after seeing what the NM was about. ;P

[SubDragon]

I'd just ask for more instances tbh.
Dealing with slowloers is by far annoying I usually just find a nm and mpk them if they're being high and mighty about not wanting help or playing JPONRY card. Call me an ass but I'm tired of people wasting my time especially the one slowloer that comes in top of the nm I have a group killing for the past hour and doesn't ask to share pops and takes 45 min to kill. That requires a little mpk action in my book. But I've maybe done that 3-4 times on shiva and all the times I did were JPONRY and the guy tossed in front of us the things we wanted b/c we were NA/EU and popped on top of us again another 45 min wait Hell no you can take a mpk time out.

[Zatias]

You shouldn't be broadcasting that you break the ToS in SE's official forums. XD

Though I somewhat agree, I wouldn't do the same.

[Leonlionheart]

lol do you think 90 ukon is hard or something? really?? XD They are everywhere, you can level war on a mule, get the best atmas, get full+2 and the other basic bits to maximise it and get a Ukon in a month or less..come on. Don't get an epeen on a game in baby mode.

It took me 2 weeks to get 85 Ukon and I was taking my time (hardest part was tunga but if you know which meds/atmas to use he is a joke), 90 was even easier cause of how laughable Cerb is. So yeah I rained on your parade cause you think your something special when you aren't.

If you think 90 emp is something to show off about to the point of lying about it then you are dilusional to how easy that stuff actually is. If I said I had a mythic or something then yeah but an emp? Who would lie about that to show off.. lol

Don't ask me, you're the level 4 monk lying about having an emp. They are minimum level 80.

Honestly though, Relics aren't hard. Mythics aren't necessarily hard either. They just take soooo f***ing long. I don't know why so much of the playerbase thinks that time spent somehow means ITS HARD GUYS FFFFF. Difficulty is a word used to describe a feat that is hard to accomplish, deal with, or understand. It might mean dedication, but not difficult.

Either way it took me 3 grueling weeks of camping Adze and Minhocao against some of Asura's biggest LS's to get 85 Ukon, then like 2 days to get it to 90.

Anyway, I don't think that getting an Ukon was a great accomplishment of mine, but I've seen other people use it and it's like they might as well be using Raging Rush with a Byakko's Axe they are so bad.

[Mirage]

Lol, runespider is as much a lv4 mnk as I am a lv1 war

[Winrie]

It took me 2 weeks to get 85 Ukon and I was taking my time (hardest part was tunga but if you know which meds/atmas to use he is a joke), 90 was even easier cause of how laughable Cerb is. So yeah I rained on your parade cause you think your something special when you aren't.

Took my LS 2 weekend sessions to do that from ground zero, 4 hours each day so 12 hours in total for an 85 ukon, if it's so easy why'd it take you so long and why are you high horsing on this forum? Silence please no one wants to listen to it. By the way how the hell do you find tunga hard?


I'd just ask for more instances tbh.
Dealing with slowloers is by far annoying I usually just find a nm and mpk them if they're being high and mighty about not wanting help or playing JPONRY card. Call me an ass but I'm tired of people wasting my time especially the one slowloer that comes in top of the nm I have a group killing for the past hour and doesn't ask to share pops and takes 45 min to kill. That requires a little mpk action in my book. But I've maybe done that 3-4 times on shiva and all the times I did were JPONRY and the guy tossed in front of us the things we wanted b/c we were NA/EU and popped on top of us again another 45 min wait Hell no you can take a mpk time out.

Come to valefor youll find a lot of bait to mpk, but seriously you are an ass for blocking a soloist from playing the game.


This is how I see it: If the group messes up and the mob idles (like the duo did) then the mob can't depop. It's ours. XD If the group still has some life in them, even if it's weakened tanking, we wont take it


I also don't expect many other people share this consideration with me. And don't give me "It was the group's fault for not having the right jobs/strategy", many of them changed after seeing what the NM was about. ;P

It is the groups fault, and honestly if they have to hold to job change someone in leadership messed up in not even reading about the monster before leading their people into a fight. And im sorry but some groups can be ridiculously set up and fail horribly, and when they do, what happens most often? Apoc zombieing, not a problem on empy mob ??? but its ridiculous on other mobs in abyssea you may be targeting.

People are going to solo and there really is nothing that can be done about it, didnt SE already say that there can only be so many npc up in a zone at once due to ps2 limits? But thats besides the point, everyone pays their subs, they can play the game how they wish. You can moan, mpk, scream all you wish it will never change. Solos have just as much right to kill the mobs in whatever fashion they wish just as much as you do with your party, pug, dual box, ect. Dont like it then make a trade macro for items and hope you win lol.

[Leonlionheart]

Lol, runespider is as much a lv4 mnk as I am a lv1 war

As far as I can tell, you are a lv1 war.

[Runespider]

Took my LS 2 weekend sessions to do that from ground zero, 4 hours each day so 12 hours in total for an 85 ukon, if it's so easy why'd it take you so long and why are you high horsing on this forum? Silence please no one wants to listen to it. By the way how the hell do you find tunga hard?

I said in the post you partially quoted I was taking my time and still did the first 2 trials in 2 weeks, 85-90 I did in 2 days. As for Tunga, I said it was the hardest NM of the entire weapons trials but it was still laughable.

The reply was to a guy trying to show off about gear that is easy to get, he was trying to get on a high horse not me. I was deflating his over inflated ego cause he has a broken weapon loads of other people have and that isnt even considered an accomplishment in todays FFXI.

[Zatias]

It is the groups fault, and honestly if they have to hold to job change <stuff>



They didn't hold it. They killed it once then changed their jobs.

Also not everyone has access to a PC to read strategies.